Watched the Cavan Fermanagh game on Saturday night on tv. Have to say it was dire (amount of mistakes made and examples of lack of basic skills were there for all to see), the GAA equivalent of Institute V Dungannon Swifts in the Irish soccer league.
Is Ulster football really all its cracked up to be and is the Ulster Football Championship really all that difficult to win, given this Fermanagh team almost won it last year. In short, have Spillane and all got it right?
Well it depends.
Tyrone are imo the best team in the country and up until recently Armagh were right there beside them. You also have a glut of teams on a similar level. Of these 5 or so teams (Monaghan, Derry, Down, Fermanagh, Donegal) each can beat each other which means the games are competitive. This has unfortunately lead to bitterness creeping into the whole Ulster Championship. If you look at the other provinces there is generally a spread of ability in the teams and one is obviously better than the other. I think if Leinster for example got tight the same thing would happen.
That's not true at all, only Tyrone or Armagh have won Ulster in the last 10 years and Tyrone are strong favourites to win it again this year so how is Ulster 'tight'? Ulster is the same as the other provinces, it has one or two outstanding teams and the rest are incapable of beating them. Now that Armagh are gone Ulster really only has one outstanding team that the rest of the country would fear, though Derry are coming good, so they might have two soon. There are a lot of very poor teams in Ulster and outside of Tyrone, no exceptional ones.
i was at yesterday's leinster football game between the dubs and meath and to be honest it was absolutely shocking. the dubs going for 5 in a row says just how bad the standard is there at the minute. neither cavan nor fermanagh will be worrying the engravers this year!!
QuoteOf these 5 or so teams (Monaghan, Derry, Down, Fermanagh, Donegal) each can beat each other which means the games are competitive. This has unfortunately lead to bitterness creeping into the whole Ulster Championship.
My own view is that Ulster is 'tight' only because it's very poorly refereed - as Zulu says, Tyrone are easily the best team, but could find themselves in 'danger' because Derry/Armagh/Monaghan might decide, tactically, to kick them off the field, and feel confident that they'd be allowed (by the referee) to do so.
I've found Ulster football to be quite poor this year, with the only decent match being the Tyrone v Armagh game. Normally Ulster is much better, so hopefully this is just a blip and the Antrim v Donegal game will be much better.
QuoteThat's not true at all, only Tyrone or Armagh have won Ulster in the last 10 years and Tyrone are strong favourites to win it again this year so how is Ulster 'tight'? Ulster is the same as the other provinces, it has one or two outstanding teams and the rest are incapable of beating them. Now that Armagh are gone Ulster really only has one outstanding team that the rest of the country would fear, though Derry are coming good, so they might have two soon. There are a lot of very poor teams in Ulster and outside of Tyrone, no exceptional ones.
I don't see how Derry are coming good - what have they shown to suggest that they are a major force in Championship football? Beating Monaghan? I agree with Billy, I would be worried about the standard of refereeing and the man in the middle will have a big say in the Tyrone and Derry match, he could let Derry spoil Tyrone or let the two teams play football.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 08, 2009, 01:21:06 PM
I've found Ulster football to be quite poor this year, with the only decent match being the Tyrone v Armagh game. Normally Ulster is much better, so hopefully this is just a blip and the Antrim v Donegal game will be much better.
I hope you are taking the p1ss ziggy
QuoteI don't see how Derry are coming good - what have they shown to suggest that they are a major force in Championship football?
Well they've played in the last two league finals, beat Monaghan this year and ran Dublin very close 2 years ago (I think) and they have plenty of quality players. Now you can dismiss the league and say Monaghan or Dublin aren't great but they are both teams which would be regarded as top 8 by most so this suggests Derry are one of the better teams outside of the top two. And for all those who dismiss the league, the final is generally contested by two of the better teams in the country and Derry are definitely one of those.
How good was Limerick V Clare yesterday?
