gaaboard.com

As expected, same team as the last day:

              Gary Connaughton
Mark McCallon, Kieran Gavin, Kevin Maguire
    Doron Harte, Paul Sharry, John Gaffey
            David Duffy, John Heslin
Kieran Martin, Callum McCormack, James Dolan
    Ger Egan, Denis Glennon, Dessie Dolan

Needless to say have to hit the ground running Saturday evening as Jim Gavin will look to hurt us early as he did in the U21 match last year. In that match Dublin had 1-3 on the board before we knew the game was under way. A similar start for us will be fatal.

That said there is no pressure on us whatsoever. Dublin have every possible advantage going in to this and the bookies have the spread at 7 points so no excuse for not putting in a performance. Looking forward to it, been a good few years since we were really competitive in Leinster.

Really looking forward to this one, didn't make one championship game last year. 7 point spread seems a lot, bookies are rarely wrong. A day out in Croker, a few pints before hand and a few afterwards. Hopefully I'm not walking down Clonliffe Road getting dogs abuse from the Dubs Saturday evening. The lads I play foootball with on Monday (Jude's lads) were confident on Monday night.

Well Garda Glennon doesnt fear the dubs at all so with his knee socks pulled up high and mighty ye should keep it close

C'mon Heffo.

D'ya reckon the Dubs have a chance at all?

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
C'mon Heffo.

D'ya reckon the Dubs have a chance at all?

Best midfielder in the country in Heslin and a class act up front getting all the ball Heslin wins, in D Dolan.

Going to be tight.

I dont think Heslin is as good yet as u may think, he will be in the long run but against MD Mac, he could struggle

Hope Westmeath don't go into this with an attitude of having Nothing to lose. First of all there is a game to be lost and secondly if you lose and you lose narrowly to a decent side you go better into the Qualifiers. A mauling after all the good work this year could be their undoing for the season!

Quote from: heffo on May 29, 2013, 07:49:43 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
C'mon Heffo.

D'ya reckon the Dubs have a chance at all?

Best midfielder in the country in Heslin and a class act up front getting all the ball Heslin wins, in D Dolan.

Going to be tight.

What odds will you give me?

Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2013, 08:42:11 PM
Hope Westmeath don't go into this with an attitude of having Nothing to lose. First of all there is a game to be lost and secondly if you lose and you lose narrowly to a decent side you go better into the Qualifiers. A mauling after all the good work this year could be their undoing for the season!

Wexford got mauled by Dublin in 2008 and ended up having a longer championship than them. Whatever the margin of defeat in this game Westmeath should do well in qualifiers.

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 08:46:24 PM

Quote from: heffo on May 29, 2013, 07:49:43 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
C'mon Heffo.

D'ya reckon the Dubs have a chance at all?

Best midfielder in the country in Heslin and a class act up front getting all the ball Heslin wins, in D Dolan.

Going to be tight.

What odds will you give me?

On who?

Quote from: heffo on May 29, 2013, 09:49:40 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 08:46:24 PM

Quote from: heffo on May 29, 2013, 07:49:43 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
C'mon Heffo.

D'ya reckon the Dubs have a chance at all?

Best midfielder in the country in Heslin and a class act up front getting all the ball Heslin wins, in D Dolan.

Going to be tight.

What odds will you give me?

On who?

Can I take the Dubs? You can have Westmeath.'Tight' game should be close to evens. What'll you offer me?

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on May 29, 2013, 09:19:21 AM
As expected, same team as the last day:

              Gary Connaughton
Mark McCallon, Kieran Gavin, Kevin Maguire
    Doron Harte, Paul Sharry, John Gaffey
            David Duffy, John Heslin
Kieran Martin, Callum McCormack, James Dolan
    Ger Egan, Denis Glennon, Dessie Dolan

Needless to say have to hit the ground running Saturday evening as Jim Gavin will look to hurt us early as he did in the U21 match last year. In that match Dublin had 1-3 on the board before we knew the game was under way. A similar start for us will be fatal.

That said there is no pressure on us whatsoever. Dublin have every possible advantage going in to this and the bookies have the spread at 7 points so no excuse for not putting in a performance. Looking forward to it, been a good few years since we were really competitive in Leinster.

Tough game in prospect for us.

Westmeath are one of the form teams in the country.

I'm expecting a very tough match. Lot of good footballers on the westmeath team and they seem to have a full whack for once.

Heslin is a hell of a prospect. focus is his problem or has been. But we aren't great at midfield and it could an area we will struggle

Dublin by 1 or 2

based on

a Westmeath's superior midfield
b them closing down the short kickout options
c Dublin usually not firing on full throttle until later rounds
d few injuries for Dubs

Interesting to see how we do on Saturday. Westmeath have had a great start to the year and will surely give a good account of themselves. Can Dublin continue the good form shown in patches during the league? Think we should shade a close game

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 10:42:28 PM

Quote from: heffo on May 29, 2013, 09:49:40 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 08:46:24 PM

Quote from: heffo on May 29, 2013, 07:49:43 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 29, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
C'mon Heffo.

D'ya reckon the Dubs have a chance at all?

Best midfielder in the country in Heslin and a class act up front getting all the ball Heslin wins, in D Dolan.

Going to be tight.

What odds will you give me?

On who?

Can I take the Dubs? You can have Westmeath.'Tight' game should be close to evens. What'll you offer me?

We'll make it interesting, a Euro?

I think all indications are that Westmeath are going to park the bus, keep it tight and live on scraps.

With weaknesses in Dublin's midfield I'd nearly go for a shootout with them - as someone else said it's all the same to be beaten by ten as it is by one

A lot of very cautious Dublin men on here ??? ??? ???

Quote from: neilthemac on May 29, 2013, 11:19:05 PM
Dublin by 1 or 2

based on

a Westmeath's superior midfield Dublin are the ones with a 2011 All Star in midfield
b them closing down the short kickout options
c Dublin usually not firing on full throttle until later rounds Last year Dublin hammered Louth (who beat us) out the gate in the first round. Jim Galvin teams also have the tradition of not taking the foot off the pedal as was seen up in Donegal when they had nothing to play for.
d few injuries for Dubs Only Kevin McMenamin to the best of my knowledge and he wouldn't be starting anyway. Can you count Alan Brogan at this stage?

Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2013, 08:42:11 PM
Hope Westmeath don't go into this with an attitude of having Nothing to lose. First of all there is a game to be lost and secondly if you lose and you lose narrowly to a decent side you go better into the Qualifiers. A mauling after all the good work this year could be their undoing for the season!

I agree with most of that. Like any match they'll be going in to win but all the expectation and pressure is on the Dubs. They played some scintillating football during the league and the neutrals eyes are being turned by them. The bookies have us completely written off and everything is stacked against us. We need a very strong referee to stand a chance. We have nothing to lose but shouldn't go in with that attitude.

Haven't saw WM for a good while?
Do they play a defensive system?

If they don't or only pull one man back into defence I think Dublin will tear ye to shreds.
On the other hand during the league they were quite open at the back themselves so it could be a high scoring affair.

Obviously with my Westmeath connections I'll be roaring on the Maroon so looking forward to this, just want to see a good game of football though. Dublin by 5 for me.

Weather forecast is good for Saturday, might get 40K there for the two games.

A bit nervous about the game. We could have about 5 lads making their first championship start, so will be interesting to see how they react. Also be interesting to see how Gavin sets us up. We played pretty much the same attacking style thoughout the league, but I'd be fairly sure that Gavin does have a Plan B up his sleeve to release at some stage during the championship.   

Westmeath clearly did really well to win promotion so the form guide would say they're the third best team in Leinster, thus they deserve plenty of respect.

Hopefully a good crowd will turn up. As usual no advertising of it as a possible bank holiday activity. There'll be plenty of people (who we often disparagingly call fairweather fans) who won't even know its on.

Quote from: heffo on May 30, 2013, 08:52:37 AM
We'll make it interesting, a Euro?

Sound.

Dubs win +€1 for me.
Westmeath win +€1 for you.

Draw - Double or quits?

Are ye Dubs happy with the all out attack style or would ye rather see some sort of defensive system in place?

I suppose the temptation is to keep attacking against the so called level 2/3 teams but then will they be able to switch over when they meet a so called big gun?

Quote from: Fuzzman on May 30, 2013, 11:39:46 AM
Are ye Dubs happy with the all out attack style or would ye rather see some sort of defensive system in place?

I suppose the temptation is to keep attacking against the so called level 2/3 teams but then will they be able to switch over when they meet a so called big gun?

Happy watching nice style of football - concerned about how it'll work against the top teams

I think W/Meath will score an early goal and we will eventually claw it back to get a draw or 1/2 pt win on the evening...........................great game in prospect

Quote from: muppet on May 30, 2013, 11:34:46 AM

Quote from: heffo on May 30, 2013, 08:52:37 AM
We'll make it interesting, a Euro?

Sound.

Dubs win +€1 for me.
Westmeath win +€1 for you.

Draw - Double or quits?

No post-dated or 3rd party cheques though

Quote from: Fuzzman on May 30, 2013, 11:39:46 AM
Are ye Dubs happy with the all out attack style or would ye rather see some sort of defensive system in place?

I suppose the temptation is to keep attacking against the so called level 2/3 teams but then will they be able to switch over when they meet a so called big gun?

