Just a topic to throw out there, but from what I have heard from people in London, the sights are been firmly set on a Connacht Final appearance this year. With games against Roscommon and Leitrim standing in their way, the feeling coming from London is that they have the ability now to overturn those two teams.
It has little to do with anything great that the London CB or management have been doing themsleves, but more to do with the huge influx of experienced inter-county players declaring for London. At present on the team they have:
Johnny Niblock - Derry
Conor Beirne - Roscommon
Derek Hayden - Carlow
Paul Geraghty - Galway
Kevin McMenamin - Donegal
Eamonn McGee - Donegal
Darren Horan - Limerick
Declan Lally - Dublin
Brian Smyth - Westmeath
- all available to them and no doubt more to come in. There could be a massive shock on the cards and given that it is over 35 years since they won a game, it is a story worth watching. They might not be all top class players, but they are far better than what London have been wheeling out over the years. In the 20-odd years I was involved, I have never seen a squad containing more talent or experience.
I appreciate it isn't always about the players available and it is more about the player's committment to the project and the preparation etc but London have a decent package at the moment with former Mayo trainer Martin McGrath training them
Roscommon at this stage are scoring well in games but are unable to win any, and I am sure they would rather not be coming to Ruislip this year.
Any thoughts?
Absolutely the way things are at the moment in Ros, London will fancy their chances in Ruislip alright :-[ In saying if Ros can get all their players back and play them in the correct positions and start playing with confidence then I would expect us to come through this one
Quote from: heineken_on_tap on March 19, 2010, 01:03:33 PM
Absolutely the way things are at the moment in Ros, London will fancy their chances in Ruislip alright :-[ In saying if Ros can get all their players back and play them in the correct positions and start playing with confidence then I would expect us to come through this one
In 2005 you arrived with no confidence and ina total mess and nearly got found out, you ended up winning by a point I think in the end.
It was actually a surprisingly good London side that year in terms fo past and future county experience and the team that year had.
Paul O'Dowd - Cavan
Paddy McConigley - Donegal
Damian McKenna - Monaghan
Johnny Niblock - Dery
Paul Hehir - Clare
Senan Hehir - Clare
Shane McAnarney - Meath
Scott Doran - Wexford
Jamie Coffey - Cavan
Roscommon will certainly need to be focused for it to stop the shock.
Lally has not officially transferred. people jumping the gun there.
Also the logistical nightmare that is London when it comes to training makes it very difficult to see an upset regardless of players availability.
Quote from: INDIANA on March 19, 2010, 02:55:59 PM
Lally has not officially transferred. people jumping the gun there.
Also the logistical nightmare that is London when it comes to training makes it very difficult to see an upset regardless of players availability.
Oh I'm certainly not predicting anything great myself, but I will acknowledge the potential.
I was involved for long enough with the county team there to know the difficulties and also to know that players aren't at all like Ronseal wood stain when they get to London, in that they don't always do exactly what they say on the tin.
However, from a London point of view, it is positive for the short-term, but still only papers over the cracks in terms of the deficiencies that exit within the county structures. However, it will also put a little more fear in the visiting Roscommon team knowing that they will be facing a London team that should be considerably stronger than most of the previous ones they have faced in the Championship. I played against them in 2000 and we were beat by 20-points and I also played in 1995 and were beat by 9-points. The single point defeat last time out was more to do with Roscommon's dire state than London's excellence, despite the personnel that London had.
But with the draw presenting Roscommon and Leitrim, it is easy to see why London are maybe a little more optimistic than usual.
The fact has been proven though over the past 15 years of boom in Ireland that the London football structure is not capable of preparing personnel, be they London born or Irish, for the demands of inter-county football and that goes for both players and management. The leagues and Championships are not of sufficient calibre to prepare players for the rigours of top class football.
Is the London championship team likely to be much different from the one that isn't doing too well in Division 4? Even with the good draw, they'd need to improve on how they've been playing in the league.
