Having a bit of a debate with a guy in the office here,he reckons Messi can't be put in the same bracket as Pele.. I think he can,as hes playing against a much higher calibre of defence in Europe. Anyone any views?
Did Larry Reilly ever play soccer?
If so, then its him.
If not, well its hardly worth having a thread on this subject.
Pointless debate. Different times.
Quote from: thejuice on January 27, 2012, 03:12:58 PM
Did Larry Reilly ever play soccer?
If so, then its him.
If not, well its hardly worth having a thread on this subject.
Even if he didn't, it's still him.
Easy....Steven Gerrard.
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
George Best.
(from http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/4309502.stm)
Perhaps the best pointer to where George Best sits among the footballing gods comes from the man generally reckoned to be the best.
Pele himself once dubbed Best "the greatest footballer in the world".
Whether that was an honest, realistic assessment or a diplomatic platitude can be argued long into the night.
But does Best deserve to be up there with Pele and Diego Maradona?
Rating the greats is always something of an empty exercise, and if you are dealing in the currency of cold hard facts and statistics, then the Belfast Boy doesn't measure up.
Pele's avalanche of 1,280 goals in a career that stretched over 20 years dwarfs just about any other player.
And it could be argued that Maradona won the World Cup almost single-handedly for Argentina in 1986.
There will be those who argue that Best never proved himself on the biggest stage, but it is grossly unfair to pit Best's international career for Northern Ireland against World Cup winners Pele and Maradona.
PELE
Career goals: 1,280
92 caps, 77 goals for Brazil
Played in 3 World Cup winning squads
2 World Club Cups with Santos
Declared a National Treasure by Brazil govt.
Also played for New York Cosmos
Fifa's Player of the Century award was a masterclass in fence-sitting as Pele and Maradona carried off the spoils, with Best not in the frame.
But is greatness purely to be measured in terms of silverware and numbers? Best won his share of honours, but his greatness was something that could not be quantified.
People might have stared awe-struck at Pele's magnificence and rejoiced in Maradona's devilry and dash.
But they were transfixed, bewitched and delighted by the impish, cheeky skills of Best that invariably brought a smile to all except the defenders who had to face him.
Pele devotees will recall the 1970 World Cup as his finest hour - the sublime chest control that allowed him to lash in a goal against Czechoslovakia, the attempt from his own half against the same country, the outrageous dummy that left Uruguay keeper Ladislao Masurkiewicz looking haplessly for man or ball.
Fans of Maradona will point to perhaps the greatest World Cup goal ever, the mesmerising run from the half-way line against England.
DIEGO MARADONA
91 caps, 34 goals for Argentina
1 WC winners medal, 1 runners-up
International debut at 16 v Hungary
South American player of the year 1979, 1980
Unlike Pele, played in Europe
Won league title with Napoli
Fifa Internet player of the century
But no-one will forget Best's goal against Benfica in the 1968 European Cup final where he broke clear, kept the coolest of heads and left the keeper groping with a body swerve that would have dislocated the hips of a mere mortal.
A common denominator shared by the three was the early start to their careers at an age when most kids are sitting school exams.
By 18, Pele had won a World Cup, which mapped out the rest of a career, that until he was tempted out of retirement by the American dollar, was spent in Brazil.
Having been declared a National Treasure by the Brazilian government, Pele was never given the chance to test himself in European club football.
Unfortunately, both Maradona and Best were possessed by a self-destructive spirit, which left everyone unfulfilled and wanting more.
I feel privileged to be old enough to have seen Best play
From AC
Have your say on 606
Maradona had already scaled the footballing summit in winning the 1986 World Cup when he hit the slippery slope in 1994, testing positive for drugs.
Best walked out at the top of his game when he was 28, but the early start to his career still meant he had played 11 seasons for Manchester United in arguably the toughest league in the world.
However, when he left, he may have had his best years to come and for that reason, many will argue that Best gave up his right to be considered the best that ever was.
All three also refused to go quietly once in the twilight of their careers.
GEORGE BEST
37 caps, 9 goals for NI
European Cup winner 1968
Won 2 League titles with Man Utd
Man Utd debut at 17yrs, 4mths
Effectively retired from top class football at 28
Still managed 11 seasons in the top flight
Other clubs: Dunstable, Stockport, Cork Celtic, Fulham, Hibernian, Bournemouth, Brisbane Lions
Played in NASL with LA Aztecs, Fort Lauderdale, and San Jose
Pele paraded his fading skills for New York Cosmos in the cause of boosting soccer in the States, while Maradona tried to coax his unwilling body to one last hurrah with the likes of Newell's Old Boys.
