http://www.gaeliclife.com/2012/11/27/exclusive-tyrone-boss-harte-wields-the-axe/
Few Armagh boys happy with that
To summarise the article
Out
Brian McGuigan
Owen Mulligan
John Devine
Davy Harte
Sean O'Neill
Aidan Cassidy
Niall McKenna
Damian McCaul
Stephen McNally
Peter Hughes
Ciaran Gervin
In
Conan Grugan
Barry Tierney
Ciaran McGinley
Danny McBride
Kevin Gallagher
Conor McAliskey
Dean McNally.
QuoteFew Armagh boys happy with that
As an Armagh person I would be perfectly happy if Harte keep a load of useless oul fellas on the Tyrone team.
Some of these 'axe' lists are full of mad hyperbole. Half the people listed under OUT. Will probably be on the match-day panel come January.
Copying Grimley I see ;)
Would wait on further confirmation before believing this. I wonder have some of the players just been rested for the McKenna Cup. Find it hard to believe he's dropped McGuigan, Mulligan, Harte, Cassidy, Sean O'Neill, McCarron, Devine and even McKenna. Maybe some of them have quit or are injured.
McCarron not mentioned but on ur list??
thanks for the memories lads
Mckenna cup gives players a chance to compete for league panel. Being dropped now will not necessarily mean dropped for championship. A lot of them boys will need a break and harte would know that.
Kildress man on the panel. Mickey has lost it.
i wonder how many on the "out" list are thinking - "oh no, im not playing in January"
and how many are thinking - "thank f**k im not playing in January"
Quote from: ONeill on November 27, 2012, 10:18:20 PM
Kildress man on the panel. Mickey has lost it.
[/
very good O'Neill, sharp as ever. Has he ever had a kildress man on the senior panel? I know he had a few at underage but can't recall any seniors- did Fran ever make the panel?
Wasn't there a lad Tracey who did a lot of scoring in the early 90s? Did he get a run-out?
Quote from: hardstation on November 27, 2012, 10:21:35 PM
The out list is a mixture of "done" and "don't cut it".
No biggie.
I don't think you could include McCarron in those brackets. He played some great football this year from half back.
Quote from: Syferus on November 27, 2012, 08:00:33 PM
Some of these 'axe' lists are full of mad hyperbole. Half the people listed under OUT. Will probably be on the match-day panel come January.
+1. Mulligan playing club championship so won't be in a panel anyway. Managers leaving older heads out of a pre-season tournament and giving rookies a go - shocker!
Journalists lose the run of themselves rather easily these days. I think it's the amount of media and twitter and all that carry on has their heads astray to the extent they wield axes, slam, slash and use hyperbole around anything that looks like a distant relation of a story. This is especially true in Ulster where the GAA media space is saturated and they're all in a tizzy fighting over crumbs. And all this slashing going on at the same time a bit of funding towards a plastic pitch is granted.
County AGM season soon. More nonsense ahead...Roll on xmas!!
Quote from: God14 on November 27, 2012, 08:46:49 PM
McCarron not mentioned but on ur list??
mccarrons name was in the original article and then he tweeted this:
'I have had a few phone calls their. And i would just like to say to all my followers not to listen to what Ciaran Woods has up on Gaeliclife '
and his name was removed!
I don't think journalists lose the run of themselves they just put a more dramatic spin on things for the benefit of the reader and the sport itself. What are GAA journos meant to say at this time of the year? - 'bugger all happening here, please turn the page to the soccer and rugby sections'.
No panel is picked in November so if any of those boys put their hands up for selection in 2013 I'm sure we'll see them again.
Good to see Ciaran Mc Ginley get a chance. He had a great year for Errigal. :)
Is McGinley a defender?
However i seen him start on the wing for errigal all this season...
Quote from: mattockranger on November 28, 2012, 05:05:04 PM
Is McGinley a defender?
However i seen him start on the wing for errigal all this season...
Can play wing half forward (IMO is best position) or as an attacking wing half back. Has a serious engine and is in great physical shape. If he keeps the head right could be the real deal. McGuckian seems to have got him playing as a team player where as before he was more of an individual.
Quote from: EC Unique on November 28, 2012, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: mattockranger on November 28, 2012, 05:05:04 PM
Is McGinley a defender?
However i seen him start on the wing for errigal all this season...
Can play wing half forward (IMO is best position) or as an attacking wing half back. Has a serious engine and is in great physical shape. If he keeps the head right could be the real deal. McGuckian seems to have got him playing as a team player where as before he was more of an individual.
I thought he was very quiet against Ballinderry. Young Mc Kinless done well on him and roughed him up rightly. In saying that I've only seen him the once. Seemed very pacey.
It'll be interesting to hear from Harte to see what his plans are. It sounds like there is no doubt that multiple players have been dropped. Maybe he felt he needed to make a statement to the squad that no one's guarenteed a place.
I've seen 3 or 4 Errigal games recently and not surprised by the 3 players that it says in the Irish News that are being considered. Felt at times Tierney was very good and possibly the most consistent of the 3. Plunkett Kane is also a very athletic player who I felt for a few years might be worth a look at. Grugan by all accounts had been going well for Omagh and had looked a good talent at minor level. Morgan seems to be a very good keeper.
Does anyone know much about Barry Tierney, Kevin Gallagher, Danny McBride or Dean McNally? Did they all play underage for Tyrone? What age are they and what position do they play for the club? I think both McNally and McBride are defenders. We definitely need to find a few good strong man markers.
