Hope to head down and make a weekend of it. Don't know much about Portlaoise. Anyone have any recommendations on where to stay, eat, things to do/see etc? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
I know a fellow that has been living in Portlaoise for years and they won't let him leave. Quite right too.
Stayed in the heritage hotel good spot in the middle of town with decent food. Things to do rock of dunamase or visit the prison.
Bump.
Sick looking at that other thread. No amount of vitriol or handwringing will undo that tanking, so time to move on.
This game is crucial for all involved. Both sides are probably looking at it as their most winnable game on paper, and the loser will be odds on to go down. Both teams coming off the back of big hidings so it's really anyone's guess what sort of reactions we'll see. Armagh need major surgery in midfield if we're going to get anything, a return for Vernon would be very welcome, along with a much more well organised kick out strategy.
Lose this and relegation looms large.
Go directly to Portlaoise Jail. Do nor pass for a goal. Do not collect 2 points.
Anyone know what station is carrying the match?
Laois FM :P
Armagh Team v Laois (http://www.armaghgaa.net/football/armagh-senior-team-laois/)
Surprising team. No Donaghy or Mackin. Two of our better players of late. And 4 under twenty ones with championship on Wednesday. Hope it works.
Why are the U21s being risked ahead of Wednesday's game against Cavan? I think this is a terrible decision, especially in the case of Pete C who has played very little football since his injury. If Vernon is injured then maybe management have a case but this smacks of short termism. I honestly think a good run in the U21s is more important to the long term future of Armagh football than avoiding relegation to Division 2.
Quote from: harlechman on March 16, 2012, 04:38:59 AM
Why are the U21s being risked ahead of Wednesday's game against Cavan? I think this is a terrible decision, especially in the case of Pete C who has played very little football since his injury. If Vernon is injured then maybe management have a case but this smacks of short termism. I honestly think a good run in the U21s is more important to the long term future of Armagh football than avoiding relegation to Division 2.
i have looked at the remaining panel and would struggle to replace the u-21s that are playing
for what its worth stephen harold should have been drafted in and carragher kept til wednesday nite
i assume that mal, donaghy and vernon are still injured so for the tyrone game we could have at least 10 different players, can only see, mallon,forker, mallon,mckeever and rafferty or anto duffy come championship
anyway onwards and upwards
Is Michael O Rourke fit. He could be worth a run instead of a younger chap.
This does not fill me with confidence.
I'd imagine they're at it with that line out, unless there are injuries
Quote from: bennydorano on March 16, 2012, 11:18:57 AM
I'd imagine they're at it with that line out, unless there are injuries
Thought that myself Benny, confuse the old comrade and hope he bites!
Can't see Armagh losing this one.
QuoteCan't see Armagh losing this one.
Are you a ref?
Seems not Benny. This could be very difficult to get a result here. I'd take a draw
TBH lads i can see Laois handing out a another heavy defeat here (not as bad as last weeks), i hope I'm wrong but Laois -1pt @ 5/4 looks like the one to be on but don't like betting against armagh but a lot of neutrals and Laois fans will do that bet
If that team lines out i'd be expecting a trimming as well.
All the more importent for Armagh to get something from this, AK etc are not coming back.
Armagh were always going to lose to Dublin, they will bounce back with a comfortable enough win tomorrow.
Quote from: Agent Orange on March 17, 2012, 08:21:04 PM
Armagh were always going to lose to Dublin, they will bounce back with a comfortable enough win tomorrow.
I wish I had your confidence. Armagh are missing Donaghy and Mackin. I'd be surprised if we came back with the 2 points.
anyone know if this game is on the radio anywhere
This is about as good as you'll get:
http://dev.sharp-stream.com/stuarttest/midlands103.html (http://dev.sharp-stream.com/stuarttest/midlands103.html)
Laois v Armagh seems to be the main game though they're going round a few grounds.
Laois 0-4 Armagh 0-2
Laois 0-6 Armagh 0-3
Half-time: Laois 0-7 Armagh 0-4
Armagh should have scored 2 goals
Who`s playing well pat?
HT LS 0-07 AH 0-04 defensive game without much vision to overcome the defences. Laois a bit better at shooting from 25m. Lavery replaced Carragher for Armagh.
I'm listening to it on
http://dev.sharp-stream.com/stuarttest/midlands103.html
Commentary on the game is sporadic but Forker seems to be doing well
McKeever sent off
Red card for McKeever
Laois 0-10 Armagh 0-4
Straight red?
McKeever was sent off because he hit a player in tunnel - according to twitter people.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 18, 2012, 03:36:52 PM
McKeever was sent off because he hit a player in tunnel - according to twitter people.
If true that could be bad news, could be a lengthy ban then.
Goal for Armagh
1-4
0-12
That's his second this year, it will def be a lengthy ban, I would say a 3 or 4 match ban, he will miss the Tyrone championship match
Laois 1-13 Armagh 1-8
Think Armagh will now be relegated with Cross game going to a replay.
Armagh are fucked, Laois, Donegal and down all winning
Allianz Football League Division 1
Looking bleak for Armagh...
Team P W D L F A +/- Pts
1 Kerry 5 4 0 1 3-54 3-35 21 8
2 Down 5 3 0 2 2-56 6-55 -11 6
3 Cork 5 2 1 2 7-38 1-37 17 5
4 Dublin 4 2 0 2 6-52 3-48 13 4
5 Mayo 4 2 0 2 3-43 1-49 0 4
6 Donegal 5 2 0 3 5-47 6-48 - 4 4
7 Laois 5 2 0 3 4-51 7-55 -13 4
8 Armagh 5 1 1 3 4-49 7-63 -23 3
Last updated: 18 Mar 201
Quote from: Agent Orange link=topic=21295.msg1091145 :)#msg1091145 date=1332015664
Armagh were always going to lose to Dublin, they will bounce back with a comfortable enough win tomorrow.
:)
We truly are fu**ed. Theres no hope of us winning games when we're without the Cross boys, Donaghy,Mackin,Toner,Vernon and then losing McKeever @ HT
Even if we beat Down, losing in Donegal will put us down.
We're not good enough for Division 1. It's as simple as that.
How many players have we got missing now...
Kernan
Hearty
J Clarke
R Clarke
McVerry
Makin
Swift
Vernon
McDonnell
Geoghan
Toner
McKeever
Mallon
Donaghy
Quite sure im missing at least another 4.
GK's
Hearty
Geoghan
Defenders
Aaron Kernan
James Morgan
Mallon
Donaghy
McKeever
MF
Vernon
Toner
Mackin
Fowards
J Clarke
R Clarke
McVerry
Makin
Swift
Vernon
McDonnell
Tony Kernan
Then add in any other cross lads.. So far thats 18 players....
f**k sake lads we're missing players all right but it feels embarrassing to be listing excuses
Not listing excuses, but we shouldn't be so disheartened. We are on the verge of probably our 3rd tier team and while relegation is looking highly likely I dont think Armagh are as bad as the last 3 games suggest.
So what did the thug do to get sent off?
Duffle_King, seriously, how many of the players that started today would start v Tyrone come c'ship time?
If Mayo,Laois can beat Armagh with ease then Armagh deserve to be playing Division two football.
Vernon came on today, but we are short. The ref waved his leg when sending McKeever off, so perhaps he is supposed to have kicked someone?
According to the bbc report the Armagh camp are claiming that they are completely in the dark as to why he was sent off.
Michael Duffy is a dickhead.
The above is the only thing you can read into the events of today. I have never seen anything resembling that farce at any level in all my years watching football. Would make you reconsider how you spend your money and weekends.
There was a bit of drama at the sending off when an incredulous McKeever refused to leave the field and Grimley, POR et al came on and persuaded him to come off. At the end of the game there seemed to be some interchange between Grimley and the ref. Hard to know what, if anything, happened.
All in all a disappointing day. The first half saw packed defences with Laois able to pop the odd point from 25m out and Armagh trying unsucessfully to walk it in. The Laois gaolie did great work, even when Armagh did get a goal in the 2nd half he had parried the ball, but it fell to a forward on the rebound. In the second half it seemed that Armagh would be completely overrrun, but the arrival of Vernon, Kingham and MOR helped and when Armagh got the goal we were in contention. But Armagh missed some points that they should have had. The Laois goal was probably a point that dropped short in the square and they had more luck in the square than Armagh were having. The wind was changeable and some of the Armagh passes went long in the second half, a bit like the Cross game at this venue some weeks ago.
Quote from: laoislad on March 18, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange link=topic=21295.msg1091145 :)#msg1091145 date=1332015664
Armagh were always going to lose to Dublin, they will bounce back with a comfortable enough win tomorrow.
:)
Ref beat Armagh today.
Quote from: Agent Orange on March 18, 2012, 06:42:28 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 18, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange link=topic=21295.msg1091145 :)#msg1091145 date=1332015664
Armagh were always going to lose to Dublin, they will bounce back with a comfortable enough win tomorrow.
:)
Ref beat Armagh today.
Should they put a little asterisk beside Laois's league points total?
Look none of us know what Ciaran did or didn't do. He is adamant he didn't do anyting to merit a red card and seemed genuinely shocked and distraught when he was sent off. I doubt there will be a successful appeal as there is unlikely to be any video evidence and therefore nothing to dispute the assertion of the fourth official that he kicked a Laois player.
Apart from the atrocious display from the referee, the reason we lost that match is simple enough; during the first half we controlled possession and terrority yet our opponents were registering scores from long range, converting almost every chance they had yet Armagh had possession 4 times in the Laois penalty area but couldn't manage a single point. Had we converted some of our three gilt-edged goal chances or been awarded a penalty for either of the clear fouls in the Laois penalty area, the outcome may have been entirely different. Laois were the more clinical of the sides and grew in confidence as the scale of our scoring ineptitude became apparent. They probably deserved their victory though were looking very shaky before comedic defending gifted them their goal after Armagh had worked very hard to get back into the match. Neither side would appear likely to enjoy a prolonged summer.
I thought Paul Grimley's behaviour at the end was very poor. No matter how poor the referee was, rushing onto the pitch to remonstrate with him, then pushing two volunteer stewards is hardly going to help the situation.
Very little hope for the Down or Donegal matches at this stage. The best XV absentees is almost certainly a much better outfit than the fifteen who will take the pitch.
Ref wasn't great, we'll never know if McKeever deserved to be sent off. Both teams were missing a good few players but if everyone's honest, both teams wont go far in the Summer.
For Laois I think our team is too slow and not enough scoring forwards.
If he didn't deserve to be sent off for that, I'm sure there was something else he did he deserved to be sent off for.
He is as dirty a player as there is at present. Always getting sneeky, dirty digs in. Good to see him off.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 18, 2012, 10:37:57 PM
If he didn't deserve to be sent off for that, I'm sure there was something else he did he deserved to be sent off for.
??????????????
Paul Grimley warned Armagh supporters of a rollercoaster ride at the start of the season and he wasn't wrong. Armagh should've been well ahead at half time with two one on ones with the keeper falling to the forward that you would want them to fall to and he panicked on both occasions. Those as well as two stone wall penalty decisions turned down by that eejit of a ref should have been meant that we were out of sight. Credit to Laois who took some superb long range points esp in the first half.
The players deserve great credit for dragging themselves back into it with 12 minutes to go only for us to give away a soft goal which killed our momentum.
We are told by the hierarchy in Croke Park that referees must be shown respect but they are ruining our game by allowing sub standard referees take control of top matches. The singularly worst display of refereeing in my 35 years going to football.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 18, 2012, 10:37:57 PM
If he didn't deserve to be sent off for that, I'm sure there was something else he did he deserved to be sent off for.
Stupid (and erroneous) comment.
Quote from: mackers on March 18, 2012, 10:54:14 PM
Paul Grimley warned Armagh supporters of a rollercoaster ride at the start of the season and he wasn't wrong.
What has Grimley brought to the party? Things haven't exactly improved since he came in, yet to hear some people he is the second coming.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on March 18, 2012, 11:07:04 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 18, 2012, 10:37:57 PM
If he didn't deserve to be sent off for that, I'm sure there was something else he did he deserved to be sent off for.
Stupid (and erroneous) comment.
I doubt it.
Armagh people know that McKeever can be a bit borderline at times but today in the first half there was hardly a hard challenge from either team. Both teams went of quite calmly. There was no sign of any commotion in the tunnel as teams walked off or when they came back on. McKeever is getting the raw end of the stick from people on this board as well as referees. If what I was told by a Laois man at the match did happen then McKeever is very unlucky. A man who the GAA trusted to act as spokesman for our sport is being harshly treated. Fifteen years ago he would have been considered soft. We want to see the best players play our game and instead the hierarchy have pushed the rules to a state were a diving cheat gets more respect than someone who stands up to be counted. Players like McKeever are well and good when they want a junket but not good enough at other times. The game is being destroyed.
As for the game. Laois deserved to win as they were better at the basic art of shooting. Armagh missed a bag full and when you do that you do not deserve to win. On saying that 5 of the 6 starting forwards by my counting made their full league debut this year. The team never give in. If we give these players time they may yet make it. For Armagh I thought Anto Duffy was best.
Quote from: Agent Orange on March 18, 2012, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: mackers on March 18, 2012, 10:54:14 PM
Paul Grimley warned Armagh supporters of a rollercoaster ride at the start of the season and he wasn't wrong.
What has Grimley brought to the party? Things haven't exactly improved since he came in, yet to hear some people he is the second coming.
I find it very difficult to blame the management during this campaign. Look at the list of players that we are missing. They are blooding a lot of young players out of necessity rather than choice. Some of the performances of the young players have been encouraging.
Quote from: EC Unique on March 18, 2012, 10:53:36 PM
He is as dirty a player as there is at present. Always getting sneeky, dirty digs in. Good to see him off.
You still haven't quite forgiven him from saving wee Peter, when he pulled him out of that scufuffle in '05!! ;)
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on March 19, 2012, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on March 18, 2012, 10:53:36 PM
He is as dirty a player as there is at present. Always getting sneeky, dirty digs in. Good to see him off.
You still haven't quite forgiven him from saving wee Peter, when he pulled him out of that scufuffle in '05!! ;)
Wee Peter sent him up the road a couple of weeks after that and went on to get another medal.
Quote from: EC Unique on March 19, 2012, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on March 19, 2012, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on March 18, 2012, 10:53:36 PM
He is as dirty a player as there is at present. Always getting sneeky, dirty digs in. Good to see him off.
You still haven't quite forgiven him from saving wee Peter, when he pulled him out of that scufuffle in '05!! ;)
Wee Peter sent him up the road a couple of weeks after that and went on to get another medal.
I suppose when I think of McKeever I think of the 2005 UFR and his behaviour still annoys me. He should have been the only one sent off that day.
I will always remember McKeever's victory speech in Casement after Armagh won the U21 championship :-[
He's a great defender and a strong player but he'll never be liked in Tyrone after the way he treated PTG.
(http://img.rasset.ie/00005a1210dr.jpg)
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2005/0904/tyrone.html (http://www.rte.ie/sport/2005/0904/tyrone.html)
Yet I supposed he increased the tension that year and duly got a chance to ram it back down his throat.
All teams need a player like him I suppose but you can just imagine him and Billy Sheehan from Laois in the tunnel alright
They were hardly swapping twitter details now were they but no doubt ye'll all come back at me with
"Where you at the game Fuzzman"
No I wasn't but I'm saying Billy and Ciaran were probably having a good wee natter during the whole game. Billy is no angel as we all know.
Quote from: Orior on March 19, 2012, 12:04:38 PM
I will always remember McKeever's victory speech in Casement after Armagh won the U21 championship :-[
Was the Ulster final in Casement that year? The AI final was in Breffni.
I still think McKeever saved wee Pete that day... sure all them big fellas could have stood on him.
Armagh manager Paddy O'Rourke has spoken of his frustration as why the Orchard men were left with 14 men from half-time yesterday.
Armagh suffered their third straight Allianz Football League defeat when going down to Laois yesterday, with the Orchard County's woes compounded by the half-time dismissal of All-Ireland and two-time National League winner Ciarán McKeever.
"To lose the man at half-time was an incredibly bizarre decision," said O'Rourke.
"We honestly don't know why we lost him, he doesn't know why. He said nothing happened in the tunnel. Why we lost him I don't know."
With the teams ready for the second half, referee Michael Duffy issued a red card to the St Patrick's Cullyhanna clubman before he had thrown the ball in.
McKeever failed to leave the pitch until the arrival of Armagh selector Paul Grimley, who also protested to the Sligo whistler before he ushered McKeever towards the sideline.
Laois manager Justin McNulty, who was part of the Armagh squad alongside McKeever when they claimed league honours in 2004, said that McKeever was sent off because of an alleged strike in the tunnel at the break.
"There was an incident at half-time which the linesman happened to witness which Ciarán was sent off for," he said. "Ciarán will know when you do that sort of thing, you have to pay the consequences.
"It was a striking action in the tunnel which the linesman witnessed right next to him, so you pay the consequences for that."
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on March 19, 2012, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 19, 2012, 12:04:38 PM
I will always remember McKeever's victory speech in Casement after Armagh won the U21 championship :-[
Was the Ulster final in Casement that year? The AI final was in Breffni.
I still think McKeever saved wee Pete that day... sure all them big fellas could have stood on him.
Ulster final was in Casement. In his excitement, a 20 year old swore during his victory speech. Stupid admittedly but hardly something to be bringing up against him 8 years on.
As for the Tyrone obsession with Ciaran, he pulled Canavan's jersey seven years ago and probably shouldn't have been sent off himself. I'm not quite sure if the Tyrone fanaticism is based on the premise that pulling Peter Canvan's jersey is somehow a more heinous crime than grappling with any other player?
I wonder did Sean Teague become a figure for revilement in Tyrone for his far more questionable behaviour that day?
McKeever is our only genuine top class (I would say World Class if it had any relevance) player at the minute, he's a knave of the highest order, but I'm glad he's wearing orange and I'd be even more happy if he was wearing the N6 for Armagh Harps.
See no reason to panic in regards to the state of the team at present tbh, we are missing a lot, barring last weeks shambles we're playing ok considering what's been on the field. It would be nice to hear if Stevie is planning on making a comeback, Kieran Toner has no intentions of being back anytime soon from what I've heard, so I'd be planning to be without him. Vernon's recent absence should have knocked some sense of perspective back into the boneheads who regularly slate him as well.
Division 2 is where we probably expected to be at the end of the season, so we're only really living up to expectations.
Find it funny that some Tyrone fans have a problem with McKeever, yet when any Armagh fan mentions Jordan they say move on. Practice what you preach...
Personally I don't care what mcKeever does.
He's a very good player who plays close to the edge each game.
Every county has one - and every county needs one.
I see a lot of compliments towards McKeever here and we for one would be glad to have him on our team.
All I'm saying is that he often takes the law into his own hands and gets correctly punished for it.
When he got sent off that day in '05 he walked off with a wry smile on his face knowing what he did was more than just pull wee Pete's jersey. He was trying to provoke and get him sent off and was delighted he managed to do that.
So naturally enough, as a biased Tyrone man I am glad to see him get his comeuppance every now and then when he steps over the line.
How many of ye armagh lads reckon he did nothing and you believe his word to PoR that he did nothing. Do ye honestly think he's gonna admit it to anyone. Lets face it a linesman doesn't just make up the story and get a man sent off just cos he doesn't like him now does he.
I think he's one of yer most important players these days and ye miss him every time he is suspended.
I know Tyrone have had their fair share of similar style players so I'm not saying we're cleaner than clean but it amazes me how many of ye defend him no matter what. Some could say he cost ye the AI in 2005 fouling SoN once too often
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 19, 2012, 02:42:51 PM
How many of ye armagh lads reckon he did nothing and you believe his word to PoR that he did nothing. Do ye honestly think he's gonna admit it to anyone. Lets face it a linesman doesn't just make up the story and get a man sent off just cos he doesn't like him now does he.
If you had witnessed the display of officiating in Portlaoise yesterday, and Ciaran McKeever's absolute incredulity at the order to leave the field, you would understand the sympathy displayed on this thread.
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 19, 2012, 02:42:51 PM
I see a lot of compliments towards McKeever here and we for one would be glad to have him on our team.
All I'm saying is that he often takes the law into his own hands and gets correctly punished for it.
When he got sent off that day in '05 he walked off with a wry smile on his face knowing what he did was more than just pull wee Pete's jersey. He was trying to provoke and get him sent off and was delighted he managed to do that.
So naturally enough, as a biased Tyrone man I am glad to see him get his comeuppance every now and then when he steps over the line.
How many of ye armagh lads reckon he did nothing and you believe his word to PoR that he did nothing. Do ye honestly think he's gonna admit it to anyone. Lets face it a linesman doesn't just make up the story and get a man sent off just cos he doesn't like him now does he.
I think he's one of yer most important players these days and ye miss him every time he is suspended.
I know Tyrone have had their fair share of similar style players so I'm not saying we're cleaner than clean but it amazes me how many of ye defend him no matter what. Some could say he cost ye the AI in 2005 fouling SoN once too often
I believe him. A bit like Francy Bellew, McKeevers reputation goes before him and subsequently he never gets the benefit of the doubt from refs. Will be a huge loss.
There is something wrong with the GAA mentality. We have seen referee's make mistakes in sending players off, or not sending players off in matches when no meaningful incident occured. I would not be suprised if something similiar has happened here going on what the fans have been saying about the game. Yet, even when it is a common occurence in the GAA for referee mistakes to happen they are still believed by fans who have not seen anything but base their decision on Ciaran McKeever's reputation.
I am not sugesting that McKeever is innocent, it wouldn't be out of character if he did lose his temper. But there is no evidence available to suggest otherwise. We are basing these assumptions on the word of 'officials' who have more often than not ruined games by poor decision making resulting in teams being unfairly eliminated from competitions.
"It was a striking action in the tunnel which the linesman witnessed right next to him, so you pay the consequences for that."
That's what Justin McNulty had to say about it, surely he'd back his ex teammate if he thought it was unjust.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 19, 2012, 06:43:55 PM
"It was a striking action in the tunnel which the linesman witnessed right next to him, so you pay the consequences for that."
That's what Justin McNulty had to say about it, surely he'd back his ex teammate if he thought it was unjust.
Where in that post does McNulty state that he
witnessed McKeever hit another player?
Again I ask ye. How many of you think he never touched Sheehan then?
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 19, 2012, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 19, 2012, 06:43:55 PM
"It was a striking action in the tunnel which the linesman witnessed right next to him, so you pay the consequences for that."
That's what Justin McNulty had to say about it, surely he'd back his ex teammate if he thought it was unjust.
Where in that post does McNulty state that he witnessed McKeever hit another player?
It doesn't but surely he would have spoken to Sheehan, he'd have better knowledge of the situation than you or I.
Justin McNulty
Quote"There was an incident at half-time which the linesman happened to witness which Ciarán was sent off for," he said. "Ciarán will know when you do that sort of thing, you have to pay the consequences.
"It was a striking action in the tunnel which the linesman witnessed right next to him, so you pay the consequences for that."
Thanks for that Justy! >:(
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 19, 2012, 07:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 19, 2012, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 19, 2012, 06:43:55 PM
"It was a striking action in the tunnel which the linesman witnessed right next to him, so you pay the consequences for that."
That's what Justin McNulty had to say about it, surely he'd back his ex teammate if he thought it was unjust.
Where in that post does McNulty state that he witnessed McKeever hit another player?
It doesn't but surely he would have spoken to Sheehan, he'd have better knowledge of the situation than you or I.
McNulty never mentioned anything about talking to Sheehan, surely he would have said something about talking to Sheehan in the interview. Instead he supports the linesman's decision on the incident and does not back the decision by avoiding to mention Sheehan. Such a serious incident would have been discussed at HT would you agree?
By not stating he spoke to Sheehan and instead saying what he did, makes the situation even more dubious.
Well he seems to be making an informed statement. You think Sheehan didn't mention it in the dressing room?
That is not an informed statement. And it would have been talked about if it happened - which we dont know because we didn't see.
If it happened it would have be talked about, McNulty would have had a word with him in the dressing room, as any manager in any sport would have. McNulty would have stated that he spoke to Sheehan about the incident when doing the interview. Instead he mentioned the linesman - this in itself indicates that McNulty either dosen't have a clue about what happened or nothing actually happened.
If it did happen you would have expected McNulty to mention Sheehan's name in the interview as he was obviously the victim. But he dosen't.
Surely McNulty would have said something like..."I spoke to Sheehan at half time and he said...." But he didnt.
Why would he have stated he spoke to Sheehan? Makes no difference. Obviously something happened down the tunnel, we can't be sure what exactly but it wasn't just made up.
I don't think McNulty would of commented unless he heard the story.
There is no point anyone trying to exonerate McKeever on the basis that there is no video evidence so there is no proof that he did anything. That is a silly non-argument. Let's be honest here. The official didn't just make up a complete fiction. McKeever obviously wasn't standing there with his hands closed in quiet prayer. No doubt something happened and there was some contact. To say anything else would just be blinkered.
However it is unavoidable that no one has the right to come on and say even though they didn't see it that he is culpable of some atrocity. He may have punched a man in the face or he may simply have given him a wee shove. Both are technically striking offences and depending on how pedantic the official was either one would get him sent off. So without a clear report or admission it is well possible that the contact was minor and although perhaps technically "striking" it does not mean that there was definiately any violence invoved.
I think McKeever is overly aggressive and many of his challlenegs while hard are often NOT fair. But I will not hang him for something that I did not see when I have seen fussy officials complain about minor things elsewhere. I believe the offficial knows the rules and is not blind so I am sure technically he deserved a red card. But, although it might be, it does not automatically mean it was violent, dangerous or outrageous.
McNulty is sitting on the fence, he is taking a side, so you have to question what actually happened. Not that it matter, undoubtedly McKeever is going to get a lenghty ban as GAA dont question decisions.
Can any fans confirm wether or not there was a brawl in the tunnel...Im sure if a player was struck with a punch some sort of scuffle would have happened.
McNulty should perhaps keep his mouth shut. Who were the linesmen??
With only 2 league games left the returning players aren't going to have much time to bed in / get up to the pace.
Was at the match on Sunday and was watching the players enter tunnel as I thought some of the Armagh management might approach the ref to ask why he had not awarded two clear pen decisions to Armagh, however both teams and management walked into tunnel without any alternation. I have no doubt that cmck and Sheehan could well have had a chat before reaching the dressing rooms. People talk about Ciaran's reputation and that there is no smoke without fire as far as he is concerned. What annoys me is Mr Sheehan is also no angel and find it hard to believe that he didn't warrant a chat from the referee???? Are we supposed to believe that Ciaran just walked up to the poor unfortunate Laois number 15 and kick him??
