Last year in the final, the game was over at half time. Can Waterford beat Kilkenny this time around ?? Will Davy try to rough them up again ?
No but Kilkenny will get a game this time round. Waterford are better balanced this time round in my view.
I doubt it to be honest. Will probably be closer than last year's final alright but it would be hard not to.
I think theyll be trounced again too.. praying Limerick dont beat Tipp as at laest there is some hope Tipp give KK a game in the final.
Just seen the betting for the 2 semi finals -
KK are 1/10 and Tipp are 1/5. Hard to believe that both are SO short.
I suppose the few things that stand in Waterfords favour:
Anything less than a 12 point defeat would be seen as a major improvement on last years debacle;
There isn't as much for Waterford to freeze over this time, they've played in plenty of semi finals before'
We will hardly get the same combination of Kilkenny perfection and Waterford collapse on the same day.
If Fitzgerald can get them to just go out and "Give it a lash, See what happens" we might get something. Am wondering should he throw in a few elements of surprise e.g. give Shanahan junior a start. Perhaps hold back big Dan, KK can play Dan like a Banjo at this stage
Quote from: anglocelt39 on July 27, 2009, 10:01:33 PM
Anything less than a 12 point defeat would be seen as a major improvement on last years debacle;
There isn't as much for Waterford to freeze over this time, they've played in plenty of semi finals before'
We will hardly get the same combination of Kilkenny perfection and Waterford collapse on the same day.
All good points.
It's not exactly a recipe for 'victory' though, is it? ;)
Take out last year's final and Waterford-Kilkenny games in the last 11 years have typically been close matches.
In 2004 Kilkenny gave Galway a 19 point beating in Thurles and a few splinters too.
The next year, Galway came back and beat the Cats.
Davy Fitz was also playing around with Clare in 1993 when they lost to Tipp by 18 points (when Nicky laughed) and in 1994 they came back and beat Tipp.
Waterford should look to turnarounds like these to inspire them.
A training camp in Lourdes is Waterford's only hope
Waterford's scrape over the line against Galway reminded me of Corks against Galway last year. Cork got beat by 8 points in the semi against KK (IIRC) and the Deise will be beaten by something similar, sad but true. Tipp will easily account for Limerick in the other semi (Dublin would have given them a better game IMO) & hopefully Tipp will run the Cats close in the final, get your money on...
They have no hope. Having one or two players on incredible form isn't enough. Mullane can't (unless Kilkenny seriously selfdestruct) win them the game on his own. Same way Ben couldn't win it for Cork on his own last season. It's not going to be enough. And it's probably going to be a 10 plus defeat. If Limerick loose, which as much as I'd love to see them go to the final (and win..ya right) I think Tipp will take the game, and it'd be better competitive wise as well. Then a Tipp v KK final. We're all hoping Tipp give KK a game. But I can really only see one out come.
I wanted Galway to beat Waterford and overall they would have given KK a much bigger challenge but, Waterford's momentum and a bit of luck got them through but I really can't see them giving KK much of a game unless all their players play better then they have in a long time and KK have a really off day. Galway would have challenged them more but like Waterford v Tipp last season or Waterford and Limerick the season before, the better team didn't win, and in the end the better team for the competition, the teams that would have challenged KK more, didn't win and Kilkenny ran free. Hopefully Waterford will give them a game, but unless all their team plays to their best of their ability and/or KK have just one really really bad day, I can't see it happening.
My God I agree with Reillers :o I have to go have a lie down ;)
Quote from: EddieMerx on July 29, 2009, 01:04:09 PM
My God I agree with Reillers :o I have to go have a lie down ;)
It's ok - he just copied and pasted it from a post he read on rebelgaa - you can relax..
Quote from: heffo on July 29, 2009, 01:20:23 PM
Quote from: EddieMerx on July 29, 2009, 01:04:09 PM
My God I agree with Reillers :o I have to go have a lie down ;)
It's ok - he just copied and pasted it from a post he read on rebelgaa - you can relax..
Do you ever pull that ginormous stick out of your ass or are you always such a childish bitter indivudual? Get over yourself, or better yet get a hobby. GAA maybe. You might enjoy it.
Quote from: Reillers on July 29, 2009, 01:23:48 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 29, 2009, 01:20:23 PM
Quote from: EddieMerx on July 29, 2009, 01:04:09 PM
My God I agree with Reillers :o I have to go have a lie down ;)
It's ok - he just copied and pasted it from a post he read on rebelgaa - you can relax..
Do you ever pull that ginormous stick out of your ass or are you always such a childish bitter indivudual? Get over yourself, or better yet get a hobby. GAA maybe. You might enjoy it.
Say that in English will you??
Come on Reillers lad - it's you who's the bitter one - you believed all the lies peddled by the GPA/Product launchers and now that their tissue of lies unfolded before you, you decide to take it out on me..
I can't see Waterford winning in any shape or form - Ken McGrath won't be fit and they've been too reliant on Mullane.
Quote from: heffo on July 29, 2009, 02:45:13 PM
I can't see Waterford winning in any shape or form - Ken McGrath won't be fit and they've been too reliant on Mullane.
I see he has resumed training again and that Davy says that he will probably play some part in the game at some stage.
How could this be given that according to last week's reports, he wasn't even back jogging yet ?.
They have no hope. Having one or two players on incredible form isn't enough. Mullane can't (unless Kilkenny seriously selfdestruct) win them the game on his own. Same way Ben couldn't win it for Cork on his own last season.
Ah yeah Reillers but remember, like, how "Ben" was seriously hamstrung by utterly moronic deficient management last year. Although I suppose you have to balance that against the fact that Mullane can't go as close to the edge as "Ben" could since he wouldn't be one to go whinging to his CB Chairman to get suspensions overturned and the likes. Evens out when you think about it I suppose
Dissapointing result for Waterford U21's last night - Clare seemed much bigger physically and were much stronger in the tackle.
Questionable use of Maurice Shanahan too..
Thought after 20 mins Waterford were going to win easily- they hurled clare off the park early on. Missed a couple of goal chances.I'd say its looking good for kilkenny. Clare are a good side but their size was a huge advantage last night. Think they might struggle on a bigger pitch.
I can't see Clare beating KK, KK are better hurlers and will also be up to the physical battle
Thats two cracking U21 finals in a row. Really enjoyed that last night. Clare look to have a decent future judging by how they have performed over those two years
Thought it was a really good game of hurling, had everything apart from a few sendings off. Is that the Clare goalkeeper from last years final? He was certainly keeping an eye on where the square finished this year :D Full back cost Waterford I thought, something similar will probably happen to their seniors in a couple of weeks...
I'm not too disappointed by the result last night. 2-17 is an excellent score in a sixty minute match on a heavy pitch - we won an All-Ireland scoring only 0-12. Clare scored a great goal late on and once they had the insurance point they'd have done anything to keep it. I'd rather we won obvously, but I wouldn't begrudge Clare after their litany of failures at this stage over the years (not least last year)
Was the Clare fella who scored 12 points against tipp in the seniors playing(I can't remember his name)? Did he stand out?
Where does young shanahan play for the u21s? Is he much use at this level?
