QuoteThe Irish Times - Wednesday, February 16, 2011
No need for annual panic over attendances
SEÁN MORAN
ON GAELIC GAMES: We should just appreciate the different strengths of Gaelic games rather than fret over inapposite comparisons with rival sports
IF YOU were the GAA's psychiatrist – apart from being wealthy from constant demand – you'd have identified the peaks of existential angst that take place around this time of the year as well as in June every four years. It's at these times that the association appears to feel most uncomfortably the heat of competition from other sports. The World Cup crisis of confidence generally outstrips the impact that live coverage of such spectacles as Iran-South Korea actually has on early championship attendances but, regular as clockwork, the quadrennial panic still erupts.
February concerns are a response to poor attendances when league matches go up the odd time against rugby internationals but at the weekend attendances fell only by an aggregate of around 5,000 on last year's opening schedule if you except Tipperary-Kilkenny, which was twice postponed 12 months ago.
It has to be remembered last Sunday's pairings weren't terribly attractive with away fans having to travel long distances rather than watch Ireland-France on free-to-air television. In the past decade rugby has become a competitive presence in the early spring. For instance last year's televised sports ratings featured four rugby internationals in the top 10 broadcasts whereas 10 years ago, the game struggled to get one entry.
Yet three of the top four broadcasts were GAA fixtures – and the hurling final the second most watched programme in Ireland in 2010 (behind The Late Late Toy Show) – underlining the undimmed attraction of the national games. More importantly those matches are played every year regardless of what happens elsewhere whereas mass audiences for the rival sports depend largely on the fortune of Irish teams in international competition. That's the upside; balancing that however is the simple reality that there's little the GAA can do to compete with the attraction of international sport.
Is there a country in the world as riveted by what other people think of them? Even before the opinions of others became quite so important to our future, there was an insatiable appetite for affirming views from abroad. Few international successes go by without the judgments of overseas observers being ventilated in the national media.
Consequently it's hardly a surprise that when local teams compete and do well at an elite international level, which has been rugby's experience in the past five years, there's a willing audience to cheer them on.
Less commented on is the fact the GAA's own structures, schedules and fixture calendars are as much an obstacle as competing events. Football and hurling are amateur games with deep traditions, which ensure intense levels of interest. Their nature also ensures they can't compete over seasons of comparable length to rival field sports.
Creating spectacle and making money from the season are primary concerns for professional sports whereas the GAA has to factor in any number of other considerations. Gaelic games won't move to a subscription-based television rights deal but supporters can view rugby's European Cup and soccer's English Premiership – the two biggest areas of interest for Irish viewers outside of internationals – only on satellite channels.
Therefore the games are streamlined to suit that presentation. Rugby switches seamlessly between its club fixtures and terrestrially accessible international windows, shifting the focus but always maintaining interest for six to eight months – depending on how the provinces do.
Key to this is player eligibility. You play for a province and if good enough you also play for a country and when you do, provincial fixtures go ahead without you. There is some friction between provinces and the national squad but that's the extent of the problem – two teams administered to inconvenience each other as little as possible.
This month, as the leagues struggle with vile weather and rugby internationals, there are players all over the place with significant competitions taking place in profusion: football league, hurling league, club championships, Sigerson Cup and Fitzgibbon Cup – all very important to the elite players taking part. It's the equivalent of a younger Brian O'Driscoll taking time out from Leinster and Ireland to play for Blackrock in the AIL and UCD in a colours match. And that's just senior. The time he was scoring three tries in Paris 11 years ago he'd have also been eligible for under-21 competitions.
Multi-eligibility restricts the availability of top players and makes a coherent, marketing strategy very difficult outside of the summer months and even then a format still heavily orientated towards knock-out is unpredictable and difficult to promote.
Without front-line players matches can lack authenticity even if the committed follower is always interested to see how the wider playing panel is shaping up. Dublin attempt to negotiate these challenges with the first of the Spring Series this weekend. The hope is the latent demand for sporting occasions can be awakened by a bit of floodlit hoopla. It's a spirited attempt but not without its risks.