I was at the match too and there was definitely no sign of trouble in the tunnel area at half time. I was sitting next to the parents of one of the Laois players and they said they thought there was now cameras in the tunnel at Portlaoise due to the number of incidents there had been there. Maybe someone could confirm if this is right. Would also note that the referee signalled that he was sent off for a kick. The way he signalled would make me think it was more of a trip. As for Sheehan other Laois supporters said leaving the ground that if he did get hit it was not for nothing. Seems that both players have a reputation!
Youse deserve every bit of bad refereeing you get to try and even up the imposition of Hughes on the rest of us.
Fair point
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 19, 2012, 10:02:12 PM
Youse deserve every bit of bad refereeing you get to try and even up the imposition of Hughes on the rest of us.
Couldn't help laughing at that one!
Quote from: PAULD123 on March 19, 2012, 08:33:25 PM
I believe the offficial knows the rules and is not blind
That belief would have been shaken if you were actually in Portlaoise.
Those not in attendance at yesterday's game really don't understand the circumstances in which the decision to line McKeever was made. Given their judgement of a whole host of other incidents over the seventy minutes, there is every reason to question the competency of that set of officials to have made the correct call on what happened, or did not happen, at half time.
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 19, 2012, 10:02:12 PM
Youse deserve every bit of bad refereeing you get to try and even up the imposition of Hughes on the rest of us.
Ha, not too many arguments there.
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 19, 2012, 10:02:12 PM
Youse deserve every bit of bad refereeing you get to try and even up the imposition of Hughes on the rest of us.
Fair enough
AFS you seem to go a long way to say nothing definite there.
Yes, I like so many others posting here were not at the game and so have no good right to speculate on what might or might not have happened. However, it is a discussion board and we can all give our own opinions as long as we know that's all they are.
There seems to be a mutual consensus from some neutrals that both McKeever and Sheahan do tend to do their fair share of mouthing off and bending the rules to suit themselves. I know Sheahan indeed does tend to rub people up the wrong way and so if I was a gambling man I would hazard a guess that he was mouthing off the whole of the first half and so McKeever, being the sly fox that he can be, chose to take some action in the tunnel area as it would not be caught on camera or by any of the officials. Now what he did only a few people probably know and I am not one of them but for anyone to come on here and be so blinkered to say that NOTHING at all happened and that the linesman or Ref totally made it up, is just being silly.
Now this is my own opinion and I'm not on my high horse that NO Tyrone players have not done things wrong like this in the past. We know they have. Fair enough the Ref might have been a bit of a nightmare the whole game but I just don't accept that he sent him off for a wee push in the back or a wee trip walking in the tunnel.
That's just my own opinion and nothing more so of course I could be TOTALLY wrong.
I'm just a bit shocked that so many of ye Armagh lads often admitted in the past that McKeever does tend to do silly things sometimes so why not this time? Is it because he stood up to the Ref, like a bold boy at school and said NO sir. I didn't do anything.
If yer all calling the Ref and linesman liars then that is a whole different ball game.
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 19, 2012, 10:53:15 PMIf yer all calling the Ref and linesman liars then that is a whole different ball game.
Are they not human? Are they incapable of lying? We probably see lying or its ugly namesake alternative 'mistake' every week. While at times officials can make mistakes, GAA officials in particular never seem to learn from these 'mistakes' they make time and time again. Instead the idiots at te top of the GAA heirarchy are making it more difficult for the players rather than address the real issue which are the arbitary rules they have put in place.
I would be more likely to believe in the tooth fairy than believe in all GAA officials being honest.
I really am beginning to believe ye lads now actually as you seem to be all singing from the one hymn sheet.
I've been to games alright where you just wonder does this ref have it in for ye
I'm honest enough to say I've never liked McKeever (Or Sheahan I suppose) but if what yer saying is the general consensus then this sure is a bigger issue.
Can anyone confirm about the cameras in the tunnel.
That ground sure does seem to bring a lot of trouble to the table.
If he gets suspended for kicking how long will he be out for?
It's gas how every year the league brings up these issues whereas other players get away with murder just cos its an AI semi etc.
I spoke with a few Killeavy lads at the weekend and they said Stevie is not even training with their senior team at the minute, if that's the case then i doubt he's any intention of coming back to Armagh...
On McKeever...is there any point in even discussing it as it's done now and judging by recent appeals on Armagh players then he's going to serve a double ban (2nd time off this year)
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 19, 2012, 10:53:15 PM
If yer all calling the Ref and linesman liars then that is a whole different ball game.
I'm calling them incompetent. Their incompetence was evident on an inordinately high number of occasions during the seventy minutes on the pitch. There is no reason why such incompetence could not extend into their adjudication of the events, or nonevents, of half time.
Quote from: illdecide on March 19, 2012, 11:37:47 PM
I spoke with a few Killeavy lads at the weekend and they said Stevie is not even training with their senior team at the minute, if that's the case then i doubt he's any intention of coming back to Armagh...
On McKeever...is there any point in even discussing it as it's done now and judging by recent appeals on Armagh players then he's going to serve a double ban (2nd time off this year)
Stevie's wife give birth to their new son Cahir yesterday. I'd imagine it'll be a few week's before (and if) he decides to return to training. He should be fairly fit anyways, isn't he personal training in Newry?
Reports in the Irish Star today that McKeever was subjected to some sectarian abuse from some of the Laois players. It's alleged he was called a British bastard and they sang GSTQ at him during the 1st half and as they were going in at HT.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on March 20, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
Reports in the Irish Star today that McKeever was subjected to some sectarian abuse from some of the Laois players. It's alleged he was called a British b**tard and they sang GSTQ at him during the 1st half and as they were going in at HT.
Isn't it strange that the GAA are promoting relations with the unionist community and trying to encourage foreigners to play our games, while at the same time, northern players are continually subjected to this sort of thing. Oh yes, GAA fans thought it was terrible what Luis Suarez said (well, not the Liverpool fans), but yet nobody bats an eye to the "British b*****d" type insults players from the North continue to get.
Guaranteed there would be the same Suarez type frenzy if a black GAA player got insulted, yet fcuk all is happening with this.
QuoteIt's alleged he was called a British b**tard and they sang GSTQ at him during the 1st half and as they were going in at HT.
I'm sure McNulty is proud of his charges.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on March 20, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
Reports in the Irish Star today that McKeever was subjected to some sectarian abuse from some of the Laois players. It's alleged he was called a British b**tard and they sang GSTQ at him during the 1st half and as they were going in at HT.
The irony of this coming from people from the Queen's county ;) Maybe they're just getting into the swing of things for their 60 year Jubliee Specials in Durrow!
Couple of bites for AM there.
Quote from: BennyCake on March 20, 2012, 12:05:38 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on March 20, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
Reports in the Irish Star today that McKeever was subjected to some sectarian abuse from some of the Laois players. It's alleged he was called a British b**tard and they sang GSTQ at him during the 1st half and as they were going in at HT.
Isn't it strange that the GAA are promoting relations with the unionist community and trying to encourage foreigners to play our games, while at the same time, northern players are continually subjected to this sort of thing. Oh yes, GAA fans thought it was terrible what Luis Suarez said (well, not the Liverpool fans), but yet nobody bats an eye to the "British b*****d" type insults players from the North continue to get.
Guaranteed there would be the same Suarez type frenzy if a black GAA player got insulted, yet fcuk all is happening with this.
Sure where is the line drawn? Go to any County match during the summer and some of the personal abuse shouted at players is unbelievable. It shouldn't be acceptable and abuse fuelled by race or sexuality should not be seen as more serious than any other form.
if the sectarian allegation is true I wonder will the gaa take issue with it.
have kept counsel on the match but I thought refereee was appalling, we should have had a couple of penalties, but we were also wasteful.
reality is that we are weak at present and i would expect to be turned over in our next 2 games
Yes the referee was bad. He should have given you 1 penalty in the first half for sure, I can't remember the other penalty claim but about a minute after the first incident he should have awarded a free on the 21 yard line. He also gave a few baffling decisions against Laois, he's just a bad ref but I can see why Armagh fans would be more aggrieved by his performance.
Onto the sectarian abuse, if it's true then I'd like McNulty to kick Sheehan off the panel for good. I've never liked him anyway, not only because he must be one of the few Kerrymen that's unable to kick a ball but also his behaviour over the years. Never did our county any credit.
Quote from: AFS on March 19, 2012, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on March 19, 2012, 08:33:25 PM
I believe the offficial knows the rules and is not blind
That belief would have been shaken if you were actually in Portlaoise.
Those not in attendance at yesterday's game really don't understand the circumstances in which the decision to line McKeever was made. Given their judgement of a whole host of other incidents over the seventy minutes, there is every reason to question the competency of that set of officials to have made the correct call on what happened, or did not happen, at half time.
I wasn't there but would say the incident was more likely to have occured than not. Now where have I heard that one before? I would agree that McKeever uis well known to walk a fine line but is he stpuid enough to kick someone in front of an official. Given the performances of Rory Hickey and Joe McQuillan over the past few days I would be more inclined to believe McKeever tahn trust an officilas eyesight.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 20, 2012, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: AFS on March 19, 2012, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on March 19, 2012, 08:33:25 PM
I believe the offficial knows the rules and is not blind
That belief would have been shaken if you were actually in Portlaoise.
Those not in attendance at yesterday's game really don't understand the circumstances in which the decision to line McKeever was made. Given their judgement of a whole host of other incidents over the seventy minutes, there is every reason to question the competency of that set of officials to have made the correct call on what happened, or did not happen, at half time.
I wasn't there but would say the incident was more likely to have occured than not. Now where have I heard that one before? I would agree that McKeever uis well known to walk a fine line but is he stpuid enough to kick someone in front of an official. Given the performances of Rory Hickey and Joe McQuillan over the past few days I would be more inclined to believe McKeever tahn trust an oofficial's eyesight. I would agree with other's here that Duffy is not a good ref.
Ah come on lads seriously!!!!
Some of these comments are absurd. Either you are calling the official a straight out liar or you have to accept that he saw something happen. You can easily debate how serious it was and whether or not it was possibly violent or just petty. but you can not seriously claim that the official just made the whole thing up.
As for "McKeever isn't so stupid as to kick....." - Yes he is, he has struck players several times right in front of officials
Secondly it has not been stated that it was definitely kicking, just striking. And as I said a fairly incidental shove is technically striking and a pedantic official could easily demand a dismissal for it
Thirdly no matter how bad the referee was, it was not his decision. The linesman asked for the dismissal the referee only carried out his request.
Finally, no matter how unfair it was. In refusing to leave the field he committed a serious offence. he can consider himself lucky if the referee does not report him for a second red card offence. The referee was quite entitled to cancel teh game and award it to Laois - check the rule book. So you how does the argument "McKeever isn't so stupid as to..." hold up now?
I am absolutely sure from the linesman's request that McKeever made contact with someone. I am also equally sure from McKeever's reaction that the contact could not have been anything more than incidental and likely to merit nothing more than a sharp word to calm down.
Incidentally I work with a Laois man who was at the game. he confirmed that the referee was terrible but said that Laois had plenty to complain about too. He also said that if McKeever had punched Sheehan that he probably deserved it (I mean Sheehan deserved it)
You're awfully sure of things for a boy going on a few sketchy second hand reports. What are you actually adding to the discussion? Don't tell me this is the start of another year of half informed waffle about Armagh from yourself.
Forget about it,
we are both going down :(
PAUD. I was at the match and it was not as simple as he would not leave the field. He asked why he was being send off a couple of times - yes. But he may have left the field freely only Grimley and Nugent - I think - entered the field to question referee. All then left the field. Only the referee and others involved know if he refused to leave.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on March 20, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
Reports in the Irish Star today that McKeever was subjected to some sectarian abuse from some of the Laois players. It's alleged he was called a British b**tard and they sang GSTQ at him during the 1st half and as they were going in at HT.
Did they not appreciate the irony of the very fact that they sang GSTQ at McKeever? A Kerry man playing for Laois and slagging someone off nonsensically for being British, do us a favour. I wonder will Sheehan be reined in over this by his 'British' manager?
i say put mckeever and sheehan in a small room for about 30secs.. and see what happens.. tell you what put mckeever and any of the laois team in a small room for 20secs and see happens.. sheehans lucky mckeever didnt pull his head off. this episode only serves to distract attention away from the woeful performance of this armagh management and wtfs the county secretary doing tackling a ref during a match..plot completely lost er what..?
The 'British' shite must be common enough, Jamie Clarke and Fish Aherne got similar treatment on Saturday, during and after the game.
Quote from: bennydorano on March 20, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
The 'British' shite must be common enough, Jamie Clarke and Fish Aherne got similar treatment on Saturday, during and after the game.
why didnt they report it. its a crime under irish law to incite hatred. just this week the guards removed a swastika flag from a house in the midlands its not an offence to fly it but the people involved can be jailed for inciting hatred of a sectarian/racial nature. this stuff needs to be highlighted and stamped out
Its not an isolated incident.. the Kerry fans give wild abuse at Armagh players calling them Brits
Quote from: JP on March 20, 2012, 09:11:41 PM
Its not an isolated incident.. the Kerry fans give wild abuse at Armagh players calling them Brits
yes there was an incident reported in the papers about crowd trouble at the kerry match but little was made of it. i suppose its time for us gaa folk to stop looking down our noses at soccer fans. pot kettle etc..
yes there was an incident reported in the papers about crowd trouble at the kerry match but little was made of it. i suppose its time for us gaa folk to stop looking down our noses at soccer fans. pot kettle etc..
[/quote]
That is the truest statement I heard in a long time
Interesting press release from the county board tonight.
Quote from: JP on March 20, 2012, 09:11:41 PM
Its not an isolated incident.. the Kerry fans give wild abuse at Armagh players calling them Brits
I'm going to league and championship matches all over Ireland for the guts of 40 years now and I have never ever heard this type of stuff directed at me.....as a matter of fact if I was to ask my club mates tomorrow night at a committee meeting if they have ever encountered this type of stuff I would be 100% positive that the response would be no.
The poor Armagh boys seem to be singled out by them big bold boys from the Free State ???
What can't be underestimated is the media campaign that went on for many years which thought southerners to dislike and distrust 6 county nationalists. You will hear many people who don't even consider them Irish, unfortunately it spread to GAA areas also.
If you asked these people anything about Ulster they wouldn't have a clue. Ignorant people.
Quote from: 5 Sams on March 20, 2012, 10:18:01 PM
Quote from: JP on March 20, 2012, 09:11:41 PM
Its not an isolated incident.. the Kerry fans give wild abuse at Armagh players calling them Brits
I'm going to league and championship matches all over Ireland for the guts of 40 years now and I have never ever heard this type of stuff directed at me.....as a matter of fact if I was to ask my club mates tomorrow night at a committee meeting if they have ever encountered this type of stuff I would be 100% positive that the response would be no.
The poor Armagh boys seem to be singled out by them big bold boys from the Free State ???
It's because of the colour of their jerseys.
Seriously. These people haven't a clue.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 20, 2012, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on March 20, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
Reports in the Irish Star today that McKeever was subjected to some sectarian abuse from some of the Laois players. It's alleged he was called a British b**tard and they sang GSTQ at him during the 1st half and as they were going in at HT.
The irony of this coming from people from the Queen's county ;) Maybe they're just getting into the swing of things for their 60 year Jubliee Specials in Durrow!
Hey bitch leave Durrow out of it,we prefer the small ball anyways ;)
The Dromid PR machine are to issue a statement tomorrow.
Must compliment Armagh players who kept at it desPite strange sending off.league referees are poor as they seem to be following some strange instructions at this time of year.makeover needs to keep calmer as he seems to be a marked man but he will have to live with it. Should be a good match with down
Quote from: 5 Sams on March 20, 2012, 10:18:01 PM
Quote from: JP on March 20, 2012, 09:11:41 PM
Its not an isolated incident.. the Kerry fans give wild abuse at Armagh players calling them Brits
I'm going to league and championship matches all over Ireland for the guts of 40 years now and I have never ever heard this type of stuff directed at me.....as a matter of fact if I was to ask my club mates tomorrow night at a committee meeting if they have ever encountered this type of stuff I would be 100% positive that the response would be no.
The poor Armagh boys seem to be singled out by them big bold boys from the Free State ???
ironically the only time i heard abuse from fans at any game was from down men in clones singing something about what we could do with our apples etc.. they hadnt much singing when oisin bagged 2:7
Funny enough this sort of anti northerner abuse does happen. I was umpiring for a club I play for in Dublin in the league. The opposition goalie and umpire both gave the whole nine yards for being a Brit etc. I threatened to report it and was promptly apologised to. Turns out the umpire has an All Ireland football medal for the dubs!! While the apology was sincere I was utterly shocked at the behaviour. I have played in dublin for 12 yrs now and this was the only, but serious, abuse I got.
Justin mcnulty has let himself down badly if it turns out that Sheehan incited any sort of anti northern sentiment. He is inexperienced and probably out of his depth. This is the sort of thing along with the standard of refereeing that needs to be looked at in hq.
Saddened.
While it shouldn't happen I know, how stupid would you have to be to get riled up at someone singing GSTQ at you . . .who gives a f**k!
Did the star identify their source for this story?
Quote from: 5 Sams on March 20, 2012, 10:18:01 PM
Quote from: JP on March 20, 2012, 09:11:41 PM
Its not an isolated incident.. the Kerry fans give wild abuse at Armagh players calling them Brits
I'm going to league and championship matches all over Ireland for the guts of 40 years now and I have never ever heard this type of stuff directed at me.....as a matter of fact if I was to ask my club mates tomorrow night at a committee meeting if they have ever encountered this type of stuff I would be 100% positive that the response would be no.
The poor Armagh boys seem to be singled out by them big bold boys from the Free State ???
have to say 5sams you would be in the minority there
have heard a lot of abuse over the years
as an aside the issue armagh have is the selective punishment by the referee
there were other incidents in the tunnel at half time but yet again mc keever was singled out
i thought the laois county board was weak " we investigated and found no evidence of any racial abuse" it was sectarian not racial
I played in Dublin for a couple of years and got all sorts from "Nordie p***k" "Orange bastard" "f**k off back to england" and stuff of a similar vein.
I'm still very surprised that a man of McKeever's calibre who is so important to this Armagh team would let himself get dragged down to that level. I mean it's not like he doesn't engage in the verbals himself from time to time and given the fact he always gets singled out he would be better to put his head down until Championship time!
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2012, 01:32:55 AM
While it shouldn't happen I know, how stupid would you have to be to get riled up at someone singing GSTQ at you . . .who gives a f**k!
+1.
Whoever called this "racial abuse" should take a reddener. "Racist" GAA will be all over BBC etc.
I could laugh at the comments from some of the Down lads on here. They would take references to there Britishness as a badge of honour and most likely would join in with GSTQ. In all seriousness in 40 years of going to matches and playing regularly against teams from Louth, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal I have never once heard any such comments from opposition players and supporters. I know quite a few pwople from all parts of the South though and some of them actually don't consider Northerners to be Irish at all. That said I think the whole McGuinness intervention in the presidential election has exposed an underbelly of anti nationalist (32 county nationalist) feeling.
From Benny Coulter (via Twitter):
QuoteJust reading the comments about c mckeever sending off.he was just right to drive the abuser.mckeever hard but fair player.#BIGTALKERSINGAA
Armagh CB Press Release:
Coiste Chondae Ard Mhacha wishes to express concern at the alleged racist and personal abuse, directed at our players, apparently going unpunished. Racist abuse is in direct contravention of Rule 1.12 : The Association is Anti-Sectarian and Anti-Racist. Any conduct by deed, word or gesture of a sectarian or racist nature against any player, official, spectator or anyone else, in the course of activities organized by the Association, shall be deemed to have discredited the Association.
The chanting of "God Save the Queen" and malign taunting of "British b**tard" has no place either on or off the field of play. This is provocation in the extreme and at variance with Rule 1.2 : The Association is a National Organization which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes. This partitionist mindset is contrary to the preamble in the Treori "Those who play its games, those who organize its activities and those who control its destinies see in the G.A.A. a means of consolidating our Irish identity. The games to them are more than games - they have a national significance - and the promotion of native pastimes becomes a part of the full national ideal, which envisages the speaking of our own language, music and dances."
We endeavor to promote respect and fair play both on and of the field and do not condone any action which is a contravention of such fair play. However we also expect to be treated fairly and the rules of the game to be applied in a fair and equitable manner.
No place for chanting GSTQ or British B*****d or Free State B****d or traitors or any of that shite at a match.
But where the hell are the Armagh CB going with claims of racism!!!??? How the fck can someone from Laois (or Kerry :) ) be racist against someone from Armagh?? Do people from Armagh actually consider themselves a different race to the rest of Ireland?
Derry CB Press Release:
Coiste Chondae Dhoire wish to express concern at the alleged racist and personal abuse, directed at our players, apparently going unpunished. Racist abuse is in direct contravention of Rule 1.12 : The Association is Anti-Sectarian and Anti-Racist. Any conduct by deed, word or gesture of a sectarian or racist nature against any player, official, spectator or anyone else, in the course of activities organized by the Association, shall be deemed to have discredited the Association.
The chanting of "There's no f*cking London in Armagh" and malign taunting of "Go home to Londonderry" has no place either on or off the field of play. This is provocation in the extreme and at variance with Rule 1.2 : The Association is a National Organization which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes. This partitionist mindset is contrary to the preamble in the Treori "Those who play its games, those who organize its activities and those who control its destinies see in the G.A.A. a means of consolidating our Irish identity. The games to them are more than games - they have a national significance - and the promotion of native pastimes becomes a part of the full national ideal, which envisages the speaking of our own language, music and dances."
We endeavor to promote respect and fair play both on and of the field and do not condone any action which is a contravention of such fair play. However we also expect to be treated fairly and the rules of the game to be applied in a fair and equitable manner.
QuoteDo people from Armagh actually consider themselves a different race to the rest of Ireland?
That isn't the question. The question is whether Laois/Kerry people consider Armagh people to be of a different race or nationality. It seems that do.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 21, 2012, 10:04:52 AM
QuoteDo people from Armagh actually consider themselves a different race to the rest of Ireland?
That isn't the question. The question is whether Laois/Kerry people consider Armagh people to be of a different race or nationality. It seems that do.
"Laois/Kerry people" or the ONE player alleged to have abused McKeever? Either this was disgusting sectarian/racial hatred or a bit of sledging McKeever was stupid enough to respond to and which the Armagh board are blowing out of all proportion because their man got sent off? I know where the smart money is!
We'll have clowns on here quoting hate crimes legislation next!
The CCCC (must be some bu##sh## wing of the GAA) are proposing a 3 month ban for Grimley after his involvement with the ref.
Thats right, brush it all under the carpet...Southerners who do not experience racial abuse..What about the other week when there was an add in Australia stating 'No Irish' the southern media were quick to get on that one...but when it is aimed at someone up North - not a word.
Would seriously hope that Armagh consider withdrawing from competition, GAA is a joke and it is continuing to be one.
This shit just got real...
@UlsterGAAinfo: Totally shameful behaviour; if it was racist in terms of skin colour it would carry a hefty ban! Will we see the same? #GAA #pathetic
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm tis strange from the laois neanderthal to tarnish the armagh brethren in such light, having another armagh neanderthal as there manager............................... who uttered such drivel, Quigley or Sheehan I bet, or perhaps they didnt
Us Dubs are called jackeen bastards on and off the pitch.................................. ah sure look
Will Justin McNulty be as quick to condemn this behaviour as he was commenting on McKeever's alleged offence?
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on March 21, 2012, 10:46:15 AM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm tis strange from the laois neanderthal to tarnish the armagh brethren in such light, having another armagh neanderthal as there manager............................... who uttered such drivel, Quigley or Sheehan I bet, or perhaps they didnt
Us Dubs are called jackeen b**tards on and off the pitch.................................. ah sure look
'Ah sure look'...I recall leaving Croker last year after ye beat us, and hearing a group of dubs walking up the road behind us, singing about how the Tyrone fans should now "f**k off back to England" :-\
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 20, 2012, 10:08:24 PM
It's nothing new, about 7 years ago, our players and coaches had that same sectarian abuse in a Hogan Cup semi final against Knockbeg College from Carlow in Navan with no protection from the referee John Bannon or his linesmen who were Navan clubmen and they were alerted to this unacceptable behaviour. Some of the parents from the opposition were among the worst offenders sitting behind our dugout for the purpose of abusing the coaches.
I was at that game and remember some of the Omagh lads afterwards referring to one of the linesmen doing his own bit of mouthing about "british b*******s" to them.
As Kenny Archer said in the Irish News today, scumbags getting involved in this kind of thing have no concept of the sensitivities they can be hitting on. They have no idea of the background of the person they are abusing and for all they know, the man being slated as being a "british b*****d" could have lost family member or a friend in the conflict. Unsurprising too that one or two posters on here are more vocal in their criticism of McKeever and the Armagh CB than they are of the player in question who was dishing out the abuse.
Quote from: machaman on March 20, 2012, 11:54:32 PM
Funny enough this sort of anti northerner abuse does happen. I was umpiring for a club I play for in Dublin in the league. The opposition goalie and umpire both gave the whole nine yards for being a Brit etc. I threatened to report it and was promptly apologised to. Turns out the umpire has an All Ireland football medal for the dubs!! While the apology was sincere I was utterly shocked at the behaviour. I have played in dublin for 12 yrs now and this was the only, but serious, abuse I got.
Justin mcnulty has let himself down badly if it turns out that Sheehan incited any sort of anti northern sentiment. He is inexperienced and probably out of his depth. This is the sort of thing along with the standard of refereeing that needs to be looked at in hq.
Saddened
Not sure what u mean, it's justy's 3rd year involved in intercounty management with both armagh and laois, he's done a fairly good job so far so he's hardly out of his depth. Yes, he's wrong if he spoke without getting the correct details of what happened but we don't know.
I agree with the rest of what you said about getting silly abuse from playing down south, and it's not just on the playing field as ur likely to get it in the work place or even copper face, i got it from an of duty guard in coppers one night ( i think he was just pretending to be a guard, the ballbag).
But anyway lads, my main view on these things is that although these things shouldn't happen, i sometimes think the world has gone PC mad, even the evra-suaraz thing, big deal out of nothing ( i know some of you will find that controversial). Generally, i wouldn't give a shite if someone called a nordie, as im a proud nordie. If i was called a british whatever I wouldn't like it but i wouldn't care either. Playing gaa abroad is great for the opportunity to play with lads from the 4 provinces of ireland, i loved it. I know i'm one of the worst for stirring my souterm mates about the free state thing, in fact i always refer to the south as the free state. If I thought it really hurt them then i wudn't do it!