I also feel some extra power is needed around midfield. Perhaps Warnock is being considered for here. I assumed Grugan at this level would be considered more for the half forward line. Warnock looked good to me at u21 level but possibly had stamina issues. Wouldn't have minded seeing McGinley back now but guess he wouldn't have been interested.
All in all I think its going to lead to a very interesting McKenna Cup for Tyrone. I actually enjoy seeing the new players during it.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on November 28, 2012, 09:27:47 PM
It'll be interesting to hear from Harte to see what his plans are. It sounds like there is no doubt that multiple players have been dropped. Maybe he felt he needed to make a statement to the squad that no one's guarenteed a place.
I've seen 3 or 4 Errigal games recently and not surprised by the 3 players that it says in the Irish News that are being considered. Felt at times Tierney was very good and possibly the most consistent of the 3. Plunkett Kane is also a very athletic player who I felt for a few years might be worth a look at. Grugan by all accounts had been going well for Omagh and had looked a good talent at minor level. Morgan seems to be a very good keeper.
Does anyone know much about Barry Tierney, Kevin Gallagher, Danny McBride or Dean McNally? Did they all play underage for Tyrone? What age are they and what position do they play for the club? I think both McNally and McBride are defenders. We definitely need to find a few good strong man markers.
I also feel some extra power is needed around midfield. Perhaps Warnock is being considered for here. I assumed Grugan at this level would be considered more for the half forward line. Warnock looked good to me at u21 level but possibly had stamina issues. Wouldn't have minded seeing McGinley back now but guess he wouldn't have been interested.
All in all I think its going to lead to a very interesting McKenna Cup for Tyrone. I actually enjoy seeing the new players during it.
Danny McBride is a midfielder.
Kevin Gallagher is also a midfielder, but a bit small for that role at County level I'd of thought. Can play half forward too when I've seen him, and I've never seen him have a bad game.
He obviously is trying to find new options around the middle. Is McBride big? A lot of the top teams now seem to have one big powerful midfielder. We don't have anyone for this role. Id say Harte is looking for very athletic strong running players which will allow us to compete with Donegal.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on November 28, 2012, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: God14 on November 27, 2012, 08:46:49 PM
McCarron not mentioned but on ur list??
mccarrons name was in the original article and then he tweeted this:
'I have had a few phone calls their. And i would just like to say to all my followers not to listen to what Ciaran Woods has up on Gaeliclife '
and his name was removed!
Does McCarron not work for the GL? Does he not talk to his colleagues? He wants to brush up on his grammar if wants to get writing articles :-\
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/20535903 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/20535903)
Tyrone boss Harte rings changes for 2013 squad
Tyrone boss Mickey Harte has heralded a new era for the county, confirming a major overhaul of his squad and the departure of 11 established players.
Fourteen new faces are in the 2013 squad while John Devine, Damien McCaul, Brian McGuigan, Owen Mulligan, Davy Harte and Sean O'Neill are left out. Stephen McNally, Niall McKenna, Aidan Cassidy, Peter Hughes and Ciaran Gervin are also omitted. Only five members of the 2003 All-Ireland title-winning squad remain. The are Stephen O'Neill, Conor Gormley, Sean Cavanagh, Pascal McConnell and Dermot Carlin. Mulligan's future remains unclear, with the attacker involved in Sunday's Ulster Club IFC final with his club Cookstown. Cathal McCarron, who had reportedly also been let go by the treble All-Ireland winning manager, remains a member of the 39-man squad. Niall Morgan of Edendork would appear to be a ready-made replacement for goalkeeper Devine, bringing a Stephen Cluxton-style asset with his ability to kick points from long range free kicks. The leading scorer in Tyrone's Division One, Conor McAliskey of Clonoe, is another recruit, as is Coalisland midfielder Plunkett Kane. Harte may take another look at both players in Saturday's league final. Ardboe's McGuigan clan will continue to be represented, with Brian's younger brother Shea given his opportunity to step up to the inter-county scene. Harte revealed last week that he had his eye on a number of players from his own club Errigal Ciaran, and he has included three - Ciaran McGinley, Tommy Canavan and Stefan Tierney. Omagh pair Conan Grugan and Barry Tierney have also received call-ups, as have Danny McBride of Strabane, Kevin Gallagher (Newtownstewart), Dean McNally (Kildress), Sean Warnock (Greencastle) and Tiernan McCann (Killyclogher).
Tyrone squad: Pascal McConnell (Newtonstewart), Aidan McCrory (Errigal Ciaran), Conor Clarke (Omagh), Cathal McCarron (Dromore), Mickey Murphy (Galbally), Mark Donnelly (Carrickmore), Colm Cavanagh (Moy), Conor Gormley (Carrickmore), PJ Quinn (Moortown), Mattie Donnelly (Trillick), Joe McMahon (Omagh), Peter Harte (Errigal Ciaran), Johnny Lafferty (Urney), Paddy McNeice (Coalisland), Ronan McNabb (Dromore), Dermot Carlin (Killyclogher), Martin Penrose (Carrickmore), Stephen O'Neill (Clann na nGael), Darren McCurry (Edendork), Ronan McNamee (Aghyaran), Ronan O'Neill (Omagh), Justin McMahon (Omagh), Kyle Coney (Ardboe), Sean Cavanagh (Moy), Stephen McNulty (Clonoe), Conan Grugan (Omagh), Barry Tierney (Omagh), Plunkett Kane (Coalisland), Ciaran McGinley (Errigal Ciaran), Danny McBride (Strabane), Kevin Gallagher (Newtownstewart), Conor McAliskey (Clonoe), Dean McNally (Kildress), Niall Morgan (Edendork), Stefan Tierney (Errigal Ciaran), Tommy Canavan (Errigal Ciaran), Shea McGuigan (Ardboe), Sean Warnock (Greencastle), Tiernan McCann (Killyclogher)
There's a few players on that who are imjured for the McKenna Cup. So it really does appear to be the squad he intends using for the year with a possible few late additions like Mulligan if he wants to play. Can't believe how many changes he's made. Would love to know what that story is with Sean O'Neill and Cassidy. Maybe they aren't available.