Quote from: EddieMerx on July 30, 2009, 11:05:18 AM
I can't see Clare beating KK, KK are better hurlers and will also be up to the physical battle
QuoteI'd say its looking good for kilkenny.
Just to let ye know lads Clare have to play Galway yet before they progress to their inevitable winner takes all showdown with Kilkenny.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 03, 2009, 02:05:08 AM
Just to let ye know lads Clare have to play Galway yet before they progress to their inevitable winner takes all showdown with Kilkenny.
Sure what have ye ever done at Under-21 level? ;)
Bad news for Waterford ?
Noel Hickey is in line to make his long-awaited comeback for Kilkenny in Sunday's All-Ireland SHC semi-final against Waterford at Croke Park.
Hickey had an operation earlier this year to sort out a nagging Gimore's groin problem, and just when he was ready to resume his inter-county career he damaged knee ligaments in training just before the Leinster final.
However, he has played a couple of League games for his club, Dunamaggin in the last month, and is now nearing full fitness.
Last season, Hickey also had to overcome nagging injuries before regaining his place in the Kilkenny side that saw off Cork in the All-Ireland semi-final, before starring in the awesome team effort that claimed the three-in-a-row.
Other news from Noreside is that James 'Cha' Fitzpatrick has also shown great form in training and it is believed that Kilkenny look likely to start next Sunday with a team that will be very close or identical to that which crushed Waterford in last September's decider.
Hickeys return is very bad news for waterford and everyone else. I thought that during the championship the Cats had looked unusually vunerable at the back, Delany does not look like a nutural full back and the halfback line was weakened by his absence. If Hickey can free JJ back to the half back line and Cha and Derek Lyng are both fully fit then perhaps the Cats are ready to approach the heights we saw last year which spells trouble for everyone else. Also I suspect the Cats will remember the rough stuff from last years final and the league match and want to put manners on Waterford once more.
Quote from: slow corner back on August 04, 2009, 04:03:51 PM
Hickeys return is very bad news for waterford and everyone else. I thought that during the championship the Cats had looked unusually vunerable at the back, Delany does not look like a nutural full back and the halfback line was weakened by his absence. If Hickey can free JJ back to the half back line and Cha and Derek Lyng are both fully fit then perhaps the Cats are ready to approach the heights we saw last year which spells trouble for everyone else. Also I suspect the Cats will remember the rough stuff from last years final and the league match and want to put manners on Waterford once more.
Score board is the way they'll want to put manners on them. It won't be like last years final - that much is for sure.
Quote from: slow corner back on August 04, 2009, 04:03:51 PM
Hickeys return is very bad news for waterford and everyone else. I thought that during the championship the Cats had looked unusually vunerable at the back, Delany does not look like a nutural full back and the halfback line was weakened by his absence. If Hickey can free JJ back to the half back line and Cha and Derek Lyng are both fully fit then perhaps the Cats are ready to approach the heights we saw last year which spells trouble for everyone else. Also I suspect the Cats will remember the rough stuff from last years final and the league match and want to put manners on Waterford once more.
Who'll make way for JJ in the half back line?
It'll not be wee Tommy Welsh and John Dalton hasn't put a foot wrong either so Tennyson is the most likely candidate but will JJ go to the centre?
Quote from: johnneycool on August 04, 2009, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: slow corner back on August 04, 2009, 04:03:51 PM
Hickeys return is very bad news for waterford and everyone else. I thought that during the championship the Cats had looked unusually vunerable at the back, Delany does not look like a nutural full back and the halfback line was weakened by his absence. If Hickey can free JJ back to the half back line and Cha and Derek Lyng are both fully fit then perhaps the Cats are ready to approach the heights we saw last year which spells trouble for everyone else. Also I suspect the Cats will remember the rough stuff from last years final and the league match and want to put manners on Waterford once more.
Who'll make way for JJ in the half back line?
It'll not be wee Tommy Welsh and John Dalton hasn't put a foot wrong either so Tennyson is the most likely candidate but will JJ go to the centre?
Can't see JJ going to the centre - expect more Cody shock tactics. When will they name the teams ?
Short Answer= no.
Just watched the 2004 Munster Final to get the buzz going. Some serious points (and misses) from Flynners. If we get a couple of goals on Sunday you never know, no one expects anything so maybe that might help...
COME ON THE DEISE!!!
Quote from: Eastern_Pride on August 04, 2009, 06:09:39 PM
Short Answer= no.
so what will be their half back combination then?
Quote from: johnneycool on August 05, 2009, 08:49:00 AM
Quote from: Eastern_Pride on August 04, 2009, 06:09:39 PM
Short Answer= no.
so what will be their half back combination then?
He means that in answer to the title of the thread, Waterford have no chance of beating KK.
WALSH, TENNYSON, JJ
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
As long as its not your own ;D
Kilkenny do seem to be playing within themselves but are always able to step it up a gear when most needed. They haven't been able to blow teams out of the water llike they did last year.
If they'd drawn Tipp in the semi-final then they might have been caught on the hop as I don't think Waterford have the right peronnel out the field to give Mullane and Eoin Kelly enough ammunition to trouble the Kilkenny fullback line, especially Kavanagh who might lack a bit of pace but seldom gets exposed due to the dirty ball coming in. Tipp have more pace over the park and might have exposed this but if Kilkenny get to the final then they'll not lose it no matter who's on the other side.
Just too many weaknesses in the Waterford team to cause an upset but they'll give a much better account of themselves and maybe run KK to 4 or 5 points.
I don't think Hickey will start. I saw him at training there at the weekend and hes not back to full pelt just yet. He lined out on the second-string in the match (which can be indicative of team selection, though so was Tommy Walsh, so who knows). My feeling is that Brian Hogan will start at 3. JJ was back out on the wing and Canice Hickey started on the first string at 3 (Hogan didn't participate in the game).
Midfield will give Cody a headache too. By all accounts it was looking like Cha/Fennelly, but Derek Lyng is flying at the moment so a Lyng/Cha pairing is likely.
But how do you leave out Micheal Rice? He'll probably be facilitated on the wing. I'd expect the forwards to be;
Larkin, Henry, Rice, Eddie, Gorta, Fogarty
we'll soon know.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 06, 2009, 11:01:56 AM
I don't think Hickey will start. I saw him at training there at the weekend and hes not back to full pelt just yet. He lined out on the second-string in the match (which can be indicative of team selection, though so was Tommy Walsh, so who knows). My feeling is that Brian Hogan will start at 3. JJ was back out on the wing and Canice Hickey started on the first string at 3 (Hogan didn't participate in the game).
Midfield will give Cody a headache too. By all accounts it was looking like Cha/Fennelly, but Derek Lyng is flying at the moment so a Lyng/Cha pairing is likely.
But how do you leave out Micheal Rice? He'll probably be facilitated on the wing. I'd expect the forwards to be;
Larkin, Henry, Rice, Eddie, Gorta, Fogarty
we'll soon know.
Hogan's ready to go again - probably the man for Dan when he comes on. Would he handle Eoin Kelly if Davy tuns with Eoin at 14 ?