Now that the anti-football employed by both Monaghan and Fermanagh is no longer a feature of this year's Ulster championship, I feel that the overall quality of the remaining games will be much higher than some of the muck-fests we have seen so far this year. The only decent game thusfar has been the Tyrone - Armagh game, i.e. the only game not featuring either the Farney or Erne men.
I have been advised to put a small bet on Antrim to take Donegal next weekend.
Quote from: rrhf on June 08, 2009, 01:36:18 PM
How good was Limerick V Clare yesterday?
The first half was good fare but the second half was fairly poor. Overall the standard of football wasn't great but I think Limerick will prove a tough nut top crack for any tean from here on in.
When Ulster is good it's very very good when it's bad it's shocking .
There definitely seems to a lot less fight in the dog in the other provinces, maybe with the exception of Cork v Kerry & Mayo v Galway.
I think teams seem to taking it a lot easier this time of year with a view to trying to peak much later on in the summer when they know its definite knock-out
The team selections & overall effort put in yesterday by the Dubs & maybe even Kerry seemed verty lacklustre as if they couldn't give a damn if they went back door.
Quote from: rrhf on June 08, 2009, 01:56:11 PM
I have been advised to put a small bet on Antrim to take Donegal next weekend.
No more than 50p rrhf...This Antrim team is nowhere near good enough...Donegal by 8
Quote from: Zulu on June 08, 2009, 12:06:45 PM
That's not true at all, only Tyrone or Armagh have won Ulster in the last 10 years and Tyrone are strong favourites to win it again this year so how is Ulster 'tight'? Ulster is the same as the other provinces, it has one or two outstanding teams and the rest are incapable of beating them. Now that Armagh are gone Ulster really only has one outstanding team that the rest of the country would fear, though Derry are coming good, so they might have two soon. There are a lot of very poor teams in Ulster and outside of Tyrone, no exceptional ones.
What I meant was outside of Tyrone and Armagh all the other teams are equal enough and are striving to make an Ulster final. If you look at Leinster, Carlow and Wicklow and Offaly are considerably worse than Laois and Kildare and Meath who are in turn a good bit off Dublin who aren't great either.
Same in Connacht NY and London are a joke, Leitrim, Ros and Sligo on a similar level and then Mayo and Galway way ahead.
Basically Ulster is large enough and even enough (bar Tyrone and Armagh) than any other county believes they can beat the other - give this a couple of years and bitterness and negativity will emerge. That is unfortunately the trap alot of teams in Ulster have fallen into
I don't really think that is true, in Ulster you have Tyrone out on their own, then you have Derry and Monaghan, after that it would be Armagh and Donegal, with Fermanagh, Down and Cavan probably next, and Antrim propping up the lot. Now you could argue about which teams should be in each level but it certainly isn't a case of Tyrone out in front and the rest more or less the same, there are levels in Ulster just like there are in other provinces.
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 08, 2009, 12:54:18 PM
[
My own view is that Ulster is 'tight' only because it's very poorly refereed -
Would this refer to all games or only those played in the 6 Cos where there's no Garda protection for the Ref ? ;)
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 08, 2009, 12:54:18 PM
QuoteOf these 5 or so teams (Monaghan, Derry, Down, Fermanagh, Donegal) each can beat each other which means the games are competitive. This has unfortunately lead to bitterness creeping into the whole Ulster Championship.
My own view is that Ulster is 'tight' only because it's very poorly refereed - as Zulu says, Tyrone are easily the best team, but could find themselves in 'danger' because Derry/Armagh/Monaghan might decide, tactically, to kick them off the field, and feel confident that they'd be allowed (by the referee) to do so.
I'm gonna have to get you to explain that one as it is refereed by the same set of refs as the other provinces, the days of it being reffed only by Ulster refs have gone, yer man Hickey was from Clare, for example, and this year's Ulster championship has seen probably the best refereeing performance by Pat McEneaney.
Your point about Tyrone being
easily the best team doesn't stack up. If they were then they would have dominated the competition over the past number of years.
They are now.
Quote from: Zulu on June 08, 2009, 09:38:57 PM
They are now.