I'm sure Laois people are not racist in general, no doubt they have ignorant fans like everyone has, and no doubt that sheehan fella is a tube, even the laois lads have said here they could do without him
Its not racist abuse, and its a complete facepalm moment for the co board to say it is.
(http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/medium/double-facepalm.jpg)
Quote from: Throw ball on March 19, 2012, 10:00:01 PM
Would also note that the referee signalled that he was sent off for a kick. The way he signalled would make me think it was more of a trip.
Lol!! So to make it clear there was a kick, he should have showed a lot more force? I'd love to see the charade when someone was sent off for starting a row, or grabbing someones balls, or....you get the picture...It'd certainly make for a better spectacle!!
Another good news story for the GAA. ::)
methinks he will still get the two weeks but grimley`s will be dropped.
What's so bad about being called a British bastard anyway?
Is it the British bit or the bastard bit?
Sheamy me boy, I feel at pains to point out that everyone knows that County Londonderry is a fact of geography, and as some Armagh fans point out to you there is certainly no London in Armagh, fact. Whilst Ciaran McKeever is undoubtedly entitled to UK citizenship or Irish as he may choose, he is by no means British. So I think you've missed the mark there son. By the by there is a slight difference between the slagging that takes place between rival fans and a player from another team deliberately targeting an opponent for abuse either about his parentage or race or nationality. Context is every thing, my mate from Dundalk calls me a Brit I call him a Mexican...all banter, no abuse intended. If what happened to McKeever is as reported and Marty Duffy heard it then we need to see some action from the CCC. It will also be enlightening to see if that same CCC who at the behest of Southern Mejia took retrospective action against Derrytresk for a situation which the ref had dealt with will do likewise to the head butter from Garrycastle. Paddy Heaney great Co Londonderry man that he is can often be wrong but in todays IN he has hit the mark.
If Sheehan did say this then it still does not excuse McKeever striking him (if that is even what McKeever did). No matter what is said verbally you can not lash out. We even teach our children that. If McKeever struck him then McKeever should be banned for the appropriate length of time (2 matches is the standard punishment isn't it?) simple as that end of story.
However as an entirely separate matter, if Sheehan did say this and it can be proven then he should be dealt with even more severely. Provocation can not ever excuse retaliation but that doesn't mean provocation should not be punished. In fact the comments are true, IF the comments are true, then I would hope Sheehan could face a ban longer than McKeever's.
It is also a sad experience of mine working in Dublin that commonly a lot of people here do genuinely not see northerners as being the same quality of Irish as themselves. There is an underlying media and politician driven rejection of the North as equally Irish. sadly this has affected many people's minds. We are often thought of as 2nd class Irish if Irish at all. McGuinness's presidential campaign showed this to be true.
But none of this excuses striking (again IF that is what happened). I get regularly called a Queen-loving Brit and other such prejudicial comments but I don't punch my colleagues or people in pubs, who make jokes, slags or insults. Incidentally it isn't joking if deep down you actually mean it!
'Queen-loving Brit'.
It just rolls of the tongue.
Are people genuinely offended by these things or are they just pretending to be?
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2012, 12:21:27 PM
'Queen-loving Brit'.
It just rolls of the tongue.
Are people genuinely offended by these things or are they just pretending to be?
Are you serious it's only slightly worse than west brit, but not quite as bad as queen loving west brit.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 11:59:41 AM
Sheamy me boy, I feel at pains to point out that everyone knows that County Londonderry is a fact of geography, and as some Armagh fans point out to you there is certainly no London in Armagh, fact. Whilst Ciaran McKeever is undoubtedly entitled to UK citizenship or Irish as he may choose, he is by no means British. So I think you've missed the mark there son. By the by there is a slight difference between the slagging that takes place between rival fans and a player from another team deliberately targeting an opponent for abuse either about his parentage or race or nationality. Context is every thing, my mate from Dundalk calls me a Brit I call him a Mexican...all banter, no abuse intended. If what happened to McKeever is as reported and Marty Duffy heard it then we need to see some action from the CCC. It will also be enlightening to see if that same CCC who at the behest of Southern Mejia took retrospective action against Derrytresk for a situation which the ref had dealt with will do likewise to the head butter from Garrycastle. Paddy Heaney great Co Londonderry man that he is can often be wrong but in todays IN he has hit the mark.
Apples me son/boy (wtf ???),
firstly, Paddy Heaney did not state any opinion. He reported the story factually and account based. Kenny Archer gave opinion. That's your first error.
Your second error is making a difference between the cases. I posted a satirical take on the Armagh CB statement which is embarrassing to be honest. It's equally as ridiculous to complain about trash talking between players as it would be to complain about the silly banter I posted, which by the way, our players have been subject to for years and years on and off the pitch. Any sensitivities to take care of there? Nah, didn't think so.
If Grimley hadn't been banned there wouldn't be a word about this. There's a time and a place for making your protest and the pages of the national press isn't the place to do it. Compare and contrast this shambles with the dignity with which Crossmaglen deal with things after having about a dozen horrendous decisions go against them.
I guarantee you that you wouldn't get them issuing statements like that. They'd ignore trash talking and beat you the proper way. The fact is McKeever should not have reacted to any jibe, especially from a well known asshole like Sheehan. Full stop. God knows, our Ciaran gives enough abuse out.
Likewise Grimley should not be harassing a referee, which if you read Paddy Heaney's last 'opinion' piece he states strongly citing Crossmaglen as perfect examples of how to conduct yourself.
What's next? Armagh CB condemn opposition for 'I rid your sister' comment quoting Rule 19.16 of the GAA handbook 'no slagging of sisters or mothers'
Facepalm me son.
Kerry people need to get over their obsession with Northern teams, even when one of them is playing for Laois he can't hide his hatred. They should ban Sheehan for a long time and with any luck he'd head back home where he belongs.
We've had enough of his hard man act and his constant handpassing. Learn how to kick Billy.
Is British a race?
There is no doubt that McKeever should simply have shown his displeasure by having a great second half rather than by getting sent off. Armagh could have beaten Laois and having 14 men did not help. If someone calls you a Queen lover then point out that A Night at the Opera was indeed a great album.
But there is a broader point about the acceptability of this kind of thing.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 21, 2012, 10:35:52 AM
Thats right, brush it all under the carpet...Southerners who do not experience racial abuse..What about the other week when there was an add in Australia stating 'No Irish' the southern media were quick to get on that one...but when it is aimed at someone up North - not a word.
Would seriously hope that Armagh consider withdrawing from competition, GAA is a joke and it is continuing to be one.
Untrue:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-angry-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse-3056421.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-angry-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse-3056421.html)
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2012/0321/313195-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2012/0321/313195-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse/)
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sectarian-storm-armagh-complain-of-racist-abuse-towards-players-391260-Mar2012/ (http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sectarian-storm-armagh-complain-of-racist-abuse-towards-players-391260-Mar2012/)
http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/03/21/Armagh-furious-at-McKeever-abuse/gnid-135476/ (http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/03/21/Armagh-furious-at-McKeever-abuse/gnid-135476/)
Alot of over-reaction here to one player slabbering at another. I'm sure McKeever dishes out verbals as often as he does illegal hits. I saw a picture of him in the Irish News on Monday - you would swear he was just after being told of a bereavement. What Sheehan allegedly has said is obviously words of a wa**er, but would they cause you any real offence if they were said to you on a football/hurling pitch? Is it any different than the usual verbals that goes on? If McKeever struck Sheehan then he is at fault. Talk of giving Sheehan a ban of equal or greater length than McKeever is nonsense, sure if that was the case we will have players running to the referee during matches with one hand in the air shouting 'Sir, sir he called me a bad name'. I am more surprised that Sheehan actually still plays for Laois, didn't think they were that poor these days.
Nordies. ::)
Always causing trouble for the rest of us.
It will be compared to all other slagging, but I think its clear there is a hierarchy of abuse, and this is relatively high up the scale compared to some of the other insults its being compared to (imo of course), I know it always really annoyed me.
Someone earlier referred to the meeja campaign against northerners for years - no doubt such a statement seems overblown, but I really do believe that in the years of the troubles, to help them deal with their own self image, a lot of people in the south, encouraged by the meeja slant to stories, began to think of those in the north as different and this kinda stuff is an effect of that
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 21, 2012, 01:32:15 PM
Alot of over-reaction here to one player slabbering at another. I'm sure McKeever dishes out verbals as often as he does illegal hits. I saw a picture of him in the Irish News on Monday - you would swear he was just after being told of a bereavement. What Sheehan allegedly has said is obviously words of a wa**er, but would they cause you any real offence if they were said to you on a football/hurling pitch? Is it any different than the usual verbals that goes on? If McKeever struck Sheehan then he is at fault. Talk of giving Sheehan a ban of equal or greater length than McKeever is nonsense, sure if that was the case we will have players running to the referee during matches with one hand in the air shouting 'Sir, sir he called me a bad name'. I am more surprised that Sheehan actually still plays for Laois, didn't think they were that poor these days.
I Can't agree with you there, many northerners take extreme exception to their national idenity being questioned, being from South Armagh it is unlikely that Ciaran McKeever or his family would have been untouched by the conflict which would heighten sensitivity. Older people like myself would also have first hand experience of the British Presence in Ireland as we travelled to games. There is as I have stated before an underbelly currently in the south that does not consider Northern Irish people to be real Irish people, some of it is born from 90 years of partition and the troubles where they grew up not knowing the North. Sadly and again I've articulated this elsewhere there is an overwhelming majority in the South who have no interest in the strengthing of our national identity as a 32 County Country. Perhaps it's time we kicked Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal out of the Ulster Championship and held our own All (N) Ireland in casement? :o
Quote from: Tubberman on March 21, 2012, 01:26:14 PM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 21, 2012, 10:35:52 AM
Thats right, brush it all under the carpet...Southerners who do not experience racial abuse..What about the other week when there was an add in Australia stating 'No Irish' the southern media were quick to get on that one...but when it is aimed at someone up North - not a word.
Would seriously hope that Armagh consider withdrawing from competition, GAA is a joke and it is continuing to be one.
Untrue:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-angry-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse-3056421.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-angry-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse-3056421.html)
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2012/0321/313195-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2012/0321/313195-armagh-hit-out-at-partitionist-abuse/)
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sectarian-storm-armagh-complain-of-racist-abuse-towards-players-391260-Mar2012/ (http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sectarian-storm-armagh-complain-of-racist-abuse-towards-players-391260-Mar2012/)
http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/03/21/Armagh-furious-at-McKeever-abuse/gnid-135476/ (http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/03/21/Armagh-furious-at-McKeever-abuse/gnid-135476/)
Fair enough Tubberman, it wasn't coming up on news feeds on google.
But with people comparing fans to players is a joke. Firstly in sport players are suppose to have some sort of mutual respect for each other, while there will be times when players goad the opposition getting personal about it is over the top. Ciaran should not have reacted, but its also fair to say that he could have been targeted for abuse considering he is a key player in the Armagh team and he is known to let his frustration show.
As for Sheehan, well we all know he is a prat and hopefully one day he will get the chance to shout his mouth around south Armagh and we will see how much of a big man he really thinks he is.
This is all a bit embarrassing ::)
Surely a curt "Not today, Billy" from McKeever would have ended the banter.
Some boys and one county boord making twits of themselves on this thread.
Am I the only armagh man cringing at this sectarian abuse shite.
People say poor tast things in games all the time to get a rise.
I'd be pretty sure McKeever couldn't give a damn about what was said to him - I assume this is a smokescreen from the co board / management to mount some type of defence.
McKeever looks like some baby with Grimley hugging him as he leaves the field.
Has the title 'hard man' ever been bestowed on a less deserving player?
Possibly Billy Sheehan now that I think about it.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 02:00:53 PM
Perhaps it's time we kicked Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal out of the Ulster Championship and held our own All (N) Ireland in casement? :o
I've never heard these counties at it, dont think I ever will either
Armagh seem to be very sore losers.
Surely by crying racism then the Armagh co board are actually reinforcing the notion that those from the north are actually of a different race?
I'd say Peter Robinson has been told to start reading this thread by now as it makes for good reading for him and his party. To read lines like the Southerners don't want the 6 counties and can't relate to those people any more must give him great hope of there never being a united Ireland.
Its probably exactly what he wanted when he started courting our games and nationalists voters.
What I'm gonna say next is probably gonna be very controversial to loads of ye but its my honest opinion of a Northerner living in the South for a good while. I don't wish to offend anyone but its just my own opinions.
I have lived here in Dublin for almost 15 years now with a 2 year spell back in Belfast around 2005 and whilst I come from Tyrone I definitely seem to see myself more Irish now than when I lived in the North. That could be down to the media here and the lack of communication with Unionists or the British media. When I first moved here I used to always watch the UTV or BBC N.I news but I hardly ever do now. It could also be to do with the fact that I never have to think about is my audience Catholic or Protestant. Will I offend them if I say this or that? If you meet Protestants and English here, they do seem to play the we're in Ireland now and not our own country role.
Other simple things which perhaps make me feel this way is like putting 0044 in front of mobile Nos to ring my brother in the North makes me feel he is not in Ireland but its a different International code. I know he's just up the road but it feels different. We all get that different feeling when we cross the border. We expect things to be more expensive in the South.
When I get emails from mates with .co.uk addresses rather than .ie.
I set up our own club website and changed the domain from .co.uk to .ie which meant a lot to them.
My point is that whilst it really infuriates me when people call me a West Brit or some derogatory name to do with the UK or Norn Iron, I can also see why so many Southerners for so long don't see us as part of their own wee country.
A lot of them see us as being very aggressive and cheeky who always want the best of both worlds. ie. Claim to be Irish but claim all the British benefits and grants we can get.
Its not that long ago most Southerners would have never crossed the border for fear of getting into trouble. A mate at work told me he went up to a gig in the Odyssey not too long ago and they asked a bus inspector what bus to they get and he told them with their accents they'd be better getting a taxi.
In the GAA circles in the last 10 years or so, I think both parties are guilty a bit of crying wolf.
The Southerners love to call our football dirty and negative and win at all costs with loads of "off the ball" antics but as we all know Kerry & the Dubs have been at this crap for years but it often gets swept under the carpet.
Us Nordies too though get carried away sometimes with all this Anti Northern bias.
Whilst I do see some bias here and there, I think we let our selves down too much by playing this whinging card. Its a little like Africans playing the racist card at every possibility.
Saying that however, maybe its cos we're backed into a corner as the Southern medja are happy to pick on us Nordie counties and overlook loads of other incidents with the same attention. However our Northern medja hardly defend us too well either with the BBC & UTV delighted to highlight any violence at GAA matches and not show the positives like how supporters can sit next to each other and enjoy a hightly competitive game without rioting like the soccer lads.
There has been anti Northern slagging and name calling for years between North & Southern counties if we're honest. The Dubs especially used to give us a hard time as they'd be gathered in mass groups and used to the soccer style chanting etc that still goes on. So whilst I was annoyed by this latest attack on McKeever (Who I greatly dislike but think he's a great player) and now I read on the whole Armagh team, I think we just need to wise up and get on with it.
I suppose there seems to have developed a mentality now in GAA that the CCCC are using video evidence selectively to punish some people whilst others get away with things. So some clubs and counties are now taking the attitude we will fight this campaign on us with public statements to the media and make official complaints. I agree with Sheamy, was it, that, had McKeever not been sent off then no such statement would be made. Likewise if Dromid had beaten Derrytresk that day I don't see the public outrage that happened afterwards.
It certainly is sending us down the road of the school-yard "he hit me sir" route which I think can really undermine our games.
To be honest I'm kinda glad that the issue of calling Northerners British B*****DS has been highlighted as it seems to be growing in recent years. As a few people said, you don't know who's family members could have been killed by the British soldiers etc. Not only is it hard enough to deal with that, you now have to deal with some ignorant Southerner who rubs your nose in that loss by calling you a name that is akin to the people who murdered them in the first place. Harsh or is it just casual name calling.
Its like some lad playing for Dublin, his son having been murdered to do with drugs and then some Meath man calling him a drug pusher in a match. It's a bit hard to take and not just the same as calling someone a F**ing W**ker now is it.
Sorry for the rant but I notice here today loads of Dubs are hearing all this on the news and thinking "Jeez those Nordies do some crying yet they are the worst for gamesmanship"
I know a lot is said on the football field and in the stands that is banter and meant to wind people up, but the whole british, go back up north rubbish has become increasingly noticable since the demise of the celtic tiger. I work mainly in the south and the number of times i've been told to go back home or what are you doing down here taking our jobs has increased dramatically in the last 4 years. I wouldn't mind but i only live 15 minutes from Dundalk.
I don't think some people quite understand the sacrifices some players and clubs have had to endure in the last 40 years across the border just to play the game and keep clubs in existence. To some it may seem trivial to be called a British B******d but after years of harrassment and finally now, after gaining some parity and acceptance from both sides of the community in the north as to our Irishness, culture and sporting heritage, ignorant or ill-educated individuals feel it is acceptable to casually mouth off what they like just because we are from certain counties.
Maybe if they as a child going to school in Armagh like me, on my first day were told not to take a GAA bag for fear of getting a kicking at the mall they might think differently. Or if they were held regularly for over an hour at a checkpoint on the way to a game just because the local police knew it was on. Never mind all the clubs that have been vandalised or burnt only for insurance companies to turn round and say its not covered. Not to mention gaa members that have been killed solely because they were an easy target and identifiable.
I'm not jumping to the defence of McKeever and I certainly think the county board should have dealt with it differently, but too many people on here are trying to belittle the significance of what is happening within the GAA society and the clear division between the north and south that has escalated in recent years. This matter needs to be dealt with urgently before it causes serious disharmony within the GAA as a whole.
After what the GAA community have endured to help the games survive and flourish in the north all we ask from the rest of the country is a bit of respect and to be treated and looked upon equally.
Quote from: splintered arse on March 21, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
I know a lot is said on the football field and in the stands that is banter and meant to wind people up, but the whole british, go back up north rubbish has become increasingly noticable since the demise of the celtic tiger. I work mainly in the south and the number of times i've been told to go back home or what are you doing down here taking our jobs has increased dramatically in the last 4 years. I wouldn't mind but i only live 15 minutes from Dundalk.
I don't think some people quite understand the sacrifices some players and clubs have had to endure in the last 40 years across the border just to play the game and keep clubs in existence. To some it may seem trivial to be called a British B******d but after years of harrassment and finally now, after gaining some parity and acceptance from both sides of the community in the north as to our Irishness, culture and sporting heritage, ignorant or ill-educated individuals feel it is acceptable to casually mouth off what they like just because we are from certain counties.
Maybe if they as a child going to school in Armagh like me, on my first day were told not to take a GAA bag for fear of getting a kicking at the mall they might think differently. Or if they were held regularly for over an hour at a checkpoint on the way to a game just because the local police knew it was on. Never mind all the clubs that have been vandalised or burnt only for insurance companies to turn round and say its not covered. Not to mention gaa members that have been killed solely because they were an easy target and identifiable.
I'm not jumping to the defence of McKeever and I certainly think the county board should have dealt with it differently, but too many people on here are trying to belittle the significance of what is happening within the GAA society and the clear division between the north and south that has escalated in recent years. This matter needs to be dealt with urgently before it causes serious disharmony within the GAA as a whole.
After what the GAA community have endured to help the games survive and flourish in the north all we ask from the rest of the country is a bit of respect and to be treated and looked upon equally.
It's more noticeable since 2002 I'd say.
Never seemed to be a problem in the early 90's when northern teams were winning all-irelands.
People were happy for them.
I blame Armagh and Tyrone personally.
Their fans were pretty belligerent it has to said and this may have been due to their relative lack of tradition and an in-built inferiority complex.
Good post Fuzzman.
There's no doubt that stuff like this....
Quote from: splintered arse on March 21, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
After what the GAA community have endured to help the games survive and flourish in the north all we ask from the rest of the country is a bit of respect and to be treated and looked upon equally.
... just makes me ::)
given how often the LondonDerry jibe comes from other Northern counties and Dubs are often on the receiving end of the West Brit and FreeState bast**d jibes.
But Fuzzman's post put the position very well.
JinXy,
Its always been there but since the economy has went to pot the whole go back up north attitude has definately increased and this has nothing to do with football. I'm on about society in general. I thought that at least people within the GAA would have had more respect but obviously not.
Quote from: splintered arse on March 21, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
I know a lot is said on the football field and in the stands that is banter and meant to wind people up, but the whole british, go back up north rubbish has become increasingly noticable since the demise of the celtic tiger. I work mainly in the south and the number of times i've been told to go back home or what are you doing down here taking our jobs has increased dramatically in the last 4 years. I wouldn't mind but i only live 15 minutes from Dundalk.
I don't think some people quite understand the sacrifices some players and clubs have had to endure in the last 40 years across the border just to play the game and keep clubs in existence. To some it may seem trivial to be called a British B******d but after years of harrassment and finally now, after gaining some parity and acceptance from both sides of the community in the north as to our Irishness, culture and sporting heritage, ignorant or ill-educated individuals feel it is acceptable to casually mouth off what they like just because we are from certain counties.
Maybe if they as a child going to school in Armagh like me, on my first day were told not to take a GAA bag for fear of getting a kicking at the mall they might think differently. Or if they were held regularly for over an hour at a checkpoint on the way to a game just because the local police knew it was on. Never mind all the clubs that have been vandalised or burnt only for insurance companies to turn round and say its not covered. Not to mention gaa members that have been killed solely because they were an easy target and identifiable.
I'm not jumping to the defence of McKeever and I certainly think the county board should have dealt with it differently, but too many people on here are trying to belittle the significance of what is happening within the GAA society and the clear division between the north and south that has escalated in recent years. This matter needs to be dealt with urgently before it causes serious disharmony within the GAA as a whole.
After what the GAA community have endured to help the games survive and flourish in the north all we ask from the rest of the country is a bit of respect and to be treated and looked upon equally.
excellent post. I can certainly relate to the dont take a GAA bag as I come form a very divided town
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 21, 2012, 02:38:53 PM
Am I the only armagh man cringing at this sectarian abuse shite.
People say poor tast things in games all the time to get a rise.
I'd be pretty sure McKeever couldn't give a damn about what was said to him - I assume this is a smokescreen from the co board / management to mount some type of defence.
I'm an Armagh man and I'm cringing as well. What is said on the field should stay on the field. I can only speak for myself when I say that I certainly don't feel any inferiority complex when it comes to North v South so why should we claim 'race' issues. It's a red herring from the co board to plead leniency on the suspensions but has been badly advised.
If someone called me a British b*****d i would laugh at the absurdity because they don't even know me or my beliefs and I know I feel more Irish than a lot of southerners. I can say this because I live literally yards from the border and knowing McKeever I don't think he would have give a s**t what was said to him either.
Quote from: AQMP on March 21, 2012, 02:33:13 PM
This is all a bit embarrassing ::)
Ach don't be embarrassed sure you can't help yourself.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 02:00:53 PM
Perhaps it's time we kicked Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal out of the Ulster Championship and held our own All (N) Ireland in casement? :o
I've never heard these counties at it, dont think I ever will either
But if we're going to get all partitionist then since they in the south they could't play...that comment about the AI was tongue firmly in cheek.
Excellent post Fuzzman.
Looking from a slightly different angle and you did touch on it, Ulster GAA is trying hard to appeal to those from Unionist backgrounds. How on earth are incidents like this going to help if they go unpunished?
Although you'd expect someone like McKeever to maybe be a bit more thick-skinned when someone slabbers at him, who's to say he didn't have an uncle or a relative shot by the BA? Given the history of Co Armagh it isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
It's all well and good telling northerners not to be so sensitive but how many people grew up in the same environment where simply being a member of the GAA could cost you your life?
Good post from Splintered and Fuzzman. Whilst perhaps the ACB could have dealt with it more diplomatically it is no less offensive to call some one a British Bastard than it is to call Southerners freestaters. I don't think it is in any way acceptable for any player to abuse someone else in this manner. Banter beween fans is one thing. As I posted previously it all depends on context. The partitionist mindset is firmly ingrained on both sides of the border though and the DUP if they'd any sense would copper fasten the Irish indentity of nationalists up here by accepting our flags and symbols as equal to the UJ and GSTQ. That would kill any move for unity stone dead.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2012, 03:39:33 PM
It's more noticeable since 2002 I'd say.
Never seemed to be a problem in the early 90's when northern teams were winning all-irelands.
People were happy for them.
I blame Armagh and Tyrone personally.
Their fans were pretty belligerent it has to said and this may have been due to their relative lack of tradition and an in-built inferiority complex.
:D
Aye, better class of northerners back then Jinxy. You're dead right sur. Personally, I blame Pat Spillane and Joe Brolly for the whole thing.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 12:54:38 PM
Kerry people need to get over their obsession with Northern teams, even when one of them is playing for Laois he can't hide his hatred. They should ban Sheehan for a long time and with any luck he'd head back home where he belongs.
We've had enough of his hard man act and his constant handpassing. Learn how to kick Billy.
Dont Matter, does anyone know how Billy Sheehan keeps his place on the Laois team. Any time I see his name on a Laois selection I know that they are going nowhere. Ye should have got rid of him years ago.
There is a big point which is being overlooked here to a certain degree, 2 officials were aware of the verbal abuse during the match and decided to ignore/overlook it instead of dealing with it at the time. All we are looking is a fair crack of the whip, which by the way Armagh were not afforded on Sunday
Quote from: fitzroyalty on March 21, 2012, 04:03:07 PM
Excellent post Fuzzman.
Looking from a slightly different angle and you did touch on it, Ulster GAA is trying hard to appeal to those from Unionist backgrounds. How on earth are incidents like this going to help if they go unpunished?
Although you'd expect someone like McKeever to maybe be a bit more thick-skinned when someone slabbers at him, who's to say he didn't have an uncle or a relative shot by the BA? Given the history of Co Armagh it isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
It's all well and good telling northerners not to be so sensitive but how many people grew up in the same environment where simply being a member of the GAA could cost you your life?
Would a unionist be offended if someone called them a British bastard?
Quote from: Onlooker on March 21, 2012, 04:20:53 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 12:54:38 PM
Kerry people need to get over their obsession with Northern teams, even when one of them is playing for Laois he can't hide his hatred. They should ban Sheehan for a long time and with any luck he'd head back home where he belongs.
We've had enough of his hard man act and his constant handpassing. Learn how to kick Billy.
Dont Matter, does anyone know how Billy Sheehan keeps his place on the Laois team. Any time I see his name on a Laois selection I know that they are going nowhere. Ye should have got rid of him years ago.
