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Tyrones Philip Jordan has announced his retirement from intercounty football this evening,he informed Mickey Harte of his decision this afternoon.

Hope not.

Definitely true,will be headlines in the papers 2moro i can assure you.

Do you know why?

Ziggy?

I do,but i`m sure you`ll read about it the coming days.He owes tyrone nothing he`s achieved everything he possibly can in the last 10yrs.

Quote from: Hardy on April 04, 2011, 07:12:03 PM
Ziggy?

Ziggys in the wrong end of tyrone 2 have scooped this 1.

Great player for Tyrone over the years, they will miss him if this is the case

Great f*cking news lads!

Brilliant player. Best player in the squad last year and arguably most consistent performer 03-10. Man of steel.

wow  :o

Quote from: ONeill on April 04, 2011, 07:47:57 PM
Brilliant player. Best player in the squad last year and arguably most consistent performer 03-10. Man of steel.

Indeed. The only man to start EVERY championship game under Mickey Harte if I'm not mistaken.

Jordan's contribution to the 2003 final.

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5012/diamuid2.jpg)

Is this definately true?

Tyrone's best player last year. Aside from Tomas O'Se I'd say he's one of the best, if not the best, wing half backs of the last 10 years at least.

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on April 04, 2011, 08:31:48 PM
Definitely true. A great servant for Tyrone.

Begrudgingly agreed on the great servant bit. Whilst he wouldnt have made it onto the 2002 Armagh team, he would have been a regular after McCann retired.

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on April 04, 2011, 08:31:48 PM
Definitely true. A great servant for Tyrone.

A very understated tribute - usually reserved for the journeymen.

A Tyrone legend might be more apt.

A class act he was in the tyrone shirt. but as a derry man im glad to see the back af him

Savage player.
If he has retired, he's gone out at the top of his game and I'm glad he didn't wait till after Sunday!

Is this confirmed as true?

Class act. Tyrone's Mr Consistant since 2003. Sometimes that term is used for players who don't stand out throughout their career. Not so for Jordan.  In the top 3 players most years for Tyrone. Will be sorely missed. 

I'm sure Mickey will unearth another no.7 to replace him quickly enough  ::)

move on lads, nothing to see here  :P

Mr Consistent has been his main label over the past 10 years and he has come back time and time again from bad injuries but it sounds like it has all caught up with him this time and he has possibly been advised to not play any more.

Shame on those who aren't man enough to admit he has been one of the best wing backs over the past 10 years and has shown a great will to win. He's a tough nut too but was never purposely a dirty player.
I think if he didn't live so near the Armagh border he wouldn't haven't had the same hatred towards him from the Apple Munchers.

Thanks Phillip for your huge efforts for the Red Hand cause and I hope you enjoy your club football should you play on.

Shocked to hear this news, totally out of the blue. The 'Tyrone' model encapsulated in one player. A legend whose true worth and brilliance will mature with the years. A testament to the man is that I can't pick out a bad championship performance through out the last decade or so. My highlight was his performance versus Wexford in 08 semi final, superb.

Fair play to Philip Jordan. A class act.

However, a strange time to retire after working his way back to full fitness after a bad injury? 

Strange timing?

Sorry to hear that great player on a great team always gave his all a player i admired and enjoyed watching

Strange timing for us cos we don't know why yet but maybe it will all make sense when it all comes out.

He's the second Moy man to retire now in the last year.

Stunned by this news: was looking forward to another tip-top Championship season from him, after his successful return yesterday.

He owes Tyrone absolutely nothing; what a fantastic player he has been over the last 14 years, at all levels. A massive loss.

I remember there was talk last year that he wanted to give a few years good service to his club when he was still on top of his game. All-Irelands and All-stars on the mantlepiece, it really is the mark of the man. Unquestionably my favourite player over the last 8 years. I am gutted at this news. f**king properly depressed I am.... I can only hope that this leaves an opening for Justy to move further up the park.

Surprising news all right. Was he not on the bench yesterday?

Was probably Tyrones best player last year and 1 of the best wingbacks over the last 15 years (2003 theatrics aside).

http://www.teamtalkmag.com/?p=3973

Jordan Contemplating Retirement?

One of the most pleasing things about Sunday's win over Kildare was the sight of 2010 All Star Philip Jordan returning to action. The Moy defender deservedly picked up an All Star award last year with a string of fine performances for the county team but after picking up a niggly injury he had been rehabilitating with a view to making his return to the panel as soon as he was fully fit.

Sunday was to be the day as the dynamic wing back entered the game with fifteen minutes to go and looked as if he had lost none of his energy and class. Jordan was joined on the pitch shortly after by Brian Dooher who was also returning from a long injury lay off. Both players received fantastic receptions from the large crowd and all Tyrone supporters were delighted to see two such talented and hugely experienced stalwarts back in the fold.

However if the latest rumours are to be believed it seems a distinct possibility that Sunday's substitute appearance against Kildare may well have been Philip Jordan's last game for Tyrone. We sincerely hope that is not the case as Jordan was by far Tyrone's outstanding defender in 2011 and still has lots to offer at county level. Perhaps it is time for Brian Dooher to have a chat with Philip and convince him of his importance to this panel and to put all thoughts of retirement to the back of his mind until next year at least.

Jordan has been IMO the reason for the success. A go to player if ever there was one. Cool on the ball, great vision, an engine to die for and to top it of he is as level headed with no airs nor graces.

He was meant to retire in 08 and stayed on to attempt the two in a row. Again in 09 he was meant to pull the plug but was persuaded top stay on. 2010 was gutting for all but I think it hit Jordan more than anyone can imagine. Im looking forward to seeing him with the club in every game although the posts mentioning a possible medical decision for his withdrawal is very worrying.

Great player, always admired his dedication to the cause.

Would agree with all posts on his greatness, as important to Tyrone as T. O'Se is to Kerry

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0exKbdPgPfo) interview last year shows it's a decision he has toyed with in the past.

Hopefully when I wake up in the morning that this is a wind up and not true.

We may get used to the drip drip of retirements from that team over the next two years.

Considering that he's tied with his clubmate Sean as second only to Canavan in terms of All Stars won in Tyrone with 4, it is fair to say that Jordan is among the greats of Tyrone football.

Outstanding player and one of the best to ever wear a Tyrone jersey. Hopefully it's only a rumour and he'll be back in the summer months. If not, he can be asked for no more, he gave his all to Tyrone for many a year.

As to why I didn't scoop this news, well I was in the inbred county today on business, so missed it.

This would be a fair blow for the coming year - Jordan in my opinion is one of the greatest players ever to pull on aTyrone jersey. With Tomas o Se probably the best wing back to grace the game - i hope this isnt true and we get one more season out of him.

He will be a loss if true, great player in his day, but you cant blame players getting out after 10 years or more , its a huge commitment to play for any county and espeically at a level like Tyrone have been at.

Smashing player and will be missed. Best of luck to him

Quote from: up tyrone on April 04, 2011, 07:03:54 PM
Definitely true,will be headlines in the papers 2moro i can assure you.

Can anyone confirm this news is official or still a rumour?
Is it any newspaper or news bulletin?

I fear for these boys being let into society now without any proper experience of living normally.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 05, 2011, 10:17:30 AM

Quote from: up tyrone on April 04, 2011, 07:03:54 PM
Definitely true,will be headlines in the papers 2moro i can assure you.

Can anyone confirm this news is official or still a rumour?
Is it any newspaper or news bulletin?

I saw on Twitter last night, a local journalist asked Cathal McCarron and he knew nothing about it.

Quote from: ziggysego on April 05, 2011, 10:25:33 AM

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 05, 2011, 10:17:30 AM

Quote from: up tyrone on April 04, 2011, 07:03:54 PM
Definitely true,will be headlines in the papers 2moro i can assure you.

Can anyone confirm this news is official or still a rumour?
Is it any newspaper or news bulletin?

i asked a different squad member this morning and he knew nothing of it either.

I saw on Twitter last night, a local journalist asked Cathal McCarron and he knew nothing about it.

http://twitter.com/bbcchampionship/status/55191578096050176 (http://twitter.com/bbcchampionship/status/55191578096050176)

BBC Championship has it on their twitter page.

Will go down as a Tyrone great. One of the very best attacking half backs in the modern game. Came in for a lot of abuse from those who had to blame someone for their own inadequacies, much of it unwarranted. Almost became like a pantomine villan.  However i would doubt he has any regrets in his football career with his haul of Celtic crosses and All Stars.

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=145717 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=145717)

Oh I do like your posts Bensars.

I'd say a lot of the media depend on the board for leaked stories and then they follow them up with a ? Mark to cover their lazy asses.

I'd say PJ doesn't fancy another year of getting niggly injuries and having to train alone with Dooher.
I'd say Brian was on the phone to him all night. What does Philly work at?
Has he kids?

He works at donnelly motors beside the stangmore roundabout the last time i heard....savage player and an all round nice guy....players like this decisions should never be questioned as im sure he has thought about it a whole lot more than any of us have.....Thanks Philly for everything!!

There's always the chance that he has been given a couple of days to rethink, after an initial decision.

UTV are reporting he is 'considering' retirement.

Quote from: bigfrank on April 05, 2011, 12:43:46 PM
He works at donnelly motors beside the stangmore roundabout the last time i heard....savage player and an all round nice guy....players like this decisions should never be questioned as im sure he has thought about it a whole lot more than any of us have.....Thanks Philly for everything!!

Not winding just curious no doubt he is a superb footballer but I do remember sitting in the Bot one day watching the International Rules match when he got taken out, the whole bar jumped up screaming about the foul before all sitting down again when they realised it was Jordan almost as if to say it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.  With all the platitudes on here why was he so disliked outside of Tyrone? The incident in 2003 aside had he a bad reputation outside (or maybe inside) Tyrone because I cant remember anything else in his game to warrant the hatred, he always seemed a hard but not a dirty player

To me it was only the Armagh lads that didn't like him as he lived so near the border and went to school in Armagh and then they would argue he cost them their two in a row with his "DIVING" antics.

I think the rest of Ulster didn't mind him that much as you can see on here.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 05, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
To me it was only the Armagh lads that didn't like him as he lived so near the border and went to school in Armagh and then they would argue he cost them their two in a row with his "DIVING" antics.

I think the rest of Ulster didn't mind him that much as you can see on here.

+1

as a down man admired him with envy, hard but fair player, exceptional athlete and forever in my mind will GAA summers of the noughties be trademarked by him embarking on another high speed solo down the wings of clones or croker to push tryone perilously close to Down's 5 titles, thank fu*k he's retiring  :P

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 05, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
To me it was only the Armagh lads that didn't like him as he lived so near the border and went to school in Armagh and then they would argue he cost them their two in a row with his "DIVING" antics.

I think the rest of Ulster didn't mind him that much as you can see on here.

Although its abated a little in recent years I would have heard a lot of similar comments from men all over the country down through the years I presume its down to jealously as much as anything else

Philip retires as an all time great of Tyrone and gaelic football. Hes probably been my favourite footballer of the last 10 years, knowing when to go for the jugular and onto the front foot and when to hold the line - a true exponent of the Tyrone "total football" game.   To me his best performance for Tyrone was in an under 21 final in Sligo, his best point in the 05 ai final, but there were so many good moments - in fact it was all good from Philip.   As good a half back as ever existed in the game, Philip is as modest a lad as you will ever talk to.  Disappointed to hear this but Id respect any decision he would make as it would be well thought out.  Tyrone loss is Moys gain.   

Ronan McNabb would be a ready made replacement, if he could get free from injury, a very similar player to Jordan

I think u mean his fellow club mate Ryan Mellon and i think it was three points....he has also retired......they both play for Moy GFC...same club as sean cavanagh....

Peter Harte is well capable of playing in the half back line.

Maybe he needs a bit more time to spend with Miss O'Neill? This football takes up alot of a man's time  ???

A quite brilliant player with so much drive, dynacism and determination, he was a sight to behold at times constantly driving forward.

He epitomised a core of players who kept Tyrone in the top tier of counties for the last decade.

Someone like him wouldnt have taken a massive decision like this lightly, he walks away with the head held high.

This should serve notice to Tyrone fans (and to be honest to anyone who recognises quality players) to savour the remaining games McGuigan, Gormley, Dooher et al of Jordans era play at the highest level as the time is coming that these legends will depart.

I hope he goes on to enjoy a few years with his club.

As an Armagh man i have admired several Tyrone players; Peter Canavan, Eugene McKenna, Fay Devlin, Sean Cavanagh. I recognise that phillip Jordan was a ver good player but he does not have my admiration. probably like many Armagh supporters when i think of him i think of him falling like a ronaldo's sister in 2003 final after he was the one who made a tear for Diarmuid Marsden. Seeing a grown man rolling on the ground holding his face after hardly being touched was embarrassing.
No matter what he did in the years following that i could not look at him without scowling. Hope he continuesto have a good club career and is prob a nice lad, but for me what sticks out is him diving it made me sick and still does.

will be a miss for Tyrone.

Quote from: Orior on April 04, 2011, 07:59:22 PM
Jordan's contribution to the 2003 final.

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5012/diamuid2.jpg)

Some follow through from Marsden after his punch.

Must have done a bit of boxing in his earlier days !

Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Cowardly is not a way I'd describe Philly. Very far from it.

At least all those outside of Armagh can appreciate his greatness.


Time to build the bridge lads.

Jordan was a very good footballer for Tyrone and made many excellent contributions to their cause down through the years, but ffs lads a legend he aint. Legendary status is bandied about too often these days.

Was an integral part of a GREAT team.

Armagh men and their excuses!! Get over it! Jordan was a wonderful player, a joy to watch. 4 all stars and 3 all irelands, some collection alongside his underage medals.

Quote from: Mid Down Gael on April 05, 2011, 09:51:32 PM
Armagh men and their excuses!! Get over it! Jordan was a wonderful player, a joy to watch. 4 all stars and 3 all irelands, some collection alongside his underage medals.

+1



keep working on that bridge.

excuses!? Wheres the excuses? and for what?

Quote from: you take er! on April 05, 2011, 09:29:39 PM
As an Armagh man i have admired several Tyrone players; Peter Canavan, Eugene McKenna, Fay Devlin, Sean Cavanagh. I recognise that phillip Jordan was a ver good player but he does not have my admiration. probably like many Armagh supporters when i think of him i think of him falling like a ronaldo's sister in 2003 final after he was the one who made a tear for Diarmuid Marsden. Seeing a grown man rolling on the ground holding his face after hardly being touched was embarrassing.
No matter what he did in the years following that i could not look at him without scowling. Hope he continuesto have a good club career and is prob a nice lad, but for me what sticks out is him diving it made me sick and still does.

will be a miss for Tyrone.

