Redemption awaits - Down by 3 points - !
What are you on
+1 Pangurban
Down, down, down? The way the league is shaping up this could end up being a relegation decider for both teams.
I have to imagine Down will be motivated by the trap door and being at home so they should get closer to Cork than they have at any time since the 2010 AI final. Still very hard to see them winning, but it is set up to be a game that goes against the form book.
They will only get closer because Parc Esler is a smaller pitch. ;D
Down can never hack cork's pace and prescence. cork at 4/9; easy money.
Cork should win this one. Down will need to win one of their next 2 games both at home as they have away trips to Kerry and Dublin before a home game to Kildare to finish up. Cant see us staying up but to be honest would be more interested to see if we are developing any sort of a system for championship. We finished in the top four of Div 1 for last 2 years and thought we were in decent shape for championship when we clearly werent.
Cork appeared fairly clueless against Kildare. I was surprised at how tactically naive they were. If Down adopt a defensive approach Cork might struggle.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 27, 2013, 06:08:55 PM
Cork appeared fairly clueless against Kildare. I was surprised at how tactically naive they were. If Down adopt a defensive approach Cork might struggle.
Next thing somebody will say Down can't defend. Or something to that extent.
Down team
1 Michael Cunningham
2 Daniel McCartan
3 Brendan McArdle
4 Ryan Boyle
5 Ryan Mallon
6 Aidan Carr
7 Keith Quinn
8 Kalum King
9 Kevin McKernan
10 Damian Turley
11 Mark Poland
12 Donal O'Hare
13 Conor Laverty
14 Benny Coulter
15 Connaire Harrison
Benny comes in for Paul McComiskey, but, apart from a couple of positional switches, it is almost the same side which started against Donegal. After our second half display in Ballybofey, that is a little surprising. However, Cork's form has also been patchy and they are not always great travellers in the league. At 5/2, particularly in Newry, we may be over-priced,
Really hard defeat to take. Some fantastic individual performances, sound tactics and management, bravery in the line of duty but the only stat that will be remembered is our third league defeat and another loss to Cork.
It was like a death in the last 20 seconds and cruel for a committed group of players. Our usual good first half, no respect for reputations and only a comedy of errors prevented a 5 point lead at the interval. Rather we went in leading by 2, had our traditional 3rd quarter collapse but regrouped and really really should have seen the game out. A moment's lapse by the otherwise excellent Mc Comiskey, just like Harrison at the end of the first half,reminded us that Division 1 requires 100% concentration. Donal O'Hare has arrived-as good an hour from a Down player as I've seen. Mc Kernan, Carr, Mallon, Mc Cartan, Coulter and Lavery deserved more than pats on the back. Feckit, sport is cruel but we have no choice but to bounce back.
Real excellent performance as Dubh Driocht points out. Stars all over the field. Coulter destroyed Shields and anyone else they tried on him. O'Hare was top class. It was real smash and grab by Cork. First and last goals were scrambled affairs and the second was a bad mistake by Cunningham who looked jittery all day. Down by far the better team against a nearly full strength cynical Cork who tried without success to take Benny out of it in the second half. Green shoots of spring for wee James I hope.
The destination newry commentary would have suggested that the ref was very one sided in favour of cork. Would that have been the reality?
Quote from: fingerbob on March 03, 2013, 06:03:36 PM
The destination newry commentary would have suggested that the ref was very one sided in favour of cork. Would that have been the reality?
A few strange decisions alright but he didn't beat us.
Sorry should also have mentioned Harrison's goal. Watch out for it tonight on RTE. Screamer!
Thought the ref let Cork away with cynical fouling from the start, and they went about it Donegal style the whole game. Very poor performance by Deegan in a time when these tactics are being discussed so much. Not the reason for that unlucky defeat though. That was down to individual errors for their 3 goals.
Sport is a cruel mistress and she was brave and cruel today in Newry! How and ever there are some positives for us. We matched a much more physical team and without the errors we'd have have 2 well deserved points on the board. Would we have played as well had we been in Croke Park who knows.
I hope today doesn' t define our year in Div 1.
