Poll
Question:
Was it a free?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 12
Option 2: No
votes: 41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH48CMsIlv8&feature=share (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH48CMsIlv8&feature=share)
Balto were a point up with two mins to go when this free was given against them. They lost by a point...
it looks like the forward in the blue jersey was in for a goal had the free not been given.
Ref was maybe playing for a draw, both teams go home happy, replay the following week, county board happy, but instead it went wrong and St. Patrick's sneak it in injury time ?
No free.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 10, 2012, 10:18:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH48CMsIlv8&feature=share (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH48CMsIlv8&feature=share)
Balto were a point up with two mins to go when this free was given against them. They lost by a point...
He didn't over carry the ball as he clearly didn't take the 4 steps. The question of over holding is not clear. The difinition is to hold the ball longer than is rewuired to take 4 steps. He had the ball in his hands for maximum 5 seconds more likely 3-4. I would reckon the ref was harsh in his interpretation, but it is only an interpretation rule so anything can go.
I think the only possible answer, given the wording of the rule, is that it's a free if the referee says it is. The ball may be "carried in the hand for a maximum of four
consecutive steps or held in the hand for no longer than the time needed to take four steps."
What is the time needed to take four steps? Are they walking steps, jogging steps or sprinting steps? I have no idea, nor does anybody else. So the referee can decide that it's whatever he thinks it is.
My own opinion - it was a very harsh interpretation of the rule. It'd be interesting to check how consistent was his timing of ball holding through the rest of the game.
(Edit - As bc1 says).
He was seemingly inconsistent on the over carrying rule through the game..
Just to add some conspiracy to it, this referee had done 4 of St Pats championship fixtures and also 4 of their challenge games through the period of championship. The chairmen of the referees boards is a St Pats man...
The Balto heads are not a happy bunch....
Dreadful decision...
Yeah looks a very bad decision to me as well, but that rule is probably the most poorly reffed of the lot unfortunately.
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Completely irrelevant...
Dreadful Decision...
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Completely irrelevant...
Dreadful Decision...
Not true, there is a direct correlation between the length of time allowed in a case like this and the number of opposion players who shout " How long ref?". But only if they throw they're hands up as well while shouting.
As expecting to see Seamus Darby on this clip
That was a never a free, stick up a poll on it for the craic dinny.
Poll added as requested.
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Completely irrelevant...
Dreadful Decision...
You think the referee is not influenced by player reactions?
The pats player was through for a goal after the keeper threw it away, those lads should be happy that is was only a point they conceded at the time.
Look at it this way, should the ref carry on its a goal to Pats. Given that the keeper has fallen and is surrounded by pats players, he'll probably concede a free for over-carrying when he stands up. Either way pats are going a score down. Storm in a tea cup.
Brave effort from the free too, would have got it with a stronger wind.
You mean at the start of the clip? Yeah it looked like the no. 13 was taking a free alright.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Completely irrelevant...
Dreadful Decision...
You think the referee is not influenced by player reactions?
The question put to us posters in the title of the thread was 'was it a free'?...I have answered that, in my opinion, it was not a free and was a dreadful decision...
The question was not 'Why do you think the referee blew for a free?'...This is what you appear to be answering and that is why I believe it to be totally irrelevant...
A referee has to be strong and make his own calls...by your logic whoever shouts the loudest wins....
Why didn't the goalie just punch it clear to the no. 6 who was in acres of space. That would have been the smarter option rather than catching it in an area that was like Times Square during rush hour.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. 8)
Obviously not a free by any reasonable standard.
Definitely no free, ridiculous decision
Of course its a free, At 15secs in the clip you can clearly see the ref waving his hands in the air like some sort of an idiot making a gesture which obviously means over carrying. If the ref says its a free, no matter how retarded of a decision it is, its a free.
Seriously what a strange decision. Gone be the days, that ref would be thrown into the boot of a car pulling a decision like that in a wicklow club match.
Was that Austy taking the free ?
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 03:36:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Completely irrelevant...
Dreadful Decision...
You think the referee is not influenced by player reactions?
The question put to us posters in the title of the thread was 'was it a free'?...I have answered that, in my opinion, it was not a free and was a dreadful decision...
The question was not 'Why do you think the referee blew for a free?'...This is what you appear to be answering and that is why I believe it to be totally irrelevant...
A referee has to be strong and make his own calls...by your logic whoever shouts the loudest wins....
The question is "Was it a free?" The referee awarded a free therefore it is a free.
Anything else is just opinions and a discussion as to whether he should have or not. I was pointing out another influencing factor.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 11, 2012, 08:30:31 AM
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 03:36:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Completely irrelevant...
Dreadful Decision...
You think the referee is not influenced by player reactions?
The question put to us posters in the title of the thread was 'was it a free'?...I have answered that, in my opinion, it was not a free and was a dreadful decision...
The question was not 'Why do you think the referee blew for a free?'...This is what you appear to be answering and that is why I believe it to be totally irrelevant...
