Just wondering if anyone else felt the Hurling Final was poor enough today??? Scrums of 6/7 men fighting for a ball all the time, the man in possession being molested by 4 opposing players and not getting a free and then the ref blowing him up for something innocuous when he loses it. I was also struck by the amount of stray hurls that went at a mans hand or his mid riff when he was holding on to the ball. Surely that's not allowed?
There were some decent moments like the Kilkenny gosl snd Tommy Walsh in the air but there seems to be a lot more negativity than there used to be and I have to say I didn't enjoy that as much as previous finals.
Anyone else any views?
They might as well not bother having a ref at all in hurling.
probably a bit of an anti-climax compared to the last 2 years, but still not bad all the same, though after last sunday, anything would have done me !!
I never really got going, the backs seemed to be winning all the 1 on 1 duals. Were plenty of good scores, just a pity Tipp didn't get a bit closer earlier and we would have had a great finish.
Good game but far from a classic. The minor game was poor final hopefully the other finals Dublin are involved in will be better.
Yeah, thought it was pretty average. Agree with Jinxy too, hurling is now a sport without rules.
Quote from: Zulu on September 04, 2011, 10:05:32 PM
Yeah, thought it was pretty average. Agree with Jinxy too, hurling is now a sport without rules.
I thought Gavin was poor, and was hard on Kilkenny.
Hurling referees are definitely more lenient. If you hit a hurling ref across the nose with a hurley you don't even get as much as a ticking while if you hit a football ref's notebook you get a long suspension :P
The refereeing in hurling is definitely strange.
I commented after last year's final that the ref doesn't use his whistle so much to blow up for a foul, but as to signal a rest period after a particularly frantic piece of action. This year's final was even more of this persuasion.
Personally, I prefer this style to football's over-zealous approach to refereeing. The game does flow better, and the players are more "manly" for it; they actually do play to the whistle. When things are particularly frantic, it seems that the spirit of freeflowing action means that even technical fouls such as throwing the ball, taking too many steps, or lifting it off the ground, are rarely called. The best thing though is that nobody seems to complain. If a man takes five steps in football, all his opponents stop what they're meant to be doing and make a charge to inform the referee. Which is wrong.
I know as much about hurling as I do about relative theory, but I wasn't that impressed by the game itself. Power's goal was simply sublime, while a couple of the points that Tipp's midfielders got were amazing. Your man Walsh was brilliant, a proper edgy but skilful bastard if every you wanted one. Reminds me of Paul Galvin.
But I never got the feeling that Tipp could win it. They never seemed to realise that lumping aimless ball into their full-forwards was playing into Kilkenny's hands. The last five minutes seemed to me like a comical macho "I can puck the ball further than you" contest, with no thought, no skill – just an utter reliance on long ball luck. If Kilkenny had a weakness yesterday, it was facing up to halfbacks and midfielders carrying the ball at them, but Tipp never gave it a rattle.
Just to finish, the sideline cut is still one of the most nonsensical things I have ever seen in sport. It simply doesn't present an opportunity to retain possession in a meaningful way, and the game would be better off with an Aussie Rules style throw-in over the head by a linesman.
Wise up about the side line cut that point yesterday was a sublime skill that should be appreciated all the more . If these things were practised more like Joe Canning they would result in more scores one of the greatest skills of hurling . I thought the game was played at a high intensity from start to finish and i enjoyed it . Footballers should take a leaf out of these lads books and learn how to give and take hits without lying down crying
NP, I've never been at a hurling training session in my life, but I could imagine that before and after every juvenile session, all they do is practice sideline cuts - in the same way that "45 practice" is an "essential" part of a training session for so many corner backs. In truth, the skill involved in both is simply beyond most players, even most top players.
While you might marvel at the 1 in 100 that sail over in top-flight hurling, I can't help thinking that the sheer skill levels involved make it as good as an impossibility for most hurlers, thereby making it a completely random restart function, rather than one with an advantage.