It's interesting though that the lopsided way that the draw in Connacht has worked out this year means that one of the worst teams in the country will make the last 12 of the championship. My money would still be on Roscommon of the three though, although I'd fear for them in the Connacht Final and round 4 of the qualifiers if they can't improve on their recent performances.
Kosmo, i'd get rid of the U21 connacht champions avatar. its gone the way of the dodo
I know! I might leave it up until the Ros/Sligo game is played - or until I think of something else interesting to put there...
London could have beaten Down at the Marshes in the open draw first round last July, so they will be worth watching if they have improved still further. There was only a point in it going into the final quarter, and London were totally on top. Then Benny got a goal against the run of play, London lost momentum and the game drifted away from them. Down won by nine in the end, but the scoreline did not reflect London's overall performance at all. They were well organised and had some decent players. While Down were poor on the night, London will know exactly what they need to do this summer.
It is always impossible to predict the London team. I played on a Championship team in June and by the start of the league the following October there were only two of us left from the Championship 15 and the same applies in reverse, I have seen as many as eight or nine changes from the team that played in the final game of the league and the one that started in the Championship six weeks later.
There are a lot of decent players in London at the moment, decent but not exceptional, and there are a few exceptional players like Eamonn McGee. However, molding them into a team with a well-drilled game plan is another thing and the management, although it has been in place for six years, has never been in a position to be tested as far as their ability to win games from behind goes or to hold on to a narrow victory. They have won seven or eight games in the past five or six years, three of those against Kilkenny, another against a dysfunctional Sligo team ( and the current manager was on sabbatical for that game), one against a woeful Carlow side and another against Waterford, so it is not only the ability of the players that would be scrutinized in the Championship, as the management, for all their commitment and hard work, are untried in terms of winning close matches. Not a criticism of the management, just a valid observation.
If inter-county football is as complex and difficult as managers like us to believe it is, then London shouldn't be in a position to win in May against Roscommon, as this team is being cobbled together on a week by week basis depending on who turns up in London with the biggest reputation. There will be quite a few very bitter squad players in London when the team to play Roscommon is picked, based purely on the fact that they will be over-looked in favour of the bigger names.
However, that said, London will be there or thereabouts in that game, so maybe inter-county football isn't that difficult after all.
As for the team that played in the Marshes last June, this year's team will bear no relation to it at all.
I know another fella who would add a bit to the squad. Sean McVeigh from Antrim has been in and out of the squad for a few years is studying in London. He has signed for Parnells but says he might not even bother playing club. If Dunning could get a hold of him he would be a great asset. Won player of the tournament in the plate at British Uni Championships (I know it was the plate but he won it by an absolute country mile)
Quote from: the colonel on March 19, 2010, 09:17:10 PM
I know another fella who would add a bit to the squad. Sean McVeigh from Antrim has been in and out of the squad for a few years is studying in London. He has signed for Parnells but says he might not even bother playing club. If Dunning could get a hold of him he would be a great asset. Won player of the tournament in the plate at British Uni Championships (I know it was the plate but he won it by an absolute country mile)
The trouble is that with less than 10 weeks to the Championship, there has to come a time when you stop bringing new lads in and start to focus on who you have. If you don't what's the point with London being in the Nat League in the first place? Time and time again London managers have continued to take players in late in the day, Dunning and all those before him, and it doesn't work. You need to pick a squad early and stick with it and make the most of it. I could almost guarantee that there will be players playing in the Championship for London who never kicked a ball in the Nat League. I have yet to see a London Championship team where that wasn't the case.
Word was James Reilly, all star nominee goalie from Cavan and Gerard Pierson also from Cavan were over in UK too. Are they not involved with London too?
Quote from: irunthev on March 19, 2010, 12:52:11 PM
, but more to do with the huge influx of experienced inter-county players declaring for London. At present on the team they have:
Conor Beirne - Roscommon
Bit of an oxymoron there me boy.
3 or 4 games for Ros in 2005 until he "left" the panel.