Only 1 team conceeded less than us in the league (Donegal) and that was only 1 point less so we can't be that bad defensively and that was missing Cluxton, ROC, McCarthy, Nolan etc for most of the league....

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on May 30, 2013, 12:33:33 PM

Quote from: Fuzzman on May 30, 2013, 11:39:46 AM
Are ye Dubs happy with the all out attack style or would ye rather see some sort of defensive system in place?

I suppose the temptation is to keep attacking against the so called level 2/3 teams but then will they be able to switch over when they meet a so called big gun?

Only 1 team conceeded less than us in the league (Donegal) and that was only 1 point less so we can't be that bad defensively and that was missing Cluxton, ROC, McCarthy, Nolan etc for most of the league....

Looked very good in the league & some serious players to come back, mind you the latter stages of the championship it's more about testicular fortitude than football ability.
A favourite insult from Mick O'Dwyer used to be that such & such a county were "great in the league".
Joint favourites at 3/1 with Donegal & the contrast in styles would make for a great game.

QuoteHappy watching nice style of football - concerned about how it'll work against the top teams

+1

I'd be slightly concerned that Dublin have not employed a slightly more defensive formation during play , with the emphasis on attacking quickly and utilizing their young extremely athletic and good ball skilled players in counter attack.
I'd agree that not doing this will cause problems for themselves against the strongest teams.

Westmeath are a good side but really shouldn't be close at the end of the march. With good weather it should be Dublin by around 10 points.

Westmeath have the upper hand in midfield. Heslin is a good player but the few times I've seen big Duffy , he has impressed me. Goes out of the game a bit but I think he is good. Not rated or liked by a good few of the Westmeath contingent ive spoken to in the past.
I'd like him on my squad if I was the manager!

I hope not, but I expect two executions in croker this weekend.

Quote from: heffo on May 30, 2013, 12:21:59 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 30, 2013, 11:34:46 AM

Quote from: heffo on May 30, 2013, 08:52:37 AM
We'll make it interesting, a Euro?

Sound.

Dubs win +€1 for me.
Westmeath win +€1 for you.

Draw - Double or quits?

No post-dated or 3rd party cheques though

Bitcoin?

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on May 30, 2013, 12:33:33 PM

Quote from: Fuzzman on May 30, 2013, 11:39:46 AM
Are ye Dubs happy with the all out attack style or would ye rather see some sort of defensive system in place?

I suppose the temptation is to keep attacking against the so called level 2/3 teams but then will they be able to switch over when they meet a so called big gun?

Only 1 team conceeded less than us in the league (Donegal) and that was only 1 point less so we can't be that bad defensively and that was missing Cluxton, ROC, McCarthy, Nolan etc for most of the league....

I don't give any credence to the statement we were missing loads of players from our defence during the league.

Cluxton only missed 2 games and ROC 3 of the 7 regular NFL games. Although no doubt O'Carroll was a loss for the knockout stages.

Barring the injury to ROC, Gavin's first choice defence played pretty much throughout the nine games of the league - Cluxton (7),  O'Brien(9)-ROC(4)-Cooper(8 ), McCaffrey(9)-Brennan(8 )-Daly(9). Injuries permitting that's going to be his defence for championship, with the exception that McCarthy could well force his way in.  McMahon and Fitzsimons will only be subs. Nolan's been struggling for fitness due to illness and probably won't feature at all, he may even have dropped off the panel given he was back playing club football last night.

Individually the lads who've played have all done well, but there's no doubt there have been times when our attacking system has left a sea of space for opposition forwards to work in. The league final being the prime example and I thought we were lucky that Tyrone did not exploit that more.

My own view (with nothing to back it up other than hunch) is that eventually Gavin will move to picking one of his more mobile defenders (one of O'Sullivan, McCarthy, Cooper, McMahon) at wing forward where they'll play as an extra midfielder or a sweeper behind the midfield, and who will provide cover when our actual defenders make their surging runs forward.

Personally would be alot more comfortable with Cian O'Sullivan in the defence. O'Carroll is our rock in defence and is imvho the one player we cannot do without under any circumstances.

Kevin Nolan (if fit) should also be in there.

Will be interesting to see how Westmeath do as the trend this season seems to indicate the gulf between Divs 1 and 2 is widening.

Midfield (once again) is our achilles heel. Foraging like demons for the breaking ball will only get you so far if your midfield can't catch its fair share of kickouts.

This sure looks like a tasty encounter for the Dubs.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLi1OK9CUAAiBNq.jpg:large)

That looks to be Dublin full out, strong looking team, plus got the sub bench to match

Well that's the Dubs going for the jugular and if that's an indication of Gavin's thought process he is hanging his hat on the all out attack option. I hope it works out for him this year, it will be great for football if a team who back themselves to outshoot opponents wins Sam.

Happy with that team - I think we'll see 11/12 of that team being first choice, Alan Brogan to come in when fit and 3/4 changes depending on the opposition

Quote from: Zulu on May 30, 2013, 11:25:32 PM
Well that's the Dubs going for the jugular and if that's an indication of Gavin's thought process he is hanging his hat on the all out attack option. I hope it works out for him this year, it will be great for football if a team who back themselves to outshoot opponents wins Sam.

It would be great alright.

But if they ever meet Donegal that could change.

Quote from: heffo on May 31, 2013, 09:18:40 AM
Happy with that team - I think we'll see 11/12 of that team being first choice, Alan Brogan to come in when fit and 3/4 changes depending on the opposition

Someone could always get injured or someone could get an unexpected roasting, but otherwise I think Jim will stick with 13 or 14 of these lads in his starting line-up throughout.

Of course if we get beaten in Leinster, there could be plenty of changes.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 30, 2013, 02:09:30 PM
I'd be slightly concerned that Dublin have not employed a slightly more defensive formation during play , with the emphasis on attacking quickly and utilizing their young extremely athletic and good ball skilled players in counter attack.
I'd agree that not doing this will cause problems for themselves against the strongest teams.

Westmeath are a good side but really shouldn't be close at the end of the march. With good weather it should be Dublin by around 10 points.

Westmeath have the upper hand in midfield. Heslin is a good player but the few times I've seen big Duffy , he has impressed me. Goes out of the game a bit but I think he is good. Not rated or liked by a good few of the Westmeath contingent ive spoken to in the past.
I'd like him on my squad if I was the manager!

I hope not, but I expect two executions in croker this weekend.

Duff has taken a bit of stick in the past alright but has been going well this year, seems to have taken it upon himself to provide a bit of a leadership role what with all the young lads on the team.

Very strong Dublin team, surprised they are starting with Kilkenny instead of Cullen, some task to keep all that shower quiet. Any Dubs I've been speaking to are very confident of a victory of 5+ points. The ones on here are either the exception or speaking out of both sides of their mouths  :P

If I was Pat I'd try to drag O'Carroll out of there and target the débutantes in the corners early.

Oh, and get bodies back. Lots of them.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on May 31, 2013, 10:52:25 AM
If I was Pat I'd try to drag O'Carroll out of there and target the débutantes in the corners early.

Oh, and get bodies back. Lots of them.

Yeah, not sure we'd fall for that one though. Plan will be to keep O'Carroll on the edge of the square and let Daly follow any rambler. Cooper to pick up Dessie I'd guess, which will be a big challenge for the young lad.

Quote from: orangeman on May 31, 2013, 09:27:52 AM

Quote from: Zulu on May 30, 2013, 11:25:32 PM
Well that's the Dubs going for the jugular and if that's an indication of Gavin's thought process he is hanging his hat on the all out attack option. I hope it works out for him this year, it will be great for football if a team who back themselves to outshoot opponents wins Sam.

It would be great alright.

But if they ever meet Donegal that could change.

Who beat them last year?

If I was a Dublin fan my main worry this summer would be the persistence with Connolly. A brilliant scorer when he catches fire but he is mad enough to cost them an All-Ireland when we get to the high-pressure games in August and September. I'd also have similar concerns about Ger Brennan, but not to the same degree.

Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on May 31, 2013, 02:04:38 PM
If I was a Dublin fan my main worry this summer would be the persistence with Connolly. A brilliant scorer when he catches fire but he is mad enough to cost them an All-Ireland when we get to the high-pressure games in August and September. I'd also have similar concerns about Ger Brennan, but not to the same degree.

Connolly's madness has never cost us a game, but his brilliance has won us a good few, so I think he's worth the risk.

Jihad Ger has almost cost us a couple of big games in the past, but has been bailed out by teammates. But I think he's copped on at this stage and is in very good form, so again I think its a no brainer that he's our centre half back

Quote from: Hound on May 31, 2013, 03:29:43 PM

Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on May 31, 2013, 02:04:38 PM
If I was a Dublin fan my main worry this summer would be the persistence with Connolly. A brilliant scorer when he catches fire but he is mad enough to cost them an All-Ireland when we get to the high-pressure games in August and September. I'd also have similar concerns about Ger Brennan, but not to the same degree.

Connolly's madness has never cost us a game, but his brilliance has won us a good few, so I think he's worth the risk.

Jihad Ger has almost cost us a couple of big games in the past, but has been bailed out by teammates. But I think he's copped on at this stage and is in very good form, so again I think its a no brainer that he's our centre half back

He was targetted in every league game this year (especially the Kildare game) where Bolton charged into him after the whistle every time he won a free, trying to get a response and kept the head. He'll be fine.