Croke Park's previous big spring crowds (bar the replayed 1993 league final) have been once-off promotions against Ulster opposition. The full houses against Tyrone in 2007 and '09 were also specifically celebratory occasions (turning on the stadium floodlights and launching the 125th anniversary).
Cork and Tipp are All-Ireland champions but the former don't draw what you could categorise as die-hard support. Croke Park is too big to make advance ticket purchase essential so Dublin will be largely relying on a walk-up crowd but the team has done its best to set the scene and a decent crowd is likely for the first match in the series.
Disappointment with the crowd in floodlit Semple Stadium illuminated another emerging pattern – night-time matches are more popular in football than in hurling. Whenever hurling matches have to move outside of the traditional Sunday afternoon slot, there's a lack of enthusiasm. Fewer than 10,000 were in Thurles on Saturday and accepting it was desperate weather, that's still more than 50 per cent down on 2010's postponed fixture, which eventually took place on a Sunday afternoon.
Even the All-Ireland under-21 final last September, played as a triumphant coda to the week that saw Tipperary take home the Liam MacCarthy attracted a smaller-than-expected 21,000. Although the Cork hurlers pioneered floodlit league matches eight years ago, the initiative died off initially because opponents were unwilling to participate.
Noel McGrath, one of Tipperary's already garlanded younger generation, said at a press conference this week when talking about Saturday night lights in Croke Park: "You can't beat playing on a sunny afternoon in championship or league action."
Things would be great if the GAA season could be more neatly packaged for box-office appeal but, as things stand, that's just not possible. We should just appreciate the different strengths of Gaelic games rather than fret over inapposite comparisons. smoran@irishtimes.com
Hear hear. I get sick listening to obituaries being written for hurling year in year out when the game is as strong as ever. And it's a great point about looking for validation from outside and worrying about what other countries are thinking of us. Whether it's looking for a pat on the head for "our magnificent stadium" or glorying in the slightest glimpse of international limelight for a pitiful handful of Olympic medals, this inferiority complex is not just confined to the GAA and it's something we need to lose.
Is he not somewhat dodging the question though. Just because people watched the AIH final in huge numbers last year does not make last weeks league attendences any less awful. Its fair to question why so few paid through the gate and ask if its worth worrying about.
100% agree with the obsession some Gaels have with benchmarking against soccer and rugby though.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2011, 01:17:50 AM
Hear hear. I get sick listening to obituaries being written for hurling year in year out when the game is as strong as ever. And it's a great point about looking for validation from outside and worrying about what other countries are thinking of us. Whether it's looking for a pat on the head for "our magnificent stadium" or glorying in the slightest glimpse of international limelight for a pitiful handful of Olympic medals, this inferiority complex is not just confined to the GAA and it's something we need to lose.
100% agree. The sight of reporters asking rugby fans what they thought of Croke Park was pathetic. Perhaps other countries feel this need to be told how brilliant they are, but I doubt it.
Correct, its not as if no-one expected attendances to fall.
Still surprised Eugene McGee or Martin Breheny haven't done their annual shock horror "look at the attendances" copy and paste articles yet.
Good article indeed. And the constant national craving for approval and praise bugs the hell out of me too.
Quote from: thejuice on February 16, 2011, 01:46:22 PM
Correct, its not as if no-one expected attendances to fall.
Still surprised Eugene McGee or Martin Breheny haven't done their annual shock horror "look at the attendances" copy and paste articles yet.
It's easier to generate column inches by being a purveyor of doom although I think it's a more cynical exercise on Brehenys behalf.
I've never seen any pictures of Eugene McGee as a young child but I imagine he's probably scowling at the camera in all of them.
Quote from: dublinfella on February 16, 2011, 11:13:38 AM
100% agree with the obsession some Gaels have with benchmarking against soccer and rugby though.