Surprised at mckennas exclusion, thought he was our next long term midfielder but he hasn't shown what I think he's capable of since underage level. The occasional glimpse with club & uni but not for 70 with Tyrone. Similar story with Cass but injury always seemed to stall him just when you thought he had grabbed a jersey. Mc caul also had the injury bug for too long but solid defender on his day. Never convinced by Sean red- poor marker & never seemed to read the game like our previous wing men- although their life was easy with mcguigan on hand to take ball from them at every opportunity. I'd say his antics at the end of the county final gave Harte & co all the insight they needed into his mentality. Felt that Maccers had many top attributes for that half back line but didn't get much game time last year. Petey hughes always gave everything & started last year very well until coming off v Kildare- not really seen again. Mulligan if he has the desire to be a bit part player will probably slot in when cookstown are finished. Heard from an errigal man that Devine & Harte decided a few weeks back that they were wrapping up their county careers & he seemed to know that mcguigan was doing the same. As for the new recruits- if they keep developing then it's exciting times. Many of them have really stepped up as senior footballers within the county in this yrs leagues & championships.
With Clarke, Justy, joey, RoneyO & Grugan, Omagh are feeding the county team with some serious talent. Unlike Mugsy I can't wait to get back on the road with the McKenna cup.
Quote from: TY14ED on November 28, 2012, 10:56:58 PM
Surprised at mckennas exclusion, thought he was our next long term midfielder but he hasn't shown what I think he's capable of since underage level. The occasional glimpse with club & uni but not for 70 with Tyrone. Similar story with Cass but injury always seemed to stall him just when you thought he had grabbed a jersey. Mc caul also had the injury bug for too long but solid defender on his day. Never convinced by Sean red- poor marker & never seemed to read the game like our previous wing men- although their life was easy with mcguigan on hand to take ball from them at every opportunity. I'd say his antics at the end of the county final gave Harte & co all the insight they needed into his mentality. Felt that Maccers had many top attributes for that half back line but didn't get much game time last year. Petey hughes always gave everything & started last year very well until coming off v Kildare- not really seen again. Mulligan if he has the desire to be a bit part player will probably slot in when cookstown are finished. Heard from an errigal man that Devine & Harte decided a few weeks back that they were wrapping up their county careers & he seemed to know that mcguigan was doing the same. As for the new recruits- if they keep developing then it's exciting times. Many of them have really stepped up as senior footballers within the county in this yrs leagues & championships.
With Clarke, Justy, joey, RoneyO & Grugan, Omagh are feeding the county team with some serious talent. Unlike Mugsy I can't wait to get back on the road with the McKenna cup.
Care to elaborate for a curious (nosey) Derry man?? ;)
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on November 28, 2012, 10:19:35 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/20535903 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/20535903)
Tyrone boss Harte rings changes for 2013 squad
Tyrone boss Mickey Harte has heralded a new era for the county, confirming a major overhaul of his squad and the departure of 11 established players.
Fourteen new faces are in the 2013 squad while John Devine, Damien McCaul, Brian McGuigan, Owen Mulligan, Davy Harte and Sean O'Neill are left out. Stephen McNally, Niall McKenna, Aidan Cassidy, Peter Hughes and Ciaran Gervin are also omitted. Only five members of the 2003 All-Ireland title-winning squad remain. The are Stephen O'Neill, Conor Gormley, Sean Cavanagh, Pascal McConnell and Dermot Carlin. Mulligan's future remains unclear, with the attacker involved in Sunday's Ulster Club IFC final with his club Cookstown. Cathal McCarron, who had reportedly also been let go by the treble All-Ireland winning manager, remains a member of the 39-man squad. Niall Morgan of Edendork would appear to be a ready-made replacement for goalkeeper Devine, bringing a Stephen Cluxton-style asset with his ability to kick points from long range free kicks. The leading scorer in Tyrone's Division One, Conor McAliskey of Clonoe, is another recruit, as is Coalisland midfielder Plunkett Kane. Harte may take another look at both players in Saturday's league final. Ardboe's McGuigan clan will continue to be represented, with Brian's younger brother Shea given his opportunity to step up to the inter-county scene. Harte revealed last week that he had his eye on a number of players from his own club Errigal Ciaran, and he has included three - Ciaran McGinley, Tommy Canavan and Stefan Tierney. Omagh pair Conan Grugan and Barry Tierney have also received call-ups, as have Danny McBride of Strabane, Kevin Gallagher (Newtownstewart), Dean McNally (Kildress), Sean Warnock (Greencastle) and Tiernan McCann (Killyclogher).
