How has this clown lasted as long?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12861336
A decision by the Education Minister not to fund a £15m new school for Loreto Grammar in Omagh was "an abuse of power", the High Court has ruled.
Mr Justice McCloskey held that an unjustifiable breach of trust had occurred in the case involving the school's bid for a new building on its existing site.
A new premises was promised by a previous education minister in 2004.
However, this decision was reversed by Catriona Ruane.
The minister said the school would instead be re-built as part of a multi-school complex at Omagh's former Lisanelly Army camp.
Justice McCloskey delivered his assessment on Friday as Loreto Grammar won its judicial review over the alleged reneging by Ms Ruane and her department officials on a commitment for funding.
He said: "In my view, the unfairness to the governors and those whom they represent is profound and palpable."
The case centred on £14.6m of investment the school believed it was promised in 2004 through a public private partnership (PPP) for a new build.
It was announced by the then direct-rule minister Barry Gardiner as part of a major expansion plan for schools across Northern Ireland.
Since then, however, proposals have been advanced for a shared education campus on the site of the old Lisanelly military barracks.
'Frustrated'
Last summer, Loreto was included in eight schools rejected for new building plans for non-compliance with policy.
Lawyers for the department argued in court that no final decision had been taken on the proposed construction.
But Justice McCloskey concluded that the conduct, delay and inactivity of the minister and department officials frustrated the legitimate expectation of the governors that a new Loreto Grammar School, financed by public funding, would be built on the existing site by 2010 at the latest.
"An unjustifiable breach of trust has occurred," the judge said.
He further found that no proper consideration was given to the governors' expectations when the relevant ministerial decisions were made.
The judge said: "I consider that the careful, thoughtful and conscientious consideration which was required of the minister and departmental officials concerned was manifestly absent and has not been demonstrated."
He also indicated his intention to quash a decision that Loreto's proposed building project was non-compliant with the Sustainable Schools Policy criteria.
Outside the court Grainne O'Hanlon, principal of Loreto Grammar, said the school's trustees and board of governors were relieved that the case was over.
"This has been carried out in an exhaustive, comprehensive and fair manner to their satisfaction," she added.
A Department of Education spokesperson said: "The minister is aware of the judgement delivered on this matter. She will be studying it closely with her officials."
A further hearing to decide costs and how to finalise the terms of his ruling will take place next month.
I wonder what this Justice boyo's politics are.
Anti Sinn Fein I would guess
Quote from: Gaffer on March 25, 2011, 07:00:55 PM
I wonder what this Justice boyo's politics are.
Anti Sinn Fein I would guess
That will be one angle that the Shinner fanboys on here will go with. Even the stanchest Shinner would have to admit she has been a total disaster. Why do ministers not get sacked here?
Quote from: Gaffer on March 25, 2011, 07:00:55 PM
I wonder what this Justice boyo's politics are.
Anti Sinn Fein I would guess
Yes because he ruled in the favour of Loreto College he must be anti-SF. Good man.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 25, 2011, 07:14:20 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on March 25, 2011, 07:00:55 PM
I wonder what this Justice boyo's politics are.
Anti Sinn Fein I would guess
Yes because he ruled in the favour of Loreto College he must be anti-SF. Good man.
Anything that annoys Sinn Fein is enough for some people. Good Man yerself!
Do you think she was changing policy in return for sexual favours too?
The dwindling subvention blues. The brits don't love you anymore.
Judging by much of the content here from Nordies, the state education process does need some serious revision.
;D
QuoteAnti Sinn Fein I would guess
Presumably if Ruane ruled against Loreto then she is anti- Catholic?
Quote
The case centred on £14.6m of investment the school believed it was promised in 2004 through a public private partnership (PPP) for a new build.
It was announced by the then direct-rule minister Barry Gardiner as part of a major expansion plan for schools across Northern Ireland.
Since then, however, proposals have been advanced for a shared education campus on the site of the old Lisanelly military barracks.
