BBC NI:
The train service between Belfast and Dublin has been halted by a collapse in the line at Malahide in north Dublin.
The incident happened on Friday evening on the viaduct across the estuary north of Malahide.
Iarnród Éireann said "quite bad" damage to the line had been caused by subsidence at an embankment.
The damage was spotted by a train driver travelling from Balbriggan to Dublin. His train had passengers on board but he managed to stop.
Arrangements are being made for passengers to be transferred by bus.
Surley to cause some problems for those travelling to this weekends Games in Dublin. Always be's a good crowd taking the train especially in Portadown.
Yep, I was thinking of taking the train down. Not worth the hassle if you have to change onto a bus, although this is pretty close to the city.
They would probably charge you for the bus as well....£32 From Lurgan to Dublin......I can go to Liverpool cheaper if i book it right...(not excluding taxes for the smart asses here)
Well it makes a change from the damage being caused by Lurganites
Good job i'm not from Lurgan then Curvey isn't it?
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 22, 2009, 12:41:04 PM
Good job i'm not from Lurgan then Curvey isn't it?
Aghagallon ::) same thing. Lurgan wanabees, even you cousin claimed he was from Lurgan...Our Marc ;)
I see translink are refunding those who bought special tickets for the games this weekend.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8218432.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8218432.stm)
Good to see tranlink taking quick action to get the line sorted ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 25, 2009, 10:21:45 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8218432.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8218432.stm)
Good to see tranlink taking quick action to get the line sorted ::)
What have Translink got to do with repairing a viaduct in Malahide?
Quote from: gallsman on August 25, 2009, 10:23:02 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 25, 2009, 10:21:45 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8218432.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8218432.stm)
Good to see tranlink taking quick action to get the line sorted ::)
What have Translink got to do with repairing a viaduct in Malahide?
I was thinking that after I posted, doh :D
Who is responsible for fixing the line, either way, 2010 ::) - great news for a lot of people I'd say
in fiarness it wouldnt be the easiest job in the world to repair, was listening top that gimp on newstalk Claire Byrne interviewing some lad from Irish Rail, she told him that if this was France or Germany the track would be repaired much quicker, FFS they didnt even know what was wrong at the time!!!
It's a disaster for North County Dublin, traffic wise - there was a tail-back from Whitehall to Balbriggan on Monday morning.
There was talk in the NDP of building a second line across that estuary which would allow for the extension of the DART to Donabate (and eventually to Lusk, Skerries, Balbriggan and Drogheda). It would show some value-for-money planning if they were to install that now, which means it won't happen.
Reports on BBC say that repairs won't be finished until next year. Not good news.
Not much of an outcry from the public on this one which is difficult to fathom. It's something that shouldn't happen in this day and age. The bridge was constructed in 1844, thats older than the Forth Rail Bridge in Scotland.
For a bridge that ancient the ground around the bridge should have had ground movement monitoring equipment installed so they could predict ground movements. These are installed in a lot of old and dilapidated and 'at risk' buildings around the world.
Lucky there wasn't a fatal accident.
With their crumbling health service and railway infrastructure, the 26 would need to buck up their ideas if they expect to be accepted back by the wee 6! ;D
This will also cause problems for those who go shopping to Dublin over the Christmas holiday period and for the shops waiting on their money. Thank God there were no deaths, fair play to the driver.
My concept of structural engineering is on a par with my knowledge of hurling.
But seeing as they can build a bridge between Sweden and Denmark these days, then surely dropping a wedge of concrete a few metres into the Irish Sea can't require a huge amount of planning, or a huge amount of execution time?
Quote from: thewobbler on August 25, 2009, 01:24:54 PM
My concept of structural engineering is on a par with my knowledge of hurling.
But seeing as they can build a bridge between Sweden and Denmark these days, then surely dropping a wedge of concrete a few metres into the Irish Sea can't require a huge amount of planning, or a huge amount of execution time?
I'd have been of the same impression. Drive sheet piles into the sea/river bed and do a section at a time. I could be entirely wrong about the time needed all the same.
was thinking why don't they just build a temp line around the estuary until the bridge is fixed - can't take that long to clear ground and lay temp rails?
Yer being a wee bit simplistic there lads!!
Its not that easy to build in the middle of the bay woring with/against the tides, the actual gear for doing the work is more than likely not in this country, they would have to design a pontoon to carry the piling rigs/cranes etc. The design alone could take weeks. I dont know when they would have done ground investigation of the area but again if these have to be done then this takes time.
And i think ye are underestimating big time the planning restrictions there would be to do anything out of the ordinary, the whole estuary would be designated a nature preserve im sure so there wouldn't be a hope of going off the existing track without a huge public outcry
Quote from: ludermor on August 25, 2009, 03:06:38 PM
Yer being a wee bit simplistic there lads!!