With regard to your other point about players not lying down, this has more to do with the way the games are refereed than the way they are played. Football's more officious style means that players expect to get awarded frees for nothing and for everything. As such, they'll do what they can to gain one. In hurling, where frees are gold dust, the players have to remain focused on playing the game at all times.
Brian Gavin interviewed on Midlands Radio after the game. It's nice to hear the refs chatting about the games too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHW6OzvWC6g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHW6OzvWC6g)
Quote from: thewobbler on September 05, 2011, 12:38:01 PM
NP, I've never been at a hurling training session in my life, but I could imagine that before and after every juvenile session, all they do is practice sideline cuts - in the same way that "45 practice" is an "essential" part of a training session for so many corner backs. In truth, the skill involved in both is simply beyond most players, even most top players.
While you might marvel at the 1 in 100 that sail over in top-flight hurling, I can't help thinking that the sheer skill levels involved make it as good as an impossibility for most hurlers, thereby making it a completely random restart function, rather than one with an advantage.
With regard to your other point about players not lying down, this has more to do with the way the games are refereed than the way they are played. Football's more officious style means that players expect to get awarded frees for nothing and for everything. As such, they'll do what they can to gain one. In hurling, where frees are gold dust, the players have to remain focused on playing the game at all times.
Very good point. The fact that a free can be converted from 60-70 yards easy enough by top players means most of the pitch is out of bounds for fouling thus making it a better game and not riddled by persistent fouling as a core tactic.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 05, 2011, 11:26:45 AM
The refereeing in hurling is definitely strange.
I commented after last year's final that the ref doesn't use his whistle so much to blow up for a foul, but as to signal a rest period after a particularly frantic piece of action. This year's final was even more of this persuasion.
Personally, I prefer this style to football's over-zealous approach to refereeing. The game does flow better, and the players are more "manly" for it; they actually do play to the whistle. When things are particularly frantic, it seems that the spirit of freeflowing action means that even technical fouls such as throwing the ball, taking too many steps, or lifting it off the ground, are rarely called. The best thing though is that nobody seems to complain. If a man takes five steps in football, all his opponents stop what they're meant to be doing and make a charge to inform the referee. Which is wrong.
I know as much about hurling as I do about relative theory, but I wasn't that impressed by the game itself. Power's goal was simply sublime, while a couple of the points that Tipp's midfielders got were amazing. Your man Walsh was brilliant, a proper edgy but skilful b**tard if every you wanted one. Reminds me of Paul Galvin.
But I never got the feeling that Tipp could win it. They never seemed to realise that lumping aimless ball into their full-forwards was playing into Kilkenny's hands. The last five minutes seemed to me like a comical macho "I can puck the ball further than you" contest, with no thought, no skill – just an utter reliance on long ball luck. If Kilkenny had a weakness yesterday, it was facing up to halfbacks and midfielders carrying the ball at them, but Tipp never gave it a rattle.
Just to finish, the sideline cut is still one of the most nonsensical things I have ever seen in sport. It simply doesn't present an opportunity to retain possession in a meaningful way, and the game would be better off with an Aussie Rules style throw-in over the head by a linesman.
Congratulations Wobbler.
This might just be the daftest idea ever. :D
By the way, the ref swallowing his whistle doesn't make the game more free-flowing.
Some amount of rucks and mauls yesterday.
Jinxy, I'm like a fat American tourist when it comes to hurling. I understand the concept because it's based on the same structures as football, but I find some of it quite bizarre (like why anyone would actually want to play a game where you can get hit by a stick).
The pause and expectations that arise from a sideline ball are rarely, rarely warranted. It's mad that a game in which all other aspects of it are universal in the use of your hands as well as the stick, are put to the side for these restarts.
They should reward the skill with 2 points for striking it directly over.
Plenty of lads around that can do it.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 05, 2011, 12:58:59 PM
They should reward the skill with 2 points for striking it directly over.
Plenty of lads around that can do it.
Wasn't that an experimental rule at one point?
