Jimmy Mc Guinness refused to start his post match press conference to day until a certain journalist was removed.I'll let you guess the identity.
It's all coming together,...... Any updates
http://s2.jrnl.ie/media/2012/09/gaelic-life.png
As a journalist for the belfast tele was he not entitiled to be there? As an investigative journalist has he not the right to interview people for his book? Has something else happened behind the scene??
I WANT TO KNOW WHERE KEVIN CASSIDY STANDS ON THIS
Petty shite from McGuinness who sees himself as some sort of modern day guru with his mind games. The GAA Press Officer is the real villain of the piece here as she should have called Jimmy's bluff. Spineless stuff.
Shades of Jack Charlton and Eamon Dunphy.Apparently Jimmy spoke to officials and walked out,and a senior official asked DB to leave,after which Jimmy returned.
What did the journo do to upset Jim?
Armagh never would have done this.
Maybe JMac can start a wee cult in the foothills of the Himalayas.
Orior,you're joking aren't you?
It was the fact that Siobhan Brady bent over which is disappointing. McGuinness made her evict Bogue. Brady should've stood up for the journalists and not the manager. She has now made this a press conference called by the manager.
All the other journalists should have walked. Leaves a bitter taste behind.
He's only going to get worse now, isn't he?
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 11:40:43 PM
It was the fact that Siobhan Brady bent over which is disappointing. McGuinness made her evict Bogue. Brady should've stood up for the journalists and not the manager. She has now made this a press conference called by the manager.
An absolute disgrace. Siobhan Brady should be sacked on the spot.
I'm also really disappointed that any colleagues didn't walk out in protest - whatever about failed entities on here, professional journalists should show a bit more backbone.
Jimmy was 100% right in what he done. nothing constructive was gonna come from that journalist been there anyway.Jimmy seems to be a fairly head strong guy and now will be seen as a national treasure after whats hes achieved so he will be able to do what he wants to who he wants. you don't see anybody else who is still playing writing books about their careers when there still playing and under the same management set up. obviously didn't have the same respect for his manager and team mates as they held for him. Great player but will have to live by the sword and probably die by it by the looks of things. he'll be a sick man this morning. this video still makes me laugh..such a position Jimmy was put under...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUDZJC29l5c
Thought that was a cheap shot by McGuinness alright but even worse by Brady to allow it. As for the other journos - all for one and one for all me arse
Quote from: stephenite on September 24, 2012, 03:41:42 AM
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 11:40:43 PM
It was the fact that Siobhan Brady bent over which is disappointing. McGuinness made her evict Bogue. Brady should've stood up for the journalists and not the manager. She has now made this a press conference called by the manager.
An absolute disgrace. Siobhan Brady should be sacked on the spot.
I'm also really disappointed that any colleagues didn't walk out in protest - whatever about failed entities on here, professional journalists should show a bit more backbone.
What would you suggest she do? Stand firm and have no press conference? She's in a no-win situation. If Jimmy says he's walking then he's walking and I doubt if any amount of 'free press' speeches would have had any effect. She did the only thing she could have so ease up a little there.
Anyway, it could have been forced to a head by the brotherhood walking out. Strange that didn't happen ;) Nah, they choose to let the comrade die on his own sword and then fill the papers with it the next morning. Oh, the outrage. I think McGuinness calls this 'putting jam on both sides'.
Amateur players and amateur managements combined with professional hacks. That's the source of a lot of these issues. Mind you, Alex Ferguson banned journalists from his press conferences before as well.
Hard to beat an auld 'freedom of speech' issue on a Monday morning. I very much doubt anyone in Donegal gives a shit though and they didn't paint murals of McGuinness as a communist guerrilla leader for the craic you know ;)
Was this the first post match press conference of the year for Donegal?
Surely he was "banned" by the Donegal management before this.
The journalist involved knew what would happen.
He was looking for a reaction and got it.
Adrenalin was pumping, im sure in the cold light of day jimmy may regret it and just ignored db. Last thing on his mind today though!!
QuoteWas this the first post match press conference of the year for Donegal?
Surely he was "banned" by the Donegal management before this.
The journalist involved knew what would happen.
He was looking for a reaction and got it.
Well if you read the Indo article on this.........
QuoteBogue had been to all of Donegal's post-match press conferences this summer without any disapproval from McGuinness and had even been to the Donegal media night in advance of the final three weeks earlier.
It would seem this is the first time JMcG has seen fit to take offence in public at the journo.
To be honest, having read the book, McGuinness comes out of it ok. A driven mamger, sure, but there is nothing that I recall that would warrant that level of reaction.
Leaves an unpleasant taste after such a great year for DnG. Will McGuinness now vet everyone who attends press conferences? Where will the line be drawn? Ban anyone who gave him a a poor review from his sig days? Lock the doors to any journo who questions his choice of tactics?
Quote from: tyroneman on September 24, 2012, 09:52:56 AM
QuoteWas this the first post match press conference of the year for Donegal?
Surely he was "banned" by the Donegal management before this.
The journalist involved knew what would happen.
He was looking for a reaction and got it.
Well if you read the Indo article on this.........
QuoteBogue had been to all of Donegal's post-match press conferences this summer without any disapproval from McGuinness and had even been to the Donegal media night in advance of the final three weeks earlier
It would seem this is the first time JMcG has seen fit to take offence in public at the journo.
To be honest, having read the book, McGuinness comes out of it ok. A driven mamger, sure, but there is nothing that I recall that would warrant that level of reaction.
Leaves an unpleasant taste after such a great year for DnG. Will McGuinness now vet everyone who attends press conferences? Where will the line be drawn? Ban anyone who gave him a a poor review from his sig days? Lock the doors to any journo who questions his choice of tactics?
Well if that's the case, I take it back.
there's rarely a good word said about any journalists on this site. Now one gets asked to leave a press conference and everyone is getting their nags in a twist
... which illustrates the fair-minded nature of the contributors on this topic, I'd suggest.
The full indo article (apologies for lack of paragraphs, cutting and pasting from my phone.) Jim's language is extremely emotive. Having not read DB's book you would assume he wrote something very close to the bone in relation to JMcG, which doesn't add up to what those who have read it report. Strange.
Jim McGuinness had just completed perhaps the great coaching journey of the modern era in Gaelic football an hour earlier, but when he walked into the post-match press conference it quickly became obvious that he had something on his mind.The positivity that had radiated from him all season was absent as he fixed his stare on a stopwatch strapped to his arm, clearly gathering his thoughts. He rose from his chair and returned briefly to the ante room that links the TV interview area and the dressing-room corridor.A representative from the Croke Park press office then re-entered to deliver a request from McGuinness to Declan Bogue, the Ulster-based journalist who had collaborated with Kevin Cassidy for the controversial book 'This Is Our Year' that led to Cassidy's removal from the squad last November, to leave the room. Only if his request was acceded to, it emerged, would he return to conduct any print media interviews.When McGuinness re-entered the auditorium he gave the background to the request and why, after 10 months, he was now addressing the vexed issue of Cassidy's contribution and seeking the author's removal. Bogue had been to all of Donegal's post-match press conferences this summer without any disapproval from McGuinness and had even been to the Donegal media night in advance of the final three weeks earlier.But now McGuinness, with the journey complete, was delivering what he felt was the necessary riposte in their time of glory."There were a lot of untruths in the book. There was a lot of things said about me. I've never broken court on it since the whole thing happened. I've held my dignity. I've let myself be castigated. And I did that because I gave somebody an agreement that I wouldn't break my court on it.Incorrect"There were a lot of things said in the book that were incorrect and untrue, some of it about me personally and about some of my players. The person who wrote that book had no researcher on the book to qualify what was said. The other people in the media that wrote fairly vile articles had no researcher to qualify the comments. It was an all-out attack for a couple of months on my character. I know what I've done, I know what I've coached, I know what I am as a person."So I'm not going to let somebody sit in a room and fill their pages tomorrow on the back of what we've done today when they in their wisdom degraded me as a person and some of my players," said McGuinness. "I'm not a two-faced person, I'm not going to be two-faced here and let somebody have their jam on both sides. It was a very hard period in my life, for my family and everybody else and I still held my dignity."Pressed as to why he hadn't responded at the time of the book's launch, McGuinness said there was little comeback for him. "If I challenged it at the time, it makes the story bigger and the people who've read it in the first place have made up their minds about it anyway. So why would I go over old ground, creating a bigger story, making it bigger and bigger and bigger and the people who have read it in the first place will have their own view? I'm not going to answer any more about it."And there's another person who if he was here would be out of the room as well. It was absolutely vile what he wrote, all on falsehoods. Absolutely vile that you could get away with that and degrade somebody to that level and feel then that you can write another article to rectify the wrong."It's wrong that people should act in haste and repent at leisure. It's not hard to get a researcher on a book. That's the end of it. I'm leaving if there's another question."
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 24, 2012, 10:23:29 AM
The full indo article (apologies for lack of paragraphs, cutting and pasting from my phone.) Jim's language is extremely emotive. Having not read DB's book you would assume he wrote something very close to the bone in relation to JMcG, which doesn't add up to what those who have read it report. Strange.
Yeah, it does seem strange I agree. What can happen in alot of these things is that because Jim is so involved in something which he eats, sleeps and breathes, every little thing is magnified 1000% for him. Most of the time the rest of us as casual observer won't get what the issue is. I didn't see anything offensive whatsoever in the book. There have been way more offensive things published in papers and books than anything in DB's book. It's just the bubble mentality of someone ultra sensitive having put his whole life into it. Understandable I think.
I'm not sure what McGuinness was at. Like or loathe the media, they are an utterly invaluable part of the GAA world.
Darren Clarke's approach was much better - plus he said it with a smile on his face.
"Hang on I'm trying to recollect your little line. 'He's in his inexorable slide toward irrelevance.' Is that what you said? I've got the paper at home. I can show it to you if you don't believe me." – Darren Clarke to Lawrence Donegan after his Open Championship win.
Has anyone any idea which aspect of the book offended him?
I have read it and didn't see anything which would portray Jim McGuiness in a negative light. Alternative in his approach yes but I felt it only improved the impression that he had taken GAA management to a new level.
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 24, 2012, 10:23:29 AM
The full indo article (apologies for lack of paragraphs, cutting and pasting from my phone.) Jim's language is extremely emotive. Having not read DB's book you would assume he wrote something very close to the bone in relation to JMcG, which doesn't add up to what those who have read it report. Strange.
Jim McGuinness had just completed perhaps the great coaching journey of the modern era in Gaelic football an hour earlier, but when he walked into the post-match press conference it quickly became obvious that he had something on his mind.The positivity that had radiated from him all season was absent as he fixed his stare on a stopwatch strapped to his arm, clearly gathering his thoughts. He rose from his chair and returned briefly to the ante room that links the TV interview area and the dressing-room corridor.A representative from the Croke Park press office then re-entered to deliver a request from McGuinness to Declan Bogue, the Ulster-based journalist who had collaborated with Kevin Cassidy for the controversial book 'This Is Our Year' that led to Cassidy's removal from the squad last November, to leave the room. Only if his request was acceded to, it emerged, would he return to conduct any print media interviews.When McGuinness re-entered the auditorium he gave the background to the request and why, after 10 months, he was now addressing the vexed issue of Cassidy's contribution and seeking the author's removal. Bogue had been to all of Donegal's post-match press conferences this summer without any disapproval from McGuinness and had even been to the Donegal media night in advance of the final three weeks earlier.But now McGuinness, with the journey complete, was delivering what he felt was the necessary riposte in their time of glory."There were a lot of untruths in the book. There was a lot of things said about me. I've never broken court on it since the whole thing happened. I've held my dignity. I've let myself be castigated. And I did that because I gave somebody an agreement that I wouldn't break my court on it.Incorrect"There were a lot of things said in the book that were incorrect and untrue, some of it about me personally and about some of my players. The person who wrote that book had no researcher on the book to qualify what was said. The other people in the media that wrote fairly vile articles had no researcher to qualify the comments. It was an all-out attack for a couple of months on my character. I know what I've done, I know what I've coached, I know what I am as a person."So I'm not going to let somebody sit in a room and fill their pages tomorrow on the back of what we've done today when they in their wisdom degraded me as a person and some of my players," said McGuinness. "I'm not a two-faced person, I'm not going to be two-faced here and let somebody have their jam on both sides. It was a very hard period in my life, for my family and everybody else and I still held my dignity."Pressed as to why he hadn't responded at the time of the book's launch, McGuinness said there was little comeback for him. "If I challenged it at the time, it makes the story bigger and the people who've read it in the first place have made up their minds about it anyway. So why would I go over old ground, creating a bigger story, making it bigger and bigger and bigger and the people who have read it in the first place will have their own view? I'm not going to answer any more about it."And there's another person who if he was here would be out of the room as well. It was absolutely vile what he wrote, all on falsehoods. Absolutely vile that you could get away with that and degrade somebody to that level and feel then that you can write another article to rectify the wrong."It's wrong that people should act in haste and repent at leisure. It's not hard to get a researcher on a book. That's the end of it. I'm leaving if there's another question."
Who is Jimmy referring to here?
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2012, 10:54:05 AM
I'm not sure what McGuinness was at. Like or loathe the media, they are an utterly invaluable part of the GAA world.
Darren Clarke's approach was much better - plus he said it with a smile on his face.
"Hang on I'm trying to recollect your little line. 'He's in his inexorable slide toward irrelevance.' Is that what you said? I've got the paper at home. I can show it to you if you don't believe me." – Darren Clarke to Lawrence Donegan after his Open Championship win.
Is that the same Lawrence Donegan of Creeshlough Reserves / Lloyd Cole fame?
Way OTT from Jimmy McGuinness if you ask me. He wouldn't be one to hold a grudge , would he!? I read the book and can't remember anything derogatory said about Jimmy, he makes it sound like he was accused of first degree murder!! Couldn't imagine Mickey Harte or Mick O'Dwyer acting like this, its just a bullying tactic now that he is in an elevated position of power. A lack of class at a time when the over-riding emotion should have been one of joy. Shades of Alex Ferguson.
I wish we had a Jim McGuinness in Limerick to lead our hurlers to the promised land with his single minded determination and belief in his system.
The media is an industry that feeds on the ups and downs of whats happening and can portray you in whatever manner it likes,I don't know what was said about McGuinness but it seems to have bolstered his siege mentality and driven him on even more resulting in the glory of yesterday.Kevin Cassidy might have an AI medal this morning if he bought in 100% to Jims philosophy of us against the world and absolutely everything remaining within the camp.
He could have gone along with the whole media thing but it appears that is not the man,thats a part of him that makes him stand out,makes him a winner.Without him Donegal would not have their second AI and that is the only thing that matters in Donegal today.We cannot be selective in the parts of him we accept,its the whole package or nothing and thats what he offers his players and the people of Donegal.
If he chose to do what he did during the press conference he was right because that is the man,some will be upset but if you want to attain the holy grail of AI success you are not going to be dominated by thoughts of who you should please along the way.
@ Yellowcard. Rory Gallagher?
Quote from: Absent on September 24, 2012, 11:48:42 AM
I wish we had a Jim McGuinness in Limerick to lead our hurlers to the promised land with his single minded determination and belief in his system.
The media is an industry that feeds on the ups and downs of whats happening and can portray you in whatever manner it likes,I don't know what was said about McGuinness but it seems to have bolstered his siege mentality and driven him on even more resulting in the glory of yesterday.Kevin Cassidy might have an AI medal this morning if he bought in 100% to Jims philosophy of us against the world and absolutely everything remaining within the camp.