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Just to add to this. Tennyson got 8 stitches in a training match last week. Didn't even get a free apparently for the incident. Tennyson expected to have to go to hospital to get stitched. Cody told him to go into the dressing room , get stitched and resume his position on the field.
Tennyson duly did- as he'd well aware if he doesn't somebody else will.
Thats the difference. Kilkenny get nothing on the field of play they don't get in training.
Last Monday's Kerry/Dublin game showed that logic and sport don't always mix, but I can't see Waterford upsetting Kilkenny in this one. The reality is that Waterford have been quite poor this year and there are still problems at full back, midfield is hit and miss and outside of Mullane none of the other forwards are making a big impression on the scoreboard. Kilkenny won't have to be firing on all cylinders to beat Waterford and I expect them to do so by 6-8 points.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 06, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Just to add to this. Tennyson got 8 stitches in a training match last week. Didn't even get a free apparently for the incident. Tennyson expected to have to go to hospital to get stitched. Cody told him to go into the dressing room , get stitched and resume his position on the field.
Tennyson duly did- as he'd well aware if he doesn't somebody else will.
Thats the difference. Kilkenny get nothing on the field of play they don't get in training.
Serious ?? Cody is not much of a ref by all accounts. This confirms it.
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 06, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Just to add to this. Tennyson got 8 stitches in a training match last week. Didn't even get a free apparently for the incident. Tennyson expected to have to go to hospital to get stitched. Cody told him to go into the dressing room , get stitched and resume his position on the field.
Tennyson duly did- as he'd well aware if he doesn't somebody else will.
Thats the difference. Kilkenny get nothing on the field of play they don't get in training.
Serious ?? Cody is not much of a ref by all accounts. This confirms it.
Just because you get a cut doesn't necessarily mean it should be a free. Shit happens
Hopefully Waterford will give me a reason to be over-excited on Sunday (hoping Mayo do the business in the football). On the other hand I could be leaving at half-time...
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2009, 11:50:48 AM
Last Monday's Kerry/Dublin game showed that logic and sport don't always mix, but I can't see Waterford upsetting Kilkenny in this one. The reality is that Waterford have been quite poor this year and there are still problems at full back, midfield is hit and miss and outside of Mullane none of the other forwards are making a big impression on the scoreboard. Kilkenny won't have to be firing on all cylinders to beat Waterford and I expect them to do so by 6-8 points.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that is the way to bet - Damon Runyon
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 06, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Just to add to this. Tennyson got 8 stitches in a training match last week. Didn't even get a free apparently for the incident. Tennyson expected to have to go to hospital to get stitched. Cody told him to go into the dressing room , get stitched and resume his position on the field.
Tennyson duly did- as he'd well aware if he doesn't somebody else will.
Thats the difference. Kilkenny get nothing on the field of play they don't get in training.
Serious ?? Cody is not much of a ref by all accounts. This confirms it.
the matches are tough. But they're clean. And if you get bottled up you release the ball. Its about common sense and getting the most out of your training game. Typically the only time the whistle will blow is when the ball goes out of play. And thats how it should be. The players don't whinge. They learn to expect they're not going to get anything soft and it stands to them.
And as regards intensity or lack thereof. Thats not true. Its intense as ever. Theres some tiredness there perhaps but theres no lack of effort or intensity among the players. What I was more worried about was that none of the forwards really set the world alight. Actually, Riche Power did, but faded after a bit. I'll revise that forward selection I put there earlier. Theres no way Power won't start. Hes playing too well. Rice will be the one from those I picked most likely to make way.
And, as regards tiredness - Kilkenny have Hickey, Cha, Hogan, Tennyson, Lyng, Fennelly all recently returned from long-enough injuries. Really, tiredness should not be an issue.
Quote from: johnneycool on August 06, 2009, 12:28:28 PM
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 06, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Just to add to this. Tennyson got 8 stitches in a training match last week. Didn't even get a free apparently for the incident. Tennyson expected to have to go to hospital to get stitched. Cody told him to go into the dressing room , get stitched and resume his position on the field.
Tennyson duly did- as he'd well aware if he doesn't somebody else will.
Thats the difference. Kilkenny get nothing on the field of play they don't get in training.
Serious ?? Cody is not much of a ref by all accounts. This confirms it.
Just because you get a cut doesn't necessarily mean it should be a free. Shit happens
[/b]
I know but a cut requiring 8 stitches might be a free ??
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 06, 2009, 01:16:15 PM
And as regards intensity or lack thereof. Thats not true. Its intense as ever. Theres some tiredness there perhaps but theres no lack of effort or intensity among the players. What I was more worried about was that none of the forwards really set the world alight. Actually, Riche Power did, but faded after a bit. I'll revise that forward selection I put there earlier. Theres no way Power won't start. Hes playing too well. Rice will be the one from those I picked most likely to make way.
And, as regards tiredness - Kilkenny have Hickey, Cha, Hogan, Tennyson, Lyng, Fennelly all recently returned from long-enough injuries. Really, tiredness should not be an issue.
As I said I would take it with a pinch of salt, The standards that the management set is so high that any drop would be considered worrying for them.
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 01:47:49 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 06, 2009, 12:28:28 PM
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 06, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Just to add to this. Tennyson got 8 stitches in a training match last week. Didn't even get a free apparently for the incident. Tennyson expected to have to go to hospital to get stitched. Cody told him to go into the dressing room , get stitched and resume his position on the field.
Tennyson duly did- as he'd well aware if he doesn't somebody else will.
Thats the difference. Kilkenny get nothing on the field of play they don't get in training.
Serious ?? Cody is not much of a ref by all accounts. This confirms it.
Just because you get a cut doesn't necessarily mean it should be a free. Shit happens
[/b]
I know but a cut requiring 8 stitches might be a free ??
Eh?
When will the teams be named?
Quote from: johnneycool on August 06, 2009, 02:39:31 PM
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 01:47:49 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 06, 2009, 12:28:28 PM
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 06, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 06, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
Was talking to my auld lad who knows somebody inside the Kilkenny camp, apparently they are not training with the same intensity and the players seem tired! He fears an ambush on Sunday. I will take it with a pinch of salt to be honest this same guy thinks that if there is no blood on your jersey then you are not playing with intensity ;D
Just to add to this. Tennyson got 8 stitches in a training match last week. Didn't even get a free apparently for the incident. Tennyson expected to have to go to hospital to get stitched. Cody told him to go into the dressing room , get stitched and resume his position on the field.
Tennyson duly did- as he'd well aware if he doesn't somebody else will.
Thats the difference. Kilkenny get nothing on the field of play they don't get in training.
Serious ?? Cody is not much of a ref by all accounts. This confirms it.
Just because you get a cut doesn't necessarily mean it should be a free. Shit happens
[/b]
I know but a cut requiring 8 stitches might be a free ??
Eh?
When will the teams be named?
Teams named tonight.
Kilkenny usually name their team on the friday night before a game.
no reason to think it'll be any way different this time.
Davy has named the same team except that Eoin Mc Grath comes in for Shane Casey in the corner. Ken and Dan on the binch.
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 11:48:17 PM
Davy has named the same team except that Eoin Mc Grath comes in for Shane Casey in the corner. Ken and Dan on the binch.