Tyrone squad: Pascal McConnell (Newtonstewart), Aidan McCrory (Errigal Ciaran), Conor Clarke (Omagh), Cathal McCarron (Dromore), Mickey Murphy (Galbally), Mark Donnelly (Carrickmore), Colm Cavanagh (Moy), Conor Gormley (Carrickmore), PJ Quinn (Moortown), Mattie Donnelly (Trillick), Joe McMahon (Omagh), Peter Harte (Errigal Ciaran), Johnny Lafferty (Urney), Paddy McNeice (Coalisland), Ronan McNabb (Dromore), Dermot Carlin (Killyclogher), Martin Penrose (Carrickmore), Stephen O'Neill (Clann na nGael), Darren McCurry (Edendork), Ronan McNamee (Aghyaran), Ronan O'Neill (Omagh), Justin McMahon (Omagh), Kyle Coney (Ardboe), Sean Cavanagh (Moy), Stephen McNulty (Clonoe), Conan Grugan (Omagh), Barry Tierney (Omagh), Plunkett Kane (Coalisland), Ciaran McGinley (Errigal Ciaran), Danny McBride (Strabane), Kevin Gallagher (Newtownstewart), Conor McAliskey (Clonoe), Dean McNally (Kildress), Niall Morgan (Edendork), Stefan Tierney (Errigal Ciaran), Tommy Canavan (Errigal Ciaran), Shea McGuigan (Ardboe), Sean Warnock (Greencastle), Tiernan McCann (Killyclogher)
I thought Harte said last year when he named the squad for the McKenna that there was no such thing as a McKenna squad, just the 2012 squad. He did rest a few boys last time, but he only named 26 for 2012. The fact he's named a squad of 39 or so here, including injured lads indicates that this is it for 2013.
Looks like apart from McCarron, GL were on the money.
From what I hear those boys that haven't been named have had the door closed behind them, including Mugsy.
I look forward to Stephen O'Neill in 2012. I won't tire of the point-taking.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 28, 2012, 11:30:55 PM
I look forward to Stephen O'Neill in 2012. I won't tire of the point-taking.
Not much time left in this year for point taking.
2013 Tyrone will hardly get as handy a league programme as last year's woeful standard. Long term last year's breeze through the NFL didn't stand to them at all.
Certainly is going to be a very different Tyrone team. I think most the of the changes are understandable. Mugsy has been trying to get back to his best since 2008 when he was very much on the fringe of the AI winning team due to being out of form and shape. He has had some fine games since without ever having a really good sustained run of form. Great servant and superb player but probably a good time to call it a day. Davy Harte is another fine servant and a player who made the most of his talents but he hasn't been at his best for a while. McCaul and Cassidy as previously mentioned were two players who had terrible luck with injuries. Neither was able to really fulfill their potential for that reason. Brian McGuigan IMO would still be a great option from the bench but he has given enough to Tyrone down the years. Probably regrets coming back this summer.
The two that surprise me a little are McKenna, who I thought might kick on this year and claim a place, and Sean O'Neil, who has done a decent job when he played in recent years. In the case of McKenna in particular he is young enough to get back in. I am a little surprised Carlin kept his place in this cull given he has been around for a decade without ever nailing down his place but Mickey clearly feels he has something to offer.
An interesting few months ahead.
I notice Harry Og Conlon isn't on the squad list. I would have thought this is the year he would be included to get some experience being around the squad. Or has he not developed in the last year?
Quote from: PAULD123 on November 29, 2012, 09:30:07 AM
I notice Harry Og Conlon isn't on the squad list. I would have thought this is the year he would be included to get some experience being around the squad. Or has he not developed in the last year?
There are better midfielders in Tyrone at the minute.
Did Stephen McNulty not leave the squad last year of his own accord, due to lack of opportunities, surprised hes back, especially at his age and having sat on a bench for 2 years already?
A good year in 2013 will be to retain Div 1 status and hopefully still be in the championship at the q/f stage. A lot of the new call ups are good solid club players and no doubt deserve a run out in the McKenna Cup, I do also believe though that there are players in club football as good if not better than some of the lads called up. I also believe that it would be impossible to tell if a lad has what it takes from being involved for only two months with the county set-up. I also know that Mickey has a very difficult job in getting some lads to join the panel as they are reluctant to be bench warmers, to miss matches for their club and to commit to the training regime.
"damned if he does and damned if he doesn't" springs to mind when i look at the transformation Mickey Harte has made to the Tyrone Panel. He was given some rare abuse for not bringing some of those players on earlier than now, and now that 12 players have been replaced he could easily suffer some persecution for what could be seen, in Tyrone terms anyway, as wholesale change.
Personally, I think the squad looks pretty strong - based on what we know about some players, and the reputation of others.
Sean Cavanagh looked in the shape of his career when he played against Donegal earlier this month - another injury similar to the last 2, could possibly see a premature end to his career, so i would imagine he will be wanting to put in the performance of his career this year. And i think he would still have that in him.
I was chatting to Stephen O'Neill a few weeks ago, and he is all too aware of the pressure coming from the younger players, which he sees as motivation to drive on again this year - and i for one would be glad to see him back to his best.
Mulligan may well have his appetite renewed with all the Club football he is getting - I think there is another year in him, and i wouldnt be surprised to see him back for another year.
There is definitely some brilliant talent coming through across most positions, all the way from Morgan as keeper.