He could have gone along with the whole media thing but it appears that is not the man,thats a part of him that makes him stand out,makes him a winner.Without him Donegal would not have their second AI and that is the only thing that matters in Donegal today.We cannot be selective in the parts of him we accept,its the whole package or nothing and thats what he offers his players and the people of Donegal.
If he chose to do what he did during the press conference he was right because that is the man,some will be upset but if you want to attain the holy grail of AI success you are not going to be dominated by thoughts of who you should please along the way.
God the father, the son and the holy spirit themselves couldn't get everyone in Limerick hurling to agree on the time of day, let alone a team selection Absent.
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 24, 2012, 11:58:50 AM
@ Yellowcard. Rory Gallagher?
Lol, and I presume you aren't talking about his assistant!
Utterly pathetic stuff from McGuinness and pathetic from the rest of the journalists who should have walked out in support of their colleague.
He's proved himself to be an extremely vindictive, petty small-minded individual.
I know if I believed someone slandered (or participated in assisting someone to slander) me, I'd go out of my way to make the f*ckers life/job/work as miserable as I could.
I just feel what McGuinness did yesterday with Bogue was odd and very damaging for the future. Seems he now has punished the Belfast Telegraph readers. Having read the book I dont think much was really said about Jim and his players, certainly nothing inciteful on how to win, no special ingredient to succeeding was revealed, there was certainly nothing we already didn know. After 2003 Mickey Harte and Peter Canavan went on to release books that give an indepth insight into the Tyrone set-up and this didnt hamper Tyrone going on to win again in 2005 or 2008. Life is short, sport is there for all of us to enjoy and I didnt think what Kevin Cassidy or Bogue did was gravely wrong. I feel for Kevin Cassidy today. Kevin over the years has been a great ambassador for Donegal and the GAA. Jim might well have been in his rights to do what he did, but sport is there for us all to savour, why do we tune into RTE? To hear Spillane and Brolly and get a little chuckle, Why do we buy the Gaelic Life paper? To read about our sport. Without books, papers, internet coverage, TV programmes, shows etc on the GAA things would be alot duller. There is approximately 1200 county footballers in Ireland, and the rest of us only dream about playing at county level, the media through books etc is the only way we can experience for a moment what its like to be a county player. I dont think expelling Kevin from the squad won Donegal the AI, nor did the book prevent Donegal winning the AI. Just live and let live Jim. Let the line be drawn in the sand and move on.
Slandered?
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 24, 2012, 01:17:29 PM
I know if I believed someone slandered (or participated in assisting someone to slander) me, I'd go out of my way to make the f*ckers life/job/work as miserable as I could.
John Fogarty: It's been said, Kevin, that when you contributed to the This Is Our Year book you wrote your death warrant as a Donegal player. Did you look at it that way?
Kevin Cassidy: "Me and Jim has this conversation back in Easter time. We sat down and he said "obviously, there's stuff you're annoyed about and there's stuff I'm annoyed about". So he started off and said our code of conduct stated nobody was allowed to talk about this or that. 'Why didn't you come to me?' he said. A lot of people said I was incredibly naive. Obviously, I knew I was telling (author) Declan Bogue stuff that was happening in the camp. But the way I explained it to Jim McGuinness was that we played Tyrone but we (Cassidy and Bogue) met after the game so there was no chance for Declan to tell him what happened. Being honest, I didn't really know Declan Bogue. It was just somebody came and asked could I help him and I said 'no bother, I'll give a hand'. So there was no opportunity for him to go and tell secrets. There were no secrets that came out anyway — it was only stuff that people knew and had already spoken about. If I did what Jimmy McGuinness was saying, the whole country would know how Donegal operate because we were all given an actual sheet — I have it in the house somewhere — of how we would play. If I was that bad a guy or if that was what I wanted to do, that would be in the book. It wasn't. I said to him that the stuff I was telling was stuff that people had seen. Open training sessions, like. Joe Brolly and these guys had been to our training sessions. They knew exactly who was there. I didn't think I let him down."
John Fogarty: So it was a clear-the-air meeting?
Kevin Cassidy: "Aye, he approached me at Easter time, we sat down and we had a conversation. Obviously, there were things he was pissed off about and there were things I was pissed off about. The launch of the book that he banned people from going near. I thought that was bad form, on a human basis. Stuff like team holidays and telling our family couldn't go on that. The opportunity was there to go back but I said to him I didn't want to go back and bring a whole media circus with me because these boys were about to go into their Championship season. It wouldn't have been fair on the panel or my family. I don't hold any grudges, I've never fallen out with anybody (about it) and I never will but you learn as you go on."
John Fogarty: Jim made you an offer to return to the panel?
Kevin Cassidy: "He came to my school after work one day. It was a very civilised conversation, there were no heated moments. He said what he had to say and I said what I had to say because on top of that, and I'm sure Mort is the same, a lot of people said to me that 'Jim McGuinness was saying this about you'. It was the same for Jim and none of it was true at all and there were a lot of crossed wires. It was good to clear that up, we left and we shook hands. I was heading on holidays the following week, the opportunity was there to go back but I sent a text from holidays that I wouldn't be going back. I felt it wouldn't be fair on the team or on me or my family."
John Fogarty: Were you compensated for not being invited on the team holiday?
Kevin Cassidy: "Yeah, in fairness they looked after us with a voucher. I wouldn't have been happy with how I was dealt with but that's for another day."
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/you-miss-out-on-a-medal-but-its-not-going-to-pay-your-bills-208461.html
would agree with McGuinness if he felt that way.
I think people are missing the point behind his reason (and yes I am guessing) - it isnt all about what was written, but that a player was effectively a mole in the camp and not completely faithful to the Donegal cause and management.
Thats imo how McGuinness would see it.
Worse still, its a player with prev history of bad discipline etc and as a senior figure in the squad and one of the main leaders, it sticks a knife into McGuinness and the ethos he brings (despite Cassidy being a brilliant player for Donegal throughout his career good and bad).
Cassidy was influenced to compomise the santity of the squad by this journo. Cassidy was kicked out and yesterday was the first chance McGuinness had to hit back at the journo - as prev it would have deflected attention from the Donegal team and McGuinnesses mission.
I believe I understand it. It is possibly OTT but as the man as shown as a manager, there is no middle ground.
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 24, 2012, 01:17:29 PM
I know if I believed someone slandered (or participated in assisting someone to slander) me, I'd go out of my way to make the f*ckers life/job/work as miserable as I could.
Where in the book was he slandered?
Quote from: camanchero on September 24, 2012, 01:25:16 PM
would agree with McGuinness if he felt that way.
I think people are missing the point behind his reason (and yes I am guessing) - it isnt all about what was written, but that a player was effectively a mole in the camp and not completely faithful to the Donegal cause and management.
Thats imo how McGuinness would see it.
Worse still, its a player with prev history of bad discipline etc and as a senior figure in the squad and one of the main leaders, it sticks a knife into McGuinness and the ethos he brings (despite Cassidy being a brilliant player for Donegal throughout his career good and bad).
Cassidy was influenced to compomise the santity of the squad by this journo. Cassidy was kicked out and yesterday was the first chance McGuinness had to hit back at the journo - as prev it would have deflected attention from the Donegal team and McGuinnesses mission.
I believe I understand it. It is possibly OTT but as the man as shown as a manager, there is no middle ground.
Not that long ago since Jim was one of those himself!
Quote from: yellowcard on September 24, 2012, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 24, 2012, 01:17:29 PM
I know if I believed someone slandered (or participated in assisting someone to slander) me, I'd go out of my way to make the f*ckers life/job/work as miserable as I could.
Where in the book was he slandered?
'untruths' was the word McGuinness used, more diplomatic than saying lies. If he believes Bogue was telling lies, be it about McGuinness himself, his players, his setup, preparation, whatever, then he has every right to not entertain him. Fair fcuks, i would have done the same
The man has just steered Donegal to an AI success, but folks cant sharpen the knives quick enough.
Quote from: stephenite on September 24, 2012, 03:41:42 AM
An absolute disgrace. Siobhan Brady should be sacked on the spot.
I'm also really disappointed that any colleagues didn't walk out in protest - whatever about failed entities on here, professional journalists should show a bit more backbone.
The villains of this piece are definitely the hacks. I can understand Jimmy McGuinness, flush with a victory where he is getting more credit than most, trying to exact revenge on someone who angered him. And I can understand Siobhan Brady thinking when put on the spot that ejecting Delcan Bogue was the lesser of two evils. But professional journalists, constantly griping that their craft is being undermined by keyboard warriors who care nothing for the facts, should have stood up for one of their own. Shameful.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 24, 2012, 01:35:46 PM
Quote from: camanchero on September 24, 2012, 01:25:16 PM
would agree with McGuinness if he felt that way.
I think people are missing the point behind his reason (and yes I am guessing) - it isnt all about what was written, but that a player was effectively a mole in the camp and not completely faithful to the Donegal cause and management.
Thats imo how McGuinness would see it.
Worse still, its a player with prev history of bad discipline etc and as a senior figure in the squad and one of the main leaders, it sticks a knife into McGuinness and the ethos he brings (despite Cassidy being a brilliant player for Donegal throughout his career good and bad).
Cassidy was influenced to compomise the santity of the squad by this journo. Cassidy was kicked out and yesterday was the first chance McGuinness had to hit back at the journo - as prev it would have deflected attention from the Donegal team and McGuinnesses mission.
I believe I understand it. It is possibly OTT but as the man as shown as a manager, there is no middle ground.
Not that long ago since Jim was one of those himself!
why is that relevant to McGuinness as a manager and what his management ethos is about ? nothing
Quote from: yellowcard on September 24, 2012, 01:35:46 PM
Quote from: camanchero on September 24, 2012, 01:25:16 PM
Worse still, its a player with prev history of bad discipline etc and as a senior figure in the squad and one of the main leaders
Not that long ago since Jim was one of those himself!
Dont recall if he was as bad as some others in recent enough years- but there are plenty of 'poacher turned gamekeepers' out there and in every clubs coaching/management staff !
Quote from: deiseach on September 24, 2012, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: stephenite on September 24, 2012, 03:41:42 AM
An absolute disgrace. Siobhan Brady should be sacked on the spot.
I'm also really disappointed that any colleagues didn't walk out in protest - whatever about failed entities on here, professional journalists should show a bit more backbone.
The villains of this piece are definitely the hacks. I can understand Jimmy McGuinness, flush with a victory where he is getting more credit than most, trying to exact revenge on someone who angered him. And I can understand Siobhan Brady thinking when put on the spot that ejecting Delcan Bogue was the lesser of two evils. But professional journalists, constantly griping that their craft is being undermined by keyboard warriors who care nothing for the facts, should have stood up for one of their own. Shameful.
Professional journalists and keyboard warriors seemingly, hence McGuinness's stance
quite often we give out about the dreadful standard of media pundit/commentator,but way worse are the hacks that dont seem to have a clue or care less about Gaelic games or certain counties/individuals. Plenty of these hacks dont even seem to know the effin rules either!
I'll read about GAA until the cows come home, but a lot of times I dont get papers etc that have sports coverage and others I will ignore because the coverage is rubbish from poor pseudo-journos.
the Games will go on and it is the Journo's that need the games not the other way around.
I'd prefer if they were more entertaining and used less cliches etc and maybe have more accurate facts before anyone praises the print media en masse.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2012, 10:54:05 AM
"Hang on I'm trying to recollect your little line. 'He's in his inexorable slide toward irrelevance.' Is that what you said? I've got the paper at home. I can show it to you if you don't believe me." – Darren Clarke to Lawrence Donegan after his Open Championship win.
Strictly speaking, Lawrence Donegan was right. Winning the British Open has only accelerated Darren's slide (http://www.officialworldgolfranking.com/rankings/default.sps?region=world&PageCount=3). He can't be bothered anymore, and I can't say I blame him
Quote from: johnneycool on September 24, 2012, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: Absent on September 24, 2012, 11:48:42 AM
I wish we had a Jim McGuinness in Limerick to lead our hurlers to the promised land with his single minded determination and belief in his system.
The media is an industry that feeds on the ups and downs of whats happening and can portray you in whatever manner it likes,I don't know what was said about McGuinness but it seems to have bolstered his siege mentality and driven him on even more resulting in the glory of yesterday.Kevin Cassidy might have an AI medal this morning if he bought in 100% to Jims philosophy of us against the world and absolutely everything remaining within the camp.
He could have gone along with the whole media thing but it appears that is not the man,thats a part of him that makes him stand out,makes him a winner.Without him Donegal would not have their second AI and that is the only thing that matters in Donegal today.We cannot be selective in the parts of him we accept,its the whole package or nothing and thats what he offers his players and the people of Donegal.
If he chose to do what he did during the press conference he was right because that is the man,some will be upset but if you want to attain the holy grail of AI success you are not going to be dominated by thoughts of who you should please along the way.
God the father, the son and the holy spirit themselves couldn't get everyone in Limerick hurling to agree on the time of day, let alone a team selection Absent.
Too true sadly,that is partly why we have only 73 to celebrate since 1940 when we won senior and minor.
I think Jim was just right, it was Donegals and his day yesterday, if he was uncomfortable with someone being there then why should he continue (as a lot of you point out he is not a professional sports coach so he has no reason to).
Didnt half of the intercounty managers refuse to speak to RTE cause some guy didnt get a commentating job, now this too me was a lot more serious, since when did the inner workings of a broadcaster have anything to do with county managers
Quotebut there are plenty of 'poacher turned gamekeepers' out there and in every clubs coaching/management staff !
There sure are ;) ;)
Quote from: J OGorman on September 24, 2012, 01:39:33 PM
'untruths' was the word McGuinness used, more diplomatic than saying lies. If he believes Bogue was telling lies, be it about McGuinness himself, his players, his setup, preparation, whatever, then he has every right to not entertain him. Fair fcuks, i would have done the same
Exactly what "untuths" was Bogue telling? Or are you too diplomatic to imply you think it was Cassidy telling the "untruths"?
And if so, exactly what untruths were these?
Quote from: Up The Middle on September 24, 2012, 02:12:34 PM
I think Jim was just right, it was Donegals and his day yesterday, if he was uncomfortable with someone being there then why should he continue (as a lot of you point out he is not a professional sports coach so he has no reason to).
Didnt half of the intercounty managers refuse to speak to RTE cause some guy didnt get a commentating job, now this too me was a lot more serious, since when did the inner workings of a broadcaster have anything to do with county managers
Indeed. And Mickey Harte and others were completely wrong in that stance.
Quote from: deiseach on September 24, 2012, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: stephenite on September 24, 2012, 03:41:42 AM
An absolute disgrace. Siobhan Brady should be sacked on the spot.
I'm also really disappointed that any colleagues didn't walk out in protest - whatever about failed entities on here, professional journalists should show a bit more backbone.
The villains of this piece are definitely the hacks. I can understand Jimmy McGuinness, flush with a victory where he is getting more credit than most, trying to exact revenge on someone who angered him. And I can understand Siobhan Brady thinking when put on the spot that ejecting Delcan Bogue was the lesser of two evils. But professional journalists, constantly griping that their craft is being undermined by keyboard warriors who care nothing for the facts, should have stood up for one of their own. Shameful.
I'm in complete agreement with you.
I can understand that McGuinness feels upset by what Bogue had to write about him but this was not the time or place to express his annoyance.