A referee has to be strong and make his own calls...by your logic whoever shouts the loudest wins....
The question is "Was it a free?" The referee awarded a free therefore it is a free.
Anything else is just opinions and a discussion as to whether he should have or not. I was pointing out another influencing factor.
Do we know (All theoretical of course):
-If the referee is half blind and couldn't see;
-How many of the other teams fans were in the stand shouting obscenities at the referee;
-How much money the referee's brother had on the other team;
-How intensely that referee has a personal dislike of that goalkeeper after a family row over goats 16 years ago;
Influencing factors are a pointer to why the free might have been given...not whether it was actually a free or not...
Never a free...dreadful decision...
Quote from: trileacman on October 10, 2012, 03:29:03 PM
The pats player was through for a goal after the keeper threw it away, those lads should be happy that is was only a point they conceded at the time.
Look at it this way, should the ref carry on its a goal to Pats. Given that the keeper has fallen and is surrounded by pats players, he'll probably concede a free for over-carrying when he stands up. Either way pats are going a score down. Storm in a tea cup.
I dont think you are getting the issue here.
Do you think the keeper overcarried?
Quote from: wildrover on October 11, 2012, 09:43:34 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 11, 2012, 08:30:31 AM
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 03:36:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: wildrover on October 10, 2012, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
Do we know how many Pats players shouted "How long Ref"?
Completely irrelevant...
Dreadful Decision...
You think the referee is not influenced by player reactions?
The question put to us posters in the title of the thread was 'was it a free'?...I have answered that, in my opinion, it was not a free and was a dreadful decision...
The question was not 'Why do you think the referee blew for a free?'...This is what you appear to be answering and that is why I believe it to be totally irrelevant...
A referee has to be strong and make his own calls...by your logic whoever shouts the loudest wins....
The question is "Was it a free?" The referee awarded a free therefore it is a free.
Anything else is just opinions and a discussion as to whether he should have or not. I was pointing out another influencing factor.
Do we know (All theoretical of course):
-If the referee is half blind and couldn't see;
-How many of the other teams fans were in the stand shouting obscenities at the referee;
-How much money the referee's brother had on the other team;
-How intensely that referee has a personal dislike of that goalkeeper after a family row over goats 16 years ago;
Influencing factors are a pointer to why the free might have been given...not whether it was actually a free or not...
Never a free...dreadful decision...
:D
The ref blew up for a free and unfortunately he had the right to do so.
I suppose that's all that matters in the end.
But it was an incredible decision as the goalie took at most two steps before falling and promptly releasing the ball.
The ref had a clear view of proceedings and was standing just outside the large rectangle so he had to see what was going on. He could have blown for anything else and get away with it but not for over carrying.
Fix! ;)
Harsh decision. Looks like one of those refs. The one that can't wait to blow fouls against one team but gives the other team all the leeway in the world.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 11, 2012, 12:12:04 PM
Harsh decision. Looks like one of those refs. The one that can't wait to blow fouls against one team but gives the other team all the leeway in the world.
Amazing! You can tell this from 30 seconds of football and without seeing any of these other fouls?
That's why it's a tough world for referees. Their reasoning is continually questioned by people who reason like this.
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 12:17:43 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 11, 2012, 12:12:04 PM
Harsh decision. Looks like one of those refs. The one that can't wait to blow fouls against one team but gives the other team all the leeway in the world.
Amazing! You can tell this from 30 seconds of football and without seeing any of these other fouls?
That's why it's a tough world for referees. Their reasoning is continually questioned by people who reason like this.
Taking this into consideration:
QuoteJust to add some conspiracy to it, this referee had done 4 of St Pats championship fixtures and also 4 of their challenge games through the period of championship. The chairmen of the referees boards is a St Pats man...
Yes. To me it looks like one of those.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 11, 2012, 12:21:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 12:17:43 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 11, 2012, 12:12:04 PM
Harsh decision. Looks like one of those refs. The one that can't wait to blow fouls against one team but gives the other team all the leeway in the world.
Amazing! You can tell this from 30 seconds of football and without seeing any of these other fouls?
That's why it's a tough world for referees. Their reasoning is continually questioned by people who reason like this.
Taking this into consideration:
QuoteJust to add some conspiracy to it, this referee had done 4 of St Pats championship fixtures and also 4 of their challenge games through the period of championship. The chairmen of the referees boards is a St Pats man...
Yes. To me it looks like one of those.
Sure the chairman has to be from some club.
FELT keeper was looking for a free and held on to ball
he only passed when he realised he wasnt getting touched
he held on for a quare while though
Quote from: naka on October 11, 2012, 02:16:23 PM
FELT keeper was looking for a free and held on to ball
he only passed when he realised he wasnt getting touched
he held on for a quare while though
3 seconds isn't too long though. Or is it? As Hardy said what steps is it for, walking, sprinting, jogging etc. I don't think it should have been a free. I'm surprised I didn't see this thread before now!