Best's farewell tour included Dunstable, Stockport, Cork Celtic, Fulham (alongside Bobby Moore), Hibernian, Bournemouth and Brisbane Lions, and also took in a Stateside leg.
But the ridicule they risked in playing past their sell-by date should be excused given their services to the game as a whole.
So with all factors taken into consideration, is there a definitive answer to the question 'who was the best'?
Probably not.
But what is sure is that George Best earned his right to be mentioned in the same breath as Pele, Maradona and other greats too.
And Pele certainly had his idea of who the Best man was.
Don't forget Bestie played for Tobermore United too!
Apparently it's Paul Scholes ::) ::) ::)
In champ man it was Ibrahima bakayoko
Puskas
I don't know if he had whiskas
Quote from: HiMucker on January 27, 2012, 03:53:00 PM
In champ man it was Ibrahima bakayoko
I was addicted to the 97/98 one and he was some boy along with a fella I nurtured Luca Cavallo. Bought the game of ebay last year but modern PCs too sophisticated for it and couldn't get it running.
David Healy
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Ross4Life is the only person i can think of.
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 27, 2012, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 27, 2012, 03:53:00 PM
In champ man it was Ibrahima bakayoko
I was addicted to the 97/98 one and he was some boy along with a fella I nurtured Luca Cavallo. Bought the game of ebay last year but modern PCs too sophisticated for it and couldn't get it running.
Thats a pity. Its the best game of the franchise. Victor Onoptko was another world beater. Ah good times!
Best I've ever seen is Maradonna.
You never saw Ray Treacy, then?
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on January 27, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Ross4Life is the only person i can think of.
I was unique talent back in the day alright could play in always most every position! two footed,excellent strength,balance & although didn't keep check of the goals scored i must be close to Pele.
Don't deserve the title of "Greatest Soccer player of all time" but i'll take it anyway. Thanks Geoff ;)
Bendtner
Quote from: heganboy on January 27, 2012, 03:41:33 PM
George Best.
(from http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/4309502.stm)
Perhaps the best pointer to where George Best sits among the footballing gods comes from the man generally reckoned to be the best.
Pele himself once dubbed Best "the greatest footballer in the world".
Whether that was an honest, realistic assessment or a diplomatic platitude can be argued long into the night.
But does Best deserve to be up there with Pele and Diego Maradona?
Rating the greats is always something of an empty exercise, and if you are dealing in the currency of cold hard facts and statistics, then the Belfast Boy doesn't measure up.
Pele's avalanche of 1,280 goals in a career that stretched over 20 years dwarfs just about any other player.
And it could be argued that Maradona won the World Cup almost single-handedly for Argentina in 1986.
There will be those who argue that Best never proved himself on the biggest stage, but it is grossly unfair to pit Best's international career for Northern Ireland against World Cup winners Pele and Maradona.
PELE
Career goals: 1,280
92 caps, 77 goals for Brazil
Played in 3 World Cup winning squads
2 World Club Cups with Santos
Declared a National Treasure by Brazil govt.
Also played for New York Cosmos
Fifa's Player of the Century award was a masterclass in fence-sitting as Pele and Maradona carried off the spoils, with Best not in the frame.
But is greatness purely to be measured in terms of silverware and numbers? Best won his share of honours, but his greatness was something that could not be quantified.
People might have stared awe-struck at Pele's magnificence and rejoiced in Maradona's devilry and dash.
But they were transfixed, bewitched and delighted by the impish, cheeky skills of Best that invariably brought a smile to all except the defenders who had to face him.
Pele devotees will recall the 1970 World Cup as his finest hour - the sublime chest control that allowed him to lash in a goal against Czechoslovakia, the attempt from his own half against the same country, the outrageous dummy that left Uruguay keeper Ladislao Masurkiewicz looking haplessly for man or ball.
Fans of Maradona will point to perhaps the greatest World Cup goal ever, the mesmerising run from the half-way line against England.
DIEGO MARADONA
91 caps, 34 goals for Argentina
1 WC winners medal, 1 runners-up
International debut at 16 v Hungary
South American player of the year 1979, 1980
Unlike Pele, played in Europe
Won league title with Napoli
Fifa Internet player of the century
But no-one will forget Best's goal against Benfica in the 1968 European Cup final where he broke clear, kept the coolest of heads and left the keeper groping with a body swerve that would have dislocated the hips of a mere mortal.
A common denominator shared by the three was the early start to their careers at an age when most kids are sitting school exams.