That was hard to take, but we are heading for Div.2 in good shape for the Championship and possible redemption. We are improving with every outing and come Summer there could be a battle for places
Just frustrating that we cannot hold on to a lead. A win today would have been immense and great for the confidence. We are making progress I believe and the likes of Donal O Hare are playing out of their skin. Simple errors cost us in the end. Deegan-what they hell was he at?
really frustrating result but an encouraging performance. to score 1-17 against cork and still lose is hard to take. donal o hare was brilliant. aiden carr and ryan boyle also stood out in a good team performance.
the only downside for me was some baffling subsitutions. how shea mc ardle jerome johston and eoin mc cartan are ahead of ryan kelly and arthur mc conville in the pecking order is anbodys guess. none of the above mentioned subs really made any impact.
encouraging signs in defeat but still hard to take.
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 03, 2013, 08:11:23 PM
really frustrating result but an encouraging performance. to score 1-17 against cork and still lose is hard to take. donal o hare was brilliant. aiden carr and ryan boyle also stood out in a good team performance.
the only downside for me was some baffling subsitutions. how shea mc ardle jerome johston and eoin mc cartan are ahead of ryan kelly and arthur mc conville in the pecking order is anbodys guess. none of the above mentioned subs really made any impact.
encouraging signs in defeat but still hard to take.
You are right Sheedy. We have a weak bench. Need the the two Dans &@ Ambrose back
Quote from: 5 Sams on March 03, 2013, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 03, 2013, 08:11:23 PM
really frustrating result but an encouraging performance. to score 1-17 against cork and still lose is hard to take. donal o hare was brilliant. aiden carr and ryan boyle also stood out in a good team performance.
the only downside for me was some baffling subsitutions. how shea mc ardle jerome johston and eoin mc cartan are ahead of ryan kelly and arthur mc conville in the pecking order is anbodys guess. none of the above mentioned subs really made any impact.
encouraging signs in defeat but still hard to take.
You are right Sheedy. We have a weak bench. Need the the two Dans &@ Ambrose back
plus connor garvey and darren o hagan.
Its an awful thing to say but I'm not convinced that Ambrose can be the force he was a few years back and we shouldn't be heaping all that expectation on him. He has had several serious injuries which have taken their toll on him and for a fine big lad he has just had some bad luck.
We need Dan round the middle as King just isn't mobile enough, as well as not delivering consistently at this level.
Things can only get better (apart from the manager continuing to play his clearly unfit brother).
Today's result was a bitter pill, as we were by some distance the better side and the win would have left us with all to play for in the league. However, even if relegation seems a certainty, we need to take the lessons on board and move on.
Concentration was the biggest problem, as three lapses cost us three pretty dreadful goals, two of them unforgivably with the last kick of each half. We also hit a number of aimless passes, including a couple from frees for which we had worked hard to get in the first place.
The other huge difference between the teams was long distance free taking, as almost all of the Cork efforts sailed over the bar and we seem to have no one with the confidence to take on kicks outside Donal O'Hare's range.
It would be a pity if we overlooked the fact that it was still a tremendous performance in the face of adversity by a predominantly young team who are clearly responding strongly to their manager, and it's hard to remember the last time we got 1-17 and lost.
You would have to sympathise with Michael Cunningham, as his distribution was generally good and he is a fine shot-stopper, but the second goal was a small disaster and his confidence seemed to go downhill afterwards. Brendy McVeigh probably made a worse mistake in the league play-off against Cork last Spring, so it can happen to anyone, but McVeigh will probably and justifiably return against Mayo.
Our much maligned full back line did well and again Daniel McCartan was excellent. He covers gaps brilliantly and the moment when he anticipated the breaking ball in our square, carried it out of danger and played it calmly up the field summed up his display. Ryan Boyle was also solid, while Benny McArdle was generally decent but may have been caught out for at least one of the goals.
Ryan Mallon is a confident and improving defender, and took a fine point, while Aidan Carr was almost always in control at centre half and made a couple of outstanding blocks. His man, Sheehan, finished with two goals, but they were both freakish scores. Paul McComiskey, amazingly, spent most of the game at wing half back and completely dominated Kerrigan. He also used the ball effectively, until a cruel misjudgment in injury time when he really should have thumped it anywhere.
Kallum King worked as hard as ever without winning enough ball while Kevin McKernan had his best match for probably a couple of seasons and was the dominant midfielder on display.
Keith Quinn had a mixed day, covering plenty of ground but not creating much, while Mark Poland, after a difficult start to the season, is starting to look himself again. Conor Laverty was excellent, continually finding time and space, and his brilliant run and fisted point really should have clinched the result.