Marsden assaulted him-disgraceful antics from him. Who did Marsden think he was-Neil Lennon? Same breeding i suppose.

Talking about dives-a bit rich from the orchard "faithful"-what about O'Rourke's 5.5 after being flicked by Mulligans boot in 05 or his older brother doing the peek a boo act when lying down in the build up to the penalty.

To the Armagh faithful-dont throw those stones you bitter bitter men.

Defenders never get the recognition they deserve. Fact is Jordan could have played from 2-15. He was that good that he was never considered being dropped/rotated/played out of position.

The number 7 has his IMO will take something very special to fill it.

What is his roll of honour anyway for Tyrone from youth to senior?

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 05, 2011, 09:46:42 PM
Jordan was a very good footballer for Tyrone and made many excellent contributions to their cause down through the years, but ffs lads a legend he aint. Legendary status is bandied about too often these days.

If you are to use the label 'legend' at all then he most definitely is a Tyrone legend. This man as 4 All-Stars, 3 All-Irelands, 2 NFLs and arguably their most consistent performer for eight years. He outshines any wing back in Tyrone GAA history and is up there with the best Ulster has ever seen. What do you disagree with there?

Quote from: ONeill on April 05, 2011, 10:01:59 PM

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 05, 2011, 09:46:42 PM
Jordan was a very good footballer for Tyrone and made many excellent contributions to their cause down through the years, but ffs lads a legend he aint. Legendary status is bandied about too often these days.

If you are to use the label 'legend' at all then he most definitely is a Tyrone legend. This man as 4 All-Stars, 3 All-Irelands, 2 NFLs and arguably their most consistent performer for eight years. He outshines any wing back in Tyrone GAA history and is up there with the best Ulster has ever seen. What do you disagree with there?

You simply can't disagree with anything there. The man was / is a legend of the game.

Armagh men are showing their class on this thread.  Disgraceful commentry on an amzing career.  How many Armagh players have won 4 all stars?

Jesus, you Armagh ones take the biscuit. Let-it-go!

Just personal opinion, i dont think of him as a legend or a geat of the game at all.
He has a fantastic personal haul of accolades which is hard to argue with but when or if someone were to ask me about the greats or legends of football in Ireland his name isnt one that automatically springs to my mind. Just my own opinion, not trying to stir. As a side point i personally think the allstars is a seriously flawed system.
And im not an Armagh man either.

Glad to see the back of him

(http://www.moy-gfc.com/images/philipjordan.jpg)

www.moy-gfc.com (http://www.moy-gfc.com)

A fine footballer who made Tyrone all the stronger when he played-will be a difficult player to replace. Can't blame him if he wants to devote more time to his club. A brilliant inter-county career with 3 Celtic Crosses and 4 All Stars. Owes Tyrone nothing.

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 05, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Spot on. Nothing but a cheat.

(http://www.musicwithease.com/violin-and-bow-10.gif)

Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 05, 2011, 10:44:34 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 05, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Spot on. Nothing but a cheat.

He may have took a dive that day but he's certainly not 'nothing but a cheat'.
The best half back I've seen in Ulster (last 15 years). Second only to Tomas O Se in the country this last decade.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 05, 2011, 10:44:34 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 05, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Spot on. Nothing but a cheat.

Any Armagh supporter who follows this train of thought would have to be prepared to call Francie Bellew a cheat as well. They both done the same thing.

As a Derryman it can be hard to be objective about Tyrone footballers but you would be hard pressed to find many better footballers who played in Jordan's position over the last 20 years. He will be hard to replace and could be the first of 5/6 who are coming near the end of their time.

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 05, 2011, 10:12:55 PM
Just personal opinion, i dont think of him as a legend or a geat of the game at all.
He has a fantastic personal haul of accolades which is hard to argue with but when or if someone were to ask me about the greats or legends of football in Ireland his name isnt one that automatically springs to my mind. Just my own opinion, not trying to stir. As a side point i personally think the allstars is a seriously flawed system.
And im not an Armagh man either.

Throw out a few names there of half backs who, in your opinion, were much better wing backs.

I'd argue Tomas O'Se was an equal but I'd also understand those who claim Tomas was a better player in their opinion.

Personally, I'd have Jordan ahead of Curran, De Paor, Meehan, Ryan and Davis.

I'd imagine Paidi and Spillane were ahead but cannot judge that.

Quote from: ONeill on April 05, 2011, 11:09:15 PM

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 05, 2011, 10:12:55 PM
Just personal opinion, i dont think of him as a legend or a geat of the game at all.
He has a fantastic personal haul of accolades which is hard to argue with but when or if someone were to ask me about the greats or legends of football in Ireland his name isnt one that automatically springs to my mind. Just my own opinion, not trying to stir. As a side point i personally think the allstars is a seriously flawed system.
And im not an Armagh man either.

Throw out a few names there of half backs who, in your opinion, were much better wing backs.

I'd argue Tomas O'Se was an equal but I'd also understand those who claim Tomas was a better player in their opinion.

Personally, I'd have Jordan ahead of Curran, De Paor, Meehan, Ryan and Davis.

I'd imagine Paidi and Spillane were ahead but cannot judge that.

He was no Johnny McGurk!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5226/5593702806_17765d65da_b.jpg)

Moy County contingent now down to 2.

Great pic O'Neill-but the thing that will stick in my mind so vividly is his reaction after the 2005 all-ireland semi in a game where he didnt have his best day at the office and was replace with 5 to go. Boy, he looked like he enjoyed that victory more than any other.

Great timing by Philly too, by holding out so long the starred games were already assigned. We will now have him available against the teams who have 3/4 county players. (Dromore, Omagh etc.)

 :D

Quote from: ziggysego on April 05, 2011, 10:45:37 PM
(http://www.musicwithease.com/violin-and-bow-10.gif)

Ziggy.....that violin is way too BIG! ;D

Tomás O'Sé was a better attacker. Jordan would concede nothing in every other aspect and was probably better overall imho..

Top, top player who delivered for his county and would start on any team in any era.

Seán Óg, Anthony Rainbow, Geraghty in his early days.

Football half backs tend to be slightly ignored versus their hurling cousins (e,g. Seanie Mc, Ken McGrath [yes he played many positions], Sean Óg Ó'Halpín, Tommy Walsh, JJ, Peter Barry). Jordan deserves to mentioned in any of that company.

Remember the pin point (satelitte guided quite possibly) pass into Mulligan who in turn feeded Canavan for the goal in 2005?

Great memories Philly.

Yes a great player on a great team. Think the 4 all-stars speak for themselves!

Tyrone manager Mickey Harte has dismissed talk that defender Philip Jordan has retired, stating that it is merely Internet gossip.

Jordan made his first appearance for the Red Hand this year in the win over Kildare at the weekend, having recovered from a lengthy pre-season deemed necessary following a debilitating hip injury 18 months ago.

However, on Tuesday, a Wikipedia entry on Jordan stated that he had quit the panel, but Harte was quick to point out that this is not the case.

Speaking in The Examiner, the Tyrone boss said: 'That's not true regarding his retirement. It's an Internet thing at the minute, there's no other story to it.'

From D'Paper:

TYRONE manager Mickey Harte claims internet gossip is to blame for reports that All Star defender Philip Jordan has retired.

Jordan, 30, made his first appearance of the season as a sub in last Sunday's win over Kildare after an extended winter break and personal rehabilitation programme. The three-time All-Ireland medallist took a similar break early last year following hip surgery and just last week claimed that he felt 'fresh' after the time off.

However, less than 24 hours after the victory over Kildare which strengthened Tyrone's promotion bid ahead of this weekend's final round of games, a local website dedicated to Tyrone GAA cast doubt on Jordan's future.

According to the website article, 'If the latest rumours are to be believed it seems a distinct possibility that Sunday's substitute appearance against Kildare may well have been Philip Jordan's last game for Tyrone'.

Sources in Tyrone claim that Jordan will consider his situation this week and it's understood that he wasn't present for county training last night.

Jordan was unavailable for comment throughout yesterday but boss Harte left little room for uncertainty, insisting that the Moy club man is still very much part of the panel and blamed internet users for the rumours.

"That's not true (regarding retirement), it's an internet thing at the minute, there's no other story to it," said a clearly irritated Harte.

It's hardly the best preparation for Sunday's final round League tie in Navan where Tyrone must beat Meath, and hope Donegal do them a favour against Laois, to gain promotion back to the top flight. Asked if Jordan is available for the game, Harte replied: "He's fit and ready to go next weekend".

Awwww that explains why Ziggy didn't get this scoop.

Ziggy doesn't deal in rumours.

Quote from: ONeill on April 06, 2011, 09:08:28 AM
However, on Tuesday, a Wikipedia entry on Jordan stated that he had quit the panel,

I was amused to see Hogan Stand quote Wikipedia as a source in their Jordan story yesterday.

Quote from: up tyrone on April 04, 2011, 07:03:54 PM
Definitely true,will be headlines in the papers 2moro i can assure you.

I notice that the original poster of this rumour has not made a comment since the first page, despite the thread running to seven pages.

Okay UPTyrone, how about you come out of hiding and tell us where you heard this from now that the manager has denied it?

It seems rumours of any sort are not tolerated in Antrim.


http://www.antrimgaa.net/guestbook/
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ee139c0bc87f123a5a31d2b68186b8f6dde477d366c2a065511562ec2d141b546g.jpg)

Quote from: oakleafgael on April 05, 2011, 11:00:22 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 05, 2011, 10:44:34 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 05, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Spot on. Nothing but a cheat.

Any Armagh supporter who follows this train of thought would have to be prepared to call Francie Bellew a cheat as well. They both done the same thing.
As a Derryman it can be hard to be objective about Tyrone footballers but you would be hard pressed to find many better footballers who played in Jordan's position over the last 20 years. He will be hard to replace and could be the first of 5/6 who are coming near the end of their time.

what are you on about man. When did francie ever dive on the ground to get someone sent off, francie maybe stepped over the line a few times throughout his career most notably against Mickey Linden but would never have purposely tried to get another man sent off. In my eyes this is the most cowardly and hateful thing a player can do and Jordan did this in the most important of matches. I have to admit Jordan has been a brilliant player over the years but his career will forever be tarnished by this despicable act.

Francie dived against Cavan to get I think the great Larry Reilly sent off a few years ago.

Quote from: liihb on April 06, 2011, 10:43:11 AM
Francie dived against Cavan to get I think the great Larry Reilly sent off a few years ago.

1st minute of 2004 ulster championship match v cavan pearse mckenna was rightly sent off for striking Francie. Have video of the match in house a definate sending off. Marsden sending off was later recinded.

yrone manager Mickey Harte says there is no truth in the speculation that four-time All Star Philip Jordan has played his last game for the county.

Jordan played his first inter-county game of 2011 as a second half substitute in the win over Kildare last weekend.

A little over 24 hours later, rumours started to gain traction that the Moy clubman - who required a lengthy pre-season preparation due to the after-effects of a hip operation 18 months ago - was contemplating calling it a day.


BBC Northern Ireland Sport's Twitter account stated that Jordan had indeed retired from inter-county football, but Harte insists that the reports were just idle gossip.

"That's not true," he is quoted in the Irish Examiner. "It's an internet thing at the minute, there's no other story to it. He's fit and ready to go next weekend."

This little topic comes up every so often and I'm always intrigued how the neutrals viewed it.

Are most Armagh men saying that Jordan charged at Marsden in a state of rage and Marsden swung but never made contact or that Jordan over reacted to the punch?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/12974275.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/12974275.stm)

Quote from: orchard 8195 on April 06, 2011, 10:34:34 AM

Quote from: oakleafgael on April 05, 2011, 11:00:22 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 05, 2011, 10:44:34 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 05, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Spot on. Nothing but a cheat.

Any Armagh supporter who follows this train of thought would have to be prepared to call Francie Bellew a cheat as well. They both done the same thing.
As a Derryman it can be hard to be objective about Tyrone footballers but you would be hard pressed to find many better footballers who played in Jordan's position over the last 20 years. He will be hard to replace and could be the first of 5/6 who are coming near the end of their time.

what are you on about man. When did francie ever dive on the ground to get someone sent off, francie maybe stepped over the line a few times throughout his career most notably against Mickey Linden but would never have purposely tried to get another man sent off. In my eyes this is the most cowardly and hateful thing a player can do and Jordan did this in the most important of matches. I have to admit Jordan has been a brilliant player over the years but his career will forever be tarnished by this despicable act.

Perhaps in your eyes but the majority of GAA followers will remember Philip (when he does retire, which hopefully wont be for a while yet) as an excellent footballer who gave great service. I'm sure Jordan doesn't look back on 2003 incident with much pride but ultimately he makes a very convenient scapegoat for Armagh followers. Jordan let himself down by going to the ground after running to Marsden but Marsden still raised his hands and struck him. If he hadn't he wouldn't have been sent off. The sending off was indeed rescinded but on a technicality, it wasn't a case of Marsden being cleared of striking Jordan.
Armagh were a clear second best that day and for whatever reason didn't really do themselves justice. Rather than accepting that however it's easier just to pin it on Philip Jordan.

Can an Armagh poster fill the following blanks in:

Why we didnt win an All-Ireland-

2003-Marsden hit Philip Jordan but its Jordans fault.
2004-
2005-
2006-
2007-
2008-
2009-
2010-

Go on lads-let the emotions out.

Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on April 06, 2011, 11:34:45 AM

Quote from: orchard 8195 on April 06, 2011, 10:34:34 AM

Quote from: oakleafgael on April 05, 2011, 11:00:22 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 05, 2011, 10:44:34 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 05, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Spot on. Nothing but a cheat.

Any Armagh supporter who follows this train of thought would have to be prepared to call Francie Bellew a cheat as well. They both done the same thing.
As a Derryman it can be hard to be objective about Tyrone footballers but you would be hard pressed to find many better footballers who played in Jordan's position over the last 20 years. He will be hard to replace and could be the first of 5/6 who are coming near the end of their time.

what are you on about man. When did francie ever dive on the ground to get someone sent off, francie maybe stepped over the line a few times throughout his career most notably against Mickey Linden but would never have purposely tried to get another man sent off. In my eyes this is the most cowardly and hateful thing a player can do and Jordan did this in the most important of matches. I have to admit Jordan has been a brilliant player over the years but his career will forever be tarnished by this despicable act.

