just reading according to new crime figures released by alan "londonderry" shatter show white collar crime has increased by a third and yet convictions have dropped by 66%. in fact 9 out of 10 white collar crimes committed in recent years have failed to result in a conviction. this flies in the face of the likes of truck drivers getting 4 years for bringing in a few fags while child molesters get 3mths suspended. every paper you lift has "justice" being dished out in a very irregular fashion. solicitors who embezzle your hard earned cash or 'doctor' your will to include themselves get struck off tut.. tut.. while lads with no tax get hammered. it doesn't make sense. have you seen any examples of this kind of thing
It is a total joke and it definitely seems to be getting worse!
Alan is probably more worried about how to defend his child killing friends in Israel than he is about such trivial items in Ireland
How do these figures get worked out - how do they know how much crime (white collar) has increased if not through conviction rates.
Can you provide the detailed crime figures that you're referring to Lawnseed?
Quote from: nifan on November 20, 2012, 08:37:09 AM
How do these figures get worked out - how do they know how much crime (white collar) has increased if not through conviction rates.
You don't need to have someone convicted of robbery to know your house has been broken into.
Of course you dont, but white collar crime is not always as evident as a break in to a house.
Does the lesser conviction rate mean that people are getting off or more people are being trialed for it, but that more of the accusations are unfounded.
I gathered from yesterday's radio news reports on this that it was based on convictions versus reported crimes.
Its not as if this is unique to Ireland. White collar crime is largely ignored throughout Western society.
Some amount of vague comments on this thread, no one has actually defined what white collar crimes are, let alone put forward any hard facts to suggest it is on the increase or any facts to suggest it is not being prosecuted to the full extent.
Quote from: NAG1 on November 20, 2012, 01:12:13 PM
Some amount of vague comments on this thread, no one has actually defined what white collar crimes are, let alone put forward any hard facts to suggest it is on the increase or any facts to suggest it is not being prosecuted to the full extent.
i can tell you that if the finegael minister for justice is confronted in the dail with figures that show hes not doing his job and those figures dont stand up then we wouldnt be reading it in the media or discussing it here. this is only one example of the failure of the irish justice system and the failure of those incharge to address the issue
On the 38th anniversary of the Birmingham Pub Bombs have the (real) per pertraters of this atrocity even been investigated?
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 21, 2012, 06:42:44 PM
On the 38th anniversary of the Birmingham Pub Bombs have the (real) per pertraters of this atrocity even been investigated?
Knowing what we know now about the various elements involved of the years and what went on with both sides and the British government running elements within both, perhaps its not in the interests of some to delve any further. Who knows who knew what before and after. They tried framing 6 innocents and were rumbled. The provos (against their normal protocol) denied it. Whoever did it, it was a disgrace and should never have happened. The whirlwind reaped by Birminghams Irish population was from what i hear was vile.
Well put MD, the government of the day and all succeeding ones have managed to have this tragic event pushed under the carpet. I think it is only now that the relatives of those who died and/or who were injured are starting to agitate for some answers to some very explosive questions.
The treatment meted out to a very frightened Irish community was indeed to use your term "vile", with the undoubted stars of the show being our friendly neighbourhood constabulary. The city was ready to explode that time and it was only the calm and reasonable words of Roy Jenkins then MP for Birmingham Stechford that stopped their being wholesale revenge attacks against Churches, Schools, Pubs and Clubs etc (even though there were incidents of this kind).
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 21, 2012, 08:30:46 PM
Well put MD, the government of the day and all succeeding ones have managed to have this tragic event pushed under the carpet. I think it is only now that the relatives of those who died and/or who were injured are starting to agitate for some answers to some very explosive questions.
The treatment meted out to a very frightened Irish community was indeed to use your term "vile", with the undoubted stars of the show being our friendly neighbourhood constabulary. The city was ready to explode that time and it was only the calm and reasonable words of Roy Jenkins then MP for Birmingham Stechford that stopped their being wholesale revenge attacks against Churches, Schools, Pubs and Clubs etc (even though there were incidents of this kind).
there must be something in the water around birmingham as all of the above treatment is now being dished out to young muslims and then they shrug their shoulders and wonder why they are being radicalised
Who are shrugging their shoulders?