He's been there since last August, should have been approached by now. Studying at UEL
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
Word was James Reilly, all star nominee goalie from Cavan and Gerard Pierson also from Cavan were over in UK too. Are they not involved with London too?
havent heard any word on reilly,but i believe pierson is back,or coming back soon.yup,he is back,according to the celt he scored 5 points for gowna at the weekend.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
Word was James Reilly, all star nominee goalie from Cavan and Gerard Pierson also from Cavan were over in UK too. Are they not involved with London too?
Gerard had been approached and as far as I know had been training with Tir Chonaill Gaels but as has been pointed out, he is back playing at home now.
I don't know about James Reilly. There was talk of him going to England but he didn't seem to indicate that football was any kind of priority. I truth though, the goalkeeping position isn't a priority for London as Tipperary man Evan Byrne is a top class keeper and has been around for a few years in the squad, as back-up to Brian McBrearty, and also spent a year in NY where he played for them in last year's Connacht Championship. Evan has really earned the right to be London keeper and deserves it, replacing him with someone, even as good as Reilly, would send out a terrible message to the rest of the players.
I believe that Lorcan Mulvey was also in London but I see he is turning out for Cavan at the moment, so I don't know if he is still in London or not. I know London had their eye on him over the winter.
One of the challenges that the management team have is that last year they spent a lot of money on players that weren't included in the Championship panel. At times there were 40 odd players involved. The difficulty with this is firstly, the management need to know at some stage what the panel is and you need to put a value on being included on the panel. If you maintain the revolving-door policy and grabbing every player that comes along and dispensing with the ones you have, then you are never going to achieve anything.
And secondly the whole process becomes extremely expensive and London had serious financial difficulties before the credit crunch, heaven only knows what the finances are like now. In fact at the start of this season, neither the hurlers or the footballers had a sponsor and the hurlers won Div 3 last year and got to Croke Park, so at least they had something to sell to a sponsor, but still failed to get one.. Money is as big an issue in London as it is in Ireland.
One of the reason why Noel Dunning wasn't re-appointed manager last year by the CB was because, in the words of one CB officer he had "no respect for money". The clubs pushed for him to get back as part of a "management team" and he is commonly known as the manager, but in fact the CB stripped him of that title partly because he wasn't really managing anything, he was just facilitated a free-for all and inviting every player in the place on board and costing the CB a fortune, while still not making any real progress with the football team. He works very hard for the team, but he is very inexperienced, and in my view, even though he is now five years managing a losing team, it can only be described as bad experience as you only get a chance to develop when you get things right and have your philosophies proven to be worthwhile.
You could of course argue that he hasn't had decent players before, but at the same time, if an entire team is going to land on his lap this year and they do have success, you could argue that he had little or nothing to do with it and you could give the credit to the banksters, the TDs and the developers!
There has to be a certain honour involved in playing for a county, whatever county it is, but if you step off a plane and are out on the county team the following week, where's the honour? I know plenty of players down through the years who have played for London before they ever played for their club side in London and there would be a few of the current team in that position as club football has started in London this year yet. I also know others who never played for their club side at all, but still played for London. You've hardly bought into the London concept is that's the case.
I watched what can only be described as a shambles yesterday at the London V Leitrim game.
I know a few of the lads who play for London, so I am aware of the current issues of what is going on, but yesterday was the first time I saw it happen.
The biggest issue of the lot is the farce that the county board allowed/facilitated 3 mangers to run a team. Yesterday within the first 20 mins, they had issued different messages to players who looked at them as if to say WTF.
A few other things were a disgrace in allowing players to dictate to the managers of where they want to play, not removing players who were totally out of their depth, but moving them about to keep them on the team; standing along the sideline at halftime in a huddle, smiling for the papers ...
There are more items that could be said, but I will not say, but if this team want to cause an upset, then it is surely time to get this sorted now. There is talent there, but, form experience, there is only room for 1 man to call the shots on the line. If there are more than 1, at the very least sing of the same sheet.
Quote from: AidyMac on March 22, 2010, 09:37:53 AM
I watched what can only be described as a shambles yesterday at the London V Leitrim game.