No sign of Kevin "Chomper" O'Brien? Is he on the subs bench? ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 01, 2013, 01:00:10 PM
No sign of Kevin "Chomper" O'Brien? Is he on the subs bench? ;D ;D ;D

Fresh from being exonerated fully from Donegals parlour games he now finds himself injured

O'Brien named on the bench, niggle during the week probably cost him his starting jersey.

Good to see Cormac Costello on the bench. Gavin obviously has some trust in him despite him being injured throughout the league.

Supple, Bastick, Carty, Cullen, Devereux, Fitzsimons, McMahon, O'Gara and Rock are the other Dubs subs named

Quote from: Hound on June 01, 2013, 05:42:36 PM
O'Brien named on the bench, niggle during the week probably cost him his starting jersey.

Good to see Cormac Costello on the bench. Gavin obviously has some trust in him despite him being injured throughout the league.

Supple, Bastick, Carty, Cullen, Devereux, Fitzsimons, McMahon, O'Gara and Rock are the other Dubs subs named

That's a subs bench and a half. Scary the options Dublin have.

Dub scum booing the free taker as usual! Disgraceful

Will wmeath score??

Westmeath far to loose at the back. Dublin will win this by a big margin if it continues like this.

(http://www.proshieldsafetysigns.co.uk/signs/57831_signs.jpg)

After 24 minutes Westmeath finally score.

Serious gulf in class between Div 2 and Div 1 if this match is anything to go by.

The Dubs have such a high cruising speed that they are creating space everywhere without even seeming to exert themselves. It's like watching horses used to running at Punchestown trying to catch horses used to running at Epsom.

Come on mullingar!!!!

Dublin should be leading by more at half time Westmeath still stuck in league mode.

WH stinking out the joint. Dubs in 2nd gear. f**k me but these 456 handpasses and then kicking it to a Dub is very annoying. Dubs could tog in and they'd still win

Is anyone going to tell me that Westmeath are a Div 1 team in full championship mode????????

have westmeath management the balls and brains to change this??? i refuse to believe that westmeath are this weak

Are people genuinely surprised?
They never had a hope.

Looks like another one-sided game to add to a rapidly growing list so far. The top 4 or 5 sides in the country are just miles ahead of everyone else at the moment.

A very depressing match to watch. Almost no team wants a piece of Dublin and Westmeath looked a beaten docket after one minute.

These are first round games.
You're going to get a few hammerings.

I would put the lateral handpassing down to Dublins immense workrate in their half forward line moreso than Westmeaths inability to break the line.
Looks like men against boys at present.

You know why crap like this is produced now in the first round of the championship? Because of the qualifiers.

Since the introduction of the back door system, teams know it doesn't matter if they face the best team in the province (and in this case the country) in the first round and lose. Sure they'll get another crack so why bother? It's not as if many care about provincial championships anymore anyway. It's genuinely sad.

Years ago you didn't get such a lack of passion. Yes, there has always been games with a huge gulf in class like this one, but before the back door, you at least had the lesser teams put their heart and soul into it.

They mightn't have won, or even got close by the 70th minute, but at least it was interesting for the majority of the game.

Now we get filth like this - teams with a pathetic attitude (which in turn effects the better team's performance and as a result the game suffers) - on a regular basis.

The top teams are pushing so far ahead it's scary.

Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2013, 07:47:05 PM
Are people genuinely surprised?
They never had a hope.

I can see Heffo in Croker shaking his head in disbelief.

It would be great to see Dublin play a game or 2 outside Croker, no doubt they would probably beat Westmeath in Mullinagr but it would be a bit fair on other teams if they played a game elsewhere. They Play all their league games in Croke Park, not even a massive crowd a the game today - Mullingar would be well able to hold that crowd.

A good size crowd in Mullingar would have a better buzz then a half empty Croker.

Im convinced in games like this, the lesser side's management are aiming not to take a hammering and hoping for no injuries in order to protect some confidence going into the qualifiers.

Still love this sport but despite the drastic financial improvement over the last 20 years - thanks largely to so many games these days - Gaelic football as a viewing spectacle has gone so far backwards in the same time span it's untrue.

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 07:50:39 PM
You know why crap like this is produced now in the first round of the championship? Because of the qualifiers.

Since the introduction of the back door system, teams know it doesn't matter if they face the best team in the province (and in this case the country) in the first round and lose. Sure they'll get another crack so why bother? It's not as if many care about provincial championships anymore anyway. It's genuinely sad.

Years ago you didn't get such a lack of passion. Yes, there has always been games with a huge gulf in class like this one, but before the back door, you at least had the lesser teams put their heart and soul into it.

They mightn't have won, or even got close by the 70th minute, but at least it was interesting for the majority of the game.

Now we get filth like this - teams with a pathetic attitude (which in turn effects the better team's performance and as a result the game suffers) - on a regular basis.

Hardly the Qualifiers' fault that Westmeath played containment football from the first minute.

You have a problem with the AIQs, fine. Just don't use it as a catch-all for every bad performance we see.

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 07:50:39 PM
You know why crap like this is produced now in the first round of the championship? Because of the qualifiers.

Since the introduction of the back door system, teams know it doesn't matter if they face the best team in the province (and in this case the country) in the first round and lose. Sure they'll get another crack so why bother? It's not as if many care about provincial championships anymore anyway. It's genuinely sad.

Years ago you didn't get such a lack of passion. Yes, there has always been games with a huge gulf in class like this one, but before the back door, you at least had the lesser teams put their heart and soul into it.

They mightn't have won, or even got close by the 70th minute, but at least it was interesting for the majority of the game.

Now we get filth like this - teams with a pathetic attitude (which in turn effects the better team's performance and as a result the game suffers) - on a regular basis.

Yeah, things were way better when weaker teams trained all winter for one game in the summer and then they were gone.
The championship isn't just about the teams that can ultimately win it.
The qualifiers have thrown up some great games and some big shocks in recent years.
They provide great entertainment and excitement and keep the interest levels up for counties who have no realistic chance of silverware.

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 07:59:15 PM
Im convinced in games like this, the lesser side's management are aiming not to take a hammering and hoping for no injuries in order to protect some confidence going into the qualifiers.

Still love this sport but despite the drastic financial improvement over the last 20 years - thanks largely to so many games these days - Gaelic football as a viewing spectacle has gone so far backwards in the same time span it's untrue.

Don't be a plonker Rodney.

Your suggestion, while a logical one and actually a necessary one for sporting fairness and integrity, could only be brought about by (a) the GAA opting to lose money and (b) the GAA not going along with the wishes of Dublin's County Board.

Neither will ever happen.

Collins
Its nonsense to say Westmeath aren't trying because of the backdoor. They're doing their best against a superior team. Perhaps their tactics could be better, but Leinster is more important to Westmeath than the qualifiers.

As rodney, I think it was said, I think the Leinster semis as a double bill in Croker makes sense, but the quarter finals should generally be held in provincial venues.

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 08:02:11 PM

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 07:59:15 PM
Im convinced in games like this, the lesser side's management are aiming not to take a hammering and hoping for no injuries in order to protect some confidence going into the qualifiers.

Still love this sport but despite the drastic financial improvement over the last 20 years - thanks largely to so many games these days - Gaelic football as a viewing spectacle has gone so far backwards in the same time span it's untrue.

Don't be a plonker Rodney.

Your suggestion, while a logical one and actually a necessary one for sporting fairness and integrity, could only be brought about by (a) the GAA opting to lose money and (b) the GAA not going along with the wishes of Dublin's County Board.

Neither will ever happen.

Replying to your own post :) It will never happen but a great thought. It's all geared towards suiting the Dubs. But as long as they are sorting out the Gaa, why would they care about the rest

Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2013, 08:01:38 PM

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 07:50:39 PM
You know why crap like this is produced now in the first round of the championship? Because of the qualifiers.

Since the introduction of the back door system, teams know it doesn't matter if they face the best team in the province (and in this case the country) in the first round and lose. Sure they'll get another crack so why bother? It's not as if many care about provincial championships anymore anyway. It's genuinely sad.

Years ago you didn't get such a lack of passion. Yes, there has always been games with a huge gulf in class like this one, but before the back door, you at least had the lesser teams put their heart and soul into it.

They mightn't have won, or even got close by the 70th minute, but at least it was interesting for the majority of the game.

Now we get filth like this - teams with a pathetic attitude (which in turn effects the better team's performance and as a result the game suffers) - on a regular basis.

Yeah, things were way better when weaker teams trained all winter for one game in the summer and then they were gone.
The championship isn't just about the teams that can ultimately win it.
The qualifiers have thrown up some great games and some big shocks in recent years.
They provide great entertainment and excitement and keep the interest levels up for counties who have no realistic chance of silverware.

This was what the GAA spouted when they brought the qualifiers in. That the poor wee teams would train all year and only get one game. (Which is, of course, bullshit given the amount of pre season competitions and league games these days) It was said that the back door system gives the small counties a greater chance of success.

WRONG.

Before the back door, many many "big" teams trained all year and only got one game. Now if they are caught on the hop, they have a chance to recover.

In the end the qualifiers only serves to increase the disparity between the big counties and the lesser ones. Which, by the way, we have seen come to fruition in the last 10 years. Is it any wonder the big counties are getting better the smaller ones are getting worse?

We used to be treated to some epic games in the first round and some major shocks. Now, when a major shock happens, sure so what really? Waterford beat Kerry? Well Kerry will just come through the back door and beat them if they play again. It doesn't reward the smaller team as much as the old system did.