Are you afraid people might start comparing GAA attendances to LOI Soccer ones? ::) ;D ;D
Quote from: dublinfella on February 16, 2011, 11:13:38 AM
100% agree with the obsession some Gaels have with benchmarking against soccer and rugby though.
Totally agree.. You don't have to look much further than this board to see this is practice..
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2011, 06:19:47 PM
Are you afraid people might start comparing GAA attendances to LOI Soccer ones? ::) ;D ;D
How would they stack up? Would be interesting to see. I strongly doubt that the reigning LoI champions have ever gotten 600 at their opening home league game...
According to foot.ie the average PD crowd is around 2,000 and first 1,200. Would the Allianz League achieve those averages?
Quote from: dublinfella on February 17, 2011, 11:18:34 AM
According to foot.ie the average PD crowd is around 2,000 and first 1,200. Would the Allianz League achieve those averages?
You don't have to drill very far into any of the multitude of threads (http://foot.ie/threads/34422-Rules-Links-Info) about attendances at foot.ie to see people ridiculing the figures that are posted. To call them unreliable would be charitable
Quote from: deiseach on February 17, 2011, 12:24:12 PM
You don't have to drill very far into any of the multitude of threads (http://foot.ie/threads/34422-Rules-Links-Info) about attendances at foot.ie to see people ridiculing the figures that are posted. To call them unreliable would be charitable
As may be, but it is at least a resouce. Where can I look up the GAA equivalents?
Quote from: dublinfella on February 17, 2011, 01:35:51 PM
As may be, but it is at least a resouce. Where can I look up the GAA equivalents?
Right. So the sum of human knowledge would be added to if we had an equally unreliable source for GAA attendances. GIGO (http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/definition/gigo).
Quote from: deiseach on February 17, 2011, 02:52:08 PM
Right. So the sum of human knowledge would be added to if we had an equally unreliable source for GAA attendances. GIGO (http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/definition/gigo).
Sigh.
Is there anywhere I can find League attendences? Would be interesting to see are they increasing / declining or what
What would that tell us? There was approx 10K at the Tipp/Kilkenny game, between 6 and 8K at the Mayo/Down game, not sure about the others but approximate figures are available I'm sure. The league is the primary competition for domestic soccer and the secondary competition for the GAA, yet few, if any, LOI game will get crowds in excess of 6K as many of the National league games will. So, in conclusion, the GAA is a more popular spectator sport than LOI soccer, nothing new there and this fact is no reflection on either game. Maybe you can tell me where you're trying to go with this?
He's going to the same place he always goes.
Quote from: Zulu on February 17, 2011, 03:38:08 PM
What would that tell us? There was approx 10K at the Tipp/Kilkenny game, between 6 and 8K at the Mayo/Down game, not sure about the others but approximate figures are available I'm sure. The league is the primary competition for domestic soccer and the secondary competition for the GAA, yet few, if any, LOI game will get crowds in excess of 6K as many of the National league games will. So, in conclusion, the GAA is a more popular spectator sport than LOI soccer, nothing new there and this fact is no reflection on either game. Maybe you can tell me where you're trying to go with this?
Rossfan mentioned comparing NL and LoI attendences. For every 10,000 at a Tipp v KK game there is 100 at a Leitrim v Carlow.
I'm not disputing that the GAA is more popular than the LoI overall, but I would have a suspicion that more punters pay into LoI games than the NL taken as a whole over two sports.
Quote from: dublinfella on February 17, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
[Rossfan mentioned comparing NL and LoI attendences. I'm not disputing that the GAA is more popular than the LoI overall, but I would have a suspicion that more punters pay into LoI games than the NL taken as a whole over two sports.
I mentioned comparing
GAA attendances and LOI ;) Only one winner there.
I think the 2 National Leagues would attract more people in total than the 2 LOI Divisions ( or whatever they will have this year?).
There are about 250 games in the 2 Nat Leagues compared to about 375 LOI games so despite some spectatorless lower NHL games the average per game at the GAA NLs would be at least 1.5 times the Soccer league.