I know a few of the lads who play for London, so I am aware of the current issues of what is going on, but yesterday was the first time I saw it happen.
The biggest issue of the lot is the farce that the county board allowed/facilitated 3 mangers to run a team. Yesterday within the first 20 mins, they had issued different messages to players who looked at them as if to say WTF.
A few other things were a disgrace in allowing players to dictate to the managers of where they want to play, not removing players who were totally out of their depth, but moving them about to keep them on the team; standing along the sideline at halftime in a huddle, smiling for the papers ...
There are more items that could be said, but I will not say, but if this team want to cause an upset, then it is surely time to get this sorted now. There is talent there, but, form experience, there is only room for 1 man to call the shots on the line. If there are more than 1, at the very least sing of the same sheet.
I'll have to say that was a shocker of a result yesterday. My fear is that some of the players are better qualified and more experienced than those managing the team. Once players spot a weakness in the manager, then the manager is doomed or in London's case, the three managers are doomed.
Only London could step back to 1920 and install a selection panel instead of an out and out manager, all that they are missing now is the parish priest to have the final say on team selection and the bishop to throw the ball in at the start of each game.
And only the London clubs could install a management committee made up of people that the CB had categorically stated they didn't want and quite obviously couldn't work with. Sadly, now in their 17th season in the league, they have failed to learn one single thing about being a serious inter-county team
It is pretty shocking how yesterdays game turned out, but surely they can turn this about
They have the skill and talent, but due to the issue on the sideline, some of the players do not seem interested
One of the big questions would be - can you build a team capable of winning a game in the Championship in ten weeks? And if you can, why then do teams start training in November and why do teams spend fortunes on trainers, managers and facilities if it is possible to do it so easily?
I see London gave Carlow a good run for their money yesterday. I'd say Carlow and Roscommon would be about on a par at this point in time, so maybe London are starting to get their act together just in time after a bad run earlier in the campaign.
we beat Louth, lost to Offaly & fermanagh by one point, Antrim by two & wexford beat us with a last minute goal
all those team's would beat london with plenty spare why can't the rossies at least beat london?
Depends what London turn up on the day really, at this stage Ros would take them no bother alright, it's just a case of whether they can get their act together for the championship.
They've gone close against better teams before, they'll surely see the draw this year as an opportunity. But yes, they will definately have to improve further if they're to win.
There are a few issues starting to raise their heads in London and all will not be plain sailing for them over the next few weeks.
Against Leitrim London played a player from Westmeath called Brian Smyth who is studying in London. They assumed that his transfer has been passed but it hadn't and the player's home club had blocked it. Now the player, as well as the London CB Chairman and Secretary, have all been banned for 48 weeks. I have no idea why this hasn't been a bigger story, but they are appealing the ban this week in the CCC.
It would also appear that Eamon McGee is very unlikely to play for London in the Championship, although there is still a slight possibility as no paper work has been submitted yet but the general vibe doesn't seem too good with regards to his future with London. He didn't play against Roscommon either.
I agree with Rossie though. I, as much as anyone, would love to see London win against Roscommon, but having watched the Roscommon year with great interest, they are no where near as poor as their position would suggest. They have had a few very close calls against very good teams and against both Antrim and Offaly it was the sluggishness of their start that caused the problems for them. London would never score more than 1-6 or 1-7 against a Louth, Antrim or Offaly, not any London team I was involved with and not this current one either. Add to that the boost of the Under-21 crown and you will have a decent Roscommon team pulling into Ruislip. As much as London may have their eyes set on the potential of a Connacht Final, so too do Roscommon.
The Carlow game has to be taken into context and very few teams who play in Ruislip on a Saturday put up any sort of a show. They've generally been traveling all day before the game and have half an eye on a night out after the game. That's what happened to Waterford last year and they ended up losing to London and probably costing themselves promotion. London's midfield on Saturday was made up of their two lads who have been sharing the role of full back all year. Hardly what you would expect at this time of the year.