Perhaps in your eyes but the majority of GAA followers will remember Philip (when he does retire, which hopefully wont be for a while yet) as an excellent footballer who gave great service. I'm sure Jordan doesn't look back on 2003 incident with much pride but ultimately he makes a very convenient scapegoat for Armagh followers. Jordan let himself down by going to the ground after running to Marsden but Marsden still raised his hands and struck him. If he hadn't he wouldn't have been sent off. The sending off was indeed rescinded but on a technicality, it wasn't a case of Marsden being cleared of striking Jordan.
Armagh were a clear second best that day and for whatever reason didn't really do themselves justice. Rather than accepting that however it's easier just to pin it on Philip Jordan.

Like i already said Jordan was and no doubt still is a wonderful footballer and no i am not using this particular incident as the only reason Armagh were beat that day. Tyrone proved after that how wonderful a team they were by winning 2 more AIs and were the better team on the day in 2003 but Jordan was out of order in what he did and id say no Armagh man will ever forgive him for it. Just like if a similar incident happened and an Antrim or St Galls man was the innocent party.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
This little topic comes up every so often and I'm always intrigued how the neutrals viewed it.

Are most Armagh men saying that Jordan charged at Marsden in a state of rage and Marsden swung but never made contact or that Jordan over reacted to the punch?

I have no love for either Armagh or Tyrone (or anyone really). I consider myself a neutral, others won't. Some even suggest an anti-Tyrone bias; they are wrong - check my posts on the Stephen O'Neill / John Toal incident if you like.

As a neutral, my opinion is this.

Marsden was unlucky to be sent off. However, it is my firm belief that such a scenario had been discussed / encouraged / practised under Mickey Harte's tutelage. I have highlighted other examples in the past where a Tyrone man has gone flying in and promptly ended on his hole, like Jordan did. One example involved Brian McGuigan and Eamon Fitzmaurice. I believe that Jordan's involvement in the incident was to get an opponent sent off - nothing more, nothing less. I have also highlighted in the past, the 'enraged' attitude of players who try to influence referees with their faux rage. This is something all teams do.

Jordan is unlucky that to many the Marsden incident has overshadowed his achievements on the pitch. Few outside Tyrone can say with certainty the number of All-Stars he has won, most can say who was involved in the Marsden sending off.

It's also my opinion that if a team of this current century was being selected today, few serious people (if any) could leave Philip Jordan off it.

Quote from: orchard 8195 on April 06, 2011, 11:58:16 AM

Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on April 06, 2011, 11:34:45 AM

Quote from: orchard 8195 on April 06, 2011, 10:34:34 AM

Quote from: oakleafgael on April 05, 2011, 11:00:22 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 05, 2011, 10:44:34 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 05, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Jordan won't be missed by anyone in Armagh for reasons already alluded to. Outstanding player for Tyrone, but will be remembered mainly for his antics in the 03 final. Certainly in Armagh (and in my eyes) he will go done as nothing more than a cowardly cheat.

Spot on. Nothing but a cheat.

Any Armagh supporter who follows this train of thought would have to be prepared to call Francie Bellew a cheat as well. They both done the same thing.
As a Derryman it can be hard to be objective about Tyrone footballers but you would be hard pressed to find many better footballers who played in Jordan's position over the last 20 years. He will be hard to replace and could be the first of 5/6 who are coming near the end of their time.

what are you on about man. When did francie ever dive on the ground to get someone sent off, francie maybe stepped over the line a few times throughout his career most notably against Mickey Linden but would never have purposely tried to get another man sent off. In my eyes this is the most cowardly and hateful thing a player can do and Jordan did this in the most important of matches. I have to admit Jordan has been a brilliant player over the years but his career will forever be tarnished by this despicable act.

Perhaps in your eyes but the majority of GAA followers will remember Philip (when he does retire, which hopefully wont be for a while yet) as an excellent footballer who gave great service. I'm sure Jordan doesn't look back on 2003 incident with much pride but ultimately he makes a very convenient scapegoat for Armagh followers. Jordan let himself down by going to the ground after running to Marsden but Marsden still raised his hands and struck him. If he hadn't he wouldn't have been sent off. The sending off was indeed rescinded but on a technicality, it wasn't a case of Marsden being cleared of striking Jordan.
Armagh were a clear second best that day and for whatever reason didn't really do themselves justice. Rather than accepting that however it's easier just to pin it on Philip Jordan.

Like i already said Jordan was and no doubt still is a wonderful footballer and no i am not using this particular incident as the only reason Armagh were beat that day. Tyrone proved after that how wonderful a team they were by winning 2 more AIs and were the better team on the day in 2003 but Jordan was out of order in what he did and id say no Armagh man will ever forgive him for it. Just like if a similar incident happened and an Antrim or St Galls man was the innocent party.

sorry if i insulted you by mistaking  you as a st galls and antrim man my heads away with it but u know the point i was trying to make, my bad lol

Quote from: supersarsfields on April 06, 2011, 09:30:43 AM
Awwww that explains why Ziggy didn't get this scoop.

Ziggy doesn't deal in rumours.

Yer darn tootin'

Saffron Sam summed it up well there...

For the record I have nothing but respect and admiration for that core of Tyrone players and their achievements from 97 onwards. (and I include Ricey and Mugsy in that!)

Jordan however is the exception and that is based solely on his cowardly behaviour in 2003. Armagh might not be in an AI final again in my lifetime so to have a player wrongfully sent off as a result of cheating will not easily be forgotten.

As I said, he'll go down as a great player, but also as a cowardly cheat.

Only a self deluder would state that Marsden did not strike.  "If you strake you must go in this game."    A wiser man than you once said this at half time in an all ireland final.  Jordan was struck in a moment of madness and a loss of discipline by Marsden - it didnt make any difference to the outcome, and if a man the size of Marsden hits its going to be sore.   
I mean Tyrone were absolutely robbed of an ulster title in 05 against Armagh by 2 decisions that were overturned and not on any technicality. But we dont bleat on about it.  Christ almiighty guys get over it.  2 teams beat you that year Monaghan and Tyrone. If the 3rd best team in Ulster had won an all ireland therd have been a travesty.       

Is there a chance that the man who started this thread got it mixed up with this? It's a mess really with journalism at an all-time low.

Jordan may quit Twitter and it may be the biggest disaster the world has ever, ever faced ever

Jordan is getting so narked about keyboard warriors Tweeting abuse in her virtual direction since her split from Peter Andre that's she considering giving Twitter up altogether.

A source close to Jordan said:

"Kate is a tough cookie and she's grown used to what she calls 'the haters' who are constantly taking pops at her, especailly around the Moy.

"But the level of abuse on Twitter can be intolerable. She really is in two minds about staying on the site and may consider moving to Blackwatertown.

"She gets lots of really lovely messages from her true fans on both sides of the border who look up to her and they are an absolute pleasure.

"But in the same breath, there are the mindless idiots who bombard her with crude, abusive comments especially regarding the Marsden craic in 2003 – which are there for all the public to see. She tries to ignore it but it's hard not to be upset. She is considering all her options."

So, mindless idiots, unless you buck up your ideas and treat All-Ireland winner Jordan like an idol and "look up to her", not only will you be denied the honour of being recognised as a true fan, you'll also have to carry it around with you for the rest of your miserable lives that you'll be directly responsible for ruining the social networking experience of all the good Tweeters.

We don't know how you live with yourselves.

The shadowy source figure also added: "It's sad but that's what happens when you're in the public eye with 4 All-Stars. Kate is trying to rise above it."

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
I mean Tyrone were absolutely robbed of an ulster title in 05 against Armagh by 2 decisions that were overturned and not on any technicality. But we dont bleat on about it.  Christ almiighty guys get over it.         

You'd never catch a Tyrone poster harping back to the 96 final would you? Oh wait........

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
2 teams beat you that year Monaghan and Tyrone. If the 3rd best team in Ulster had won an all ireland therd have been a travesty.       

Did the second best team in Ulster win the AI in 2005 and 2008?

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 01:36:00 PM

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
I mean Tyrone were absolutely robbed of an ulster title in 05 against Armagh by 2 decisions that were overturned and not on any technicality. But we dont bleat on about it.  Christ almiighty guys get over it.         

You'd never catch a Tyrone poster harping back to the 96 final would you?

Yea, we really were wound up about that up in Tyrone. Mayo were shafted.

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 01:36:00 PM

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
I mean Tyrone were absolutely robbed of an ulster title in 05 against Armagh by 2 decisions that were overturned and not on any technicality. But we dont bleat on about it.  Christ almiighty guys get over it.         

You'd never catch a Tyrone poster harping back to the 96 final would you? Oh wait........

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
2 teams beat you that year Monaghan and Tyrone. If the 3rd best team in Ulster had won an all ireland therd have been a travesty.       

Did the second best team in Ulster win the AI in 2005 and 2008?

Why would they?  That should be left to Mayo and Meath supporters !

Quote from: orchard 8195 on April 06, 2011, 10:52:59 AM

Quote from: liihb on April 06, 2011, 10:43:11 AM
Francie dived against Cavan to get I think the great Larry Reilly sent off a few years ago.

1st minute of 2004 ulster championship match v cavan pearse mckenna was rightly sent off for striking Francie. Have video of the match in house a definate sending off. Marsden sending off was later recinded.

Apologies, your right, it was Pearse McKenna he got sent off....was no sending off...(neither was Marsdens by the way)

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
Only a self deluder would state that Marsden did not strike.  "If you strake you must go in this game."    A wiser man than you once said this at half time in an all ireland final.  Jordan was struck in a moment of madness and a loss of discipline by Marsden - it didnt make any difference to the outcome, and if a man the size of Marsden hits its going to be sore.   
I mean Tyrone were absolutely robbed of an ulster title in 05 against Armagh by 2 decisions that were overturned and not on any technicality. But we dont bleat on about it.  Christ almiighty guys get over it.  2 teams beat you that year Monaghan and Tyrone. If the 3rd best team in Ulster had won an all ireland therd have been a travesty.     

And only a self-deluder would deny that Jordan cheated. If you re-watch the footage you will see that the ref had his back to the incident. Jordan lay on the ground as if shot by a sniper; despite the fact that he had instigated the whole thing by running full pace into Marsden.

To deride Marsden such as you have speaks volumes. A moment of madness? More like a moment of self defence, which ended in the ref being conned and him being sent off.

If that isn't cheating I'd love to know what is.

Also, I have yet to see on this thread anyone mentioning that this incident cost Armagh the 2003 final, so I fail to see why you have brought that up.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 06, 2011, 12:00:07 PM
As a neutral, my opinion is this.

Marsden was unlucky to be sent off. However, it is my firm belief that such a scenario had been discussed / encouraged / practised under Mickey Harte's tutelage. I have highlighted other examples in the past where a Tyrone man has gone flying in and promptly ended on his hole, like Jordan did. One example involved Brian McGuigan and Eamon Fitzmaurice. I believe that Jordan's involvement in the incident was to get an opponent sent off - nothing more, nothing less. I have also highlighted in the past, the 'enraged' attitude of players who try to influence referees with their faux rage. This is something all teams do.

Are you saying SS that IYHO you think Mickey Harte discussed/encouraged his players to try to use Armagh's often "stretching of the rules in the physical side of things" against them and to fall down properly to highlight the fact that if they hit you a punch that you go down and don't stand up like a man in case the Ref doesn't see it?
In my biased Tyrone eyes Marsden must have done something prior to the punch to infuriate Jordan so when play was stopped he comes charging back at him to square up to him to let him know he was out of line.
The fact that Marsden swung his closed fist at him is to most Tyrone people the main perpetrator in the incident.
Some will argue what should you do if a crazed opponent is charging at you looking like he's gonna attack you but what annoys me is that I have yet to hear one Armagh fan admit that Marsden was wrong to swing a punch at him and he should have either turned his back on him or pushed him away with open hands like what happens a lot since.

If you think a man is a cheat to fall to the ground when he gets hit a punch then I am perplexed.
As someone said before its like Armagh needed a scapegoat for losing that final.
If Armagh decide to use rough them up tactics then they gotta take the rough with the smooth when they overstep the mark.

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 01:36:00 PM

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
I mean Tyrone were absolutely robbed of an ulster title in 05 against Armagh by 2 decisions that were overturned and not on any technicality. But we dont bleat on about it.  Christ almiighty guys get over it.         

You'd never catch a Tyrone poster harping back to the 96 final would you? Oh wait........

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
2 teams beat you that year Monaghan and Tyrone. If the 3rd best team in Ulster had won an all ireland therd have been a travesty.       

Did the second best team in Ulster win the AI in 2005 and 2008?

The 96 final?

Regarding 2005 and 2008, the best team in Ulster won the All Ireland.

Great player and only Curran, Ó Sé and Moynihan would be above him in the pecking order of wing-backs in recent years.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 02:19:07 PM
If Armagh decide to use rough them up tactics then they gotta take the rough with the smooth when they overstep the mark.

Like a Kevin Hughes clothes-line for example.

Bit of revisionism from Tyrone people - I don't think it was a punch. A strike maybe; but then again 'strike' is an ambiguous term. He put both his hands up; stood his ground and Jordan hit the deck like Marsden had been the one to run into him.

His body language says it all afterwards - absolute shock. I sincerely doubt he would attempt to take out a player in such close proximity to the ref either.

Must put a link to this in the pointless thread.

Armagh and Tyrone wans couldn't agree then on it. I can't see it happening now!! 

Lads, it is true. Harte is playing mind games and behind the scene talks are trying to get him back but it is definitely over for the greatest number 7 that I personally have ever seen.

Armagh posters-get over it. Marsden let you/s down and you have only him or Big Joe to blame for your solitary fortunate lonely all ireland.

(http://mfdpets.com/catalog/images/MEOW.JPG)

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 06, 2011, 02:38:54 PM
Lads, it is true. Harte is playing mind games and behind the scene talks are trying to get him back but it is definitely over for the greatest number 7 that I personally have ever seen.

Philly didn't train last night like Micky had hoped (according to 2 county men fronm the East).  Micky must be trying to do a McCullagh'esque persuasion to try to convince him back but Philly has made his decision and I cant see him changing it. 

Dont know why he chose now as opposed to end of last season unless he wanted to go out on a winning note, but he will be a huge loss and Moys gain.

Neither do I, considering he was training like a man posessed and is fantastic nick. I think a lot to do with it is Mellon's retirement. These two men were playing on the same sides since no age. Maybe the thought of going to Omagh/Cookstown has lost its appeal. Who Knows?