Connaire Harrison took his goal expertly and it was a pity that his only real mistake led fairly quickly to their second goal shortly afterwards. Benny did not score but switched effectively between midfield and full forward while regularly winning balls when double marked. Donal O'Hare was man of the match, and nine points from nine shots, five from play, tells its own story.
Of the subs, Jerome Johnston is on the small side but has pace and determination, while Eoin McCartan and Shea McArdle saw little of the ball in the closing stages.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on March 03, 2013, 09:45:22 PM
Today's result was a bitter pill, as we were by some distance the better side and the win would have left us with all to play for in the league. However, even if relegation seems a certainty, we need to take the lessons on board and move on.
Concentration was the biggest problem, as three lapses cost us three pretty dreadful goals, two of them unforgivably with the last kick of each half. We also hit a number of aimless passes, including a couple from frees for which we had worked hard to get in the first place.
The other huge difference between the teams was long distance free taking, as almost all of the Cork efforts sailed over the bar and we seem to have no one with the confidence to take on kicks outside Donal O'Hare's range.
It would be a pity if we overlooked the fact that it was still a tremendous performance in the face of adversity by a predominantly young team who are clearly responding strongly to their manager, and it's hard to remember the last time we got 1-17 and lost.
You would have to sympathise with Michael Cunningham, as his distribution was generally good and he is a fine shot-stopper, but the second goal was a small disaster and his confidence seemed to go downhill afterwards. Brendy McVeigh probably made a worse mistake in the league play-off against Cork last Spring, so it can happen to anyone, but McVeigh will probably and justifiably return against Mayo.
Our much maligned full back line did well and again Daniel McCartan was excellent. He covers gaps brilliantly and the moment when he anticipated the breaking ball in our square, carried it out of danger and played it calmly up the field summed up his display. Ryan Boyle was also solid, while Benny McArdle was generally decent but may have been caught out for at least one of the goals.
Ryan Mallon is a confident and improving defender, and took a fine point, while Aidan Carr was almost always in control at centre half and made a couple of outstanding blocks. His man, Sheehan, finished with two goals, but they were both freakish scores. Paul McComiskey, amazingly, spent most of the game at wing half back and completely dominated Kerrigan. He also used the ball effectively, until a cruel misjudgment in injury time when he really should have thumped it anywhere.
Kallum King worked as hard as ever without winning enough ball while Kevin McKernan had his best match for probably a couple of seasons and was the dominant midfielder on display.
Keith Quinn had a mixed day, covering plenty of ground but not creating much, while Mark Poland, after a difficult start to the season, is starting to look himself again. Conor Laverty was excellent, continually finding time and space, and his brilliant run and fisted point really should have clinched the result.
Connaire Harrison took his goal expertly and it was a pity that his only real mistake led fairly quickly to their second goal shortly afterwards. Benny did not score but switched effectively between midfield and full forward while regularly winning balls when double marked. Donal O'Hare was man of the match, and nine points from nine shots, five from play, tells its own story.
Of the subs, Jerome Johnston is on the small side but has pace and determination, while Eoin McCartan and Shea McArdle saw little of the ball in the closing stages.
Good summary MR. However you glossed over the performance of Coulter. He was immense. iMHO shields is the best full/corner back in Ireland over the last 5-6 years apart from Marc Sé and Coulter won EVERY ball in front of him.
Excellent game today in Newry. Very enjoyable.
Down very unlucky to lose. A tremendous performance from all involved.
Agree with 5 Sams in that Benny was brilliant. Id go as far to say that it was one of the best performances I've seen from him in terms of pure ball winning ability.
Very hard to fault anyone else as they all had their moments. Mayo will be a tough gig but a Down win is very much a possibility.
On a sidenote, one player I saw on the bench today that I hoped would have got game time was Kilcoo's Darragh O'Hanlon. He is exactly the type of player that would fit into the current system.
Best team lost today, although we mixed the sublime with the ridiculous. It's not often you see Kerrigan and O'Connor both being taken off so some credit to a much maligned defence must be given.
Only for a goalkeeping error we'd have won and it was a sickening way to lose the game but there was much to take heart from.
Couple of negatives were the performance of Cunningham in goals (who up to today has played very well and looked very assured) but perhaps I am being too harsh on him and the subbing of Donal O'Hare and his replacement, I have no idea what that was supposed to achieve.
I think we'll stay up.