Jamie Nagle also out too...Walsh in
Any word on KK team ?
I think waterford could have their day because, even though they wouldn't have a hope in a final, they might catch them in a final. I don't think they will but....you never know..
Kilkenny 1-25 3-12 Waterford
I said a while ago that for some unkown feeling in my water, I didn't think Kilkenny would win the All Ireland this year. I have a sneaky suspicion that Limerick might take Tipp, and I can't see them losing the final to Limerick.
Following this highly illogical thought pattern, I reckon that Waterford might just cause a shock here tomorrow. Hickey being back in contention is absolutely huge for the Cats, and a big blow for Waterford, but I just can't shake off a nagging feeling that the likes of Eoin Kelly, Brick Walsh and co might just step up to the mark tomorrow.
Kilkenny don't do 'slip ups' usually, but a team that moves the ball fast against them might just catch them in a semi final, if they can get on top in the half back line, and keep the scoreboard ticking over.
f**k it. Waterford by 2.
Having seen Waterford live against Galway I can't see it. Galway threw that game away Waterford didn't win it. Waterford didn't overly impress bar their fighting resolve. Have some fine players but kilkenny will stretch them. Won't be anything like last years score but kilkenny by about 8 points for me.
You're probably right INDIANA, but as I said, I just feel something in my water. Kilkenny were immense last September, and Waterford were well below their best. I can't see Kilkenny reproducing a display like that, nor can I see Waterford folding like a cheap suit.
I'd reckon the line is about 8 points as you suggest, but in Hurling, as you know, a goal or two at vital times can see an 8 point favourite suddenly being up against it.
I'm sticking to my gut feel for now :D
Fingers crossed for the Deise. Wouldn't a Waterford-Limerick final be marvellous ?
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2009, 12:19:00 PM
Fingers crossed for the Deise. Wouldn't a Waterford-Limerick final be marvellous ?
Marvellous? It would be the worst All Ireland final since 1996!
Fist off well done to kilkenny on reaching another AI final but are the RTE commentary team and analysts under instructions to talk up every hurling game? Kilkenny were 5-7 points up all through this game and rarely looked in trouble yet Canning et al are trying to tell us it was some sort of classic, it was a decent game but hardly edge of the seat stuff and there was plenty of loode play around the middle of the pitch.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on August 09, 2009, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2009, 12:19:00 PM
Fingers crossed for the Deise. Wouldn't a Waterford-Limerick final be marvellous ?
Marvellous? It would be the worst All Ireland final since 1996!
Jesus typical Tipp, if there is no kk, Cork or Tipp in the final it's a bad year! I honestly believe the Cats have a massive game in them and Tipp may be humiliated this year
Tipp are the hurling equivalent of France at the UN. Why does France still have a permanent security council seat? Why do people talk about Tipp in the same breath as Cork and the cats ? Tipp stopped winning consistently shortly after De Gaulle died. I remember hoping they'd make the breakthrough back in the early 80s. In many ways I am still waiting.
Well done to KK - Yet another final appearance - comfortable winners - a repeat of last year's AI final was never going to be on the cards. Well done to Waterford for salvaging a bit of pride.
Looks like KK are just doing enough in each match this year. There seems to be another gear left in them for some reason, which might
be bad news for their final opponents, whoever that might be, probably Tipp.
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2009, 07:32:37 PM
Tipp are the hurling equivalent of France at the UN. Why does France still have a permanent security council seat? Why do people talk about Tipp in the same breath as Cork and the cats ? Tipp stopped winning consistently shortly after De Gaulle died. I remember hoping they'd make the breakthrough back in the early 80s. In many ways I am still waiting.
Jaysus thats philisophical speaking for yiz now! If all punters were like this chap hurling would be a far more interesting game!
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 09, 2009, 10:34:17 PM
Looks like KK are just doing enough in each match this year. There seems to be another gear left in them for some reason, which might
be bad news for their final opponents, whoever that might be, probably Tipp.
Ya, l didn't expect another show of last year's final. But you couldn't have, that was them peaking, you can't improve on that, it's as close to perfection as you'll get on a hurling pitch.
KK remind me a bit of Cork in 05 when they just did enough each game and went on and won the AI final. And KK like Cork back then, have a lot of milage on the clock, which looks to be showing. They've been going for a long time and have lost a bit of their bite.
I didn't think they'd win the AI this year, I thought Galway would beat them, but that didn't happened so I hoped Waterford would, I doubt Tipp/Limerick will beat KK in the final, so this looks to be their year again.
But I can't see them winning the AI next year, they've too much milage on that clock, it's got nothing to do with age or ability, they're just going stale.
They're lucky in a sense, they put all their efforts into hurling, no football, or other sports like rugby or soccer, even looking at Cork, our team could be massively improved if we could take Cussen and Aidan Walsh from the footballers, they don't have the pressure of the dual codes. They put all their efforts into hurling, and clearly it shows. But this team has been going for a long time, and I know KK people like to tell themselves that every player on the team is replaceable and the lads on the bench, even their "second string" team is as good as the starting team, but they're not. And IF they win it this year, I think it'll be the end of this current KK team. Whether they win it again next season with a new fresh team is another question completley. But the team looks tired and lacks hunger. KK have a lot of gears, and today (this season really) they looked like they could go up another gear if they needed to. But the KK team of last season would just go up the gears as high as they could every game. They look to be getting stale. The only ones that can stop this Kilkenny side, is Kilkenny themselves. And I think that might be the case next season. They look tired. They look like they're forcing it a bit, just doing enough each time, when last season and a few before that, they'd hit up as big a score as they could.
KK could well come out and destroy Tipp (if it's Tipp, I've a funny feeling Limerick could catch Tipp out, which, while I wanted Limerick in the final a few weeks ago, I don't know, purely because it wouldn't be a competition. It'll be interesting to see what's left in this KK team, all season so far they've just done enough to win games. It'll be interesting to see in the final if they've still the hunger to go and humiliate a team, completley blow them out of the water, or just do enough to get by. The ability is clearly still there, but is the hunger?
Winning the AI by one point or twenty points is the same thing. You get handed the Liam Mc Carthy and an AI cross at a dinner dance later in the year. The following year takes care of itself. Right now, KK won't be worried about 2010, they'll be focussing on 6th September.
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 12:12:01 AM
Winning the AI by one point or twenty points is the same thing. You get handed the Liam Mc Carthy and an AI cross at a dinner dance later in the year. The following year takes care of itself. Right now, KK won't be worried about 2010, they'll be focussing on 6th September.
They wont care, but we will, the rest of us who still hold out hope of winning an AI in the next few seasons. We all know that KK have the ability to go on and win more AI's but, if the hunger starts to go, then the rest should follow after that. Winning itself so consistantly can in some ways become almost a burden of sorts. There's always that massive pressure to win there. In 06 Cork were going on this unbeaten run, and we were saying how if we lost before it got serious it'd be almost a good thing, just to get it out of the way and bring back the hunger. But we didn't, and at the end of the day in 06 the hunger, the will to win it wasn't really there, and we were beaten by a KK team who had our game plan totally worked out. They were better, but they were much more fired up then we were. They had something to prove, we didn't not really, because all we had been doing was winning. I can't really explain it better then that.