Can't please some people.
So the building of a new catholic grammar was stopped to fund a mixed school?
I think that would be a good thing.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on March 25, 2011, 07:52:44 PM
So the building of a new catholic grammar was stopped to fund a mixed school?
I think that would be a good thing.
Not exactly a mixed school. Separate schools on the same site, sharing certain amenities, such has a top of the range Gym or Science Lab.
Bit of a hard one to figure out here. Well on on the anti-side of the argument she is a Shinner but on the other she is a Mayo woman. Both make good cases. ;D
Hmmm... let's see now.
1. A new school built through PPP with millions of £s being paid to a private developer over and above the original investment for 15 or 20 years
or
2. A new school build on some free land vacated by the Brits incorporating top class facilities which can be shared with other schools.
The judge thinks it's "not fair" that we don't build the gammar the fancy new school on the site they want! f**king p***k, who's money does he think he is spending here? If Loreto think it's "not fair" then let them ask the parents to stump up £15m plus the developers annual fee.
Who'd be a headmaster in Omagh with all of this going on?
Teachers get it wild handy anyway
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/605000/images/_605174_ruane150.jpg)
Most of our ministers that have overseen the various fuckups would be down the road by now if they were in a normal government.
What is normal government?. Dail, Westminster, Stormont,White House.Italy ? All the same cheats. Anarchy rules OK. :o
Quote from: Ulick on March 25, 2011, 08:23:44 PM
Hmmm... let's see now.
1. A new school built through PPP with millions of £s being paid to a private developer over and above the original investment for 15 or 20 yearsor
2. A new school build on some free land vacated by the Brits incorporating top class facilities which can be shared with other schools.
The judge thinks it's "not fair" that we don't build the gammar the fancy new school on the site they want! f**king p***k, who's money does he think he is spending here? If Loreto think it's "not fair" then let them ask the parents to stump up £15m plus the developers annual fee.
The new campus is also to be PFI.
If the minister had done her job properly instead of trying to blindly implement her party policy then there wouldnt have been a court case.
Ruane is the one single reason i will not be voting SF at the next election,she is single handily destroying our education system
Surely she's a massive liability to SF at this stage? The only reason she hasn't been pulled from the job is that it would be a clear admission of failure. But if SF get the same number of ministries next time, i'd expect O'Dowd to get the nod and for Ruane to be dropped.
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 26, 2011, 08:49:22 AM
The new campus is also to be PFI.
Maybe so, but the plan to locate a number of schools on the same site with shared resources will still save £millions.
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 26, 2011, 08:49:22 AM
If the minister had done her job properly instead of trying to blindly implement her party policy then there wouldnt have been a court case.
Yer oul hole. She overturned a bad decision by a direct rule minister. That's what she was put there to do. I note the judge waited until the day after the Assembly was dissolved before announcing his decision, conveniently delaying any appeal.
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 10:23:33 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 26, 2011, 08:49:22 AM
The new campus is also to be PFI.
Maybe so, but the plan to locate a number of schools on the same site with shared resources will still save £millions.
But you were just giving out about the
"millions of £s being paid to a private developer over and above the original investment for 15 or 20 years". Is that no longer a problem now that you realise that Ruane plans to use the same procurement route?
Maguire, I guessing you know no more that I about the differences in the detail between the two deals so we'll not go down that route. However it's a no-brainer that if you have to use PPP then it's better to minimise costs by developing a scheme like this which shares resources. Or do you support this school getting top of the range facilities which the other schools will be denied?
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 10:38:40 AM
Maguire, I guessing you know no more that I about the differences in the detail between the two deals so we'll not go down that route. However it's a no-brainer that if you have to use PPP then it's better to minimise costs by developing a scheme like this which shares resources. Or do you support this school getting top of the range facilities which the other schools will be denied?