By 18, Pele had won a World Cup, which mapped out the rest of a career, that until he was tempted out of retirement by the American dollar, was spent in Brazil.
Having been declared a National Treasure by the Brazilian government, Pele was never given the chance to test himself in European club football.
Unfortunately, both Maradona and Best were possessed by a self-destructive spirit, which left everyone unfulfilled and wanting more.
I feel privileged to be old enough to have seen Best play
From AC
Have your say on 606
Maradona had already scaled the footballing summit in winning the 1986 World Cup when he hit the slippery slope in 1994, testing positive for drugs.
Best walked out at the top of his game when he was 28, but the early start to his career still meant he had played 11 seasons for Manchester United in arguably the toughest league in the world.
However, when he left, he may have had his best years to come and for that reason, many will argue that Best gave up his right to be considered the best that ever was.
All three also refused to go quietly once in the twilight of their careers.
GEORGE BEST
37 caps, 9 goals for NI
European Cup winner 1968
Won 2 League titles with Man Utd
Man Utd debut at 17yrs, 4mths
Effectively retired from top class football at 28
Still managed 11 seasons in the top flight
Other clubs: Dunstable, Stockport, Cork Celtic, Fulham, Hibernian, Bournemouth, Brisbane Lions
Played in NASL with LA Aztecs, Fort Lauderdale, and San Jose
Pele paraded his fading skills for New York Cosmos in the cause of boosting soccer in the States, while Maradona tried to coax his unwilling body to one last hurrah with the likes of Newell's Old Boys.
Best's farewell tour included Dunstable, Stockport, Cork Celtic, Fulham (alongside Bobby Moore), Hibernian, Bournemouth and Brisbane Lions, and also took in a Stateside leg.
But the ridicule they risked in playing past their sell-by date should be excused given their services to the game as a whole.
So with all factors taken into consideration, is there a definitive answer to the question 'who was the best'?
Probably not.
But what is sure is that George Best earned his right to be mentioned in the same breath as Pele, Maradona and other greats too.
And Pele certainly had his idea of who the Best man was.
If I remember correctly, Pele denied (or at least clarified) that remark, which gets rehashed every time there's a discussion like this., at the time of Best's death. He said then that he thought that George was the best player playing in Europe at the time, and claimed that that was what he had said originally. In other words, Pele didn't think GB was the greatest.
Eamon Dunphy must be in the list.in his own mind,along with his sidekick Giles. ;)
1st = Maradona, Best, Messi
4th = Paddy McCourt
David May
Harry Kewell
Thomas Brolin
Alan Kernaghan
Robinho
Quote from: thejuice on January 27, 2012, 03:12:58 PM
Did Larry Reilly ever play soccer?
If so, then its him.
If not, well its hardly worth having a thread on this subject.
Larry Reilly never played soccer but he is still the best soccer player ever.
After Larry, the best (assuming best is most skillful) in my generation were
Messi and Zidane. Love(d) watching both of them play.
Dirk kuyt
Ronnie O'Brien
Ronaldo deserves to be included in this discussion. Missed the guts of three years through injury but came back every time to conquer the world. He was unplayable between '96 and '98 for Barca and then Inter. Whatever happened that night in Paris probaly cost Brazil the World Cup. Had it all though, pace to burn, a fantastic brain, without doubt the best finisher there's ever been and he worked hard.
All the other usual suspects deserve to be mentioned too, Meazza, Garrincha, Puskas, Pele, Best, Cryuff, Beckenbaur, Figueroa, Maradona, Platini, Van Basten, Baresi, Zidane and Messi.
Quote from: HiMucker on January 27, 2012, 03:53:00 PM
In champ man it was Ibrahima bakayoko
Must have been where Everton scouted him from. Missed a header from 6 yards out on his debut v Liverpool in the 1st minute and never recovered from it.
Ex-Walsall reserves and Larchfield Gardens, Kilrea, dribbling maestro...the one and only Brian Johnson. Dazzling to say the least, and with a Tennants Super in the right hand and an Embassy Regal in the left. ;)
A close second, Diego Armando Maradona.
In this order.
1 Trevor Francis
2 Kevin Francis
3 Maradona Francis
4 Messi Francis
5 Assisi Francis
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem
Sports Illustrated did an interesting piece on operating an NFL style draft but using all the best footballers from past or present.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/draft/ultimate/draft-results.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/draft/ultimate/draft-results.html)
Quote from: moysider on January 29, 2012, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem
And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2012, 06:03:20 PM
Quote from: moysider on January 29, 2012, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem
And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?
i was watching a documentary about Garrincha last week pretty sure it said Pele got injured in the group stages that year . Garrincha was player of the tournament it said he got 2 yellows against England in the Semis but still played in the Final (don't know how that happened) and scored 2 goals in the final. Even seeing the old clips he was some player . He had a foundness for the women and the beer he died aged 52 .