Are you trying to compare the KK and the Cork teams ?
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 12:30:54 AM
Are you trying to compare the KK and the Cork teams ?
In a way I was I suppose, and so what if I was. For a few years Cork were better then the KK team. And as I've clearly pointed out, all I'm saying is that what I see in KK now, is how the Cork team were in 05/06 how they lost the hunger which was key to them going down hill (though I do think KK will be able to replace players easier then Cork.) I was using it as an example. I'm not sure what else I could have used seeing as it's been Cork/KK with the AI's for almost the last 10 years. If you like I could use Kerry footballers if you like. They lacked hunger and that led to them being beaten by the better team, who were more hungry and had a point to prove.
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 12:45:23 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 12:30:54 AM
Are you trying to compare the KK and the Cork teams ?
In a way I was I suppose, and so what if I was. For a few years Cork were better then the KK team. And as I've clearly pointed out, all I'm saying is that what I see in KK now, is how the Cork team were in 05/06 how they lost the hunger which was key to them going down hill (though I do think KK will be able to replace players easier then Cork.) I was using it as an example. I'm not sure what else I could have used seeing as it's been Cork/KK with the AI's for almost the last 10 years. If you like I could use Kerry footballers if you like. They lacked hunger and that led to them being beaten by the better team, who were more hungry and had a point to prove.
There wasn't much in the teams for a while I'll grant you that - now Cork have fallen apart. KK are still there - going for 4 in a orw.
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 01:05:50 AM
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 12:45:23 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 12:30:54 AM
Are you trying to compare the KK and the Cork teams ?
In a way I was I suppose, and so what if I was. For a few years Cork were better then the KK team. And as I've clearly pointed out, all I'm saying is that what I see in KK now, is how the Cork team were in 05/06 how they lost the hunger which was key to them going down hill (though I do think KK will be able to replace players easier then Cork.) I was using it as an example. I'm not sure what else I could have used seeing as it's been Cork/KK with the AI's for almost the last 10 years. If you like I could use Kerry footballers if you like. They lacked hunger and that led to them being beaten by the better team, who were more hungry and had a point to prove.
There wasn't much in the teams for a while I'll grant you that - now Cork have fallen apart. KK are still there - going for 4 in a orw.
Cork "have fallen apart" after going for a 3 in a row. About the same timing if you ask me.
What's different now from when Cork were on top and now is, well KK are a distance apart now, when Cork were winning, teams were more competitive. Now it's just KK, and it has been for about 2 seasons, and while they've gone forward others seem to, for one reason or another fallen back in the progress, obviously that's to take nothing away from KK, they are an incredibly special team.
But it happens to every team, it's called time. Teams go stale. Even the best of teams. This current KK team have a lot of mileage on the clock, and it doesn't matter who you're manager is or how good you're players are. You can't stop the affect that time has on a team.
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 01:15:18 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 01:05:50 AM
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 12:45:23 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 12:30:54 AM
Are you trying to compare the KK and the Cork teams ?
In a way I was I suppose, and so what if I was. For a few years Cork were better then the KK team. And as I've clearly pointed out, all I'm saying is that what I see in KK now, is how the Cork team were in 05/06 how they lost the hunger which was key to them going down hill (though I do think KK will be able to replace players easier then Cork.) I was using it as an example. I'm not sure what else I could have used seeing as it's been Cork/KK with the AI's for almost the last 10 years. If you like I could use Kerry footballers if you like. They lacked hunger and that led to them being beaten by the better team, who were more hungry and had a point to prove.
There wasn't much in the teams for a while I'll grant you that - now Cork have fallen apart. KK are still there - going for 4 in a orw.
Cork "have fallen apart" after going for a 3 in a row. About the same timing if you ask me.
What's different now from when Cork were on top and now is, well KK are a dstance apart now, when Cork we winning teams were more competitive. Now it's just KK, and it has been for about 2 seasons, and while they've gone forward others seem to, for one reason or another fallen back in progress, obviously that's to take nothing away from KK, they are an incredibly special team.
But it happens to every team, it's called time. Teams go stale. Even the best of teams. This current KK team have a lot of mileage on the clock, and it doesn't matter who you're manager is or how good you're players are. You can't stop the affect that time has on a team.
I agree with you. Time catches up with everybody and every team. But Cork didn't seem to realise this as past while. I always said that it was no shame for the Crok team of 2008 that they no longer at the top of their game. Father time caught them up as well. But they didn't realise it at the time. Maybe they do now.
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 01:15:18 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 01:05:50 AM
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 12:45:23 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 12:30:54 AM
Are you trying to compare the KK and the Cork teams ?
In a way I was I suppose, and so what if I was. For a few years Cork were better then the KK team. And as I've clearly pointed out, all I'm saying is that what I see in KK now, is how the Cork team were in 05/06 how they lost the hunger which was key to them going down hill (though I do think KK will be able to replace players easier then Cork.) I was using it as an example. I'm not sure what else I could have used seeing as it's been Cork/KK with the AI's for almost the last 10 years. If you like I could use Kerry footballers if you like. They lacked hunger and that led to them being beaten by the better team, who were more hungry and had a point to prove.
There wasn't much in the teams for a while I'll grant you that - now Cork have fallen apart. KK are still there - going for 4 in a orw.
Cork "have fallen apart" after going for a 3 in a row. About the same timing if you ask me.
What's different now from when Cork were on top and now is, well KK are a dstance apart now, when Cork we winning teams were more competitive. Now it's just KK, and it has been for about 2 seasons, and while they've gone forward others seem to, for one reason or another fallen back in progress, obviously that's to take nothing away from KK, they are an incredibly special team.
But it happens to every team, it's called time. Teams go stale. Even the best of teams. This current KK team have a lot of mileage on the clock, and it doesn't matter who you're manager is or how good you're players are. You can't stop the affect that time has on a team.
I agree with you. Time catches up with everybody and every team. But Cork didn't seem to realise this as past while. I always said that it was no shame for the Crok team of 2008 that they no longer at the top of their game. Father time caught them up as well. But they didn't realise it at the time. Maybe they do now.
Please lets not go into this again, lets not ruin a perfectly good topic when all we're going to do is I say one thing and you say the extreme opposite and nobody comprimises.
I could say how I heard a certain player was retiring, (a rumour from a rumour really) or how if I'd to pick a team, and it'd be the same from most people from Cork, for the season next season it'd have very little names on it that you would know.
But it's not the right topic, and I really don't want to turn this into one.
So lets just stay on topic, please.
I still think that your comparison of the Cork and KK teams is not a fair one. KK are still going - into another final - raging hot favourites - ok they might get bet in the final but I don't think so. This KK is fairly special. Cork had a great team as well but the appeal of the KK team is its longevity and its ability to recreate themselves.
Quote from: orangeman on August 10, 2009, 01:54:13 AM
I still think that your comparison of the Cork and KK teams is not a fair one. KK are still going - into another final - raging hot favourites - ok they might get bet in the final but I don't think so. This KK is fairly special. Cork had a great team as well but the appeal of the KK team is its longevity and its ability to recreate themselves.