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 05, 2011, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 05, 2011, 12:58:59 PM
They should reward the skill with 2 points for striking it directly over.
Plenty of lads around that can do it.
Wasn't that an experimental rule at one point?
At 2 points :P
Quote from: Minder on September 04, 2011, 10:08:36 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 04, 2011, 10:05:32 PM
Yeah, thought it was pretty average. Agree with Jinxy too, hurling is now a sport without rules.
I thought Gavin was poor, and was hard on Kilkenny.
I thought he was good, consistent and let the game flow, yes he was picky on over carrying at times but as I said consistent. Ulster refs take note.
What does letting the game flow mean? Ignoring numerous fouls?
Quote from: spuds on September 05, 2011, 02:53:13 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 05, 2011, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 05, 2011, 12:58:59 PM
They should reward the skill with 2 points for striking it directly over.
Plenty of lads around that can do it.
Wasn't that an experimental rule at one point?
At 2 points :P
Har de har har. ;D
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 03:07:02 PM
What does letting the game flow mean? Ignoring numerous fouls?
Pretty much.
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 03:07:02 PM
What does letting the game flow mean? Ignoring numerous fouls?
That's what he did, he was very inconsistent in what he blew for and what he didn't.
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 03:07:02 PM
What does letting the game flow mean? Ignoring numerous fouls?
I believe if you listen carefully the official GAA term is "he
left the game flow"
To my mind, letting the game flow means turning a blind eye to the small stuff but blowing the big stuff i.e. lads swinging out of you when you're trying to play the ball.
The amount of times a Tipp player caught the ball in the 2nd half only to land and be jumped on by 3 KK lads was ridiculous.
Very frustrating to watch.
You'd think they'd have the dacency to let the Tipp lad alone to go off and do his thing instead of harassing the poor devil. :D
Like Waterford in the Munster final.
Once players know they are unlikely to get a free easily they make a big effort to play the ball. A player with 2 fellas on his back hauling him to the deck will still make a diving handpass to get it away.
The way football is policed these days, players go to ground looking for the free as soon as they feel the breath of an opponent.
Because the hurling genepool is much smaller there is less demand for penalities on tough/rough play. Also the elite counties are probably the ones who master it best. If Limerick or Wexford or Galway started to beat the big three in All Irelands by out toughing them, then there would be calls for a clamp down.
Take the Tommy Walsh hit on the ref yesterday. If something similar happened in football - we'll say Paul Galvin swinging a boot to kick an opponent and connecting with the ref's shin instead, there would be holy war.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on September 05, 2011, 09:26:54 PM
Once players know they are unlikely to get a free easily they make a big effort to play the ball. A player with 2 fellas on his back hauling him to the deck will still make a diving handpass to get it away.
The way football is policed these days, players go to ground looking for the free as soon as they feel the breath of an opponent.
Because the hurling genepool is much smaller there is less demand for penalities on tough/rough play. Also the elite counties are probably the ones who master it best. If Limerick or Wexford or Galway started to beat the big three in All Irelands by out toughing them, then there would be calls for a clamp down.
Take the Tommy Walsh hit on the ref yesterday. If something similar happened in football - we'll say Paul Galvin swinging a boot to kick an opponent and connecting with the ref's shin instead, there would be holy war.
Certainly a lot of the senior championship games are referred very differently to what you'd see elsewhere and TBH the games better for it.
The players seem to be more accepting that they're going to get the odd belt or two and plough on regardless. If that was a club game in the north, there'd be full scale ructions for half the stuff let go on sunday, so maybe referee's aren't as inclined to let it go as it'll mean the game getting out of hand.
What comes first, the chicken or the egg?
In the minor game, one of the Galway forwards was clotheslined by a Dublin lad and he jumped right up rather than make a meal of it, heartening to see.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 05, 2011, 12:49:28 PM
By the way, the ref swallowing his whistle doesn't make the game more free-flowing.
Some amount of rucks and mauls yesterday.
I agree ,yet there never seems to be any discussion (ever) with all the pundits having the same views .