It's introduction was nothing to do with fair play or given the weaker teams another chance. It was to do with one thing and one thing alone - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

PS: It's not just this game, but others too. And this isn't about Westmeath's tactics or the fact they are much inferior. As I said, a gulf in class between sides is something that's always been there at this stage of the championship. My issue is with the attitude of Westmeath and other sides of their ilk. No hunger. No desire. No nastiness. No nothing.

Dubs are better. Question answered. Move on....

As someone from one of the weakest counties in Ireland I'm delighted there is a competition format, flawed as it is, that helps the cream rise to the top. That IS what a competition format should do. Your argument seems to be based on a desire to be entertained whereas I would feel the competition format should be about fairness and the players. We've had some great championships recently and some great stories, what in the name of Jaysus do people want??

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 08:11:45 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2013, 08:01:38 PM

Quote from: Collins on June 01, 2013, 07:50:39 PM
You know why crap like this is produced now in the first round of the championship? Because of the qualifiers.

Since the introduction of the back door system, teams know it doesn't matter if they face the best team in the province (and in this case the country) in the first round and lose. Sure they'll get another crack so why bother? It's not as if many care about provincial championships anymore anyway. It's genuinely sad.

Years ago you didn't get such a lack of passion. Yes, there has always been games with a huge gulf in class like this one, but before the back door, you at least had the lesser teams put their heart and soul into it.

They mightn't have won, or even got close by the 70th minute, but at least it was interesting for the majority of the game.

Now we get filth like this - teams with a pathetic attitude (which in turn effects the better team's performance and as a result the game suffers) - on a regular basis.

Yeah, things were way better when weaker teams trained all winter for one game in the summer and then they were gone.
The championship isn't just about the teams that can ultimately win it.
The qualifiers have thrown up some great games and some big shocks in recent years.
They provide great entertainment and excitement and keep the interest levels up for counties who have no realistic chance of silverware.

This was what the GAA spouted when they brought the qualifiers in. That the poor wee teams would train all year and only get one game. (Which is, of course, bullshit given the amount of pre season competitions and league games these days) It was said that the back door system gives the small counties a greater chance of success.

WRONG.

Before the back door, many many "big" teams trained all year and only got one game. Now if they are caught on the hop, they have a chance to recover.

In the end the qualifiers only serves to increase the disparity between the big counties and the lesser ones. Which, by the way, we have seen come to fruition in the last 10 years. Is it any wonder the big counties are getting better the smaller ones are getting worse?

We used to be treated to some epic games in the first round and some major shocks. Now, when a major shock happens, sure so what really? Waterford beat Kerry? Well Kerry will just come through the back door and beat them if they play again. It doesn't reward the smaller team as much as the old system did.

It's introduction was nothing to do with fair play or given the weaker teams another chance. It was to do with one thing and one thing alone - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

PS: It's not just this game, but others too. And this isn't about Westmeath's tactics or the fact they are much inferior. As I said, a gulf in class between sides is something that's always been there at this stage of the championship. My issue is with the attitude of Westmeath and other sides of their ilk. No hunger. No desire. No nastiness. No nothing.

After reading this, I really can't be bothered debating the issue any further.

Quote from: Hound on June 01, 2013, 08:06:13 PM
They're doing their best against a superior team. Perhaps their tactics could be better, but Leinster is more important to Westmeath than the qualifiers.

Dublin are winning at ease in second gear. Westmeath can perform better than today and in fairness they got close to beating Kerry in the qualifiers last year and that was against another superior team.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 01, 2013, 08:29:57 PM

Quote from: Hound on June 01, 2013, 08:06:13 PM
They're doing their best against a superior team. Perhaps their tactics could be better, but Leinster is more important to Westmeath than the qualifiers.

Dublin are winning at ease in second gear. Westmeath can perform better than today and in fairness they got close to beating Kerry in the qualifiers last year and that was against another superior team.

In Mullingar nonetheless, Dessie Dolan was a serious loss today. But the Dubs were always going to win.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 01, 2013, 08:29:57 PM

Quote from: Hound on June 01, 2013, 08:06:13 PM
They're doing their best against a superior team. Perhaps their tactics could be better, but Leinster is more important to Westmeath than the qualifiers.

Dublin are winning at ease in second gear. Westmeath can perform better than today and in fairness they got close to beating Kerry in the qualifiers last year and that was against another superior team.

That's another thing.
Teams grow into the qualifiers.
They move out of the big stadiums into smaller grounds with better atmosphere, against opposition they actually have a chance of beating.
Would Westmeath beat Dublin, Cork, Kerry, Donegal, Tyrone or Mayo?
No, but they've no reason to fear anyone else.

Sack Pat Flanagan NOW!!!!




Spillane has been very good tonight.

Quote from: Hound on June 01, 2013, 05:42:36 PM
O'Brien named on the bench, niggle during the week probably cost him his starting jersey.

Good to see Cormac Costello on the bench. Gavin obviously has some trust in him despite him being injured throughout the league.

Supple, Bastick, Carty, Cullen, Devereux, Fitzsimons, McMahon, O'Gara and Rock are the other Dubs subs named

that a strong bench and still have Alan Brogan,Nolan and McManamon to come back. Is Emmet O'Conghaile still on panel?

If you or someone you know have been upset watching this match, call the Division 2 victim support hotline .
A trained staff of Armagh, Laois, Galway and Longford fans are waiting to talk to you.

Quote from: theticklemister on June 01, 2013, 08:50:41 PM
Sack Pat Flanagan NOW!!!!




Spillane has been very good tonight.

Spillane was good tonight because there was nothing to analyse.

Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2013, 09:11:33 PM
If you or someone you know have been upset watching this match, call the Division 2 victim support hotline .
A trained staff of Armagh, Laois, Galway and Longford fans are waiting to talk to you.

Longford fans have some neck calling themselves D2.

Quote from: From the Bunker on June 01, 2013, 09:12:56 PM

Quote from: theticklemister on June 01, 2013, 08:50:41 PM
Sack Pat Flanagan NOW!!!!




Spillane has been very good tonight.

Spillane was good tonight because there was nothing to analyse.

At least he told me why Waterford were playing Kerry 6 days after Kerry played their previous game

I refuse to believe westmeath are this weak. this team dominated div 2 over armagh galway derry laois and so on..
In the amateur game here population makes a big difference, logic dictates this. Smaller counties rarely win. take dublin with money and pop. they will be on top forever if things continue like this. only rarely by fluke will a smaller county find a good team to beat them or football heavy pops, maybe every 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 years will we see this. this is not good for the sport in general.
do westmeath care about leinster ? if they won today they would be back in croker for semi, how much would leinster co give from the gate? would bumper qualifier against galway/tyrone/armagh or whoever in mullingar (if home draw) suit co board better ? maybe tipp and limerick and other co boards are thinking similar to this.
in game tonight commentators were saying WM had no answer to dublin. it was 15 v 15 so why the gulf in class ? pop strength ? money intake ? who knows...
IMO, its an amateur sport and in the interests of the supporter and the GAA we need to do away with these useless provincial c/ships and create an open draw and more importantly split counties (especially dublin) down to fair sizes for competition. and the same goes for money distribution ( advertising/gates) and so on.
after all this is sport. when we turn on the tv or sit in the stand we want excitement and enjoyment. 

Quote from: gwan-ye-boy-ya on June 01, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
I refuse to believe westmeath are this weak. this team dominated div 2 over armagh galway derry laois and so on..
In the amateur game here population makes a big difference, logic dictates this. Smaller counties rarely win. take dublin with money and pop. they will be on top forever if things continue like this. only rarely by fluke will a smaller county find a good team to beat them or football heavy pops, maybe every 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 years will we see this. this is not good for the sport in general.
do westmeath care about leinster ? if they won today they would be back in croker for semi, how much would leinster co give from the gate? would bumper qualifier against galway/tyrone/armagh or whoever in mullingar (if home draw) suit co board better ? maybe tipp and limerick and other co boards are thinking similar to this.
in game tonight commentators were saying WM had no answer to dublin. it was 15 v 15 so why the gulf in class ? pop strength ? money intake ? who knows...
IMO, its an amateur sport and in the interests of the supporter and the GAA we need to do away with these useless provincial c/ships and create an open draw and more importantly split counties (especially dublin) down to fair sizes for competition. and the same goes for money distribution ( advertising/gates) and so on.
after all this is sport. when we turn on the tv or sit in the stand we want excitement and enjoyment.

I point ye to the London v Money thread.......

Quote from: theticklemister on June 01, 2013, 09:29:27 PM

Quote from: gwan-ye-boy-ya on June 01, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
I refuse to believe westmeath are this weak. this team dominated div 2 over armagh galway derry laois and so on..
In the amateur game here population makes a big difference, logic dictates this. Smaller counties rarely win. take dublin with money and pop. they will be on top forever if things continue like this. only rarely by fluke will a smaller county find a good team to beat them or football heavy pops, maybe every 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 years will we see this. this is not good for the sport in general.
do westmeath care about leinster ? if they won today they would be back in croker for semi, how much would leinster co give from the gate? would bumper qualifier against galway/tyrone/armagh or whoever in mullingar (if home draw) suit co board better ? maybe tipp and limerick and other co boards are thinking similar to this.
in game tonight commentators were saying WM had no answer to dublin. it was 15 v 15 so why the gulf in class ? pop strength ? money intake ? who knows...
IMO, its an amateur sport and in the interests of the supporter and the GAA we need to do away with these useless provincial c/ships and create an open draw and more importantly split counties (especially dublin) down to fair sizes for competition. and the same goes for money distribution ( advertising/gates) and so on.
after all this is sport. when we turn on the tv or sit in the stand we want excitement and enjoyment.