Its not that easy to build in the middle of the bay woring with/against the tides, the actual gear for doing the work is more than likely not in this country, they would have to design a pontoon to carry the piling rigs/cranes etc. The design alone could take weeks. I dont know when they would have done ground investigation of the area but again if these have to be done then this takes time.
And i think ye are underestimating big time the planning restrictions there would be to do anything out of the ordinary, the whole estuary would be designated a nature preserve im sure so there wouldn't be a hope of going off the existing track without a huge public outcry
To hell with the public outcry. They need a rail line and soon.
I know what you're saying about the design and construction issues but I thought that they'd be working night and day to get this done.
I think I heard that the estuary is some sort of protected environment. If this is the case it could be much longer than the 3-6 months figures being talked about. The planning process in Ireland for this sort of essential infrastructure is farcical. The presence of some rare snail held up the construction of the M7 bypass of Kildare town and Monasterevin for nearly a decade. This was at a time when they were two of the worst bottlenecks in Ireland on the main artery out of Dublin to Cork and Limerick.
There has been talk of the construction of a temporary bailey bridge for Malahide but knowing the way things work in Ireland, such a structure would end up a permanent fixture. It is ironic that fifty years ago there would be an alternative rail route to the north via the old Navan line. IÉ are very fortunate that something like this didn't happen on the Thomastown or Monasterevin viaducts as there could have been huge fatalities. Given that it is only six years since the Cahir viaduct failed, serious questions have to be asked about the safety and the maintenance of IÉ's infrastructure. Heads should roll for this but I wouldn't hold my breath.
How long did it take the Brits and Americans to build bridges across the Rhine in 1944?
A team of 100 lads, with King Canute on board as a tide adviser, could have it done in a long weekend FFS.
One of the sections of the upper deck of the Oakland Bay bridge in San Francisco collapsed onto the lower deck on 17 October 1989 after an earthquake. It was repaired and reopened by 18 November!!
This is Ireland though. Once the H&Ss, the NIMBYs and the planners get involved it'll take ages before any work even starts.
Replacing an existing structure shouldn't require planning, irrespective of its surroundings. The delays will probably be confined to tender rules. I still think they should go the whole hog and get the double-track in now, it would require planning, but could probably qualify as strategic infrastructure.
QuoteHeads should roll for this but I wouldn't hold my breath.
All being right, the Minister for Transport should be going to jail, and sharing his cell with the CEO of Iarnród Éireann.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 25, 2009, 03:31:56 PM
One of the sections of the upper deck of the Oakland Bay bridge in San Francisco collapsed onto the lower deck on 17 October 1989 after an earthquake. It was repaired and reopened by 18 November!!
This is Ireland though. Once the H&Ss, the NIMBYs and the planners get involved it'll take ages before any work even starts.
Time ,Money and Resources .Something the Yanks have a lot more of than us.
Maybe so Gnevin, but millions are being ploughed into the Western Rail Corridor which will barely be used so it can't be said that capital investment isn't available to Iarnród Éireann. With so many construction workers currently signing on it is not as if the manpower isn't in the country either.
If the government gave IÉ a kick up the arse this thing could be properly repaired within weeks. However, this will never happen here and when it is eventually rebuilt I'd say it will only be a half-assed Paddy-Irishman job.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 25, 2009, 06:31:21 PM
Maybe so Gnevin, but millions are being ploughed into the Western Rail Corridor which will barely be used so it can't be said that capital investment isn't available to Iarnród Éireann. With so many construction workers currently signing on it is not as if the manpower isn't in the country either.
If the government gave IÉ a kick up the arse this thing could be properly repaired within weeks. However, this will never happen here and when it is eventually rebuilt I'd say it will only be a half-assed Paddy-Irishman job.
I haven't ever one from ÍE claim its a capital issue so what is the reliance of the WRC I don't know.
The US has the army corps of engineers we don't and remeber while you point to San Fran I can point too New Orleans
You stated that money could an issue. I pointed out that millions are being ploughed into a white elephant in the west that will barely be used - parish pump politics at its best. The line through Malahide is one of the most strategically important on this island and IÉ should be working night and day to restore a full service but nothing will be done for months. There will be traffic chaos when the schools go back next week.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 25, 2009, 06:46:56 PM
You stated that money could an issue. I pointed out that millions are being ploughed into a white elephant in the west that will barely be used - parish pump politics at its best. The line through Malahide is one of the most strategically important on this island and IÉ should be working night and day to restore a full service but nothing will be done for months. There will be traffic chaos when the schools go back next week.
I said the US has near unlimited money for these things . We don't and pulling the plug of the WRC won't get this built any faster you may as well claim we pull the plug on some road project on Kerry.