I didn't say they'd be beaten in the final, but I do think the hunger seems to be going from them. It doesn't really have anything to do with Cork. Like I said, KK have the ability to remake their team. It might be the end of the road for a few players soon enough, but KK being KK can probably produce another 10 stars.
I said they looked to be lacking that intensity this season that they had in the past few, that's all. Hunger's one thing, ability is another. KK are the best team in the country by a mile, but they seem to be lacking that bite and fire that we saw clearly last season.
Jesus Reillers is it possible for to to talk about hurling without sticking 'Cork' into every second sentence ?
You sound like those evangelist christians who can't have a conversation without mentioning Jesus and how he loves us all. ::)
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 02:20:23 AM
I didn't say they'd be beaten in the final, but I do think the hunger seems to be going from them. It doesn't really have anything to do with Cork. Like I said, KK have the ability to remake their team. It might be the end of the road for a few players soon enough, but KK being KK can probably produce another 10 stars.
I said they looked to be lacking that intensity this season that they had in the past few, that's all. Hunger's one thing, ability is another. KK are the best team in the country by a mile, but they seem to be lacking that bite and fire that we saw clearly last season.
Was disappointed yday, thought KK got there scores too easily, one quick turn into 10 yards of space seemed order of the day..WD had to work alot harder for scores. Like some posters couldnt understand the great game comments, I never thought WD would win at any stage in 2nd half, but for lucky goal, would of been more in it. KK won pulling up. Was glad WD didnt collapse but thought WD could of played better, KK werent at peak performance yday IMO. Disappointed as id have alot of time for WD hurling.
QuoteBut I can't see them winning the AI next year, they've too much milage on that clock, it's got nothing to do with age or ability, they're just going stale.
They're lucky in a sense, they put all their efforts into hurling, no football, or other sports like rugby or soccer, even looking at Cork, our team could be massively improved if we could take Cussen and Aidan Walsh from the footballers, they don't have the pressure of the dual codes. They put all their efforts into hurling, and clearly it shows. But this team has been going for a long time, and I know KK people like to tell themselves that every player on the team is replaceable and the lads on the bench, even their "second string" team is as good as the starting team, but they're not. And IF they win it this year, I think it'll be the end of this current KK team. Whether they win it again next season with a new fresh team is another question completley. But the team looks tired and lacks hunger. KK have a lot of gears, and today (this season really) they looked like they could go up another gear if they needed to. But the KK team of last season would just go up the gears as high as they could every game. They look to be getting stale. The only ones that can stop this Kilkenny side, is Kilkenny themselves. And I think that might be the case next season. They look tired. They look like they're forcing it a bit, just doing enough each time, when last season and a few before that, they'd hit up as big a score as they could
:D :D :D
Nothing like a good laugh to start my Monday morning. Can you remind me Reillers who won the minor game yesterday. Can you remind me who won last years All-Ireland Minor and U21 Hurling Finals?
Quotethey put all their efforts into hurling, no football,
Well at least they don't go on strike.
What tells kilkenny apart from other teams is that they play as a team even when the pressure comes on. They don't normally shoot from mad angles like some of the Waterford lads did yesterday plus they don't miss sitters. Eoin Kelly and Kevin Moran missed good chances in the first half to close the Gap to two or three points, Mullane does wile silly things and runs down blind alleys often with no return. Very very seldom you'll see a KK forward do that.
Thought Barry Kelly caught some of the quick tugs, pulls, pushes and holding that Kilkenny seem to get away with normally as it's very subtle, enough to slow a man down but normally not enough for a free. They're not the only ones at it but they are the masters at it and I suppose its only a free if you're caught. Eoin Larkin was winning free's by going in low in the tackle which meant the mans hurley/hand was around his neck, cute hoorism, but fair play to him. I wonder if big Dan had tried to take a step or two forward instead of trying to kick it would he have got a penalty as JJ Delaney was hanging out of him at that stage?
All is not lost for Waterford as every now and then they unearth a good young player, the likes of Kearney, Molumpy and now Conners and Walsh, who'll have learned a lot yesterday, need to get a dog of a fullback though.
Kilkenny will win the 4 in a row but not the 5 in a row. Looks to me like the edge is going from the current team but people thinking kilkenny are going to enter a slump are codding themselves. Super minor team as was seen yesterday- practically in the all-ireland u21 hurling final. Lads like richie hogan to come in. They may not be as strong as the current unit for a couple of seasons but they aren't going to go away anytime soon.
Quote from: sligeach on August 10, 2009, 07:08:37 AM
Jesus Reillers is it possible for to to talk about hurling without sticking 'Cork' into every second sentence ?
You sound like those evangelist christians who can't have a conversation without mentioning Jesus and how he loves us all. ::)
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 02:20:23 AM
I didn't say they'd be beaten in the final, but I do think the hunger seems to be going from them. It doesn't really have anything to do with Cork. Like I said, KK have the ability to remake their team. It might be the end of the road for a few players soon enough, but KK being KK can probably produce another 10 stars.
I said they looked to be lacking that intensity this season that they had in the past few, that's all. Hunger's one thing, ability is another. KK are the best team in the country by a mile, but they seem to be lacking that bite and fire that we saw clearly last season.
Now it just proves to me that you don't read my posts at all. I've said twice now in my last posts not to talk Cork. I just said right there that it has nothing to do with Cork. Yet you come along and start complaining all over again without reading a single thing I wrote.
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 11:29:01 AM
Quote from: sligeach on August 10, 2009, 07:08:37 AM
Jesus Reillers is it possible for to to talk about hurling without sticking 'Cork' into every second sentence ?
You sound like those evangelist christians who can't have a conversation without mentioning Jesus and how he loves us all. ::)
Quote from: Reillers on August 10, 2009, 02:20:23 AM
I didn't say they'd be beaten in the final, but I do think the hunger seems to be going from them. It doesn't really have anything to do with Cork. Like I said, KK have the ability to remake their team. It might be the end of the road for a few players soon enough, but KK being KK can probably produce another 10 stars.
I said they looked to be lacking that intensity this season that they had in the past few, that's all. Hunger's one thing, ability is another. KK are the best team in the country by a mile, but they seem to be lacking that bite and fire that we saw clearly last season.
Now it just proves to me that you don't read my posts at all. I've said twice now in my last posts not to talk Cork. I just said right there that it has nothing to do with Cork. Yet you come along and start complaining all over again without reading a single thing I wrote.
Your argument would have more credence if you didn't use Cork hurling as a reference point for every post you make.
Hickey back full back and Cha back to fitness will see Kilkenny win this year, add Hogan to the team next year and I think 5 in a row is probable.
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 10, 2009, 12:53:57 PM
Hickey back full back and Cha back to fitness will see Kilkenny win this year, add Hogan to the team next year and I think 5 in a row is probable.
Michael Kavanagh can't keep going forever- JJ not happy at full back. Comerford is struggling. If henry has a bad day kilkenny are vunerable. Its just tiredness in my view. Its impossible to keep this going every year.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 10, 2009, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 10, 2009, 12:53:57 PM
Hickey back full back and Cha back to fitness will see Kilkenny win this year, add Hogan to the team next year and I think 5 in a row is probable.