London will give Ros a decent game in the Championship, they will even give them a scare, but the fact is that London do not know how to win close games, they have zero experience of it, so therefore I would expect Roscommon to squeeze home.
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 05, 2010, 06:24:32 PM
Depends what London turn up on the day really, at this stage Ros would take them no bother alright, it's just a case of whether they can get their act together for the championship.
They've gone close against better teams before, they'll surely see the draw this year as an opportunity. But yes, they will definately have to improve further if they're to win.
London haven't a hope in hell of beating Roscommon. They haven't been able to get the best players over there to play for them. If they got them out they'd have a chance. But London is a nightmare for trying to get people together in the same spot for training because its so big.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 05, 2010, 06:24:32 PM
Depends what London turn up on the day really, at this stage Ros would take them no bother alright, it's just a case of whether they can get their act together for the championship.
They've gone close against better teams before, they'll surely see the draw this year as an opportunity. But yes, they will definately have to improve further if they're to win.
London haven't a hope in hell of beating Roscommon. They haven't been able to get the best players over there to play for them. If they got them out they'd have a chance. But London is a nightmare for trying to get people together in the same spot for training because its so big.
You have a point but there is much more to it than that. The biggest single question about London is "What does this team mean to the players that are on it?". The answer is all too often "very little" and too many players, especially these days, are using London as some sort of a meal ticket now that things are bad at home. The thing is, London have very little to offer any player coming into town. Some clubs in London do, but the London CB do not. Therefore, the allegiance of many of these players is not with the county team but with the club that is looking after them. For many years I lived more than 40 miles away from where we trained and I never missed a session or was even late for one. Sligo's Brendan Egan played for them while he studied in Loughborough in the midlands and barely missed a session,while others like Garry Fearon, Eamon Brennan and Daniel Davey have had journeys of well in excess of 200 hundred miles round trips and they were as dedicated as anyone to the cause. That's because the team meant something to these guys. For far too many guys living in London, the London county team means nada and unless you can get the person behind the player to really buy into the project, then the player is of no value to you. They will pay it lip service but that's all.
more chance of Fermanagh winning Ulster or Wicklow winning Leinster, dream on
Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 10:54:44 AM
more chance of Fermanagh winning Ulster or Wicklow winning Leinster, dream on
So should they give up? A very incisive comment sammy ::) - i can't understand the mentality of someone who reads this thread and thinks, i know what i'll write - and adds the comment you just made! Very interesting!
Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 10:54:44 AM
more chance of Fermanagh winning Ulster or Wicklow winning Leinster, dream on
No one is suggesting that London can win Connacht, however with the line up of Roscommon and then Leitrim blocking their path to a Connacht Final, then they are entitled to dream. That's not being disrespectful to either of those counties, as it is far from a foregone conclusion that London could beat either of them, but given that in most years London would face either Galway or Mayo in either the first round or semi-final, then in 2010 at least, they are entitled to have a little dream / ambition - regardless of how improbable it may seem to most.
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 06, 2010, 11:12:55 AM
Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 10:54:44 AM
more chance of Fermanagh winning Ulster or Wicklow winning Leinster, dream on
So should they give up? A very incisive comment sammy ::) - i can't understand the mentality of someone who reads this thread and thinks, i know what i'll write - and adds the comment you just made! Very interesting!
I love dreaming myself and I am used to it being from Fermanagh, but sometimes I get hit by the hard reality of life and today is one of those days
Quote from: irunthev on April 06, 2010, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 10:54:44 AM
more chance of Fermanagh winning Ulster or Wicklow winning Leinster, dream on
No one is suggesting that London can win Connacht, however with the line up of Roscommon and then Leitrim blocking their path to a Connacht Final, then they are entitled to dream. That's not being disrespectful to either of those counties, as it is far from a foregone conclusion that London could beat either of them, but given that in most years London would face either Galway or Mayo in either the first round or semi-final, then in 2010 at least, they are entitled to have a little dream / ambition - regardless of how improbable it may seem to most.