It's hard to know if we have an embarrassment of riches or not - we will certainly be tested in the NFL by Donegal, Kerry, Dublin and the rest. But i'd rather be in this position than that of some of the other counties. I really cant wait for the season to start - looking forward to the mckenna cup, more than the mckennas are.
progress would be a good finish in Division 1, which i think we are capable of. A good run in the Ulster - and that would include beating Donegal - which i think we are capable of. Then after that? Playing late into August, would be fine with me
Poor squad, no chance against Donegal and wont go far in back door! Out in July 8)
Must admit ... in a clear out there are 2,or 3 names that are over the hill still there, and some of the younger players being replaced by less experienced and not as good versions of themselves. Will be tough year for tyrone.
Quote from: rrhf on November 30, 2012, 07:00:10 AM
Must admit ... in a clear out there are 2,or 3 names that are over the hill still there, and some of the younger players being replaced by less experienced and not as good versions of themselves. Will be tough year for tyrone.
You have to keep some level of experience in the squad. And being surrounded by younger players may revitalise a couple of the older lads. A bigger problem is your second last line. Can these guys be anything like the players they are replacing. To date they've been a long way off it. Likes of SON have nothing to prove to anyone
Quote from: rrhf on November 30, 2012, 07:00:10 AM
Must admit ... in a clear out there are 2,or 3 names that are over the hill still there, and some of the younger players being replaced by less experienced and not as good versions of themselves. Will be tough year for tyrone.
I thought you'd be happy to see the introduction of fresh talent. Surprised to see Cassidy and Sean O'Neill go. Not so surprised with a lot of the other players that have gone.
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I too am disappointed that Niall has been discarded - I am hoping that he will still have an opportunity to rejoin the panel, if he works his through the next few months. I am pretty sure that there is a reason for his exclusion - most o the decisions made by the management team tend to be vindicated over time.
I knwo you have mentioned skill set and passion for tyrone, though Im not sure how much that counts for, if the player isnt putting the effort in, in training? Maybe thats the problem?
Id love to see him back in there, but for now, its up to Niall to prove that he is worth a place with both his college and club. I hope he does
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
I hope it's a hiatus -- do you not remember his Minor All-Ireland exploits?
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
Not at senior but he was a revelation at minor and schools. Where does it all go wrong? Hundreds of young lads fall into this category. Colm is another example, What was that about him tearing Ardboe apart from FF? Took years for him to become a IC player. I have a feeling Ronan O'Neill is going to go the same way, a talented footballer but is suddenly expected to make it after people see a year of him at minor level.
It's time the wider GAA fanbase stop placing such emphasis on minor and schools level as indications of future success. For every Joe Canning there are twenty lads who don't live up to the expectations people have of them. I think we need to focus on college and U-21 level as the real acid test for being worth a county squad place. That is certainly how Cork, Dublin and Donegal measure the merits of upcoming players.
I know you will say that no-one stands out for the U-21's but the ones who do should be focused on. Niall was promoted to the senior ranks prematurely, at a time of that didn't suit his development as a player. Now he has to labour under the unfair assessment of "underachiever" and "couldn't cut it". Probably down the line if he does show potential as a IC footballer the same boyo's who labelled him a future superstar will tell you "he couldn't make it the last time" and he "doesn't have the stuff". We should give these young lads a chance after minor, I don't believe in this action of throwing them straight into senior squads.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 02, 2012, 12:21:34 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
I hope it's a hiatus -- do you not remember his Minor All-Ireland exploits?
As I've said I don't think Minor should be emphasized as heavily as it is around here. Alot of those lads haven't exploded onto the scene the way people thought they would and it runs across the board for all counties and in both codes.
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
He played on the same minor side as Peter Harte. Both players stood out at that level but Peter has pushed on where as McKenna has not taken the chance yet. I have seen him a few times for Tyrone seniors but he did not really impress. He will get another chance at some stage but needs to step it up to another level. I think he still has not developed physically enough for the area of the pitch in which he aims to play.
Quote from: EC Unique on December 02, 2012, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
He played on the same minor side as Peter Harte. Both players stood out at that level but Peter has pushed on where as McKenna has not taken the chance yet. I have seen him a few times for Tyrone seniors but he did not really impress. He will get another chance at some stage but needs to step it up to another level. I think he still has not developed physically enough for the area of the pitch in which he aims to play.
Don't often disagree with O'Neill but I think we have seen in club & uni games what Niall is capable of doing. rrhf..development policies...that's just rubbish. A quick word with any of the Tyrone squad from the last few years & you can quickly determine that Nialls only issue his is attitude. Unfortunately it's not the attitude of someone that wants to be Tyrones next midfielder. It's not that he has a bad attitude or is disruptive, it's just that he doesn't want it enough. Fact.
Quote from: TY14ED on December 02, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on December 02, 2012, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
He played on the same minor side as Peter Harte. Both players stood out at that level but Peter has pushed on where as McKenna has not taken the chance yet. I have seen him a few times for Tyrone seniors but he did not really impress. He will get another chance at some stage but needs to step it up to another level. I think he still has not developed physically enough for the area of the pitch in which he aims to play.
Don't often disagree with O'Neill but I think we have seen in club & uni games what Niall is capable of doing. rrhf..development policies...that's just rubbish. A quick word with any of the Tyrone squad from the last few years & you can quickly determine that Nialls only issue his is attitude. Unfortunately it's not the attitude of someone that wants to be Tyrones next midfielder. It's not that he has a bad attitude or is disruptive, it's just that he doesn't want it enough. Fact.
It's easy to sit behind a pseudonym and deride an amateurs players attitude on a national forum from second hand info. Fact.