Quote from: the Deel Rover on January 29, 2012, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2012, 06:03:20 PM
Quote from: moysider on January 29, 2012, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem
And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?
i was watching a documentary about Garrincha last week pretty sure it said Pele got injured in the group stages that year . Garrincha was player of the tournament it said he got 2 yellows against England in the Semis but still played in the Final (don't know how that happened) and scored 2 goals in the final. Even seeing the old clips he was some player . He had a foundness for the women and the beer he died aged 52 .
He got injured because they kicked the living crap out of him. Back in those days there was no sympathy for anything other than amputation.
Brazil never lost any game that Pele and Garrincha started together . Teams were kicking lumps out of the pair of them .
Quote from: the Deel Rover on January 29, 2012, 07:23:54 PM
Brazil never lost any game that Pele and Garrincha started together . Teams were kicking lumps out of the pair of them .
Trying to in the case of Garrincha. I d say few got near him and he came up the hard way as well. People can talk about greatness but Brazilians called him The Joy of The People. It says a lot. That s a special kind of greatness that transcends sport and very few sportsmen ever had that. Garrincha got it from his own, and he made the lives of millions of bet-down people brighter. He was technically as good if not better than Best or Pele as well. Ok, he wasn t on the fleet street radar but British opinion is not the be all...... English press also used Pele to reflect glory back on themselves. England 1970 were a superior team than that that won in 66. I think most people would readily agree with that. The heat in Mexico did for them as much as Brazil did. England were brilliant that day it has to be said and it was written up as one of the great British glorious failures, like Gordon of Khartoum, Scott of the Antartic, Mallory, Light Brigade, etc. Pele was cast in the role of the noble antagonist - even though he did not exactly destroy them (the heat and daft management did).Lets face it, the hacks in the press don t rate the readers intelligence. To hell with Gerson and Revelino and Carlos Alberto - lets keep it simple and focus on four-letter Pele. Banks making a fine save from a Pele was the icing on the cake for a great story where everybody won... but not really.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_V6y5P050M
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4957302614168326714#
I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2012, 06:03:20 PM
Quote from: moysider on January 29, 2012, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem
And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?
Kicked up in the air once too often.
It s the thing that is emphasised every time those finals are mentioned. Pele being injured is the theme rather than Garrincha s brilliant tournament. It s the 'local' view. 4 years on and Eusebio is kicked up in the air by Nobby Stiles but the hatchet job is presented as
His tough performance resulted in Eusébio being practically nullified for the entire..... Nullified my hole.
The Argentinian captain Ratin was earlier sent off in the 66 tournament and Ramsey called the Argentinians 'animals'. Indeed. So much double standards. Pele gettin kicked is pesented as thuggery by the press while Eusebio has always been portrayed since as somebody that hadn t the stomach for it. Hmmmm.
And of course long haired Argies and 'Continentals' are untrustworty. Too flash, might fall down when kicked, and might use tactics and formations that we jolly well are not used too. Very unsporting altogether.
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2012, 11:51:47 PM
I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.
I m sure you can think for yourself. But I suspect that you re in a minority.
Quote from: moysider on January 30, 2012, 12:26:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2012, 11:51:47 PM
I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.
I m sure you can think for yourself. But I suspect that you re in a minority.
World Cup histories not (originally) written in English tend to be very different in content and focus from those originating from Fleet Street's finest.
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2012, 11:51:47 PM
I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.
That is a freedom you will never know, a bit like your County colleague Enda Heseltine.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on January 29, 2012, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2012, 06:03:20 PM
Quote from: moysider on January 29, 2012, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.
Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.
It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.
Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem
And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?
i was watching a documentary about Garrincha last week pretty sure it said Pele got injured in the group stages that year . Garrincha was player of the tournament it said he got 2 yellows against England in the Semis but still played in the Final (don't know how that happened) and scored 2 goals in the final. Even seeing the old clips he was some player . He had a foundness for the women and the beer he died aged 52 .
Remember reading that even in his last days in the hospital that nurses were fighting with each other to get a few minutes alone with him.
Didn't Pele get injured in the group stages in 1966 as well?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wyp-xT4sMU
He did indeed. Have a look at the above clip to see just what dirty f88ckers were about then. It's from the '62 world cup.
Now thats the way soccer should be played. Can you imagine some of the nancy boys now if it was still like that.