But i can confirm it is over.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 02:19:07 PM
Are you saying SS that IYHO you think Mickey Harte discussed/encouraged his players to try to use Armagh's often "stretching of the rules in the physical side of things" against them and to fall down properly to highlight the fact that if they hit you a punch that you go down and don't stand up like a man in case the Ref doesn't see it?

No what I'm saying is that Mickey Harte discussed / encouraged his players to try to con referees. In this respect, he is little different to any other senior inter-county manager, or indeed any Gaelic football manager at any level; he is simply better at it.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 02:19:07 PM
In my biased Tyrone eyes Marsden must have done something prior to the punch to infuriate Jordan so when play was stopped he comes charging back at him to square up to him to let him know he was out of line.

I don't think Jordan was particularly infuriated - I believe that it was 'faux' infuriation. How often do you see players getting involved in incidents in an attempt to con the referee? Every team does it. Mickey Harte's Tyrone team does it. I've sat in changing rooms  / teams meetings where we've been told to do it.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 02:19:07 PM
The fact that Marsden swung his closed fist at him is to most Tyrone people the main perpetrator in the incident.
Some will argue what should you do if a crazed opponent is charging at you looking like he's gonna attack you but what annoys me is that I have yet to hear one Armagh fan admit that Marsden was wrong to swing a punch at him and he should have either turned his back on him or pushed him away with open hands like what happens a lot since.

My opinion would be that regardless of whether or not he'd been hit with a fist or open hand or simply shoved, Jordan was going down. Your opinion is different, that's how things go.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 02:19:07 PM
If you think a man is a cheat to fall to the ground when he gets hit a punch then I am perplexed.
As someone said before its like Armagh needed a scapegoat for losing that final.
If Armagh decide to use rough them up tactics then they gotta take the rough with the smooth when they overstep the mark.

I didn't use the word cheat. Such actions are now an accepted part of the game and whilst I don't condone such behaviour I am realistic enough to accept that they will happen.

Another point I made was that similar incidents have happened in games that didn't involve Armagh. The incident in question wasn't why Armagh lost that final.

You asked for a neutral opinion - I've given you mine. It wouldn't matter if Jordan had been an Armagh man, a Down man, a Derry man or even an Antrim man. My opinion of the incident would be the same.

Quote from: fitzroyalty on April 06, 2011, 02:32:40 PM
I don't think it was a punch. A strike maybe; but then again 'strike' is an ambiguous term. He put both his hands up; stood his ground and Jordan hit the deck like Marsden had been the one to run into him.

I love it when ye contradict yourself.
As for Hughes and a few others, at least I can admit when they have done wrong and let the team down. Like Hughes silly rabbit punch in Omagh v Derry in 2006. Silly and got sent off correctly & we lost the game.

SS2 I was not referring to you re the word cheat but to others who have said it.
I just disagree with you that when Jordan charged at Marsden he had already decided right I'm going down here like a sack of spuds.
Often if someone has a wee go at you as you have the ball and the play goes on, you then loss the head and run back to confront them to say "what he hell were you at there"

I can see The Armagh lads will never apportion any blame to Marsden so I will agree to disagree with them yet again on the incident. I wonder had Gormley not blocked that goal chance and Armagh won the game would they be so bitter with Philly or is it cos he lives so near the border and went to school in Armagh as Dooher did in Derry.

Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2011, 02:30:31 PM

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 01:36:00 PM

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
I mean Tyrone were absolutely robbed of an ulster title in 05 against Armagh by 2 decisions that were overturned and not on any technicality. But we dont bleat on about it.  Christ almiighty guys get over it.         

You'd never catch a Tyrone poster harping back to the 96 final would you? Oh wait........

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
2 teams beat you that year Monaghan and Tyrone. If the 3rd best team in Ulster had won an all ireland therd have been a travesty.       

Did the second best team in Ulster win the AI in 2005 and 2008?

The 96 final?

Regarding 2005 and 2008, the best team in Ulster won the All Ireland.

Apologies for the typo....but I'm sure you catch the drift of my argument.....the irony of Tyrone posters pulling us up on harping back to incidents in the past is obviously lost on a lot of you!!

At the end of the day it took a wonder block from Conor Gormley to deny Armagh the win, nothing to do with Jordon getting hit.
Looks like its true then.  Massive loss to Tyrone, one of the best half backs to play the game in my time.  When you seen Jordon making those lung bursting runs up along the sideline, it was a good sign that Tyrone were to have a good day.

Jesus, i really hope he's retired.  if he hasnt, then when he does, we'll have to go through all this sh1t again!!!

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 06, 2011, 03:28:44 PM
Jesus, i really hope he's retired.  if he hasnt, then when he does, we'll have to go through all this sh1t again!!!

If you don't like it-don't read it. If the Armagh ones want to let off a bit of steam then they are wholly entitled to.

I have kept my councel on this for a long time but the evening of the Tyrone Vs Dublin game last year I had a car to go through MOT. Sitting in the test centre in Armagh I seen a woman step out of car in the tattiest Dublin jersey you have ever seen. She didnt have an Armagh accent and was just a bitter sickening Armagh supporter. A far cry for the hundreds if not thousands that journeyed into Armagh city to see the home coming in 2002. If it hadn't of been Jordan they used as a scapegoat then it would have been the referee, if it wasn't the referee then it would have been something else. Just like they used Big Joe as the scapegoat in 2005. Face it Orchard fans, you were not as good as what you thought you were.

Did the car pass the MOT?

No, the f*cker failed me-another bitter Armagh fan i presumed.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 03:18:25 PM
I can see The Armagh lads will never apportion any blame to Marsden so I will agree to disagree with them yet again on the incident. I wonder had Gormley not blocked that goal chance and Armagh won the game would they be so bitter with Philly or is it cos he lives so near the border and went to school in Armagh as Dooher did in Derry.

I don't know about any other Armagh posters but I would refuse to put any blame at Marsden's door. He played minor and senior inter county football for Armagh from 1992 to 2007 without blemish. Some of our other players did get involved in some unsavoury incidents in their day but Marsden did not. He is as honest a player as you could care to meet. To see him in tears at the post match banquet in 2003 left a lasting memory for me.
The result of the game has no bearing on my feelings on the matter anyway. Tyrone posters seem to assume we all blame this incident on the final result of the game but any Armagh people that do are in the minority.

What did it fail on?
Who was to blame for that?
Was it pre-meditated?

It failed on the final test, the stress test.
I thought it should have got through, it would have been its second pass in two years. Quite remarkable for a car which is not that impressive.
Yeah definitely pre-meditated-that examiner is a tra*p and a cheat and I will always remember him as such.

even thou he has gone on to test numerous cars and pass them he will always be remembered for that one fail

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 03:18:25 PM
I don't think it was a punch. A strike maybe; but then again 'strike' is an ambiguous term. He put both his hands up; stood his ground and Jordan hit the deck like Marsden had been the one to run into him.
I love it when ye contradict yourself.

How did I contradict myself? I said 'strike' is an ambiguous term, i.e. open to interpretation. It was universally accepted that Marsden was harshly sent off. The only people who disagree with this assertion are from Tyrone funnily enough.

Quote
Often if someone has a wee go at you as you have the ball and the play goes on, you then loss the head and run back to confront them to say "what he hell were you at there"

But Marsden didn't have a go at him, it was between him and another Tyrone player (Gormley?) and Jordan chose to involve himself by sprinting 20 yards into Marsden.

Quote
I can see The Armagh lads will never apportion any blame to Marsden so I will agree to disagree with them yet again on the incident. I wonder had Gormley not blocked that goal chance and Armagh won the game would they be so bitter with Philly or is it cos he lives so near the border and went to school in Armagh as Dooher did in Derry.

Of course they won't, and why would they? Marsden was a role model and one of the most honest players in the game. His good name was dragged through the dirt because of this and the appeal was about clearing his name more than anything.

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 03:44:54 PM

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 03:18:25 PM
I can see The Armagh lads will never apportion any blame to Marsden so I will agree to disagree with them yet again on the incident. I wonder had Gormley not blocked that goal chance and Armagh won the game would they be so bitter with Philly or is it cos he lives so near the border and went to school in Armagh as Dooher did in Derry.

I don't know about any other Armagh posters but I would refuse to put any blame at Marsden's door. He played minor and senior inter county football for Armagh from 1992 to 2007 without blemish. Some of our other players did get involved in some unsavoury incidents in their day but Marsden did not. He is as honest a player as you could care to meet. To see him in tears at the post match banquet in 2003 left a lasting memory for me.
The result of the game has no bearing on my feelings on the matter anyway. Tyrone posters seem to assume we all blame this incident on the final result of the game but any Armagh people that do are in the minority.

There is no way of avoiding it Marsden should not have been sent off. It was a poor poor decision. Secondly Jordan certainly did act in an unimpressive manner regarding his reaction. I don't think Tyrone fans should even attempt to deny either of these things.

But one moment does not make a man, over his career he has been an excellent and talented GAA player and if he did retire should be remembered for that more than anything else.

Also that sending off made things difficult for Armagh but can not be accused of robbing them of the title. There was time to make up for it. It was just one incident and there were lots. If Canavan had been able to play 70 minutes, If McGuigan hadn't been suffering from the flu, If Clarke had been on form (Marsden wouldn't even have been on the pitch), If Stevie had managed to slip that ball past Gormley in the dying minutes!

Swings and roundabouts, there is no point anyone making it bigger than it was but there is no point trying to make it smaller than it was. He didn't do it regularly but on this occasion Jordan did cheat and it was not good. Though i see no reason why it shoudl be held as representative of an otherwise excellent career

'faux' infuriation.
Would Saffron Sam catch himself on.  Can you imagine a coaching session dedicated to "Faux infuriation" as you say. 
"Right lads be mean angry and upset for 20 seconds on, then 20 seconds off, I want to see screamin and roarin till failure.  Jeez they must have some mighty training sessions around Glen 3rds.   

There are a few auld souls in Kerry that think a certain Tyrone Goalie had a thumb stuck in Gooch's eye in the 2005 final , though I think it was more of a slap than a direct strike on the eye, while there are many in Tyrone who believe it never happened at all and that Gooch took a dive and probably dinged his own eye.

Anyway probably not the thread for it just wanted to get that off my chest.

A grand spot of weather we are having all the same.

Quote from: Kerry Mike on April 06, 2011, 05:46:06 PM
There are a few auld souls in Kerry that think a certain Tyrone Goalie had a thumb stuck in Gooch's eye in the 2005 final , though I think it was more of a slap than a direct strike on the eye, while there are many in Tyrone who believe it never happened at all and that Gooch took a dive and probably dinged his own eye.

Anyway probably not the thread for it just wanted to get that off my chest.

A grand spot of weather we are having all the same.

There was an even more shocking incident in the 2008 final when the McMahon brothers put Donaghy and Walsh in their back pockets for 70 minutes.

I think Tyrone fans are pretty much agreed that the incident in the 2003 was not a proud one for Philip Jordan. I certainly agree Jordan let himself down badly by charging in then hitting the ground when hit and rolling around. At the same time it's a bit OTT to paint a picture of Marsden as being whiter than white and a wronged party. Whatever the circumstances he raised his hands and struck an opponent. I don't expect Armagh fans to be praising Philp Jordan but calling him a "cowardly cheat" and "despicable" is over the top.

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 03:44:54 PM

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 03:18:25 PM
I can see The Armagh lads will never apportion any blame to Marsden so I will agree to disagree with them yet again on the incident. I wonder had Gormley not blocked that goal chance and Armagh won the game would they be so bitter with Philly or is it cos he lives so near the border and went to school in Armagh as Dooher did in Derry.

I don't know about any other Armagh posters but I would refuse to put any blame at Marsden's door. He played minor and senior inter county football for Armagh from 1992 to 2007 without blemish. Some of our other players did get involved in some unsavoury incidents in their day but Marsden did not. He is as honest a player as you could care to meet. To see him in tears at the post match banquet in 2003 left a lasting memory for me.
The result of the game has no bearing on my feelings on the matter anyway. Tyrone posters seem to assume we all blame this incident on the final result of the game but any Armagh people that do are in the minority.

Hope you gave him a hanky?

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/0604110836-harte-dismisses-jordan-retirement-rumours/

Harte dismisses Jordan retirement rumours

Quotelocal websites and Internet forums were claiming that the three-time All-Ireland medal winner had played his last game for Tyrone. "That's not true (regarding retirement), it's an Internet thing at the minute, there's no other story to it," said Harte.

Quote from: PAULD123 on April 06, 2011, 04:41:47 PM

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 03:44:54 PM

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 03:18:25 PM
I can see The Armagh lads will never apportion any blame to Marsden so I will agree to disagree with them yet again on the incident. I wonder had Gormley not blocked that goal chance and Armagh won the game would they be so bitter with Philly or is it cos he lives so near the border and went to school in Armagh as Dooher did in Derry.

I don't know about any other Armagh posters but I would refuse to put any blame at Marsden's door. He played minor and senior inter county football for Armagh from 1992 to 2007 without blemish. Some of our other players did get involved in some unsavoury incidents in their day but Marsden did not. He is as honest a player as you could care to meet. To see him in tears at the post match banquet in 2003 left a lasting memory for me.
The result of the game has no bearing on my feelings on the matter anyway. Tyrone posters seem to assume we all blame this incident on the final result of the game but any Armagh people that do are in the minority.

There is no way of avoiding it Marsden should not have been sent off. It was a poor poor decision. Secondly Jordan certainly did act in an unimpressive manner regarding his reaction. I don't think Tyrone fans should even attempt to deny either of these things.

But one moment does not make a man, over his career he has been an excellent and talented GAA player and if he did retire should be remembered for that more than anything else.

Also that sending off made things difficult for Armagh but can not be accused of robbing them of the title. There was time to make up for it. It was just one incident and there were lots. If Canavan had been able to play 70 minutes, If McGuigan hadn't been suffering from the flu, If Clarke had been on form (Marsden wouldn't even have been on the pitch), If Stevie had managed to slip that ball past Gormley in the dying minutes!

Swings and roundabouts, there is no point anyone making it bigger than it was but there is no point trying to make it smaller than it was. He didn't do it regularly but on this occasion Jordan did cheat and it was not good. Though i see no reason why it shoudl be held as representative of an otherwise excellent career

'If Clarke has been on form Marsden would'nt even be playing'WHAT??? Dry up you tool!

Right armagh people cry me a river! This thread is to do with the rumours of retirement not the 2003 all-ireland final which Tyrone deservedly won!