Quote from: trileacman on December 02, 2012, 07:40:28 PM
Quote from: TY14ED on December 02, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on December 02, 2012, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
He played on the same minor side as Peter Harte. Both players stood out at that level but Peter has pushed on where as McKenna has not taken the chance yet. I have seen him a few times for Tyrone seniors but he did not really impress. He will get another chance at some stage but needs to step it up to another level. I think he still has not developed physically enough for the area of the pitch in which he aims to play.
Don't often disagree with O'Neill but I think we have seen in club & uni games what Niall is capable of doing. rrhf..development policies...that's just rubbish. A quick word with any of the Tyrone squad from the last few years & you can quickly determine that Nialls only issue his is attitude. Unfortunately it's not the attitude of someone that wants to be Tyrones next midfielder. It's not that he has a bad attitude or is disruptive, it's just that he doesn't want it enough. Fact.
It's easy to sit behind a pseudonym and deride an amateurs players attitude on a national forum from second hand info. Fact.
Strange that you bite when a poster questions his attitude but not when other posters question his ability. The second hand info you refer to came first hand from a number of members of previous Tyrone squads. But anyway, for the record, i think said player is a fine talent, a great lad & will hopefully push on to wear 8 or 9 regularly for Tyrone.
Quote from: TY14ED on December 02, 2012, 08:03:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 02, 2012, 07:40:28 PM
Quote from: TY14ED on December 02, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on December 02, 2012, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
He played on the same minor side as Peter Harte. Both players stood out at that level but Peter has pushed on where as McKenna has not taken the chance yet. I have seen him a few times for Tyrone seniors but he did not really impress. He will get another chance at some stage but needs to step it up to another level. I think he still has not developed physically enough for the area of the pitch in which he aims to play.
Don't often disagree with O'Neill but I think we have seen in club & uni games what Niall is capable of doing. rrhf..development policies...that's just rubbish. A quick word with any of the Tyrone squad from the last few years & you can quickly determine that Nialls only issue his is attitude. Unfortunately it's not the attitude of someone that wants to be Tyrones next midfielder. It's not that he has a bad attitude or is disruptive, it's just that he doesn't want it enough. Fact.
It's easy to sit behind a pseudonym and deride an amateurs players attitude on a national forum from second hand info. Fact.
Strange that you bite when a poster questions his attitude but not when other posters question his ability. The second hand info you refer to came first hand from a number of members of previous Tyrone squads. But anyway, for the record, i think said player is a fine talent, a great lad & will hopefully push on to wear 8 or 9 regularly for Tyrone.
I dont see the question being around the attitude of the amateur...i think everyone wants NMC to be successful, andfrom most performances at the minor and schools levels, he showed great potential. his potential hasnt been realised in the last few years, and many would suggest that its not a lack of ability rather effort. I hope he proves me wrong - seems like a great lad, and possibly burdened by his fathers reputation - but when he plays well, he is a joy to watch
Quote from: TY14ED on December 02, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on December 02, 2012, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
He played on the same minor side as Peter Harte. Both players stood out at that level but Peter has pushed on where as McKenna has not taken the chance yet. I have seen him a few times for Tyrone seniors but he did not really impress. He will get another chance at some stage but needs to step it up to another level. I think he still has not developed physically enough for the area of the pitch in which he aims to play.
Don't often disagree with O'Neill but I think we have seen in club & uni games what Niall is capable of doing. rrhf..development policies...that's just rubbish. A quick word with any of the Tyrone squad from the last few years & you can quickly determine that Nialls only issue his is attitude. Unfortunately it's not the attitude of someone that wants to be Tyrones next midfielder. It's not that he has a bad attitude or is disruptive, it's just that he doesn't want it enough. Fact.
No... opinion.
I hugely doubt yoiur point but am not close enough as I hope you are when you are coming out with it. What I have seen is the best young lads being held out of the majority of club football for the last few years and some are apparently not achieving their potential and my arguement is that it is because of that reason. Lads need football to develop not squad training / in house matches. The Tyrone senior intercounty squad should not be a development squad but a place for the finished article and those who are very close to being there.
I'd agree that Niall Mckenna has had some difficulty with the step up from underage to senior and midfield is not an easy place to stake your claim when doing so. I've no doubt that his talent will see him back again.
What is the story with Cassidy tho? I thought he was maturing into the real deal.
Quote from: rrhf on December 03, 2012, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: TY14ED on December 02, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on December 02, 2012, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 01, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 01, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
The loss of an undoubted prospect like mc Kenna a lad with his skill set who eats sleeps and breathes Tyrone football and has followed every instruction given over the last 4 years to help him develop could say more about our development policies within Tyrone football as they do about the discarded lads.
I've never seen anything from McKenna to suggest he was worth his place. Have you?
He played on the same minor side as Peter Harte. Both players stood out at that level but Peter has pushed on where as McKenna has not taken the chance yet. I have seen him a few times for Tyrone seniors but he did not really impress. He will get another chance at some stage but needs to step it up to another level. I think he still has not developed physically enough for the area of the pitch in which he aims to play.
Don't often disagree with O'Neill but I think we have seen in club & uni games what Niall is capable of doing. rrhf..development policies...that's just rubbish. A quick word with any of the Tyrone squad from the last few years & you can quickly determine that Nialls only issue his is attitude. Unfortunately it's not the attitude of someone that wants to be Tyrones next midfielder. It's not that he has a bad attitude or is disruptive, it's just that he doesn't want it enough. Fact.
No... opinion.