I point ye to the London v Money thread.......

If you want to see real provincial football look at Connacht and Ulster, gwan. Those Leinster lads won't be concentrating on their football until the Lions tour is over.

We'll just sweep Galway's rotting corpse under the carpet, thankyouverymuch.

Quote from: gwan-ye-boy-ya on June 01, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
I refuse to believe westmeath are this weak. this team dominated div 2 over armagh galway derry laois and so on..
In the amateur game here population makes a big difference, logic dictates this. Smaller counties rarely win. take dublin with money and pop. they will be on top forever if things continue like this. only rarely by fluke will a smaller county find a good team to beat them or football heavy pops, maybe every 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 years will we see this. this is not good for the sport in general.
do westmeath care about leinster ? if they won today they would be back in croker for semi, how much would leinster co give from the gate? would bumper qualifier against galway/tyrone/armagh or whoever in mullingar (if home draw) suit co board better ? maybe tipp and limerick and other co boards are thinking similar to this.
in game tonight commentators were saying WM had no answer to dublin. it was 15 v 15 so why the gulf in class ? pop strength ? money intake ? who knows...
IMO, its an amateur sport and in the interests of the supporter and the GAA we need to do away with these useless provincial c/ships and create an open draw and more importantly split counties (especially dublin) down to fair sizes for competition. and the same goes for money distribution ( advertising/gates) and so on.
after all this is sport. when we turn on the tv or sit in the stand we want excitement and enjoyment.

All the gate money from Provincial games goes to the Provinvial Council, all the gate money from Qualifier games goes to Central Council.
An "open draw" being touted as the panacea for all ills by some  would result in even less money coming in.
Think about it - few if any local derbys, lopsided games  (Donegal v Waterford anyone ?) smaller crowds due to distances involved, half the number of Championship games , no Provincial Trophies so you can lord it over your smelly neighbours etc.
Anyway the Leinster Council should end the practice of having Qtr Finals esp those involving Dublin in Croke Park.
Take the Dubs out of Croker and try and even the score a biteen and make an occasion of them visiting Wexford Pk, Portlaoise etc.

Hi guys,

Tactical analysis of Dublin's win over Westmeath now up
http://action81.com/blog/?p=7296

Emmet

Quote from: Rossfan on June 01, 2013, 09:39:24 PM

Quote from: gwan-ye-boy-ya on June 01, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
I refuse to believe westmeath are this weak. this team dominated div 2 over armagh galway derry laois and so on..
In the amateur game here population makes a big difference, logic dictates this. Smaller counties rarely win. take dublin with money and pop. they will be on top forever if things continue like this. only rarely by fluke will a smaller county find a good team to beat them or football heavy pops, maybe every 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 years will we see this. this is not good for the sport in general.
do westmeath care about leinster ? if they won today they would be back in croker for semi, how much would leinster co give from the gate? would bumper qualifier against galway/tyrone/armagh or whoever in mullingar (if home draw) suit co board better ? maybe tipp and limerick and other co boards are thinking similar to this.
in game tonight commentators were saying WM had no answer to dublin. it was 15 v 15 so why the gulf in class ? pop strength ? money intake ? who knows...
IMO, its an amateur sport and in the interests of the supporter and the GAA we need to do away with these useless provincial c/ships and create an open draw and more importantly split counties (especially dublin) down to fair sizes for competition. and the same goes for money distribution ( advertising/gates) and so on.
after all this is sport. when we turn on the tv or sit in the stand we want excitement and enjoyment.

All the gate money from Provincial games goes to the Provinvial Council, all the gate money from Qualifier games goes to Central Council.
An "open draw" being touted as the panacea for all ills by some  would result in even less money coming in.
Think about it - few if any local derbys, lopsided games  (Donegal v Waterford anyone ?) smaller crowds due to distances involved, half the number of Championship games , no Provincial Trophies so you can lord it over your smelly neighbours etc.
Anyway the Leinster Council should end the practice of having Qtr Finals esp those involving Dublin in Croke Park.
Take the Dubs out of Croker and try and even the score a biteen and make an occasion of them visiting Wexford Pk, Portlaoise etc.

prob afraid that Dublin fans may take a notion and turn up and therefore the health and safety rules go out the door

Quote from: Rossfan on June 01, 2013, 09:39:24 PM

Quote from: gwan-ye-boy-ya on June 01, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
I refuse to believe westmeath are this weak. this team dominated div 2 over armagh galway derry laois and so on..
In the amateur game here population makes a big difference, logic dictates this. Smaller counties rarely win. take dublin with money and pop. they will be on top forever if things continue like this. only rarely by fluke will a smaller county find a good team to beat them or football heavy pops, maybe every 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 years will we see this. this is not good for the sport in general.
do westmeath care about leinster ? if they won today they would be back in croker for semi, how much would leinster co give from the gate? would bumper qualifier against galway/tyrone/armagh or whoever in mullingar (if home draw) suit co board better ? maybe tipp and limerick and other co boards are thinking similar to this.
in game tonight commentators were saying WM had no answer to dublin. it was 15 v 15 so why the gulf in class ? pop strength ? money intake ? who knows...
IMO, its an amateur sport and in the interests of the supporter and the GAA we need to do away with these useless provincial c/ships and create an open draw and more importantly split counties (especially dublin) down to fair sizes for competition. and the same goes for money distribution ( advertising/gates) and so on.
after all this is sport. when we turn on the tv or sit in the stand we want excitement and enjoyment.

All the gate money from Provincial games goes to the Provinvial Council, all the gate money from Qualifier games goes to Central Council.
An "open draw" being touted as the panacea for all ills by some  would result in even less money coming in.
Think about it - few if any local derbys, lopsided games  (Donegal v Waterford anyone ?) smaller crowds due to distances involved, half the number of Championship games , no Provincial Trophies so you can lord it over your smelly neighbours etc.
Anyway the Leinster Council should end the practice of having Qtr Finals esp those involving Dublin in Croke Park.
Take the Dubs out of Croker and try and even the score a biteen and make an occasion of them visiting Wexford Pk, Portlaoise etc.

No provincial winners, would mean only one winner each year instead of 4/5 (depending on provincial winner being AI winners). Open draw could see no representation from Connacht in the last eight. Maybe no representation from two provinces. Travel costs for far away draws say Donegal Wexford or Cork Antrim. Gate revenue losses for these games. How would you work a back door in the open draw? No local derbies anymore, Cork Kerry, Mayo Galway, Meath Dublin, Offaly Laois, Monaghan Cavan.

As for splitting the Dubs into smaller amounts ( say North and South), how do you divide their titles won already? Who would follow who? There has to be people with various allegiances in the Capital, it could end up like Balaghdereen. Why not split Kerry up as well? Sure they dominate as well.

If anything there is probably a need for an intermediate Championship, Like the ladies game has. with the winner going up to Senior and a team dropping down from senior through various loser play-offs.

Quote from: gwan-ye-boy-ya on June 01, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
I refuse to believe westmeath are this weak. this team dominated div 2 over armagh galway derry laois and so on..

As results have since proven those teams are pretty average.

from the bunker is correct.

Intermediate county senior football is the way forward. The GAA however really need to promote this !

Tommy Murphy 2.O or TM Rebooted?

The minnows couldn't wait to dump the Tommy Murphy cup as being beneath their dignity.
But the less talented need their own National Competition/Championship as the Qualifiers are naturally for the better teams - well it is a Championship after all so the idea is to get the best teams playing in the closing stages.
If you want to give the small teams a chance/equal playing field then we'd have to have a handicap system - e.g Donegal -4,
Armagh +4, Ros +8, Waterford +12 and so on.

Why hardstation is intermediate and junior different at club level?? I know we painted the town red when getting to the intermediate final in 2010. We had it in massive placards at the back of free derry corner to promote the final.

Maybe counties should relalise their limitations?

Quote from: bennydorano on June 01, 2013, 10:39:25 PM
Tommy Murphy 2.O or TM Rebooted?

We need some marketing head on this job, rebranding, etc. How about reclassifying all the grades into weight classes? Senior would be Heavyweight, Intermediate - Cruiserweight, Junior - Flyweight.

Given the builds on some of those Dublin monsters it seems to fit the bill.

But the beauty of the Intermediate Championship  would mean that the minnows were in it from the beginning. They could not complain that they were to good for this tier. The proof of being good enough would be in winning and gaining promotion to the Senior Ranks. And it would mean something to the county to be back with the Big Boys!

As a Dublin supporter, I feel tonight was a hollow victory. Its certainly done our championship aspirations no good whatsoever. It would have been far more advantageous to our preparations if the game was played in Mullingar. Croke Park was like a morgue tonight, no athmosphere. It would have been a great spectacle for those present and the TV viewers if the game had of been played in Mullingar. It would have been a closer game also.

I have to say Jim Gavin is a brave man. He left 6 or 7 lads  with AI medals on the bench tonight and played kids. Not sure if its good enough to beat the likes of Donegal, far too open at the back. Great to watch though.