But I don't think he had the right to set the agenda for the press conference.
Any journalist worth his expenses shouldn't have agreed to go ahead with the interview when one of their colleagues was asked to leave the room.
Come to think of it, Bogue should have refused to leave as he was there as an accredited representative from the Belfast Telegraph.
Quote from: Sidney on September 24, 2012, 02:14:29 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on September 24, 2012, 01:39:33 PM
'untruths' was the word McGuinness used, more diplomatic than saying lies. If he believes Bogue was telling lies, be it about McGuinness himself, his players, his setup, preparation, whatever, then he has every right to not entertain him. Fair fcuks, i would have done the same
Exactly what "untuths" was Bogue telling? Or are you too diplomatic to imply you think it was Cassidy telling the "untruths"?
And if so, exactly what untruths were these?
McGuinness's words, not mine, hence the quotation marks.
There's nothing like siege mentality to get a manager going. Them and us. We'll show them. Alex Ferguson has done it for years & Joe Kernan was the same, they both took their issues with pundits and journalists to extremes, often too far, and Mickey Harte has had an ongoing dispute with RTE. The mentality works to an extent to bond teams with their manager but after a while it becomes a bit tired, the players don't all buy into it because they've seen it all before and it doesn't really matter what happens off the pitch, but they let the manager do his thing. I'd say some of the Donegal lads are a bit embarrassed about it, especially mates of Cassidy, and of course it's taken away from us all talking about their wonderful achievement. The problem may be that Jim is a very young manager and gets a bit wound up at times. Remember last year when he had a go at RTE pundits after the Cavan game? Then after they beat Tyrone he called all the players into the dressing-room at Clones after the game, taking them away from the media and leaving the media waiting another half-hour, by which time the players had cooled down and delivered all the same lines. Then Jim had a tiff with Geezer in Croke Park, then the whole Book episode right up to this on the greatest day of his football life. Put in context, Jim himself may come to think that he would have been better doing this somewhere down the line.
If Bogue had anything in him he should have offered McGuiness outside to settle it like men.
Did anybody see the belfast telegraph today?
Did declan bogue have an editorial??
What puzzles me about the Indo article is McGuinness's claim that Bogue hadn't done his research. Where else would you get research for this subject matter but from members of the Donegal panel or management? Is McGuinness now implying that Bogue should have got the views of more players, despite having thrown the one player who did give his view off the panel?
Quote from: deiseach on September 24, 2012, 01:39:45 PM
The villains of this piece are definitely the hacks. I can understand Jimmy McGuinness, flush with a victory where he is getting more credit than most, trying to exact revenge on someone who angered him. And I can understand Siobhan Brady thinking when put on the spot that ejecting Delcan Bogue was the lesser of two evils. But professional journalists, constantly griping that their craft is being undermined by keyboard warriors who care nothing for the facts, should have stood up for one of their own. Shameful.
I don't understand this perspective, deiseach.
McGuinness wouldnt talk when Bogue was there because he says Bogue wrote lies about him.
It would surely be pure stupidity for any other journalist to follow Bogue out. Unless they knew for a fact that he told no lies in his book. The journalists had a job to do.
Bogue wrote a book and presumably made some money from it. He got upside, now he's getting downside. Them's the risks you take when you don't get authorisation from your subject.
Quote from: Hound on September 24, 2012, 03:50:12 PM
I don't understand this perspective, deiseach.
McGuinness wouldnt talk when Bogue was there because he says Bogue wrote lies about him.
It would surely be pure stupidity for any other journalist to follow Bogue out. Unless they knew for a fact that he told no lies in his book. The journalists had a job to do.
Bogue wrote a book and presumably made some money from it. He got upside, now he's getting downside. Them's the risks you take when you don't get authorisation from your subject.
So for the journalists to stand by Declan Bogue, he'd have to prove he didn't tell "untruths" - the word "lie" wasn't used. If that's the standard by which every journalist is to be held, they should have all walked out because not one of them could do that about every article they've ever written.
Even decent guys enjoy getting their revenge and I say fair play to JMcG. He held his council rather than let the issue negatively affect the dynamics of what he was trying to acheive. I'm sure he feels he has good right to do what he done when it was all said and done.
He does indeed have the right to choose who he talks to. But with rights come responsibilites and, in this case, consequences that should have been enforced. No Bogue, no anybody, no press conference. I agree that the journalists acted like craven crawlers. Any group of workers worth their salt would show a bit of solidarity when one of their colleagues is singled out for victimisation, especially in public.
Quote from: Hardy on September 24, 2012, 04:07:02 PM
He does indeed have the right to choose who he talks to. But with rights come responsibilites and, in this case, consequences that should have been enforced. No Bogue, no anybody, no press conference. I agree that the journalists acted like craven crawlers. Any group of workers worth their salt would show a bit of solidarity when one of their colleagues is singled out for victimisation, especially in public.
Maybe the hacks were concerned that it would have exposed that no one gives a shit about what is said at these press conferences.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 24, 2012, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 24, 2012, 10:23:29 AM
The full indo article (apologies for lack of paragraphs, cutting and pasting from my phone.) Jim's language is extremely emotive. Having not read DB's book you would assume he wrote something very close to the bone in relation to JMcG, which doesn't add up to what those who have read it report. Strange.
Jim McGuinness had just completed perhaps the great coaching journey of the modern era in Gaelic football an hour earlier, but when he walked into the post-match press conference it quickly became obvious that he had something on his mind.The positivity that had radiated from him all season was absent as he fixed his stare on a stopwatch strapped to his arm, clearly gathering his thoughts. He rose from his chair and returned briefly to the ante room that links the TV interview area and the dressing-room corridor.A representative from the Croke Park press office then re-entered to deliver a request from McGuinness to Declan Bogue, the Ulster-based journalist who had collaborated with Kevin Cassidy for the controversial book 'This Is Our Year' that led to Cassidy's removal from the squad last November, to leave the room. Only if his request was acceded to, it emerged, would he return to conduct any print media interviews.When McGuinness re-entered the auditorium he gave the background to the request and why, after 10 months, he was now addressing the vexed issue of Cassidy's contribution and seeking the author's removal. Bogue had been to all of Donegal's post-match press conferences this summer without any disapproval from McGuinness and had even been to the Donegal media night in advance of the final three weeks earlier.But now McGuinness, with the journey complete, was delivering what he felt was the necessary riposte in their time of glory."There were a lot of untruths in the book. There was a lot of things said about me. I've never broken court on it since the whole thing happened. I've held my dignity. I've let myself be castigated. And I did that because I gave somebody an agreement that I wouldn't break my court on it.Incorrect"There were a lot of things said in the book that were incorrect and untrue, some of it about me personally and about some of my players. The person who wrote that book had no researcher on the book to qualify what was said. The other people in the media that wrote fairly vile articles had no researcher to qualify the comments. It was an all-out attack for a couple of months on my character. I know what I've done, I know what I've coached, I know what I am as a person."So I'm not going to let somebody sit in a room and fill their pages tomorrow on the back of what we've done today when they in their wisdom degraded me as a person and some of my players," said McGuinness. "I'm not a two-faced person, I'm not going to be two-faced here and let somebody have their jam on both sides. It was a very hard period in my life, for my family and everybody else and I still held my dignity."Pressed as to why he hadn't responded at the time of the book's launch, McGuinness said there was little comeback for him. "If I challenged it at the time, it makes the story bigger and the people who've read it in the first place have made up their minds about it anyway. So why would I go over old ground, creating a bigger story, making it bigger and bigger and bigger and the people who have read it in the first place will have their own view? I'm not going to answer any more about it."And there's another person who if he was here would be out of the room as well. It was absolutely vile what he wrote, all on falsehoods. Absolutely vile that you could get away with that and degrade somebody to that level and feel then that you can write another article to rectify the wrong."It's wrong that people should act in haste and repent at leisure. It's not hard to get a researcher on a book. That's the end of it. I'm leaving if there's another question."
Who is Jimmy referring to here?
Vincent Hogan from the Irish Indo; after he called Jim: "The leader of sheep" captioned by the infamous picture of the team in a huddle around Jim back in November 2011 when the Kevin Cassidy incident was in full swing. Vincent then made a half arsed apology just before the Cork game in August.
From The Irish Independent:
"Vincent Hogan: McGuinness a leader of sheep
Monday November 21 2011
So you are 27,000 feet above the Atlantic, the seat-belt sign finally dims and you un-buckle, taking the opportunity to stretch your legs. You turn into the aisle and, behind you, for maybe 10 rows either side, all the faces are familiar.
As they catch your eye, people instinctively smile. You are among men who have, essentially, gone to war for you. Now Florida and a hard-earned holiday looms.
So, you are Jim McGuinness, but what do you actually see? Warriors or disappointments?
Of course, you spit the question from your mind as quickly as it enters and find yourself mumbling some joke about a recovery session on touchdown. But you're intelligent enough to know that the laughter around you is a little forced, too. A little wooden.
Everything you sought from Donegal in 2011 was predicated on the tightness of the group.
Maybe Kevin Cassidy betrayed that tightness through his co-operation with Declan Bogue's book, 'This is Our Year'. Maybe he opened a window into your dressing-room that, everyone agrees now, might have been best kept closed.
But you know what you've done here, don't you? The moment you turfed Cassidy and his wife, Sarah, off this holiday, you unwittingly set a challenge to your players that, unpalatable as it may seem, they've now abysmally failed.
Because a group that could let you do what you've just done to one of their colleagues isn't exactly manly, is it? Fair enough, dropping Cassidy from the 2012 squad was your entitlement and you used it. But deciding that he and his wife weren't welcome on the team holiday? That, Jim, was the moment you stopped coming across as hurt and began to look vindictive.
For the players to comply with that, for them to -- seemingly -- protect their own right to a boarding card by turning their backs on a man whose contribution to Donegal's Championship run was -- let's face it -- epic is, in any objective analysis, damning.
Because nothing in Bogue's book embarrasses Donegal. Everything about the group's response to it does.
So be honest, Jim. The Ulster draw has set you a stark, mine-strewn path through next year's Championship. You'll need a team of proper men to stand up to the traumas that path throws your way. Look around the cabin now at Cassidy's former comrades and ask yourself one question.
Do you not see a group that, to placate you, has abandoned a fundamental principle?
I've read Bogue's book, incidentally, and it's terrific. Indiscreet in places, but then the best books usually are. I can certainly see why a Donegal manager might find Cassidy's candour with the author more than a little disquieting.
Ignore the fact that the players, reputedly, signed agreements of 'confidentiality'. That's something you should only recount in whispers from here on, frankly.
Anyway, what status did you imagine such a signature might hold, Jim?
As I see it, Cassidy comes across in the book as a warm, naive and maybe slightly impetuous character who, by season's end, would have walked bare-footed across hot coals if you asked him. True, his candid admission of targeting opposing free-takers with verbal abuse doesn't make especially pleasant reading.
Cassidy recalls sensing before this year's Ulster Championship game with Cavan that Donegal needed to find a meaner edge. "We weren't bad enough," he tells Bogue. "That's not going out and hitting off the ball, but getting in peoples' faces."
To this end, he fell under the 'YouTube' spell of an old Denver Broncos player, Brian 'Wolverine' Dawkins. According to Cassidy, "it just jumped out at me that this guy was exactly like half our team, a lovely lad off the field, but an animal on it."
On being acquainted with the Dawkins charm, Karl Lacey and Michael Murphy reputedly went to their manager, asking if, perhaps, Donegal could "introduce something like this".
The next line of the book is a little cryptic. It reads: "McGuinness went away and thought about the issue of mental toughness, before putting his own twist on it."
That 'twist', we are told, was the introduction of wristbands. Shocking.
Cassidy, incidentally, refuses to divulge the relevance of all the elements on the wristband, remarking, "that's the thing about trust in Donegal this year -- it won't get out. If it was a few years ago, everybody would know what they mean. It's a symbol of unity. We're in this together and we trust each other."
How the reader reconciles that view with McGuinness' subsequent insistence on the players handing over their mobile phones three hours before the All-Ireland semi-final against Dublin is anybody's guess.
Essentially, the Donegal story in 2011 comes across as top-heavy, with brutally tough training sessions interwoven with clunking little mind games, all geared to accentuate the group's unity.
Tactically, Cassidy doesn't spill any secrets that weren't already visible to the naked eye.
The image that comes across is of Donegal simply buying into the type of ruthlessness that their Ulster neighbours, Tyrone and Armagh, have been employing for years. Albeit a 14-man defence did constitute a bit of a novelty.
Maybe there's something we're not being told here.
Perhaps there's another, darker strand to the story of the man who kicked Donegal into the All-Ireland semi-final being so coldly abandoned by his team.
But, in the absence of such evidence, you can see why it comes across clumsy and graceless and, quite probably, self-defeating.
So, look around the cabin, Jim. If these boys can turn their backs on a comrade, simply to keep you happy, ask yourself what it identifies in them?
The loyalty of true brothers or the abject compliance of sheep?
Good luck in 2012.
Irish Independent"
I did not see any praise for what McGuinness had done for Donegal football in 2011 in that article,imo it was an attempt to denigrate the man,I doubt Hogan meant the "Good luck in 2012"parting shot,but McGuinness has the last laugh on that one.This is an example of what the media can do to you without anyone questioning them,McGuinness' "cabin" is today a palace of All Ireland Gold.How could Hogan show up yesterday evening after writing that,he was right to sidle away.The questions Hogan asked of the players were emphaticaly answered in Croke Park.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PUjYKIyEP6g/TIlOEaRSEwI/AAAAAAAADOM/xHA58T-C8Yk/s640/hacks.jpg)
Hacks, you gotta have one sometimes.
Quote from: Any craic on September 24, 2012, 02:37:11 PM
There's nothing like siege mentality to get a manager going. Them and us. We'll show them. Alex Ferguson has done it for years & Joe Kernan was the same, they both took their issues with pundits and journalists to extremes, often too far, and Mickey Harte has had an ongoing dispute with RTE. The mentality works to an extent to bond teams with their manager but after a while it becomes a bit tired, the players don't all buy into it because they've seen it all before and it doesn't really matter what happens off the pitch, but they let the manager do his thing. I'd say some of the Donegal lads are a bit embarrassed about it, especially mates of Cassidy, and of course it's taken away from us all talking about their wonderful achievement. The problem may be that Jim is a very young manager and gets a bit wound up at times. Remember last year when he had a go at RTE pundits after the Cavan game? Then after they beat Tyrone he called all the players into the dressing-room at Clones after the game, taking them away from the media and leaving the media waiting another half-hour, by which time the players had cooled down and delivered all the same lines. Then Jim had a tiff with Geezer in Croke Park, then the whole Book episode right up to this on the greatest day of his football life. Put in context, Jim himself may come to think that he would have been better doing this somewhere down the line.
You seem to be very aware of Mcguinness's actions after games last year
DB Any craic
I think Jim's came across as a total twat. He was a complete looper as an eternal student who now takes himself way too seriously, talking about coaching 'journeys.' He's done well with Donegal but let himself down with his actions yesterday i feel
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 11:40:43 PM
It was the fact that Siobhan Brady bent over which is disappointing. McGuinness made her evict Bogue. Brady should've stood up for the journalists and not the manager. She has now made this a press conference called by the manager.
How do you know what she said to him? Did she actually tell him to get out or did she simply explain the situation and he left of his own accord.