I hugely doubt yoiur point but am not close enough as I hope you are when you are coming out with it. What I have seen is the best young lads being held out of the majority of club football for the last few years and some are apparently not achieving their potential and my arguement is that it is because of that reason. Lads need football to develop not squad training / in house matches. The Tyrone senior intercounty squad should not be a development squad but a place for the finished article and those who are very close to being there.
Based on this logic surely surely your glad he's not on the panel for the incoming year? Mickey Harte has a tough job in Tyrone cause he will be given abuse no matter what he does. He has delivered an All Ireland minor title, 2 All Ireland u21 titles, 3 senior All Irelands, multiple ulsters at every level and an Ulster club title. I think its fair to say he has the ability to bring players through.
This was evident from 2003. And despite people saying he was too loyal by 2008 he had a very different team and some players who took a few years to develop were now ready and given their chance (Penrose, Tommy McGuigan, McCullagh etc). Last year Peter Harte, Mattie Donnelly, Ronan McNabb and Conor Clarke have shown that Harte will play young players if they prove to be good enough for the first team. Mark Donnelly and Colm Cavanagh have also proved that it can take a few years developing in the panel before your ready to start. I hate when people argue to play young players just for the sake of it, that won't help anyone. They should be made earn their place like everyone else. I'd rather see the best 15 on the field for every championship game no matter about age.
McKenna was a very good minor and I personally thought he was destined for big things. But he has yet to fully deliver on his potential. Unlike some other players in the panel he has been given plenty of opportunities in the last few years. I just don't think he has done enough in games to justify his selection (certainly on the starting team). What he does he does well but I just don't think he has done enough in games. Harte has obviously did his best to bring him through but like many other underage stars throughout the country he has yet to make it. Sport isn't an exact science and different players will react differently to the step up. Hopefully it will work out for the best for McKenna to go back to his club and hopefully over the next few years he will continue to improve and come back a better player.
agree with a lot of that but your very valid point is negated by the crap you talk at the start.
I'm talking crap by pointing to Mickey Harte's track record both in terms of delivering success and bringing players through and giving examples of both?
you use the term abuse..not relevant.
That wasn't a reference to what you said rather a general comment about what he puts up with from a section of Tyrone supporters. Could easily substitute the word for criticism and my points still stand in my opinion.
More paranoia??
Tyrone report rekindles Kerry rivalry
By John Fogarty
Tuesday, December 04, 2012
Tyrone secretary Dominic McCaughey stoked the flames of the county's rivalry with Kerry in his annual report.
The Red Hand official expressed shock at some of the Kerry players' elation following their third-round qualifier victory over Mickey Harte's side in Killarney last July.
Without mentioning Paul Galvin, McCaughey made reference to the former footballer of the year's emotional post-match interview with TV3, while making cryptic comments about Kerry's on-field behaviour.
"This game provided Kerry with the opportunity to exact revenge for defeats which many of its supporters and players had found it difficult to cope with," he wrote.
"Before a massive attendance — for a qualifier — of over 24,000 patrons, the players in green and gold showed that they would not be accepting a fourth championship defeat by the Red Hand county.
"Their desire to win was exemplified by urgency, intensity, skill, physicality and some other features not normally associated with Kerry players.
"Their ease of victory was accommodated by an out-of-sorts Tyrone side that failed to develop any fluency or pattern to its play, accompanied by a blunt forward division that could only manage a single point from play.
"In addition, both players and management were deeply frustrated by what they considered inadequate refereeing that lacked consistency and included some serious errors. When the final whistle sounded, Kerry had a 10-point winning margin that was greeted, amazingly, with tears of joy by some players and wild scenes of jubilation among highly vociferous supporters."
RTÉ come in for heavy criticism from both McCaughey and county PRO Damian Harvey with the former suggesting the station's Liveline programme may have prejudiced Tyrone club Derrytresk in their disciplinary case following the ugly All-Ireland club JFC semi-final against Dromid Pearses in January.
Arising from the Portlaoise game, Derrytresk had seven players suspended, received a €2,500 fine (after appeal) and were banned from representing Tyrone for five years.
"The Derrytresk players and officials accepted that they were to blame for some of the misbehaviour that occurred on the pitch and met the charges laid before them in a responsible manner, with the inevitable outcome of lengthy suspensions being imposed," McCaughey stated.
"However, the club was deeply disappointed that others who were involved in the fracas that took place were not dealt with in a similar manner. It was felt that some sections of the media took a less than impartial view of the acts of indiscipline in Portlaoise, with one broadcasting company even devoting part of a live phone-in programme to the junior championship game, which may well have jeopardised the club's right to a fair disciplinary hearing."
Meanwhile, Harvey confirmed nobody from Harte's team or management has any inclination of cooperating with RTÉ until the national broadcasters talk to Harte. Their decision dates back to a segment on RTÉ Radio One's The John Murray Show six months after the murder of Harte's daughter Michaela last year, a comedy sketch which RTÉ have insisted they apologised for. "My opinion as of 12 months ago is the decision not to communicate with RTÉ should remain the prerogative of the Tyrone senior football management team and players until RTÉ as an organisation take responsibility and have the decency to speak to Mickey Harte directly.
I see that Mickey Harte says he received a text message from Owen Mulligan at the end of this year's championship campaign informing him that he was retiring. He seems a bit annoyed that Mugsy came out last week and said that Harte hadn't contacted him to see whether he was going to play this year. Communication levels not good there.