I'm not advocating pulling the plug on the WRC. I'm merely pointing out that money can be made available for projects when there is the political will behind it. Dempsey and IÉ should be ensuring that the viaduct is repaired ASAP and to the highest safety standards. You know as well as I do that that this will not happen anytime soon though.
ASAP. If anyone ever said they needed something "ASAP" it went to the bottom of my in tray. Specify a deadline then I'll discuss practicalities, otherwise don't be bothering me.
When will you have the bridge done so Déiseach?? ;D
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 25, 2009, 03:31:56 PM
One of the sections of the upper deck of the Oakland Bay bridge in San Francisco collapsed onto the lower deck on 17 October 1989 after an earthquake. It was repaired and reopened by 18 November!!
This is Ireland though. Once the H&Ss, the NIMBYs and the planners get involved it'll take ages before any work even starts.
And that was 20 years ago. If it happened now, they'd have it finished in a week.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 25, 2009, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 25, 2009, 03:31:56 PM
One of the sections of the upper deck of the Oakland Bay bridge in San Francisco collapsed onto the lower deck on 17 October 1989 after an earthquake. It was repaired and reopened by 18 November!!
This is Ireland though. Once the H&Ss, the NIMBYs and the planners get involved it'll take ages before any work even starts.
Time ,Money and Resources .Something the Yanks have a lot more of than us.
Money and Resources maybe, but I'm fairly sure they only have 24 hours in each day same as us!
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 25, 2009, 07:08:54 PM
I'm not advocating pulling the plug on the WRC. I'm merely pointing out that money can be made available for projects when there is the political will behind it. Dempsey and IÉ should be ensuring that the viaduct is repaired ASAP and to the highest safety standards. You know as well as I do that that this will not happen anytime soon though.
Youi mean after 30 years of campaigning?
It was in one of the papers today that this bridge passed an inspection a couple of days before the collapse! That engineer will be having some sleepless nights this week!
Quote from: J70 on August 26, 2009, 02:18:19 AM
It was in one of the papers today that this bridge passed an inspection a couple of days before the collapse! That engineer will be having some sleepless nights this week!
Irish Rail mentioned this alright. It seemed like too much of a coincidence that it was examined so soon before, and lo and behold what Irish Rail didnt mention was the some Sea Scout Leader in Malahide had warned them on Monday that the bridge was dangerous due to erosion damage - which prompted the inspection. Of course the "engineer" knew more!
http://constructionconciliation.blogspot.com/
Quoteof answering health and safety questions, quality control procedures, method statements and other such trivial red tape considerations from public sector clients. One such client is Irish Rail.
:o
Is their any change they could build 2 bridges one for us who may have a concern or two about quality control and an other made of duct tape so they can take their life's in the their hand every time the cross it?
Quote from: J70 on August 26, 2009, 02:18:19 AM
It was in one of the papers today that this bridge passed an inspection a couple of days before the collapse! That engineer will be having some sleepless nights this week!
[/b]
You bet he will. He must never have got out of his car.
Quote from: Hound on August 26, 2009, 07:22:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 26, 2009, 02:18:19 AM
It was in one of the papers today that this bridge passed an inspection a couple of days before the collapse! That engineer will be having some sleepless nights this week!
Irish Rail mentioned this alright. It seemed like too much of a coincidence that it was examined so soon before, and lo and behold what Irish Rail didnt mention was the some Sea Scout Leader in Malahide had warned them on Monday that the bridge was dangerous due to erosion damage - which prompted the inspection. Of course the "engineer" knew more!
Hadnt heard about that!!
Quote from: the contractor on August 26, 2009, 09:14:39 AM
http://constructionconciliation.blogspot.com/
Well posted, the main thrust of the blog is that Irish rail, who don't have the in house capability to carry out these works will make contractors jump through hoops just to get a chance to tender, then when the tender is accepted the hoop jumping starts all over again,quality plans, HSplan,logistics plan ,temp works plan, method statements, risk assessments etc etc, no one from irish rail will be available after 4pm on a friday till 10:30 on a Monday morning, 12:30pm - 2:30pm mid week and not a hope after 4:30pm mid week.
I actually worked for a contractor on the reconstruction of East wall rail bridge over the Tolka back in 2002 and i can safely say that IR make EVERY county council look mega proactive and that is saying something
I'm sure everyone is glad to hear it's all under control!!!
Wednesday August 26 2009
A special group has been set up to help minimise the disruption caused by the collapse of the rail viaduct in the Malahide area of north Dublin last week.
The group includes officials from Fingal County Council, Dublin City Council, Iarnrod Eireann, Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus, the National Roads Authority and the Gardai.