I don't have the details for both schemes, so I can't comment on that. I don't know if all of the other schools
need to be rebuilt as well, or how much this one school will cost as opposed to its proportion of costs on the new site. The Lisnelly plans are for £100m; the Loreto plans are for £15m.
In theory, all the schools together is a nice idea. Although actual amalgamation of the schools would be better still. But that's another argument.
My point was that one of your two objections was the use of PPP... until you realised that Ruane's proposal was also using PPP.
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 10:23:33 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 26, 2011, 08:49:22 AM
The new campus is also to be PFI.
Maybe so, but the plan to locate a number of schools on the same site with shared resources will still save £millions.
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 26, 2011, 08:49:22 AM
If the minister had done her job properly instead of trying to blindly implement her party policy then there wouldnt have been a court case.
Yer oul hole. She overturned a bad decision by a direct rule minister. That's what she was put there to do. I note the judge waited until the day after the Assembly was dissolved before announcing his decision, conveniently delaying any appeal.
Why was it a bad decision? The convent building is falling down round them and they put forward proposals for a new one and recieved approval. This was before the joint campus had recieved any sort of approval. Should they have just sat and waited in the hope that the new campus was going ahead?
Have you seen the buisness model to know that the new campus will save millions?
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2011, 10:56:03 AM
My point was that one of your two objections was the use of PPP... until you realised that Ruane's proposal was also using PPP.
No I still object to the use of PPP but if it's going to be used I'd like to see us get the most out of it.
So Ulick, do you expect Ruane to be dropped when SF is handing out the departments post May election?
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2011, 02:07:43 PM
So Ulick, do you expect Ruane to be dropped when SF is handing out the departments post May election?
She is the worst minister of the last parliament and that's saying something with Poots, McCausland, McGimpsey etc on the hill.
Quote from: Ulick on March 25, 2011, 08:23:44 PM
Hmmm... let's see now.
1. A new school built through PPP with millions of £s being paid to a private developer over and above the original investment for 15 or 20 years
or
2. A new school build on some free land vacated by the Brits incorporating top class facilities which can be shared with other schools.
The judge thinks it's "not fair" that we don't build the gammar the fancy new school on the site they want! f**king p***k, who's money does he think he is spending here? If Loreto think it's "not fair" then let them ask the parents to stump up £15m plus the developers annual fee.
this post sums it up for me
Quote from: lawnseed on March 26, 2011, 02:25:21 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 25, 2011, 08:23:44 PM
Hmmm... let's see now.
1. A new school built through PPP with millions of £s being paid to a private developer over and above the original investment for 15 or 20 years
or
2. A new school build on some free land vacated by the Brits incorporating top class facilities which
can be shared with other schools.
The judge thinks it's "not fair" that we don't build the gammar the fancy new school on the site they want! f**king p***k, who's money does he think he is spending here? If Loreto think it's "not fair" then let them ask the parents to stump up £15m plus the developers annual fee.
this post sums it up for me
Surprising.
Quote from: lawnseed on March 26, 2011, 02:25:21 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 25, 2011, 08:23:44 PM
Hmmm... let's see now.
1. A new school built through PPP with millions of £s being paid to a private developer over and above the original investment for 15 or 20 years
or
2. A new school build on some free land vacated by the Brits incorporating top class facilities which can be shared with other schools.
The judge thinks it's "not fair" that we don't build the gammar the fancy new school on the site they want! f**king p***k, who's money does he think he is spending here? If Loreto think it's "not fair" then let them ask the parents to stump up £15m plus the developers annual fee.
this post sums it up for me
Even though #1 makes no sense?
Of course it makes sense you're just being pedantic. And no, I wouldn't expect her to be replaced.
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
Of course it makes sense you're just being pedantic. And no, I wouldn't expect her to be replaced.
I asked you a question earlier, why do you think it was a bad decision to initially award a new building project for the convent when there had been no mention of a shared campus when they made their application or when they got the go ahead?