Fianna Fail's economic destruction of Ireland should be good for London football. Every cloud has a silver lining.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
Word was James Reilly, all star nominee goalie from Cavan and Gerard Pierson also from Cavan were over in UK too. Are they not involved with London too?
Lads
I really wish you would stop using the term UK - its an explicit reminder to the 6 counties being part of the empire. Why not say Britain or preferably England. Sorry to pick on you Mtl but I see it far too often on this site & it is a term that does not sit well with many of us nationalists on here. Or am I the only one to think this?
When I see GAA men make reference to the UK in a GAA context it always reminds me of the
DUP sports minister's stance on the " international competition" aspect of the Sam Maguire!
Quote from: qz on April 06, 2010, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
Word was James Reilly, all star nominee goalie from Cavan and Gerard Pierson also from Cavan were over in UK too. Are they not involved with London too?
Lads
I really wish you would stop using the term UK - its an explicit reminder to the 6 counties being part of the empire. Why not say Britain or preferably England. Sorry to pick on you Mtl but I see it far too often on this site & it is a term that does not sit well with many of us nationalists on here. Or am I the only one to think this?
When I see GAA men make reference to the UK in a GAA context it always reminds me of the
DUP sports minister's stance on the " international competition" aspect of the Sam Maguire!
Ah ffs, go and lie down! ::)
Quote from: qz on April 06, 2010, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
Word was James Reilly, all star nominee goalie from Cavan and Gerard Pierson also from Cavan were over in UK too. Are they not involved with London too?
Lads
I really wish you would stop using the term UK - its an explicit reminder to the 6 counties being part of the empire. Why not say Britain or preferably England. Sorry to pick on you Mtl but I see it far too often on this site & it is a term that does not sit well with many of us nationalists on here. Or am I the only one to think this?
When I see GAA men make reference to the UK in a GAA context it always reminds me of the
DUP sports minister's stance on the " international competition" aspect of the Sam Maguire!
I respect your point, but the word "Britain" doesn't sit easily with me and I'm not going to go down the road of saying "across the water". I won several titles while in London that are termed "All Britain" but I prefer to call them Provincials, which in theory at least, if not in value, they are. I guess we will all just have to read posts through squinted eyes and try and block out the offending words.
Quote from: irunthev on April 06, 2010, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: qz on April 06, 2010, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
Word was James Reilly, all star nominee goalie from Cavan and Gerard Pierson also from Cavan were over in UK too. Are they not involved with London too?
Lads
I really wish you would stop using the term UK - its an explicit reminder to the 6 counties being part of the empire. Why not say Britain or preferably England. Sorry to pick on you Mtl but I see it far too often on this site & it is a term that does not sit well with many of us nationalists on here. Or am I the only one to think this?
When I see GAA men make reference to the UK in a GAA context it always reminds me of the
DUP sports minister's stance on the " international competition" aspect of the Sam Maguire!
I respect your point, but the word "Britain" doesn't sit easily with me and I'm not going to go down the road of saying "across the water". I won several titles while in London that are termed "All Britain" but I prefer to call them Provincials, which in theory at least, if not in value, they are. I guess we will all just have to read posts through squinted eyes and try and block out the offending words.
??
Just don't like it, that's all. It's an opinion, and as Clint Eastwood once said, "opinions are like a**eholes, everyone has one."
Your business, of course, but it's a new one on me. What other words do you dislike?
I hate "sibling" and "overly".
Quote from: INDIANA on April 06, 2010, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on April 05, 2010, 06:24:32 PM
Depends what London turn up on the day really, at this stage Ros would take them no bother alright, it's just a case of whether they can get their act together for the championship.
They've gone close against better teams before, they'll surely see the draw this year as an opportunity. But yes, they will definately have to improve further if they're to win.
London haven't a hope in hell of beating Roscommon. They haven't been able to get the best players over there to play for them. If they got them out they'd have a chance. But London is a nightmare for trying to get people together in the same spot for training because its so big.
London 610 sq. miles. and one tube.
Cork 2878 sq. miles. and full of tubes.
No wonder they always strike.