As regards Westmeath, they are not as bad as the scoreline suggests. They would probably go close to  beating Kildare.

Quote from: hardstation on June 01, 2013, 11:00:25 PM
. There are only 32 counties. Being the best of 10 bum counties is far from inspiring.

Only 28 clubs in Ros - probably less in Longford/Laythrum/Fermanagh- yet we have 3 grades.
Maybe let the B Counties at it but let the Winner or the  2 Finalists get into a "Round of 12" before the Quarter Finals ?

Quote from: hardstation on June 01, 2013, 11:02:40 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on June 01, 2013, 10:57:09 PM
But the beauty of the Intermediate Championship  would mean that the minnows were in it from the beginning. They could not complain that they were to good for this tier. The proof of being good enough would be in winning and gaining promotion to the Senior Ranks. And it would mean something to the county to be back with the Big Boys!

The one thing the minnow wants to do is get a big county and feckin turn them over. They forget all the hammerings but the odd win will never be forgotten.

Of course, everybody likes to turn over a (so called) Big county. But the hidings some of these counties get can't be good. Year in year out. 

Quote from: hardstation on June 01, 2013, 10:47:25 PM
No!!!!!!!! (That's what Ulster says).

We played in the Tommy Murphy Cup and I stood in Croke Park cheering as we lifted the cup but it meant nothing, really.

I was happy when we won the Christy Ring but it meant nothing, really.

Don't pretend that winning stupid cups mean anything.

Everyone should have the same fair crack at Sam, ye shower of elitist bastids.

We always get bate..........but we love it.

P.S. I was there when we got to the Ulster Final, I was there when we beat Galway in the qualifiers, I was there when we beat the Dubs in hurling. Let me tell ye, there is no feeling like it.

I don't like the way they attach legendary names to 2nd level competitions.

Christy Ring would never have played in the Christy Ring Cup.

They should use appropriate names for 2nd level competitions such as The Joe Brolly Mug or The Sludden Spoon.

Quote from: Drummerboy on June 01, 2013, 11:01:17 PM
As a Dublin supporter, I feel tonight was a hollow victory. Its certainly done our championship aspirations no good whatsoever. It would have been far more advantageous to our preparations if the game was played in Mullingar. Croke Park was like a morgue tonight, no athmosphere. It would have been a great spectacle for those present and the TV viewers if the game had of been played in Mullingar. It would have been a closer game also.

I have to say Jim Gavin is a brave man. He left 6 or 7 lads  with AI medals on the bench tonight and played kids. Not sure if its good enough to beat the likes of Donegal, far too open at the back. Great to watch though.

As regards Westmeath, they are not as bad as the scoreline suggests. They would probably go close to  beating Kildare.

Westmeath wouldn't come within an ass's roar of Kildare performing at their usual championship level.

forget mickey mouse cups.. open draw is way to go. sure at least(in a group of 4) a county would get 3 good games and could build on that. as for derbies and the like , thats the fun of the open draw, seeing whom youll get.
no matter what ye say a 32 divided by 8 groups of 4 will bring in more revenue than excising format.

There's a simple solution, link the league and championship. Job done, all problems solved. Why it hasn't happened is beyond me.

Quote from: Syferus on June 01, 2013, 11:34:42 PM

Quote from: Drummerboy on June 01, 2013, 11:01:17 PM
As a Dublin supporter, I feel tonight was a hollow victory. Its certainly done our championship aspirations no good whatsoever. It would have been far more advantageous to our preparations if the game was played in Mullingar. Croke Park was like a morgue tonight, no athmosphere. It would have been a great spectacle for those present and the TV viewers if the game had of been played in Mullingar. It would have been a closer game also.

I have to say Jim Gavin is a brave man. He left 6 or 7 lads  with AI medals on the bench tonight and played kids. Not sure if its good enough to beat the likes of Donegal, far too open at the back. Great to watch though.

As regards Westmeath, they are not as bad as the scoreline suggests. They would probably go close to  beating Kildare.

Westmeath wouldn't come within an ass's roar of Kildare performing at their usual championship level.

What exactly is Kildares usual championship level. They lost to a division 3 team last year.

Quote from: Drummerboy on June 02, 2013, 12:32:27 AM

Quote from: Syferus on June 01, 2013, 11:34:42 PM

Quote from: Drummerboy on June 01, 2013, 11:01:17 PM
As a Dublin supporter, I feel tonight was a hollow victory. Its certainly done our championship aspirations no good whatsoever. It would have been far more advantageous to our preparations if the game was played in Mullingar. Croke Park was like a morgue tonight, no athmosphere. It would have been a great spectacle for those present and the TV viewers if the game had of been played in Mullingar. It would have been a closer game also.

I have to say Jim Gavin is a brave man. He left 6 or 7 lads  with AI medals on the bench tonight and played kids. Not sure if its good enough to beat the likes of Donegal, far too open at the back. Great to watch though.

As regards Westmeath, they are not as bad as the scoreline suggests. They would probably go close to  beating Kildare.

Westmeath wouldn't come within an ass's roar of Kildare performing at their usual championship level.

What exactly is Kildares usual championship level. They lost to a division 3 team last year.

Why are so many people so annoyed by Kildare that it blinds them to their position in the grand scheme of counties?

I understand and accept the logic of the back door/qualifier system and the benefit of more games, etc., and it's all logical and sensible. But there's still something wrong when a championship game effectively means nothing and both teams are still in the championship when it's over and nothing really is different as a result of the match. It impacts for me most of all when Meath play Dublin. It doesn't matter anymore who wins. There's something fundamental wrong with that and with the loss of the blood and thunder, all or nothing quality that these matches used to have. Gone forever.

Quote from: Syferus on June 02, 2013, 12:56:15 AM

Quote from: Drummerboy on June 02, 2013, 12:32:27 AM

Quote from: Syferus on June 01, 2013, 11:34:42 PM

Quote from: Drummerboy on June 01, 2013, 11:01:17 PM
As a Dublin supporter, I feel tonight was a hollow victory. Its certainly done our championship aspirations no good whatsoever. It would have been far more advantageous to our preparations if the game was played in Mullingar. Croke Park was like a morgue tonight, no athmosphere. It would have been a great spectacle for those present and the TV viewers if the game had of been played in Mullingar. It would have been a closer game also.

I have to say Jim Gavin is a brave man. He left 6 or 7 lads  with AI medals on the bench tonight and played kids. Not sure if its good enough to beat the likes of Donegal, far too open at the back. Great to watch though.

As regards Westmeath, they are not as bad as the scoreline suggests. They would probably go close to  beating Kildare.

Westmeath wouldn't come within an ass's roar of Kildare performing at their usual championship level.

What exactly is Kildares usual championship level. They lost to a division 3 team last year.

Why are so many people so annoyed by Kildare that it blinds them to their position in the grand scheme of counties?

Kildare were beaten by a Division 2 team last year Meath and a Division 1 team Cork. The year before 2 Division 1 teams Dublin and Donegal, the year before that Division 3 Louth and Divison 2 Down and the year before that 2 Divison 1 teams Dublin and Tyrone and finally in 2008 a Division 4 team Micklow and a Division 1 team Cork.

So under McGeeney 6 defeats to Division 1 opposition, 2 to Division 2 and 1 each to Division 3 and 4.  So they are the facts and people can make from that what they want.

It's always easier to be critical than correct.

Quote from: Hardy on June 02, 2013, 02:09:09 AM
I understand and accept the logic of the back door/qualifier system and the benefit of more games, etc., and it's all logical and sensible. But there's still something wrong when a championship game effectively means nothing and both teams are still in the championship when it's over and nothing really is different as a result of the match. It impacts for me most of all when Meath play Dublin. It doesn't matter anymore who wins. There's something fundamental wrong with that and with the loss of the blood and thunder, all or nothing quality that these matches used to have. Gone forever.

If we had a decent team it'd matter Hardy.
Unfortunately they are 10 points+ a better team than us in recent years which means they play in 3rd gear and our lads play like they don't think they can win it anyway.
Back in 2005 and 2007 we had hugely competitive Meath v Dublin games, but we had the likes of GG, Fayser, Moyles and Crawford and what seemed to be a promising bunch of youngsters (Bray, Byrne, Farrell, Ward, Joe etc.).
We had the odd good day since but that was more by accident than design.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 02, 2013, 06:53:20 AM

Kildare were beaten by a Division 2 team last year Meath and a Division 1 team Cork. The year before 2 Division 1 teams Dublin and Donegal, the year before that Division 3 Louth and Divison 2 Down and the year before that 2 Divison 1 teams Dublin and Tyrone and finally in 2008 a Division 4 team Micklow and a Division 1 team Cork.

So under McGeeney 6 defeats to Division 1 opposition, 2 to Division 2 and 1 each to Division 3 and 4.  So they are the facts and people can make from that what they want.

It's always easier to be critical than correct.

A mixed bag. I'd look from a different angle. How many Division One (and possibly Division Two) teams have been beaten by Kildare under McGeeney? Not many i'd say?

Ah, I'm not going to go on a Top table rant but Kildare have not beaten Dublin, Cork, Kerry, Tyrone, Cork, Donegal or Mayo in Championship football, Granted they have not met Mayo or Kerry. But for me until they beat one of these they are not in the top mix for an AI. Jez, I don't consider Mayo in the to mix and they have beaten a couple of those.

Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2013, 09:24:20 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 02, 2013, 02:09:09 AM
I understand and accept the logic of the back door/qualifier system and the benefit of more games, etc., and it's all logical and sensible. But there's still something wrong when a championship game effectively means nothing and both teams are still in the championship when it's over and nothing really is different as a result of the match. It impacts for me most of all when Meath play Dublin. It doesn't matter anymore who wins. There's something fundamental wrong with that and with the loss of the blood and thunder, all or nothing quality that these matches used to have. Gone forever.

If we had a decent team it'd matter Hardy.
Unfortunately they are 10 points+ a better team than us in recent years which means they play in 3rd gear and our lads play like they don't think they can win it anyway.
Back in 2005 and 2007 we had hugely competitive Meath v Dublin games, but we had the likes of GG, Fayser, Moyles and Crawford and what seemed to be a promising bunch of youngsters (Bray, Byrne, Farrell, Ward, Joe etc.).
We had the odd good day since but that was more by accident than design.

Maybe it was better pre QFs when if you had a bad team you'd get it over with in one match.

Quote from: From the Bunker on June 02, 2013, 09:59:10 AM

Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 02, 2013, 06:53:20 AM

Kildare were beaten by a Division 2 team last year Meath and a Division 1 team Cork. The year before 2 Division 1 teams Dublin and Donegal, the year before that Division 3 Louth and Divison 2 Down and the year before that 2 Divison 1 teams Dublin and Tyrone and finally in 2008 a Division 4 team Micklow and a Division 1 team Cork.

So under McGeeney 6 defeats to Division 1 opposition, 2 to Division 2 and 1 each to Division 3 and 4.  So they are the facts and people can make from that what they want.

It's always easier to be critical than correct.

A mixed bag. I'd look from a different angle. How many Division One (and possibly Division Two) teams have been beaten by Kildare under McGeeney? Not many i'd say?

Ah, I'm not going to go on a Top table rant but Kildare have not beaten Dublin, Cork, Kerry, Tyrone, Cork, Donegal or Mayo in Championship football, Granted they have not met Mayo or Kerry. But for me until they beat one of these they are not in the top mix for an AI. Jez, I don't consider Mayo in the to mix and they have beaten a couple of those.

Absolutely fair comment.

However people need to stop judging Kildare against Leinster titles and All-Irelands, that is short-term and not the only barometer of success. If you judge Kildare against it's history and it's footballing culture this is a very successful Kildare team.

Kildare are trying to shake of the weight of our tradition and our history, so some people might judge McGeeney on the lack of silverware or the failure to beat a Dublin or a Kerry but what McGeeney is changing is our culture, he is building a legacy and has created a path way from u14 to Senior. We are the only county at under-age in Leinster that can go toe with the Dublin juggernaut. We won't win an All-Ireland this year or next year and it will probably take another manager to move us on but Kildare are getting there inch by inch and as long we stay on the coat tail of Dublin football there will be more good days than bad days.

Ok so we're all sick of these one sided games but we don't want to send teams into weaker competitions meaning we wont see any shocks in the championship. Some would like an open draw for championship but we don't want to lose the provincial championship. We want to go back to old fashioned knock out competition but we also want teams to get extra games.
Bit of a conundrum. How do we keep everyone happy? Well I'm just milling around for a few hours till the matches start later so I will come up with the perfect solution right now! That's right I will come up with a solution that makes everyone happy. Dont matter to save the day. I will make a new thread about it. If I can't come up with a solution I wont make a new thread and this post will be deleted post haste.

Quote from: seafoid on June 02, 2013, 10:26:23 AM

Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2013, 09:24:20 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 02, 2013, 02:09:09 AM
I understand and accept the logic of the back door/qualifier system and the benefit of more games, etc., and it's all logical and sensible. But there's still something wrong when a championship game effectively means nothing and both teams are still in the championship when it's over and nothing really is different as a result of the match. It impacts for me most of all when Meath play Dublin. It doesn't matter anymore who wins. There's something fundamental wrong with that and with the loss of the blood and thunder, all or nothing quality that these matches used to have. Gone forever.

If we had a decent team it'd matter Hardy.
Unfortunately they are 10 points+ a better team than us in recent years which means they play in 3rd gear and our lads play like they don't think they can win it anyway.
Back in 2005 and 2007 we had hugely competitive Meath v Dublin games, but we had the likes of GG, Fayser, Moyles and Crawford and what seemed to be a promising bunch of youngsters (Bray, Byrne, Farrell, Ward, Joe etc.).
We had the odd good day since but that was more by accident than design.

Maybe it was better pre QFs when if you had a bad team you'd get it over with in one match.

It's all relative though.
Are Westmeath a 'bad' team because Dublin hammered them?
Dublin would hammer most teams.
Westmeath could win their next game and get a run going in the qualifiers.
If you're a Westmeath fan, that gives you games to look forward to at the height of summer.
Ultimately I think that's much better than having to lick your wounds for another year, depressed about the beating you've just received at the hands of the probable All-Ireland champions.

Link the league and championship, get rid of the provincial championships and hey presto we have a sensible, structured, fair season.

Quote from: Dont Matter on June 02, 2013, 12:15:57 PM
Ok so we're all sick of these one sided games but we don't want to send teams into weaker competitions meaning we wont see any shocks in the championship. Some would like an open draw for championship but we don't want to lose the provincial championship. We want to go back to old fashioned knock out competition but we also want teams to get extra games.
Bit of a conundrum. How do we keep everyone happy? Well I'm just milling around for a few hours till the matches start later so I will come up with the perfect solution right now! That's right I will come up with a solution that makes everyone happy. Dont matter to save the day. I will make a new thread about it. If I can't come up with a solution I wont make a new thread and this post will be deleted post haste.

Remember when everyone was going mad about the system being unfair on the provincial champions?
People would want to settle down.
Every year there's some new panic.
In a few weeks time, we'll have had plenty of competitive games, teams like Westmeath will be progressing through the qualifiers and nobody will even remember the first round games.

Fact is that the gap between the top teams & the rest is now so wide that the championship proper won't start until the quarter finals.
It's been like this for years in hurling & football is now going the same way. Sad but that's the way it is.

Quote from: Dont Matter on June 02, 2013, 12:15:57 PM
Ok so we're all sick of these one sided games but we don't want to send teams into weaker competitions meaning we wont see any shocks in the championship. Some would like an open draw for championship but we don't want to lose the provincial championship. We want to go back to old fashioned knock out competition but we also want teams to get extra games.
Bit of a conundrum. How do we keep everyone happy?

You can't keep everybody happy and that's both the beauty and the failure of the GAA system.

Some people say you could have a league system which abolished the Division 1-4 groupings and gives weaker counties more games against stronger teams but that's been tried before and lots of people didn't like it. But if you stick with the current league system the gap between the strong and the weak will probably continue to widen.

Some people in Ulster will complain about the easy run to the quarter-finals that Kerry and Cork have but most people in Ulster don't want the Ulster Championship scrapped.

Some people say that having an open draw will give weaker counties a better chance to compete but other people will say that will mean weaker counties will have no possibility of ever winning any silverware and discourage them.

Some people want a Champions League-style championship structure but other people say that will damage the club game. Some people want to return to straight knock out but other people will say "what's the point of training for six months and only getting to play one game?"

Some people want a divisional championship where only eight teams compete for the Sam Maguire but others would say that will be the death of inter-county football.

Some people want less TV matches saying that they damage attendances at club matches but other people say that you need as many live TV matches as possible to maximise media exposure.

Some people think that counties should merge to enable them to compete better but other people would rather die than see their county team disappear.

Some people think that negative tactics are killing Gaelic football but others think it's great to see new thinking in terms of tactical preparation and systems of play.

Some people think Dublin should be split into two to stop their dominance in Leinster but others think that would be a total disaster.

Some people think it's great that so much money is being pumped into developing the GAA in Dublin but others moan that they can't compete with them as a result.

Some people say matches like last night's shouldn't be played in Croke Park but if they were played at provincial venues others will complain about their county never getting to play there.

Some people think that players should be paid because of all the effort they put in but others think that would be the death of the GAA as we know it.

Repeat for any number of other issues.

folks was b brogan on the field of play when the goal was scored?

Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 02, 2013, 12:34:58 PM
Fact is that the gap between the top teams & the rest is now so wide that the championship proper won't start until the quarter finals.
It's been like this for years in hurling & football is now going the same way. Sad but that's the way it is.

But yet Wexford, Fermanagh and Sligo have all genuinely competed at the business end of the All-Ireland championship in recent years. Westmeath won a Leinster title for the first time ever. Laois won one for the first time in countless decades. Limerick reached the quarter-finals in 2011. Wicklow had a good run a few years ago and beat Down who came out of nowhere to thrash Kerry and almost win the All-Ireland the following year. Donegal and Mayo were both humiliated in 2010 but yet within two years they were contesting the All-Ireland final.

Gaelic Football is not such a skilful game that good coaching and preparation can't enable teams to compete. There are plenty of counties out there that have talent but for whatever reason are not competing properly. 

Disappointing last night. Really thought Westmeath would put up a better show and it could have been a lot worse if Connolly had his shooting boots on for the goal chances. Serious pace and hard work from Dublin but still quite open defensively.
The qualifiers has taken the bite out of matches without a doubt but Kildare are due a big game against the Dubs so it'll be interesting to see how it pans out in the semi. 
   

