I know a lot of us have been critical about a number of things in the Mayo set-up over the last few months but the last few weeks have shown some positive developments and I think we can look forward to the Summer with some form of confidence. Sam will not be arriving on the last train to Westport on a Monday night in the middle of September but a Connacht Championship, and even perhaps an All Ireland semi-final are ascertainable goals if progress continues.
i was looking back on old posts from the Derry game thread (if we had won that one we would be in the league final) and this is what I was looking for from the league:
QuoteWhat I would like to see over the league is:
A. A development of a team for championship football.
B. A more commonsense tactical approach including some attempt at a defensive game plan.
C. Players taking responsibility on the pitch and digging in when the going gets tough with a never-say-die attitude.
D. A strong performance in Salthill/Tuam to lay down a marker for the Connacht Championship.
Suprisingly for a Mayo team I think they have met my expectations!! :
QuoteA development of a team for championship football.
While there are positiions still up for grabs I think we know most the championship line-up at this stage. It will be a mistake if any of the returning old-stagers and thrown into the starting mix. Keith Higgins and Trevor Howley do not have the match fitness for Championship football either, so at most one of the five i.e. Higgins is likely to walk back into the team, and that should be for Liam O'Malley in my opinion who got another roasting yesterday.
Central positions have been nailed down - Cafferkey, Cunniffe and O'Shea have all been excellent. Trevor has had a good league - he is frustrating, and not the best answer maybe at number 11 but he will be there. McGarrity, Harte and Parsons will all start - the way they line out will be interesting.
Aidan O'Shea has been phenomenal and has the ability even at this stage to make his mark this Summer. He is strong enough, hungry enough and is leading that team - none of the experienced lads are shouting and ordering about the pitch - it is an 18 year old that is doing it! Tweaking is required to bring Conor Mortimer into the game as a beneficiary of the balls going into O'Shea. Alan Dillon is of course our other class act. Personally I think it will be a mistake if either Austin O'Malley or Mickey Sweeney are there come the big games. They will not perform. And for all his endeavour the Tyrone match has shown that Mark Ronadlson is just too small at this level and would be a passenger in a big Summer game - in fact yesterday it was like playing a man short at times.
QuoteA more commonsense tactical approach including some attempt at a defensive game plan
The backs are a lot tighter, tougher, disciplined and focused. Some great work being done here. 5 mintues into the Donegal game we conceded our third and last goal of this league campaign. Last year we conceded 10! Speaks for itself.
QuotePlayers taking responsibility on the pitch and digging in when the going gets tough with a never-say-die attitude.
The bad starts must be addressed urgently - it has been going on now for 3/4 years. But the lads are digging deep and coming back, they are hitting harder and their willingness to fight cannot be questioned.
Quote[A strong performance in Salthill/Tuam to lay down a marker for the Connacht Championship.
We can tick that box as well - it was a big blow to Galway to miss out on the league final for the second year in a row. Their confidence about sealing the big deals must be low after that - when you add in their failure to win a Quarter Final since 2001, to throw away good league positions the last two years, and to let kerry away when they were on the rack last year, like ourselves they have demons to exorcise.
So those who are going to NYC have a great time - it is a good chance for the team to bond and think of the challenges ahead. If we can overcome Ros/Leitrim, JOM will be a very popular man if he can land JJ Nestor by the sea in July
Quote from: Barney on April 13, 2009, 09:21:34 AM
We can tick that box as well - it was a big blow to Galway to miss out on the league final for the second year in a row.
I think they'll get it over it Barney. There have been no comments on the Kerry v Galway thread since Good Friday, which is a comment in itself. Those boys aren't worried about playing each other until August or September. Anything before then is just a training game.
I think Mayo have progressed very nicely over the league and we are seeing some shape to the team, in my opinion we will have a very strong versatile bench for the summer with plenty of lads capable of coming in if the starters are struggling.
Barney i dont think you can dismiss ronaldson on yesterdays performance, wasnt at the game but have seen him on a couple of occassions and he has impressed me as an intelligent football, i also think higgins will walk back into that team but i think it will be moran or gardiner who will be struggling.
Based on what we've seen in the league i really would like to see JOM picking a team something like this:
Clarke
O'Malley
Caff
McLoughlin
Gardiner
Cuniffe
Higgins
MacGarrity
Heaney
Harte
Parsons
Trevor
Conor
O Shea
Dillon
strong half forward line to supplement our light enough mid field, can dillon play in the corner??
If you look at the players not on that team its a strong enough panel, Higgins, Nallen, Moran, Barry Moran, Billy Joe, Vaugan, COnroy, Ronaldson, Sweeney, Austin.
I think we're in a far stronger position than we were this time last year, especially in defence. I'd like to see a team along these lines at some point later in the year:
Clarke
McLoughlin Cafferkey Higgins (not sure which one)
Cunniffe Heaney Gardiner
McGarrity Parsons
Harte T. Mortimer Dillon
C. Mortimer O'Shea A. Moran
I've picked Andy in the corner but in reality I'd expect to see him further out the field with Harte chipping in at midfield. That defence looks far stronger than the one that got roasted by Galway in the first half of the Connacht Final. I rate Howley highly and would maybe like to see him force his way in there somewhere as well when he gets back fully fit.
That team still leaves the other Higgins, Howley, Nallen, Barrett and Liam O'Malley as defensive subs and Kilcoyne, Sweeney, Barry Moran, BJP and Ronaldson in reserve up the field.
Its not an All-Ireland winning team by any means, but the majority of those lads played under 21 on either the 2004 team or later, so theres a lot to be hopeful for in the future.
All in all, I'm a lot happier now than I was half way through the Donegal match in the league.
Any truth to this story in the Indo? More rumors about McD
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/mcdonald-in-frame-for-mayo-comeback-1706489.html
Good thread Barney and interesting blog there The Flame Still Burns.
I recall arguing here in 2004 with Barney that he/we should aim higher than a Connacht Title or semi final. I feel the same way again as other than Kerry in an AIF we shouldn't really be bowing to anyone. That doesn't mean I think we are better than everyone else, just that I think on our day we can beat them.
Why wouldn't we aim for the All Ireland? Why bother otherwise?
I think this team/squad can win an All Ireland.
I would look at the following XV with an interesting full forward line:
D Clarke
L O'Malley G Cafferkey K McLoughlin
D Heaney T Cunniffe K Higgins
R McGarrity T Parsons
P Harte T Mort A Dillon
A O'Shea C Mort B Moran
Bench: A Higgins & Gardiner experienced defensive subs along with Barret & Boyle. If Howley is fully fit he might challenge for the most of the defensive positions.
Most of the midfielders would be already on the pitch but Seamus O'Shea would be worth a place on the bench.
Up front BJP/Andy Moran and Ronaldson/Kilcoyne would be covering the workers and the scorers respectively.
Perhaps we are too quick to rein in our hopes Muppet. I guess its once bitten, twice shy type stuff. Kerry are the only team we fear. But at this stage I'm not looking past a potential Connacht title for 2009 (some will say even that is getting ahead of ourselves). If we get to an All-Ireland quarter-final or semi-final then obviously we can reappraise then but I reckon a wait and see policy is wisest for now.
With regard to your team it is an interesting full-forward line. We might be too quick to dismiss Barry Moran because Aidan O'Shea is doing so well. You could be right - why not play both and that's how Mayo finished on Sunday. Can't see Gardiner being dropped personally but we're coming together fairly middling all in all.
Quote from: muppet on April 13, 2009, 09:47:01 PM
I think this team/squad can win an All Ireland.
I would look at the following XV with an interesting full forward line:
D Clarke
L O'Malley G Cafferkey K McLoughlin
D Heaney T Cunniffe K Higgins
R McGarrity T Parsons
P Harte T Mort A Dillon
A O'Shea C Mort B Moran
Bench: A Higgins & Gardiner experienced defensive subs along with Barret & Boyle. If Howley is fully fit he might challenge for the most of the defensive positions.
Most of the midfielders would be already on the pitch but Seamus O'Shea would be worth a place on the bench.
Up front BJP/Andy Moran and Ronaldson/Kilcoyne would be covering the workers and the scorers respectively.