Quote from: stephenite on September 24, 2012, 03:41:42 AM
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 11:40:43 PM
It was the fact that Siobhan Brady bent over which is disappointing. McGuinness made her evict Bogue. Brady should've stood up for the journalists and not the manager. She has now made this a press conference called by the manager.
An absolute disgrace. Siobhan Brady should be sacked on the spot.
I'm also really disappointed that any colleagues didn't walk out in protest - whatever about failed entities on here, professional journalists should show a bit more backbone.
Why?
That hogan article is shocking and actually pretty offensive to all involved.
I wasn't sure what bogue did merited it so much but a person who writes that kind of poisonous bile deserves no respect.
When I came to Donegal and I saw Jimmy sulking
I told to myself: What the f*ck!?
All day, all night
All day, all night
Viva la fuball , viva la vendetta
No talking to the Belfast Telegraph
I couldn't believe what I was living
So I called my friend Johnny
And I said to him: Johnny,
La gente esta muy loca,
What the f*ck!?
Hogan's article is awful even if he hits at a central point when he says that McGuinness crossed a line by not allowing Cassidy on the team holiday. Managers have to make decisions to drop players and Cassidy being dropped is perhaps very harsh but Jim was in his rights - to not allow him to go on the holiday was a joke because he gave more than the majority of Donegal men over the course.
The rest of Hogan's article is vindictive and nasty, but still wouldn't merit him getting thrown out of a presser. Bogue's crimes have yet to be determined.
Six pages of this thread lads and no one has even come up with a suggestion as to what the 'untruths' were?
Has anyone any idea? He might not have been happy with what Cassidy revealed but they're unlikely to have been untruths and even if they were what did Bogue do wrong in printing them? He was hardly not going to trust Cassidy. I've read the book too and there is nothing even mildly critical of McGuinness in it I recall. Don't think he even gets credited with the tactic of trash talking free takers and the likes.
Very strange choice of phrase and actions from McGuinness.
I'm happy enough to accept that J McG knows why he holds yer man in such contempt. I don't want to know all the details and respect his right to not divulge anything more on the subject. He made his point/got his revenge and its time to move on. I very much doubt he's concocted untruths
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 24, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 11:40:43 PM
It was the fact that Siobhan Brady bent over which is disappointing. McGuinness made her evict Bogue. Brady should've stood up for the journalists and not the manager. She has now made this a press conference called by the manager.
How do you know what she said to him? Did she actually tell him to get out or did she simply explain the situation and he left of his own accord.
Malachy Clerkin said on the wireless this evening that it was the latter.
That brendan devenney lad should be locked up................a tool of the highest order, on twitter and off it
Bad enough we got to listen Alex ferguson, crying all the time he felt wronged, now we got Jim, we getting more and more like soccer every day. Good job Joe Brolly, Pat Spillane and O`Rourke, werent there, he be throwing everybody out. I remember Jim when i was at jordanstown, was abit of a party animal himself, so could never work out where the hard line stance every came out off. feel sorry for kevin cassidy though, maybe Donegal best defender along with Lacey past 7 or 8 yrs, and he missed out on an all ireland. Many will say its his own fault, but Mickey Harte had the balls to bring in Stephen O`Neill after some issues he had with Harte outside of football. Both saw the bigger picture. Bringing Cassidy back early in the year, and not going off on one yesterday would have us all seeing Jim in a better light and not like a control freak. Jim not be too worried though as he brought sam back to Donegal and in good fashion to.
Felt for Cassidy alright, even though he was an instigator in getting connolly sent off in last years semi.............................................donegal lads look scared shitless of mcguinness in particular murphy............................ i reckon he got each lad off the team buggered senselss and took photo proof to keep them in check ..................wink wink
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 24, 2012, 08:27:38 PM
Bad enough we got to listen Alex ferguson, crying all the time he felt wronged, now we got Jim, we getting more and more like soccer every day. Good job Joe Brolly, Pat Spillane and O`Rourke, werent there, he be throwing everybody out. I remember Jim when i was at jordanstown, was abit of a party animal himself, so could never work out where the hard line stance every came out off. feel sorry for kevin cassidy though, maybe Donegal best defender along with Lacey past 7 or 8 yrs, and he missed out on an all ireland. Many will say its his own fault, but Mickey Harte had the balls to bring in Stephen O`Neill after some issues he had with Harte outside of football. Both saw the bigger picture. Bringing Cassidy back early in the year, and not going off on one yesterday would have us all seeing Jim in a better light and not like a control freak. Jim not be too worried though as he brought sam back to Donegal and in good fashion to.
He asked Cassidy to come back in April.
Cassidy says he didn't want to bring a media circus down on the squad right before the championship and turned him down.
i seen in a earlier post that he was asked in April, but like Mickey Harte, i would have reapproached him late in the yr, J70 you not in Donegal town the night?
By the way, as one of the long time GAA Board posters - congratulations J70 - I hope you enjoyed it.
Dara O'Se has to be the best analyst of Gaelic Football at present.
He said a bit about his whole affair tonight on Today FM, and made it sound logical what McGuinness did - he wasn't saying McGuinness was right, more that if Kevin Cassidy was dropped and missing the AIF, what message would it have sent to the panel if JMG had allowed the whole occasion to pass without some retribution to the journalist who caused it.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on September 24, 2012, 11:50:31 PM
Dara O'Se has to be the best analyst of Gaelic Football at present.
He said a bit about his whole affair tonight on Today FM, and made it sound logical what McGuinness did - he wasn't saying McGuinness was right, more that if Kevin Cassidy was dropped and missing the AIF, what message would it have sent to the panel if JMG had allowed the whole occasion to pass without some retribution to the journalist who caused it.
Eh?
Dara was suggesting that this was a popularity stunt? Now it makes sense!
McGuinness realises that the knives will be out in Cassidy country - Gweedore? - about him losing out on an AI and him being probably the most deserving of Donegal players since 92. I get it now.
Didn t McEniff run into a storm for not playing - what s his name .......Tommy Ryan or something in 92?
Jimmy s got a conscience,
Jimmy's playing games!
The man s obviously very talented but ....... I m not sure that stunt will wash when he heads into Cassidy country.
Quote from: moysider on September 25, 2012, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on September 24, 2012, 11:50:31 PM
Dara O'Se has to be the best analyst of Gaelic Football at present.
He said a bit about his whole affair tonight on Today FM, and made it sound logical what McGuinness did - he wasn't saying McGuinness was right, more that if Kevin Cassidy was dropped and missing the AIF, what message would it have sent to the panel if JMG had allowed the whole occasion to pass without some retribution to the journalist who caused it.
Eh?
Dara was suggesting that this was a popularity stunt? Now it makes sense!
McGuinness realises that the knives will be out in Cassidy country - Gweedore? - about him losing out on an AI and him being probably the most deserving of Donegal players since 92. I get it now.
Didn t McEniff run into a storm for not playing - what s his name .......Tommy Ryan or something in 92?
Jimmy s got a conscience,
Jimmy's playing games!
The man s obviously very talented but ....... I m not sure that stunt will wash when he heads into Cassidy country.
:o
What does 2+2 equal where you come from sore hole?
Quote from: theskull1 on September 25, 2012, 12:47:20 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 25, 2012, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on September 24, 2012, 11:50:31 PM
Dara O'Se has to be the best analyst of Gaelic Football at present.
He said a bit about his whole affair tonight on Today FM, and made it sound logical what McGuinness did - he wasn't saying McGuinness was right, more that if Kevin Cassidy was dropped and missing the AIF, what message would it have sent to the panel if JMG had allowed the whole occasion to pass without some retribution to the journalist who caused it.
Eh?
Dara was suggesting that this was a popularity stunt? Now it makes sense!
McGuinness realises that the knives will be out in Cassidy country - Gweedore? - about him losing out on an AI and him being probably the most deserving of Donegal players since 92. I get it now.
Didn t McEniff run into a storm for not playing - what s his name .......Tommy Ryan or something in 92?
Jimmy s got a conscience,
Jimmy's playing games!
The man s obviously very talented but ....... I m not sure that stunt will wash when he heads into Cassidy country.
:o
What does 2+2 equal where you come from sore hole?
4 usually. What s your point?
Mine is that Dara is suggesting that McGuinness is appeasing Cassidy clan by blaming Bogue for Cassidy not being around for this.
If you re suggesting I may be bitter about Donegal beating us yesterday, you couldn t be more wrong. I ve a lot to be bitter about but not Donegal beating us.
Sore hole my hole. Asshole.
My point is that you're putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5. ::)
Dara OShea makes a comment regarding what happened yesterday which is more than likely totally inaccurate and then you go off on a roll with these assertions putting more meat (or is that quorn) on the hidden motivations of JMcG for doing what he did.
Very "hackish" if you ask me
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 24, 2012, 09:12:34 PM
i seen in a earlier post that he was asked in April, but like Mickey Harte, i would have reapproached him late in the yr, J70 you not in Donegal town the night?
Grew up a couple of miles from Donegal town, but living in NYC these days.
These are the days when you really miss it!
Quote from: Orior on September 24, 2012, 09:26:32 PM
By the way, as one of the long time GAA Board posters - congratulations J70 - I hope you enjoyed it.
Thanks Orior. Still sinking in! Honestly, I would have laughed if someone had suggested two years ago that we'd be champions within the next decade, never mind two years! Whatever people think about his reaction to Bogue and his book, McGuinness has worked wonders and brought a huge amount of pride and pleasure to a whole county, and for what he's done this year, he'll be a hero in Donegal for the rest of his days.
Quote from: moysider on September 25, 2012, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on September 24, 2012, 11:50:31 PM
Dara O'Se has to be the best analyst of Gaelic Football at present.
He said a bit about his whole affair tonight on Today FM, and made it sound logical what McGuinness did - he wasn't saying McGuinness was right, more that if Kevin Cassidy was dropped and missing the AIF, what message would it have sent to the panel if JMG had allowed the whole occasion to pass without some retribution to the journalist who caused it.
Eh?
Dara was suggesting that this was a popularity stunt? Now it makes sense!
McGuinness realises that the knives will be out in Cassidy country - Gweedore? - about him losing out on an AI and him being probably the most deserving of Donegal players since 92. I get it now.
Didn t McEniff run into a storm for not playing - what s his name .......Tommy Ryan or something in 92?
Jimmy s got a conscience,
Jimmy's playing games!
The man s obviously very talented but ....... I m not sure that stunt will wash when he heads into Cassidy country.
There was no blowback for McEniff in '92. How could there be? Tommy Ryan made way for Manus Boyle in the semi. Manus won us the game with his freetaking, which had been very erratic before he came on. Boyle kept his place for the final and scored 0-9, with 0-5 from play, in a man of the match performance. Tommy was very unlucky, but no one could fault McEniff given how it turned out.
Maybe players will listen to their managers and keep squad business quiet. Cassidy was an eejit, mc Guinness is entitled to have a go. Petty it seems to others but then again few on Here have a brain like mc Guinness. Ultimately cassidy was replaceable and that seemed to improve the team not weaken it
I could be completely wrong here, but was the book not the only sourceI heard mention of JMcG stopping off at the place where his brother died after the ulster final win last year. Nothing bad what bougue said. But if that was a private moment that only the guys present knew about then it is very close to the bone. Also if any details surrounding that are wrong, however insignificant they are, or even portraying Jim in a good light, then it would be hard to take.
I think Jim is taking alot of unfair stick here. To be honest I think him and Cassidy have shown alot of dignity throughout the whole episode. The media however have not. These things happen in football, move on.
this thread is a great comfort to me. For ages I thought I was the only one on here who loved the Belfast Telegraph and its unrivaled coverage of gaelic games
long live the 'Tele
I'm sure I heard on "It Says In The Papers" this morning that Bogue has a piece in the Indo today about the controversy, but I can't see it in the online version. Anyone see the print version? (I know. But you can say you saw it in the shop.)
Quote from: Hardy on September 25, 2012, 10:01:37 AM
I'm sure I heard on "It Says In The Papers" this morning that Bogue has a piece in the Indo today about the controversy, but I can't see it in the online version. Anyone see the print version? (I know. But you can say you saw it in the shop.)
It's in the print version. It might come online later at six o'clock - I was on a Eugene McGee watch over the summer and I think that's how they do it.
Quote from: moysider on September 25, 2012, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on September 24, 2012, 11:50:31 PM
Dara O'Se has to be the best analyst of Gaelic Football at present.
He said a bit about his whole affair tonight on Today FM, and made it sound logical what McGuinness did - he wasn't saying McGuinness was right, more that if Kevin Cassidy was dropped and missing the AIF, what message would it have sent to the panel if JMG had allowed the whole occasion to pass without some retribution to the journalist who caused it.
Eh?
Dara was suggesting that this was a popularity stunt? Now it makes sense!
McGuinness realises that the knives will be out in Cassidy country - Gweedore? - about him losing out on an AI and him being probably the most deserving of Donegal players since 92. I get it now.
Didn t McEniff run into a storm for not playing - what s his name .......Tommy Ryan or something in 92?
Jimmy s got a conscience,
Jimmy's playing games!
The man s obviously very talented but ....... I m not sure that stunt will wash when he heads into Cassidy country.
McGuinness met Cassidy @ his school earlier in the year to clear the air like gentlemen do. McGuinness asked Cassidy back onto the panel, Cassidy refused.
Cassidy country, Im sure he'll be fine and has the McGee trio to back him up.
2 + 2 = extreme bitterness
Let it slide
Watched the home coming last night on the rte new channel. Some crowds in in the square for such a dung night. they were late on the batter, but the '92 team didnt land til 1:30 in the am ! good times for the good folk of Donegal
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on September 25, 2012, 10:07:27 AM
Quote from: Hardy on September 25, 2012, 10:01:37 AM
I'm sure I heard on "It Says In The Papers" this morning that Bogue has a piece in the Indo today about the controversy, but I can't see it in the online version. Anyone see the print version? (I know. But you can say you saw it in the shop.)
It's in the print version. It might come online later at six o'clock - I was on a Eugene McGee watch over the summer and I think that's how they do it.
OK. Thanks, Iolar.
Quote from: moysider on September 25, 2012, 01:18:19 AM
Mine is that Dara is suggesting that McGuinness is appeasing Cassidy clan by blaming Bogue for Cassidy not being around for this.
That's a bit Machiavellian if you ask me. Jim didn't like the book. He didn't like the way he was portrayed ('untruths'). He bottled up his irritation but couldn't resist putting the boot in when flush with victory. There's no need to make it any more complicated than that
At the end of the day too it will do this fella Bogue no harm either. I'd say a lot more people will buy the "Indo" today knowing that he'll be writing about this in it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2012, 10:48:35 AM
At the end of the day too it will do this fella Bogue no harm either. I'd say a lot more people will buy the "Indo" today knowing that he'll be writing about this in it.
In the same way that Cassidy getting bucked off the panel probably meant people bought the book to see what all the fuss was about. Answer = Nothing.
Anyway, no-one could accuse Jim McGuinness of having a Messiah complex... ;)
(http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/5d/fb/0e/d7098925792cc031a6f44fb88f/INPHO_00020604.jpg)
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 25, 2012, 01:28:21 PM
Anyway, no-one could accuse Jim McGuinness of having a Messiah complex... ;)
(http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/5d/fb/0e/d7098925792cc031a6f44fb88f/INPHO_00020604.jpg)
The resemblance is striking:
(http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsR/14652-16143.jpg)
Whaddya mean, you were talking about some 2,000 years dead Levantine hippy?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=178064 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=178064)
I looked over the book last night again after Nigella was on and still for the life of me cannot see what troubled Jim and his family.