But just to clear the thing up, if any of you have a copy of Jerome Quinns "Sam Comes Home" a book charting Tyrones journey to all-ireland success in 2003, if you would turn to pages 57 & 58 which clearly shows the incident step-by step. Jordan rushes towards Marsden who turns to face him with fists clenched, then it CLEARLY shows marsdens clenched fist connecting with Jordans jaw.

Manys a time ive shut an armagh man up on this incident by showing these photos. Clear as day!

So unless you've any info on the retirement thing, then dry ur eyes armagh folk..

I think he, along with McMenamin,  epitomized the mean-spiritedness at the heart of Tyrone football. Always getting in lads faces, shite like that. If you can't win without that carry on then you can't be considered a great player. The likes of Seamus Moynihan, De Paor etc didnt need to resort to that kind of messing.

I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

Quote from: Puckoon on April 07, 2011, 05:40:41 AM
I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

when have either of these players attempted diving, cheap verbals or intimidatory tactics to gain an "edge" ?  (not to mention over the top triumphalism) ...also, Mike McCarthy?...what planet are you on ? he's the LAST player that would engage in that sort of crap.

Whatever about footballing abilities, Mike McCarthy and Philip Jordan are on different planets when it comes to sportsmanship. You could not have picked a more extreme comparison if you tried !

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:40:09 AM

Quote from: Puckoon on April 07, 2011, 05:40:41 AM
I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

when have either of these players attempted diving, cheap verbals or intimidatory tactics to gain an "edge" ?  (not to mention over the top triumphalism) ...also, Mike McCarthy?...what planet are you on ? he's the LAST player that would engage in that sort of crap.

Whatever about footballing abilities, Mike McCarthy and Philip Jordan are on different planets when it comes to sportsmanship. You could not have picked a more extreme comparison if you tried !

So this is the gospel according to Kerry?
Wise up.
Did you ever hear the one about Pedro the sheep shagger?

PJ will not be remembered for the 2003 inccident. He will be remembered for his consistent contribution to one of the greatest teams in the history of football. The facts speak for themselves, medals at every level, all-stars etc...last year he was player of the year by a country mile, or a Kerrymans ego, depending on which is the bigger of the two...
We are all entitled to our opinions - but i suspect the Marsden / Jordan spat, will not be a career defining moment for either player.

Personally I would like to see PJ continue and give Cork a rattle again this year. If he retires, i wish him all the best adn good luck with An Mhaigh.

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 04:54:14 PM
'faux' infuriation.
Would Saffron Sam catch himself on.  Can you imagine a coaching session dedicated to "Faux infuriation" as you say. 
"Right lads be mean angry and upset for 20 seconds on, then 20 seconds off, I want to see screamin and roarin till failure.  Jeez they must have some mighty training sessions around Glen 3rds.

A poster on this thread asked for a neutral opinion. I gave him mine, backed it up with another example and a third party poster decides to attempt to out me. By that I mean give away my identity, rather than my sexuality.

You know you're winning an argument when the sum of the opponent's argument is "I'm going to out you". rrhf joins a rogue's gallery containing the likes of milltown row2 and bannside who have withered and resorted to such tactics. Although, I have no idea who rrhf thinks I am as I have never played for Glen 3rds. Nor am I likely to. I can only assume the f in his / her handle is short for fool. Or fcukwit.

I also think it's fair to assume that Glen 3rds rarely, if ever, trained. In fact iirc Paddy Heaney did an article in the Irish News describing how their manager would buy a carry out for the man of the match each week. But what you can be sure of is that at meeting before big 3rds matches that team would have been coached to attempt to influence the referee - in the same way that every team playing this weekend (including Tyrone) will be coached to influence / con the referee. If rrhf doesn't realise or understand this then he / she clearly has no understanding of how the game is played. Tyrone didn't become the second best team of the last decade by sticking to the rules of Gaelic football; they bent and manipulated them to gain an advantage.

One thing that Mickey Harte's Tyrone team has is almost absolute discipline, excluding Kevin Hughes's aberration against Derry in 2006 and Ryan McMenamin every time he crossed the white line. In a extremely disciplined team, Philip Jordan is an extremely disciplined player. There is no way that whatever happened prior to the Marsden / Jordan incident was serious enough to warrant such a reaction from the Moy ace.

My opinion (which as a neutral, Fuzzman asked for in the first place) remains that Jordan's involvement in the Marsden incident was solely an attempt to get an opponent sent off and that such tactics were / are coached by the Tyrone management. No amount of veiled threats by rrhf and his / her ilk to make my real name and club known will change that opinion. It also remains my opinion that such tactics are an intrinsic part of Gaelic football at all levels. It also remains my opinion that Jordan's career can't and shouldn't be defined or overshadowed by this single incident - he wouldn't hold a candle to, for example, Johnny McGurk in terms of wing half back skulduggery.

Quote from: BingBing on April 07, 2011, 12:26:11 AM
Right armagh people cry me a river! This thread is to do with the rumours of retirement not the 2003 all-ireland final which Tyrone deservedly won!

But just to clear the thing up, if any of you have a copy of Jerome Quinns "Sam Comes Home" a book charting Tyrones journey to all-ireland success in 2003, if you would turn to pages 57 & 58 which clearly shows the incident step-by step. Jordan rushes towards Marsden who turns to face him with fists clenched, then it CLEARLY shows marsdens clenched fist connecting with Jordans jaw.

Manys a time ive shut an armagh man up on this incident by showing these photos. Clear as day!

So unless you've any info on the retirement thing, then dry ur eyes armagh folk..

BingBing, Jordan was the culprit in the action with Marsden in 2003, no other way to dress it up.  What else was he to do if he saw an opponent running full pelt at him.  Jordan embarassed himself and if anyone should have been sent-off it should have been him.  Apart from that though, he has been a great player for Tyrone over the years and it was evident from last years Championship that he is still very much at the peak of his powers, so it would be disappointing to see him pack it in but if he feels he no longer whats to put in the huge level of dedication required then who are we to question him.  I would love to see his training schedule to actually see how many nights a week he leaves work and drives to training in different parts of the county then gives up the guts of every weekend to travel around the country to play NFL games, serious level of commitment required.

Fact is Marsden had lost it-whatever Gormley said to him he digged him and then Jordan made a charge at the Lurgan man. Did Jordan go down too easily, yes. Was Marsden at fault, yes. Will the Armagh team be remembered in 20 years time, no.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 07, 2011, 08:32:51 AM

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 04:54:14 PM
'faux' infuriation.
Would Saffron Sam catch himself on.  Can you imagine a coaching session dedicated to "Faux infuriation" as you say. 
"Right lads be mean angry and upset for 20 seconds on, then 20 seconds off, I want to see screamin and roarin till failure.  Jeez they must have some mighty training sessions around Glen 3rds.

A poster on this thread asked for a neutral opinion. I gave him mine, backed it up with another example and a third party poster decides to attempt to out me. By that I mean give away my identity, rather than my sexuality.

You know you're winning an argument when the sum of the opponent's argument is "I'm going to out you". rrhf joins a rogue's gallery containing the likes of milltown row2 and bannside who have withered and resorted to such tactics. Although, I have no idea who rrhf thinks I am as I have never played for Glen 3rds. Nor am I likely to. I can only assume the f in his / her handle is short for fool. Or fcukwit.

I also think it's fair to assume that Glen 3rds rarely, if ever, trained. In fact iirc Paddy Heaney did an article in the Irish News describing how their manager would buy a carry out for the man of the match each week. But what you can be sure of is that at meeting before big 3rds matches that team would have been coached to attempt to influence the referee - in the same way that every team playing this weekend (including Tyrone) will be coached to influence / con the referee. If rrhf doesn't realise or understand this then he / she clearly has no understanding of how the game is played. Tyrone didn't become the second best team of the last decade by sticking to the rules of Gaelic football; they bent and manipulated them to gain an advantage.

One thing that Mickey Harte's Tyrone team has is almost absolute discipline, excluding Kevin Hughes's aberration against Derry in 2006 and Ryan McMenamin every time he crossed the white line. In a extremely disciplined team, Philip Jordan is an extremely disciplined player. There is no way that whatever happened prior to the Marsden / Jordan incident was serious enough to warrant such a reaction from the Moy ace.

My opinion (which as a neutral, Fuzzman asked for in the first place) remains that Jordan's involvement in the Marsden incident was solely an attempt to get an opponent sent off and that such tactics were / are coached by the Tyrone management. No amount of veiled threats by rrhf and his / her ilk to make my real name and club known will change that opinion. It also remains my opinion that such tactics are an intrinsic part of Gaelic football at all levels. It also remains my opinion that Jordan's career can't and shouldn't be defined or overshadowed by this single incident - he wouldn't hold a candle to, for example, Johnny McGurk in terms of wing half back skulduggery.

Cant argue with any of that.

Quote from: rrhf on April 07, 2011, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 07, 2011, 08:32:51 AM

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 04:54:14 PM
'faux' infuriation.
Would Saffron Sam catch himself on.  Can you imagine a coaching session dedicated to "Faux infuriation" as you say. 
"Right lads be mean angry and upset for 20 seconds on, then 20 seconds off, I want to see screamin and roarin till failure.  Jeez they must have some mighty training sessions around Glen 3rds.

A poster on this thread asked for a neutral opinion. I gave him mine, backed it up with another example and a third party poster decides to attempt to out me. By that I mean give away my identity, rather than my sexuality.

You know you're winning an argument when the sum of the opponent's argument is "I'm going to out you". rrhf joins a rogue's gallery containing the likes of milltown row2 and bannside who have withered and resorted to such tactics. Although, I have no idea who rrhf thinks I am as I have never played for Glen 3rds. Nor am I likely to. I can only assume the f in his / her handle is short for fool. Or fcukwit.

I also think it's fair to assume that Glen 3rds rarely, if ever, trained. In fact iirc Paddy Heaney did an article in the Irish News describing how their manager would buy a carry out for the man of the match each week. But what you can be sure of is that at meeting before big 3rds matches that team would have been coached to attempt to influence the referee - in the same way that every team playing this weekend (including Tyrone) will be coached to influence / con the referee. If rrhf doesn't realise or understand this then he / she clearly has no understanding of how the game is played. Tyrone didn't become the second best team of the last decade by sticking to the rules of Gaelic football; they bent and manipulated them to gain an advantage.

One thing that Mickey Harte's Tyrone team has is almost absolute discipline, excluding Kevin Hughes's aberration against Derry in 2006 and Ryan McMenamin every time he crossed the white line. In a extremely disciplined team, Philip Jordan is an extremely disciplined player. There is no way that whatever happened prior to the Marsden / Jordan incident was serious enough to warrant such a reaction from the Moy ace.

My opinion (which as a neutral, Fuzzman asked for in the first place) remains that Jordan's involvement in the Marsden incident was solely an attempt to get an opponent sent off and that such tactics were / are coached by the Tyrone management. No amount of veiled threats by rrhf and his / her ilk to make my real name and club known will change that opinion. It also remains my opinion that such tactics are an intrinsic part of Gaelic football at all levels. It also remains my opinion that Jordan's career can't and shouldn't be defined or overshadowed by this single incident - he wouldn't hold a candle to, for example, Johnny McGurk in terms of wing half back skulduggery.

Cant argue with any of that.

Has anyone here been coached on how to get an opponent sent off?

QuoteJordan's involvement in the Marsden incident was solely an attempt to get an opponent sent off and that such tactics were / are coached by the Tyrone management.

This part ruins your essay.

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 09:07:22 AM

Quote from: rrhf on April 07, 2011, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on April 07, 2011, 08:32:51 AM

Quote from: rrhf on April 06, 2011, 04:54:14 PM
'faux' infuriation.
Would Saffron Sam catch himself on.  Can you imagine a coaching session dedicated to "Faux infuriation" as you say. 
"Right lads be mean angry and upset for 20 seconds on, then 20 seconds off, I want to see screamin and roarin till failure.  Jeez they must have some mighty training sessions around Glen 3rds.

A poster on this thread asked for a neutral opinion. I gave him mine, backed it up with another example and a third party poster decides to attempt to out me. By that I mean give away my identity, rather than my sexuality.

You know you're winning an argument when the sum of the opponent's argument is "I'm going to out you". rrhf joins a rogue's gallery containing the likes of milltown row2 and bannside who have withered and resorted to such tactics. Although, I have no idea who rrhf thinks I am as I have never played for Glen 3rds. Nor am I likely to. I can only assume the f in his / her handle is short for fool. Or fcukwit.

I also think it's fair to assume that Glen 3rds rarely, if ever, trained. In fact iirc Paddy Heaney did an article in the Irish News describing how their manager would buy a carry out for the man of the match each week. But what you can be sure of is that at meeting before big 3rds matches that team would have been coached to attempt to influence the referee - in the same way that every team playing this weekend (including Tyrone) will be coached to influence / con the referee. If rrhf doesn't realise or understand this then he / she clearly has no understanding of how the game is played. Tyrone didn't become the second best team of the last decade by sticking to the rules of Gaelic football; they bent and manipulated them to gain an advantage.

One thing that Mickey Harte's Tyrone team has is almost absolute discipline, excluding Kevin Hughes's aberration against Derry in 2006 and Ryan McMenamin every time he crossed the white line. In a extremely disciplined team, Philip Jordan is an extremely disciplined player. There is no way that whatever happened prior to the Marsden / Jordan incident was serious enough to warrant such a reaction from the Moy ace.

My opinion (which as a neutral, Fuzzman asked for in the first place) remains that Jordan's involvement in the Marsden incident was solely an attempt to get an opponent sent off and that such tactics were / are coached by the Tyrone management. No amount of veiled threats by rrhf and his / her ilk to make my real name and club known will change that opinion. It also remains my opinion that such tactics are an intrinsic part of Gaelic football at all levels. It also remains my opinion that Jordan's career can't and shouldn't be defined or overshadowed by this single incident - he wouldn't hold a candle to, for example, Johnny McGurk in terms of wing half back skulduggery.

Cant argue with any of that.

Has anyone here been coached on how to get an opponent sent off?

Me. It was when I played for Tyrone.

Quote from: ONeill on April 07, 2011, 09:18:18 AM

QuoteJordan's involvement in the Marsden incident was solely an attempt to get an opponent sent off and that such tactics were / are coached by the Tyrone management.

This part ruins your essay.

I thought it would have been this part.

QuoteTyrone didn't become the second best team of the last decade by sticking to the rules of Gaelic football

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 09:07:22 AM
Has anyone here been coached on how to get an opponent sent off?