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
Of course it makes sense you're just being pedantic. And no, I wouldn't expect her to be replaced.
Why? Because you believe she is doing a good job or because in local politics annoying themmuns is equally as important as achieving anything of note ref. Nelson McCausland.
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
Of course it makes sense you're just being pedantic.
It makes no sense because both options are PPP. We've already had this one.
Oak the answer to your question is so obvious I don't like to point it out, but maybe you've missed all the redundancies, the cutbacks, the schools with no funding and 40k empty desks? The English minister promised something we can't afford, that's why it was a bad decision.
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 10:36:17 PM
Oak the answer to your question is so obvious I don't like to point it out, but maybe you've missed all the redundancies, the cutbacks, the schools with no funding and 40k empty desks? The English minister promised something we can't afford, that's why it was a bad decision.
We can't afford £15m? Yet we can afford £100m for the other project? Clearly it is agreed that this school needs to be replaced.
Quote from: isourboydownyet on March 26, 2011, 09:39:58 AM
Ruane is the one single reason i will not be voting SF at the next election,she is single handily destroying our education system
She is a complete total disaster.
Obsessed with replacing the 11+ with a system proven to be worse.
People searching for an educational utopia are wasting their time; it is fairer to stagger it by academic selection at around 11 than by any other measure.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 26, 2011, 11:45:38 PM
A bad decision would be to go ahead with building a campus that very few local people actually want without stopping to re-organise the schools in West Tyrone. In Strabane, there is a brand new school opened by the current Minister 18 months ago with around 350 empty seats, in Castlederg, a maintained secondary school with less than 150 children and in Dromore a maintained secondary school with less than 150 children. In Omagh, there is a controlled secondary school with around 400 children being offered a new building on the campus despite not meeting DE policy on sustainability. In Carrickmore, the maintained secondary school is getting a new build in the village for under 500 children despite issues with sustainability and the proposed campus being built 14 miles down the road. In the period since DE first proposed to have the new campus, the Minister agreed to and built a new integrated school in Omagh at the opposite end of the town to the proposed campus, it opened last September.
We need some joined up thinking in West Tyrone and some political bravery to take decisions on where and when to build schools and to re-organise the provision to meet 21st century requirements. We don't need a plan to place 6 schools one site when they may not be needed. We don't need another Balmoral High School, new buildings with no students.
Opportunities must not be lost to build a system of schools in West Tyrone which will meet the needs of one of the most deprived rural areas of N.Ireland. There is no local or regional industry in West Tyrone. Private sector employment depended on construction and agriculture and both are gone. The main employers are the schools, the education library board, in the DARD building, in the DSD building, in the DRD building and the local council. The hospital was moved from the Tyrone by the last health minister from the centre of the county to the least populated part of N.Ireland with no roads for people to get to it and also took away a major employer. Just when a road into West Tyrone is proposed and financed, it is opposed by some locals when it might bring some industry. The chief export of West Tyrone is its young people and they need the best schools possible to prepare them for their futures, schools fit for the 21st century and not just a plan to build the same schools on an army camp to prove a political point that the army has gone.
If a campus is needed, there is a site where the government owns the land, its not at Lisanelly. Lisanelly Army camp is a typical fort build on a steep hill and is a steeply sloping site and protected by a river which will cost millions to make useful for large school buildings. The planned sports area at Lisanelly is in the Strule river flood plain which is useless every time there is heavy rain and the river rises. There is no infrastructure in the Lisanelly area to move 5000 children, teachers and support staff in and out of the area of the Gortin road every day. Anyone who has attended a major game at Healy Park can testify how difficult it can be to get in and out of that part of Omagh for a single event on a Sunday when the traffic in town is quite light. Then there is the cost of decontamination of Lisanelly where the army and their families remained for over 30 years without being able to come out except for patrols. No one knows what has been dumped on the site during that time. The Fort George site in Derry has only 14 acres and is costing in excess of an estimated £3 million to decontaminate after being handed over to DSD, the entire Lisanelly site is 10 times that size! Do we really have that money to spend on decontamination of the site from a limited capital budget?