It seems to me that Jim wanted no one to chat about anything to do with the training regime or him or the team without his permission. Because Kevin did (albeit lightly), he's bringing anyone down who was involved.
Or maybe he wanted rid of Kevin anyway. Perhaps the Gaelic Life wrote something about him or his side he didn't like previous to that. We'll never know as he won't answer questions from Bogue himself.
Jim is entitled to do what he wants, and it has been successful for him, but he's being a bit of a dick.
She's some bit of gear for 50+
Quote from: deiseach on September 25, 2012, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 25, 2012, 01:18:19 AM
Mine is that Dara is suggesting that McGuinness is appeasing Cassidy clan by blaming Bogue for Cassidy not being around for this.
That's a bit Machiavellian if you ask me. Jim didn't like the book. He didn't like the way he was portrayed ('untruths'). He bottled up his irritation but couldn't resist putting the boot in when flush with victory. There's no need to make it any more complicated than that
That's basically it. Dara O'Shea's point was that Sunday was his only opportunity to do it, as if he had done it earlier in the championship it would have been distraction to what Donegal were trying to achieve. So he had to bide his time, and in the heat of the victory had his revenge. Not sure if it was a dish served cold, doesn't seem so.
Quote from: Mentalman on September 25, 2012, 03:12:19 PM
That's basically it. Dara O'Shea's point was that Sunday was his only opportunity to do it, as if he had done it earlier in the championship it would have been distraction to what Donegal were trying to achieve. So he had to bide his time, and in the heat of the victory had his revenge. Not sure if it was a dish served cold, doesn't seem so.
Nope, that dish was hotter than Hades!
My take on the whole episode is that Cassidy's interest in remaining on the Donegal panel was wavering, he had given his all for many years and the new regime was extremely taxing on his family and professional life. He had retired only a year before this book controversy arose and by assisting Bogue knew he was on a collision course with Jimmy McGuinness.
If the desire to play for Donegal still burned strong within Cassidy there is no way he could of turned down the invitation to return with the championship looming. Perhaps all the media work he was getting was more appealing. Anyway, he will always have his regrets whether he admits to them or not. A very good footballer who unfortunately misses out on that elusive medal.
Quote from: sheamy on September 25, 2012, 02:58:10 PM
She's some bit of gear for 50+
What did yiz think of the mizzas?
Anyway, it seems to me that vilifying somebody (literally) by accusing them of "vile" acts is a vile act in itself unless you have a very solid case for such an accusation, which Jimmy hasn't made, or even attempted to make, other than by bald and vague assertions.
Quote from: Hardy on September 25, 2012, 05:00:34 PM
Anyway, it seems to me that vilifying somebody (literally) by accusing them of "vile" acts is a vile act in itself unless you have a very solid case for such an accusation, which Jimmy hasn't made, or even attempted to make, other than by bald and vague assertions.
I read the Indo version of what McGuinness said and it is a real pity that the whole thing exploded in the media back when the book came out. Maybe McGuinness handled it badly initially but he did get a lot of abuse subsequently and he has a family and it's only fuball . I'm sure he would have been aware of what was being said online as well.
It doesn't reflect well on anyone, really.
Quote
I cannot allow Jim's crude accusations go unchallenged
Jim McGuinness would not proceed with Donegal's post-match All-Ireland press conference in Croke Park on Sunday until Belfast Telegraph GAA journalist DECLAN BOGUE, writerof the book 'This Is Our Year',left the room. Here, the writer responds in detail to the McGuinness claims about his award-winning book and insists that he stands over everything in it.
IT was a strange thing being on the other side of a door, knowing that inside, a platform is granted to someone calling your integrity into question.
So it was when Jim McGuinness requested that I leave the room before he would speak to journalists for his first press conference as an All-Ireland-winning manager -- his reason being a book I wrote called 'This Is Our Year', which took representatives from each Ulster county for the 2011 season.
The format of the book took accounts of players from each county -- and the joint Cavan management of the time -- and weaved them through a narrative.
Therefore we do not get a mere interview with Donegal's Kevin Cassidy, or two-time All Star Barry Owens, who battled back from two cruciate injuries and a heart operation to captain Fermanagh, or whoever else, but through their stories we get to share their experiences and life as an inter-county footballer.
To bring alive these men as three-dimensional characters, showing that they are human and have lives outside the sport in today's age of virulent criticism.
You think Paddy Cunningham is hiding in behind his marker? Well, Paddy was suffering from Crohn's Disease in 2011. It was that level of depth that I sought in order to give readers a greater understanding of inter-county demands. It was written with honourable intentions.
By virtue of Donegal's success, as well as his own fascinating backstory, his open nature and his humour, Cassidy emerged as the most prominent character. After the book was published, he was expelled from the Donegal panel.
It has been to his absolute credit that Kevin has stood by everything he said in his account.
I cannot say I know Jim McGuinness as a person, but while I wrote the book I found myself constantly in awe of what he was doing in Donegal, how he was driving a movement.
From the outside, the verdict of Cassidy was that he was a source of inspiration. Testimonies from current Donegal players leading up to the final confirm this.
The job he has now completed has been exceptional. The Donegal team and management should be rightly proud of everything they have done. In interviewing players on press nights and after games this season, I have found them to be unfailingly polite men. They deserve everything coming to them. But the accusations made in Monday's newspapers must not go unchallenged.
After Sunday's final, I took my place in the press conference, just as I had for the quarter-final and semi-final that Donegal were involved in. It was made known to me that Jim would not talk to reporters while I remained in the room. With their deadlines in mind, I left as discreetly as possible.
Without the prospect of being challenged, Jim then talked about the book. Just as he had at a pre-championship chat night in Armagh. After a while, he refused to take questions on the matter.
It was bullying and grandstanding. Plain and simple.
It was stated that I had no researcher on the book, which is an odd concept. Taking first-person accounts on a season was the format of the book. To question this is to question the honesty of Kevin Cassidy's version of events.
As for mention of vile attacks on Jim's character, I do not believe there is a case, as 'This Is Our Year' is nothing short of a eulogy to the management of Donegal in 2011. With absolute certainty, I say that nobody was "degraded" by the book.
No doubt, last winter must have been hard, with a number of opinion columns strongly disagreeing with his stance on Kevin's dismissal from the team and subsequent banning from the Donegal team holiday. These conditions inspired the columns, none of which were written by myself.
Other players talked about their experiences, travails and frustrations, but no other manager felt the need to react in this way. It was only a book, after all.
What am I responsible for? I don't know. Jim has never referenced specifics. It is this crude treatment that should be challenged, as should the precedent of a manager ejecting a reporter from a press conference. Calls for an apology are strange when the author is unaware of where the offence lies.
I challenge people to read the book. This is not an appeal for sales, but a desire for honesty. Read Jim's quotes by all means, but then read the book and see if you can reconcile his pain with the content.
I completely stand over this book and have nothing to apologise for.
Going by anecdotal evidence since 'This Is Our Year' was published, the overwhelming view is that it is a remarkably positive tale for Donegal management, players and fans.
Before a single copy of the book was in the country, players and members of their families were banned from attending the launch in Gweedore. The Anglo-Celt Cup, booked by Kevin for the occasion, was confiscated. It was an extraordinary turn of events.
It was set in turn by a hurt and a rage that manifested itself even in the moment of greatest triumph in Croke Park on Sunday.
But in the book that has created all this nonsense, Ross Carr had an interesting take on dealing with hurt.
"Certain things happen," he said, "that you catch yourself on. If you keep being that bitter, the only people that suffer are the people that feel the bitterness."
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/i-cannot-allow-jims-crude-accusations-go-unchallenged-3240533.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/i-cannot-allow-jims-crude-accusations-go-unchallenged-3240533.html)
This one will run and run.
i haven't read the book and wouldn't purely because it's only lining his pockets and i'd rather trust mcg's view of it. he runs our show and should not have his running of the team affected by the whims and needs of a journo. it's not rocket science.
doesn't look good on bogue that he doesn't even acknowledge this could be an issue never mind fessing up to that simple fact either. a bollocks.
Quote from: LeoMc on September 24, 2012, 11:38:17 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2012, 10:54:05 AM
I'm not sure what McGuinness was at. Like or loathe the media, they are an utterly invaluable part of the GAA world.
Darren Clarke's approach was much better - plus he said it with a smile on his face.
"Hang on I'm trying to recollect your little line. 'He's in his inexorable slide toward irrelevance.' Is that what you said? I've got the paper at home. I can show it to you if you don't believe me." – Darren Clarke to Lawrence Donegan after his Open Championship win.
same fella
Is that the same Lawrence Donegan of Creeshlough Reserves / Lloyd Cole fame?
Quote from: cadence on September 25, 2012, 06:13:59 PM
i haven't read the book and wouldn't purely because it's only lining his pockets and i'd rather trust mcg's view of it. he runs our show and should not have his running of the team affected by the whims and needs of a journo. it's not rocket science.
doesn't look good on bogue that he doesn't even acknowledge this could be an issue never mind fessing up to that simple fact either. a bollocks.
If ever an opening line made the rest of a post redundant!..
I cant recall anything major in it that was directed at Jim.. Maybe there were a few jibes in it, but they passed me by when reading it.. It was the stories way before Jim's reign that probably made more of an imprint on people..
Why was the book launched in Gweedore?
Bogue stirred the pot on the affair which was a distraction to those involved in squad. He maximised exposure for himself and book. And once again, it continues!
There's no such thing as bad publicity as far as the book is concerned!
One thing for sure mc Guinness has drawn a line in the sand and there will be no renegades running to the press or "hooring" themselves on twitter ( unlike some counties)
Mc Guinness whether right or wrong is entitled to run his team as he sees fit. Results count and setting the example of what happens within the squad stays within the squad has been vindicated.
Quote from: cadence on September 25, 2012, 06:13:59 PM
i haven't read the book and wouldn't purely because it's only lining his pockets and i'd rather trust mcg's view of it. he runs our show and should not have his running of the team affected by the whims and needs of a journo. it's not rocket science.
doesn't look good on bogue that he doesn't even acknowledge this could be an issue never mind fessing up to that simple fact either. a bollocks.
Get it out of the library mucker, ye can order it no problem if it is not in yer local library.
I gotta wile feeling in 24 years time or such we are going to find out the truth.
Reading Bogues' piece there , he comes across truthful and willing to answer questions, he even asks people to read the article in the book and come up with their own opinion. McGuinness says there are 'untruths' , but I cant see them in black and white myself; maybe something was vocally said behind the scenes.
Quote from: Bensars on September 25, 2012, 06:54:56 PM
Why was the book launched in Gweedore?
Bogue stirred the pot on the affair which was a distraction to those involved in squad. He maximised exposure for himself and book. And once again, it continues!
There's no such thing as bad publicity as far as the book is concerned!
One thing for sure mc Guinness has drawn a line in the sand and there will be no renegades running to the press or "hooring" themselves on twitter ( unlike some counties)
Mc Guinness whether right or wrong is entitled to run his team as he sees fit. Results count and setting the example of what happens within the squad stays within the squad has been vindicated.
Book done in Gweedore........................
Donegal were Ulster champions
Kevin Cassidy was from Gweedore and played a big part in winning the cup
Kevin Cassidy had a huge input in the book
the whole incident will work out to every ones advantage - Jimmy would have no doubt used the episode to galvanise the team, and augment team spirit for the run up to sunday, and would have been a deadly reminder to those others who would have thought to step out of line, and DB gets island wide coverage and exposure for a marginal media outlet, that they would never have paid for. Oh yes and more publicity for the book
I can see a kiss and make up exclusive in the irish mail on sunday by november
Strong rumours that Bogue and McGuinness have a single coming out for Christmas. Bogue is doing Eminem style rapping whilst Jimmy has the Dido lines. Should be good.
Anyone who hasn't read the book can't really give an opinion as to whether McGuinness was correct or not to do what he did on Sunday. Paddy Cunningham criticised his own management and Baker threw his eyes up at it. Cassidy said nothing but good about Jimmy and McGuinness decided to use that to stock up on motivational fodder for the follow year's campaign at the expense of his captain. In my opinion, and I've never met Jimmy, as a sports psychologist McGuinness knew exactly what he was doing. If you read the book that'll be clear. There's not a jot of offence in it.
Jimmy could easily have said nothing about it, pulled Kevin aside and said 'please don't be telling people we do a lot of running in training'. He chose to make an issue of it and off-loaded Kevin to send a message to his side - purely for psychological reasons (again in my opinion). It worked but Sunday's charade was all part of the McGuinness show - again at the expense of a journalist who simply interviewed 9 county men for a book, told through their eyes.
I've bumped into Declan Bogue a few times. That maybe colours my take on it but it's justified. He's not your stereotype when you think of a 'hack'. He's an honest, decent fellow - always above board - the sort of lad who'll never get above his station or play games with people for his own end. That's why I'd back him to the hilt on this. He did nothing wrong.
Quote from: ONeill on September 25, 2012, 07:15:27 PM
Strong rumours that Bogue and McGuinness have a single coming out for Christmas. Bogue is doing Eminem style rapping whilst Jimmy has the Dido lines. Should be good.
Anyone who hasn't read the book can't really give an opinion as to whether McGuinness was correct or not to do what he did on Sunday. Paddy Cunningham criticised his own management and Baker threw his eyes up at it. Cassidy said nothing but good about Jimmy and McGuinness decided to use that to stock up on motivational fodder for the follow year's campaign at the expense of his captain. In my opinion, and I've never met Jimmy, as a sports psychologist McGuinness knew exactly what he was doing. If you read the book that'll be clear. There's not a jot of offence in it.
Jimmy could easily have said nothing about it, pulled Kevin aside and said 'please don't be telling people we do a lot of running in training'. He chose to make an issue of it and off-loaded Kevin to send a message to his side - purely for psychological reasons (again in my opinion). It worked but Sunday's charade was all part of the McGuinness show - again at the expense of a journalist who simply interviewed 9 county men for a book, told through their eyes.
I've bumped into Declan Bogue a few times. That maybe colours my take on it but it's justified. He's not your stereotype when you think of a 'hack'. He's an honest, decent fellow - always above board - the sort of lad who'll never get above his station or play games with people for his own end. That's why I'd back him to the hilt on this. He did nothing wrong.
For an innocent abroad Bogue pulled off quite a coup in getting Cassidy to come outside McGuinness' tighly knit group and talk,perhaps he was too innocent to realize there would be repercussions,then again maybe not.
Talk about what though?
No one would have guessed there would be repercussions having read it. You'd maybe have been worried about other players and what they said about the season but Cassidy's was a riveting tale about his season coming back from retirement. It wasn't about Jimmy. Possibly Kevin talking about contacting motivators or personal trainers outside of Jimmy hurt McGuinness's feelings. Perhaps when he told the story of Jimmy making them all lie down in a dark room before a match whilst he chatted to them about what they have to do and some of the players nodding off to sleep with their ipods in it, irked Jimmy. It's a mystery. Other Donegal players have since gone to press this year about their remarkable dietary requirements under Jimmy and spoke of other things. Where are the boundaries? Was it because Jimmy wasn't aware of it? We'll never know.
he did plenty wrong. he influenced one of our best players to break confidentiality. what goes on in teams and groups has to stay private to protect those within the group from being exposed and judged from outside. it's not an easy thing to be honest and transparent about your own failings within a group situation. participants need to be able to feel safe and know that they are protected. break this trust and the group is no longer a sfae and protective space. this damages the group's ability to be an honest and transparent environment and a truly reflective one that analyses what it should be analysing and seeking to improve becasue participants are afraid.
bogue may have genuinely unawares of the damage he was potentially doing in that he wasn't wilfully doing something he knew would be damaging for the squad. but this just shows he's really not that self-reflective and his ethics on the damage he was potentially doing, without the consent of the man running the show, jmcg. it would have been quite easy for him to talk to jmcg about his plans. but he plowed on regardless, only interested in his own project as opposed of those who could have been potentially affected negatively by his project. of course he can write what he likes as long as it is within article 12 human rights, he may proceed, but with caution, as it is equally jmg's rights to pull the carpet from under him and deny access on the grounds that he is acting just as lawfully and is protecting what he values, the donegal football team.