I had a friend who played for a local McCrory cup school. The coach, who was a respected former county footballer, taught them how to foul a man in such a way that he would fall a few seconds after the contact so it looked like his own fault and he taught them how to make it look like they had been struck so that the ref would take action. My friend played the team but told me he thought the attitude was disgusting.

So it clearly does happen. But I cast no aspersions from this on Tyrone, Armagh or anyone else being debated here.

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:40:09 AM

Quote from: Puckoon on April 07, 2011, 05:40:41 AM
I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

when have either of these players attempted diving, cheap verbals or intimidatory tactics to gain an "edge" ?  (not to mention over the top triumphalism) ...also, Mike McCarthy?...what planet are you on ? he's the LAST player that would engage in that sort of crap.

Whatever about footballing abilities, Mike McCarthy and Philip Jordan are on different planets when it comes to sportsmanship. You could not have picked a more extreme comparison if you tried !

So this is the gospel according to Kerry?
Wise up.
Did you ever hear the one about Pedro the sheep shagger?

PJ will not be remembered for the 2003 inccident. He will be remembered for his consistent contribution to one of the greatest teams in the history of football. The facts speak for themselves, medals at every level, all-stars etc...last year he was player of the year by a country mile, or a Kerrymans ego, depending on which is the bigger of the two...
We are all entitled to our opinions - but i suspect the Marsden / Jordan spat, will not be a career defining moment for either player.

Personally I would like to see PJ continue and give Cork a rattle again this year. If he retires, i wish him all the best adn good luck with An Mhaigh.

your precious "PJ" was a mediocre player of questionable character. When all is said and done he will be a brief question mark in some drunken quiz about some lad that got another lad sent off in some nondescript final. That's all he'll ever amount to.

he can only aspire to the greatness of  Seamus Moynihan.

3 All-Ireland Senior medals & 4 All-Stars would seem to suggest otherwise... U cant argue with that..

I see the Kerry people are still bitter over the 2005 & 2008 finals...

Tut tut...

Philip never let a cub give him the runaround in Croke Park.  Moynihan in AIF 2002 was roasted like a pig on a spit. 

In fairness got a fair few roastings in his time. Excellent attacking wing back, yes. defensively? v poor. Whoever picked Mike McCarthy as a kindred spirit in terms of playacting and unsporting behaviour must me nuts - did they mean O'Mahoney?

Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2011, 10:16:28 AM

In fairness got a fair few roastings in his time. Excellent attacking wing back, yes. defensively? v poor. Whoever picked Mike McCarthy as a kindred spirit in terms of playacting and unsporting behaviour must me nuts - did they mean O'Mahoney?

you know we are talking about philip jordan, right??

Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2011, 10:16:28 AM

In fairness got a fair few roastings in his time. Excellent attacking wing back, yes. defensively? v poor. Whoever picked Mike McCarthy as a kindred spirit in terms of playacting and unsporting behaviour must me nuts - did they mean O'Mahoney?

LMAO-post of the year! This should be fun; Who roasted him then? Go on, cheer my morning up.

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 08:04:57 AM
PJ will not be remembered for the 2003 inccident. He will be remembered for his consistent contribution to one of the greatest teams in the history of football.

Ah feckit, now I'm totally confused.

Quote from: PAULD123 on April 07, 2011, 09:41:51 AM
I had a friend who played for a local McCrory cup school. The coach, who was a respected former county footballer, taught them how to foul a man in such a way that he would fall a few seconds after the contact so it looked like his own fault

:o  Who was the coach? Paul Daniels?

Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2011, 10:16:28 AM

In fairness got a fair few roastings in his time. Excellent attacking wing back, yes. defensively? v poor. Whoever picked Mike McCarthy as a kindred spirit in terms of playacting and unsporting behaviour must me nuts - did they mean O'Mahoney?

Awww now we're just decending into nonsense now. Have to say if Armagh wans were questioning PJ's sportsman ship I'd give them a by ball as I can understand the annoyance from 2003. But anyone trying to questioning PJ's ability I'd have to come to the conclusion that they know Feck all about football.

Quote from: tyssam5 on April 06, 2011, 06:21:39 PM

Quote from: mackers on April 06, 2011, 03:44:54 PM

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 06, 2011, 03:18:25 PM
I can see The Armagh lads will never apportion any blame to Marsden so I will agree to disagree with them yet again on the incident. I wonder had Gormley not blocked that goal chance and Armagh won the game would they be so bitter with Philly or is it cos he lives so near the border and went to school in Armagh as Dooher did in Derry.

I don't know about any other Armagh posters but I would refuse to put any blame at Marsden's door. He played minor and senior inter county football for Armagh from 1992 to 2007 without blemish. Some of our other players did get involved in some unsavoury incidents in their day but Marsden did not. He is as honest a player as you could care to meet. To see him in tears at the post match banquet in 2003 left a lasting memory for me.
The result of the game has no bearing on my feelings on the matter anyway. Tyrone posters seem to assume we all blame this incident on the final result of the game but any Armagh people that do are in the minority.

Hope you gave him a hanky?

No but boys like you normally keep the tissues at the ready..................you could have helped him.

Quote from: supersarsfields on April 07, 2011, 11:29:04 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on April 07, 2011, 10:16:28 AM

In fairness got a fair few roastings in his time. Excellent attacking wing back, yes. defensively? v poor. Whoever picked Mike McCarthy as a kindred spirit in terms of playacting and unsporting behaviour must me nuts - did they mean O'Mahoney?

Awww now we're just decending into nonsense now. Have to say if Armagh wans were questioning PJ's sportsman ship I'd give them a by ball as I can understand the annoyance from 2003. But anyone trying to questioning PJ's ability I'd have to come to the conclusion that they know Feck all about football.

SS meet Duffleking-Duffleking meet SS.

To see him in tears at the post match banquet in 2003 left a lasting memory for me. - Mackers.

and to this day you have sought revenge in his name..... by being a keyboard warrior capable of punching in 100 words a minute. 
Listen If he had kept his cool and laughed in Jiordans face instead of punching him in the gob and he stayed on the field and Armagh had still lost -  to be honest I think there would still be tears at the losing banquet.  there always in.
I think Marsden had a fantastic career and to me his major gripe in his career would probably be to be robbed of man of the match in the 2002 final, by his own player when Marsden was the best player on the pitch.   I certainly wont just remember him for getting the line in 03, and in the same way you guys shouldnt either.  He got a few breaks and a few knocks in his time, had a lot of success in his career from schools to county, and in fairness he got a lot out of football,  there were others less fortunate than he was out of football who shouldnt have gripes either.   

Tyrone star Philip Jordan will focus on club football for the foreseeable future - but he has not yet formally retired from inter-county football.

Rumours of Jordan's withdrawal from Mickey Harte's panel surfaced earlier this week, a day after his first appearance of the year as a substitute in the Allianz National League win over Kildare.

Harte subsequently dismissed the speculation as internet gossip - but it appears there is no smoke without fire, with Jordan absent from Tyrone training on Tuesday night and county chairman Ciaran MacLochlainn now indicating that the Moy clubman will not feature in the remainder of the National League.



Quoted in the Irish Examiner, he said, "He is going to try and get himself back to match fitness by concentrating on playing club football at the moment. He is a quality player at the end of the day."

www.hoganstand.com/tyrone

Confirmed. Great news-bring the ACL on.

Outside of Gormley, sure you tyronies wouldn't know a good defender if one bit you in the arse. The blanket defence came about through an attempt to not leave any of your defenders having to tackle on their own. Inten years ye have only produced one top quality defender worthy of the description.

Jordan was a fine athlete, attacker and footballer but a poor defender. that's why he'll never be regarded inthe class of ano'se or an Meehan. Those other guys comfortably dealt with the opposition's biggest h forward threat. tyrone just doubled up on it.

I'm sure noone from tyrone will care but i'll remember him as a v good attacking wing back who did a fierce amount of diving and crying to the ref.

Quote from: Hardy on April 07, 2011, 11:03:07 AM

Quote from: PAULD123 on April 07, 2011, 09:41:51 AM
I had a friend who played for a local McCrory cup school. The coach, who was a respected former county footballer, taught them how to foul a man in such a way that he would fall a few seconds after the contact so it looked like his own fault

:o  Who was the coach? Paul Daniels?

I'm not willing to say as its not fair to tarnish someone's name without it being necessary. It wouldn't alter my point it would only start an argument over what people think of a given individual.

Either the bitterness is blinding you DK or as I'm beginning to think, your grasp on football matters are seriously limited.
For a poor defender I can't think of any games of hand where he was skinned?

The blanket defense is a none issue as I can remember plenty of our defenders getting skinned in games despite the "blanket defense". But not Jordan.

I would actually find it hard to believe anyone could view Jordan as a poor defender. But I suppose opinions are like assholes we've all got one.

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 08:58:53 AM
Fact is Marsden had lost it-whatever Gormley said to him he digged him and then Jordan made a charge at the Lurgan man. Did Jordan go down too easily, yes. Was Marsden at fault, yes. Will the Armagh team be remembered in 20 years time, no.

I remember all the All-Ireland winners and runners-up from the last 50 years, any GAA fan worth his salt should at least remember the winners and runners-up from the last 30 years.
Seeing that Armagh won in 2002 and were the runners-up in the first all same province final in 2003, then it's safe to say they'll still be remembered for at least 50 years.

Quote from: blanketattack on April 07, 2011, 12:33:08 PM

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 08:58:53 AM
Fact is Marsden had lost it-whatever Gormley said to him he digged him and then Jordan made a charge at the Lurgan man. Did Jordan go down too easily, yes. Was Marsden at fault, yes. Will the Armagh team be remembered in 20 years time, no.

I remember all the All-Ireland winners and runners-up from the last 50 years, any GAA fan worth his salt should at least remember the winners and runners-up from the last 30 years.
Seeing that Armagh won in 2002 and were the runners-up in the first all same province final in 2003, then it's safe to say they'll still be remembered for at least 50 years.

Will they be remembered as a great team? Will they be remembered as a good team?

Quote from: rrhf on April 07, 2011, 11:44:30 AM
To see him in tears at the post match banquet in 2003 left a lasting memory for me. - Mackers.

and to this day you have sought revenge in his name..... by being a keyboard warrior capable of punching in 100 words a minute. 
Listen If he had kept his cool and laughed in Jiordans face instead of punching him in the gob and he stayed on the field and Armagh had still lost -  to be honest I think there would still be tears at the losing banquet.   there always in.
I think Marsden had a fantastic career and to me his major gripe in his career would probably be to be robbed of man of the match in the 2002 final, by his own player when Marsden was the best player on the pitch.   I certainly wont just remember him for getting the line in 03, and in the same way you guys shouldnt either.  He got a few breaks and a few knocks in his time, had a lot of success in his career from schools to county, and in fairness he got a lot out of football,  there were others less fortunate than he was out of football who shouldnt have gripes either.   

The highlighted bit is a load of crap. It was clear that the guy felt that he had let his team mates down (which of course he hadn't).
You are right when you said that he had a magnificent career and Armagh supporters don't solely remember him for 03 final, nothing could be further from the truth.

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 12:52:52 PM

Quote from: blanketattack on April 07, 2011, 12:33:08 PM

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 08:58:53 AM
Fact is Marsden had lost it-whatever Gormley said to him he digged him and then Jordan made a charge at the Lurgan man. Did Jordan go down too easily, yes. Was Marsden at fault, yes. Will the Armagh team be remembered in 20 years time, no.

I remember all the All-Ireland winners and runners-up from the last 50 years, any GAA fan worth his salt should at least remember the winners and runners-up from the last 30 years.
Seeing that Armagh won in 2002 and were the runners-up in the first all same province final in 2003, then it's safe to say they'll still be remembered for at least 50 years.

Will they be remembered as a great team? Will they be remembered as a good team?

We know that they won't be by you, your bitterness is shining through your posts.

Im not bitter at all- I was in the City Hotel Grounds on the night of the 2002 homecoming. I enjoyed it immensely, the buckfast was flowing. Were you in Omagh in 2003?

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 01:16:27 PM
Im not bitter at all- I was in the City Hotel Grounds on the night of the 2002 homecoming. I enjoyed it immensely, the buckfast was flowing. Were you in Omagh in 2003?

No I was in Armagh welcoming home the defeated Armagh team. Does that make me bitter?

Quote from: mackers on April 07, 2011, 01:19:45 PM

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 01:16:27 PM
Im not bitter at all- I was in the City Hotel Grounds on the night of the 2002 homecoming. I enjoyed it immensely, the buckfast was flowing. Were you in Omagh in 2003?

No I was in Armagh welcoming home the defeated Armagh team. Does that make me bitter?

Were you there in 2005 or 2008?  :D

Quote from: supersarsfields on April 07, 2011, 12:20:03 PM
Either the bitterness is blinding you DK or as I'm beginning to think, your grasp on football matters are seriously limited.
For a poor defender I can't think of any games of hand where he was skinned?

The blanket defense is a none issue as I can remember plenty of our defenders getting skinned in games despite the "blanket defense". But not Jordan.

I would actually find it hard to believe anyone could view Jordan as a poor defender. But I suppose opinions are like assholes we've all got one.

Only game I can remember Jordan getting skinned was against Kildare in 2009. The rest of his circa 60 championship games he was in the top 5 performers every game.

Great servant. But if hes gone hes gone.

The King is Dead, Long Live the King.

Quote from: Hilltresk on April 07, 2011, 01:28:47 PM

Quote from: supersarsfields on April 07, 2011, 12:20:03 PM
Either the bitterness is blinding you DK or as I'm beginning to think, your grasp on football matters are seriously limited.
For a poor defender I can't think of any games of hand where he was skinned?

The blanket defense is a none issue as I can remember plenty of our defenders getting skinned in games despite the "blanket defense". But not Jordan.

I would actually find it hard to believe anyone could view Jordan as a poor defender. But I suppose opinions are like assholes we've all got one.

Only game I can remember Jordan getting skinned was against Kildare in 2009. The rest of his circa 60 championship games he was in the top 5 performers every game.

Great servant. But if hes gone hes gone.

The King is Dead, Long Live the King.

100% agree, he did have a ropey first half in that game. I think Tyrone all over were not great that day.

We do have a ready made replacement in the making within the club. Eunan Deeney, the 2010 minor number 7 possesses all the qualities of Jordan with one exceptional addition to his repitoire. He is level headed like Philly, great feet also. He is very young yet but I will refer you all back to this post in two/three years time and be very smug when he makes the step up. There is great talent within the county and the retiring of one of past heores should be a time for celebration not sadness.