Quote from: DownFanatic on March 03, 2013, 10:24:06 PM
Excellent game today in Newry. Very enjoyable.
Down very unlucky to lose. A tremendous performance from all involved.
Agree with 5 Sams in that Benny was brilliant. Id go as far to say that it was one of the best performances I've seen from him in terms of pure ball winning ability.
Very hard to fault anyone else as they all had their moments. Mayo will be a tough gig but a Down win is very much a possibility.
On a sidenote, one player I saw on the bench today that I hoped would have got game time was Kilcoo's Darragh O'Hanlon. He is exactly the type of player that would fit into the current system.
Top class footballer with an excellent attitude I believe and he would be playing if his name was Mc Cartan or Johnston. I can't believe that in this day and age that people are so blinkered to the extent of putting on relatives ahead of those who can do a much better job.
Think Ohare was injured No1, seen him stretching his calf a couple of times before coming off.
Ach Jesus lineball are we back to that old chestnut, thought we had finished with that a while back
I thought that too but when there are better options on the bench rather than resorting to siblings, what are we to believe? Eoin doesn't train with the squad, Jerome trains with U.21's, surely we have better options in Ryan Kelly or Danny Savage?
Benny has high standards and will not be happy that he had a decent chance inside the small square and a relatively easy shot in front of the posts in the space of a couple of minutes in the first half without scoring from either. However, his ball winning ability against top class defenders was exceptional, his fitness is improving and his overall display was outstanding.
Danny Savage had a run out in Donegal in the last game, but did not look ready for it yet. While Ryan Kelly and Darragh O'Hanlon have the ability, size may be an issue.
If we can get Darren O'Hagan, Dan Gordon, Danny Hughes, Liam Doyle, Conor Garvey and Declan Rooney fit again in the short term, our squad will have a much more solid look.
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 03, 2013, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on March 03, 2013, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 03, 2013, 08:11:23 PM
really frustrating result but an encouraging performance. to score 1-17 against cork and still lose is hard to take. donal o hare was brilliant. aiden carr and ryan boyle also stood out in a good team performance.
the only downside for me was some baffling subsitutions. how shea mc ardle jerome johston and eoin mc cartan are ahead of ryan kelly and arthur mc conville in the pecking order is anbodys guess. none of the above mentioned subs really made any impact.
encouraging signs in defeat but still hard to take.
You are right Sheedy. We have a weak bench. Need the the two Dans &@ Ambrose back
plus connor garvey and darren o hagan.
Could include Mcveigh in that. will he be back between the sticks sat night. Young cunningham has been very good but yesterday may not have done much for his confidence.
Quote from: Line Ball on March 03, 2013, 10:44:27 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on March 03, 2013, 10:24:06 PM
Excellent game today in Newry. Very enjoyable.
Down very unlucky to lose. A tremendous performance from all involved.
Agree with 5 Sams in that Benny was brilliant. Id go as far to say that it was one of the best performances I've seen from him in terms of pure ball winning ability.
Very hard to fault anyone else as they all had their moments. Mayo will be a tough gig but a Down win is very much a possibility.
On a sidenote, one player I saw on the bench today that I hoped would have got game time was Kilcoo's Darragh O'Hanlon. He is exactly the type of player that would fit into the current system.
Top class footballer with an excellent attitude I believe and he would be playing if his name was Mc Cartan or Johnston. I can't believe that in this day and age that people are so blinkered to the extent of putting on relatives ahead of those who can do a much better job.
Totally agree with all above. It's not right and only going to cause problems for the players favoured when they are seriously punching above their weight. Darragh is the best young player about at present but being held back despicably in my opinion due not having the name. Nepotism has always been a problem in our county but it's becoming blatantly wrong.
Darragh O'Hanlon, Jerome Johnston, Ryan Johnston, and Paul Devlin are all talented enough to play for the county and I would not be surprised if in a few years time they made up the entire half forward line. But for now they are physically immature and need a lot of building up to make county level. It was wrong to bring Johnston on. Shay McCradle was worth a try because he is fast and skillful but also plays high up the pitch where physical strength is less vital. But we should have put on big Arthur and used him as a target man to push the Cork defense back. With Benny, Harrison, and Arthur on the pitch we would have had a full-forward line that could battle for the ball in the closing stages.