Most people in Laois are of the same opinion, he doesn't offer much. Apparently he's a very good trainer, works very hard but I think he will be droped once a few injuries clear up.
The bad thing for us is there is not much better than him making themselves availbale this year.
Its a f**king joke and if it had been anybody bar McKeever I could have seen past it. Sledging goes on in sport world wide, and to be frankly honest I think the whole thing is a joke. The world is creating f**king namby pamby ginnits who stick the chest out at one minute and then cower the next. McKeever if he had any sense would have bided his time and buried thon nhemancy through the wire and at least of he got a red card he would have deserved it. Now he looks like a cry baby who will get dogs abuse for running to the press. Ginnits the lot of them.
Quote from: Stevie Nicks on March 21, 2012, 04:23:39 PM
There is a big point which is being overlooked here to a certain degree, 2 officials were aware of the verbal abuse during the match and decided to ignore/overlook it instead of dealing with it at the time. All we are looking is a fair crack of the whip, which by the way Armagh were not afforded on Sunday
Armagh gave the world Padraig Hughes. It's called Karma.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2012, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on March 21, 2012, 04:03:07 PM
Excellent post Fuzzman.
Looking from a slightly different angle and you did touch on it, Ulster GAA is trying hard to appeal to those from Unionist backgrounds. How on earth are incidents like this going to help if they go unpunished?
Although you'd expect someone like McKeever to maybe be a bit more thick-skinned when someone slabbers at him, who's to say he didn't have an uncle or a relative shot by the BA? Given the history of Co Armagh it isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
It's all well and good telling northerners not to be so sensitive but how many people grew up in the same environment where simply being a member of the GAA could cost you your life?
Would a unionist be offended if someone called them a British b**tard?
I would imagine so as it would still be a racist comment a bit like Irish Bastard again depends on context.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2012, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on March 21, 2012, 04:03:07 PM
Excellent post Fuzzman.
Looking from a slightly different angle and you did touch on it, Ulster GAA is trying hard to appeal to those from Unionist backgrounds. How on earth are incidents like this going to help if they go unpunished?
Although you'd expect someone like McKeever to maybe be a bit more thick-skinned when someone slabbers at him, who's to say he didn't have an uncle or a relative shot by the BA? Given the history of Co Armagh it isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
It's all well and good telling northerners not to be so sensitive but how many people grew up in the same environment where simply being a member of the GAA could cost you your life?
Would a unionist be offended if someone called them a British b**tard?
Right so if I bring a fella from Lurgn rugby club down to training tonight and someone calls him a British bastard. How do you think he'll react? Bear in mind the rugby club is on the edge of a Loyalist estate.
I'll be expecting lots of righteous indignation from the press this weekend :o
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6937926.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6937926.stm)
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n17/fintan-otoole/diary (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n17/fintan-otoole/diary)
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/protestant-gaa-star-hounded-out-by-vile-taunts-1049377.html
(http://www.independent.ie/national-news/protestant-gaa-star-hounded-out-by-vile-taunts-1049377.html)
Also I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue. Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement. Ciaran McKeever was not abused because of any of these issues. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. These comments were not this either. They do amounty to a form of xenophbia but this is not a crime nor associated to a crime. Throwing these comments out like this willy nilly are dangerous and unhelpful to people who really are suffering racist or sectarian abuse.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 04:48:53 PM
Also I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue. Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement. Ciaran McKeever was not abused because of any of these issues. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. These comments were not this either. They do amounty to a form of xenophbia but this is not a crime nor associated to a crime. Throwing these comments out like this willy nilly are dangerous and unhelpful to people who really are suffering racist or sectarian abuse.
How do you figure that? What was different about the abuse McKeever recieved and that doled out to Darren Graham?
Quote from: Hound on March 21, 2012, 03:42:14 PM
There's no doubt that stuff like this....
Quote from: splintered arse on March 21, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
After what the GAA community have endured to help the games survive and flourish in the north all we ask from the rest of the country is a bit of respect and to be treated and looked upon equally.
... just makes me ::)
They say a sign of intelligence is being able to put yourself firmly in another mans shoes and really see things from his perspective. What level of intelligence must it take to instead, just roll your eyes? That post of yours just sums it up really. It's pointed out that GAA people in the north put their lives at risk to keep the association alive and took a serious bit of harassment for doing so, and when told of this your response is a " ::)"?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 04:38:17 PM
Its a f**king joke and if it had been anybody bar McKeever I could have seen past it. Sledging goes on in sport world wide, and to be frankly honest I think the whole thing is a joke. The world is creating f**king namby pamby ginnits who stick the chest out at one minute and then cower the next. McKeever if he had any sense would have bided his time and buried thon nhemancy through the wire and at least of he got a red card he would have deserved it. Now he looks like a cry baby who will get dogs abuse for running to the press. Ginnits the lot of them.
We can't be sure that it was McKeever who ran to the press but whoever it was needs to cop themselves on. McKeever will bear the brunt in games to come because of it though. the self appointed moralists in society will have a field day again. How the Armagh Co Board can think that the 'Mammy he called me a so and so' approach will garner much sympathy is beyond me. Nancy boys the lot of them!
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:56:29 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 04:48:53 PM
Also I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue. Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement. Ciaran McKeever was not abused because of any of these issues. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. These comments were not this either. They do amounty to a form of xenophbia but this is not a crime nor associated to a crime. Throwing these comments out like this willy nilly are dangerous and unhelpful to people who really are suffering racist or sectarian abuse.
How do you figure that? What was different about the abuse McKeever recieved and that doled out to Darren Graham?
It's a joke and you know it is Ulick. Graham was abused because he is Protestant. It was clearly sectarian. What McKeever was called was neother sectarian nor racist. Frankly, I think in irrespective of whatever McKeever was called he should have kept his powder dry and waited his chance. People are too quick these days to jump for the racist/sectarian/homophobic card and I think that it creates the scenario where real instances of bigotry are missed or diluted. Armagh should have shut their mouth and sorted out to me what seems like a general discipline problem which has been growing within the current squad.
Yellowcard, I agree that we can't be sure that it was McKeever who made tha approach but you know what the perception will be.
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:56:29 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 04:48:53 PM
Also I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue. Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement. Ciaran McKeever was not abused because of any of these issues. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. These comments were not this either. They do amounty to a form of xenophbia but this is not a crime nor associated to a crime. Throwing these comments out like this willy nilly are dangerous and unhelpful to people who really are suffering racist or sectarian abuse.
How do you figure that? What was different about the abuse McKeever recieved and that doled out to Darren Graham?
He was one... ;)
I'm quite surprised at how many people are trying to play this down here. I've got thick skin, and I can take a laugh and a bit of craic as much as the next person, but I will say this, if someone, especially a fellow Irish man called me a 'British B***ard', whether in jest or for insult, my reaction would not be a civil one. And lets be honest, when someone comes out with that statement they know full well what their doing. I make no excuses for ignorance from anyone on the Island of Ireland regarding the meaning of this insult.
It makes me query the hierarchy of those who can feel insulted. We do not use the term n****r to a black man, as it provokes images of the worst treatment that any human being should have to face. black people were dehumanised, starved, raped, deposed, murdered by the British (and other) slave owners who gave them that label in order to subordinate them. This is an accepted rule that to apply a label onto someone in order to insult or dehumanise is wrong, yet when it applies to a Northern Catholic then we should just suck it up and laugh it off. There are some insults that you do not throw and this is most definitely one of them. Because contrary to what many southerners believe, we had enough at the hands of the British in very recent times, you have a short memory as it was not too long ago that you too fell under their so called slave ownership. Try calling a black man a 'slave owning b***ard' and see if you walk away with two legs intact.
Also, the point re McKeever is that he was punished even though the ref witnessed the continued provocation and did nothing. To me this is provocation in the extreme and no GAA player should be subjected to this or have to tolerate it. Highlight it surely, and lets see what will be done. My guess is nothing!
This better not turn into a Kerry/Tyrone thing, what reception will Laois folk get next time we're up in Armagh?
Quote from: sheamy on March 21, 2012, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Stevie Nicks on March 21, 2012, 04:23:39 PM
There is a big point which is being overlooked here to a certain degree, 2 officials were aware of the verbal abuse during the match and decided to ignore/overlook it instead of dealing with it at the time. All we are looking is a fair crack of the whip, which by the way Armagh were not afforded on Sunday
Armagh gave the world Padraig Hughes. It's called Karma.
the best yet ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 05:18:45 PM
This better not turn into a Kerry/Tyrone thing, what reception will Laois folk get next time we're up in Armagh?
The actions of one idiot player and a balless official can not be held against a county, although your county board could have handled it better.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 05:18:45 PM
This better not turn into a Kerry/Tyrone thing, what reception will Laois folk get next time we're up in Armagh?
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/01_03/BaronessLL1401_468x389.jpg)
Quote from: Aoise on March 21, 2012, 05:11:31 PM
I'm quite surprised at how many people are trying to play this down here. I've got thick skin, and I can take a laugh and a bit of craic as much as the next person, but I will say this, if someone, especially a fellow Irish man called me a 'British B***ard', whether in jest or for insult, my reaction would not be a civil one. And lets be honest, when someone comes out with that statement they know full well what their doing. I make no excuses for ignorance from anyone on the Island of Ireland regarding the meaning of this insult.
It makes me query the hierarchy of those who can feel insulted. We do not use the term n****r to a black man, as it provokes images of the worst treatment that any human being should have to face. black people were dehumanised, starved, raped, deposed, murdered by the British (and other) slave owners who gave them that label in order to subordinate them. This is an accepted rule that to apply a label onto someone in order to insult or dehumanise is wrong, yet when it applies to a Northern Catholic then we should just suck it up and laugh it off. There are some insults that you do not throw and this is most definitely one of them. Because contrary to what many southerners believe, we had enough at the hands of the British in very recent times, you have a short memory as it was not too long ago that you too fell under their so called slave ownership. Try calling a black man a 'slave owning b***ard' and see if you walk away with two legs intact.
Also, the point re McKeever is that he was punished even though the ref witnessed the continued provocation and did nothing. To me this is provocation in the extreme and no GAA player should be subjected to this or have to tolerate it. Highlight it surely, and lets see what will be done. My guess is nothing!
About
here is where you lost me.
Quote from: Aoise on March 21, 2012, 05:11:31 PM
I'm quite surprised at how many people are trying to play this down here. I've got thick skin, and I can take a laugh and a bit of craic as much as the next person, but I will say this, if someone, especially a fellow Irish man called me a 'British B***ard', whether in jest or for insult, my reaction would not be a civil one. And lets be honest, when someone comes out with that statement they know full well what their doing. I make no excuses for ignorance from anyone on the Island of Ireland regarding the meaning of this insult.
It makes me query the hierarchy of those who can feel insulted. We do not use the term n****r to a black man, as it provokes images of the worst treatment that any human being should have to face. black people were dehumanised, starved, raped, deposed, murdered by the British (and other) slave owners who gave them that label in order to subordinate them. This is an accepted rule that to apply a label onto someone in order to insult or dehumanise is wrong, yet when it applies to a Northern Catholic then we should just suck it up and laugh it off. There are some insults that you do not throw and this is most definitely one of them. Because contrary to what many southerners believe, we had enough at the hands of the British in very recent times, you have a short memory as it was not too long ago that you too fell under their so called slave ownership. Try calling a black man a 'slave owning b***ard' and see if you walk away with two legs intact.
Also, the point re McKeever is that he was punished even though the ref witnessed the continued provocation and did nothing. To me this is provocation in the extreme and no GAA player should be subjected to this or have to tolerate it. Highlight it surely, and lets see what will be done. My guess is nothing!
Are you serious? Your equating the slavery of blacks with calling McKeever a British b*****d! Ring Joe Duffy tomorrow and express your outrage at this incident and you will likely get some air time.
Lets be honest the only reason this was brought up by Armagh management/Co Board is because of the sending off and suspensions meted out. Dramatising the event to the extreme that you have gone to is simply ludicrous.
I am outraged by this!
I am also prepared to become even more outraged given any indication that this outrage might get Paul Grimley or Ciaran McKeever off the hook.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 05:04:32 PM
It's a joke and you know it is Ulick. Graham was abused because he is Protestant. It was clearly sectarian. What McKeever was called was neother sectarian nor racist. Frankly, I think in irrespective of whatever McKeever was called he should have kept his powder dry and waited his chance. People are too quick these days to jump for the racist/sectarian/homophobic card and I think that it creates the scenario where real instances of bigotry are missed or diluted. Armagh should have shut their mouth and sorted out to me what seems like a general discipline problem which has been growing within the current squad.
Yellowcard, I agree that we can't be sure that it was McKeever who made tha approach but you know what the perception will be.
Graham got a bit of sledging about being a Prod, McKeever for being a Nordie, no big deal in either case, you take your medicine. However if one is 'sectarian' then so is the other.
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:56:29 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 04:48:53 PM
Also I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue. Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement. Ciaran McKeever was not abused because of any of these issues. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. These comments were not this either. They do amounty to a form of xenophbia but this is not a crime nor associated to a crime. Throwing these comments out like this willy nilly are dangerous and unhelpful to people who really are suffering racist or sectarian abuse.
How do you figure that? What was different about the abuse McKeever recieved and that doled out to Darren Graham?
What a hypocrite!
I remember you around the time of the presidential election dishing out this "free state bastards" stuff and other general partitionist stuff.
the word your looking for is XENOPHOBIA the hatred of another nationality or in this case percieved nationality
McKeever was pissed off because the Laois player knew more of GSTQ than he did.
Quote from: lawnseed on March 21, 2012, 06:57:33 PM
the word your looking for is XENOPHOBIA the hatred of another nationality or in this case percieved nationality
Exactly what I said and consequently should not be mixed up with sectarianism. I believe the County Board in their efforts to deflect from McKeevers transgressions have scored an own goal.
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:49:59 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:56:29 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 04:48:53 PM
Also I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue. Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement. Ciaran McKeever was not abused because of any of these issues. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. These comments were not this either. They do amounty to a form of xenophbia but this is not a crime nor associated to a crime. Throwing these comments out like this willy nilly are dangerous and unhelpful to people who really are suffering racist or sectarian abuse.
How do you figure that? What was different about the abuse McKeever recieved and that doled out to Darren Graham?
What a hypocrite!
I remember you around the time of the presidential election dishing out this "free state b**tards" stuff and other general partitionist stuff.
Maybe you missed this bit:
Quote from: Ulick
Graham got a bit of sledging about being a Prod, McKeever for being a Nordie, no big deal in either case, you take your medicine.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 21, 2012, 06:57:33 PM
the word your looking for is XENOPHOBIA the hatred of another nationality or in this case percieved nationality
Exactly what I said and consequently should not be mixed up with sectarianism. I believe the County Board in their efforts to deflect from McKeevers transgressions have scored an own goal.
Right then are you two redefining the common accepted meaning of sectarianism in the north? It's not really "sectarianism" but "xenophobia". Not saying I disagree with you, but you can't blame the County Board with using the same term everyone else uses.
The County board have defintely overplayed their hand and I'd also imagine McKeever isn't a willing participant in the charade as I doubt he gives a flying one, but I'd agree there is a Societal issue there, I'd also imagine refs will be taking action in future.
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 07:20:57 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 21, 2012, 06:57:33 PM
the word your looking for is XENOPHOBIA the hatred of another nationality or in this case percieved nationality
Exactly what I said and consequently should not be mixed up with sectarianism. I believe the County Board in their efforts to deflect from McKeevers transgressions have scored an own goal.
Right then are you two redefining the common accepted meaning of sectarianism in the north? It's not really "sectarianism" but "xenophobia". Not saying I disagree with you, but you can't blame the County Board with using the same term everyone else uses.
Personally I am disagreeing with the "common accepted meaning" in this instance. Context is everything and in this situation there was no level of "bigotry" which is commonly accepted as part of the meaning. To accept otherwise is to accept that any reference can be seen to be either racist or sectarian. If a black man calls another black man a nigger is he being racist? If he uses is as a term of friendship as is often the case, is it still racist? If I call friends who are English Brit Imperialist Bastards is that sectarian? (I do that and they call me a dirty fenian, it is all about context though) I really couldn't care less, I simply feel that this is stretching the terms racist and sectarian to the enth degree and has no benefit to anyone. Armagh CB have gone down in my estimation big time.
The stuff county boards come out with on a regular basis really does the GAA no favours.
It's grist to the mill for reporters.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 21, 2012, 07:49:59 PM
The stuff county boards come out with on a regular basis really does the GAA no favours.
It's grist to the mill for reporters.
It bes amateurish aright... ;)
The county board statement is embarrassing and I don't know why McKeever didn't respond with "German bastard" and walk away but in this day and age an organisation like the GAA can't have players giving out that sort of abuse. It shouldn't be treated any differently to racist abuse and has to be stamped out if we want to expand in to protestant areas/schools in the north or to other countries.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on March 21, 2012, 08:22:56 PM
I don't know why McKeever didn't respond with "German b**tard" and walk away
You are a bigger eejit than McKeever.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 21, 2012, 08:50:56 PM
The county board jumped in for a simple reason and it had little to do with the card for McKeever. Everyone knew that once Grimley would be reported for his words with the referee he was sure thing for a lengthy ban.
I know from bitter experience that once a referee writes a report (even when blatantly untrue as in my case) you have no chance. The rules state that the referee will always be believed regardless of what he writes and no one can counter his statement. Justice is not a factor. So the county board have made the greatest fuss possible by wrongly claiming racism when it has nothing to do with racism, it is xenophobia if not just a simple waving of a red flag to get a required reaction. It is wrong but not racism or sectarian simply Irish man abuse Irish man.
It would be interesting to see if the same reaction would have been drawn from management or county board if it was another player rather than McKeever but someone who contributes just as much to the team.
this is all about the 3 months for grimley
referee has claimed abusive language by grimley and reccommended suspension yet disregards the laois player`s comments which he heard he chose to ignore
this is why the county board are crying foul, they are undermining the ref because he allowed it to happen ,
this is to get the recommendation thrown out
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:21:12 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 09:02:01 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 15, 2012, 06:08:54 PM
Jaysus some lads love being offended.
Le contexte c'est tout.
Ah right, so when it affects YOU it's different.
No, when congress organises a religious service of a Mass I wouldn't see it as anything worth getting the knickers in a twist over as most of the congress members are Catholic. It is safe to say no malice is intended on the part of anybody in the holding of the Mass and those who don't wish to go, are not forced to. On the contrary, when a player begins making
sustained abusive comments at another, it demonstrates open malice which shows no consideration for the possibility that the player being abused in this way could have personally suffered as a result of the conflict and the player being abused cannot simply choose not to be abused.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:38:42 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:21:12 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 09:02:01 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 15, 2012, 06:08:54 PM
Jaysus some lads love being offended.
Le contexte c'est tout.
Ah right, so when it affects YOU it's different.
No, when congress organises a religious service of a Mass I wouldn't see it as anything worth getting the knickers in a twist over as most of the congress members are Catholic. It is safe to say no malice is intended on the part of anybody in the holding of the Mass and those who don't wish to go, are not forced to. On the contrary, when a player begins making sustained abusive comments at another, it demonstrates open malice which shows no consideration for the possibility that the player being abused in this way could have personally suffered as a result of the conflict and the player being abused cannot simply choose not to be abused.
So it's your own narrow determination that decides it then. Got it. Let the MOPEry begin.
No more so than your narrow determination decides anything, but at least I gave my reasoning.
I'm not getting the difference between British Bastard and Londonderry Bastard.
I heard Billy Sheehan's great-grandfather touted on Roger Casement.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:44:36 PM
Please tell me then what is my narrow determination?
Well here's one:
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:21:12 PM
Ah right, so when it affects YOU it's different.
I gave my opinion. You seemed to accuse me of double standards, so I outlined my thoughts and reasoning for forming my opinion. What more can I do?
Yet rather than discussing my honestly given opinions and reasonings you just accused me of making "narrow determinations" and indulging in "MOPEry". Which is something of a cop out.
It has emerged today that Armagh captain Ciaran McKeever may actually possess a British passport. Investigative journalist Hamilton Maguire visited McKeever's townland to gauge reaction to the weekend's furore for laoisqueenscounty.ie. Before leaving he was passed information from a Post Office junior clerk saying that the Armagh strong-man may actually have a British passport.
Maguire concluded, "if this allegation is proven to be true, then the matter is closed. The Laois offender was actually stating a fact".
Armagh County Board last night still expressed concern at the "bastard" part of the supposed abuse and claim it has been directed at their players and has gone unpunished by the GAA for over one hundred years now even from people who are regular communicants.
It comes just 48 hours after their captain Ciaran McKeever was sent off for allegedly kicking a Laois opponent in the tunnel in O'Moore Park, Portlaoise at half-time in Sunday's league defeat. It nows emerges that the kick was wrongly dished out for a simple statement of fact. McKeever faces a two-match ban for the alleged incident, which he has vehemently denied to Armagh officials.
The GAA's Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) acted on referee Michael Duffy's report, which reported McKeever for the alleged kick and also proposed that Armagh assistant manager Paul Grimley should serve a three-month suspension for his angry confrontation with the match official after the game. Grimley has since claimed that if he had known that McKeever maybe possessed a British passport then he wouldn't have been so irksome with the officials as 'bastard' is something he has even called his brothers as a term of affection.
Duffy had red carded McKeever just before the second half restarted when the teams came back out on to the field. McKeever initially refused to leave the field, adamant he had done nothing wrong. The Post Office clerk said that the British passport was needed because the McKeevers had booked a holiday to Honolulu at Christmas and the Irish one would take a lot longer to process. He also claims that he's not even sure if it was Ciaran himself who signed the passport because all the brothers had 'that big McKeever head on them'.
The CB claimed that "alleged racist and personal abuse directed at our players is apparently going unpunished" and is contrary to GAA rule. Now they have changed their plea and are frantically searching the rule-book to see if there's any mention of unmarried parent abuse. If so, their assistant secretary claimed on twitter that 'we'll take these cnuts (sic) as far as we can possibly do it #hesnotabastard'.
An Armagh statement last night said: "The chanting of 'God Save the Queen' and malign taunting of 'British B*****d' has no place either on or off the field of play but might have now if it turns out that Ciaran did actually possess a British passport. This could have been provocation in the extreme and at variance with Rule 1.2 that 'the Association is a national organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the national identity in a 32-county Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes. This partitionist mindset is contrary to the preamble in the Treori (Rules). Now, there is the possibility that the Laois defender was trying to make Ciaran feel welcome in an all-inclusive society and we applaud that. After all, the Queen did speak a bit of Irish. But we're not giving up on the bastard bit"
Armagh officials have already indicated that they will vigorously defend McKeever, who was banned for one match earlier in the league for his part in the altercation between Armagh and Cork players on the opening weekend of action. "That time he was called an 'awful gaunch' which we deemed an acceptable level of abuse and almost adorable."
Laois chairman Brian Allen revealed last night that his County Board had conducted an investigation into incidents that took place during the interval in Sunday's game and found no evidence of any racial abuse directed by any of their players but one or two might have used the word 'bollocks' or 'shitehead'.
"We have looked into and we have no evidence to say whether it happened or not," he said. "But if it did sure wasn't it great to see a young lad with a foreign passport playing the games and equally delightful that one of our players had gone to the trouble of Googling their anthem and learning it. The bastard bit is harder to defend but sure isn't he a bit of an eejit or at least that's what i'm told. It was jest I'd imagine".
www.laoisqueenscounty.ie
This situation has me conflicted. My first reaction when I read the county board statement was 'go and wise up'. But then I thought this problem has to be highlighted at some stage. I can honestly say that I hate sledging more as each year passes. I remember Stevie McDonnell getting sent of against Monaghan a few years ago and him saying how much abuse he was getting from Mone and he just lost it. He gets sent off and Mone wins. But in my heart I believe a good thump is what Mone deserved. But that is not what my head says. In all honesty why should anyone take abuse like that. I was at a school meeting on internet safety and cyber bullying tonight and the point was made that one persons slag is another's insult. How can we teach our children that bullying - and in simple terms this is what is alleged- is wrong and yet not have the conviction to stand up to it ourselves in a simple thing like a football match. Although I think the timing and approach by the county board is misjudged maybe in the long term it may benefit the association as a whole.
As for the specifics of the incident I would be surprised if McKeever asked the CB to issue such a statement. I also doubt if it was issued to give a reasons for his actions. He still claims he did nothing wrong. As others have said it may be that Grimley was banned for 12 weeks for his language to the referee and yet the abuse the CB believed took place against Armagh players warranted no sanction. Maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back?
The whole thing may be quite simple. The Laois player gave verbals to try and put McKeever off. McKeever told referee who warned the player and no more. McKeever got a few hefty fouls committed on him as the half drew to a close and he was bit frustrated. As they was going down the tunnel he got more verbals. He gave a bit of a hit back but nothing he considered more than handbags. An official saw this reported it to the referee. As most things like this could be considered a strike, although minor in nature, he was sent off. The bully won.
On another note if this abuse is proved it does put McNulty in a difficult position.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 04:48:53 PM
Also I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue. Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement. Ciaran McKeever was not abused because of any of these issues. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. These comments were not this either. They do amounty to a form of xenophbia but this is not a crime nor associated to a crime. Throwing these comments out like this willy nilly are dangerous and unhelpful to people who really are suffering racist or sectarian abuse.
Absolutely spot on. Crossmaglen a class act as always. Armagh should just let 'the fightin men' run the county.
QuoteAlso I think it is very irresponsible to be bandying words like Sectarian or racist about in respect of what was said here. These are 2 very serious issues and the misuse of the words dilutes what is the real issue.
I see your point BCB. The problem is that that there is a lack of terminology to describe this situation and the use of other terminology can lead to accusations of MOPEry. I think this is dangerous, because while this problem may not be as severe as other issues it is still of the same character. The object of this abuse is to imply that the other person is less of a person, in this case less of an Irish person, than other people. I wouldn't take any heed of talk of Nordies or Freestaters and the very nature of the GAA is to identify a persons geographic location (see below). I might think that someone posting here was a Down bollix, I may even think that someone is talking nonsense and I it is OK to say these things. But I cannot say that someone is less entitled to be an Irish man than me and without making a mountain out of molehill we need to make clear that nobody in the GAA can say this.
QuoteAbsolutely spot on. Crossmaglen a class act as always. Armagh should just let 'the fightin men' run the county.
I think you mean the dealin' men, the fighting men are from Cullyhanna.
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Now we're getting into the intellectual stuff with Parkie on board . . . I would imagine the situation would have been worse had he been involved!!