I had considered the big two men inside (O'Shea and B Moran) as well, but in the end I thought there might be a lack of mobility in there with both of them, so I went for something else. I think the 15 position is a bit of a problem one for us actually, I've yet to be convinved that AOM or Sweeney are up to Championship standard (early days for Sweeney though).
That leaves you trying to stick one of the half-forwards into the full forward line. Someone out of Dillon/Andy/Kilcoyne/Ronaldson. I just don't think corner forward suits Dillon, so I went for Andy. But I'm still not sure if that's the answer either. Will be interested to see if Jason Doherty could step up in a years time.
As for the All-Ireland, I reckon that 15, plus one or two more of the young lads, could be good enough when the spine of the team - Cafferkey, Parsons and O'Shea get more championship football under their belts, but I think its at least a year too soon for them yet.
(ps Good work with the blog, TFSB, its a great read)
While I m pleased with a lot of what I ve seen this Spring I would nt be as optimistic as some. I think much of what has been positive has been due the individual form of some and the arrival of likes of Cafferkey, McLoughlin and O Sé on the senior scene. Their cv s have been loaded for years now anyway and its a relief only that they ve been as good as they have been. But overall I m not convinced we have a team that will perform in Championship. I m not sure at all we have a spine of a team.... or should I say a spine that will last. But at this stage 3,6,8,9,11, and 14 fairly settled but not necessarily our best options. Last 2 years we had a spine as well in Spring.
I attended 5 league games, Derry, Dublin, Wmeath, Galway and Tyrone. Only v Wmeath were we in control and comfortable. In the other 4 games we looked swamped at times but in fairness recovered well in the last 2. Worryingly with the aid of a good breeze in the last 3 games we struggled to close out the games we should have won and just got there in Tuam. Most worryingly Tyrone took charge of Sundays game in last 10 mins and created chance after chance from their own defence without a Mayo player landing a glove on them. It amounted to a collapse of sorts. From a position when we were 2 clear with a following wind.
The positives for me have been.
David Clarke.
Cafferkey and McLoughlin( though he looked like a tourist at times last day - stage fright I guess)
McGarrity( more of a hunch he s going to have a big year)
Harte and Parsons ( moves like Ferrari)
Dillon when he s been healthy.
O Sé obviously.
Negatives.
No proper freetaker.
Not enough 'dog' in the backs. If the new rules were left in place maybe we could go with them. No danger of anybody ever getting sent off. Not once the last day was any Tyrone runner stopped in his tracks. The runners were nt coming down the wings. They were coming down the middle.
Midfielders obsessed with high catching. This needs to stop and get proper ball winning strategies on our own kick- outs. Hughes broke all McGar ball ( not blaming McGar or Clarke, the culture has to change) the last day first half and Tyrone won the breaks. Parsons has to work when he does nt have the ball. In fact the whole team needs to learn how to track a runner.
We are shy forward options in the squad. We ll be very watery on the bench. Our forwards are Harte, Padden, Trevor, Andy maybe( all utility players to be honest)
Conor, O Sé, Dillon, Ronaldson, Barry Moran and Austin at a push. I know this sounds callous but cant see the sense of persisting with Kilcoyne or Mikey Sweeney(this year anyway)
Jason Doherty looks a better bet than Sweeney. He s a predator and hardy as well. I would have Freeman straight in as well as he is a proper wing man and knows his game.
Iffy bits.
Not convinced with Cuniffe at 6 or Trevor at 11. I counted five times v Tyrone when Trevor gave up the ball by either poor handling or poor passing in second half when we were in closing out the game territory. One kicked pass flew over the reciever s head by about 4 feet and over the sideline. Tyrone built and scored from the line ball. That cancels out his great point. Unforgivable in a close game. Rough but if we want to compete with the best we have to match their standards but not necessarily ape their style.
Ronaldson. He went from man of the match in Tuam to looking out of his depth against Philip Jordan. I dunno?
Peadar Gardiner does so many good things but shoots like a drunk. After landing 2 big ones in Tuam he was terrible against Tyrone. From 7 good attacking positions he made we got zilch return. Davy Harte got on the end of things twice and scored 2 points. Its differences like this that explain why 1 team wins silver and the other does not. So do we persist with Peadar or go with a player like Vaughan, McLoughlin( who can kick the football) or Cuniffe on the wing. Unfortunately we have not explored some possibilities in this league. Not blaming management because the U21 campaign was disruptive.
With the new rules probably binned for the championship we might be seen as easy meat for some. Our backs looked bullied in the Derry and Dublin games in particular. Our midfield are thoroughbreds in an area patrolled by warhorses. As I ve said already they re obsessed with trying to catch every ball.
There s not an awful lot wrong that selection and a bit of coaching would nt go a long way to fixing. We have to vary our game between our natural running game and using target men. Some of our attempts to hit O Sé the last day were a joke. We need a couple of players who can hit long early ball like Trevor Giles used to or attacking wing backs who can hit the big boys with accurate diagonal ball with a runner steaming in on support expecting an off-load. We have decent playing resources. The difference the last day was system, coaching and the belief/resolve that comes with success. How we do this year is in the lap of management and coaching. I think we re putting too much emphasis on who is picked where. I d like to see gameplan finetuned and workrate upped.
Other times v Tyrone we hit hopeful ball in with free men in support. This was the case yesterday when Caff got forward and had about 40 yards clear in front of him and instead of being given a 5 yard pass the ball was hoofed down the throat of a Tyrone back standing all on his own. Tyrone countered and cant remembered if they scored or not but its acedemic. We need to be much more clinical. Management could do worse than examine the Tyrone way. They hit the inside forwards early when it suits but when they need to get scores their default mode is a running possession game which in fairness they have developed to perfection. Its the gaelic equivalent of total football with everybody prepared to make a supporting run and make an extra man( Gormely s point) while everybody s prepared to funnel back and track runners as well. They offload to suppport at exactly the right time and passes go to hand. Basic stuff but we dont do it well. We try to beat players when it s not on, turn back, fling ( could nt call it a pass) the ball on the ground, ignore support etc, etc. Defensively the last day last quarter and inlast 10 first half we neither tracked our men or converged on the man in possession. Elbow grease needed here.
Unless the unthinkable happens we re likely to be meeting Galway in Salthill this year. In footballing terms I think we may be ahead of them at this stage. But we dont usually win there against them or anywhere else in recent years. Sammon will know as well that while Galway will play when they have the ball that he can up the ante on Mayo physically. The return of Colman will add more steel and with the likes of Blake and Burke there s plenty of iron behind the velvet. We have to be able to fight fire with fire this year. Not sure what team I would pick yet. I d like to see the form of the vets, Howley and K Higgins but I ll assume they re as good as they were last year and go with this 15. Some of it is about stirring debate but I m going to drop Conor on the grounds that he does nt seem interested in playing with a target man, laying ball off, has not been able to kick 45s and freesfrom distance, has daft shot selection and has been goal-shy for years.
Clarke
Aiden Higgins Cafferkey McLoughlin
Heaney Howley Keith Higgins
McGarrity Seamas Ó Sé
Harte Parsons Trevor
Aiden O Sé Barry Moran Alan Dillon
Dillon to play off the 2 big lads inside. Trevor to dig and unleash hell among the enemy all over the place. Parsons in the forwards until he gets a defensive side to his game and because we need a footballer at 11 and he s the best we have. Howley and Aiden Higgins to add bite to the defence. Seamas O Sé because we need an animal with hairy hoofs around the middle and he d better come through.
I'd agree with a lot of whats said here as most of it is obvious enough. Improvements but not the finished article I think would be the verdict.
One think I don't get from most of the teams lining out here is why so many people are parachuting Heaney back into the team. I mean he's been a great stalwart over the years and I've nothing but respect for the man but one of his great assets was his mobility not his tough defending at 30ish is he able to still do that? Salthill last year would have shown not. I think he's a great addition to the squad but after missing all of the league I wouldn't risk him from the start.
For what it's worth here's my pick.
Clarke
L O'Malley
Cafferkey
McLoughlin
Gardiner
Cunniffe
K. Higgins
McGarrity
Parsons
Trevor
Harte
Dillon
C.Mort
O'Sé/B. Moran
Ronaldson
Gardiner would be lucky to hold on imo ideally I'd have Howley at CB and Cunniffe on the wing but it might be too soon yet to see that. K.Higgins will walk back onto the team if anything I reckon the rest would have done him good. All of our best midfield performances this year have came with McG and Parsons playing together (2nd half in Tuam, 2nd half last weekend, W'meath). Now McG needs to give us a 70 min performance without doubt but Harte isn't the answer at midfield and it's prob too late too throw either O'Sé in there.