A friend who goes to Whocares Park reckons De Town had about 5,000 of a total attendance at all their League game last year .
Quote from: dublinfella on February 17, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 17, 2011, 03:38:08 PM
What would that tell us? There was approx 10K at the Tipp/Kilkenny game, between 6 and 8K at the Mayo/Down game, not sure about the others but approximate figures are available I'm sure. The league is the primary competition for domestic soccer and the secondary competition for the GAA, yet few, if any, LOI game will get crowds in excess of 6K as many of the National league games will. So, in conclusion, the GAA is a more popular spectator sport than LOI soccer, nothing new there and this fact is no reflection on either game. Maybe you can tell me where you're trying to go with this?
Rossfan mentioned comparing NL and LoI attendences. For every 10,000 at a Tipp v KK game there is 100 at a Leitrim v Carlow.
I'm not disputing that the GAA is more popular than the LoI overall, but I would have a suspicion that more punters pay into LoI games than the NL taken as a whole over two sports.
If you compare like with like, i.e. the top two divisions in hurling and football V the top two divisions in LOI then I would safely say that the National league would win hands down. What that proves is debatable but it is a fact.
Quote from: Zulu on February 17, 2011, 07:37:08 PM
If you compare like with like, i.e. the top two divisions in hurling and football V the top two divisions in LOI then I would safely say that the National league would win hands down. What that proves is debatable but it is a fact.
Weill if you take two tournaments and compare it to one, of course the two will win... ???
I wouldn't actually be so sure. Dublin would get more than a Dublin LoI club in football, but wouldn't in hurling.
Would the average of the hurling and football crowds in the league in Sligo, Donegal, Derry, Wicklow, Westmeath, Longford and Louth beat the LoI clubs there?
I suppose what it proves is that irish people don't do week in week out sport in the numbers they should.
QuoteWeill if you take two tournaments and compare it to one, of course the two will win...
Eh? Jesus man, the figure would have to be an average for a fair comparison, so it doesn't matter if you are taking both football and hurling together. By including division 2 of the hurling I'm reducing the average GAA attendance.
QuoteI wouldn't actually be so sure. Dublin would get more than a Dublin LoI club in football, but wouldn't in hurling.
Dublin football would get way more the hurlers would probably be comaprable. Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, and Kildare footballers, Kilkenny, Waterford, Cork and Tipp hurlers would also all far exceed any LOI clubs attendances. A good number of other counties in the top two divisions would probably exceed them as well, especially if they were going pretty well.
QuoteWould the average of the hurling and football crowds in the league in Sligo, Donegal, Derry, Wicklow, Westmeath, Longford and Louth beat the LoI clubs there?
If any of those counties were in the top two divisions I would say yes, with the exception of Derry (maybe).
QuoteI suppose what it proves is that irish people don't do week in week out sport in the numbers they should.
If the GAA talked up the league and the best players were always available with teams genuinely trying to win games I'd say league crowds for division 1 and 2 in the football would average 20K or thereabouts.
No chance Sligo or Derry imo LOI is very strong, the rest possible or maybe probable.
Still no panic ?
Down and Armagh supporters not traveling in big numbers for Saturday night's game - clubs sending loads of tickets back for the game on Saturday night -
And who do GAA officials say is to blame ? The Kings of Leon ! :D ;D :D
You just couldn't make it up.
Quote from: orangeman on May 25, 2011, 09:48:17 AM
Down and Armagh supporters not traveling in big numbers for Saturday night's game - clubs sending loads of tickets back for the game on Saturday night -
And who do GAA officials say is to blame ? The Kings of Leon ! :D ;D :D
You just couldn't make it up.
Looks like Down fans going to out number Armagh on the first championship game in the Morgan Arena ;)
According to today's IN only 2500 or so tickets sold by Armagh clubs.
Attendances apparently are up in Ulster this year or is this cos attendances were much reduced last year ?