O'Neill you have outdone yourself again! ;D
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 12:09:53 PM
O'Neill you have outdone yourself again! ;D
+1 #hesnotabastard :)
Quote from: Throw ball on March 22, 2012, 01:23:11 AM
This situation has me conflicted. My first reaction when I read the county board statement was 'go and wise up'. But then I thought this problem has to be highlighted at some stage. I can honestly say that I hate sledging more as each year passes. I remember Stevie McDonnell getting sent of against Monaghan a few years ago and him saying how much abuse he was getting from Mone and he just lost it. He gets sent off and Mone wins. But in my heart I believe a good thump is what Mone deserved. But that is not what my head says. In all honesty why should anyone take abuse like that. I was at a school meeting on internet safety and cyber bullying tonight and the point was made that one persons slag is another's insult. How can we teach our children that bullying - and in simple terms this is what is alleged- is wrong and yet not have the conviction to stand up to it ourselves in a simple thing like a football match. Although I think the timing and approach by the county board is misjudged maybe in the long term it may benefit the association as a whole.
As for the specifics of the incident I would be surprised if McKeever asked the CB to issue such a statement. I also doubt if it was issued to give a reasons for his actions. He still claims he did nothing wrong. As others have said it may be that Grimley was banned for 12 weeks for his language to the referee and yet the abuse the CB believed took place against Armagh players warranted no sanction. Maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back?
The whole thing may be quite simple. The Laois player gave verbals to try and put McKeever off. McKeever told referee who warned the player and no more. McKeever got a few hefty fouls committed on him as the half drew to a close and he was bit frustrated. As they was going down the tunnel he got more verbals. He gave a bit of a hit back but nothing he considered more than handbags. An official saw this reported it to the referee. As most things like this could be considered a strike, although minor in nature, he was sent off. The bully won.
On another note if this abuse is proved it does put McNulty in a difficult position.
McKeever bullied? Come on, get real. Don't attempt to dramatise the issue.
Even the most biased of Armagh men would acknowledge that McKeever would have engaged in plenty of verbals and digs himself. I'm sure he isn't overly happy at the damage this is doing to his image. I don't believe for one minute that McKeever was the one that reported it. I'd be fairly sure it was county board officials who reported it to limit any suspensions and form the basis of an appeal. If I was McKeever I would be ripping with the co board for making him appear like a tell tale. At the very least this statement should have been made behind closed doors but failing that, the reference to 'racism and secterianism' were severely ill advised.
'Racism storm puts GAA in a quandary'
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-puts-gaa-in-a-quandary-3058010.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-puts-gaa-in-a-quandary-3058010.html)
I'd like to thank our Northern chums for generating another great headline promoting our games in the national media.
Keep them coming lads.
Our pleasure Jinxy :D
Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2012, 12:46:38 PM
'Racism storm puts GAA in a quandary'
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-puts-gaa-in-a-quandary-3058010.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-puts-gaa-in-a-quandary-3058010.html)
I'd like to thank our Northern chums for generating another great headline promoting our games in the national media.
Keep them coming lads.
I know. You wouldn't credit it, would you? At least Graham Geraghty did justice to the headline....
Quote from: yellowcard on March 22, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on March 22, 2012, 01:23:11 AM
This situation has me conflicted. My first reaction when I read the county board statement was 'go and wise up'. But then I thought this problem has to be highlighted at some stage. I can honestly say that I hate sledging more as each year passes. I remember Stevie McDonnell getting sent of against Monaghan a few years ago and him saying how much abuse he was getting from Mone and he just lost it. He gets sent off and Mone wins. But in my heart I believe a good thump is what Mone deserved. But that is not what my head says. In all honesty why should anyone take abuse like that. I was at a school meeting on internet safety and cyber bullying tonight and the point was made that one persons slag is another's insult. How can we teach our children that bullying - and in simple terms this is what is alleged- is wrong and yet not have the conviction to stand up to it ourselves in a simple thing like a football match. Although I think the timing and approach by the county board is misjudged maybe in the long term it may benefit the association as a whole.
As for the specifics of the incident I would be surprised if McKeever asked the CB to issue such a statement. I also doubt if it was issued to give a reasons for his actions. He still claims he did nothing wrong. As others have said it may be that Grimley was banned for 12 weeks for his language to the referee and yet the abuse the CB believed took place against Armagh players warranted no sanction. Maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back?
The whole thing may be quite simple. The Laois player gave verbals to try and put McKeever off. McKeever told referee who warned the player and no more. McKeever got a few hefty fouls committed on him as the half drew to a close and he was bit frustrated. As they was going down the tunnel he got more verbals. He gave a bit of a hit back but nothing he considered more than handbags. An official saw this reported it to the referee. As most things like this could be considered a strike, although minor in nature, he was sent off. The bully won.
On another note if this abuse is proved it does put McNulty in a difficult position.
McKeever bullied? Come on, get real. Don't attempt to dramatise the issue.
Even the most biased of Armagh men would acknowledge that McKeever would have engaged in plenty of verbals and digs himself. I'm sure he isn't overly happy at the damage this is doing to his image. I don't believe for one minute that McKeever was the one that reported it. I'd be fairly sure it was county board officials who reported it to limit any suspensions and form the basis of an appeal. If I was McKeever I would be ripping with the co board for making him appear like a tell tale. At the very least this statement should have been made behind closed doors but failing that, the reference to 'racism and secterianism' were severely ill advised.
I think you missed my point completely. McKeever undoubedly can stand up for himself but at some stage it could be a young fella who is not quite as secure. I would rather something is done now to try and stop this than someone regret that nothing was done down the line.
Quote from: sheamy on March 22, 2012, 12:52:32 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2012, 12:46:38 PM
'Racism storm puts GAA in a quandary'
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-puts-gaa-in-a-quandary-3058010.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/racism-storm-puts-gaa-in-a-quandary-3058010.html)
I'd like to thank our Northern chums for generating another great headline promoting our games in the national media.
Keep them coming lads.
I know. You wouldn't credit it, would you? At least Graham Geraghty did justice to the headline....
... or if it's true the Laois man/men for making the comments. IF it is true then I think it was more trying to target Mc Keever to make him react but I have come across these types of comments before and I have seen them (tongue in cheek of course) on this board in places. Never crossed my mind to ever bring it up but as GAA men it is a pretty low way of trying to get a player sent off. It's a pretty sensitive subject for a lot of us Nordies and GAA people should remember the history of even just this organisation and think twice before making comments like that ever again.
Quote from: Throw ball on March 22, 2012, 02:02:28 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 22, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on March 22, 2012, 01:23:11 AM
This situation has me conflicted. My first reaction when I read the county board statement was 'go and wise up'. But then I thought this problem has to be highlighted at some stage. I can honestly say that I hate sledging more as each year passes. I remember Stevie McDonnell getting sent of against Monaghan a few years ago and him saying how much abuse he was getting from Mone and he just lost it. He gets sent off and Mone wins. But in my heart I believe a good thump is what Mone deserved. But that is not what my head says. In all honesty why should anyone take abuse like that. I was at a school meeting on internet safety and cyber bullying tonight and the point was made that one persons slag is another's insult. How can we teach our children that bullying - and in simple terms this is what is alleged- is wrong and yet not have the conviction to stand up to it ourselves in a simple thing like a football match. Although I think the timing and approach by the county board is misjudged maybe in the long term it may benefit the association as a whole.
As for the specifics of the incident I would be surprised if McKeever asked the CB to issue such a statement. I also doubt if it was issued to give a reasons for his actions. He still claims he did nothing wrong. As others have said it may be that Grimley was banned for 12 weeks for his language to the referee and yet the abuse the CB believed took place against Armagh players warranted no sanction. Maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back?
The whole thing may be quite simple. The Laois player gave verbals to try and put McKeever off. McKeever told referee who warned the player and no more. McKeever got a few hefty fouls committed on him as the half drew to a close and he was bit frustrated. As they was going down the tunnel he got more verbals. He gave a bit of a hit back but nothing he considered more than handbags. An official saw this reported it to the referee. As most things like this could be considered a strike, although minor in nature, he was sent off. The bully won.
On another note if this abuse is proved it does put McNulty in a difficult position.
McKeever bullied? Come on, get real. Don't attempt to dramatise the issue.
Even the most biased of Armagh men would acknowledge that McKeever would have engaged in plenty of verbals and digs himself. I'm sure he isn't overly happy at the damage this is doing to his image. I don't believe for one minute that McKeever was the one that reported it. I'd be fairly sure it was county board officials who reported it to limit any suspensions and form the basis of an appeal. If I was McKeever I would be ripping with the co board for making him appear like a tell tale. At the very least this statement should have been made behind closed doors but failing that, the reference to 'racism and secterianism' were severely ill advised.
Won't someone please think of the children?
I think you missed my point completely. McKeever undoubedly can stand up for himself but at some stage it could be a young fella who is not quite as secure. I would rather something is done now to try and stop this than someone regret that nothing was done down the line.
Maybe we're all missing the real problem here.
Portlaoise.
Why does it always bring out the worst in people?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Parky calls someone a wannabe hard man. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Parky calls someone a wannabe hard man. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Parky is just a wannabe, no one is sure just yet though what he wannabes ;D
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Parky calls someone a wannabe hard man. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Classy.. wouldn't expect anything less from him
Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2012, 02:20:13 PM
Maybe we're all missing the real problem here.
Portlaoise.
Why does it always bring out the worst in people?
Lads have been trying to escape from Portlaoise for years.
Quote from: ogshead on March 22, 2012, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Parky calls someone a wannabe hard man. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Classy.. wouldn't expect anything less from him
He's 100% right this time though.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 22, 2012, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Parky calls someone a wannabe hard man. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Parky is just a wannabe, no one is sure just yet though what he wannabes ;D
He was a wannabe footballer under Justin McNulty for a while, the weights were too heavy for him though so he went off crying.
On a slightly related issue, i have always found Laois fans to be un-necessarily agressive and abusive at matches. Every Armagh/Laois match i have ever been to has always been a bad atmosphere due to the Laois fans. The worst was when Armagh gutted them in 2005 in Croke Park. Laois were never going to win, the match was never even close, but the Laois fans were extremely wound up. Never quite understood the reason for this.
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2012, 12:33:30 AM
It has emerged today that Armagh captain Ciaran McKeever may actually possess a British passport. Investigative journalist Hamilton Maguire visited McKeever's townland to gauge reaction to the weekend's furore for laoisqueenscounty.ie. Before leaving he was passed information from a Post Office junior clerk saying that the Armagh strong-man may actually have a British passport.
Maguire concluded, "if this allegation is proven to be true, then the matter is closed. The Laois offender was actually stating a fact".
Armagh County Board last night still expressed concern at the "b**tard" part of the supposed abuse and claim it has been directed at their players and has gone unpunished by the GAA for over one hundred years now even from people who are regular communicants.
It comes just 48 hours after their captain Ciaran McKeever was sent off for allegedly kicking a Laois opponent in the tunnel in O'Moore Park, Portlaoise at half-time in Sunday's league defeat. It nows emerges that the kick was wrongly dished out for a simple statement of fact. McKeever faces a two-match ban for the alleged incident, which he has vehemently denied to Armagh officials.
The GAA's Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) acted on referee Michael Duffy's report, which reported McKeever for the alleged kick and also proposed that Armagh assistant manager Paul Grimley should serve a three-month suspension for his angry confrontation with the match official after the game. Grimley has since claimed that if he had known that McKeever maybe possessed a British passport then he wouldn't have been so irksome with the officials as 'b**tard' is something he has even called his brothers as a term of affection.
Duffy had red carded McKeever just before the second half restarted when the teams came back out on to the field. McKeever initially refused to leave the field, adamant he had done nothing wrong. The Post Office clerk said that the British passport was needed because the McKeevers had booked a holiday to Honolulu at Christmas and the Irish one would take a lot longer to process. He also claims that he's not even sure if it was Ciaran himself who signed the passport because all the brothers had 'that big McKeever head on them'.
The CB claimed that "alleged racist and personal abuse directed at our players is apparently going unpunished" and is contrary to GAA rule. Now they have changed their plea and are frantically searching the rule-book to see if there's any mention of unmarried parent abuse. If so, their assistant secretary claimed on twitter that 'we'll take these cnuts (sic) as far as we can possibly do it #hesnotabastard'.
An Armagh statement last night said: "The chanting of 'God Save the Queen' and malign taunting of 'British B*****d' has no place either on or off the field of play but might have now if it turns out that Ciaran did actually possess a British passport. This could have been provocation in the extreme and at variance with Rule 1.2 that 'the Association is a national organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the national identity in a 32-county Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes. This partitionist mindset is contrary to the preamble in the Treori (Rules). Now, there is the possibility that the Laois defender was trying to make Ciaran feel welcome in an all-inclusive society and we applaud that. After all, the Queen did speak a bit of Irish. But we're not giving up on the b**tard bit"
Armagh officials have already indicated that they will vigorously defend McKeever, who was banned for one match earlier in the league for his part in the altercation between Armagh and Cork players on the opening weekend of action. "That time he was called an 'awful gaunch' which we deemed an acceptable level of abuse and almost adorable."
Laois chairman Brian Allen revealed last night that his County Board had conducted an investigation into incidents that took place during the interval in Sunday's game and found no evidence of any racial abuse directed by any of their players but one or two might have used the word 'bollocks' or 'shitehead'.
"We have looked into and we have no evidence to say whether it happened or not," he said. "But if it did sure wasn't it great to see a young lad with a foreign passport playing the games and equally delightful that one of our players had gone to the trouble of Googling their anthem and learning it. The b**tard bit is harder to defend but sure isn't he a bit of an eejit or at least that's what i'm told. It was jest I'd imagine".
www.laoisqueenscounty.ie
Good man ONeill! :)
Quote from: Feckitt on March 22, 2012, 02:55:58 PM
On a slightly related issue, i have always found Laois fans to be un-necessarily agressive and abusive at matches. Every Armagh/Laois match i have ever been to has always been a bad atmosphere due to the Laois fans. The worst was when Armagh gutted them in 2005 in Croke Park. Laois were never going to win, the match was never even close, but the Laois fans were extremely wound up. Never quite understood the reason for this.
;D Were you at the match last Sunday? The stewards weren't surrounding the ref to protect him from Laois fans.
Although I have to admit there wasn't many Laois fans there.
QuoteThe worst was when Armagh gutted them in 2005 in Croke Park. Laois were never going to win, the match was never even close, but the Laois fans were extremely wound up. Never quite understood the reason for this.
This was my experience also. Laois and Armagh had no particular history or rivalry, yet there was some terrible abuse about nothing in particular.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2012, 03:09:56 PM
QuoteThe worst was when Armagh gutted them in 2005 in Croke Park. Laois were never going to win, the match was never even close, but the Laois fans were extremely wound up. Never quite understood the reason for this.
This was my experience also. Laois and Armagh had no particular history or rivalry, yet there was some terrible abuse about nothing in particular.
We've always had a small support but it had a huge increase during the Micko years. A lot of the bandwagon jumpers hadn't a clue about anything.
We're back to regular numbers these last few years, in a way I'm glad of it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 22, 2012, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
@Woolberto has joined the fray on Twitter...
"The more I hear about this McKeever thing the bigger weasel he is, and the Armagh county board are even worse"
To add to this from yesterday...
" Don't know why the Laois player would sink to those levels, I could think of 100 insults for that wannabe hard man clown McKeever"
Parky calls someone a wannabe hard man. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Parky is just a wannabe, no one is sure just yet though what he wannabes ;D
He was a wannabe footballer under Justin McNulty for a while, the weights were too heavy for him though so he went off crying.
Who is Parky?
Colm 'Wooly' Parkinson. Goes by the name Woolberto or something on twitter. He's an ex Laois footballer. Gets his kicks by looking for attention on twitter or newstalk these days.
Kevin Cassidy was saying in the book which led him in hot water, that Billy Sheehan of Laois called Micheal Murphy something very similar to what was directed at Mckeever.. He isn't obviously good at geography as Donegal isn't part of the six counties. Joe Kernan said the same thing in his own autbiography of being called a british so and so in Laois. They like to bring up the subject in laois for some reason. its not like a box was thrown or anything like that but there is no need for stupidity like that. 32 counties are all irish.
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 22, 2012, 03:39:33 PM
Kevin Cassidy was saying in the book which led him in hot water, that Billy Sheehan of Laois called Micheal Murphy something very similar to what was directed at Mckeever.. He isn't obviously good at geography as Donegal isn't part of the six counties...
Well, he is from Kerry yet he plays his football for Laois -- someone should tell him it's not even the same province! ;)
Billy Sheehan seems to say this type of thing so often that he probably uses it on everyone.
Even teams from the free state.
I wasn't at the Tyrone v Laois match back in 2006 when we lost in Portlaoise but I heard it was a rather distasteful affair. If any of ye on here were at that game I'd like to hear a summary of it
As AI champs you don't expect to get an easy ride but I believe there were similar antics that day and Mr Sheehan played a particular gamesmanship role.
I suppose it must be a bit awkward for McNulty (and I suppose McGeeney too) to be playing against their old team and knowing their strengths and weaknesses.
To me most Southern teams feel the Ulster teams play a certain way and are much more focused on negative tactics rather than playing nice open football. I suppose we in Tyrone would agree with that in a way by our attitude when we get knocked out of Ulster and then feel we can play other teams that are less into "stopping the man".
Back in the 90's it was a breath of fresh air for most counities to see the Ulster teams come through and win their first AI. Then in 2002 & 2003 there was similar feeling for Armagh and Tyrone, even if in many Southerners eyes we were a lot more defensively minded and especially Armagh would have been considered much more physical and grind out results.
So as with some Southern counties, they soon became fed up with the good will to the Ulster teams and for a few years it was Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh were considered the "big three".
Ulster Football was considered ugly and overly aggressive and generally frowned upon.
To me Donegal brought that to a whole new level last year but the Dubs accepted that if you wanna win you gotta fight fire with fire. In a similar way Tyrone had to do something similar back in 2003 as we changed our style a lot.
Therefore in my biased eyes, most Southerners now see Ulster teams as tough to beat and you gotta beat them at their own game. They won't let you go out and play your normal game as they put a lot of emphasis on stopping your style. I think that because of that we are quite despised now and so the whole Feck off back to the UK attitude is really prevalent now.
Whilst I do think it needs to be addressed I think Armagh were silly to choose this time to bring it up. I think they do need to clear up with the refs though that such sledging is a bookable offence and not just let it go.
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 22, 2012, 03:39:33 PM
Kevin Cassidy was saying in the book which led him in hot water, that Billy Sheehan of Laois called Micheal Murphy something very similar to what was directed at Mckeever.. He isn't obviously good at geography as Donegal isn't part of the six counties. Joe Kernan said the same thing in his own autbiography of being called a british so and so in Laois. They like to bring up the subject in laois for some reason. its not like a box was thrown or anything like that but there is no need for stupidity like that. 32 counties are all irish.
It looks bad for Laois that's for sure but two of the allegations were against the one player who is not from Laois.
Our names been dragged through the mud over this, it's all over the papers and the radio. If something was said I hope the person comes out and admits it and he is disciplined, on the other hand if this has all been made up to try and avoid suspensions well.............................
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 22, 2012, 04:06:01 PM
I wasn't at the Tyrone v Laois match back in 2006 when we lost in Portlaoise but I heard it was a rather distasteful affair. If any of ye on here were at that game I'd like to hear a summary of it
As AI champs you don't expect to get an easy ride but I believe there were similar antics that day and Mr Sheehan played a particular gamesmanship role.
We were destroyed by Dublin in the Leinster final the week before. It was a wet and windy evening in Portlaoise and only the hardcore support showed up, the bandwagon jumpers stayed away.
After been embarrased the week before we were dreading playing the All-Ireland champions but the players put pride back in the jersey, it was probably our greatest win under Micko.
The win was tainted however when we saw highlights and Billy screaming into one of the Tyrone players faces with his tongue hanging out. He was man of the match that day but he lost a lot of respect with his behaviour.
I don't think it has been made up and I find that type of thing distasteful. Sledging seems to be creeping in to Club games as well, as I've said previously I didn't encounter it in my day. That said I'm not sure the way our County Board has approached it is necessarily correct. I don't think McKeever would have wanted it highlighted in this way. Raising it directly with the CCC in private may have been better. Grimly should have known better than to have a go at the Ref after the game, whatever the provocation it is only right that the GAA protect Refs from that type of abuse. Tony Mac's reaction to the Rory Hickey performance was exactly the way to handle it.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 22, 2012, 04:20:59 PM
I don't think it has been made up and I find that type of thing distasteful. Sledging seems to be creeping in to Club games as well, as I've said previously I didn't encounter it in my day. That said I'm not sure the way our County Board has approached it is necessarily correct. I don't think McKeever would have wanted it highlighted in this way. Raising it directly with the CCC in private may have been better. Grimly should have known better than to have a go at the Ref after the game, whatever the provocation it is only right that the GAA protect Refs from that type of abuse. Tony Mac's reaction to the Rory Hickey performance was exactly the way to handle it.
First it was said that McKeever did nothing to get sent off, then it was said that he retaliated to provocation from a Laois player, then it wasn't a Laois player but an official. They need to get their story straight.
When I heard the story first and the names involved I believed it but I'm doubting it now.
The linesman was near enough to see the incident so I'm sure he would have heard what was said. We need to hear from him to confirm or deny this allegation.
McKeever has consistently stated he did nothing. The CB made the accusations of abuse. Could well have more to do with Grimly's 12 weeks than McKeever's ban. As I said perhaps not the best way to have dealt with it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 04:16:59 PMThe win was tainted however when we saw highlights and Billy screaming into one of the Tyrone players faces with his tongue hanging out. He was man of the match that day but he lost a lot of respect with his behaviour.
(http://i.imgur.com/PceTR.gif)
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 22, 2012, 04:41:18 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 04:16:59 PMThe win was tainted however when we saw highlights and Billy screaming into one of the Tyrone players faces with his tongue hanging out. He was man of the match that day but he lost a lot of respect with his behaviour.
(http://i.imgur.com/PceTR.gif)
that has to be a photoshop. no way could any man get his head that low, never mind the length of his left arm........
Are you a physio?
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=164866
Quote from: heffo on March 22, 2012, 05:43:17 PM
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=164866
Tail between their f**king legs, the county is a laughing stock and the current committees' positions are surely untenable.
Quote from: heffo on March 22, 2012, 05:43:17 PM
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=164866
Bunch of idiots. >:(
Croke Park call all the shots boys. End of.
Joint Statement by Armagh and Laois County Boards
22 March 2012
The statement reads:
"A meeting of representatives of Armagh and Laois County Boards took place today to discuss last Sunday's Allianz League Football game in O'Moore Park, Portlaoise.
It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park.
It is acknowledged by both Boards that inappropriate verbal exchanges took place between players during the game and this will be addressed with our respective panels.
Both Laois and Armagh are committed to the playing of our games in the best possible spirit and look forward to the continuation of a keen, sporting rivalry."
========================================================================================
I don't think this is a case of Croke Park calling the shots. The Armagh County Board's original statement generated a lot of negative and erroneous reporting and comment. The above statement puts the record straight.
I was at the match last Sunday supporting Laois and was amazed to read in the papers this week of the abuse that Laois supporters had thrown at the Armagh players - these stories were total nonsense.
what is the odds on laois against armagh in the back door ::)
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 03:28:11 PM
Colm 'Wooly' Parkinson. Goes by the name Woolberto or something on twitter. He's an ex Laois footballer. Gets his kicks by looking for attention on twitter or newstalk these days.
I recall a conversation with a member of the Tyrone team in 2003 who told me that this kind of dialogue took place prior to Horse Devlin falling over Parkinson.
Quotewhat is the odds on laois against armagh in the back door
If it is a home game we could play it in Cullyhanna.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 22, 2012, 05:53:57 PM
Croke Park call all the shots boys. End of.
Correct, knuckles have been wrapped and horns pulled in. A bit of good old fashioned FF style behind closed doors cronyism to sort it.
Still wonder will grimley get off with 4 weeks
Just when you thought it couldn't get more embarrassing.
"It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park."
So they made it up? I'd be embarrassed if I was from Armagh.
I believed it and was ashamed of our player. Knowing now that it was made up, it's unbelievable, why would they do it? He has a job to go to, I'm not his biggest fan but to sully his name like that is disgraceful.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 07:52:27 PM
"It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park."
So they made it up? I'd be embarrassed if I was from Armagh.
I believed it and was ashamed of our player. Knowing now that it was made up, it's unbelievable, why would they do it? He has a job to go to, I'm not his biggest fan but to sully his name like that is disgraceful.
The Armagh County Board did not name anyone.
Yes, you're right. They never named anyone, in the paper the next day they stated it was "a member of the Laois official party".
This really shouldn't have been takin seriously from the start. I suppose noone thought they'd just invent a story like this.
The GAA have released a statement in relation to allegations made by the Armagh county board following their Allianz Football League game with Laois last weekend.
The statement was released following a meeting of representatives of the Armagh and Laois county boards today.
Laois had rejected insinuations that Armagh's Ciarán McKeever suffered sectarian or racial abuse prior to an alleged incident in the tunnel at half-time in last Sunday's game. McKeever was sent off prior to the start of the second-half by referee Marty Duffy.
The statement reads: "A meeting of representatives of Armagh and Laois County Boards took place today to discuss last Sunday's Allianz League Football game in O'Moore Park, Portlaoise.
"It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park.
"It is acknowledged by both Boards that inappropriate verbal exchanges took place between players during the game and this will be addressed with our respective panels."
"Both Laois and Armagh are committed to the playing of our games in the best possible spirit and look forward to the continuation of a keen, sporting rivalry."
SO WHAT DID HAPPEN ?
"You're only a bollox" = inappropriate verbal exchange.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2012, 09:24:05 PM
"You're only a bollox" = inappropriate verbal exchange.
Sound like it. Embarassing.
Two players were mouthing away to eachother during the game and one player struck the other at half time and was sent off for it.
No member of the Laois official party engaged in sectarian abuse.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Two players were mouthing away to eachother during the game and one player struck the other at half time and was sent off for it.
No member of the Laois official party engaged in sectarian abuse.
one player tripped up another player who was giving him abuse( "struck" is the wrong word here)
did croke park not take both sides aside and tell them to sort it out before it gets too heavy,
there are a lot of grants etc in the north for the gaa and it doesnt want to be perceived as " partitionist" 8)
thats what i think has happened
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Two players were mouthing away to eachother during the game and one player struck the other at half time and was sent off for it.
No member of the Laois official party engaged in sectarian abuse.
Did they engage in abuse that is not now deemed sectarian or racist?
Quote from: naka on March 22, 2012, 09:35:00 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Two players were mouthing away to eachother during the game and one player struck the other at half time and was sent off for it.