Up front we have options and alot of midling players to chose from each with there own strengths. Against Tyrone Austie stayed inside and Mort came out further thats a waster of time. If Mort plays he has to be an out and out corner forward. Austie is prob better in the corner than at 14 but really haven't we seen this before from Austie a good league then disappointing when summer comes. I'd chance someone else and Ronnie has played fairly well throughout the league as good as Austie overall I'd say so give him a spin. O'Sé is too good to leave out but he won't play against NY or Ros I'd say due to exams so give it too B Moran and see how he fairs
Conor out for 6 weeks with 2 broken bones in his hand
Have to say I agree with Kevmy on the Heaney issue. I think he will be a big addition to the squad and a man you could throw in to steady the ship towards the end of a game as the backs are very young, but I wouldn't start him.
My team would be
Clarke
AN Other
Cafferkey
McLoughlin
Cunniffe
Howley
K. Higgins
McGarrity
Parsons
Harte
O'Sé
Dillon
C.Mort
B. Moran
Andy
I can't decide on right-corner back because O'Malley always seems to be in bother at some stage or other, I would put Howley in the corner, the problem is there is only one Howley and all in all I would put him centre back. He plays the position well, he sits and controls the area much better than Cunniffe. For the other corner I have gone for McLoughlin, he was a bit off the pace yesterday but he looks to have alot of potential, if he is going well come championship I would give him a chance.
Cunniffe is a fine athlete but he just doesn't command the centre back area so I would put him out on the wing. I'm afraid Peadar was up to his old tricks the last day so I would replace him with Cunniffe as he is the future. Nallen and Heaney have alot to offer yet so you could see Nallen being slotted into the corner yet, Vaughan is another option.
Keith Higgins is a class act and if fit must be in the team.
The 2 'thoroughbreds', as Moysider calls them, pick themselves. I personally think they are too similar but we haven't had a chance to see the best alternative (Seamus O'Sé) so we will most likely see them in the summer. McGarrity was class the last day which was very encouraging.
I've gone for Aidan O'Se at 11, that's actually his best position and in Barry Moran we have a brillant FF, I don't think we should have such an asset on the bench when we can use O'Se further out the field. I know he hasn't played there for the seniors but he knows the position so well and the lad is ready so that's what I would do.
Harte is a class half forward, that's where you will see the best of him IMO so I'd have him at 10 and the unsung hero Dillon the other side.
For me it has to be Conor in the corner, he's well able to adapt to playing off a big man and when he finds his form again he is lethal.
I've gone for Andy in the other corner simply because out of the other 13 outfielders I don't see a decent passer. Before he was sent off he was the only one capable of picking O'Se out with a good kick pass. I wouldn't play Andy in the corner as he doesn't score enough but he does create alot so he could play the roving role. He's not a back so I would get him out of there.
Ronaldson has had a fine league and is a handy player but I think Andy can do this job that bit better as he is a good deal stronger and has a similar appetite for work. I wouldn't pick Trevor to start, he would be a good impact sub but for every thing he does well there is a mistake (often costly) either side of it.
It's been a decent league all in all, we managed to stay up and we've found some answers to some of the questions (Caffs marshalling of Kavanagh yesterday was brillant to see for example!).
We could have a good summer, i.e. a Connacht and a good run after that IF this upward curve continues and we have a bit of luck. We would then be able for most teams 'on our day' and if Kerry have an off day we would even be able for them dare I say it. It's nice to have a bit of optimism going into the Summer, we need to focus on Ross and then if we get passed that our goal has to be a Connacht. The Summer will look after itself after that if a bit of momentum is built up.
looks like aidan o shea & barry moran could be forming 2/3 of our full forward line as i suggested 1o days ago.. seems to be gathering a bit of pace, imagine if we had ciaran mcdonald supplying them ball along with dillon. tasty
we have a lot of options now in the backs
Quote from: moysider on April 13, 2009, 11:39:00 PM
While I m pleased with a lot of what I ve seen this Spring I would nt be as optimistic as some. I think much of what has been positive has been due the individual form of some and the arrival of likes of Cafferkey, McLoughlin and O Sé on the senior scene. Their cv s have been loaded for years now anyway and its a relief only that they ve been as good as they have been. But overall I m not convinced we have a team that will perform in Championship. I m not sure at all we have a spine of a team.... or should I say a spine that will last. But at this stage 3,6,8,9,11, and 14 fairly settled but not necessarily our best options. Last 2 years we had a spine as well in Spring.
I attended 5 league games, Derry, Dublin, Wmeath, Galway and Tyrone. Only v Wmeath were we in control and comfortable. In the other 4 games we looked swamped at times but in fairness recovered well in the last 2. Worryingly with the aid of a good breeze in the last 3 games we struggled to close out the games we should have won and just got there in Tuam. Most worryingly Tyrone took charge of Sundays game in last 10 mins and created chance after chance from their own defence without a Mayo player landing a glove on them. It amounted to a collapse of sorts. From a position when we were 2 clear with a following wind.
The positives for me have been.
David Clarke.
Cafferkey and McLoughlin( though he looked like a tourist at times last day - stage fright I guess)
McGarrity( more of a hunch he s going to have a big year)
Harte and Parsons ( moves like Ferrari)
Dillon when he s been healthy.
O Sé obviously.
Negatives.
No proper freetaker.
Not enough 'dog' in the backs. If the new rules were left in place maybe we could go with them. No danger of anybody ever getting sent off. Not once the last day was any Tyrone runner stopped in his tracks. The runners were nt coming down the wings. They were coming down the middle.
Midfielders obsessed with high catching. This needs to stop and get proper ball winning strategies on our own kick- outs. Hughes broke all McGar ball ( not blaming McGar or Clarke, the culture has to change) the last day first half and Tyrone won the breaks. Parsons has to work when he does nt have the ball. In fact the whole team needs to learn how to track a runner.
We are shy forward options in the squad. We ll be very watery on the bench. Our forwards are Harte, Padden, Trevor, Andy maybe( all utility players to be honest)
Conor, O Sé, Dillon, Ronaldson, Barry Moran and Austin at a push. I know this sounds callous but cant see the sense of persisting with Kilcoyne or Mikey Sweeney(this year anyway)
Jason Doherty looks a better bet than Sweeney. He s a predator and hardy as well. I would have Freeman straight in as well as he is a proper wing man and knows his game.
Iffy bits.
Not convinced with Cuniffe at 6 or Trevor at 11. I counted five times v Tyrone when Trevor gave up the ball by either poor handling or poor passing in second half when we were in closing out the game territory. One kicked pass flew over the reciever s head by about 4 feet and over the sideline. Tyrone built and scored from the line ball. That cancels out his great point. Unforgivable in a close game. Rough but if we want to compete with the best we have to match their standards but not necessarily ape their style.
Ronaldson. He went from man of the match in Tuam to looking out of his depth against Philip Jordan. I dunno?
Peadar Gardiner does so many good things but shoots like a drunk. After landing 2 big ones in Tuam he was terrible against Tyrone. From 7 good attacking positions he made we got zilch return. Davy Harte got on the end of things twice and scored 2 points. Its differences like this that explain why 1 team wins silver and the other does not. So do we persist with Peadar or go with a player like Vaughan, McLoughlin( who can kick the football) or Cuniffe on the wing. Unfortunately we have not explored some possibilities in this league. Not blaming management because the U21 campaign was disruptive.
With the new rules probably binned for the championship we might be seen as easy meat for some. Our backs looked bullied in the Derry and Dublin games in particular. Our midfield are thoroughbreds in an area patrolled by warhorses. As I ve said already they re obsessed with trying to catch every ball.
There s not an awful lot wrong that selection and a bit of coaching would nt go a long way to fixing. We have to vary our game between our natural running game and using target men. Some of our attempts to hit O Sé the last day were a joke. We need a couple of players who can hit long early ball like Trevor Giles used to or attacking wing backs who can hit the big boys with accurate diagonal ball with a runner steaming in on support expecting an off-load. We have decent playing resources. The difference the last day was system, coaching and the belief/resolve that comes with success. How we do this year is in the lap of management and coaching. I think we re putting too much emphasis on who is picked where. I d like to see gameplan finetuned and workrate upped.