The maltreatment of the Irish is completely different to that handed out to "young muslims". I've yet to see random attacks on Mosques, faith schools, restaurants and the like. Birmingham is a very multi cultural city and for the most part people of all the various nationalities and faiths get along together, as can be witnessed in most working, social and sporting environments. A lot of muslims (young and old) choose to opt out of this society and prefer their own way of life (nothing wrong with that until they think they're above the laws that everyone else lives by).
I'd doubt if there is a more racially tolerent city in this country than Birmingham.
Quote from: lawnseed on November 21, 2012, 09:16:18 PM
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 21, 2012, 08:30:46 PM
Well put MD, the government of the day and all succeeding ones have managed to have this tragic event pushed under the carpet. I think it is only now that the relatives of those who died and/or who were injured are starting to agitate for some answers to some very explosive questions.
The treatment meted out to a very frightened Irish community was indeed to use your term "vile", with the undoubted stars of the show being our friendly neighbourhood constabulary. The city was ready to explode that time and it was only the calm and reasonable words of Roy Jenkins then MP for Birmingham Stechford that stopped their being wholesale revenge attacks against Churches, Schools, Pubs and Clubs etc (even though there were incidents of this kind).
there must be something in the water around birmingham as all of the above treatment is now being dished out to young muslims and then they shrug their shoulders and wonder why they are being radicalised
What treatment of young muslims do you mean ? Arguably the black community would have more to complain about with regard to policing. I would say any radicalisation is more to do with US and UK foreign policy and the perceived slights against Islam that goes with the war for oil and defence contracts abroad coupled with low education and social depravation in the inner city areas. And i say perceived because if Iraq was christian and oil rich it would probably have gone the same way. There is a perception perhaps of the authorities giving muslim communities (which are highly ghettoised here) an easy ride due to fear of the race card being pulled. That wasnt really a consideration in the 70s.
the cops are harrassing the young muslims non stop. muslim taxi drivers are pulled over.. constantly maybe twice a day. in my experience birmingham is the only city in the uk where i got hassel because of where i'm from. irish hauliers trucks dread the place as they are singled out for special treatment.. not a great place
Quote from: lawnseed on November 21, 2012, 10:57:33 PM
the cops are harrassing the young muslims non stop. muslim taxi drivers are pulled over.. constantly maybe twice a day. in my experience birmingham is the only city in the uk where i got hassel because of where i'm from. irish hauliers trucks dread the place as they are singled out for special treatment.. not a great place
I dont see the harrassment of young Muslims at all, surely there would be much more of an outcry if this was going on. What sort of hassle did you get and in what area ?
I wonder has he a long snout and drives a Monaghan registered truck? ;)
Seriously, I know plenty of Irish hauliers and I've yet to hear ONE complain about "special treatment". Who gives you hassle because of where you come from? The cops? the locals?
I travel in taxis (private hire) quite a lot and in over 35 years I've yet to see a cop pull one of them. If you mean checking ALL taxis'/cabs to see if they are legal and are carrying the proper insurance I fail to see the problem (there is a big problem with opportunist drivers picking up fares in busy spots such as Broad Street, Brindley place etc). As for "young Moslems" getting non stop harrassment that is just not true.
When was the last time you were in Birmingham.........the seventies?
Or quite possibly never.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 22, 2012, 09:14:31 PM
Or quite possibly probably never.
Fixed that for you. :P
i live in sandwell, moved up to the west midlands in 2010 from london. london is more diverse, and from my own experiences, more tolerant. in fact, otherness is the norm if you choose you're friends wisely. you're whole circle of friends could be made up of outsiders and no one would bat an eyelid. whereas in the west midlands there's a fairly limited mix comparatively and attitudes can be suspect here too, even from the supposedly liberal middle classes... they'll think nothing of having a go at an irish accent and lace it with stereotypical irishisms. racism from some right wing, reactionary type i expect, but it comes as a surprise from a grauniad reader. now if you have the wherewithal to protect yourself against racist stereotypes, viewing it from the contexts it thrives in and also targets, then you can be more philosopical and have protection against the negative affects. but if you're vulnerable for example, and there tend to more vulnerable groups from poorer immigrants, racism cuts deep and is no joke because it aims to oppress and is successful too.
anyway, to say birmingham, or anywhere else is a haven for otherness is incorrect. that's not what those who write on racism, discrimination and oppression say, and it hasn't been my experience, nor anyone i know either.
http://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/61/27/20/PDF/The_Irish_in_Britain-Injustices_of_Recognition_.pdf
Quote from: cadence on November 23, 2012, 12:18:14 AM
i live in sandwell,
Black country folk can be a little insular.