No member of the Laois official party engaged in sectarian abuse.
one player tripped up another player who was giving him abuse( "struck" is the wrong word here)
did croke park not take both sides aside and tell them to sort it out before it gets too heavy,
there are a lot of grants etc in the north for the gaa and it doesnt want to be perceived as " partitionist" 8)
thats what i think has happened
"It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park."
So the Armagh CB agreed to release a statement which makes them look like total idiots? They went along with this?
Or could the real reason be that they had no proof for the allegations they made and had to retract them?
Quote from: reddgnhand on March 22, 2012, 09:36:06 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Two players were mouthing away to eachother during the game and one player struck the other at half time and was sent off for it.
No member of the Laois official party engaged in sectarian abuse.
Did they engage in abuse that is not now deemed sectarian or racist?
No, members of the Laois official party were not engaged in any abuse.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:48:24 PM
Quote from: reddgnhand on March 22, 2012, 09:36:06 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Two players were mouthing away to eachother during the game and one player struck the other at half time and was sent off for it.
No member of the Laois official party engaged in sectarian abuse.
Did they engage in abuse that is not now deemed sectarian or racist?
No, members of the Laois official party were not engaged in any abuse.
lets agree to disagree
"inappropraite verbal exchanges" is a lawyers phrase for abuse
this case is about the ref choosing to ignore these " inappropraite verbal exchanges" when he heard them and choosing to send off mc keever for the trip and accuse grimley of intimidating behaviour
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: naka on March 22, 2012, 09:35:00 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Two players were mouthing away to eachother during the game and one player struck the other at half time and was sent off for it.
No member of the Laois official party engaged in sectarian abuse.
one player tripped up another player who was giving him abuse( "struck" is the wrong word here)
did croke park not take both sides aside and tell them to sort it out before it gets too heavy,
there are a lot of grants etc in the north for the gaa and it doesnt want to be perceived as " partitionist" 8)
thats what i think has happened
"It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park."
So the Armagh CB agreed to release a statement which makes them look like total idiots? They went along with this?
Or could the real reason be that they had no proof for the allegations they made and had to retract them?
Which doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course.
Quote from: naka on March 22, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
lets agree to disagree concerning abuse given
players were not willing to give staements a la evra
On the field there's always abuse, if you want to call it that but that's where it should stay.
Nothing much happened down the tunnel.
Tales of Laois fans singing God save the queen, being angry and aggressive at matches, having a history of being sectarian bigots etc. etc that were all over the media in the last few days were caused by the Armagh CB's original statement.
They should have accepted their bans and moved on, it did nothing to help the GAA.
Quote from: onefaircounty on March 22, 2012, 09:55:17 PM
Which doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course.
Yes or they were just making it all up.
All very embarassing from an Armagh point of view.
This sledging goes on all the time on the field and we have all heard abuse based around Northern teams Britishness at matches but if Armagh had won this game or McKeever not been sent off then there would have been no mention of this.
[.
They should have accepted their bans and moved on, it did nothing to help the GAA.
[/quote]
why should they
grimley has already said he will contest his 12 week suspension and in my view he is right, mc keever has kept his counsel in this matter to his credit
as i said i will leave it as this and we can agree to disagree
Right lads, shake hands and pretend nothing happened. Otherwise Laois you'll get Paudi Hughes for your championship match and Armagh you'll get Mr Duffy Again.
No harm but for the Armagh County board to come out with such a strong statement was premature and foolish unless they were willing to stand by their convictions no matter what pressure was put on them, but now they look weak, pathetic sore losers.
If I was McKeever I'd be well pissed off at his CB. First they state that he was called this and that and then they say well in reflection it wasn't that bad. They should never have named him directly and ran to the press leaving him out to dry.
All that happened in the tunnel was a bit of pushing. I know in the past he may have escaped the odd deserved yellow or red but not this time. If McKeever had hit or kicked out he would have got a hell of a lot more than the minimum sentence. They would have gladly thrown the book at him.
The Armagh CB have made a complete mess of this matter which still needs to be stamped out. They should have raised the issue at the CCC meeting and possibly brought a proposal on sledging and player respect forward at the annual congress. Maybe the GPA could for once do something positive and put pressure on its members to cut out the verbal abuse dished out or we could wait for the powers at HQ to get off their asses and sort it out.
Quote from: naka on March 22, 2012, 10:14:28 PM
why should they
grimley has already said he will contest his 12 week suspension and in my view he is right, mc keever has kept his counsel in this matter to his credit
as i said i will leave it as this and we can agree to disagree
Ok, well they can contest their bans but going to the press with this story was never going to help.
I can't see how you think Grimley is right, his behaviour wasn't great afterwards but yes we can agree to disagree on that.
Let's hope everyone just moves on and forgets all about this, not good for anyone in the GAA.
Quote from: splintered arse on March 22, 2012, 10:18:07 PM
Right lads, shake hands and pretend nothing happened. Otherwise Laois you'll get Paudi Hughes for your championship match and Armagh you'll get Mr Duffy Again.
No harm but for the Armagh County board to come out with such a strong statement was premature and foolish unless they were willing to stand by their convictions no matter what pressure was put on them, but now they look weak, pathetic sore losers.
If I was McKeever I'd be well pissed off at his CB. First they state that he was called this and that and then they say well in reflection it wasn't that bad. They should never have named him directly and ran to the press leaving him out to dry.
All that happened in the tunnel was a bit of pushing. I know in the past he may have escaped the odd deserved yellow or red but not this time. If McKeever had hit or kicked out he would have got a hell of a lot more than the minimum sentence. They would have gladly thrown the book at him.
The Armagh CB have made a complete mess of this matter which still needs to be stamped out. They should have raised the issue at the CCC meeting and possibly brought a proposal on sledging and player respect forward at the annual congress. Maybe the GPA could for once do something positive and put pressure on its members to cut out the verbal abuse dished out or we could wait for the powers at HQ to get off their asses and sort it out.
I agree, sledging or whatever you want to call it has no place in the GAA, we all want it stamped out. Hate when I see our players do it.
Running to the papers wont get rid of it though.
I've said this before, I can see why Armagh people are aggrieved with the match and suspensions accruing from it but their county board have lost them a lot of sympathy.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 10:26:14 PM
Quote from: splintered arse on March 22, 2012, 10:18:07 PM
Right lads, shake hands and pretend nothing happened. Otherwise Laois you'll get Paudi Hughes for your championship match and Armagh you'll get Mr Duffy Again.
No harm but for the Armagh County board to come out with such a strong statement was premature and foolish unless they were willing to stand by their convictions no matter what pressure was put on them, but now they look weak, pathetic sore losers.
If I was McKeever I'd be well pissed off at his CB. First they state that he was called this and that and then they say well in reflection it wasn't that bad. They should never have named him directly and ran to the press leaving him out to dry.
All that happened in the tunnel was a bit of pushing. I know in the past he may have escaped the odd deserved yellow or red but not this time. If McKeever had hit or kicked out he would have got a hell of a lot more than the minimum sentence. They would have gladly thrown the book at him.
The Armagh CB have made a complete mess of this matter which still needs to be stamped out. They should have raised the issue at the CCC meeting and possibly brought a proposal on sledging and player respect forward at the annual congress. Maybe the GPA could for once do something positive and put pressure on its members to cut out the verbal abuse dished out or we could wait for the powers at HQ to get off their asses and sort it out.
I agree, sledging or whatever you want to call it has no place in the GAA, we all want it stamped out. Hate when I see our players do it.
Running to the papers wont get rid of it though.
I've said this before, I can see why Armagh people are aggrieved with the match and suspensions accruing from it but their county board have lost them a lot of sympathy.
Lads have been winding each other up in sport since the year dot.
People would want to harden the f*ck up as the aussies would say.
What an utterly shambolic mess. I couldn't believe the Press Release when I saw it on Tuesday and the intervening two days have been a complete circus masterminded by the clowns who dreamt up this farce. None of us know exactly what was said or done in the tunnel but those who allowed what was a fairly run-of-the-mill incident, capable of being dealt with through the usual avenues, to descend into the pathetic shambles we've been subjected to over the last couple of days should be ashamed of themselves.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17479438
We're Anzhi.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2012, 11:11:43 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 10:26:14 PM
Quote from: splintered arse on March 22, 2012, 10:18:07 PM
Right lads, shake hands and pretend nothing happened. Otherwise Laois you'll get Paudi Hughes for your championship match and Armagh you'll get Mr Duffy Again.
No harm but for the Armagh County board to come out with such a strong statement was premature and foolish unless they were willing to stand by their convictions no matter what pressure was put on them, but now they look weak, pathetic sore losers.
If I was McKeever I'd be well pissed off at his CB. First they state that he was called this and that and then they say well in reflection it wasn't that bad. They should never have named him directly and ran to the press leaving him out to dry.
All that happened in the tunnel was a bit of pushing. I know in the past he may have escaped the odd deserved yellow or red but not this time. If McKeever had hit or kicked out he would have got a hell of a lot more than the minimum sentence. They would have gladly thrown the book at him.
The Armagh CB have made a complete mess of this matter which still needs to be stamped out. They should have raised the issue at the CCC meeting and possibly brought a proposal on sledging and player respect forward at the annual congress. Maybe the GPA could for once do something positive and put pressure on its members to cut out the verbal abuse dished out or we could wait for the powers at HQ to get off their asses and sort it out.
I agree, sledging or whatever you want to call it has no place in the GAA, we all want it stamped out. Hate when I see our players do it.
Running to the papers wont get rid of it though.
I've said this before, I can see why Armagh people are aggrieved with the match and suspensions accruing from it but their county board have lost them a lot of sympathy.
Lads have been winding each other up in sport since the year dot.
People would want to harden the f*ck up as the aussies would say.
The only team with an unblemished record as regards sledging is Kilkenny footballers.
(http://sharetv.org/images/north_and_south-show.jpg)
Somewhere along the line this will raise its head again. I am suspicious about the whole statement. On Tuesday the Star reported that Armagh were claiming sectarian abuse then later that day Armagh release a statement. Today the same paper reports that following discussions with Croke Park the Armagh chairman has to be persuaded not to resign. Later that day a statement is released which is at odds with the first statement. Now the Armagh chairman is a highly respected and honourable man. Did he wish to resign because Croke Park were putting pressure on Armagh to retract a statement which he believed was true and fair or did he want to resign because he did not know of the initial statement before it was released and did not approve. Too many questions remain unanswered.
The Armagh statement to the press was one of the most bizzare and outlandish ever issued by any county committee of the GAA in my memory. It was so far over the top I can only assume that the wrong sort of diesel was in use. It was also the wrong forum...
Surely if this was more than the usual (but regrettable) verbals that goes on then the Armagh board should have interviewed each player, compiled a report and gone to HQ with it - they could at the same time have questioned Ciaran McKeever closely on what (if anything) happened in the tunnel - and any of his colleagues who could throw light on it; there is no evidence that they tried to do any of this properly and it is hard to have any sympathy or respect for them after the ill-advised public tantrum.
Now there is a pitiful climbdown and it all smacks of a sourness in the Orchard of sulking child proportions and toys out of the pram.
I suspect some of these officers should be looking at their position as this has done a disservice to Armagh GAA.
County board aside. I have a feeling Grimley might not stick the pressure. Aside from that, the county board should be suspended from saying anything again.
looking in from the outside Armagh seems to be in a bit of a mess? correct or incorrect?
I suspect that the statement issued to the press was done so without the County Executive's sanction and most likely at the behest of the team management or an element in it. It raises the question of accountability of paid county officials not only in Armagh but in other counties. We have seen examples of this in Cork and Tyrone in the past. I suspect also that Armagh were told in no uncertain terms by the GAA centrally that they would have to agree to play this issue down. Some of the reporting on the issue and accusations attributed to Armagh both here and in the press do not accurately reflect the ACB's statement. The retraction as such is open to interpretation and does not actually withdraw but in fact accepts that there were inappropriate verbal excahanges. It remains the case that the ACB or the County Secretary took the wrong option in dealing with this. Gregory Campbell must be laughing in his cornflakes. I do think that Ciaran McKeever who at all stages has remained silent is to be commended. If I was a betting man, knowing the history of the alleged perp in this case I would say in the words of the CCC it is more likely to have happened than not. In all of this we again need to focus on the abdication of his responsibilities by the official who chose McKeever as the easy option.
Theres no doubt thisa whole things was handled incorrectly by the county board and the higher authority. I agree with BC the use of certain words was an over the top reaction and the incident was neither sectarian or racially motivated. It was merely Sheehan trying to be a political smart ass. As many lads have stated Sheehan is not on his own with these beliefs and comments.
The one thing that i find unnacceptable is, whatever you think of Mc Keever as a footballer or a person he shouldn't have to be subjected to this tyrant of abuse by anyone. People are using the old tongue and cheek one "what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch" this is not the case anymore because what Sheehan said was very offensive both in terms of teh background which Mc keever has had (ie brought up in a very troubled area regarding politics) and secondly because Sheehan was actually questioning his identity. This is a man who trains for his club and county and dedicates his time to the cause of the GAA and buys into the ethos of the GAA which is inclusive of a 32 county Ireland. No player that volunteers his time should be subjected to that abuse by another player and certainly offcials shouldn't be permitting it to happen.
For those posters who say the anti northern sentiments don't exist then they clearly are living with their heads buried in the sand. I will also acknowledge there are sentiments from the Northern end where some folk believe themselves to be more Irish because they are in their eyes still fighting the war that the Freestaters started. These points only distract from the fact that this incident shouldn't have happened and should be dealt with
Well said winsamsoon
I agree a lot with that and I'd say if nothing else its given Sheehan a good slap on the face and he'll get slated now by any Ulster teams he meets now.
I haven't read all the pages in the last few days but are we still mainly saying that McKeever didn't strike out or do anything wrong?
Can't believe I am saying this now but I kinda feel sorry for McKeever now that he'll get a hard time now as well from Southern teams. I'd say he's glad not to be playing v the Dubs this weekend.
I wonder will they give Donegal some colourful songs. ;D
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 23, 2012, 11:37:52 AM
Well said winsamsoon
I agree a lot with that and I'd say if nothing else its given Sheehan a good slap on the face and he'll get slated now by any Ulster teams he meets now.
I haven't read all the pages in the last few days but are we still mainly saying that McKeever didn't strike out or do anything wrong?
Can't believe I am saying this now but I kinda feel sorry for McKeever now that he'll get a hard time now as well from Southern teams. I'd say he's glad not to be playing v the Dubs this weekend.
I wonder will they give Donegal some colourful songs. ;D
Why?
Another headline in the Independent today containing the words 'racist abuse'.
Sean Óg o hAilpín saying the GAA needs to take action to deal with this type of thing even though he never got any racist abuse while playing for Cork.
Seriously some county boards should get written permission from Croke park before opening their stupid gobs.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 23, 2012, 12:41:45 PM
Another headline in the Independent today containing the words 'racist abuse'.
Sean Óg o hAilpín saying the GAA needs to take action to deal with this type of thing even though he never got any racist abuse while playing for Cork.
Seriously some county boards should get written permission from Croke park before opening their stupid gobs.
Stop this sort of thing that doesn't happen??
Winsamsoon and Fuzzman, the allegation was withdrawn. There's no proof that anything was said. Looks like the mud will stick however.
I'm not satisfied with the conclusion of this, either sectarian abuse occurred or not. If it did then the Laois player or whoever should get a ban, if not then Armagh should be forced to apologise and whoever made up the story should get an extra ban.
You say Fuzzman "it's given Sheehan a good slap on the face and he'll get slated now by any Ulster teams he meets now." His name has been dragged through the mud and so has the name of Laois GAA and as we see from your statement people believe it to be true even though Armagh have confirmed their allegations were not accurate.
Quote from: AQMP on March 23, 2012, 01:15:07 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 23, 2012, 12:41:45 PM
Another headline in the Independent today containing the words 'racist abuse'.
Sean Óg o hAilpín saying the GAA needs to take action to deal with this type of thing even though he never got any racist abuse while playing for Cork.
Seriously some county boards should get written permission from Croke park before opening their stupid gobs.
Stop this sort of thing that doesn't happen??
So, because Sean Og never got any racist abuse about being from fermanagh or whatever ( :P), he shouldnt be commenting on what way the GAA deal with racist abuse?
The indo is an utter rag. Rarely read it, but saw it yest and they were beating the GAA and the Armagh co board with angles and spin all over the place. looked to me like they invented a story about the armagh chairman (or secreatary or something) having resigned, just so he was utterly discredited in the story around it. (Not that he needed much discrediting, but its shocking journalism). Then Breheney coming out with utter bullshit too...Cant wait to see the media in Dublin get exposed a la the london media at the min.
'Dont matter', reading between the lines, it was def said. Cp have got the lads together and started a clean up operation, thats why its been revised, no other reason. Its not sectarian abuse tho, nor racist, thats the bit thats stupid. Thats not to say its not serious abuse and deserves a good ban, just its not in those categories.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 23, 2012, 01:30:35 PM
'Dont matter', reading between the lines, it was def said. Cp have got the lads together and started a clean up operation, thats why its been revised, no other reason. Its not sectarian abuse tho, nor racist, thats the bit thats stupid. Thats not to say its not serious abuse and deserves a good ban, just its not in those categories.
You see that's the problem I have, people are assuming it's fact even though the allegation was withdrawn. "It was agreed that allegations made by Armagh County Board in their statement do not accurately reflect what occurred in O'Moore Park."
I'd welcome a serious ban on a player or official if this abuse actually happened but the way it is now the player in question has been deemed guilty even though no proof has been provided.
I know what you're saying, I dont like the whole no smoke without fire idea, and people tried by media either, but the initial statement said there was racist/sectarian abuse. I'd be confident that the new statement means they have accepted that this didnt happen (i.e. that there wasnt racist or sectarian abuse), not that those things werent said, jsut that they realised they werent in these categories. As soon as those words are mentioned, it becomes a big issue, and a bandwagon for the meeja to hop on, I think CP were seekig to remove that aspect.
Yeah, it's not goin to come out in public now but it will raise it's head when these sides meet again if the same players are involved.
Hopefully lessons have been learnt about how to deal with this kind of issue in future.
You have to understand that reporters in this country look at the Suarez/Evra and Terry/Ferdinand incidents and think to themselves, "Wouldn't it be great if that happened here?"
Controversy makes their job so much easier.
The articles write themselves.
And the GAA goes out of its way to oblige them with nonsense like this current fiasco.
Dont Matter, are you taking the high moral ground here?
IYHO would you say Sheehan is the type of lad to not say anything derogatory to Mr McKeever.
In all honesty, do you think he didn't sledge him at some stage during the match
Would you go as far to see Billy isn't that type of player?
At least I can admit that we in Tyrone have a few players who do that sort of stuff and I've often openly admitted it.
To me (and I wasn't there) it is more than likely that Sheehan was giving as good as he got during the match but then when he came out with the British line then McKeever thought "Ok ya Kerry reject, Ye'll get a slap for that comment later"
Now that's me totally speculating and telling you what I think most likely happened but its complete hearsay.
I think Billy's name has been in the mud a lot before this incident but maybe you're in denial of that too.
Tubberman I think SOME counties will give McKeever a hard time over this now as they know it will rile him up and maybe give them an edge. I'm not saying all counties will but some definitely will.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 22, 2012, 04:16:59 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 22, 2012, 04:06:01 PM
I wasn't at the Tyrone v Laois match back in 2006 when we lost in Portlaoise but I heard it was a rather distasteful affair. If any of ye on here were at that game I'd like to hear a summary of it
As AI champs you don't expect to get an easy ride but I believe there were similar antics that day and Mr Sheehan played a particular gamesmanship role.
We were destroyed by Dublin in the Leinster final the week before. It was a wet and windy evening in Portlaoise and only the hardcore support showed up, the bandwagon jumpers stayed away.
After been embarrased the week before we were dreading playing the All-Ireland champions but the players put pride back in the jersey, it was probably our greatest win under Micko.
The win was tainted however when we saw highlights and Billy screaming into one of the Tyrone players faces with his tongue hanging out. He was man of the match that day but he lost a lot of respect with his behaviour.
Do you not remember this post?
Of course I know what Billy is like and I know for certain both McKeever and Billy had plenty to say to eachother during the match. The problem is only one side ran to the papers.
Wouldn't you think McKeever said something just as offensive if not more offensive than what Billy's been accused of?
I have said on this thread even that I'm not a fan of Billy and I'd prefer if he didn't play for us but he's not a professional, he works with kids, this story has done him no favours.
From the statements released we have to assume the allegations were untrue so if Armagh had nothing to back them up with they should have kept their mouths shut.
Their behavior has been disgraceful.
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2012, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 23, 2012, 11:37:52 AM
Well said winsamsoon
I agree a lot with that and I'd say if nothing else its given Sheehan a good slap on the face and he'll get slated now by any Ulster teams he meets now.
I haven't read all the pages in the last few days but are we still mainly saying that McKeever didn't strike out or do anything wrong?
Can't believe I am saying this now but I kinda feel sorry for McKeever now that he'll get a hard time now as well from Southern teams. I'd say he's glad not to be playing v the Dubs this weekend.
I wonder will they give Donegal some colourful songs. ;D
Why?
Because they know he will react and hey know what buttons to push.
The Armagh Cb were lambasted by HQ in a heated exchange and told to shut up or face the consequences. All swept under the carpet. Good man cooney. no problem here, now walk on, there's nothing to see.
Quote from: splintered arse on March 23, 2012, 04:39:04 PM
The Armagh Cb were lambasted by HQ in a heated exchange and told to shut up or face the consequences. All swept under the carpet. Good man cooney. no problem here, now walk on, there's nothing to see.
I think you have it right there Splinters.
In fairness for me the most disappointing thing to come out of that game last week, was the response of the Armagh players... although they did show some signs of a comeback in the second half.
you would have thought the injustice of it all would have driven them on to victory playing with intensity and getting a few big hits in... and when i say injustice I don't mean the McKeever incident... I mean the general incompetence of the ref giving seemingly every decision to Loais... I applaud the Armagh players and management for restraining themselves and not giving him a good punch!!
Queen's county indeed. That sort of thing should be sorted out on the field, and any county either Ulster or not should let Laois GAA and this Sheehan know how they feel about it given the opportunity. It's one thing to try to get under a man's skin, but there are certain unwritten rules you don't break, and the likes of this easily qualifies. Hope he gets his comeuppance soon and painfully enough to learn the lesson. Even at that, making this official only serves to embarrass the GAA.
Either these allegations are true but after a quick word from HQ the Armagh CB ran away from them like spineless rats and weren't prepared to back their claims up or these claims were untrue and Armagh made them up to aid their appeal against suspensions to their player and selector.
Armagh have no proof, they've backed down, they now claim the partitionist abuse happened in a different match.
Armagh tried to vilify another county for their own gain, they are a disgrace to the GAA.
Or a bit of horse trading has gone on to get it swept under the carpet
Newsflash...
Laois players to wear t shirts in support of Sheehan in the pre game warm up before this weekends game v Kerry.
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 23, 2012, 06:06:40 PM
Or a bit of horse trading has gone on to get it swept under the carpet
Why did they go public with it straight away? Were they really worried with what was said on the pitch? Far worse things have been said in the past if indeed what was claimed happened.
Or was the real reason that a key player and their coach were facing lenghty bans for their inapropriate behavior and they invented this story?
A player with a track record of indiscretions couldn't explain why he was so stupid to go after a player down the tunnel infront of a linesman so he made up the sectarian abuse?
They couldn't stand over their claims so it's only right that everyone takes them as false.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 06:25:37 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 23, 2012, 06:06:40 PM
Or a bit of horse trading has gone on to get it swept under the carpet
Why did they go public with it straight away? Were they really worried with what was said on the pitch? Far worse things have been said in the past if indeed what was claimed happened.
Or was the real reason that a key player and their coach were facing lenghty bans for their inapropriate behavior and they invented this story?
A player with a track record of indiscretions couldn't explain why he was so stupid to go after a player down the tunnel infront of a linesman so he made up the sectarian abuse?
They couldn't stand over their claims so it's only right that everyone takes them as false.
Would you be as kind as to list this track record for those of us not in the loop.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on March 23, 2012, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 06:25:37 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 23, 2012, 06:06:40 PM
Or a bit of horse trading has gone on to get it swept under the carpet
Why did they go public with it straight away? Were they really worried with what was said on the pitch? Far worse things have been said in the past if indeed what was claimed happened.
Or was the real reason that a key player and their coach were facing lenghty bans for their inapropriate behavior and they invented this story?
A player with a track record of indiscretions couldn't explain why he was so stupid to go after a player down the tunnel infront of a linesman so he made up the sectarian abuse?
They couldn't stand over their claims so it's only right that everyone takes them as false.
Would you be as kind as to list this track record for those of us not in the loop.
Proof is not needed to make claims these days don't ya know? The mud will stick.
I don't know exactly how many times he's been sent off but it's twice this year and when Laois played Armagh in 2009 (maybe 2010) he got sent off. After he got sent off he was with the other Armagh subs, a row broke out on the field, he jumped onto the field, punched our smallest player from behind and then scurried back to a safe distance.
I'm not making that up either, one of the most cowardly acts I've ever seen.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 05:54:44 PM
Either these allegations are true but after a quick word from HQ the Armagh CB ran away from them like spineless rats and weren't prepared to back their claims up or these claims were untrue and Armagh made them up to aid their appeal against suspensions to their player and selector.
Armagh have no proof, they've backed down, they now claim the partitionist abuse happened in a different match.
Armagh tried to vilify another county for their own gain, they are a disgrace to the GAA.
You've repeated a variant of this for a few pages now but I'd like to know how the fook are the claims to be backed up with evidence? It's going to be one persons word against another at best, the Ref (and linesmen) are both alleged to have clearly heard what went on and told the concerned Laois player/s to wise up, now the Ref is hardly going to come out now and back up Armagh's positions after the media furore this week is he?
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 02:47:03 PMWouldn't you think McKeever said something just as offensive if not more offensive than what Billy's been accused of?
So are you saying McKeever said something to Sheehan to start this whole thing?
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 06:25:37 PMWhy did they go public with it straight away? Were they really worried with what was said on the pitch? Far worse things have been said in the past if indeed what was claimed happened.
Or was the real reason that a key player and their coach were facing lenghty bans for their inapropriate behavior and they invented this story?
A player with a track record of indiscretions couldn't explain why he was so stupid to go after a player down the tunnel infront of a linesman so he made up the sectarian abuse?
They couldn't stand over their claims so it's only right that everyone takes them as false.
Is that you Parky?