Other times v Tyrone we hit hopeful ball in with free men in support. This was the case yesterday when Caff got forward and had about 40 yards clear in front of him and instead of being given a 5 yard pass the ball was hoofed down the throat of a Tyrone back standing all on his own. Tyrone countered and cant remembered if they scored or not but its acedemic. We need to be much more clinical. Management could do worse than examine the Tyrone way. They hit the inside forwards early when it suits but when they need to get scores their default mode is a running possession game which in fairness they have developed to perfection. Its the gaelic equivalent of total football with everybody prepared to make a supporting run and make an extra man( Gormely s point) while everybody s prepared to funnel back and track runners as well. They offload to suppport at exactly the right time and passes go to hand. Basic stuff but we dont do it well. We try to beat players when it s not on, turn back, fling ( could nt call it a pass) the ball on the ground, ignore support etc, etc. Defensively the last day last quarter and inlast 10 first half we neither tracked our men or converged on the man in possession. Elbow grease needed here.
Unless the unthinkable happens we re likely to be meeting Galway in Salthill this year. In footballing terms I think we may be ahead of them at this stage. But we dont usually win there against them or anywhere else in recent years. Sammon will know as well that while Galway will play when they have the ball that he can up the ante on Mayo physically. The return of Colman will add more steel and with the likes of Blake and Burke there s plenty of iron behind the velvet. We have to be able to fight fire with fire this year. Not sure what team I would pick yet. I d like to see the form of the vets, Howley and K Higgins but I ll assume they re as good as they were last year and go with this 15. Some of it is about stirring debate but I m going to drop Conor on the grounds that he does nt seem interested in playing with a target man, laying ball off, has not been able to kick 45s and freesfrom distance, has daft shot selection and has been goal-shy for years.
Clarke
Aiden Higgins Cafferkey McLoughlin
Heaney Howley Keith Higgins
McGarrity Seamas Ó Sé
Harte Parsons Trevor
Aiden O Sé Barry Moran Alan Dillon
Dillon to play off the 2 big lads inside. Trevor to dig and unleash hell among the enemy all over the place. Parsons in the forwards until he gets a defensive side to his game and because we need a footballer at 11 and he s the best we have. Howley and Aiden Higgins to add bite to the defence. Seamas O Sé because we need an animal with hairy hoofs around the middle and he d better come through.
That's a wonderfully forensic piece of analysis from Moysider. There's lots to be happy about and plenty to worry about too. No shortage of turns in the road yet.
Moysider makes an interesting point about the backs. Most people have noted that Mayo aren't leaking goals like they used to, but the new rules, or enforcement of the old rules, or whatever you want to put it, has definitely been to Mayo's benefit. If things revert to being rougher, as they were before, will our lack of warhorses cost us? Will we have, in Seán Feeney's expressive phrase, too many "ladeens" who are liable to get pushed around?
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 14, 2009, 04:43:30 PM
That's a wonderfully forensic piece of analysis from Moysider. There's lots to be happy about and plenty to worry about too. No shortage of turns in the road yet.
Moysider makes an interesting point about the backs. Most people have noted that Mayo aren't leaking goals like they used to, but the new rules, or enforcement of the old rules, or whatever you want to put it, has definitely been to Mayo's benefit. If things revert to being rougher, as they were before, will our lack of warhorses cost us? Will we have, in Seán Feeney's expressive phrase, too many "ladeens" who are liable to get pushed around?
Claremorris' Willie Feeley has to take the credit for that one. You're right though Iolar, great review by Moysider. Moysider I'd go along with most of that. However I do think that David Clarke hasn't been a complete success. Clean sheets have been magnificent but, like Van Der Sar at United during their run, that's as much because of defence as actual saves he's had to make. I reckon his high, hanging kick outs are problematic and putting McGarrity and Harte under pressure (and making it easy for the Tyrones of this world to break ball all day). But he's still our number one 'keeper, don't get me wrong. But kick outs a definite issue.
I'd also be more happy with Cunniffe at centre-half back than Trevor at centre-half forward. Cunniffe has done well in a man marking job the last two games when asked to do that and not attack. He has what it takes. Trevor gives away too much ball however. I'd like to see the following team in championship:
Clarke;
O'Malley (just about), Caff, McLoughlin;
Gardiner, Cunniffe, Keith Higgins;
McGarrity, Parsons;
Harte, O'Shea, Trevor;
Conor, B Moran, Dillon.
Moran and O'Shea are interchangeable. I like Seamus O'Shea as a midfielder but he hasn't had enough game time to be in for championship. Liam O'Malley will be hanging on after the Tyrone game but I'd have him ahead of Nallen or Aidan Higgins unless either of the boys are 'flying' it in training. I reckon O'Shea's playmaking would be ideal at centre-half forward and that's a serious full-forward line and we've two men who can really get stuck in at wing-forward.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 14, 2009, 04:56:07 PM
Moysider I'd go along with most of that. However I do think that David Clarke hasn't been a complete success. Clean sheets have been magnificent but, like Van Der Sar at United during their run, that's as much because of defence as actual saves he's had to make. I reckon his high, hanging kick outs are problematic and putting McGarrity and Harte under pressure (and making it easy for the Tyrones of this world to break ball all day). But he's still our number one 'keeper, don't get me wrong. But kick outs a definite issue.
I would agree that the kick-outs are an issue. However I m not sure the blame lies solely with Clarky. More likely he s kicking out to instruction or has never been instructed to do otherwise. I doubt there is a better trainer about than David Clarke and he would soak up any instruction or coaching he gets. Its obvious he has worked hard on his game the last couple of years and has left an unfortunate and demoralising spell behind him. I think kick outs need to be worked on by the coaches, goalkeepers and the jumpers and others in the middle third. I noticed the last day Ronan stood with his hand in the air before our kick-outs, calling the ball on him. Clarke drove the ball towards him, and it hangs up and McGarrity seems to like them to as he s got great hang time himself. He expects to fetch them all but Hughes was able to jump through breaking the ball and Gardiner was usually nudged off the breaks. It seemed to me that this strategy was preplanned between Clarke and his captain and whether anybody else had an imput I would nt know. Not sure we have a goalkeeping coach either?
Of course we dont know what instructions are given, if any. We usually kick to the maximum distance possible and of course these will hang up. Ronan moved into position the last day at a distance that was at the outer limit of Clarke s range so the kicks were always going to hang. McGarrity s approach run to attack the kicks was only a few yards so Hughes was there with him every time.We could sacrifice distance for a flatter kick with space created for a jumper to run into like the Dubs used do with Ryan or dare I say it Donal Óg s specialities. These are the things that the coaching staff are paid to work out. The day when such matters are left up to the keeper to decide for himself are gone.
Quote from: kevmy on April 14, 2009, 11:05:26 AM
One think I don't get from most of the teams lining out here is why so many people are parachuting Heaney back into the team.
I was one of those who went with Heaney. Of course it s all acedemic and it s good craic. I think I did offer the caveat that I would pick him on the basis that his old form held up. We wont know until we know but management will have plenty of opportunity to make their minds up.
Other posters have suggested that while the return of the veterans is to be welcomed they dont see them as starters but rather as lads to bring in and settle the team late on - not to mention the fans. I m not so sure. I m firmly of the opinion that we handed Galway winning leads last 2 years by not having old hands and cool heads on the field at the start. Heaney was nt good last year v Galway but it was more to do with what he was trying to do( he should have focused on marking Joyce) than any deterioration in his physical abilities. My sympathies with Heaney down the years is that he has nt had an extended run in his best position - for me 5. He did a job at 3 for years when he was successive managements lazy option for full-back and he must be a frustrated man at this stage. The team was deprived a dynamic attacking force from deep as well. Remember his late frustrated run v Fermanagh in 2004. Definately a man we did nt utilise to his best ability in the past. That still can change.
I also believe that Aiden Higgins was our best defender last year. Keith catches the eye but Aiden is a backs' back and a goalkeepers back. I remember him as a skinny kid 10 years ago in an AI semi- final when we possibly had better options. Corner backs are often like the prop forwards from the old amateur days. Dont peak and not cute enough until in their thirties. No point being faster if you dont know when to run or what to chase.