The viaduct collapse has affected rail commuters heading into north Dublin, as well as passengers on the main line to Belfast.
Bus transfers have already been put in place on the line and Dublin Bus has put on extra services in north Dublin to cope with increased demand for its services.
The rail line is expected to take at least three months to repair.
Quote from: ludermor on August 26, 2009, 01:33:59 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 26, 2009, 07:22:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 26, 2009, 02:18:19 AM
It was in one of the papers today that this bridge passed an inspection a couple of days before the collapse! That engineer will be having some sleepless nights this week!
Irish Rail mentioned this alright. It seemed like too much of a coincidence that it was examined so soon before, and lo and behold what Irish Rail didnt mention was the some Sea Scout Leader in Malahide had warned them on Monday that the bridge was dangerous due to erosion damage - which prompted the inspection. Of course the "engineer" knew more!
Hadnt heard about that!!
From Newstalk's website:
"A group of sea scouts in Dublin says they warned Irish Rail about damage to their viaduct at the Broadmeadow Estuary, days before it collapsed last Friday.
"A leader of the group based in Malahide contacted the company the previous Monday to alert them to possible erosion damage prompting an inspection by Irish Rail the next day."
And now this afternoon, Irish rail have said this (from rte.ie):
"Iarnród Éireann confirmed that concern was expressed by a member of the public on Monday 17 August about erosion on the viaduct.
"Mr Kenny said an engineer carried out an inspection the following day on the basis of that concern, and found the markings were
cosmetic rather than structural."
Quote from: Declan on August 26, 2009, 02:12:57 PM
I'm sure everyone is glad to hear it's all under control!!!
Wednesday August 26 2009
A special group has been set up to help minimise the disruption caused by the collapse of the rail viaduct in the Malahide area of north Dublin last week.
The group includes officials from Fingal County Council, Dublin City Council, Iarnrod Eireann, Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus, the National Roads Authority and the Gardai.
The viaduct collapse has affected rail commuters heading into north Dublin, as well as passengers on the main line to Belfast.
Bus transfers have already been put in place on the line and Dublin Bus has put on extra services in north Dublin to cope with increased demand for its services.
The rail line is expected to take at least three months to repair.
Shit - this is going to take even longer now ! ;)
Was talking to a few people who took translink special web offer for the train to Dublin and they reported that bus transfers seem to be doing OK on the Dublin bound trains.
Although on the return journey they said things were a bit confusing and had to wait two hours in Drogheda until the train arrived.
I suppose these things are to be expected.
For all those who doubted ( me included ) - here is an example of how things can get done if they need to get done : Must do is a great master.
NEWS: Bridge collapse rail line to re-open in weeksview list
09/09/2009
Rail chiefs are on track to re-open one of Ireland's busiest lines within the coming weeks following the near catastrophic collapse of a bridge into the sea, they said today.
Iarnród Éireann said the closed section of the cross-border Dublin to Belfast line near Malahide, north Co Dublin, will be fully operational again by the end of November.
Thousands of passengers have been forced to make alternative travel arrangements since the viaduct, which carried more than 90 trains a day, fell into Broadmeadow estuary last month.
Barry Kenny, spokesman for Iarnród Éireann, said the structure will be fully rebuilt, strengthened and independently tested within the company's original three-month timeframe.
"We will be complete by the end of November," he said.
"When it opens it will be fit for purpose, it won't be a partial reopening."
Mr Kenny confirmed an internal review into exactly what went wrong will not be completed before service returns to normal, in time for the usually busy Christmas shopping period.
But he stressed that extra measures will be put in place to monitor the railway bridge for some time after the re-opening.
"We will have very intensive monitoring of that structure for a significant length of time after it opens," he said.
As well as Iarnród Éireann's own internal tests, the section of railway is to be independently examined by structural engineers Roughan and O'Donovan and the Railway Safety Commission.
The internal investigation, expected to take six months, includes a modelling of the estuary and its water flows to establish how one the bridge's piers collapsed.
It is suspected seabed erosion, caused by low tides and heavy rains, was to blame.
However, Iarnród Éireann has come under criticism for its failure to have an early warning system and stricter tests in place at the viaduct, which it says is unique in terms of the geographic features around and underneath it.
Heroic train driver Keith Farrelly averted tragedy when he spotted subsidence on the track moments after evening rush hour commuter services carrying hundreds of passengers passed over it on Friday, August 21.
Engineers had examined the structure four days earlier after a member of the public raised concerns about suspected erosion and markings on the piers.
An Oireachtas transport committee travelled to the scene today for an update on the progress of the reconstruction.
Mr Kenny said a full audit of 84 other rail crossings over water around the country was underway, but no problems had been flagged up so far
I'll believe it when I see it.
Anybody any updates on repairs?