While applauding the team we cannot overlook that we shipped 21 points. OK there were three goals that came out of nothing really but they all count. I'm not saying it was a bad defensive display but even a laps is enough to be punished. I firmly believe that if big Dan had been there at least one or two of the goals would not have been scored. I'm not in favour of this "When Danny, Dan, Ambrose...." sort of talk but the one player I expect to return and make an continued impact is Gordon. The others are all talented but age and injuries are catching up with them, they are the wrong side of 30. Dan is a couple of years younger and his injuries are not muscular or ligament. He is still a player we could factor in for 3 or 4 more years.
Quote from: PAULD123 on March 05, 2013, 01:13:09 PM
Darragh O'Hanlon, Jerome Johnston, Ryan Johnston, and Paul Devlin are all talented enough to play for the county and I would not be surprised if in a few years time they made up the entire half forward line. But for now they are physically immature and need a lot of building up to make county level. It was wrong to bring Johnston on. Shay McCradle was worth a try because he is fast and skillful but also plays high up the pitch where physical strength is less vital. But we should have put on big Arthur and used him as a target man to push the Cork defense back. With Benny, Harrison, and Arthur on the pitch we would have had a full-forward line that could battle for the ball in the closing stages.
While applauding the team we cannot overlook that we shipped 21 points. OK there were three goals that came out of nothing really but they all count. I'm not saying it was a bad defensive display but even a laps is enough to be punished. I firmly believe that if big Dan had been there at least one or two of the goals would not have been scored. I'm not in favour of this "When Danny, Dan, Ambrose...." sort of talk but the one player I expect to return and make an continued impact is Gordon. The others are all talented but age and injuries are catching up with them, they are the wrong side of 30. Dan is a couple of years younger and his injuries are not muscular or ligament. He is still a player we could factor in for 3 or 4 more years.
Completely off the mark on both counts...
Darragh O Hanlon is in good enough condition physically to be making the breakthrough now. He is also talented enough to make the breakthrough now. He is much more developed than Jerome Johnson for example. You cant put four players in the same bracket and make a broad sweeping statement about them all.
Physical strength is less vital in the forward line? What era are you from? There is no longer any difference in the general physical makeup of any position on a gaelic football pitch except for possibly goalkeepers and midfielders.
Darragh certainly fit for this level - thought he was one of Kilcoo best performers throughout Ulster. Was out of the country at weekend - was Arthur on the bench - heard he was injured?
There is no doubt about Darragh O'Hanlon's ability and his physical condition, but, until he has a few games under his belt, we cannot be certain that he is tall enough for county football. While height is not everything, as his team-mate Conor Laverty has displayed, it definitely helps. Jerome Johnston looked on the small side taking when appearing as a sub against Cork, but he is a year older than O'Hanlon and was able to win the ball and use his pace. Although Ryan Johston probably has the best engine of the three of them, his physique is still developing. There was an expectation that Paul Devlin would join the panel when Jordanstown went out of the Sigerson, but there is no sign of him so far. Between them all, Kilcoo have quite a forward line in the making.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on March 05, 2013, 02:42:19 PM
There is no doubt about Darragh O'Hanlon's ability and his physical condition, but, until he has a few games under his belt, we cannot be certain that he is tall enough for county football. While height is not everything, as his team-mate Conor Laverty has displayed, it definitely helps. Jerome Johnston looked on the small side taking when appearing as a sub against Cork, but he is a year older than O'Hanlon and was able to win the ball and use his pace. Although Ryan Johston probably has the best engine of the three of them, his physique is still developing. There was an expectation that Paul Devlin would join the panel when Jordanstown went out of the Sigerson, but there is no sign of him so far. Between them all, Kilcoo have quite a forward line in the making.
What do you mean - will he grow taller after a few games - or are you talking in metaphors here? Can his exact height not be measured now?
And are you saying that Laverty's great performances to date are down to his height?
I'm lost.
Conor Laverty is one of the smallest players involved in county football these days, quite possibly the smallest overall, but he prospers through his range of skills and by thinking faster than anyone else. He made his debut for Down eight years ago, and was subsequently dropped by Ross Carr, so it has taken him a fair while to become an automatic selection.
Darragh O'Hanlon is taller than Laverty, but still not particularly big by the prevailing standards, so there is no guarantee that he will make the grade. He may get a run in the national league, but it might also be better if he contentrated on the under 21s this year. In other words, it is not a question of measuring his height but of assessing his performances.