Here's that piece I was on about on the 2004 Under 21s. Definitely not as potent a squad as 2006 . . .
http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/class-of-2006-more-bountiful-than-04/
Quote from: moysider on April 14, 2009, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 14, 2009, 04:56:07 PM
Moysider I'd go along with most of that. However I do think that David Clarke hasn't been a complete success. Clean sheets have been magnificent but, like Van Der Sar at United during their run, that's as much because of defence as actual saves he's had to make. I reckon his high, hanging kick outs are problematic and putting McGarrity and Harte under pressure (and making it easy for the Tyrones of this world to break ball all day). But he's still our number one 'keeper, don't get me wrong. But kick outs a definite issue.
I would agree that the kick-outs are an issue. However I m not sure the blame lies solely with Clarky. More likely he s kicking out to instruction or has never been instructed to do otherwise. I doubt there is a better trainer about than David Clarke and he would soak up any instruction or coaching he gets. Its obvious he has worked hard on his game the last couple of years and has left an unfortunate and demoralising spell behind him. I think kick outs need to be worked on by the coaches, goalkeepers and the jumpers and others in the middle third. I noticed the last day Ronan stood with his hand in the air before our kick-outs, calling the ball on him. Clarke drove the ball towards him, and it hangs up and McGarrity seems to like them to as he s got great hang time himself. He expects to fetch them all but Hughes was able to jump through breaking the ball and Gardiner was usually nudged off the breaks. It seemed to me that this strategy was preplanned between Clarke and his captain and whether anybody else had an imput I would nt know. Not sure we have a goalkeeping coach either?
Of course we dont know what instructions are given, if any. We usually kick to the maximum distance possible and of course these will hang up. Ronan moved into position the last day at a distance that was at the outer limit of Clarke s range so the kicks were always going to hang. McGarrity s approach run to attack the kicks was only a few yards so Hughes was there with him every time.We could sacrifice distance for a flatter kick with space created for a jumper to run into like the Dubs used do with Ryan or dare I say it Donal Óg s specialities. These are the things that the coaching staff are paid to work out. The day when such matters are left up to the keeper to decide for himself are gone.
Interesting analysis Moysider but I can't quite go along with it all. I agree - these type of things should be worked on in advance in a coherent way and I doubt they are. While I take your point about long kick outs hanging by their very nature, David Clarke's seem to do so more than most. I think that quite simply he gets way too much under the ball. I wonder is it because of the rugby boots he uses? It is possible to get a more even trajectory on even the long kicks. The wide range of kicking tees should allow a keeper to tailor to suit the need.
In the first half against Galway Mayo tried the very tactic you refer to - a la Cluxton kicking to Shane Ryan running into space. McGarrity or Harte would set off running from one wing to the other. Problem was the ball hung too much so that the midfielder found it hard to catch clean and Galway were able to break the ball. I wouldn't be too harsh because Cluxton's kick-outs are near perfect in terms of pace, trajectory and accuracy.
But I think that Kenneth O'Malley, for instance, can give a better trajectory kick out to his midfield. But, as I said initially, Clarke is still the number one for Mayo. The kick outs do need work and I hope management notice that, rather than just thinking everything is custy because of the amount of clean sheets - the type of flawed thinking that I wouldn't be surprised exists.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 15, 2009, 12:52:39 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 14, 2009, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 14, 2009, 04:56:07 PM
Moysider I'd go along with most of that. However I do think that David Clarke hasn't been a complete success. Clean sheets have been magnificent but, like Van Der Sar at United during their run, that's as much because of defence as actual saves he's had to make. I reckon his high, hanging kick outs are problematic and putting McGarrity and Harte under pressure (and making it easy for the Tyrones of this world to break ball all day). But he's still our number one 'keeper, don't get me wrong. But kick outs a definite issue.
I would agree that the kick-outs are an issue. However I m not sure the blame lies solely with Clarky. More likely he s kicking out to instruction or has never been instructed to do otherwise. I doubt there is a better trainer about than David Clarke and he would soak up any instruction or coaching he gets. Its obvious he has worked hard on his game the last couple of years and has left an unfortunate and demoralising spell behind him. I think kick outs need to be worked on by the coaches, goalkeepers and the jumpers and others in the middle third. I noticed the last day Ronan stood with his hand in the air before our kick-outs, calling the ball on him. Clarke drove the ball towards him, and it hangs up and McGarrity seems to like them to as he s got great hang time himself. He expects to fetch them all but Hughes was able to jump through breaking the ball and Gardiner was usually nudged off the breaks. It seemed to me that this strategy was preplanned between Clarke and his captain and whether anybody else had an imput I would nt know. Not sure we have a goalkeeping coach either?
Of course we dont know what instructions are given, if any. We usually kick to the maximum distance possible and of course these will hang up. Ronan moved into position the last day at a distance that was at the outer limit of Clarke s range so the kicks were always going to hang. McGarrity s approach run to attack the kicks was only a few yards so Hughes was there with him every time.We could sacrifice distance for a flatter kick with space created for a jumper to run into like the Dubs used do with Ryan or dare I say it Donal Óg s specialities. These are the things that the coaching staff are paid to work out. The day when such matters are left up to the keeper to decide for himself are gone.
Interesting analysis Moysider but I can't quite go along with it all. I agree - these type of things should be worked on in advance in a coherent way and I doubt they are. While I take your point about long kick outs hanging by their very nature, David Clarke's seem to do so more than most. I think that quite simply he gets way too much under the ball. I wonder is it because of the rugby boots he uses? It is possible to get a more even trajectory on even the long kicks. The wide range of kicking tees should allow a keeper to tailor to suit the need.
In the first half against Galway Mayo tried the very tactic you refer to - a la Cluxton kicking to Shane Ryan running into space. McGarrity or Harte would set off running from one wing to the other. Problem was the ball hung too much so that the midfielder found it hard to catch clean and Galway were able to break the ball. I wouldn't be too harsh because Cluxton's kick-outs are near perfect in terms of pace, trajectory and accuracy. But I think that Kenneth O'Malley, for instance, can give a better trajectory kick out to his midfield. But, as I said initially, Clarke is still the number one for Mayo. The kick outs do need work and I hope management notice that, rather than just thinking everything is custy because of the amount of clean sheets - the type of flawed thinking that I wouldn't be surprised exists.
True, true, but any driven ball into the wind will hang up. There was a big wind there and it made everybody look bad. Some people said Mayo improved after Harte was sent off, and how Parsons changed things. The reality for me was that the biggest player was the wind and Galway could nt handle it either. The alternative is try shorter stuff to wing backs and that puts them under pressure and team on back foot. Look what happened to Bradshaw when he was put under pressure deep in his own half. Maybe the boots are an issue. In Cluxton s case he uses these stabbed kicks in calm or with a following wind too which is a cinch. And they are rehearsed as well. Not sure we re doing the prep.
But as default mode I prefer goalkeepers go for distance and take our chances in the trenches and not get too clever near our own goals.
david clarke is a class goalie, come championship the wind will have died down and mcgarrity and whoever partners him will be plucking away.
Has become a real leader in the team
Quote from: moysider on April 15, 2009, 12:37:39 AM
Quote from: kevmy on April 14, 2009, 11:05:26 AM
One think I don't get from most of the teams lining out here is why so many people are parachuting Heaney back into the team.
I was one of those who went with Heaney. Of course it s all acedemic and it s good craic. I think I did offer the caveat that I would pick him on the basis that his old form held up. We wont know until we know but management will have plenty of opportunity to make their minds up.
Other posters have suggested that while the return of the veterans is to be welcomed they dont see them as starters but rather as lads to bring in and settle the team late on - not to mention the fans. I m not so sure. I m firmly of the opinion that we handed Galway winning leads last 2 years by not having old hands and cool heads on the field at the start. Heaney was nt good last year v Galway but it was more to do with what he was trying to do( he should have focused on marking Joyce) than any deterioration in his physical abilities. My sympathies with Heaney down the years is that he has nt had an extended run in his best position - for me 5. He did a job at 3 for years when he was successive managements lazy option for full-back and he must be a frustrated man at this stage. The team was deprived a dynamic attacking force from deep as well. Remember his late frustrated run v Fermanagh in 2004. Definately a man we did nt utilise to his best ability in the past. That still can change.