Beside the newly built integrated secondary school there is a similar sized site which is not in a flood plain and is virtually flat. It belongs to DSD and is the site of the old mental hospital and it would be perfect for a campus. Therefore, it would be free and available as the old hospital is empty and it would bring the newly built integrated school into the "integrated" campus. It has not even been considered by DE even though it approved part of its use for the new integrated school while planning for Lisanelly campus at the other end of town. Part of the Lisanelly site could be used for the local hospital and health centre closer to the centre of the town and the 3 housing estates already on the Lisanelly site could be used for much needed social housing.
It is also beginning to dawn on the shops in the Omagh town centre that moving 4000 children away from it to Lisanelly would devastate the commerce because of the money they leave in town 3 times per day and when the £15,000 per day they leave in town centre could be lost to some PPP contractor who would cater for the children on the proposed campus. Omagh town centre is struggling to exist at present and this would close small cafes, small shops and even the local large Supervalu which caters for many of the older children. The out of centre retail park has already closed quite a few retailers in the town centre.
A little more thought on so many fronts is needed before a minimum of £110 million is spent from a very limited DE capital budget which cannot meet the needs of so schools across N.Ireland, e.g. take a look on the other side of the board to an interview by JQ with a young lad on the lack of facilities provided by DE to his school in North Belfast which many would think were basic. http://www.jeromequinnmedia.com/watch/GAA-Star-of-the-Month---Aidan-McNeill-411 (http://www.jeromequinnmedia.com/watch/GAA-Star-of-the-Month---Aidan-McNeill-411)
Some valuable insight as usual, sir.
Quote from: Ulick on March 26, 2011, 10:36:17 PM
Oak the answer to your question is so obvious I don't like to point it out, but maybe you've missed all the redundancies, the cutbacks, the schools with no funding and 40k empty desks? The English minister promised something we can't afford, that's why it was a bad decision.
Ulick,
TYP has outlined the complete mess that has been made in the area under Ruane. Other schools in the area have recieved funding and have completed buildings despite not meeting the criteria that the convent did meet. The only reason that it cant be afforded is due to the ineptitude of Ruane. She had sat on her hands and awarded money to other projects and held back based on a pipe dream of the shared campus that none of the schools in the town want.
[[/quote]She is the worst minister of the last parliament and that's saying something with Poots, McCausland, McGimpsey etc on the hill.
[/quote]
nail on head there mate
QuoteThat will be one angle that the Shinner fanboys on here will go with. Even the stanchest Shinner would have to admit she has been a total disaster.
Hmmm...could it be Trout is a Ulster-Scots speaker? ;)
Stanchest would be with McCooey accent.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 26, 2011, 11:45:38 PM
A bad decision would be to go ahead with building a campus that very few local people actually want without stopping to re-organise the schools in West Tyrone. In Strabane, there is a brand new school opened by the current Minister 18 months ago with around 350 empty seats, in Castlederg, a maintained secondary school with less than 150 children and in Dromore a maintained secondary school with less than 150 children. In Omagh, there is a controlled secondary school with around 400 children being offered a new building on the campus despite not meeting DE policy on sustainability. In Carrickmore, the maintained secondary school is getting a new build in the village for under 500 children despite issues with sustainability and the proposed campus being built 14 miles down the road. In the period since DE first proposed to have the new campus, the Minister agreed to and built a new integrated school in Omagh at the opposite end of the town to the proposed campus, it opened last September.
We need some joined up thinking in West Tyrone and some political bravery to take decisions on where and when to build schools and to re-organise the provision to meet 21st century requirements. We don't need a plan to place 6 schools one site when they may not be needed. We don't need another Balmoral High School, new buildings with no students.