Seriously though, no one is saying its perfect or anything close to it, i have had the usual slurs and insinuations over the years in the work place and outside of it. What do you do ? There is an inherent level of racism and stereotyping in every country and here it is ingrained. For example some people consider "taking the Mick" as a racial slur, yet it is so ingrained if you raised it in the work place they would look at you like you had two heads and you would be labelled a troublemaker. There is plenty of stereotyping towards the English or British on this board. You say London was more tolerant, but i would guess that would be very much dependent on where you were in London. Look at the level of racially motivated crime in London compared with the West Midlands.
Quote from: ziggy90 on November 22, 2012, 07:24:09 PM
I wonder has he a long snout and drives a Monaghan registered truck? ;)
Seriously, I know plenty of Irish hauliers and I've yet to hear ONE complain about "special treatment". Who gives you hassle because of where you come from? The cops? the locals?
I travel in taxis (private hire) quite a lot and in over 35 years I've yet to see a cop pull one of them pay for one. If you mean checking ALL taxis'/cabs to see if they are legal and are carrying the proper insurance I fail to see the problem (there is a big problem with opportunist drivers picking up fares in busy spots such as Broad Street, Brindley place etc). As for "young Moslems" getting non stop harrassment that is just not true.
When was the last time you were in Birmingham.........the seventies?
Fixed that for you.
Quote from: maddog on November 23, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
Black country folk can be a little insular.
I suppose it's understandable. There aren't that many of them living in the country.
Quote from: maddog on November 23, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
Quote from: cadence on November 23, 2012, 12:18:14 AM
i live in sandwell,
Black country folk can be a little insular.
Seriously though, no one is saying its perfect or anything close to it, i have had the usual slurs and insinuations over the years in the work place and outside of it. What do you do ? There is an inherent level of racism and stereotyping in every country and here it is ingrained. For example some people consider "taking the Mick" as a racial slur, yet it is so ingrained if you raised it in the work place they would look at you like you had two heads and you would be labelled a troublemaker. There is plenty of stereotyping towards the English or British on this board. You say London was more tolerant, but i would guess that would be very much dependent on where you were in London. Look at the level of racially motivated crime in London compared with the West Midlands.
i'm not saying anywhere is perfect, far from it. my point about london is that because it's so diverse, especially in the more deprived inner boroughs, that otherness has become very normal. when you have that level of diversity, the culture changes and it becomes easier to find otherness, others who might be perceived to be outsiders by the mainstream uk cultural majority. it's easier to make a life for yourself that can be made up by others like yourself, who are not from the cultural majority nor who have silly attitudes. birmingham does have tension issues between asians and the black population. from speaking to people form both groups, these issues seem stem quite a lot from internalising stereotypes about each other through racial and cultural superiority ideas taken from white uk cultural majority. a type of manifest destiny played out between oppressed groups. of course, taking on mainstream cultural beliefs is one of the ways discrimination develops, but london being the world city that it subverts mainstream culture hugley.
stats on racially motivated crimes can be misleading because the numbers that are recorded can depend upon whether police from a particular constabulary are under pressure politically to sort their shit out or not, or people from a particualr area do not trust the police to take the matter seriously such much goes unreported and a lot of racially motivated crime goes unmissed as police it is not recorded as such when it should be.
in all fairness, i'd prefer birmingham/black country/west midlands to somewhere with a small townie mentality, but it's not a patch on london as far as just being cooler, to the point where most people actually don't give a shit. compared to london it's unusual to see mixed couples in birmingham/black country/wm, and the make-up of couples are fairly limited too.
3million of taxpayers pension funds go missing during a huge selloff as well as the 750 thousand commission for doing the deal. not to worry the money was returned and the culprits are no longer with the company.. its fraud pure fraud. the guards have been informed.. will any arresteds be made.. warrants issued? wait and see
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2012, 09:32:36 PM
3million of taxpayers pension funds go missing during a huge selloff as well as the 750 thousand commission for doing the deal. not to worry the money was returned and the culprits are no longer with the company.. its fraud pure fraud. the guards have been informed.. will any arresteds be made.. warrants issued? wait and see
??