QuoteGaelic Football is not such a skilful game that good coaching and preparation can't enable teams to compete. There are plenty of counties out there that have talent but for whatever reason are not competing properly.

That's simply incorrect. Football is like every other game in the world, preparation and tactics can help teams but skills ultimately dictate who wins titles. Dublin are where they are largely because they are producing skilful footballers, Donegal's 'system' wouldn't work without the few exceptional player they have. Football is a hugely challenging and skillful game.

Westmeath were so bad last night it was shocking but I wouldn't use this as a barometer to dis the qualifiers.

In Longford we have few good days in the Leinster (hey in the last 32 years we have only beaten 'top' teams twice, Meath in 1981 and Laois last year and neither are/were much use at the time inanyways) but in the Qualifiers we've had marvellous wins (Derry, Mayo etc) and marvellous occasions (the trip to Killarney for one).

The problem is the provincial championships format itself. But these will never be changed as no one county in Leinster would vote to scrap this as the drip down from the Dubs filling/almost filling Croke Park once or twice a year is significant to smaller counties like Longford.

However it may come to pass that in a Leinster final where Dubs are going for 400 in a row we may see a barren Hill16 as Dubs decide to forget going to these games and hold off until the AI semi final! Then there may be a different story.

QuoteThe problem is the provincial championships format itself. But these will never be changed as no one county in Leinster would vote to scrap this as the drip down from the Dubs filling/almost filling Croke Park once or twice a year is significant to smaller counties like Longford.

A good point but I think other formats can still ensure all counties benefit financially.

But Zulu county board are inherently selfish and why would Carlow, Longford, Wexford vote to split the Dub golden goose 32 ways when it currently is split over 12?

I'd love to see a proposal to Congress where all monies from Championship games goes into central funds. This would be the first step to correcting the imbalance in the current format.

How many titles would Kerry have if they had more to do than almost get a bye to the finals in the black and white days?

But if you linked league and championship you'd have far more games with big crowds, more TV money, more sponsorship money, a shorter season (saving money) so all counties should be able to get more from a bigger pot.

Quote from: Zulu on June 02, 2013, 01:09:22 PM

QuoteGaelic Football is not such a skilful game that good coaching and preparation can't enable teams to compete. There are plenty of counties out there that have talent but for whatever reason are not competing properly.

That's simply incorrect. Football is like every other game in the world, preparation and tactics can help teams but skills ultimately dictate who wins titles. Dublin are where they are largely because they are producing skilful footballers, Donegal's 'system' wouldn't work without the few exceptional player they have. Football is a hugely challenging and skillful game.

Were Wexford, Sligo and Fermanagh even in the top 10-15 most skilful teams in the country when they were challenging at the business end of the championship?

Talent and skills-wise, I'm not sure I'd have Donegal in the top five in the country. Don't forget that this largely the same panel of players who were annihilated by Armagh in 2010. But their coaching, tactics and preparation have enabled them to develop their talent and skills a level far above that of other counties.

I didn't suggest that weaker counties should be winning All-Irelands by the way, just that the perceived unbridgeable gap between the strong and the rest can be at least significantly narrowed.

You mention other games. Were Greece the most skilful team in Europe in 2004? Were Liverpool in 2005?

It's entirely possible that the current championship system is the least worst option.
Don't forget, no intercounty player plays for one team and one team alone, which in itself introduces a myriad of fixture issues.

Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2013, 01:53:09 PM
It's entirely possible that the current championship system is the least worst option.
Don't forget, no intercounty player plays for one team and one team alone, which in itself introduces a myriad of fixture issues.

Agreed.

I'm also wary of abandoning the provincial championships. Why dispose of a format with 5 possible champions for one with only 1? Westmeath, Sligo, Roscommon, Donegal, Laois, have all recently marched to a hugely celebrated victories. Clare, Fermanagh, Antrim, Monaghan, Wexford, Down, Kildare and Louth have all gotten to provincial titles which have produced great interest and exposure of the games in their native counties.

A format without provincial championships would dispose of this and leave the weaker counties with only one-off surprise victories against stronger opposition as their reason d'etre.

Lads, I said earlier I'm going to come up with the solution that keeps everyone happy. Impossible some of ye have said. Well I've done it. I have the perfect system but you'll have to wait for me to reveal it as I have to go to a match soon.

Write it down so you don't forget it.

Derry beaten as well. So that is 6 out of 8 D2 teams out on the first day and the other 2 are playing each other.
FFS.

Louth beat Laois in an all-Division 2 game, Wexford (also Division 2) play them next. Neither can face a Division 1 team (Dublin or Kildare) until the Leinster Final at the earliest as they play the winner of Meath (Div 3) and Wicklow (Div 4).

Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2013, 02:54:55 PM
Write it down so you don't forget it.

Too late, I've forgotten it. It was the most ingenious plan of all time. It would have solved everything. It's still somewhere in me brain though. It might come out some other time.
At least Laois won.

Quote from: Dont Matter on June 02, 2013, 04:50:08 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2013, 02:54:55 PM
Write it down so you don't forget it.

Too late, I've forgotten it. It was the most ingenious plan of all time. It would have solved everything. It's still somewhere in me brain though. It might come out some other time.
At least Laois won.

You snooze.....You....

Ah no only messin, I'll get back to work on it. Set your eyes to stunned.

So I'm GAA president master and god for a day
This is what I'd do
Play the old all Ireland format in the spring instead of the league


From lets say April start the big one

32 county open draw with a qualifier system

When it's down to the last eight ( to be marketed as the super eight series) split the teams into 2 groups of 4 with each team playing the other teams in their group once

Top 2 teams in each group qualify for the all Ireland semi

Going on the last ten years teams like Sligo Westmeath Wexford
Fermanagh Limerick Have all reached at least the last eight.

Going on 2010 the groups might have looked something like

Dublin.             Kerry
Tyrone.             Down
Cork                 Kildare
Donegal.           Meath

Nice little competition to have at the height of summer
A lot of the group games could be played at nutreal venues on sunny sat evenings

Dublin away to Cork needing a point to qualify might be tasty fixture.
Kerry facing Down needing a win etc etc

Why not cut out the middlemen and only allow Div1 teams Counties to play in that Championship of yours  >:(

Eh Every team would have an equal chance of reaching the last eight !
The only real change is instead of quarter final knock out games the last eight are grouped giving all of us more high quality even games during the height of summer

This is what I'd do
Play the old all Ireland format in the spring instead of the league


From lets say April start the big one

32 county open draw with a qualifier system

When it's down to the last eight ( to be marketed as the super eight series) split the teams into 2 groups of 4 with each team playing the other teams in their group once

Top 2 teams in each group qualify for the all Ireland semi

Going on the last ten years teams like Sligo Westmeath Wexford
Fermanagh Limerick Have all reached at least the last eight.

Going on 2010 the groups might have looked something like

Dublin.             Kerry
Tyrone.             Down
Cork                 Kildare
Donegal.           Meath

Nice little competition to have at the height of summer
A lot of the group games could be played at nutreal venues on sunny sat evenings

Dublin away to Cork needing a point to qualify might be tasty fixture.

16 counties get 1 game all year
8 Counties get 2 games all year
8 Counties get a whole raft of games and the people of the other 24 Counties are supposed to watch them and be all excited.

Has to be a windup  ;) :D

You're in the wrong thread if you're looking for the way forward. There's a thread on the main page with a great idea, if it's implemented it could change the face of football forever.

Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2013, 09:25:21 PM
16 counties get 1 game all year
8 Counties get 2 games all year
8 Counties get a whole raft of games and the people of the other 24 Counties are supposed to watch them and be all excited.

Has to be a windup  ;) :D

ye I just copped that
Keep the league as we know it in the spring
My main change is geared toward the summer competition.

At a loss to explain Saturday night, team apart from Kevin Maguire just didn't turn up. Dessie a big loss, probably more so mentally than physically. I didn't expect us to win but I did expect us to beat the spread. Our half forward line, which was probably our strongest line through the league, hasn't performed since the Armagh game. Need an easy away game like Waterford to overnight, bond and get going again. No point debating all the advantages that the Dubs have going for them as we've issues we need to address first.

Quote from: seafoid on June 02, 2013, 10:26:23 AM

Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2013, 09:24:20 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 02, 2013, 02:09:09 AM
I understand and accept the logic of the back door/qualifier system and the benefit of more games, etc., and it's all logical and sensible. But there's still something wrong when a championship game effectively means nothing and both teams are still in the championship when it's over and nothing really is different as a result of the match. It impacts for me most of all when Meath play Dublin. It doesn't matter anymore who wins. There's something fundamental wrong with that and with the loss of the blood and thunder, all or nothing quality that these matches used to have. Gone forever.

If we had a decent team it'd matter Hardy.
Unfortunately they are 10 points+ a better team than us in recent years which means they play in 3rd gear and our lads play like they don't think they can win it anyway.
Back in 2005 and 2007 we had hugely competitive Meath v Dublin games, but we had the likes of GG, Fayser, Moyles and Crawford and what seemed to be a promising bunch of youngsters (Bray, Byrne, Farrell, Ward, Joe etc.).
We had the odd good day since but that was more by accident than design.

Maybe it was better pre QFs when if you had a bad team you'd get it over with in one match.

LOL LOL LOL  u a funny guy