 It was clear that the guy felt that he had let his team mates down (which of course he hadn't). - Mackers.
Thanks for bringing this long running debate to a close... So to recap in your own words, in the immediate aftermath of the final you state that the main man himself (not as spectator) felt he was responsible for his own sending off.  At what point did the story change, to the revisionist interpretation ie. in the brackets.  Did he actually change his mind at all or was it just the rest of youse, keeping this thing running years later.  Im glad we sorted this out and we can get back to letting the man retire in peace.       

Quote from: rrhf on April 07, 2011, 01:36:13 PM
It was clear that the guy felt that he had let his team mates down (which of course he hadn't). - Mackers.
Thanks for bringing this long running debate to a close... So to recap in your own words, in the immediate aftermath of the final you state that the main man himself (not as spectator) felt he was responsible for his own sending off.  At what point did the story change, to the revisionist interpretation ie. in the brackets.  Did he actually change his mind at all or was it just the rest of youse, keeping this thing running years later.  Im glad we sorted this out and we can get back to letting the man retire in peace.       

Let me explain very slowly............he felt that he had let his team mates down by getting SENT OFF NOT BECAUSE HE PUNCHED JORDAN............muppet!!

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 01:24:54 PM

Quote from: mackers on April 07, 2011, 01:19:45 PM

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 07, 2011, 01:16:27 PM
Im not bitter at all- I was in the City Hotel Grounds on the night of the 2002 homecoming. I enjoyed it immensely, the buckfast was flowing. Were you in Omagh in 2003?

No I was in Armagh welcoming home the defeated Armagh team. Does that make me bitter?

Were you there in 2005 or 2008?  :D

Are you insinuating that I am bitter about 2003? Please quote me back anywhere on this thread where I have indicated as such. I have simply tried to defend Marsden...................

Quote from: DuffleKing on March 03, 2010, 01:54:58 PM


What the fcuk is a number 7? is it a wing back or some other thing?

Off the top of my head, wing backs from ulster alone in the last ten years that are all round better than jordan, in no particular order...

Sean Kelly
Justin Crozier
Andrew McCann
Aidan O'Rourke
Ciaran McKeever
Gerard O'Kane,
Kevin Cassidy
Ryan McCluskey
Damien Mone

That doesn't make Jordan a bad footballer, his perceived abilities are simply enhanced by how well he fits into a great tyrone team.

Great spot Bensars. Absolutely shows him up for what he is.

Funny as f**k post, good players he quoted but no-one in their right minds would make comparisons between Jordan and the once quoted.

**Bensar's post was removed but included the above post from Duffleking. Try not to laugh too much.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 04, 2011, 09:29:42 PM
Mr Consistent has been his main label over the past 10 years and he has come back time and time again from bad injuries but it sounds like it has all caught up with him this time and he has possibly been advised to not play any more.

Shame on those who aren't man enough to admit he has been one of the best wing backs over the past 10 years and has shown a great will to win. He's a tough nut too but was never purposely a dirty player.
I think if he didn't live so near the Armagh border he wouldn't haven't had the same hatred towards him from the Apple Munchers.

Thanks Phillip for your huge efforts for the Red Hand cause and I hope you enjoy your club football should you play on.

You are straying into "freestater" territory here with this apple muncher business!! However like most Armagh Fans I would agree that Jordan has been immense for Tyrone. The out come of  '03 incident whilst of his making had more to do with poor refereeing and even worse from two partially sighted umpires.

Quote from: Final Whistle on April 05, 2011, 09:56:54 PM

Quote from: you take er! on April 05, 2011, 09:29:39 PM
As an Armagh man i have admired several Tyrone players; Peter Canavan, Eugene McKenna, Fay Devlin, Sean Cavanagh. I recognise that phillip Jordan was a ver good player but he does not have my admiration. probably like many Armagh supporters when i think of him i think of him falling like a ronaldo's sister in 2003 final after he was the one who made a tear for Diarmuid Marsden. Seeing a grown man rolling on the ground holding his face after hardly being touched was embarrassing.
No matter what he did in the years following that i could not look at him without scowling. Hope he continuesto have a good club career and is prob a nice lad, but for me what sticks out is him diving it made me sick and still does.

will be a miss for Tyrone.

Marsden assaulted him-disgraceful antics from him. Who did Marsden think he was-Neil Lennon? Same breeding i suppose.

Talking about dives-a bit rich from the orchard "faithful"-what about O'Rourke's 5.5 after being flicked by Mulligans boot in 05 or his older brother doing the peek a boo act when lying down in the build up to the penalty.

To the Armagh faithful-dont throw those stones you bitter bitter men.

Defenders never get the recognition they deserve. Fact is Jordan could have played from 2-15. He was that good that he was never considered being dropped/rotated/played out of position.

The number 7 has his IMO will take something very special to fill it.

This is a disgraceful post and a slur on a fine and honest footballer from some one who obviously is as blind as the umpires at the 03 final...Watch it again in slow motion. References to "breediing" are a bit rich coming from someone who posts this type of drivel.

I always laugh when I read what Jordan said about the incident...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/marsden-wants-red-reprieve-195881.html

I'm not so sure
Depends what article you read

Jordan's Victim wants revenge
http://dimemag.com/2009/09/jordans-favorite-victim-wants-revenge-kanye-west-loses-it/ (http://dimemag.com/2009/09/jordans-favorite-victim-wants-revenge-kanye-west-loses-it/)

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 09:57:31 AM

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:40:09 AM

Quote from: Puckoon on April 07, 2011, 05:40:41 AM
I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

when have either of these players attempted diving, cheap verbals or intimidatory tactics to gain an "edge" ?  (not to mention over the top triumphalism) ...also, Mike McCarthy?...what planet are you on ? he's the LAST player that would engage in that sort of crap.

Whatever about footballing abilities, Mike McCarthy and Philip Jordan are on different planets when it comes to sportsmanship. You could not have picked a more extreme comparison if you tried !

So this is the gospel according to Kerry?
Wise up.
Did you ever hear the one about Pedro the sheep shagger?

PJ will not be remembered for the 2003 inccident. He will be remembered for his consistent contribution to one of the greatest teams in the history of football. The facts speak for themselves, medals at every level, all-stars etc...last year he was player of the year by a country mile, or a Kerrymans ego, depending on which is the bigger of the two...
We are all entitled to our opinions - but i suspect the Marsden / Jordan spat, will not be a career defining moment for either player.

Personally I would like to see PJ continue and give Cork a rattle again this year. If he retires, i wish him all the best adn good luck with An Mhaigh.

your precious "PJ" was a mediocre player of questionable character. When all is said and done he will be a brief question mark in some drunken quiz about some lad that got another lad sent off in some nondescript final. That's all he'll ever amount to.

he can only aspire to the greatness of  Seamus Moynihan.

I know that you are trying to be controversial - which is fair enough, so I'll ignore your comment about Philip Jordan's character.
What you need to do is have a look at his list of awards, medals, all stars - he might even be on par with some of the great good and average kerrymen from the past. He stands out as an excellent player from any decade from any generation, and in Ulster and most certainly in Tyrone, he will be remember ed for his play, defending, scoring and all thats relevant when talking about a players greatness.
As for having questionable character, it seems you are the best man to comment on this subject

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 06:14:40 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 09:57:31 AM

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:40:09 AM

Quote from: Puckoon on April 07, 2011, 05:40:41 AM
I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

when have either of these players attempted diving, cheap verbals or intimidatory tactics to gain an "edge" ?  (not to mention over the top triumphalism) ...also, Mike McCarthy?...what planet are you on ? he's the LAST player that would engage in that sort of crap.

Whatever about footballing abilities, Mike McCarthy and Philip Jordan are on different planets when it comes to sportsmanship. You could not have picked a more extreme comparison if you tried !

So this is the gospel according to Kerry?
Wise up.
Did you ever hear the one about Pedro the sheep shagger?

PJ will not be remembered for the 2003 inccident. He will be remembered for his consistent contribution to one of the greatest teams in the history of football. The facts speak for themselves, medals at every level, all-stars etc...last year he was player of the year by a country mile, or a Kerrymans ego, depending on which is the bigger of the two...
We are all entitled to our opinions - but i suspect the Marsden / Jordan spat, will not be a career defining moment for either player.

Personally I would like to see PJ continue and give Cork a rattle again this year. If he retires, i wish him all the best adn good luck with An Mhaigh.

your precious "PJ" was a mediocre player of questionable character. When all is said and done he will be a brief question mark in some drunken quiz about some lad that got another lad sent off in some nondescript final. That's all he'll ever amount to.

he can only aspire to the greatness of  Seamus Moynihan.

I know that you are trying to be controversial - which is fair enough, so I'll ignore your comment about Philip Jordan's character.
What you need to do is have a look at his list of awards, medals, all stars - he might even be on par with some of the great good and average kerrymen from the past. He stands out as an excellent player from any decade from any generation, and in Ulster and most certainly in Tyrone, he will be remember ed for his play, defending, scoring and all thats relevant when talking about a players greatness.
As for having questionable character, it seems you are the best man to comment on this subject

I am talking about his character on the pitch which is fair comment. Players should be judged on how they behave on the pitch and when you compare Jordan and his antics to the likes of Mike McCarthy and Seamus Moynihan then he is sadly lacking. Also, as was pointed out, he was not a good natural footballer, his deficiencies were disguised by the blanket defence.

How does his behaviour fare out when compared to paul galvin or aidan o'mahony? Or tadhg kenelly?

Tyrone v Meath – Team

1 Pascal McConnell – An Baile Nua
2 Martin Swift – Coill an Chlochair
3 Joe McMahon – An Omaigh
4 Damian McCaul – Domhnach Mór
5 Davy Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin
6 Conor Gormley – An Charraig Mhór
7 Ryan McMenamin – An Droim Mhór
8 Kevin Hughes – Cill Íseal   
9 Aidan Cassidy – Eochar
10 Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh
11 Brian McGuigan -Ard Bo
12 Sean Cavanagh – An Mhaigh
13 Martin Penrose – Achadh Uí Aráin
14 Mark Donnelly – An Charraig Mhór
15 Owen Mulligan – An Chorra Chriochach
   
16 John Devine – Aireagal Chiaráin
17 Brian Dooher – Clann na nGael
18 Philip Jordan – An Mhaigh
19 Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin
20 Tommy McGuigan – Ard Bó
21 Stephen McNally – Oileán a'Ghuail
22 Sean O'Neill – An Droim Mhór
23 Stephen O'Neill – Clann na nGael
24 P J Quinn – Baile na Móna

See he is named in squad for this weekend.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 06:14:40 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 09:57:31 AM

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:40:09 AM

Quote from: Puckoon on April 07, 2011, 05:40:41 AM
I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

when have either of these players attempted diving, cheap verbals or intimidatory tactics to gain an "edge" ?  (not to mention over the top triumphalism) ...also, Mike McCarthy?...what planet are you on ? he's the LAST player that would engage in that sort of crap.

Whatever about footballing abilities, Mike McCarthy and Philip Jordan are on different planets when it comes to sportsmanship. You could not have picked a more extreme comparison if you tried !

So this is the gospel according to Kerry?
Wise up.
Did you ever hear the one about Pedro the sheep shagger?

PJ will not be remembered for the 2003 inccident. He will be remembered for his consistent contribution to one of the greatest teams in the history of football. The facts speak for themselves, medals at every level, all-stars etc...last year he was player of the year by a country mile, or a Kerrymans ego, depending on which is the bigger of the two...
We are all entitled to our opinions - but i suspect the Marsden / Jordan spat, will not be a career defining moment for either player.

Personally I would like to see PJ continue and give Cork a rattle again this year. If he retires, i wish him all the best adn good luck with An Mhaigh.

your precious "PJ" was a mediocre player of questionable character. When all is said and done he will be a brief question mark in some drunken quiz about some lad that got another lad sent off in some nondescript final. That's all he'll ever amount to.

he can only aspire to the greatness of  Seamus Moynihan.

I know that you are trying to be controversial - which is fair enough, so I'll ignore your comment about Philip Jordan's character.
What you need to do is have a look at his list of awards, medals, all stars - he might even be on par with some of the great good and average kerrymen from the past. He stands out as an excellent player from any decade from any generation, and in Ulster and most certainly in Tyrone, he will be remember ed for his play, defending, scoring and all thats relevant when talking about a players greatness.
As for having questionable character, it seems you are the best man to comment on this subject

I am talking about his character on the pitch which is fair comment. Players should be judged on how they behave on the pitch and when you compare Jordan and his antics to the likes of Mike McCarthy and Seamus Moynihan then he is sadly lacking. Also, as was pointed out, he was not a good natural footballer, his deficiencies were disguised by the blanket defence.

Here you go Mike, I've just the thing for you here, might even disguise the sheep smell.

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Obsession-Calvin-Klein-Parfum/dp/B004SBEOKO

You can come back with your patented 'Brit boy' response when you're ready.

Quote from: blanketattack on April 07, 2011, 03:20:49 PM
I always laugh when I read what Jordan said about the incident...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/marsden-wants-red-reprieve-195881.html

Does he tell a joke ?

Quote from: Gaffer on April 07, 2011, 10:22:20 PM

Quote from: blanketattack on April 07, 2011, 03:20:49 PM
I always laugh when I read what Jordan said about the incident...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/marsden-wants-red-reprieve-195881.html

Does he tell a joke ?

He says: "Its the way I fell 'em".

AGGGHHHH!!!!! Who to believe!! These lads??.....

Quote from: up tyrone on April 04, 2011, 06:52:48 PM
Tyrones Philip Jordan has announced his retirement from intercounty football this evening,he informed Mickey Harte of his decision this afternoon.

Quote from: up tyrone on April 04, 2011, 07:03:54 PM
Definitely true,will be headlines in the papers 2moro i can assure you.

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on April 04, 2011, 08:31:48 PM
Definitely true. A great servant for Tyrone.

Quote from: Muzz on April 05, 2011, 11:45:06 AM
http://twitter.com/bbcchampionship/status/55191578096050176 (http://twitter.com/bbcchampionship/status/55191578096050176)

BBC Championship has it on their twitter page.

Quote from: rrhf on April 05, 2011, 11:53:40 PM
Moy County contingent now down to 2.

Or Mickey Harte!?....
"That's not true (regarding retirement), it's an internet thing at the minute, there's no other story to it," said a clearly irritated Harte.