Michael Kavanagh can't keep going forever- JJ not happy at full back. Comerford is struggling. If henry has a bad day kilkenny are vunerable. Its just tiredness in my view. Its impossible to keep this going every year.
And no team can, like I said, it doesn't matter that Cody's their manager or just how good those players are. This KK team has been on the road for God only knows how many years at this stage. Their hunger is lacking this year, and they're doing just enough each game, but that for me is the first sign that they're getting tired, the first sign that they lack the intensity and fight they had the years before. They peaked last season in the AI final, they were the closest thing to perfection, and you can't go anywhere but down from there. It could be the end for this KK team, probably next season, that said obviously Kilkenny being Kilkenny they could just put in another 15 stars and carry on winning the AI with them, but for this KK team, it's almsot near the end of the road. Times catching up on them, they've a lot of mileage on the clock and they've been on this, what seems like, never ending winning streak, but it has to end somewhere.
IMO the best thing that could have happened KK this season was to loose to Galway in the Leinster Championship, because that would give them something to prove or something to improve on. But they didn't, and this streak has to end somewhere. It can't keep going on forever, and either can their players. You can't keep going from year to year. It has to end somewhere, and for this current KK team, it seems that their time could be up some time in the near future.
Hickey is a major loss at the moment. If JJ was able to play at 7, KK would be a different outfit. The KK underage system is continually producing good players who find it very difficult to get into the senior set up.
KK should win the final. As Indiana says, they mightn't win 5 in a row ( although they might ), but they are not about to enter terminal decline.
Quote from: sligeach on August 10, 2009, 07:08:37 AM
Jesus Reillers is it possible for to to talk about hurling without sticking 'Cork' into every second sentence ?
I'm going to take a wild guess and say no. Reillers could turn the discussion of the African nations cup final around to Cork. ;D
The difference between Kilkenny and Cork teams going stale after a period on top is that Kilkenny are still producing super underage teams (granted they robbed us blind in last year's minor final the feckers). While they may not be as good in years to come they will still have enough quality coming through that they will remain there or thereabouts. Cork just don't have the same quality coming through underneath to replace the older lads.
Who is going to pass Kilkenny out next year though ??? The thing is, in order for Kilkenny to lose they have to be beaten! I just can't see who the contender to the crown is! If Kilkenny win the title this year they know changes need to be made and we all know they have the talent to freshen things up. I think there was a better opportunity this year for them to be caught than there will be next year
Quote from: EddieMerx on August 10, 2009, 03:44:33 PM
Who is going to pass Kilkenny out next year though ??? The thing is, in order for Kilkenny to lose they have to be beaten! I just can't see who the contender to the crown is! If Kilkenny win the title this year they know changes need to be made and we all know they have the talent to freshen things up. I think there was a better opportunity this year for them to be caught than there will be next year
I think Galway or Tipp could take them next year. Remember I'm not talking about Kilkenny disappearing- simply that their standard might fall by 20%. That just means that a couple of teams will have a chance of beating them. They will continue to win all-irelands - they just mighn't do it consecutively- ie 3 and 4 in a row. Even Kilkenny have no player in theri underage ranks as good as Henry . He is absolutely irreplaceable. But the conveyor belt is so strong that kilkenny will always be in the top 2- even in a bad year.
what about big Walter?
Henry and Walter in the same forward division, sounds like a BB soccer team.
Who gives a youngster a name like that nowadays?
Walter Walsh is the next Christy Heffernan
CATS ON THE EDGE OF IMMORTALITY
By Martin Breheny
Monday August 10 2009
A record number of successive championship wins, a place in the All-Ireland final for the eighth time this decade and their four-in-a-row ambitions still very much intact -- that was the bountiful haul Kilkenny extracted from a busy afternoon in Croke Park.
Yet it wasn't without its worries for them, both on the day itself and in terms of the All-Ireland final challenge ahead, as Waterford did enough to offer substantial hope for whoever emerges from next Sunday's second semi-final. The perception of Kilkenny as unquestioned certainties to skate to another All-Ireland triumph will have changed somewhat in the light of certain aspects of yesterday's game.
The depiction of Kilkenny as pre-programmed robots who don't make mistakes is, of course, as inaccurate as it's illogical, but such has been their dominance throughout most of the decade and, more specifically since 2006, that it's very much the working currency among many hurling people.
Match that up with the humiliation which Waterford experienced in last year's All-Ireland final and it really was difficult to make a case against Kilkenny winning a fourth successive semi-final. However, it was equally silly to believe that their dominance would be anywhere nearly as pronounced as in the 2008 All-Ireland final. It was never going to be anything like that simply because Waterford couldn't possibly have been as out-classed again.
Kilkenny's capacity to reach stratospheric levels is well known, so the test for all opposition is to force them into performing at more manageable heights, something which Waterford did at various stages yesterday. Indeed, they were still there right at the end, snapping and snarling at Kilkenny's ankles, leaving the champions' supporters anxiously counting down the seconds.
Kilkenny had five points to spare at the end, but it was mighty close to being only three when Eoin Kelly's whizzing drive brought a great save from PJ Ryan, who diverted the ball over the bar deep in stoppage time. It was a super stop, but then Ryan would have felt that he owed his colleagues something after Waterford had pilfered an unlikely goal in the 63rd minute when Eoin Kelly's '65 dipped into the net.
It was Waterford's third goal of the day, a giveaway rate not often associated with Kilkenny and one which will be the subject of enquiries around Nowlan Park over the next few weeks.
Erupted
It cut Kilkenny's lead to four points, which was the exact same position as Waterford found themselves in against Galway two weeks earlier. And as the Deise roar erupted around Croke Park, the possibility of an upset appeared to be hardening into something real.
However, Kilkenny are no Galway. Their response was calm, measured and effective as they set about creating and finishing the opportunities which would take them safely over the finish line. Two points by Henry Shefflin (free and '65) restored Kilkenny's working majority as they edged a point ahead of their usual average of 28 points.
Those points raised Shefflin's total to 1-14 (1-6 of which came from open play) in one of those dazzling performances he does better than anybody else in the game. It was an important day for him to deliver in style as Shefflin's attacking colleagues rarely got themselves into the collective destruction mode we have seen so often.
Eddie Brennan hit 1-2 but Eoin Larkin, Richie Power and Aidan Fogarty managed just 0-4 between them, while Martin Comerford, man-of-the-match against Dublin in the Leinster final, drew a blank before being replaced by TJ Reid six minutes into the second half.
Most of Shefflin's haul from play was delightfully crafted, especially the goal in the 26th minute when a long delivery from Tommy Walsh skidded past the defence towards the edge of the square. Shefflin's anticipation and reflexes took him onto it quicker than anybody else and he whipped the ball past Clinton Hennessy for a goal that raised real questions for Waterford.
They had seen an early two-point advantage, reached through a goal by Shane Walsh in the fifth minute, not only wiped out but replaced by a six-point deficit, and with haunting images of last year's All-Ireland final still in the memory bank, it was crucial for Waterford not to fall any further behind.