Quote from: bennydorano on March 23, 2012, 06:59:28 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 05:54:44 PM
Either these allegations are true but after a quick word from HQ the Armagh CB ran away from them like spineless rats and weren't prepared to back their claims up or these claims were untrue and Armagh made them up to aid their appeal against suspensions to their player and selector.
Armagh have no proof, they've backed down, they now claim the partitionist abuse happened in a different match.
Armagh tried to vilify another county for their own gain, they are a disgrace to the GAA.
You've repeated a variant of this for a few pages now but I'd like to know how the fook are the claims to be backed up with evidence? It's going to be one persons word against another at best, the Ref (and linesmen) are both alleged to have clearly heard what went on and told the concerned Laois player/s to wise up, now the Ref is hardly going to come out now and back up Armagh's positions after the media furore this week is he?
This has nothing to do with what was claimed. McKeever, the Armagh CB, Grimley couldn't care less with what was said on the field, how could they when they're aware of far worse been said before?
This was all about trying to get reduced bans for McKeever and Grimley, they tried to vilify another county to achieve this and it has backfired.
If they were concerned about abuse on the field they would have gathered reports from the referee and linesman and made a complaint the proper way. Instead they ran to the press.
I don't know why they haven't been forced to apologise but I'm sure the embarrassment alone will teach them something.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 23, 2012, 07:00:45 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 02:47:03 PMWouldn't you think McKeever said something just as offensive if not more offensive than what Billy's been accused of?
So are you saying McKeever said something to Sheehan to start this whole thing?
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 06:25:37 PMWhy did they go public with it straight away? Were they really worried with what was said on the pitch? Far worse things have been said in the past if indeed what was claimed happened.
Or was the real reason that a key player and their coach were facing lenghty bans for their inapropriate behavior and they invented this story?
A player with a track record of indiscretions couldn't explain why he was so stupid to go after a player down the tunnel infront of a linesman so he made up the sectarian abuse?
They couldn't stand over their claims so it's only right that everyone takes them as false.
Is that you Parky?
No I'm saying both were mouthing away to eachother for the whole first half. You're not claiming McKeever kept his mouth shut are you? I'm sure he said some things that were fairly offensive.
Parky's an idiot but he's no where near as bad as McKeever.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 07:14:24 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 23, 2012, 06:59:28 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 23, 2012, 05:54:44 PM
Either these allegations are true but after a quick word from HQ the Armagh CB ran away from them like spineless rats and weren't prepared to back their claims up or these claims were untrue and Armagh made them up to aid their appeal against suspensions to their player and selector.
Armagh have no proof, they've backed down, they now claim the partitionist abuse happened in a different match.
Armagh tried to vilify another county for their own gain, they are a disgrace to the GAA.
You've repeated a variant of this for a few pages now but I'd like to know how the fook are the claims to be backed up with evidence? It's going to be one persons word against another at best, the Ref (and linesmen) are both alleged to have clearly heard what went on and told the concerned Laois player/s to wise up, now the Ref is hardly going to come out now and back up Armagh's positions after the media furore this week is he?
This has nothing to do with what was claimed. McKeever, the Armagh CB, Grimley couldn't care less with what was said on the field, how could they when they're aware of far worse been said before?
This was all about trying to get reduced bans for McKeever and Grimley, they tried to vilify another county to achieve this a
nd it has backfired.
If they were concerned about abuse on the field they would have gathered reports from the referee and linesman and made a complaint the proper way. Instead they ran to the press.
I don't know why they haven't been forced to apologise but I'm sure the embarrassment alone will teach them something.
I simply wanted to know how u suggest evidence can be gathered, because thats what you've been banging on about. I also think most people are pretty sure the 'british' carry on did occur, something you seem to think didnt, the embarassing about turn from the ACB doesnt alter the unsavoury behaviour of some Laois players. So again, my point is how do u expect 'evidence' to be gathered in such a situation?
Quote from: bennydorano on March 23, 2012, 07:42:47 PM
I simply wanted to know how u suggest evidence can be gathered, because thats what you've been banging on about. I also think most people are pretty sure the 'british' carry on did occur, something you seem to think didnt, the embarassing about turn from the ACB doesnt alter the unsavoury behaviour of some Laois players. So again, my point is how do u expect 'evidence' to be gathered in such a situation?
You prepare a statement to be sent to the CCCC or whoever the relevant authority is, you ask the referee and the linesman to confirm the statement is truthful. They would have no problem doing so if it was true. Then you send it off.
You don't run to the press with your allegations. Why do you think they did this?
Look at your post. How can people be "pretty sure the 'british' carry on did occur"? One player made the allegation, I'm sure the ref and linesman have been asked at this stage and they have denied ever hearing this.
You even say "unsavoury behaviour of some Laois players", as in more than one. A group of Laois players were singing God save the queen were they?
People assume there's truth in this and it looks bad for Laois GAA but have ye ever considered that there's no truth in it at all?
I've already made the point that the Ref is unlikely to do anything other than keep his head down with the diktats being issued by Herr cooney.
I really dont know what to make of your posts, you strike me as very niaive.
This is just what we need in the build up to our last relegation dog fight games, take a bow to whoever the f*** was involved. as another poster said harden the f*** up.
Mc Keever should have kept his gob shut. I am an Northern nationalist but hi for Gods Sake do your talking on the pitch and shut these eejits up that way, it is a wee bit embarrassing for Mc Keever, sort of like running to the teacher to tell him/her that someone was being bad in class. Next ball win it, second ball win it again,third ball win and clean him out, job done! A Laois man taking the piss out of anyone is a laugh in itself.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:18:53 PM
Mc Keever should have kept his gob shut. I am an Northern nationalist but hi for Gods Sake do your talking on the pitch and shut these eejits up that way, it is a wee bit embarrassing for Mc Keever, sort of like running to the teacher to tell him/her that someone was being bad in class. Next ball win it, second ball win it again,third ball win and clean him out, job done! A Laois man taking the piss out of anyone is a laugh in itself.
You'd want to be careful you don't end up with a job in the Armagh CB, jumping in with your facts all over the show like that.
Former board stalwart stands in support with Ciaran McKeever.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7077/7009355843_b0225101c6_z.jpg)
Quote from: AFS on March 23, 2012, 09:28:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:18:53 PM
Mc Keever should have kept his gob shut. I am an Northern nationalist but hi for Gods Sake do your talking on the pitch and shut these eejits up that way, it is a wee bit embarrassing for Mc Keever, sort of like running to the teacher to tell him/her that someone was being bad in class. Next ball win it, second ball win it again,third ball win and clean him out, job done! A Laois man taking the piss out of anyone is a laugh in itself.
You'd want to be careful you don't end up with a job in the Armagh CB, jumping in with your facts all over the show like that.
;)
Its friday night and I've had a few but is it just me or does it not seem weird that after a bad week for Armagh football that ye have a crazy Down man STILL as yer manager. The Down county board must be really enjoying this though it could all Change this weekend. Who was the last outside county manager to win Ulster?
QuoteBecause they know he will react and hey know what buttons to push.
He should just wear a mic and post the outcome on the web.
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 23, 2012, 11:40:20 PM
Its friday night and I've had a few but is it just me or does it not seem weird that after a bad week for Armagh football that ye have a crazy Down man STILL as yer manager. The Down county board must be really enjoying this though it could all Change this weekend. Who was the last outside county manager to win Ulster?
Was it McHugh when over Cavan? Who was manager of Derry in 98?
Quote from: ONeill on March 24, 2012, 12:23:54 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 23, 2012, 11:40:20 PM
Its friday night and I've had a few but is it just me or does it not seem weird that after a bad week for Armagh football that ye have a crazy Down man STILL as yer manager. The Down county board must be really enjoying this though it could all Change this weekend. Who was the last outside county manager to win Ulster?
Was it McHugh when over Cavan? Who was manager of Derry in 98?
I'm pretty sure it was Brian Mullins, he was over Derry in 97 definitely and Coleman came back in 99 or 2000 and I don't remember anyone else in charge of Derry in that period
Quote from: tyrone86 on March 24, 2012, 12:29:29 AM
Quote from: ONeill on March 24, 2012, 12:23:54 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 23, 2012, 11:40:20 PM
Its friday night and I've had a few but is it just me or does it not seem weird that after a bad week for Armagh football that ye have a crazy Down man STILL as yer manager. The Down county board must be really enjoying this though it could all Change this weekend. Who was the last outside county manager to win Ulster?
Was it McHugh when over Cavan? Who was manager of Derry in 98?
I'm pretty sure it was Brian Mullins, he was over Derry in 97 definitely and Coleman came back in 99 or 2000 and I don't remember anyone else in charge of Derry in that period
Good call tyrone86 . . .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/2157388.stm
McKeever had his suspension lifted tonight
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2012, 02:10:17 AM
McKeever had his suspension lifted tonight
Mmmmmhhhhh, and some wondered why ACB came out with the embarrassing climb down over the past few days. Aren't the workings of the GAA great?
Good for us if true, but another terrible precedent set.
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 23, 2012, 06:06:40 PM
Or a bit of horse trading has gone on to get it swept under the carpet
you got it McKeevers suspension was lifted last night pending an investigation.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:18:53 PM
Mc Keever should have kept his gob shut. I am an Northern nationalist but hi for Gods Sake do your talking on the pitch and shut these eejits up that way, it is a wee bit embarrassing for Mc Keever, sort of like running to the teacher to tell him/her that someone was being bad in class. Next ball win it, second ball win it again,third ball win and clean him out, job done! A Laois man taking the piss out of anyone is a laugh in itself.
McKeever has stayed silent throughout this..it was the ACB who went to press.
My understanding is that the reason McKeevers suspension was lifted was because it wasn't a red card offence and was simply a yellow card offence. He tripped your man as they were walking down the tunnel but didn't strike him. Also read that the offence was reported by the 4th official who does not have the authority so he actually got off on a technicality as well. Open to correction.
Close to the bone there bcb1. It was the 4th official as both linesmen and ref were still on the pitch with grimley at the time and he technically cannot report anything. But even he didn't see what happened, it was only when a laois person made an issue of the bit of pushing that the whole thing snowballed.
As for the claims about the abuse why would McNulty call Mckeever to apologise if nothing happened.
McKeever ran across the pitch at half time to get at Sheehan, he deserved to be sent off. Getting off on a technicality doesn't change that.
The 4th official saw McKeever running, he was keeping a close eye on it, he didn't need anyone to make an issue out of it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 24, 2012, 11:16:28 AM
McKeever ran across the pitch at half time to get at Sheehan, he deserved to be sent off. Getting off on a technicality doesn't change that.
The 4th official saw McKeever running, he was keeping a close eye on it, he didn't need anyone to make an issue out of it.
Well he is playing tonight against Down
No harm to you don't matter it is easy to make these accusations as you said in earlier posts but you have no evidence. I was at the match and on the way off the pitch there was no sign of anyone chasing after anyone else. It sounds more and more like nothing major happened either way and the whole thing exploded up because officials made a balls up.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 24, 2012, 12:56:14 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 24, 2012, 11:16:28 AM
McKeever ran across the pitch at half time to get at Sheehan, he deserved to be sent off. Getting off on a technicality doesn't change that.
The 4th official saw McKeever running, he was keeping a close eye on it, he didn't need anyone to make an issue out of it.
Well he is playing tonight against Down
Yes, lets hope he behaves himself.
Quote from: Throw ball on March 24, 2012, 03:30:06 PM
No harm to you don't matter it is easy to make these accusations as you said in earlier posts but you have no evidence. I was at the match and on the way off the pitch there was no sign of anyone chasing after anyone else. It sounds more and more like nothing major happened either way and the whole thing exploded up because officials made a balls up.
No not chasing but he had to catch up with him.
It would have been better for everyone if we just discussed the poor standard of the referee. He's been poor for a long time and his performance wasn't highlighted with these other issues.
We don't want players coming out with some story to try to get their ban reduced every week, be the story true or not. It should have been left be.
Hopefully everyone will move on and forget about it.
Hopefully no references to 'British B' tonite in Armagh City.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 24, 2012, 11:16:28 AM
McKeever ran across the pitch at half time to get at Sheehan, he deserved to be sent off. Getting off on a technicality doesn't change that.
The 4th official saw McKeever running, he was keeping a close eye on it, he didn't need anyone to make an issue out of it.
But by your own logic, now that the suspension has been withdrawn, its clear he musnt have done anything at all?!
I'd say the gombeens who spout the 'British' taunts have never known what it is to have your national identity threatened and to be constantly protecting and nourishing it. I wonder do they afford the same care to their alleged 'Irishness'?
Having said that, McKeever should've known better and hit back by making sure that they beat laois.
Laois were leading Antrim by 8 points in the Hurling at one stage and still lost by 2, perhaps this weeks saga spurred Antrim on ::)
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 24, 2012, 06:24:36 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 24, 2012, 02:10:17 AM
McKeever had his suspension lifted tonight
Mmmmmhhhhh, and some wondered why ACB came out with the embarrassing climb down over the past few days. Aren't the workings of the GAA great?
Fair play to Mc Keever for getting off.
So GAA have approached Armagh and Laois and done a wee deal to save any further embarassing headlines.
Christy is a really special man for being able to sort this mess out with a wee slight of hand. Well done Christy again.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/809/313204/
Brolly puts it in perspective.
Impossible to prevent sledging, says Coulter
NEWS: What can be done about sledging? Not a lot, writes GAVIN CUMMISKEY
SPORTS LIKE cricket and baseball view sledging as an art form, but Gaelic games currently has an issue with psychological baiting.
But who can stop a man whispering into another man's ear? And what harm can come of it? Granted, Multiple Miggs didn't react so well to Hannibal Lector's late night comments, an incident that was never even reviewed by the Central Competitions Control Committee.
"I don't think anybody can do anything about it because how can you stop it?" asked Benny Coulter. "If it's there and the referee doesn't even know about it it's impossible to stop it."
The Armagh-Laois "storm in a teacup" has calmed. The "hysteria" passed.
There was, it turns out, no sectarian or racial abuse directed by a Laois player to Armagh captain Ciarán McKeever.
And McKeever didn't kick anyone in retaliation.
So nothing happened.
We know this because we were told as much via official statements by the respective county boards and disciplinary arm of the GAA. The Central Hearings Committee exonerated McKeever despite the words written in referee Michael Duffy's report.
Laois manager and former Armagh footballer Justin McNulty thinks we should let it lie. That was his general gist at the launch of the Kellog's GAA Cúl camps in Croke Park yesterday.
"All I can say is that I'd have to commend my players and commend the Laois County Board in terms of their conduct throughout the almost hysteria. They took the oxygen out of the situation by not getting involved in it and they deserve commendation for that. As for the actual incident itself or the so-called incidents I've nothing to add on the matter."
When pressed, McNulty added: "I'm from where I'm from and it's not something that's going to insult me. It's like me calling someone (from Kerry) a Kerry langer. What's the big deal here? That's where you're from so really I think it's storm in a teacup. There's no issue at play here.
"There's been hysteria created out of something that's not even that big and that's not even a big issue – it's not an issue."
Coulter was also floating about the Ash Suite yesterday so we asked him about this non-issue. Down's marquee forward these past 12 years has been a prime target for the venomous whispering from devilish corner backs. Interestingly, Benny has only taken abuse from neighbouring man markers. "In my experience it was in the Ulster championship. When I went out of that into the qualifiers it definitely wasn't happening."
Coulter terms the marking process as "trips." And it is a journey; when one man follows another for 70 minutes, or less depending how things go, with the directly conflicting intentions. "You felt like turning around and driving someone. Obviously you can't. It's cleaned up a bit and it hasn't happened this last couple of years."
That's the whole idea isn't it; he wants you to retaliate physically so he can crumble to the turf as if struck by a machete.
"Yeah, that's the thing."
In recent years the evil shadows have grown tired of Coulter. What more can be said to the man? "Probably, I'm a bit more experienced. You've been on trips with different people. Probably these boys have wised up a bit to what they were at years ago. It hasn't happened for a couple of years."
Many a great GAA defender never uttered a single word. Páidi Ó Sé, for example, wrote in his autobiography that he rarely spoke to the forward he was tracking.
"If it's still going on I'd definitely be pushing to stamp it out," Coulter went on. "There was a lot of talk last year of players going out to intimidate whoever they are marking. There was a book out there this year and there was a bit I read in it where you were told to go out and intimidate whoever you are marking.
"I spoke to a few of the boys out in Australia about it and they felt the same. They were getting a bit of sledging too, the likes of Stevie McDonnell and Paddy Bradley and them boys."
They are inventive little talkers, them corner backs, with their choice of words. "Aye, they are, sometime you will maybe get them back when you are retired and see them some time."
Best response? Easy. "You try to just win the next ball and put it over the bar or in the back of the net. That's what you try to do."
But the teacup storm will always rage inside the white lines.
"Sometimes it might put you off and other days it might drive you on. It's a two way thing. Some days it works, some days it doesn't."
So be ready for it.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0328/1224314004610.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0328/1224314004610.html)
Of course Benny Coulter is being diplomatic here. What he really means is "Ryan McMenamin"! ;D
I used to feel sorry for Brendan Devenney. One year in three consecutive games he marked Ryan McMenamim, Enda McNulty and Ryan McCloskey(who's probably as had or worse than the other two...). His head must have been turned!
their all at it - and some coaches and managers are worse than players, in Armagh qualifier game v Tyrone last year a member of Armagh backroom team give Sean Cavanagh an awful mouthful! Armagh can get off their high horse - crying the wee innocent victims. Their as bad as anyone if not worse
QuoteI used to feel sorry for Brendan Devenney. One year in three consecutive games he marked Ryan McMenamim, Enda McNulty and Ryan McCloskey(who's probably as had or worse than the other two...). His head must have been turned!
His head was turned, a case of if you can't beat them join them.
Quotetheir all at it - and some coaches and managers are worse than players, in Armagh qualifier game v Tyrone last year a member of Armagh backroom team give Sean Cavanagh an awful mouthful! Armagh can get off their high horse - crying the wee innocent victims.
Did he say that Cavanagh was not an Irishman.
There is a serious point in all of this. People from the ROI now quite comfortably refer to Ireland meaning the 26 and Northern Ireland meaning the 6. Like Unionists they make reference to a Northern Ireland person not a Northern Irish person and there is a subtle distinction. The extension of this mind set is we are not Irish but have a British sub nationality Northern Irelander! I've even heard them refer to "The Province", something SDLP politicians such as John Dallat and Conal McDevitt have been quite comfortably doing recently in interviews.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 29, 2012, 10:40:43 AM
There is a serious point in all of this. People from the ROI now quite comfortably refer to Ireland meaning the 26 and Northern Ireland meaning the 6. Like Unionists they make reference to a Northern Ireland person not a Northern Irish person and there is a subtle distinction. The extension of this mind set is we are not Irish but have a British sub nationality Northern Irelander! I've even heard them refer to "The Province", something SDLP politicians such as John Dallat and Conal McDevitt have been quite comfortably doing recently in interviews.
It bothers some people and doesn't bother others. Myself, im a proud 6 county nordie ( or 9 county, more than happy to include our friends from donegal, cavan and monaghan). I don't feel anyway british, i have always played only mainly gaa, i speak irish probably a lot better than a lot of people I know from the south. Though it doesn't make me any better an irishman than them, it also doesn't make me any worse. Some don't like to admit it, but we have a different identity, but sure there's also a huge cultural difference between someone from dublin than someone from clare, just as there is a fella from mayo compared to cork. Anytime i've met southern women they couldn't be more friendly, we always said that once you got past the border areas of monaghan and louth, the further south you went the nicer the blades got!
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 29, 2012, 10:40:43 AM
There is a serious point in all of this. People from the ROI now quite comfortably refer to Ireland meaning the 26 and Northern Ireland meaning the 6. Like Unionists they make reference to a Northern Ireland person not a Northern Irish person and there is a subtle distinction. The extension of this mind set is we are not Irish but have a British sub nationality Northern Irelander! I've even heard them refer to "The Province", something SDLP politicians such as John Dallat and Conal McDevitt have been quite comfortably doing recently in interviews.
Yes. Another thing that bugs me is that people south of the partition will refer to other people (quite rightly) by their county e.g. he/she is from Cork, Dublin, Mayo, Cavan, etc. But never will they say he/she is from Down/Armagh/Tyrone etc. Instead they say "from Northern Ireland" like its a 27 county country!
Any of ye people from Norther Ireland Armagh have any word on the CCCC meeting last night?
It's alright don't bother ye're Northern heads, here's the scéal: http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=165378
begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, whose word did the referee take in the first place?
Quote from: sheamy on March 29, 2012, 01:16:36 PM
begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, who's word did the referee take in the first place?
The 4th official who has no standing to make the report.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 29, 2012, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 29, 2012, 01:16:36 PM
begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, who's word did the referee take in the first place?
The 4th official who has no standing to make the report.
I'm struggling to comprehend this.
They can't take the word of the 4th official (because he is not allowed to point out indiscretions) yet they were apparently trying to find a "reputable witness". Other than the 3 main officials how could they ever find a more "reputible witness" than the 4th official?
It's crazy.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 29, 2012, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 29, 2012, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 29, 2012, 01:16:36 PM
begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, who's word did the referee take in the first place?
The 4th official who has no standing to make the report.
I'm struggling to comprehend this.
They can't take the word of the 4th official (because he is not allowed to point out indiscretions) yet they were apparently trying to find a "reputable witness". Other than the 3 main officials how could they ever find a more "reputible witness" than the 4th official?
It's crazy.
What are the Duties of a Sideline Official?
The duties of the sideline official are:
To receive substitution notes giving the name and number of a substitute or temporary substitute and the name and number of the player being substituted or replaced. To record and report all substitutions and temporary substitutions made during a game to the referee for inclusion in the match report. To display by means of electronic or manual board the numbers of players being substituted. To display by means of electronic or manual board
taken from the official guide
More shameless self-promotion, but for anyone interested...
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/opinion-abuse-should-go-in-one-ear-and-out-the-other-for-armagh-400378-Mar2012/
My first post on here and what a humdinger of a thread. Sledging is part and parcel of the game which I have experienced a lot of during my playing time. I think the agenda to turn football into a non contact sport is a contributory factor as it's now easier to get a player booked. I also blame the win at all costs "including your dignity" mentality that's come into the game.
As for what was said in this particular instance. Well of all the people to get on their high horses I have to laugh at Armagh. Armagh fans are definitly the most foul mouthed I've come across. I remember an Ulster final about 10-12 years ago I was in my mid teens and my cousin and I found ourselves standing in the hill in Clones surrounded by about 50 Armagh "men" who shouted abuse at us about "Londonderry" through the whole game. So they don't have my sympathy.
http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549
Published on Friday 30 March 2012 10:30
"I'm not prejudiced but if a c**n moved in next door, I'd move, like most white people would. If my daughter came home with a n****r, I'd go mad. But I'm only being truthful and normal."
So said Anfield legend Tommy Smith in an interview with author Dave Hill in 1988. At the time, black soccer players like Justin Fashanu and Cyril Regis were running the gauntlet. When they took to the field on Saturdays at 3pm, the stands erupted in gorilla chants. Bananas were thrown onto the field. When West Brom broke new ground by signing Regis, Laurie Cunningham and Brendan Bateson, they were promptly christened "The Three Degrees" and amended lyrics from the American group's hits were sung at every ground. When Regis was selected to play for England, he received a bullet in the post with a note reading: "If you play for us at Wembley, one of these will be shot into your knees, you black b******." This is racism.
The Armagh County Board last week accusing a Laois player of "racism" after he repeatedly taunted their captain Ciaran McKeever, alledgely branding him " a British bastard" and shouting "God save the Queen" in his face. British? Affordable housing, safe banks, steady employment and a stable infrastructure? On one view, it's not much of an insult. And it isn't racism.
What it is however, is an unpleasant attack on the ethos of the GAA, betraying as it does a certain partitionist mentality. In his book, Big Joe Kernan recalls " One of the few times as Armagh manager I really lost my temper was in a league game against Laois. One Laois man, who was part of the official party squared up to John Rafferty and called us 'orange b*****ds'. While I should have laughed at it, I was infuriated. I felt like laying him out with a punch, but managed to restrain myself."
When Saint Mary's CBS Grammar school from Belfast played and defeated Doon CBS from Limerick in the colleges All-Ireland 'B' hurling semi-final a fortnight ago, the Belfast students complained afterwards that they were subjected to incessant racial abuse by the opposition. The father of one of the lads described in a local newspaper how when he went to celebrate with his son at the final whistle, he was told by one of the Doon players to "Go back to Britain and play your f***ing games up there."
It is a dirty secret. It is widespread. Yet the authorities pretend it doesn't exist. The hierarchy was reported to be "furious" at the Armagh Board's public statement, written by chairman Paul Duggan, a man of the utmost integrity. Yet his complaint, instead of sparking an immediate inquisition, was brushed under the carpet by Croke Park. Within a day, a very bland joint statement was released by the Armagh and Laois boards suggesting that nothing had really happened at all. Meanwhile Armagh's assistant manager Paul Grimley was pointing out that both the referee and the linesman spoke to the Laois player in question during the game and asked him to refrain. Can you imagine what would happen if the Ulster RFU alleged that Rory Best had been told to "Go back to Britain you orange b******d"during an interprovincial game at Donnybrook? The IRFU would come down on the culprit like a ton of bricks. Yet when the exact same thing happens in our game – and it happens all the time - it is buried.
There has always been a slightly uneasy relationship between elements of the Irish people north and south. After the Derrytresk/Dromid incident a few months ago, Joe Duffy had outraged southern-folk queuing up to vent to their spleen about those dirty northerners. Two "Liveline" shows were devoted to the scandal and still they jammed the switchboards, each new caller more indignant than the last. A man from Kildare summed up the mood when he suggested, "The Northern Ireland crowd should be told to play their football up in Northern Ireland."
A few days later, petrol was poured on the Dromid fire by the request from Dr Crokes' Killarney chairman Vincent Casey that their supporters be segregated from Crossmaglen's for their recent All-Ireland club semi-final. Casey had other demands: "We are also looking for an increased number of stewards at the venue and a bigger Garda presence than last Sunday." He seemed to think that Crossmaglen's supporters would be arriving sporting black berets, dark glasses and AK47s. It was of course nonsensical, but again, it illustrated a certain mindset.
Culturally, we are no doubt slightly different. In a way, northern Gaels are more ferocious about our Irishness because we had to fight harder for it. My father, a veteran republican, fluent Irish speaker and traditional musician steeped in all things Gaelic quipped to me during the week, " Don't be too hard on the southerners Joe, some of them are almost as Irish as we are." Our experience explains why we are far more fervent about our province than the other three. When I began working in RTE I was amazed that Cork people didn't support Kerry when they got out of Munster and Mayo folk didn't support Galway. Up here, we rally round whoever gets through because we feel we are all in it together. When Tyrone scored their killer goal in the 2005 final against Kerry, a Derry man sitting in the stand jumped up, punched the air in delight and roared, "Come on you Tyrone b******ds!"