I also believe that Aiden Higgins was our best defender last year. Keith catches the eye but Aiden is a backs' back and a goalkeepers back. I remember him as a skinny kid 10 years ago in an AI semi- final when we possibly had better options. Corner backs are often like the prop forwards from the old amateur days. Dont peak and not cute enough until in their thirties. No point being faster if you dont know when to run or what to chase.
I'll agree with you on Aiden Higgins last year. And if we are looking at a corner back he is definitely in the mix. But as regards Heaney his best spot is no.5 as you say but we could probably field a whole team of half backs so the competition is very tight there. At the moment I couldn't see him taking a spot there having missed a lot of matches
Def positions are;
Clarke Cafferkey, K Higgins, P Gardiner, T Cunniffe, R McGarrity, T Mortimer, A Dillon, A O'Shea, T Parsons, C Mort
Probables:
P Harte, K McLoughlin, T Howley,
Possibles:
D heaney, J Nallen, A o'malley, M ronaldson, BJP, A Higgins, B Moran
What about Donal Vaughan, he is a strong physical defender imo and is well able to carry the ball out of defence if necessary. I'd be hoping to see him in action at some stage even as a sub during the Summer.
Heard word that Aidan Higgins has been dropped off the panel. Madness.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 16, 2009, 11:24:07 PM
Heard word that Aidan Higgins has been dropped off the panel. Madness.
When will the panel that's due to be picked by the management be unveiled to us anyway?? This f**king waiting and rumours does my head in.
This week, apparently.
seeing as every one is having a go.
some explanation may be required. Cunniffe and Caffekry had to go as the middle of the mayo defence has been like a sieve all winter . a central defender has to be judged on what his opponet does not how good they look on the ball. and heaney has too much class to ignore and NY would be a good game to ease howley and Keith back into affairs. I reckon iot always part of the plan in JOM being so generous with absentees!
it was a toss up between Mortimer and barry moran for corner forward but ive always thought 15 was trevors's best position, curbs his headless chicken routine and he plays very well with connor whos worth his weight in gold playing well.
Clarke
Liam o malley
David heaney
K Mcloughlin
P gardiner
Howley
K. Higgins
McGarrity
Parsons
Andy Moran
Alan dillon
Mark Ronalson
C.Mort
Aidan o se
t mort
I know im going to ruffle a few feathers but here it goes...
Firstly, are myself and Ros the only ones that think Dillon should be centre forward?
Against Tyrone Trevor was struggling again, some of his kick passing was fairly shocking. Dillon is needed at CF for his passing ability, play making and vision. Trev's work rate, energy and grafting is important so I would play him on the wing where he can run all day both at defences and tracking back, but there isnt much shape and balance with him at CF. Also the ball into O Shea and inside forwards might improve instead of the aimless kicking that went on against Tyrone.
Im leaving Liam O Malley in the full back line because I think that Gardiner left him isolated against Tyrone and that gave Penrose extra room to manouver and do damage. I would actually drop Gardiner, as I dont think is a a good defender. Our backs come under too much pressure when he plays out of position, and going forward he is not even that dangerous.
I would probably drop McGarity. I know he kicked 3 points the last day but up to that he was having a howler. He is not winning primary possession in the middle and I dont think he is up to it physically. He could make a good impact sub when legs are tiring.
I know I will get stick for it but im leaving Austy in the Full Forward line. All himself and Connor ever wanted was a target man to work off. Now they have one, and a fantastic prospect at that. Austy plays his best stuff getting the ball on the loop and popping it over the bar. He isnt the best ball winner, and neither is Connor but working off O Shea, they should do damage. Connor is someone that needs to step up to the mark this season, he has had a quiet league and was even dropped for a few games. Im not sure what is going on with him as he has lost form but he deserves a start for his experience.
Clarke
O Malley Cafferkey K Mcloughlin
Howley Cunniffe K Higgins (if fit)
Harte Parsons
Trev Mortimor Alan dillon Mark Ronalson
Conor Mortimor Aidan o Se A O Malley
I know the rationale for playing Dillon at centre-half forward but he was tried there before and didn't work too well. I reckon he does his best work at 12. Trevor will always give away a certain amount of ball, even if he is on the wing and not centre-half. And Dillon, if fully fit, will get on a power of ball regardless.
I can't see the logic behind dropping McGarrity. He was very good in the second half against Tyrone (generally, not just his three points) and he'd be my first midfielder on the team. I reckon we'll see a good summer from him.
Ros can't believe you are suggesting to drop Ger Cafferkey. He hasn't been completely flawless but its been an upward curve for him all through the league and the man has fitted in very well. Cunniffe too has looked good in the last few games when he's had to just concentrate on defending and not flying up the pitch. Heaney and Howley couldn't be expected to fill such central positions straight off anyway.
It will be interesting though to see how the full-forward line works out.
i dont know how people can doubt heaney. to think he needs a league capaign after 12 or so years as an inter county footballer is as insulting as CMcD's trial game last year. cafferkey is one for the future and worth hanging on too. id like to see him get some exposure to championship football this year but he has a long way to go.
I'm not doubting Heaney per se. But I will doubt him as a full-back. He was never the solution there, merely plugging a gap and we have a more natural full-back in Ger Caff. What I would worry about is Ger Caff starting at full-back with another debutant to his left - Kevin McLoughlin and Liam O'Malley on the other side. No real experience there. That's why I feel Aidan Higgins, if in form, would compliment Caff and McLoughlin. But JOM obviously thinks differently.
As for Heaney, he could well nail down a spot at wing-back - his best position, but it will depend on form and we've no way of judging that as of yet Ros.
I'm not in favour of wide-scale changes to the team to accomodate the five returning players. Higgins x 2, Howley, Heaney and Nallen all have had great days in the green and red but have yet to put a jersey on their back this year. Players thave not put in the hard winter graft get found out come championship and in particular in Croke Park.
As I see it the panel is going to be picked from the following:
GK Clarke, O'Malley, Hennelly
Backs O'Malley, Cafferkey, McLoughlin, Gardiner, Cunniffe, Andy Moran, Aidan Higgins, Keith Higgins, Howley, Heaney, Nallen, Vaughan, Barrett, Boyle
Midfield McGarrity Harte, Parsons, Seamus O'Shea
Forwards Ronaldson, Trevor, Conor, Dillon, Austie, O'Shea, BJP, Barry Moran, Mikey Sweeney, Ciaran Conroy, Barry Kelly, Kilcoyne
That is 33 players. 3 to go - I would guess Colm Boyle, possibly Barrett, Seamus O'Shea or Barry Kelly
One lad I think is not getting a fair deal is Kilcoyne. There is a problem here - whether it is him or the management I don't know but somebody needs to look at it carefully. He can take frees, is strong and speedy and should have got a fair run in the league.
I think it was moysider wrote about the constant turning over of possession by Gardiner being a major problem. On the days when he does this he causes more damage tha good. His talent is on the attack, never as a defender. I'm not a Liam O'Malley fan but maybe it is Gardiner that is exposing him? Vaughan is quite similar in this I think and it needs to be coached out of him.
My realistic championship starting XV: (JOM's likely choices, sprinkled with one or two of my own)
Clarke
Keith Higgins Cafferkey McLoughlin
Gardiner Cunniffe Andy Moran (Unless injuries or change in form I think Cafferkey and the half-back line all have their places nailed down. Higgins will come in somewhere, and realistically Liam O'Malley will probably be there instead of McLoughlin)
McGarrity Parsons
Harte Trevor Dillon (Trevor will be at 11. He played every minute of every league game there and this will not change)
Conor A O'Shea Austie (I reckon this will be the full forward line - I would play Kilcoyne instead of Austie but that will not happen). I presume Aidan O'Shea will not travel to NY and that it will be Barry Moran that will play there. I wonder what date he finishes the Leaving - if he picked his subject right he may get a week break before the Rossies/Leitrim)
Also too many of us antcipiate that the Ros will be coming to Castlebar. A M&M renewal with Mayo is not beyhond the bounds of possibility when the game is in Carrick!
I don't like Trevor at 11 Barney, but he probably will end up there come the championship no doubt. I don't rate him high enough as a playmaker but it's obvious JOM does.
Here'd be MY championship XV.