To their credit, their response was far more in keeping with the real character of the side than the pathetic check-out of September '08. They scored the next three points, which proved that their powers of resistance were still very much intact and while Kilkenny reeled off three points of their own just before the break, Waterford were still very much in contention when they trailed by 2-12 to 1-9 at the break.
Significantly, though, Waterford had shot eight first-half wides in a wasteful streak which would cost them dearly. Still, it did show how much possession they had enjoyed and how focused and well organised they really were.
Things got better for Waterford early in the second half when Shane Walsh netted his second goal three minutes after the restart and when Eoin Kelly added a point to pare the deficit to two, it presented Kilkenny with another major test of their resolve. It wasn't found wanting and between then and the 62nd minute they out-scored Waterford by 0-7 to 0-4 and appeared to be powering up for a comfortable finish until Kelly's '65 dropped into the net.
Impossible
Davy Fitzgerald was understandably devastated by the outcome, believing that the game was within Waterford's range and that the first-half misses were ultimately to prove the big difference. It's impossible to decide if, indeed, that were the case. For, while Waterford were within striking distance at the end, Kilkenny had the luxury of never having their lead cut below the dangerous three-point mark from the 46th minute on.
Switching Eoin Kelly out to the half-forward line made an appreciable difference to Waterford in the second half, as he grew increasingly influential and eventually finished on 1-10 (1-7 of which came from placed balls). John Mullane won possession quite often in the first half but was shadowed extremely well by Jackie Tyrell and ended on up on one point, a disappointing return in the circumstances.
Shane Walsh achieved the rare distinction of scoring two goals against Kilkenny while Kevin Moran also did well. In defence, 'Brick' Walsh was a powerful influence at centre-back. Waterford would have been quite happy if they were told in advance that five of Kilkenny's starting six forwards -- plus two subs -- would be limited to a total of 1-7 between them, but then they wouldn't have thought that it would have turned into such a bonanza occasion for King Henry.
Tommy Walsh was Kilkenny's best half-back while Tyrrell and Michael Kavanagh were solid in the corners. Nonetheless, Brian Cody will not be happy with a concession rate of 3-15.
Still, in some respects, it was the ideal way for Kilkenny to reach the final. They were pushed hard, but not to breaking point, by Galway, Dublin and Waterford but worked calmly through all the tests to leave themselves on the edge of sporting immortality.
They have things to work on for the final but, for now, they will be happy to have booked another Croke Park date on September 6 by reeling off their 17th successive championship win, something never previously achieved.
Scorers -- Kilkenny: H Shefflin 1-14 (0-7f, 0-1'65), E Brennan 1-2, E Larkin 0-2, J Fitzpatrick, A Fogarty, R Power, R Hogan, M Rice 0-1 each. Waterford: E Kelly 1-10 (7f, 1-0 '65), S Walsh 2-0, S O'Sullivan, S Prendergast, J Mullane, K Moran, E McGrath 0-1 each.
Kilkenny -- PJ Ryan 6; M Kavanagh 7; JJ Delaney 7, J Tyrrell 8; T Walsh 8, B Hogan 7, J Tennyson 7; J Fitzpatrick 6, M Rice 7; E Brennan 7, M Comerford 5, E Larkin 6; R Power 6, H Shefflin 9, A Fogarty 5. Subs: TJ Reid 6 for Comerford (41), R Hogan 7 for Fogarty (48), D Lyng 6 for Fitzpatrick (57).
Waterford -- C Hennessy 7; E Murphy 7, A Kearney 5, N Connors 7; T Browne 7, M Walsh 8, D Prendergast 6; S Molumphy 5, S O'Sullivan 6; K Moran 7, S Prendergast 5, E McGrath 6; J Mullane 6, S Walsh 7, E Kelly 7. Subs: D Shanahan 5 for S Prendergast (53), M Shanahan 5 for S Walsh (61), J Nagle 5 for Molumphy for (61), K McGrath 5 for E McGrath (64).
Ref -- B Kelly (Westmeath).
The game at a glance
Man of the match
Henry Shefflin (Kilkenny)
He scored 1-14 (1-6 from play) which was crucial on a day when the Kilkenny forward line wasn't as collectively smooth as usual. His goal was a pure gem, finished with pace, power and precision.
Turning point
None. Kilkenny held the advantage most of the way but Waterford kept them honest by coursing them all the way to the finish line.
Talking point
What if Waterford had been more accurate in the first half, during which they shot eight wides? It was a crippling miss rate especially when viewed against the final score.
Ref watch
Like all other referees, Barry Kelly had a problem deciding on what was a high tackle. On several occasions players ducked low into the tackle, drawing the free but what's a defender supposed to do in that situation? It's an area that needs to be sorted out.
They said
"It was exactly as tough as we expected. I don't know, I thought it was a ferocious contest. The All-Ireland final is a smashing place to be." Brian Cody (Kilkenny manager)
"I'm absolutely gutted. I genuinely came up here thinking we were going to win. The mistakes absolutely crucified us. But I can't say enough about the lads. I'm very proud of them."
Davy Fitzgerald (Waterford manager)
Match statistics
Wides: Kilkenny 9 (4); Waterford 11(8)
Frees: Kilkenny 11 (4); Waterford 20 (8)
Yellow Cards: Kilkenny 5 (T Walsh 2, J Fitzpatrick 20, M Comerford 31, M Rice 41, J Tennyson 52); Waterford 4 (E McGrath 2, S Prendergast 17, A Kearney 44, S Molumphy 46)
Red Cards: Kilkenny 0; Waterford 0
Attendance: 61,962.
What next
Kilkenny play Limerick or Tipperary in the All-Ireland final on Sunday, September 6
Henry and Walter in the same forward division, sounds like a BB soccer team.
Who gives a youngster a name like that nowadays?
Normans. Kilkenny are at least half Norman . Fitzes, Hennessys, and Delaneys. Listen to dose accents. Same thing with the way they pronounce r's
in Waterford. Straight out of French. Guillaume became Willie. Henri became Henry.
There is also lots of English blood. Tennysons and Langtons and Rochfords. They didn't speak Irish in Kilkenny for a very long time.
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2009, 08:06:43 PM
They didn't speak Irish in Kilkenny for a very long time.
they were too busy playing hurling.
Henry and Walter are both very common names in South Kilkenny. Its no different from other parts of the country that have common names, such as Fergus in Clare, Jarlath in Galway, etc.
Lots of Walters in Waterford too.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on August 11, 2009, 08:41:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2009, 08:06:43 PM
They didn't speak Irish in Kilkenny for a very long time.
they were too busy playing hurling cricket.
Henry and Walter are both very common names in South Kilkenny. Its no different from other parts of the country that have common names, such as Fergus in Clare, Jarlath in Galway, etc.
Lots of Walters in Waterford too.
fixed that for ya BT :)
fair play to KK on Sunday, better team won in the end and Shefflin really is a super player. Just watched it again on Setanta and the tackling from KK was just ferocious, pity we couldn't kick on when we got it back to two points of a difference but in fairness this is a fantastic KK team. possibly the best ever so no shame in losing to them. Probably Tony Browne's last game at this level but despite losing he can leave intercounty hurling with his head held high after last years disappointment / collapse. Still we have a bit of hope for next year after this and you never know....
forever the optimist I suppose...