His book wasnt about Jim McGuinness or Donegal. It was about intercounty players, one of whom was Kevin Cassidy. J McG has done fantastically, and deserves every plaudit he gets, but he needs to get over himself on this one.
wrong. bogue got a player to breach confidentiality/break team ground rules. the subject matter is coincidental. everything stays in-house without exception. thems the rules for obvious reasons and it's not difficult to understand and see the need to adhere to them. not recognising these simple facts is disingenuous.
Quote from: cadence on September 25, 2012, 08:30:29 PM
wrong. bogue got a player to breach confidentiality/break team ground rules. the subject matter is coincidental. everything stays in-house without exception. thems the rules for obvious reasons and it's not difficult to understand and see the need to adhere to them. not recognising these simple facts is disingenuous.
LOL u claiming that he used interrogation like methods to prise the info out of Cassidys mouth. Think u may be overvaluing Declans intimidating and threatening nature .
Have the book, Jimmy's bein a tit.
Quote from: cadence on September 25, 2012, 08:30:29 PM
wrong. bogue got a player to breach confidentiality/break team ground rules. the subject matter is coincidental. everything stays in-house without exception. thems the rules for obvious reasons and it's not difficult to understand and see the need to adhere to them. not recognising these simple facts is disingenuous.
Really? Without exception? Are you privy to this information? What about any interviews given this year from Donegal players regarding training or diets? When Rory Kavanagh gave the interview about McGuinness regarding his diagrams and putting them into practice to simulate various plays as well as his dietary needs as directed by McGuinness - is that breaking ground rules?
Quote from: cadence on September 25, 2012, 08:30:29 PM
wrong. bogue got a player to breach confidentiality/break team ground rules. the subject matter is coincidental. everything stays in-house without exception. thems the rules for obvious reasons and it's not difficult to understand and see the need to adhere to them. not recognising these simple facts is disingenuous.
But you are obviously talking shite. Jimmy didnt censure Bogue for coaxing Cassidy to break the squad omerta. He referred to "untruths", being "castigated", being "degraded as a person". Jimmy surely must have learnt, after his 30 years at college, the importance of specifically referencing quotes. Maybe you can make reference to the sections of the book he refers to.
I read that book closely; loved the insight into each of the teams preparations. It was end of year, all the football played and there was nothing in the book in my opinion to take such offence from. It was a great read and I think McGuinness went over the top in his demand that he be removed.
The GAA in Croker and the other journalists should have a hard look at their response.
McGuinness has been brilliant for Donegal and the game and he made a lot sense this week about Eugene McGee's football committee but he erred on this one. Looks petty and spiteful. Move on.
What goes on in the dressing room, should stay there....without exception, and especially if the manager has made it plain to ALL players that there should be no loose chat.
Its hardly Declan Bogues fault that Kevin Cassidy decided to spill the beans...its a small story that has been exaggerated because of the airtime that Jim MC gave it on Sunday. He waited along time to put the knife in. Intentional, or spur of the moment? Who knows?
Its about respect for the team - and i see jim Mcguinness position here.
But its also Declan Bogues job to find those kind of stories...to slag of journalists here is abit extreme, as it is ultimately them who give us the fodder and shite for here...theirs is a contentious job, and the less contentious they are the less interesting they are...
Personally, I find it hard to have a player talk about stuff of a team nature - especially when that player is still playing for that team - same as cavanagh punditing on the BBC about how they do things with tyrone etc...maybe slightly different, but im trying to support a point
Its all a bit of a storm in a rather large tea cup
Well there are two sides to every story and so far the only side we've really seen is Bogue's. The book is an excellent read but until J McG gives his full side of the story I'll not be jumping to conclusions.
Don't understand the cynicism directed towards McGuinness, he runs a tight ship and that was apparent right from the start of his reign, why chastise the man? He's turned Donegal's fortunes around completely, he deserves nothing but praise.
Winning an All-Ireland isn't like going to confessions, Fitz.
Quite liked the book. If McGuinness thought Cassidy was breaking team guidelines then he's entitled to kick him out, but blaming the journalist is kind of petty, he's only doing his job.
Wonder if the player's in the book got any money out of it?
Quote from: deiseach on September 24, 2012, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: stephenite on September 24, 2012, 03:41:42 AM
An absolute disgrace. Siobhan Brady should be sacked on the spot.
I'm also really disappointed that any colleagues didn't walk out in protest - whatever about failed entities on here, professional journalists should show a bit more backbone.
The villains of this piece are definitely the hacks. I can understand Jimmy McGuinness, flush with a victory where he is getting more credit than most, trying to exact revenge on someone who angered him. And I can understand Siobhan Brady thinking when put on the spot that ejecting Delcan Bogue was the lesser of two evils. But professional journalists, constantly griping that their craft is being undermined by keyboard warriors who care nothing for the facts, should have stood up for one of their own. Shameful.
How many times do people have to be told
SIOBHAN BRADY DID NOT EJECT DECLAN BOGUE This is what Bogue himself wrote in the Indo:
'After Sunday's final, I took my place in the press conference, just as I had for the quarter-final and semi-final that Donegal were involved in," Bogue revealed. "It was made known to me that Jim would not talk to reporters while I remained in the room. With their deadlines in mind, I left as discreetly as possible.'
Mcguinness banned attendance of his players at the book launch before a copy was on sale. How did he know it was full of lies at that stage. My opinion is Jim is a power freak and a bully. His nasty behaviour puts a sour taste on what should be a joyous occasion.
This isn't about McGuinness and Donegal. This is about the relationship between the GAA and the media. To what extent are the media allowed to write about players?
Quote from: cadence on September 25, 2012, 07:53:47 PM
what goes on in teams and groups has to stay private to protect those within the group from being exposed and judged from outside. it's not an easy thing to be honest and transparent about your own failings within a group situation. participants need to be able to feel safe and know that they are protected. break this trust and the group is no longer a sfae and protective space. this damages the group's ability to be an honest and transparent environment and a truly reflective one that analyses what it should be analysing and seeking to improve becasue participants are afraid.
With the greatest respect Cadence, that sounds more like it's for survivors of the Magdelen Laundries than a football team.
My guess - and it's only guess - that McGuinness feels guilty about throwing Cassidy under the bus. As O'Neill says, other players have "broken confidentiality" by talking about their diets and what-nots and they don't sleep with the fishes. McGuinness was emotional after the All-Ireland and threw the rattle. Fair enough. I was emotional myself.
The best thing that can happen to this is for McGuinness to send Bogue a Christmas card and then do a exclusive Christmas-with-Sam piece for the Telegraph or whatever.
On the big picture, the GAA needs to start looking at media access and the needs of both sides. Having press nights two weeks before the All-Ireland means everything you read before the game is guaranteed to be shite. The people deserve better, and the games deserve to be chronicled correctly.
McGuinness shouldn't be allowed to get away with this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V581Otb3VI
Quote from: ONeill on September 25, 2012, 11:01:32 PM
McGuinness shouldn't be allowed to get away with this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V581Otb3VI
The boys pushing Jim up to sing should check their doors and windows are locked tonight.
It's getting personal now.....................slagging his singing. O'Neill you have gone too far mucker.
That clip definitely proved to me what a bully and power freak the man really is
Daniel was looking longingly at Jim a bit too much I thought.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 25, 2012, 10:41:07 PM
Mcguinness banned attendance of his players at the book launch before a copy was on sale. How did he know it was full of lies at that stage. My opinion is Jim is a power freak and a bully. His nasty behaviour puts a sour taste on what should be a joyous occasion.
I wouldn't mind that bully running my county team, though.
Quote from: ONeill on September 25, 2012, 11:10:12 PM
Daniel was looking longingly at Jim a bit too much I thought.
He did sing 'Secret Love' at one stage.
Jimmy Fancy bulling our way til Sam?
Quote from: ONeill on September 25, 2012, 11:01:32 PM
McGuinness shouldn't be allowed to get away with this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V581Otb3VI
Now that really is 'vile' and 'offensive'
In my opinion or rather my theory on this is that this is the first move by McGuinness to retaining the All-Ireland next year.
Last year (2010) he installed an unbelieveable strenght of mind in the players and had put a huge emphasis on the group and trust within that. When he seen Cassidy break that, he had to cut him loose to re-enforce his position as leader and move on to the next level and make it clear they have unfinished business and that trust must still be unbroken.
As it proved this worked and no doubt the "good teams win the All-Ireland, great teams win more than one" mantra was in his thoughts. His removal or request of removal of this journo ensured that the breach of trust was fresh in everyones mind and that such breachs in this period after the All-Ireland will not be tolerated, as the thrist of info on what Donegal do will be greater than every before.
Well thats my theory on it :D
Kerry are the only team to retain the GAA fuball all Ireland in the last 20 years.
What has been interesting about the last few years is the number of different teams that won it.
Next year will be more of the same.
If they start drinking water and tea at the functions with Sam come December, Ill believe the donegal lads are deadly serious about retaining..................................some dublin gombeens are still hungover over from 2011 ;)
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 25, 2012, 10:39:31 PM
How many times do people have to be told SIOBHAN BRADY DID NOT EJECT DECLAN BOGUE This is what Bogue himself wrote in the Indo:
'After Sunday's final, I took my place in the press conference, just as I had for the quarter-final and semi-final that Donegal were involved in," Bogue revealed. "It was made known to me that Jim would not talk to reporters while I remained in the room. With their deadlines in mind, I left as discreetly as possible.'
Okay, neither Siobhan Brady or anyone else in the GAA insisted he be removed, happy to correct the record on that score (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0925/1224324358322.html):
QuoteTHE GAA communications department yesterday explained why an accredited reporter was asked to leave Donegal's post-match press conference last Sunday.
Donegal's All-Ireland-winning manager Jim McGuinness refused to speak on the record until Belfast Telegraph journalist Declan Bogue left the room.
After being informed of this by a GAA official, Bogue departed.
"Jim McGuinness, like all the other people involved in our games, are amateur sports people," said GAA communications manager Alan Milton. "They are not under contract or obliged to speak to anyone they do not wish to speak to."
Asked if this has set a precedent, Milton replied: "We'll look into what happened but the basic principle of the matter remains the same regardless of what stance or protocol we take.
"We are facilitators on the day between professional journalists and non-professional sports people. We are grateful for both players and managers for their utmost co-operation on 99 per cent of occasions – win, lose or draw. Yesterday was a very rare event post-match where a stance was taken by an individual. While it wasn't ideal from our perspective he is entirely entitled to take the stance he took."
Quote from: Bingo on September 26, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
In my opinion or rather my theory on this is that this is the first move by McGuinness to retaining the All-Ireland next year.
Last year (2010) he installed an unbelieveable strenght of mind in the players and had put a huge emphasis on the group and trust within that. When he seen Cassidy break that, he had to cut him loose to re-enforce his position as leader and move on to the next level and make it clear they have unfinished business and that trust must still be unbroken.
As it proved this worked and no doubt the "good teams win the All-Ireland, great teams win more than one" mantra was in his thoughts. His removal or request of removal of this journo ensured that the breach of trust was fresh in everyones mind and that such breachs in this period after the All-Ireland will not be tolerated, as the thrist of info on what Donegal do will be greater than every before.
Well thats my theory on it :D
Was thinking the same thing. Going after Bogue so publicly means he doesn't have to sacrifice a squad member (for the greater good) later on.
All part of building a siege mentality for next year.
Quote from: Bingo on September 26, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
In my opinion or rather my theory on this is that this is the first move by McGuinness to retaining the All-Ireland next year.
Interesting theory. Do you really think he's being that cold-blooded about it?
Football is taken way too seriously nowadays. The almost cult like status surrounding some of these panels has reached ridiculous levels and my own county are one of the worst offenders. This craic of not talking to the media and locking the gates while the panel are training so that they can gain some sort of mythical "edge" is starting to border on the farcical.
I admire what McGuinness has done in transforming his county's footballing fortunes but he should get over himself on this issue.
Quote from: deiseach on September 26, 2012, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: Bingo on September 26, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
In my opinion or rather my theory on this is that this is the first move by McGuinness to retaining the All-Ireland next year.
Interesting theory. Do you really think he's being that cold-blooded about it?
I would think so. Its his profession and it seems that he is totally focussed on this job and all that it entails. He seems to be the person who plans everything to a fine level and nothing is left to chance. He was ruthless in removing Cassidy and putting a journo out of the room is way less of a sacrifice to him. His view could well be that the biggest threat that he'll face over the coming months is the media and he is laying his cards on the table now.
Springs back to the old days of the Liverpool boot room where it was often said that hours after lifting the league, they'd be back planning for next season.
One question that may reveal a few things.
Was Sunday the first press conference that was held after a Donegal game that Bogue attended? My information from someone who was there said that when McGuinness scanned the room, spotted Bogue, fiddled with his watch and then left. Did he do this every press conference?
Quote from: ck on September 26, 2012, 11:13:21 AM
One question that may reveal a few things.
Was Sunday the first press conference that was held after a Donegal game that Bogue attended? My information from someone who was there said that when McGuinness scanned the room, spotted Bogue, fiddled with his watch and then left. Did he do this every press conference?
No, he attended many other press conferences with McGuinness during the year and the media night before the All-ireland. McGuinness addressed this in the press conference if you look at what he said on the matter.
Quote from: ck on September 26, 2012, 11:13:21 AM
One question that may reveal a few things.
Was Sunday the first press conference that was held after a Donegal game that Bogue attended? My information from someone who was there said that when McGuinness scanned the room, spotted Bogue, fiddled with his watch and then left. Did he do this every press conference?
doesn't sound like a pre-meditated beginning to the campaign for Sam 2013...maybe more a case of the head staggers?
Ewan MacKenna reporting on Twitter that McGuinness didn't even visit the Mayo dressing room after the game. Very hard to warm to him.
Massive respect for his achievements, but Jim is starting to make Kieran McGeeney look like Johnny Pilkington.
I doubt he has anything against Mayo if he didn't visit the dressing room, He was full of praise for Mayo in the build up to the game, doubt it was mind games by saying that. He said he wouldn't begrudge Mayo winning either, as they had suffered lots of defeats in the past.
Maybe he was just buzzing after winning, and forget about his duties of visting the loser's dressing room...
Donegal stayed on the pitch until the stadium was nearly empty, soaking it all, as they say. is there any chance Mayo could have left the place by the time Donegal decided to go and change?
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 27, 2012, 12:55:40 PM
I doubt he has anything against Mayo if he didn't visit the dressing room, He was full of praise for Mayo in the build up to the game, doubt it was mind games by saying that. He said he wouldn't begrudge Mayo winning either, as they had suffered lots of defeats in the past.