Clarke
K Higgins Cafferkey L OMalley
Cunniffe, Howley, Gardiner
McGarrity and Parsons
Trevor, Harte, Dillon
Conor, B Moran, A O Shea.
my guess is trevor is onlt at 11 because Dillion is carrying an injury all year . its not even a specific one whic is worrying. ive seen it described as hamstrin/back or was it Groin/back. they never seem to know till after togging out if hell play or not . sounds to me like he should gety it taken care of . he would be a massive loss to mayo as he is our classiest forward by Far.(new Messiah excluded)
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 17, 2009, 03:03:34 PM
I don't like Trevor at 11 Barney, but he probably will end up there come the championship no doubt. I don't rate him high enough as a playmaker but it's obvious JOM does.
Here'd be MY championship XV.
Clarke
K Higgins Cafferkey L OMalley
Cunniffe, Howley, Gardiner
McGarrity and Parsons
Trevor, Harte, Dillon
Conor, B Moran, A O Shea.
Switch the corner backs as they are left and right footed and maybe move the two big full forwards to the corners with Conor between them. But I'd be happy seeing that 15 alright Farrandeelin.
Mayo championship panel named:
http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/mayo-senior-panel-for-2009-named/
No mad surprises
I must say I'm surprised with Chris Barrett's inclusion. He doesn't seem comfortable on the ball in my opinion.
Since when did Keith Higgins start kicking with his left foot? He can barely kick with his stronger right foot. Never seen him attempting a left footed kick
Glad to see barry kelly and S o shea made the cut as they are the kind of ugly unspectacular players mayo are short of we need on of these for every white boot flash harry weve on the panel.
sad to see Mickey mullins go with out a run this year he was in the warm up against tyrone i thought he was on his way back. he showed great promise last year , he should have started to coming to his own this year. we lose 2 many players like this after 1 year or so getting very little chance remember a durcan colm lyons b regan pat casey b benson ad infiinitum not to mention the more controversial choices of thise i think durcan had most to give
QuoteCunniffe and Caffekry had to go as the middle of the mayo defence has been like a sieve all winter
No goals conceeded in our last 5 league games.
Were you at the Galway game ? indeed were you at any of those 5 games ?
Heres the squad (just so it's on the page)
Goalkeepers (2): David Clarke (Ballina), Kenneth O'Malley (Ballinrobe)
Backs (13): Chris Barrett (Belmullet), Ger Cafferkey (Ballina), Ciaran Conroy (Shrule/Glencorrib), Tom Cunniffe (Castlebar), Peadar Gardiner (Crossmolina), David Heaney (Swinford), Keith Higgins (Ballyhaunis), Trevor Howley (Knockmore), Kevin McLoughlin (Knockmore), Andy Moran (Ballaghaderreen), James Nallen (Crossmolina), Liam O'Malley (Burrishoole), Donal Vaughan (Ballinrobe).
Midfielders (4): Patrick Harte (Ballina), Ronan McGarrity (Ballina), Seamus O'Shea (Breaffy), Tom Parsons (Charlestown).
Forwards (11): Alan Dillon (Ballintubber), Barry Kelly (Ballaghaderreen), Aidan Kilcoyne (Knockmore), Barry Moran (Castlebar), Conor Mortimer (Shrule/Glenocorrib), Trevor Mortimer (Shrule/Glencorrib), Austin O'Malley (St Vincent's), Aidan O'Shea (Breaffy), Billy Joe Padden (Belmullet), Mark Ronaldson (Shrule/Glencorrib), Mikey Sweeney (Kiltane).
Only real argument most people will have would be Aiden Higgins not in. I'd be a fan of his but I haven't seen him play this year and we are a lot stronger in backs this year than others. Our problem could well lie in the forwards. I think the only other points are that Mikey Sweeney and Barry Kelly are there but realistically there isn't much other options, especially as regards lads who have played league this year.
Quote from: kevmy on April 20, 2009, 09:57:47 AM
Only real argument most people will have would be Aiden Higgins not in.
I'm still having trouble with Ciarán McDonald's continuing omission. Can't quite force myself to believe that all eleven of those forwards have more to contribute than he does.
The loss of players from underage to senior is another point of concern. Conroy and Campbell are the obvious losses. Will Kilcoyne be next? It's all very worrying.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 20, 2009, 10:32:45 AM
Quote from: kevmy on April 20, 2009, 09:57:47 AM
Only real argument most people will have would be Aiden Higgins not in.
I'm still having trouble with Ciarán McDonald's continuing omission. Can't quite force myself to believe that all eleven of those forwards have more to contribute than he does.
The loss of players from underage to senior is another point of concern. Conroy and Campbell are the obvious losses. Will Kilcoyne be next? It's all very worrying.
Fair enough.
But I think any who thinks Mac is going to come back is kidding themselves - I just can't see it happening.
I'd agree about Campbell but then he hasn't featured at any stage in the league so there really is no surprise there. I'd love to see him back in it again at some stage.
Not sure about Conroy though his form/interest in intercounty seems to have gone backwards rather than forwards and I don't think he could be included above any of the forwards named.
I don't think any of those three are coming back either Kevmy. I'm not sure if Campbell and Conroy have any issues of their own that they might have to address first, and that's up to themselves. Nobody has to do this, maybe they have other things in their lives, and that's all fair enough. Good luck to them.
McDonald is a different story. And again, I would ask the question why Johnno was willing to make this great effort for David Brady and not for McDonald.
Of course, the other question is how much of an effort was made to keep Brady going after 2006. That was only one year after Johnno was going to camp outside his house. I rated Brady; I know a lot didn't. I thought he added a warrior spirit. Hard to believe a man goes so quickly over the hill.
I see the same warrior spirit in Aidan O'Shea, actually. It was one of the few heartening aspects in Longford on Saturday. But looking at the bigger picture, it is a fact that Mayo do not utilise their player resources to their fullest extent, and haven't down through the years. Maybe it's time to start wondering why that is.
not sure where barry kelly fits in, billie joe can do that no.10 role where JOM was playing kelly. I'd even play david heaney at no.10 first.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 20, 2009, 12:16:25 PM
I don't think any of those three are coming back either Kevmy. I'm not sure if Campbell and Conroy have any issues of their own that they might have to address first, and that's up to themselves. Nobody has to do this, maybe they have other things in their lives, and that's all fair enough. Good luck to them.
McDonald is a different story. And again, I would ask the question why Johnno was willing to make this great effort for David Brady and not for McDonald.
Of course, the other question is how much of an effort was made to keep Brady going after 2006. That was only one year after Johnno was going to camp outside his house. I rated Brady; I know a lot didn't. I thought he added a warrior spirit. Hard to believe a man goes so quickly over the hill.
I see the same warrior spirit in Aidan O'Shea, actually. It was one of the few heartening aspects in Longford on Saturday. But looking at the bigger picture, it is a fact that Mayo do not utilise their player resources to their fullest extent, and haven't down through the years. Maybe it's time to start wondering why that is.
I'd agree with a lot of that but I'd like to believe we'll see Aidan Campbell again at some stage.
Mac is pretty much gone as far as togging out for Mayo is concerned I'd say. Even if he was asked back he's injured at the moment and would be unlikely get up to speed after returning.
Agree with you about Brady being a very good player and the warrior spirit but I'm not sure how much he had left in the tank. He had a lot of injuries down through the years and I couldn't have seen him play more than 35 mins at midfield.
Completely agree about O'Sé too me it's his work rate that sets him apart. He's a big lad but always gives it every thing there are a lot of players with his talent who don't.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 20, 2009, 10:32:45 AM
Quote from: kevmy on April 20, 2009, 09:57:47 AM
Only real argument most people will have would be Aiden Higgins not in.
I'm still having trouble with Ciarán McDonald's continuing omission. Can't quite force myself to believe that all eleven of those forwards have more to contribute than he does.
The loss of players from underage to senior is another point of concern. Conroy and Campbell are the obvious losses. Will Kilcoyne be next? It's all very worrying.
i'm having a bit of difficulty with mc s ommission as well however it seems to be a taboo subject here. peter canavan in his column in the star (can any one copy and paste it) thought that mayo wouldn't be that far away this year but that we needed one quality defender and forward and that o' mahony should be in contact with the blond and have him back (we all know that won't happen) . He is definately playing went to watch belmullett play crossmolina in a challenge yesterday and he looked in good shape definately not injured. Is Keith Higgins back from Oz yet ??