Opportunities must not be lost to build a system of schools in West Tyrone which will meet the needs of one of the most deprived rural areas of N.Ireland. There is no local or regional industry in West Tyrone. Private sector employment depended on construction and agriculture and both are gone. The main employers are the schools, the education library board, in the DARD building, in the DSD building, in the DRD building and the local council. The hospital was moved from the Tyrone by the last health minister from the centre of the county to the least populated part of N.Ireland with no roads for people to get to it and also took away a major employer. Just when a road into West Tyrone is proposed and financed, it is opposed by some locals when it might bring some industry. The chief export of West Tyrone is its young people and they need the best schools possible to prepare them for their futures, schools fit for the 21st century and not just a plan to build the same schools on an army camp to prove a political point that the army has gone.
If a campus is needed, there is a site where the government owns the land, its not at Lisanelly. Lisanelly Army camp is a typical fort build on a steep hill and is a steeply sloping site and protected by a river which will cost millions to make useful for large school buildings. The planned sports area at Lisanelly is in the Strule river flood plain which is useless every time there is heavy rain and the river rises. There is no infrastructure in the Lisanelly area to move 5000 children, teachers and support staff in and out of the area of the Gortin road every day. Anyone who has attended a major game at Healy Park can testify how difficult it can be to get in and out of that part of Omagh for a single event on a Sunday when the traffic in town is quite light. Then there is the cost of decontamination of Lisanelly where the army and their families remained for over 30 years without being able to come out except for patrols. No one knows what has been dumped on the site during that time. The Fort George site in Derry has only 14 acres and is costing in excess of an estimated £3 million to decontaminate after being handed over to DSD, the entire Lisanelly site is 10 times that size! Do we really have that money to spend on decontamination of the site from a limited capital budget?
Beside the newly built integrated secondary school there is a similar sized site which is not in a flood plain and is virtually flat. It belongs to DSD and is the site of the old mental hospital and it would be perfect for a campus. Therefore, it would be free and available as the old hospital is empty and it would bring the newly built integrated school into the "integrated" campus. It has not even been considered by DE even though it approved part of its use for the new integrated school while planning for Lisanelly campus at the other end of town. Part of the Lisanelly site could be used for the local hospital and health centre closer to the centre of the town and the 3 housing estates already on the Lisanelly site could be used for much needed social housing.
It is also beginning to dawn on the shops in the Omagh town centre that moving 4000 children away from it to Lisanelly would devastate the commerce because of the money they leave in town 3 times per day and when the £15,000 per day they leave in town centre could be lost to some PPP contractor who would cater for the children on the proposed campus. Omagh town centre is struggling to exist at present and this would close small cafes, small shops and even the local large Supervalu which caters for many of the older children. The out of centre retail park has already closed quite a few retailers in the town centre.
A little more thought on so many fronts is needed before a minimum of £110 million is spent from a very limited DE capital budget which cannot meet the needs of so schools across N.Ireland, e.g. take a look on the other side of the board to an interview by JQ with a young lad on the lack of facilities provided by DE to his school in North Belfast which many would think were basic. http://www.jeromequinnmedia.com/watch/GAA-Star-of-the-Month---Aidan-McNeill-411 (http://www.jeromequinnmedia.com/watch/GAA-Star-of-the-Month---Aidan-McNeill-411)
Excellent analysis. You're obviously a student who, ahem, does his homework.
Can someone tell me what DARD, DSD and DE are - and also - what kind of de-contamination are you talking about here? I'd never heard of such a thing in my paltry 30 years, very interesting. Taking the schools out of the town would decimate the place in all fairness. Those food places would really struggle - but Mickey McElroy would be happy there'd be no more skateboarding down mainstreet.
Dept of Agriculture & Rural Development, Department for Social Development & Department of Education.
Cheers sir.
Quote from: Minder on March 31, 2011, 10:57:24 PM
Dept of Agriculture & Rural Development, Department for Social Development & Department of Education.
You'll get a nice pat on the head at work tomorrow.