Maybe he was just buzzing after winning, and forget about his duties of visting the loser's dressing room...
Declan Bogue might disagree with that !
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 27, 2012, 12:55:40 PM
I doubt he has anything against Mayo if he didn't visit the dressing room, He was full of praise for Mayo in the build up to the game, doubt it was mind games by saying that. He said he wouldn't begrudge Mayo winning either, as they had suffered lots of defeats in the past.
Maybe he was just buzzing after winning, and forget about his duties of visting the loser's dressing room...
That's the problem with all that ould shite. If it's a spontaneous gesture, it's an admirable thing to do. If it's a duty, what's the point? Who wants to sit in a losers' dressing room listening to banalities from a man who doesn't want to be there either and who's just mouthing empty platitudes? Scrap it, along with the cúpla focal, the hip-hipping and any other ould nonsense perpetrated on these occasions without any thought for whether it means anything or is just formulaic or, worse, patronising bullshit.
Three cheers for Hardy!
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 27, 2012, 12:55:40 PM
I doubt he has anything against Mayo if he didn't visit the dressing room, He was full of praise for Mayo in the build up to the game, doubt it was mind games by saying that. He said he wouldn't begrudge Mayo winning either, as they had suffered lots of defeats in the past.
Maybe he was just buzzing after winning, and forget about his duties of visting the loser's dressing room...
That's the problem with all that ould shite. If it's a spontaneous gesture, it's an admirable thing to do. If it's a duty, what's the point? Who wants to sit in a losers' dressing room listening to banalities from a man who doesn't want to be there either and who's just mouthing empty platitudes? Scrap it, along with the cúpla focal, the hip-hipping and any other ould nonsense perpetrated on these occasions without any thought for whether it means anything or is just formulaic or, worse, patronising bullshit.
I don't think it was mind games or some pre-medidated decision either. But there is something to be said for etiquette in every sport. The overwhelming majority of managers who've visited our changing rooms over the years (in winning or defeat) have done so not to be patronising, but to pass on regards either way. And it's welcomed and appreciated by players. The words of your opponent's senior figure do actually count for something.
Your manager is the role model for how your team behaves. Professionalism is one thing, creating a divide between you and your sport is another.
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 27, 2012, 12:55:40 PM
I doubt he has anything against Mayo if he didn't visit the dressing room, He was full of praise for Mayo in the build up to the game, doubt it was mind games by saying that. He said he wouldn't begrudge Mayo winning either, as they had suffered lots of defeats in the past.
Maybe he was just buzzing after winning, and forget about his duties of visting the loser's dressing room...
That's the problem with all that ould shite. If it's a spontaneous gesture, it's an admirable thing to do. If it's a duty, what's the point? Who wants to sit in a losers' dressing room listening to banalities from a man who doesn't want to be there either and who's just mouthing empty platitudes? Scrap it, along with the cúpla focal, the hip-hipping and any other ould nonsense perpetrated on these occasions without any thought for whether it means anything or is just formulaic or, worse, patronising bullshit.
I think the hip hip should be dumped along with Ger Canning. Cúpla focal only if the captain has the blas.
Visiting the losing dressingroom isn't confined to the gah and is a decent gesture i.m.o.
Surreal post-match strop at Croker left McGuinness down
By Paddy Heaney
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
— George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionists
Like many revolutionaries and ultra-successful football managers, Jim McGuinness is an unreasonable man.
The progress he has made with Donegal is astonishing. In July 2010, he inherited a Division Two team that embarrassed themselves in that year's Championship. Two years later, he has guided the same bunch of players to the All-Ireland football title.
It's is the greatest managerial achievement in the modern era of Gaelic football. To reach the Hogan Stand in September, McGuinness moulded the game to suit the skills of his players. He also moulded his players so that they could execute his masterplan. In short, he adapted the game to himself.
The players coached by progress-makers like Jim McGuinness, Alex Ferguson and José Mourinho are the greatest beneficiaries. If the players follow the plan, then the glory and acclaim will follow.
But woe betide the journalist, the player, or anyone who is perceived to be undermining the progress of these men.
Before the start of this year's, Premier League, a Daily Star journalist wrote a story stating that Rio Ferdinand would miss the start of the season because he was injured. The story has since been proved correct. But that's didn't stop Alex Ferguson banning the journalist from Manchester United press conferences.
Jose Mourinho is currently suing the Spanish newspaper Marca following an article which claimed he's "the type of person who leaves after causing a car crash". Mourinho wants a retraction and €15,000 in damages.
On Sunday, Jim McGuinness received the most rapturous reception ever given to an All-Ireland-winning manager. Once Michael Murphy mentioned his name, the cheering started and was sustained for more than a minute.
But on a day when he should have just wallowed in the joy of the occasion, McGuinness decided to pick at an old wound. After taking his seat for the post-match press conference, the man of the moment was greeted by a number of journalists who congratulated him and shook his hand. The conference with the winning manager is usually a light-hearted, enjoyable affair. But the mood quickly changed. Suddenly Jim's head was bowed and he started fiddling with his stopwatch. Then, he stood up and left the room. A few minutes later, a Croke Park press officer approached Declan Bogue, author of 'This Is Our Year', the award-winning book which led to Kevin Cassidy being excluded from the Donegal county squad.
She informed Declan that Jim wouldn't hold a press conference if he remained in his seat. Declan immediately volunteered to leave. During the stand-off, Jim was advised not to pursue this course of action. He was informed if he insisted on having Declan Bogue excluded from the press conference, then the dispute would dominate the next day's headlines. McGuinness point blank refused to change his mind.
When Jim reentered the room, he was asked to explain why he had chosen that precise moment to publicise his grievances about the book.
"There were a lot of untruths," he said. "There were a lot of things said about me. I've never broken court on it since the whole thing happened. I've held my dignity. I've let myself be castigated. And I did that because I gave someone my agreement that I wouldn't break my court on it.
"There were a lot of things said in the book which were incorrect and untrue, some of it possibly lies about me personally and about some of my players.
"It was an all-out attack for a couple of months on my character. I know what I've done. I know what I've coached. I know what I am as a person. And that's the situation."
As someone who has read 'This Is Our Year,' I remain mystified at how it managed to cause McGuinness so much offence. While Kevin Cassidy may have revealed information McGuinness wanted to remain confidential, the Gweedore clubman never made a single negative comment about his manager.
In fact, he is portrayed in an overwhelmingly positive fashion. He comes across as intelligent, driven, a thoroughly modern coach. Anyone who is any doubt should read the book — as no doubt many more will. And if Jim wanted to hurt Declan Bogue he has chosen an odd way of doing it. Another reprint will probably be required following this latest chapter to the saga.
The tragedy in all of this is that McGuinness, Cassidy and Bogue are three extremely likeable individuals. Each one is first-class company. It is truly sad that circumstances have created this discord. When writing 'This Is Our Year', Bogue relied on the testimony of Cassidy. The book provides an account of Cassidy's season. If Jim believes facts have been misconstrued, then surely he is venting his anger at the wrong person.
And yet, Cassidy revealed last week that McGuinness invited him to return to the Donegal panel at Easter. The former All Star declined the offer.
Cassidy's decision not to return, and his absence from the presentation podium is the one sour note to Donegal's victory that will linger.
Ultimately, Kevin Cassidy will have to live with his decision. He could have gone back if he so wished.
Apart from the flak he received for axing Cassidy, McGuinness was rightly universally feted during this year's Championship.
Adored by his native people, he is widely admired by those who have watched his team rise from qualifier chaff to All-Ireland champions. Yet, on the day of his greatest managerial achievement, McGuinness insisted on the removal of a journalist from a press conference that should have been a celebration of his finest hour.
And that's a huge pity. It was a surreal incident that will generate considerable debate during a week when the only topic should be Donegal's great victory. Whether he likes it or not, his conduct on Sunday will raise more questions and discussion about his character than anything ever written in This Is Our Year
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/surreal-post-match-strop-at-croker-left-mcguinness-down-209003.html
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 27, 2012, 12:36:32 PM
Ewan MacKenna reporting on Twitter that McGuinness didn't even visit the Mayo dressing room after the game. Very hard to warm to him.
+1
That is true.
Neither Jim McGuinness or any member of the Donegal management team or county board came near the Mayo dressing room after the game. Turned me off him completely.
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 27, 2012, 12:55:40 PM
I doubt he has anything against Mayo if he didn't visit the dressing room, He was full of praise for Mayo in the build up to the game, doubt it was mind games by saying that. He said he wouldn't begrudge Mayo winning either, as they had suffered lots of defeats in the past.
Maybe he was just buzzing after winning, and forget about his duties of visting the loser's dressing room...
That's the problem with all that ould shite. If it's a spontaneous gesture, it's an admirable thing to do. If it's a duty, what's the point? Who wants to sit in a losers' dressing room listening to banalities from a man who doesn't want to be there either and who's just mouthing empty platitudes? Scrap it, along with the cúpla focal, the hip-hipping and any other ould nonsense perpetrated on these occasions without any thought for whether it means anything or is just formulaic or, worse, patronising bullshit.
Dead right there Hardy. I remember getting beaten by 10-16 to 1-4 in an U-16 hurling match and the opposing manager coming in and telling us how we had great potential and we definitely had the beating of Cappatagle in the next game etc. etc. if we just stuck at it. We knew it wasn't true and he knew it too. It's a tradition that wouldn't be missed and the 3 cheers would make ya cringe as well. The "ta an athas orm.........." stuff doesn't really do anything for the Irish language. When someone like Joe Connolly or Sean Og O halpin come along and speak passionately as Gaeilge that's great but forcing it, no more than in the schools, is pointless.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 27, 2012, 02:25:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 27, 2012, 12:55:40 PM
I doubt he has anything against Mayo if he didn't visit the dressing room, He was full of praise for Mayo in the build up to the game, doubt it was mind games by saying that. He said he wouldn't begrudge Mayo winning either, as they had suffered lots of defeats in the past.
Maybe he was just buzzing after winning, and forget about his duties of visting the loser's dressing room...
That's the problem with all that ould shite. If it's a spontaneous gesture, it's an admirable thing to do. If it's a duty, what's the point? Who wants to sit in a losers' dressing room listening to banalities from a man who doesn't want to be there either and who's just mouthing empty platitudes? Scrap it, along with the cúpla focal, the hip-hipping and any other ould nonsense perpetrated on these occasions without any thought for whether it means anything or is just formulaic or, worse, patronising bullshit.
I don't think it was mind games or some pre-medidated decision either. But there is something to be said for etiquette in every sport. The overwhelming majority of managers who've visited our changing rooms over the years (in winning or defeat) have done so not to be patronising, but to pass on regards either way. And it's welcomed and appreciated by players. The words of your opponent's senior figure do actually count for something.
Your manager is the role model for how your team behaves. Professionalism is one thing, creating a divide between you and your sport is another.
to be fair after a game (win, lose or draw) there is still so much a manager has to do and attend to that whenever I'm managing, I dont get time to go into an opponents dressing room after the game (championship) . One of the selectors/club officials does that.Half the time I dont even remember. Bad form on my part in relation to ettiquette - maybe so, but my concern is always for my own team and players etc and my focus is elsewhere.
thats mickey mouse in comparison to th intercounty managers like McGuinness - so I can understand why he would forget or wouldnt have time.
its a tradition I couldnt care less whether they kept or stopped.
QuoteVisiting the losing dressingroom isn't confined to the gah and is a decent gesture i.m.o.
Yep I must say I know there's lots on folks minds after a game but I always try and make an effort to to speak to them - As we lose more often that win it's not something I've musch practice at ;)
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 02:11:07 PM
That's the problem with all that ould shite. If it's a spontaneous gesture, it's an admirable thing to do. If it's a duty, what's the point? Who wants to sit in a losers' dressing room listening to banalities from a man who doesn't want to be there either and who's just mouthing empty platitudes? Scrap it, along with the cúpla focal, the hip-hipping and any other ould nonsense perpetrated on these occasions without any thought for whether it means anything or is just formulaic or, worse, patronising bullshit.
I'm inclined to agree. Surely the honourable thing in sport is for the loser to congratulate the winner? It's easy to give the loser a patronising pat on the head, hard to swallow bitter tears of disappointment and acknowledge you were second best. And we do it not because it easy but because it is hard.
Murphy in his speech thanked Mayo, and offered the traditional three cheers. That was suffiecient
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 03:15:13 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 27, 2012, 12:36:32 PM
Ewan MacKenna reporting on Twitter that McGuinness didn't even visit the Mayo dressing room after the game. Very hard to warm to him.
+1
That is true.
Neither Jim McGuinness or any member of the Donegal management team or county board came near the Mayo dressing room after the game. Turned me off him completely.
Ewan has since updated this and said that Rory Gallagher and Michael Murphy did visit the dressing room but all bar two members of the mgt team where present.
I'm sure its to do with the length of time they spent out on the pitch. Some pictures have them on the field and the stadium is empty. I'd say Mayo couldn't wait to get out. Plus McGuinness was probably in demand to head to the infamous print media press conference.
Quote from: Bingo on September 27, 2012, 03:56:58 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 03:15:13 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 27, 2012, 12:36:32 PM
Ewan MacKenna reporting on Twitter that McGuinness didn't even visit the Mayo dressing room after the game. Very hard to warm to him.
+1
That is true.
Neither Jim McGuinness or any member of the Donegal management team or county board came near the Mayo dressing room after the game. Turned me off him completely.
Ewan has since updated this and said that Rory Gallagher and Michael Murphy did visit the dressing room but all bar two members of the mgt team where present.
I'm sure its to do with the length of time they spent out on the pitch. Some pictures have them on the field and the stadium is empty. I'd say Mayo couldn't wait to get out. Plus McGuinness was probably in demand to head to the infamous print media press conference.
Dont know why people are making excuses. Maybe this or that.
He didnt even shake the James Horans hand after the game.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:08:34 PM
Dont know why people are making excuses. Maybe this or that.
He didnt even shake the James Horans hand after the game.
Did James Horan shake Jim McGuinness's hand? Sore loser if he didn't.
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:08:34 PM
Dont know why people are making excuses. Maybe this or that.
He didnt even shake the James Horans hand after the game.
Did James Horan shake Jim McGuinness's hand? Sore loser if he didn't.
Are you serious, Jim was too busy running onto the pitch in front of the cameras celebrating.
Were you even watching the end of the game?
I wonder is that Heaney off Jimmy's Christmas card list.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:08:34 PM
Dont know why people are making excuses. Maybe this or that.
He didnt even shake the James Horans hand after the game.
Did James Horan shake Jim McGuinness's hand? Sore loser if he didn't.
Are you serious, Jim was too busy running onto the pitch in front of the cameras celebrating.
Were you even watching the end of the game?
Are you James himself? If he is so annoyed about it I'm sure it will come out and journo's will be only too delighted to talk about it and use it as a stick to beat McGuiness.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Are you serious, Jim was too busy running onto the pitch in front of the cameras celebrating.
Were you even watching the end of the game?
No, I'm not being serious. But as I said in my previous post on the thread, I don't see it as necessary for winners to commiserate with losers in that manner.
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:36:00 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Are you serious, Jim was too busy running onto the pitch in front of the cameras celebrating.
Were you even watching the end of the game?
No, I'm not being serious. But as I said in my previous post on the thread, I don't see it as necessary for winners to commiserate with losers in that manner.
You have obviously not played sport at a competitive level to know what a major loss feels like.