Oh well I heard he broke a bone in his foot a couple of weeks ago. He could have made a quick recovery I suppose
Keith was supposed to be back in April some stage so if he's not back already he won't be long
Quote from: kevmy on April 20, 2009, 03:09:24 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 20, 2009, 12:16:25 PM
I don't think any of those three are coming back either Kevmy. I'm not sure if Campbell and Conroy have any issues of their own that they might have to address first, and that's up to themselves. Nobody has to do this, maybe they have other things in their lives, and that's all fair enough. Good luck to them.
McDonald is a different story. And again, I would ask the question why Johnno was willing to make this great effort for David Brady and not for McDonald.
Of course, the other question is how much of an effort was made to keep Brady going after 2006. That was only one year after Johnno was going to camp outside his house. I rated Brady; I know a lot didn't. I thought he added a warrior spirit. Hard to believe a man goes so quickly over the hill.
I see the same warrior spirit in Aidan O'Shea, actually. It was one of the few heartening aspects in Longford on Saturday. But looking at the bigger picture, it is a fact that Mayo do not utilise their player resources to their fullest extent, and haven't down through the years. Maybe it's time to start wondering why that is.
I'd agree with a lot of that but I'd like to believe we'll see Aidan Campbell again at some stage.
Mac is pretty much gone as far as togging out for Mayo is concerned I'd say. Even if he was asked back he's injured at the moment and would be unlikely get up to speed after returning.
Agree with you about Brady being a very good player and the warrior spirit but I'm not sure how much he had left in the tank. He had a lot of injuries down through the years and I couldn't have seen him play more than 35 mins at midfield.
Completely agree about O'Sé too me it's his work rate that sets him apart. He's a big lad but always gives it every thing there are a lot of players with his talent who don't.
Mcdonald now brady?what nxt a campaign tpo bring Mcha;e back. he still pretty fit looking. anf you know Fat larry has got quiet abit thinnner or at least not any fatter
I think we just have to except the good guys lost the argument on Mcdonald and support what we have.
esp now the new messiah is here
David Brady retired because of recurring injuries. He stopped playing football at any level, there was no question of him ever making himself available again, hence the reason why JOM didn't make more of an effort in trying to coax him back.
Mac is a different kettle of fish, but I'd (again) question the wisdom of bringing back someone of that age who's last inter county game was 2006.
Liam McHale and Anthony Finnerty's omission is nothing short of a disgrace and this all goes back to them stealing Sean Feeney's sandwiches after a Connacht Championship match in 1989
Quote from: stephenite on April 23, 2009, 08:20:26 AM
David Brady retired because of recurring injuries. He stopped playing football at any level, there was no question of him ever making himself available again, hence the reason why JOM didn't make more of an effort in trying to coax him back.
Mac is a different kettle of fish, but I'd (again) question the wisdom of bringing back someone of that age who's last inter county game was 2006.
Liam McHale and Anthony Finnerty's omission is nothing short of a disgrace and this all goes back to them stealing Sean Feeney's sandwiches after a Connacht Championship match in 1989
True but I'd say Larry ate most of them!!
Maughan stirs the McDonald pot - http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/11395
I've picked an alternative Mayo xv for my blog if anyone wants a gander - http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.wordpress.com/
Nice work The Flame still burns, interesting selection. Maughan's piece in the advertiser is basically what most of us are thinking and also has the double effect of getting him cosy with McDonald for Cross. IMHO he goes easy on O'Mahony where he could cut loose a lot more, my recollection of Maughan's last tenure was not of O'Mahony sparing him in the media.
Quote from: dodo on April 25, 2009, 12:34:33 AM
Nice work The Flame still burns, interesting selection. Maughan's piece in the advertiser is basically what most of us are thinking and also has the double effect of getting him cosy with McDonald for Cross. IMHO he goes easy on O'Mahony where he could cut loose a lot more, my recollection of Maughan's last tenure was not of O'Mahony sparing him in the media.
Very true dodo . what annoys me about the whole Mc D saga is not the fact that o' mahony has not picked him ( thats his choice as manager ) its just they way he got rid of him .It was plain to see in 2007 that he had no intention of using mc again sure he must have brought on
5 subs before he brought him on that day against derry. He should have just came out and stated that he wasn't in his plans end of story never mind all this nonsense of texting him to attemd a trial. Jimmy Nallen and David heaney weren't asked to attend a trial this year ,they were asked to attend a intercounty challenge match against Offally after the league campaign was over . if i recall Mcs interview all he wanted was to be told to his face where he stood, after giving so many years to mayo thats the least he deserved .
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 25, 2009, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: dodo on April 25, 2009, 12:34:33 AM
Nice work The Flame still burns, interesting selection. Maughan's piece in the advertiser is basically what most of us are thinking and also has the double effect of getting him cosy with McDonald for Cross. IMHO he goes easy on O'Mahony where he could cut loose a lot more, my recollection of Maughan's last tenure was not of O'Mahony sparing him in the media.
Very true dodo . what annoys me about the whole Mc D saga is not the fact that o' mahony has not picked him ( thats his choice as manager ) its just they way he got rid of him .It was plain to see in 2007 that he had no intention of using mc again sure he must have brought on 5 subs before he brought him on that day against derry. He should have just came out and stated that he wasn't in his plans end of story never mind all this nonsense of texting him to attemd a trial. Jimmy Nallen and David heaney weren't asked to attend a trial this year ,they were asked to attend a intercounty challenge match against Offally after the league campaign was over . if i recall Mcs interview all he wanted was to be told to his face where he stood, after giving so many years to mayo thats the least he deserved .
Maybe McDonald didn't give him a no 1 preference in the elections in 2007. :o
Quote from: small white mayoman on April 25, 2009, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: dodo on April 25, 2009, 12:34:33 AM
Nice work The Flame still burns, interesting selection. Maughan's piece in the advertiser is basically what most of us are thinking and also has the double effect of getting him cosy with McDonald for Cross. IMHO he goes easy on O'Mahony where he could cut loose a lot more, my recollection of Maughan's last tenure was not of O'Mahony sparing him in the media.
Very true dodo . what annoys me about the whole Mc D saga is not the fact that o' mahony has not picked him ( thats his choice as manager ) its just they way he got rid of him .It was plain to see in 2007 that he had no intention of using mc again sure he must have brought on 5 subs before he brought him on that day against derry. He should have just came out and stated that he wasn't in his plans end of story never mind all this nonsense of texting him to attemd a trial. Jimmy Nallen and David heaney weren't asked to attend a trial this year ,they were asked to attend a intercounty challenge match against Offally after the league campaign was over . if i recall Mcs interview all he wanted was to be told to his face where he stood, after giving so many years to mayo thats the least he deserved .
You are spot on, I think.
I haven't come across a better analysis of the whole sorry saga.
Yes, it was O'Mahony's right to select his panel and his right alone but rights bring responsibilities with them and the Messiah could have acted in a more straightforward and competent manner. He should have left nobody in any doubt regarding Mac's future place in his plans.
I think there is no point at this stage in looking back but the fact is that the row still rumbles on, much to the detriment of Mayo football. Any assessment of O'Mahony's achievements will always be prefaced by the words, "If only.."
Of course, I genuinely wish him and the team he manages the very best of luck. I hope he manages to prove me to be as clueless as I reckon he is. ;D
BTW, on a slightly different note, has anyone heard any mention of the championship panel being closed off by a given date this year?
If fact, I have not heard of any other county doing this either last year or this one.
I'd go further and say that the only manager that even mentioned closing off his panel was our fella when he announced his own squad and broke the news that Mac had decided not to come back. A decision he seemingly reversed the day after Mac's interview with the Indo when O'Mahony said Ciaran could play himself back into the plans if his club form warranted it and so could any other player in the county.
Riddle that out for me if you can.
This year, things seem better on the team development front and it looks like we will be more organised than we were last year or the previous one. That's a welcome development — if it proves true.
All I could ask for is that the team plays to its potential and that the manager does his best to bring this about.
Sadly, given what has gone before, I'm looking forward to the summer more in hope than in anticipation.
But I could be wrong: C'mon Mayo!!