Quote from: LeoMc on November 23, 2012, 11:17:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2012, 09:32:36 PM
3million of taxpayers pension funds go missing during a huge selloff as well as the 750 thousand commission for doing the deal. not to worry the money was returned and the culprits are no longer with the company.. its fraud pure fraud. the guards have been informed.. will any arresteds be made.. warrants issued? wait and see
??
ah jeez... our great government decided to sell 3 billions worth of bonds (probably to give to some krout) they employed a broker who as well as charging 750 grand for doing the deal also syphoned off almost 3 million of our money. it took a while but eventually the numpties we voted for noticed the missing money and now they have put in a complaint to the stock exchange and a file to the guards. the company in question have issued a statement saying they returned the money and the bad employees are no longer with the company. thats justice my arse
Em ... the guards have no powers of arrest in London.
Quote from: Hardy on November 24, 2012, 12:15:47 PM
Em ... the guards have no powers of arrest in London.
the guards do work with interpol and dont say they dont work with the brits. the point is will they act or will this be swept under the carpet? i'll wager we never hear another word about it
The Stock Exchange??
In the UK, company fraud would be a matter for the FSA's Enforcement and Financial Crime Division
Going by past form, paying back the amount in question and a fine, is regarded as punishment for what amounts to an admitted attempt at fraud by the company. 2 senior executives had left the company even though they had not profited personally. The company was the beneficiary and the wrongdoer.
The £3m fraud was a relatively crude plan and required an absence of very basic accounting scrutiny at the NTMA in order for it to succeed.
It was only by accident that they unwittingly stumbled upon it.
Yet State institutions still continue to deal with these self confessed fraudsters whose trail is littered with scams. As the UK broker company admits itself that it has engaged in illicit practices such as 'application of a commission that had not been expressly agreed with the client'
In a recent case where a JC Flowers' CEO did engage in defrauding £1.5m for personal gain through fraudulent invoicing, was found out, pleaded guilty had to pay back the £1.5m plus a fine of £1.5m
The (by now) ex-CEO was already bankrupt. No jail time, even in the event of non payment.
Pretty much, in order to get jail time in the UK, a crooked crew would have to be caught redhanded in a boiler room scam, have defrauded tens of millions from people and have spent/hidden it all.
Dickensian era - renewed and vigourous.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/six-gardai-sent-to-arrest-mum-for-unpaid-fine-at-3am-3323199.html (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/six-gardai-sent-to-arrest-mum-for-unpaid-fine-at-3am-3323199.html)
Six gardai sent to arrest mum for unpaid fine at 3am
SIX gardai called to the home of a mother just before 3am to arrest her and bring her to prison over an unpaid €250 traffic fine
The case arose after the Limerick woman was allegedly caught using a mobile phone while driving in 2010.
However, she insists she was not aware of the initial fine or proceedings in the District Court last May when she was convicted and fined €250. When the court fine was left unpaid, a penal warrant was subsequently issued and forwarded to gardai.
The mother, who lives in a halting site in Limerick, spoke after the court sitting on condition of anonymity.
Last Wednesday morning, gardai arrived at her home just before 3am.
"It was about 2.45am and they knocked at my back door and they had flash lamps and at first I didn't know who it was," she said.
"Then when I opened the door, it was the guards – about six of them.
"When they walked in, they asked us what our names were because my sister was there as well and my mam was in bed and my baby was in bed.
"When they came in then, they said, 'There is a warrant for your arrest'.
"I asked them for what and they said for a mobile phone," she said.
The woman pleaded with the officers not to bring her to prison because of her three-month-old son.
She told gardai she would sort it out that week.
"I said I was not going up to the prison – no way.
"They were fair enough about it, but it was the hour of the morning that was upsetting," she said.
Last Friday, her solicitor Sarah Ryan made an application in Limerick District Court to extend time to allow an appeal.
Granting the application, Judge O'Kelly said he hoped there was some "extraordinary" reason for the gardai attempting to execute the penal warrant at that time of the morning.
Insp John Deasy said it was "not the normal practice" and told the court there may have been specific reasons as to why it was done at that time but did not identify what they were.
"They (penal warrants) should not be executed after midnight or before 7am," Judge O'Kelly added.