Maybe he's just retired from the internet

Harte has played a blinder on this one. Christ he can manage his players extremely well. Without doubt Jordan pulled the plug on Monday, Harte has gone in and told him to take time to consider that is why nothing official came from the player himself. By naming him in his squad Harte has threw a complete curveball and it will be interesting to see whether or not Jordan is there. I've also heard that Jordan has told Harte that he will not be missing any starred Moy games and he was willing to quit the county if he was forced to do so. Im confused.

Could well be that he is doing what Enda McGinley did last year, spending a few months with the club to get hunger / sharpness back before returning later in the year.

This thread has raised a few interesting issues.

Our mainstream media cannot be trusted and are lazy. The BBC Championship twitter account categorically stated that Jordan had retired. Almost every southern newspaper simply used this website as a source for a story in which they presented nothing over and beyond the speculation on here. The Irish News kept their power dry and refused to address this issue until they heard something from either horse. That was commendable.

Secondly, Harte was bending the truth a little when he said it was a non-story. It was a story with legs. Maybe Jordan made a decision to rethink his value to the squad in terms of his own mental and physical application to it. There are a couple of Moy stalwarts on here who know a lot more but will not betray their clubman. I'd imagine Mickey is trying hard to keep Philip on board but will not admit that. Does he owe us honesty here? Maybe not.

Lastly, I feel a bit crap about the attention given (me included) to one lad's position as regards his county career. Maybe Philip isn't aware of this site but this thread says a lot about the microscopic nature of inter-county football.

Well said ONeill. We all are guilty of having probing analysis of these guys lives but never saying it to their face.
We all love a bit of gossip as long as its not about us. I'm not convinced Phillip will be in Navan. He missed both training sessions this week and whilst we'd all love to see him work his ass of all year to entertainm us I think we need to respect his wishes as he has already given a lot to the cause.

I doubt that he will be in Navan in Sunday. However, the fact he didn't come out and confirm his retirement would give some hope that he'll be back. Would be a huge loss to Tyrone if he quits, as others have said he has been one of the Tyrone's most consistent and best players over the last ten years.

He owes Tyrone nothing. However, it would in my opinion be a strange time to quit if its not injury related. He is in good shape and Tyrone are performing well. Its April so we're now entering the best time of the year and for the sake of a few months you'd think he'd want one last crack at Sam. Strange he came on Sunday and then made the decision.

Hard to know if its related to the starred club games. There's only 4 of them and they are unlikely to make or break the Moys season. Hopefully he'll be back but if not we should be grateful for what he's done for Tyrone.

so is it offical so if hes not retired we can go back to call him a diving cheat again?

Quote from: hardstation on April 09, 2011, 11:00:14 PM
Oh, Philly Jordan you are my darling
Come sit you down upon my knee
Come tell to me the very reason
Why you are leaving the Tyrone team

:D :D

hardstation. you aint my favourite poster on here by any stretch, but sometimes your one funny hoor and this is one  :D :D quality. Sums everything up perfectly

23 pages about somehing that didn't happen.

Small earthquake in Chile. Not many dead.

Quote from: hardstation on April 09, 2011, 11:00:14 PM
Oh, Philly Jordan you are my darling
Come sit you down upon my knee
Come tell to me the very reason
Why you are leaving  Tyrone (Yipee!)

There; fixed that for ya. ;D

Quote from: tyssam5 on April 07, 2011, 08:54:49 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 06:14:40 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 09:57:31 AM

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on April 07, 2011, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2011, 06:40:09 AM

Quote from: Puckoon on April 07, 2011, 05:40:41 AM
I notice Mike that you didn't mention Thomas O'Se or Mike McCarthy there...

when have either of these players attempted diving, cheap verbals or intimidatory tactics to gain an "edge" ?  (not to mention over the top triumphalism) ...also, Mike McCarthy?...what planet are you on ? he's the LAST player that would engage in that sort of crap.

Whatever about footballing abilities, Mike McCarthy and Philip Jordan are on different planets when it comes to sportsmanship. You could not have picked a more extreme comparison if you tried !

So this is the gospel according to Kerry?
Wise up.
Did you ever hear the one about Pedro the sheep shagger?

PJ will not be remembered for the 2003 inccident. He will be remembered for his consistent contribution to one of the greatest teams in the history of football. The facts speak for themselves, medals at every level, all-stars etc...last year he was player of the year by a country mile, or a Kerrymans ego, depending on which is the bigger of the two...
We are all entitled to our opinions - but i suspect the Marsden / Jordan spat, will not be a career defining moment for either player.

Personally I would like to see PJ continue and give Cork a rattle again this year. If he retires, i wish him all the best adn good luck with An Mhaigh.

your precious "PJ" was a mediocre player of questionable character. When all is said and done he will be a brief question mark in some drunken quiz about some lad that got another lad sent off in some nondescript final. That's all he'll ever amount to.

he can only aspire to the greatness of  Seamus Moynihan.

I know that you are trying to be controversial - which is fair enough, so I'll ignore your comment about Philip Jordan's character.
What you need to do is have a look at his list of awards, medals, all stars - he might even be on par with some of the great good and average kerrymen from the past. He stands out as an excellent player from any decade from any generation, and in Ulster and most certainly in Tyrone, he will be remember ed for his play, defending, scoring and all thats relevant when talking about a players greatness.
As for having questionable character, it seems you are the best man to comment on this subject

I am talking about his character on the pitch which is fair comment. Players should be judged on how they behave on the pitch and when you compare Jordan and his antics to the likes of Mike McCarthy and Seamus Moynihan then he is sadly lacking. Also, as was pointed out, he was not a good natural footballer, his deficiencies were disguised by the blanket defence.

Here you go Mike, I've just the thing for you here, might even disguise the sheep smell.

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Obsession-Calvin-Klein-Parfum/dp/B004SBEOKO

You can come back with your patented 'Brit boy' response when you're ready.

Brit boy ? more like nancy-boy.....please keep your interest in crossdressing and perfume wearing to yourself ::) jesus wept, you Tymoanies are a strange crowd.

Another update -

Seems that hes taking a break - Maybe sometime out to think about his future?

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?locID=1.3.10&article_id=57205 (http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?locID=1.3.10&article_id=57205)

good news for tyrone folk:

Jordan Commits to Tyrone for 2011

After taking a couple of weeks to consider whether or not he wanted to see out the reminder of the season Moy man Philip Jordan has decided to return to training with Tyrone.  It's a tremendous boost for Mickey Harte ahead of the Ulster Championship clash with Monaghan on 5th June.

Jordan has only made one appearance for Tyrone in 2011, coming on as a late substitute in the comfortable win over Kildare.  Speaking exclusively for the Tyrone Website www.TyroneGAA.ie, Jordan was keen to clarify just why he had taken time to consider his future.

"I told Mickey that I would be taking a bit of time in January and February in bid to clear up some groin and hip problems and that's what I did.  I have to say I enjoyed the break."

"We had always pencilled in a return to action somewhere close to the end of the league campaign and that's exactly what happened.  I got ten minutes or so at the end of the Kildare match but the following day I told Mickey I needed a bit more time to consider whether or not I was ready to commit to the rest of the year.  He was happy for me to have that time.

"I know that there are all sorts of stories going around.  I hate to disappoint them people but there's been no row.  It just came down to establishing whether or not I had the hunger for another championship run.  There's a serious amount of commitment needed to prepare for an Ulster Championship and an All Ireland run if you're lucky enough to get that far.  It's not just about turning up to games and togging out.  You need to be mentally prepared. "

"I've been in contact with a few of the boys over the last couple of weeks but I can assure people that the final decision is my own.  I'll be at training on Thursday night and I'll be ready to work hard with the rest of the lads to win a place on the team for the Monaghan game."

http://www.tyronegaa.ie/2011/04/jordan-commits-to-tyrone-for-2011-2/

Great news and as a bonus it should p#ss off some of the bitter apples :)

 :D :D At Final whistle and his bigggggg exclusive

Great to see Jordon "back"

Great news indeed.

It's obvious that Jordan has carefully read the gaaboard and realised that he's not that bad a player and has decided to reward us by giving it another go.

The sad thing about this is that we'll have to suffer another bout of back slapping when he finally hangs up the boots  :(

(Did we talk enough about the retirements of Marsden, McGrane, McGeeny, McConnville, McKeever, McCann, McEntee? Okay, I suppose we did)

Anyway, I hope you made the right decision for Tyrone Mr Jordan.

a jaysus, a great decision altogether, eh...wha? That and the quare stretch in the ayvnins, and them bees hitting the windies, and thon...
how de yis like them apples sheehy, ye hure ye?

Fantastic news, maith an fear sin!

Great to have him back for Tyrone. One of the players Tyrone can't afford to do without if they're serious about winning an All Ireland this year. Not sure if some of the Armagh fans could have coped without seeing their beloved Phily J in a Tyrone jersey again.

YAWN  ::) again...

Ah that's great news

I look forward to meeting Armagh this year

(http://images.football.co.uk/Dynamic/Group/200x200/0db4fcdb389bc10f5e3bc92426cd5c2d.jpg)

Philip Jordan has agreed to be a part of GlobalGAA's InFocus topic for this month. If you would like to ask any questions then please look at the InFocus topic at www.globalgaa.forumotion.net

Philip, How do you feel now about the incident where you dived and feigned injury in order to get another player sent off in an All - Ireland Final?

Quote from: Feckitt on March 07, 2012, 03:07:47 PM
Philip, How do you feel now about the incident where you dived and feigned injury in order to get another player sent off in an All - Ireland Final?

Can we get Colm Cavanagh on the forum too?

Quote from: Feckitt on March 07, 2012, 03:07:47 PM
Philip, How do you feel now about the incident where you dived and feigned injury in order to get another player sent off in an All - Ireland Final?

Jesus wept - it's been 9 years  ;D

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 07, 2012, 07:48:21 PM

Quote from: Feckitt on March 07, 2012, 03:07:47 PM
Philip, How do you feel now about the incident where you dived and feigned injury in order to get another player sent off in an All - Ireland Final?

Jesus wept - it's been 9 years  ;D

And it's been 322 years since the Battle of the Boyne. But I dont see many Orangemen forgetting about that!  ;)

Quote from: BennyCake on March 07, 2012, 09:15:12 PM

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 07, 2012, 07:48:21 PM

Quote from: Feckitt on March 07, 2012, 03:07:47 PM
Philip, How do you feel now about the incident where you dived and feigned injury in order to get another player sent off in an All - Ireland Final?

Jesus wept - it's been 9 years  ;D

And it's been 322 years since the Battle of the Boyne. But I dont see many Orangemen forgetting about that!  ;)

So Armagh supporters and Orangemen have a lot in common?

Wait a minute. It's 16 years or so since 1996 and that still seems very fresh in Tyrone minds :)

What happened in 1996?

Sean Boylan decreed that from henceforth, no matter how much success might follow for them, the bush dwellers would remain the most bitter, yappy + angry people in the land.

Boylan has a lot to answer for.

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 08, 2012, 08:32:19 AM
What happened in 1996?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qEUe-hET4pY/TZyx8TDotsI/AAAAAAAACTs/GJ0xq-JjXl4/s1600/Shrugging.jpg)

An answer has been given to the 2003 All Ireland final on globalgaa for anyone interested.

Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 21, 2012, 12:22:23 PM
An answer has been given to the 2003 All Ireland final on globalgaa for anyone interested.

What question?

Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 12:29:38 PM

Quote from: Armaghgeddon on March 21, 2012, 12:22:23 PM
An answer has been given to the 2003 All Ireland final on globalgaa for anyone interested.

What question?

Is this a game of Jeopardy?

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on March 21, 2012, 02:41:28 PM
http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058 (http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058)

A very good read.

Quote from: Hound on March 21, 2012, 03:00:31 PM

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on March 21, 2012, 02:41:28 PM
http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058 (http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058)

A very good read.

His recollection of '03 must have been lost with the concussion he got in '05. I was there and clearly saw the whole incident and Marsden did not throw any punches. Jordan was the aggressor. That said water long under the bridge and Armagh fans should just let it go.

Very enjoyable read - thanks.

Great read indeed. No shying away from any of the questions either.

Two cross boys took big dives in an All Ireland final on Saturday and there hasn't been a word of disgust from an Armagh poster! Strange after spending 9 years of complaining about Jordan.

He went down like a sack of shite and deserved a yellow for it. There you are, that's twice from me.

Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 21, 2012, 10:36:48 PM
Two cross boys took big dives in an All Ireland final on Saturday and there hasn't been a word of disgust from an Armagh poster! Strange after spending 9 years of complaining about Jordan.

David McKenna is one of the biggest divers you'd see on a football pitch. The guy has great ability and in my view would be much much better if he stayed on his feet.

It's fairly rife in the game unfortunately across club and county - I blame Rupert Murdoch...

Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 04:23:51 PM

Quote from: Hound on March 21, 2012, 03:00:31 PM

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on March 21, 2012, 02:41:28 PM
http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058 (http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058)

A very good read.

His recollection of '03 must have been lost with the concussion he got in '05. I was there and clearly saw the whole incident and Marsden did not throw any punches. Jordan was the aggressor. That said water long under the bridge and Armagh fans should just let it go.

Jordan was the person actually hit - I think that trumps your view from hill 16 or the top deck of the Cusack stand!

Quote from: BennyHarp on March 21, 2012, 11:14:46 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 04:23:51 PM

Quote from: Hound on March 21, 2012, 03:00:31 PM

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on March 21, 2012, 02:41:28 PM
http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058 (http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058)

A very good read.

His recollection of '03 must have been lost with the concussion he got in '05. I was there and clearly saw the whole incident and Marsden did not throw any punches. Jordan was the aggressor. That said water long under the bridge and Armagh fans should just let it go.

Jordan was the person actually hit - I think that trumps your view from hill 16 or the top deck of the Cusack stand!

I was a lot closer than that.

You're Brian White?  :o

Quote from: Applesisapples on March 22, 2012, 12:17:13 PM

Quote from: BennyHarp on March 21, 2012, 11:14:46 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 04:23:51 PM

Quote from: Hound on March 21, 2012, 03:00:31 PM

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on March 21, 2012, 02:41:28 PM
http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058 (http://globalgaa.forumotion.net/t4341-in-focusphilip-jordan-tyrone#90058)

A very good read.

His recollection of '03 must have been lost with the concussion he got in '05. I was there and clearly saw the whole incident and Marsden did not throw any punches. Jordan was the aggressor. That said water long under the bridge and Armagh fans should just let it go.

Jordan was the person actually hit - I think that trumps your view from hill 16 or the top deck of the Cusack stand!

I was a lot closer than that.

Welcome, Diarmuid. The greatest Lurgan man after Billy Cush.