Its a tradition and a good one.
Quote from: Bingo on September 27, 2012, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:08:34 PM
Dont know why people are making excuses. Maybe this or that.
He didnt even shake the James Horans hand after the game.
Did James Horan shake Jim McGuinness's hand? Sore loser if he didn't.
Are you serious, Jim was too busy running onto the pitch in front of the cameras celebrating.
Were you even watching the end of the game?
Are you James himself? If he is so annoyed about it I'm sure it will come out and journo's will be only too delighted to talk about it and use it as a stick to beat McGuiness.
Haven't a clue if he is annoyed or not but for an opposing manager not coming into the losers dressing-room, and not shaking hands after and All Ireland final is unheard of, and it annoyed me when I heard it.
This is going to sound very cruel, but if what's bothering losers about losing is the failure of the winners to commiserate with them, maybe that's why they're losers.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:39:10 PM
Haven't a clue if he is annoyed or not but for an opposing manager not coming into the losers dressing-room, and not shaking hands after and All Ireland final is unheard of, and it annoyed me when I heard it.
So you know for a fact that it's happened in every previous All-Ireland final
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:50:08 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:39:10 PM
Haven't a clue if he is annoyed or not but for an opposing manager not coming into the losers dressing-room, and not shaking hands after and All Ireland final is unheard of, and it annoyed me when I heard it.
So you know for a fact that it's happened in every previous All-Ireland final
Yes, prove me wrong.
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
This is going to sound very cruel, but if what's bothering losers about losing is the failure of the winners to commiserate with them, maybe that's why they're losers.
There is a hell of a lot more, I just stumbled on this thread and someone made in initial point and I agreed.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:53:11 PM
Yes, prove me wrong.
I think you'll find the onus is on you to prove you are right. You can't prove a negative.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:39:10 PM
Quote from: Bingo on September 27, 2012, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:08:34 PM
Dont know why people are making excuses. Maybe this or that.
He didnt even shake the James Horans hand after the game.
Did James Horan shake Jim McGuinness's hand? Sore loser if he didn't.
Are you serious, Jim was too busy running onto the pitch in front of the cameras celebrating.
Were you even watching the end of the game?
Are you James himself? If he is so annoyed about it I'm sure it will come out and journo's will be only too delighted to talk about it and use it as a stick to beat McGuiness.
Haven't a clue if he is annoyed or not but for an opposing manager not coming into the losers dressing-room, and not shaking hands after and All Ireland final is unheard of, and it annoyed me when I heard it.
Id say very little would annoy you
In the euphoria of winning the final and the absolute mayhem after, Id say its near impossible to tick all the boxes.
Sure I heard Jim was on the blower to James Horan later on that evening ;-)
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
This is going to sound very cruel, but if what's bothering losers about losing is the failure of the winners to commiserate with them, maybe that's why they're losers.
Hardy, do you know if there were many handshakes between the Meath and Cork teams of the late 80's? It took the death of John Kerins (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/cork-v-meath-latest-chapter-in-an-old-rivalry-1059256.html)to eradicate the bitterness between the two teams. Any handshakes that took place were utterly meaningless in that context.
I didn't know the winning manager had to congratulate the losers?
I thought the tradition was the losing manager came into the winning dressing room to say:
"Well done. Ye were the better team ON THE DAY"...Implying that the losing team are usually the better team every other day.
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 02:11:07 PM
That's the problem with all that ould shite. If it's a spontaneous gesture, it's an admirable thing to do. If it's a duty, what's the point? Who wants to sit in a losers' dressing room listening to banalities from a man who doesn't want to be there either and who's just mouthing empty platitudes? Scrap it, along with the cúpla focal, the hip-hipping and any other ould nonsense perpetrated on these occasions without any thought for whether it means anything or is just formulaic or, worse, patronising bullshit.
I'm inclined to agree. Surely the honourable thing in sport is for the loser to congratulate the winner? It's easy to give the loser a patronising pat on the head, hard to swallow bitter tears of disappointment and acknowledge you were second best. And we do it not because it easy but because it is hard.
It may come over as patronising, especially if it's just an empty gesture, but I do think there is something in it. A bit like the practice of not running up scores on weak/besaten opponents in the NFL, it's reminder that at some point we're all in the losers dressing room, it's a mark of respect after the battle on the field is over. Just a thought.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on September 27, 2012, 05:00:07 PM
I didn't know the winning manager had to congratulate the losers?
I thought the tradition was the losing manager came into the winning dressing room to say:
"Well done. Ye were the better team ON THE DAY"...Implying that the losing team are usually the better team every other day.
That's what I've being thinking. My only memory of ever seeing it on screen - and I admit it might be a false memory - is of a Galway mentor going into the Offaly dressing room to congratulate them in the 1985 final.
Quote from: J OGorman on September 27, 2012, 04:56:30 PM
Id say very little would annoy you
In the euphoria of winning the final and the absolute mayhem after, Id say its near impossible to tick all the boxes.
Sure I heard Jim was on the blower to James Horan later on that evening ;-)
Impossible to tick all the boxes...
So he had the presence of mind to evict Bogue from the post match press conference but a handshake to the opposing manager and saying a few words in the losing dressing-room escaped him?
Interesting theory on his priorities there, its painting the picture alright.
Quote from: Mentalman on September 27, 2012, 05:03:11 PM
It may come over as patronising, especially if it's just an empty gesture, but I do think there is something in it. A bit like the practice of not running up scores on weak/besaten opponents in the NFL, it's reminder that at some point we're all in the losers dressing room, it's a mark of respect after the battle on the field is over. Just a thought.
I can see your point, but if it's obligatory then it renders the gesture meaningless, e.g. the three cheers for the losers where they'd probably like the ground to open up than hear that shite.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 05:04:48 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on September 27, 2012, 04:56:30 PM
Id say very little would annoy you
In the euphoria of winning the final and the absolute mayhem after, Id say its near impossible to tick all the boxes.
Sure I heard Jim was on the blower to James Horan later on that evening ;-)
Impossible to tick all the boxes...
So he had the presence of mind to evict Bogue from the post match press conference but a handshake to the opposing manager and saying a few words in the losing dressing-room escaped him?
Interesting theory on his priorities there, its painting the picture alright.
exactly, didnt tick all the boxes. Did he forget? Tried and Mayo had left? Wouldnt be bothered? Who knows?
The priority was winning the AI for his county.
You still suing the local council?
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 05:03:38 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on September 27, 2012, 05:00:07 PM
I didn't know the winning manager had to congratulate the losers?
I thought the tradition was the losing manager came into the winning dressing room to say:
"Well done. Ye were the better team ON THE DAY"...Implying that the losing team are usually the better team every other day.
That's what I've being thinking. My only memory of ever seeing it on screen - and I admit it might be a false memory - is of a Galway mentor going into the Offaly dressing room to congratulate them in the 1985 final.
Micko Dwyer did it in the Galway dressing room in 1998 as seen in "A Year Till Sunday".
I'm nearly sure I saw footage of him doing the same in 1982 in the Offaly dressing room.
I think it was Cork who got the hump when Babs Keating didn't congratulate them on winning the 1990 Donkey Derby Munster Final. Or maybe it was when Clare beat Tipp in 1994?
Either way, Keating made the excuse afterwards that he wasn't able to fight his into the dressing room with all the crowds.
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
I can see your point, but if it's obligatory then it renders the gesture meaningless
Granted. I'd always try to do it myself, especially with the underage teams, and especially if they'd been wailed on, and ensure my team knew it was done, but wouldn't feel it's obligatory by any means.
To the point in hand, if J McG didn't do it, by accident or design, that's his look out. Maybe it's not his practice? Just something else to fire up Mayo with next season I guess?
Quote from: J OGorman on September 27, 2012, 05:07:48 PM
exactly, didnt tick all the boxes. Did he forget? Tried and Mayo had left? Wouldnt be bothered? Who knows?
The priority was winning the AI for his county.
You still suing the local council?
For the smell of the bullshit coming out of your mouth I am thinking of bring a lawsuit against you
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
This is going to sound very cruel, but if what's bothering losers about losing is the failure of the winners to commiserate with them, maybe that's why they're losers.
Hardy, do you know if there were many handshakes between the Meath and Cork teams of the late 80's? It took the death of John Kerins (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/cork-v-meath-latest-chapter-in-an-old-rivalry-1059256.html)to eradicate the bitterness between the two teams. Any handshakes that took place were utterly meaningless in that context.
There were the usual perfunctory handshakes on the field but they did indeed strongly dislike each other. Hayes, for instance, describes in his book the farcical situation where the two teams found themselves sharing the same resort (maybe hotel?) on a foreign holiday and many of them (though not all) doing their best to ignore each other. And you're right, those on both sides cite John Kerins's funeral as the occasion of a coming to the senses for both parties.
And it wasn't just the players. The supporters didn't like each other much either.
Edit: sorry - just noticed your link covering much of the above.
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 05:16:26 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on September 27, 2012, 05:07:48 PM
exactly, didnt tick all the boxes. Did he forget? Tried and Mayo had left? Wouldnt be bothered? Who knows?
The priority was winning the AI for his county.
You still suing the local council?
For the smell of the bullshit coming out of your mouth I am thinking of bring a lawsuit against you
...ing
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/frank-roche/journalist-ejection-could-be-jims-first-act-in-sam-defence-3242300.html
I see we are famous again !
Quote from: Bud Wiser on September 27, 2012, 09:43:08 PM
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/frank-roche/journalist-ejection-could-be-jims-first-act-in-sam-defence-3242300.html
I see we are famous again !
;D Fearon can't stay out of the papers!
Frank might have name checked the original instigator of the thread! ;D
Frank is a nice lad, don't forget he gave Conal a few column inches to promote our gaaboard.com charity golf outing last year for Pietta and Cormac Trust. Be nice now, we might need him again ¡¡
I like turtles.
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
This is going to sound very cruel, but if what's bothering losers about losing is the failure of the winners to commiserate with them, maybe that's why they're losers.
Nail on head.
I'm not sure that James Horan is pissed off about this. The only thing I've heard from the Mayo camp is no excuses, no excuses for the goals and acceptance that basic execution of skills let us down.
This pragmatic acceptance and lack of shite talk gives me hope.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on September 27, 2012, 09:43:08 PM
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/frank-roche/journalist-ejection-could-be-jims-first-act-in-sam-defence-3242300.html
I see we are famous again !
That's my quote he used! Will he send me the cheque in the post or what's the story on it?
Expect a cheque made out to "Bingo" to the value of 50 cents,to drop through your letter box any day now.
Quote from: stephenite on September 27, 2012, 10:47:22 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 27, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
This is going to sound very cruel, but if what's bothering losers about losing is the failure of the winners to commiserate with them, maybe that's why they're losers.
Nail on head.
I'm not sure that James Horan is pissed off about this. The only thing I've heard from the Mayo camp is no excuses, no excuses for the goals and acceptance that basic execution of skills let us down.
This pragmatic acceptance and lack of shite talk gives me hope.
Spot on. Chatting to two of the lads and that's exactly their attitude.
Frank might be a nice lad but I don't think it's funny to joke about journalists' cowardly abandonment of a colleague who had been slandered for the crime of writing a book that if anything, praised mein fuhrer, I mean McGuinness.
People who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on September 28, 2012, 10:23:55 AM
People who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
Public Enemy? Nice!
Quote from: Ohtoohtobe on September 28, 2012, 10:23:55 AM
Frank might be a nice lad but I don't think it's funny to joke about journalists' cowardly abandonment of a colleague who had been slandered for the crime of writing a book that if anything, praised mein fuhrer, I mean McGuinness.
People who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
Why not just quote Pastor Neimoller ::)
First they came for the book writers.....
Quote from: deiseach on September 27, 2012, 04:55:16 PM
Quote from: TyrionLannister on September 27, 2012, 04:53:11 PM
Yes, prove me wrong.
I think you'll find the onus is on you to prove you are right. You can't prove a negative.
Prove it
Fine article from Bogue:
Declan Bogue: Losing a sense of perspective
So much of GAA journalism is devoted to the art and science of winning. Such is the fetish for coming out on the right side of a result that losing is seen as a sin.
Sometimes, it's not. Sometimes it is just unavoidable. I think of Lisnaskea, and Brian Óg Maguire when I write this.
Last Saturday night my own club Tempo Maguires won the Fermanagh senior football final, beating Lisnaskea. In the lead-up to the game, it was too difficult to call. Nobody knew how the emotion of the occasion was going to affect either team.
In last Saturday's feature interview with Lisnaskea manager Mark Henry, he articulated the odd position they found themselves in, saying; "One of the things I say is if we get beaten, there won't be too many people getting annoyed?if at the final whistle we are beaten, they will shrug their shoulders. They will put it into perspective."
In the fortnight between Ogies' death and the final, perspective was everything. The main street in Lisnaskea was left unadorned of flags and bunting. Nobody wore his number 8 jersey in the final, instead the number appeared above the club crest on their shirts.
The important thing was to honour his memory by playing the game the way he would have played; with force and passion. Both sides managed that but Lisnaskea looked like a group that had spent a great deal of time grieving.
There are those that felt it was too soon to play again, but as Henry explained, "They wanted the next time they put on a jersey to be a match that really meant something. If we had postponed the county final we were going to have to play league games, and we had no stomach for that."
At the final whistle, Tempo asked Lisnaskea captain Mark McKenna up on the podium to raise the New York Cup up with their captain, Conor Foy, before he shook Foy's hand and left them to it.
After that, it was an odd evening of celebration. We say odd because in the village, there hasn't been much celebration in recent years, but there has been plenty of tragedy with untimely deaths directly affecting the club.
Over the past few years, the village has become a ghost town, devoid of much spark; a by-pass away from anonymity. On Saturday night, life returned to it with a party that drifted towards morning.
There was some talk in local papers of them putting to bed a 39-year gap without the Championship. But most don't acknowledge the trophy drought.
After the likes of the Campbell brothers Damian, Paul and Ciaran beat — strangely enough — Lisnaskea in that 1973 final, my father made his way to a pay-phone in Leicestershire for a pre-determined time, to hear that utterly devoted Tempo and Fermanagh Gael, Charlie McNally, tell him the good news.
Once the cup was won, it took residence in Campbell's shopfront window for the rest of the year.
No big deal. It was the third time they won it in four years.
39 years later, Damien's son Declan is the elder statesman of the team and held everything together at corner-back. Paul's son Thomas is a rising threat at full-forward. Ciaran is a selector. 39 years ago is a lifetime.
On Saturday night, the usual conversations took place. For fifteen years, Declan Campbell was making the trip down from Belfast or Larne where he was working as a pharmacist, for mid-week training. Other boys in the parish spent the evening sofa-surfing, staring at Champions' League soccer.
When it was suggested to him that it was a sacrifice — especially in the year that his car radio was out of action — he furrowed his brow. Why was it a sacrifice? It was just what he did, he reasoned. Tempo was Tempo, a part of him. Not something he would just walk away from.
There is a rush to glorify the inter-county game and we forget that 98% of players are club players. The inter-county game brings in the big bucks, but creates a world of heartache with club schedules at the whim of county coaches.
After the weekend and all the dignity, pride and glory of the Fermanagh final, it's tempting to think the GAA have created a monster with the treatment of inter-county competition, in comparison to club.
Perhaps it has.
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/declan-bogue/declan-bogue-losing-a-sense-of-perspective-16219331.html#ixzz28MyVAg2b