We'll see...........I think the Tyrone-Derry semi is the final but I think it will be close.
I just disagree that it's tight because it's reffed poorly, Down didn't try to "kick" Tyrone out of it last year when they beat them. Billy has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster. Armagh didn't get a chance to "kick" Tyrone out of it since 2005 in Ulster and they won two titles in the last three years.
Paper thin argument.
Quote from: mackers on June 08, 2009, 09:11:38 PM
I'm gonna have to get you to explain that one as it is refereed by the same set of refs as the other provinces, the days of it being reffed only by Ulster refs have gone, yer man Hickey was from Clare, for example, and this year's Ulster championship has seen probably the best refereeing performance by Pat McEneaney.
You were doing alright until you scored an own goal.
QuoteBilly has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster.
I said nothing of the sort, thank you kindly.
My own view is that Ulster is 'tight' only because it's very poorly refereed - as Zulu says, Tyrone are easily the best team, but could find themselves in 'danger' because Derry/Armagh/Monaghan might decide, tactically, to kick them off the field, and feel confident that they'd be allowed (by the referee) to do so.
[/quote]
Billy, the above post implies that the only way the rest of Ulster has of beating Tyrone is by "kicking" them off the park, or did you mean something else?
I don't think it's the only way, but (to me, for as far back as I can remember, and that's quite a while) Ulster is the province where that tactic seems to be accepted by referees as within the rules. I might draw your attention to the uproar when any (non-Ulster) referee tries to apply the rules - e.g. John Bannon and Armagh.
Quote from: mackers on June 08, 2009, 10:48:09 PM
Quote from: Zulu on June 08, 2009, 09:38:57 PM
They are now.
We'll see...........I think the Tyrone-Derry semi is the final but I think it will be close.
I just disagree that it's tight because it's reffed poorly, Down didn't try to "kick" Tyrone out of it last year when they beat them. Billy has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster. Armagh didn't get a chance to "kick" Tyrone out of it since 2005 in Ulster and they won two titles in the last three years.Paper thin argument.
didn't watch the ulster final replay that year then did you??
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 09, 2009, 12:04:01 PM
I don't think it's the only way, but (to me, for as far back as I can remember, and that's quite a while) Ulster is the province where that tactic seems to be accepted by referees as within the rules. I might draw your attention to the uproar when any (non-Ulster) referee tries to apply the rules - e.g. John Bannon and Armagh.
Think we'll have to agree to disagree, don't really see your point. I'm not denying that matches in Ulster can be terrible to watch (Derry - Monaghan and Saturday night's game are good examples) but your statement that other teams only being able to beat Tyrone by kicking them off the field is unfair.
Quote from: talktothehand on June 09, 2009, 01:29:31 PM
Quote from: mackers on June 08, 2009, 10:48:09 PM
Quote from: Zulu on June 08, 2009, 09:38:57 PM
They are now.
We'll see...........I think the Tyrone-Derry semi is the final but I think it will be close.
I just disagree that it's tight because it's reffed poorly, Down didn't try to "kick" Tyrone out of it last year when they beat them. Billy has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster. Armagh didn't get a chance to "kick" Tyrone out of it since 2005 in Ulster and they won two titles in the last three years.Paper thin argument.
didn't watch the ulster final replay that year then did you??
Please note the word "since" in my post. I think the point that most Tyrone people complained about after that match was the poor refereeing, not Armagh's rough play.
And where was the ref from that day?..........
Quoteyour statement that other teams only being able to beat Tyrone by kicking them off the field is unfair
I made no such statement.
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 09, 2009, 03:08:02 PM
Quoteyour statement that other teams only being able to beat Tyrone by kicking them off the field is unfair
I made no such statement.
What point were trying to make in your first post on this thread, I've told you how I have picked you up on it. Am I wrong? Ulster is ONLY tight because it is reffed poorly.....................other teams may decide to tactically kick them off the field and refs let them do so....................what am I missing?