Quote from: Declan on December 04, 2012, 03:05:37 PM
More paranoia??
Tyrone report rekindles Kerry rivalry
By John Fogarty
Tuesday, December 04, 2012
Tyrone secretary Dominic McCaughey stoked the flames of the county's rivalry with Kerry in his annual report.
The Red Hand official expressed shock at some of the Kerry players' elation following their third-round qualifier victory over Mickey Harte's side in Killarney last July.
Without mentioning Paul Galvin, McCaughey made reference to the former footballer of the year's emotional post-match interview with TV3, while making cryptic comments about Kerry's on-field behaviour.
"This game provided Kerry with the opportunity to exact revenge for defeats which many of its supporters and players had found it difficult to cope with," he wrote.
"Before a massive attendance — for a qualifier — of over 24,000 patrons, the players in green and gold showed that they would not be accepting a fourth championship defeat by the Red Hand county.
"Their desire to win was exemplified by urgency, intensity, skill, physicality and some other features not normally associated with Kerry players.
"Their ease of victory was accommodated by an out-of-sorts Tyrone side that failed to develop any fluency or pattern to its play, accompanied by a blunt forward division that could only manage a single point from play.
"In addition, both players and management were deeply frustrated by what they considered inadequate refereeing that lacked consistency and included some serious errors. When the final whistle sounded, Kerry had a 10-point winning margin that was greeted, amazingly, with tears of joy by some players and wild scenes of jubilation among highly vociferous supporters."
RTÉ come in for heavy criticism from both McCaughey and county PRO Damian Harvey with the former suggesting the station's Liveline programme may have prejudiced Tyrone club Derrytresk in their disciplinary case following the ugly All-Ireland club JFC semi-final against Dromid Pearses in January.
Arising from the Portlaoise game, Derrytresk had seven players suspended, received a €2,500 fine (after appeal) and were banned from representing Tyrone for five years.
"The Derrytresk players and officials accepted that they were to blame for some of the misbehaviour that occurred on the pitch and met the charges laid before them in a responsible manner, with the inevitable outcome of lengthy suspensions being imposed," McCaughey stated.
"However, the club was deeply disappointed that others who were involved in the fracas that took place were not dealt with in a similar manner. It was felt that some sections of the media took a less than impartial view of the acts of indiscipline in Portlaoise, with one broadcasting company even devoting part of a live phone-in programme to the junior championship game, which may well have jeopardised the club's right to a fair disciplinary hearing."
Meanwhile, Harvey confirmed nobody from Harte's team or management has any inclination of cooperating with RTÉ until the national broadcasters talk to Harte. Their decision dates back to a segment on RTÉ Radio One's The John Murray Show six months after the murder of Harte's daughter Michaela last year, a comedy sketch which RTÉ have insisted they apologised for. "My opinion as of 12 months ago is the decision not to communicate with RTÉ should remain the prerogative of the Tyrone senior football management team and players until RTÉ as an organisation take responsibility and have the decency to speak to Mickey Harte directly.
Jesus . . . is there any need for that?!
Quote from: mackers on December 07, 2012, 02:11:03 PM
I see that Mickey Harte says he received a text message from Owen Mulligan at the end of this year's championship campaign informing him that he was retiring. He seems a bit annoyed that Mugsy came out last week and said that Harte hadn't contacted him to see whether he was going to play this year. Communication levels not good there.
I thought Mugsy saying he's not the sort of fella you would go for a pint with was class!! Chalk and cheese those men.
What more communication do you want? Facebook, Twitter? Mulligan tells I News on Monday he will ring Harte on Wednesday. Harte tells said paper on Friday he received said phonecall as mentioned in press by Mulligan on Monday and referred to retirement text message sent in August by Mugsy. My take on this was that Mulligan had retired himself last year so in a way that was that for Mickey who had knew he had to slice through the panel anyway so in a way Mugsy was helping him make that decision, so it was up to Mulligan to reinstigate communication. Glad to see the door still open though as I would expect it would also be for the guys who have now officially been "dropped" if they were to improve their game and also any other form club players in Tyrone next year. Tyrone need form players not panel players.
Listen its silly season so I wouldnt pay too much heed.
Wish Tyrone County Board had spoken out about the hyperbole in Portlaoise at the time as who knows four lads may have been allowed to play in an All Ireland Final instead of sitting in the stand. The cheap antics of a bundle of buck edjuts who were so enraged that they hadn't reached All Ireland Final decided that as they couldn't win on the field that it was time to hit the airwaves and release footage of the incident. They made the case that they were out to highlight that this behaviour should not be tolerated (nor should fighting be tolerated by the authorities) whilst in actual fact they were so determined to derail our opportunity of winning the All Ireland that they actually incriminated themselves. The reality was this incident involved one mentor and three players from each team the remainder were peacemakers. The simple solution was ban wrongdoers and fine both clubs but instead the media which hunt/Brianwashing resulted in ridiculous suspensions. I have the greatest respect to Clonbur (who were absolute gentlemen) I think we would have beaten them had those players been available. Tyrone County board told the club to stay quiet and to deal with this by going down the proper channels and admit your wrondoing. This is what the club did and how were they treated they were slammed and pathetic Dromid laughed all the way to Kerry. Am I bitter about Dromid, well the simple answer is yes, I wouldn't be annoyed if I heard they folded I am also annoyed by the lack of support of our County Board at the time, the Kerry County Board had Dromid Pearses back almost immediately. Its nine months too late to have our back now lads! Rant over.