In 1998, Michael McGimpsey, the Unionist Minister for Sport gave the IFA a £9million grant for the development of local soccer. The GAA – as was usual then - got nothing. The Ulster Council issued discrimination proceedings and the Department settled out of court for £6.7 million. The gates had been prised open and we have kept them open since. A high ranking official in Croke Park remarked snidely to me some years ago that, "You boys up there are experts at taking the Queen's shilling."
In 2009, ex Roscommon goalie Shane Curran, in his weekly column in the "Roscommon Champion" insisted the northern counties' success had little to do with ability- and more to do with financial assistance from the 'British' government. He wrote, "The emergence of the northern counties owes as much to the peace process and the financial assistance afforded to them by her Majesty than any real innovation. Money has played a significant part in the development of Tyrone and to a lesser extent Armagh." The fact that he felt secure enough to write this in an Irish paper speaks volumes.
When Martin McGuinness announced his presidential campaign, vitriol flowed. Appearing on RTE's Frontline he was asked by one young woman: "Why are you running in this election, you are not Irish, why do you not go back up north, you belong to a different state, this is the Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland".
When northern teams were winning nothing, coming down to get an annual hammering, we were patronised left, right and centre. "It's great to see ye keeping the game alive up there." When we started winning and winning regularly in the 90s and noughties, begrudgery was the new theme. Armagh were robots. Tyrone? Puke footballers. Suddenly, we are British b*****ds who should go back to the north.
Northmen, Southmen, comrades all my arse.
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 30, 2012, 02:30:36 PM
My first post on here and what a humdinger of a thread. Sledging is part and parcel of the game which I have experienced a lot of during my playing time. I think the agenda to turn football into a non contact sport is a contributory factor as it's now easier to get a player booked. I also blame the win at all costs "including your dignity" mentality that's come into the game.
As for what was said in this particular instance. Well of all the people to get on their high horses I have to laugh at Armagh. Armagh fans are definitly the most foul mouthed I've come across. I remember an Ulster final about 10-12 years ago I was in my mid teens and my cousin and I found ourselves standing in the hill in Clones surrounded by about 50 Armagh "men" who shouted abuse at us about "Londonderry" through the whole game. So they don't have my sympathy.
How can it be abuse if the official title of the county is Londonderry, Armagh may be part of the current UK but it isn't in Britain.
Quote from: PatDaly on March 31, 2012, 02:27:36 AM
http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549
Published on Friday 30 March 2012 10:30
"I'm not prejudiced but if a c**n moved in next door, I'd move, like most white people would. If my daughter came home with a n****r, I'd go mad. But I'm only being truthful and normal."
So said Anfield legend Tommy Smith in an interview with author Dave Hill in 1988. At the time, black soccer players like Justin Fashanu and Cyril Regis were running the gauntlet. When they took to the field on Saturdays at 3pm, the stands erupted in gorilla chants. Bananas were thrown onto the field. When West Brom broke new ground by signing Regis, Laurie Cunningham and Brendan Bateson, they were promptly christened "The Three Degrees" and amended lyrics from the American group's hits were sung at every ground. When Regis was selected to play for England, he received a bullet in the post with a note reading: "If you play for us at Wembley, one of these will be shot into your knees, you black b******." This is racism.
The Armagh County Board last week accusing a Laois player of "racism" after he repeatedly taunted their captain Ciaran McKeever, alledgely branding him " a British b**tard" and shouting "God save the Queen" in his face. British? Affordable housing, safe banks, steady employment and a stable infrastructure? On one view, it's not much of an insult. And it isn't racism.
What it is however, is an unpleasant attack on the ethos of the GAA, betraying as it does a certain partitionist mentality. In his book, Big Joe Kernan recalls " One of the few times as Armagh manager I really lost my temper was in a league game against Laois. One Laois man, who was part of the official party squared up to John Rafferty and called us 'orange b*****ds'. While I should have laughed at it, I was infuriated. I felt like laying him out with a punch, but managed to restrain myself."
When Saint Mary's CBS Grammar school from Belfast played and defeated Doon CBS from Limerick in the colleges All-Ireland 'B' hurling semi-final a fortnight ago, the Belfast students complained afterwards that they were subjected to incessant racial abuse by the opposition. The father of one of the lads described in a local newspaper how when he went to celebrate with his son at the final whistle, he was told by one of the Doon players to "Go back to Britain and play your f***ing games up there."
It is a dirty secret. It is widespread. Yet the authorities pretend it doesn't exist. The hierarchy was reported to be "furious" at the Armagh Board's public statement, written by chairman Paul Duggan, a man of the utmost integrity. Yet his complaint, instead of sparking an immediate inquisition, was brushed under the carpet by Croke Park. Within a day, a very bland joint statement was released by the Armagh and Laois boards suggesting that nothing had really happened at all. Meanwhile Armagh's assistant manager Paul Grimley was pointing out that both the referee and the linesman spoke to the Laois player in question during the game and asked him to refrain. Can you imagine what would happen if the Ulster RFU alleged that Rory Best had been told to "Go back to Britain you orange b******d"during an interprovincial game at Donnybrook? The IRFU would come down on the culprit like a ton of bricks. Yet when the exact same thing happens in our game – and it happens all the time - it is buried.
There has always been a slightly uneasy relationship between elements of the Irish people north and south. After the Derrytresk/Dromid incident a few months ago, Joe Duffy had outraged southern-folk queuing up to vent to their spleen about those dirty northerners. Two "Liveline" shows were devoted to the scandal and still they jammed the switchboards, each new caller more indignant than the last. A man from Kildare summed up the mood when he suggested, "The Northern Ireland crowd should be told to play their football up in Northern Ireland."
A few days later, petrol was poured on the Dromid fire by the request from Dr Crokes' Killarney chairman Vincent Casey that their supporters be segregated from Crossmaglen's for their recent All-Ireland club semi-final. Casey had other demands: "We are also looking for an increased number of stewards at the venue and a bigger Garda presence than last Sunday." He seemed to think that Crossmaglen's supporters would be arriving sporting black berets, dark glasses and AK47s. It was of course nonsensical, but again, it illustrated a certain mindset.
Culturally, we are no doubt slightly different. In a way, northern Gaels are more ferocious about our Irishness because we had to fight harder for it. My father, a veteran republican, fluent Irish speaker and traditional musician steeped in all things Gaelic quipped to me during the week, " Don't be too hard on the southerners Joe, some of them are almost as Irish as we are." Our experience explains why we are far more fervent about our province than the other three. When I began working in RTE I was amazed that Cork people didn't support Kerry when they got out of Munster and Mayo folk didn't support Galway. Up here, we rally round whoever gets through because we feel we are all in it together. When Tyrone scored their killer goal in the 2005 final against Kerry, a Derry man sitting in the stand jumped up, punched the air in delight and roared, "Come on you Tyrone b******ds!"
In 1998, Michael McGimpsey, the Unionist Minister for Sport gave the IFA a £9million grant for the development of local soccer. The GAA – as was usual then - got nothing. The Ulster Council issued discrimination proceedings and the Department settled out of court for £6.7 million. The gates had been prised open and we have kept them open since. A high ranking official in Croke Park remarked snidely to me some years ago that, "You boys up there are experts at taking the Queen's shilling."
In 2009, ex Roscommon goalie Shane Curran, in his weekly column in the "Roscommon Champion" insisted the northern counties' success had little to do with ability- and more to do with financial assistance from the 'British' government. He wrote, "The emergence of the northern counties owes as much to the peace process and the financial assistance afforded to them by her Majesty than any real innovation. Money has played a significant part in the development of Tyrone and to a lesser extent Armagh." The fact that he felt secure enough to write this in an Irish paper speaks volumes.
When Martin McGuinness announced his presidential campaign, vitriol flowed. Appearing on RTE's Frontline he was asked by one young woman: "Why are you running in this election, you are not Irish, why do you not go back up north, you belong to a different state, this is the Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland".
When northern teams were winning nothing, coming down to get an annual hammering, we were patronised left, right and centre. "It's great to see ye keeping the game alive up there." When we started winning and winning regularly in the 90s and noughties, begrudgery was the new theme. Armagh were robots. Tyrone? Puke footballers. Suddenly, we are British b*****ds who should go back to the north.
Northmen, Southmen, comrades all my arse.
Brilliant post. What is overlooked in all of this is that the Statelet to which we were abandoned gave us nothing for 70 plus years. It doesn't matter if you pay your taxes in Punt, Euro, Stg or even Deutchmark you are entitled to your share. It has been quickly forgotton by some Southmen that Britain as a net contributer to Europe funded a lot of development in the south and whatever the motive stepped up to the plate with a bailout recently.
The Londondery bit earlier was tongue in cheek, but there is a difference in the slagging that goes on in the crowd and the deliberate sledging of a player to get him sent off.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2012, 10:14:43 AM
The Londondery bit earlier was tongue in cheek, but there is a difference in the slagging that goes on in the crowd and the deliberate sledging of a player to get him sent off.
Whats that then?
Fair play to Brolly - he tells it like it really is, one rule for the southerners and another for the nordies!! And the southeners really can't take it when the nordies beat them with Brolly highlighting the excuses offered by the Roscommon man which sounded so much like spillane when tyrone were beating kerry in all the big games. But at a much higher level you now have cooney pontificating about armagh goin to the press about the laois episode - where was cooney when dromid joe duffy's were goin to the press, as brolly says 'northmen, southmen, comrades all my arse'. No doubt if cross beat garrycastle they'll probably have done it because the army helped them train so hard for so many years - or some other ridiculous reason why the southeners can't match the professionalism of the nordies!!!!!!
Watch you back round rte (really trashy entertainers) Joe.
While I've no doubt that the Armagh county board behaved with remarkable stupidity, I suppose its done no harm to get this issue out into the open a little more. Its not racism, its not the worst thing that happens in our sport but it is unpleasant and does grate slightly with those of us from the north.
I must say I'd missed that quote from Curran at the time. I'd always thought of him as an arrogant egotistical arsehole but it seems ignorant and idiotic should be added to that list.
As a northerner and a Derry Journal Reader I'm embarrassed at that article from Joe Brolly. Joe's an extremely intelligent man but he's also extremely insecure as are many northern nationalists. The Derry Journal is a cross border paper in which a fair portion is dedicated to Inishowen and that kind of rhetoric is uncommon in that paper.
He seems to have Sinn Fein tinted glasses on when talking about Martin McGuinness and neglects to mention the fact that Mary Macaleese was a popular president. During that period too many people got being anti-Sinn Fein with anti northern. The fact is that if Martin went for an MP seat in his home town he probably wouldn't win. Is that Derry people being anti northern?
What I find with a lot of fellow Northern Nationalists is that they are so obsessed with trying to overcompensate their Irishness that they aren't comfortable in their own skin and overreact when something small like that 2 weeks ago happens. Joe Brolly being a case in point. He's a bigotted little man when all's said and done.
Quote from: OakleafCounty on April 01, 2012, 12:36:13 AM
As a northerner and a Derry Journal Reader I'm embarrassed at that article from Joe Brolly. Joe's an extremely intelligent man but he's also extremely insecure as are many northern nationalists. The Derry Journal is a cross border paper in which a fair portion is dedicated to Inishowen and that kind of rhetoric is uncommon in that paper.
He seems to have Sinn Fein tinted glasses on when talking about Martin McGuinness and neglects to mention the fact that Mary Macaleese was a popular president. During that period too many people got being anti-Sinn Fein with anti northern. The fact is that if Martin went for an MP seat in his home town he probably wouldn't win. Is that Derry people being anti northern?
What I find with a lot of fellow Northern Nationalists is that they are so obsessed with trying to overcompensate their Irishness that they aren't comfortable in their own skin and overreact when something small like that 2 weeks ago happens. Joe Brolly being a case in point. He's a bigotted little man when all's said and done.
Yes, Joe is just a p***k. Intelligent fella, overated footballer, consistantly factually incorrect analyist.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 31, 2012, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: PatDaly on March 31, 2012, 02:27:36 AM
http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549
Published on Friday 30 March 2012 10:30
"I'm not prejudiced but if a c**n moved in next door, I'd move, like most white people would. If my daughter came home with a n****r, I'd go mad. But I'm only being truthful and normal."
So said Anfield legend Tommy Smith in an interview with author Dave Hill in 1988. At the time, black soccer players like Justin Fashanu and Cyril Regis were running the gauntlet. When they took to the field on Saturdays at 3pm, the stands erupted in gorilla chants. Bananas were thrown onto the field. When West Brom broke new ground by signing Regis, Laurie Cunningham and Brendan Bateson, they were promptly christened "The Three Degrees" and amended lyrics from the American group's hits were sung at every ground. When Regis was selected to play for England, he received a bullet in the post with a note reading: "If you play for us at Wembley, one of these will be shot into your knees, you black b******." This is racism.
The Armagh County Board last week accusing a Laois player of "racism" after he repeatedly taunted their captain Ciaran McKeever, alledgely branding him " a British b**tard" and shouting "God save the Queen" in his face. British? Affordable housing, safe banks, steady employment and a stable infrastructure? On one view, it's not much of an insult. And it isn't racism.
What it is however, is an unpleasant attack on the ethos of the GAA, betraying as it does a certain partitionist mentality. In his book, Big Joe Kernan recalls " One of the few times as Armagh manager I really lost my temper was in a league game against Laois. One Laois man, who was part of the official party squared up to John Rafferty and called us 'orange b*****ds'. While I should have laughed at it, I was infuriated. I felt like laying him out with a punch, but managed to restrain myself."
When Saint Mary's CBS Grammar school from Belfast played and defeated Doon CBS from Limerick in the colleges All-Ireland 'B' hurling semi-final a fortnight ago, the Belfast students complained afterwards that they were subjected to incessant racial abuse by the opposition. The father of one of the lads described in a local newspaper how when he went to celebrate with his son at the final whistle, he was told by one of the Doon players to "Go back to Britain and play your f***ing games up there."
It is a dirty secret. It is widespread. Yet the authorities pretend it doesn't exist. The hierarchy was reported to be "furious" at the Armagh Board's public statement, written by chairman Paul Duggan, a man of the utmost integrity. Yet his complaint, instead of sparking an immediate inquisition, was brushed under the carpet by Croke Park. Within a day, a very bland joint statement was released by the Armagh and Laois boards suggesting that nothing had really happened at all. Meanwhile Armagh's assistant manager Paul Grimley was pointing out that both the referee and the linesman spoke to the Laois player in question during the game and asked him to refrain. Can you imagine what would happen if the Ulster RFU alleged that Rory Best had been told to "Go back to Britain you orange b******d"during an interprovincial game at Donnybrook? The IRFU would come down on the culprit like a ton of bricks. Yet when the exact same thing happens in our game – and it happens all the time - it is buried.
There has always been a slightly uneasy relationship between elements of the Irish people north and south. After the Derrytresk/Dromid incident a few months ago, Joe Duffy had outraged southern-folk queuing up to vent to their spleen about those dirty northerners. Two "Liveline" shows were devoted to the scandal and still they jammed the switchboards, each new caller more indignant than the last. A man from Kildare summed up the mood when he suggested, "The Northern Ireland crowd should be told to play their football up in Northern Ireland."
A few days later, petrol was poured on the Dromid fire by the request from Dr Crokes' Killarney chairman Vincent Casey that their supporters be segregated from Crossmaglen's for their recent All-Ireland club semi-final. Casey had other demands: "We are also looking for an increased number of stewards at the venue and a bigger Garda presence than last Sunday." He seemed to think that Crossmaglen's supporters would be arriving sporting black berets, dark glasses and AK47s. It was of course nonsensical, but again, it illustrated a certain mindset.
Culturally, we are no doubt slightly different. In a way, northern Gaels are more ferocious about our Irishness because we had to fight harder for it. My father, a veteran republican, fluent Irish speaker and traditional musician steeped in all things Gaelic quipped to me during the week, " Don't be too hard on the southerners Joe, some of them are almost as Irish as we are." Our experience explains why we are far more fervent about our province than the other three. When I began working in RTE I was amazed that Cork people didn't support Kerry when they got out of Munster and Mayo folk didn't support Galway. Up here, we rally round whoever gets through because we feel we are all in it together. When Tyrone scored their killer goal in the 2005 final against Kerry, a Derry man sitting in the stand jumped up, punched the air in delight and roared, "Come on you Tyrone b******ds!"
In 1998, Michael McGimpsey, the Unionist Minister for Sport gave the IFA a £9million grant for the development of local soccer. The GAA – as was usual then - got nothing. The Ulster Council issued discrimination proceedings and the Department settled out of court for £6.7 million. The gates had been prised open and we have kept them open since. A high ranking official in Croke Park remarked snidely to me some years ago that, "You boys up there are experts at taking the Queen's shilling."
In 2009, ex Roscommon goalie Shane Curran, in his weekly column in the "Roscommon Champion" insisted the northern counties' success had little to do with ability- and more to do with financial assistance from the 'British' government. He wrote, "The emergence of the northern counties owes as much to the peace process and the financial assistance afforded to them by her Majesty than any real innovation. Money has played a significant part in the development of Tyrone and to a lesser extent Armagh." The fact that he felt secure enough to write this in an Irish paper speaks volumes.
When Martin McGuinness announced his presidential campaign, vitriol flowed. Appearing on RTE's Frontline he was asked by one young woman: "Why are you running in this election, you are not Irish, why do you not go back up north, you belong to a different state, this is the Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland".
When northern teams were winning nothing, coming down to get an annual hammering, we were patronised left, right and centre. "It's great to see ye keeping the game alive up there." When we started winning and winning regularly in the 90s and noughties, begrudgery was the new theme. Armagh were robots. Tyrone? Puke footballers. Suddenly, we are British b*****ds who should go back to the north.
Northmen, Southmen, comrades all my arse.
Brilliant post. What is overlooked in all of this is that the Statelet to which we were abandoned gave us nothing for 70 plus years. It doesn't matter if you pay your taxes in Punt, Euro, Stg or even Deutchmark you are entitled to your share. It has been quickly forgotton by some Southmen that Britain as a net contributer to Europe funded a lot of development in the south and whatever the motive stepped up to the plate with a bailout recently.
AND, if memory serves me right, also took £7bn of a handout directly from the British b****rds a few years ago.
McKeever kicked a player down the tunnel, got sent off. He was in the wrong. No matter what the provocation you don't react by striking.
He should be criticised for his stupidity, it's not the first time he's been sent off this year alone. He may of cost Armagh a victory that day but since Armagh CB ran to the papers with their abuse story, McKeever's been treated as the victim.
So the plan worked, everyone has focused on the 'racist abuse' and avoided the obvious. If Armagh had won nothing would have been said, if McKeever didn't get sent off nothing would have been said. They wanted reduced bans for their player and coach and got them!
This sets a dangerous precedent, I wonder what stories people will invent during the championship to avoid suspensions.
Quote from: bigloudmouth on March 31, 2012, 12:55:35 PM
Fair play to Brolly - he tells it like it really is, one rule for the southerners and another for the nordies!! And the southeners really can't take it when the nordies beat them with Brolly highlighting the excuses offered by the Roscommon man which sounded so much like spillane when tyrone were beating kerry in all the big games. But at a much higher level you now have cooney pontificating about armagh goin to the press about the laois episode - where was cooney when dromid joe duffy's were goin to the press, as brolly says 'northmen, southmen, comrades all my arse'. No doubt if cross beat garrycastle they'll probably have done it because the army helped them train so hard for so many years - or some other ridiculous reason why the southeners can't match the professionalism of the nordies!!!!!!
Watch you back round rte (really trashy entertainers) Joe.
If ever there was an apt username.....
Quote from: Take Your Points on April 01, 2012, 12:48:04 PM
From the Official Guide......
1.12 Anti-Sectarian/Anti-Racist
The Association is Anti-Sectarian and Anti-Racist. Any
conduct by deed, word or gesture of a sectarian or racist
nature against any player, official, spectator or anyone else,
in the course of activities organised by the Association,
shall be deemed to have discredited the Association.
Penalty: As prescribed in Rule 7.2(e).
Rule 7.2 (e) Misconduct Considered to have Discredited the
Association.
Penalties:
Member - A minimum 8 weeks suspension. Debarment
and Expulsion from the Association may also be
considered.
Team/Unit - Where suspension is deemed appropriate
- a minimum of 8 weeks. A Fine, Disqualification
and Expulsion from the Association may also be
considered.
Yes, it's a serious offence. Lets hope more teams don't use the seriousness of the claims to try and avoid suspensions for themselves.
Go tubberman, really insightful - denial and more of the blind leading the blind, maybe you should switch codes and adopt the Wenger approach to Arsenal wrongdoings - never sees or hears any wrongdoing. Have the courage to accept the problem exists - then maybe it can be solved.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 01, 2012, 11:55:07 AM
McKeever kicked a player down the tunnel, got sent off. He was in the wrong. No matter what the provocation you don't react by striking.
It was aleged that he tripped 'a player'. No strike. Yellow card if on the field.
Let's see how quick the GAA are to call Garrycastle to book over the flooring of Aaron Kernan and breaking up the parade.
http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549 (http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549)
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on April 03, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 01, 2012, 11:55:07 AM
McKeever kicked a player down the tunnel, got sent off. He was in the wrong. No matter what the provocation you don't react by striking.
It was aleged that he tripped 'a player'. No strike. Yellow card if on the field.
Racist abuse was alleged and that was wrong.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 03, 2012, 12:17:04 PM
Let's see how quick the GAA are to call Garrycastle to book over the flooring of Aaron Kernan and breaking up the parade.
Garrycastle have no need to worry, all they have to do is go crying to the papers with abuse claims and they'll get away with it.
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 03, 2012, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 03, 2012, 12:17:04 PM
Let's see how quick the GAA are to call Garrycastle to book over the flooring of Aaron Kernan and breaking up the parade.
Garrycastle have no need to worry, all they have to do is go crying to the papers with abuse claims and they'll get away with it.
Lol!! Dromid!
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 03, 2012, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 03, 2012, 12:17:04 PM
Let's see how quick the GAA are to call Garrycastle to book over the flooring of Aaron Kernan and breaking up the parade.
Garrycastle have no need to worry, all they have to do is go crying to the papers with abuse claims and they'll get away with it.
Change the record!
Quote from: haranguerer on April 03, 2012, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 03, 2012, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 03, 2012, 12:17:04 PM
Let's see how quick the GAA are to call Garrycastle to book over the flooring of Aaron Kernan and breaking up the parade.
Garrycastle have no need to worry, all they have to do is go crying to the papers with abuse claims and they'll get away with it.
Lol!! Dromid!
Yes, Dromid played the victim card when they lost too, just like Armagh. Good point.
Quote from: Armamike on April 03, 2012, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on April 03, 2012, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 03, 2012, 12:17:04 PM
Let's see how quick the GAA are to call Garrycastle to book over the flooring of Aaron Kernan and breaking up the parade.
Garrycastle have no need to worry, all they have to do is go crying to the papers with abuse claims and they'll get away with it.
Change the record!
Talk to your own county men, apparently they're always the victims.
QuoteYes, Dromid played the victim card when they lost too, just like Armagh. Good point.
Armagh lost the game when one of their players was sent off without reference to the rules of the game.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2012, 09:56:15 PM
QuoteYes, Dromid played the victim card when they lost too, just like Armagh. Good point.
Armagh lost the game when one of their players was sent off without reference to the rules of the game.
Dromid claimed they lost the game because Derrytresk didn't play by the rules of the game.
Both Armagh and Dromid have behaved very similarly.
Dont matter you are learning this wum trait very well. You are almost single handedly keeping this thread alive. I see on other threads you have an interest in the Dubs too. Tell me do you really dislike other teams or is Laois football so boring you have to talk about something else.
Quote from: Throw ball on April 03, 2012, 10:13:54 PM
Dont matter you are learning this wum trait very well. You are almost single handedly keeping this thread alive. I see on other threads you have an interest in the Dubs too. Tell me do you really dislike other teams or is Laois football so boring you have to talk about something else.
I think you'll find it's Armagh folk keeping this thread alive.
I don't dislike Armagh or most teams. Only Dublin, the flourbags, Biffoland, Carlow, Kilkenny, Westmeath and London.
And yes Laois football is a bit boring, what's it to ya?
Edit: I hate Meath aswell.
Dont Matter - if you're not missing more than an apostrophe you might move on - this show is over - storm in a teacup.
To go on whinging is giving others an opportunity to have a cut at Laois.
Don't take it personally Dont Matter. Of course McKeever acted stupidly, the Armagh Co Board were totally out of order and not for the first time one of the Messrs Duffy ruined a potentially good game of football.
REPLAY??? :P
Dont matter makes a good point that surely theres a danger now of any sore loser or anyone who wants to deflect a bita attention from themselves will just run with a sob story to the papers or to good oul joe duffy - and he'll just make fun of everything. Cooney wasnt as quik to hit on dromid when that storm in a teacup blew up and the leadership have to stop the whingeing culture at source if they're going to stop the sore losers - we''l have video clips of all sorts appearin on youtube with the way phones are now. Be a shame to try and bolt the stable door when duffy is laughin at gaa again on national airways.
Just to put this in perspective. Ciaran McKeever held his own council on what went on in Laois, other than to say he didn't kick anyone. It was the County Secretary who did the Dromid and went running to the media. The issues I have in all of this are:
Calling GAA players freestate or British anything is not acceptable, but its not racist or sectarian. Deliberate sledging needs to stop, but there will always be mutual exchanges of verbals the content needs to be reined in.
The GAA in Croke Park have no rigth to silence the County Boards.
Armagh were stupid in running to the press like they did, although I think it was more to protect Grimley from 3 months suspension as technically that should mean he does not even go onto a pitch to coach or enter the dressing room to speak.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 05, 2012, 09:59:37 AM
Just to put this in perspective. Ciaran McKeever held his own council on what went on in Laois, other than to say he didn't kick anyone. It was the County Secretary who did the Dromid and went running to the media. The issues I have in all of this are:
Calling GAA players freestate or British anything is not acceptable, but its not racist or sectarian. Deliberate sledging needs to stop, but there will always be mutual exchanges of verbals the content needs to be reined in.
The GAA in Croke Park have no rigth to silence the County Boards.
Armagh were stupid in running to the press like they did, although I think it was more to protect Grimley from 3 months suspension as technically that should mean he does not even go onto a pitch to coach or enter the dressing room to speak.
:D I can see that catching on...those f*ckers 'did a dromid' on it...