Anyone here a secondary School Teacher. Thinking about applying for a h.dip. Must be a better life than working 9-5 for a computer firm.
Heya Jack
A good profession, worthy of more respect than it gets these days, from management, kids, parents or government.
All I'd say is go in with your eyes open. I went in for teaching wanting quite simply to teach. In my eyes that was imparting knowledge that was interesting, useful, and accessible to kids.
Unfortunately, imparting knowledge for the improvement of the child, to give a little kowledge and to increase their desire to learn(which is the best expression I can think of to sum up what I wanted to do, even though it sounds silly) is a minor part of the job. Paperwork, teaching to the test, and discipline are the major part of the job. All three took the heart out of me so make sure you're tough, without preconcieved notions which arent accurate in todays world, organised, and can manage little people - harder in my opinion than managing adults, though possibly not as ignorant as adults sometimes. The worst part of the job is low level misbehaviour - not the kid whos climbing the curtains, thats grand you can deal with that, but the kid who constantly constantly constantly undermines your authority in minor ways, too small to punish harshly, but so constant that it is wearing. That was the worst.
My best advice would be to try a little sub teaching or classroom assistant for even a short time, just to make sure its for you. if it is, go for it and good luck.
No specific advice I can give on the Hdip as that wasnt my route.
Some good stuff there Daffy. Cheers
I always thought you were a Primary School teacher daffey.
Teaching is not for everybody. If you don't have the right type of personality, schoolkids will walk all over you. Definitely try it out before you make any type of commitment.
I've just started the hDip equivalent over in England here and I would have to agree with what daffey says. It's still very early doors for me but it would seem that all the notions o bettering children's lives have been lost in the endless statistical analysis of pupils previous grades and what they should achieve and why haven't you gotten this student such a grade and so on.
As for the low level misbehaviour!! God I couldn't agree more, I'm taking a 3rd year class at the moment (15 yr olds) and while all the children are nice I just cannot get them to shut up and spend most of my time shouting over them. I'm still new to all the techniques that you can use to counteract this but at the minute they're impossible.... oh and you should try teaching a class after dinnertime, they all eat about 10 bags of skittles beforehand and go up the walls!!!
Anyway I'm getting sidetracked here, after I struggled for a few lessons my heart went out of it a bit but one good lesson last week has got me motivated again and helped me realise it's what I want to do so I'd say the best thing for you to do is get a bit of experience and see if it's what you want. Good luck!
Well applicants have to be in by December. Cant really afford to chuck current job and get some practice in and then not get a spot on a course next Sept.
Teaching is definitely not for everybody, J70 is quite right. But then you can be well suited in many ways and have difficulty in one area and it messes things up. I was good at teaching, when I got to teach, my downfall was discipline. I had a tough school with some behavioural problems and that probably wasnt a good start, put me off for life I fear! But then, a stronger person might have kept going and got on top of all that and held sway over the class. Certainly no compliment to me that I couldnt handle it. Looking back I went in assuming kids couldnt be that bad, unfortunately, they can be, and I wasnt hard headed enough to deal with that.
It was secondary English Farrandeelin, in a high school out near bangor. With media studies, computing (??) and a few other subjects thrown in for good measure.
And yes, classes after break and lunch are madness, all high on colours and E numbers, add those lovely ingredients to a few kids with ADHD who wont take their medication and you have an interesting time.
A good lesson bouys you up, thats true, I miss that, but I have no regrets.
Another point to mention is that there were 17,500 applicants for 1100 teaching jobs. Getting started and getting a permanant post isn't that easy.
I'm married to a school teacher. It does have its benefits. If I dont do it just right, she makes me do it again and again and again until its perfect ;)
Well hopefully in 2 years time I will have my own classroom, as I'm studying to be a Primary teacher now. :)
Farrandeelin, best of luck to you. I was too late to apply for the primary course but would have preferred it, looking back I should have waited a year and gone for it, but sure I'm happy enough doing what I'm doing these days.
Good point about jobs. Most of my classmates from the pgce course are out of work, temping, getting a day subbing here or there, working at something else, or gone to England. Very few jobs here. Some of them are still applying and going for interviews and we graduated a few years ago. I think you need to get into a school as a sub or a temp and excel at your work, then when they advertise you're earmarked.
Jack, I'd still really try to get experience of some sort somehow, even if its taking a day off work here and there to sit in on classes or something, many teachers would be happy to help you out.
Phew! Just out of the afternoon class that I have there and by god it went soooo much better.
Just wanted to say that you should probably think about applying to teaching in England Jack as I think it will be able to equip you better for coming home. I've spoken to a lot of people about moving home but the job scene is mental. My own theory is that lads want to play GAA professionally but need some way of supporting themselves but see Teaching as the best way to do it. Is it any wonder why St. Mary's teaching College have a strong Sigerson team with such a smaller pick than the other Universities.
Anyway back to my main point. I think the way to do it is to get your PGCE over here (With your educational grant), and then apply to jobs at home and in England. If you don't get one at home then work in England building up your CV and you'll get something eventually. That's what I plan on doing anyway as I don't fancy hanging around here for the rest of my life!!!
The only problem I can see with that is that most jobs at home are pretty much already decided and interviews are just a formality. I've heard of situations where headmasters have taken the CV of a particular sub teacher they liked and devised an advertisement and job description to get her in! THe teaching game is a lot about who you know IMO.
Jack,
I did the H Dip many moons ago. Some of the following might be useful.
Have you got a school sorted for your teaching practice? Some schools are known for giving H Dip's a chance and even for giving a few quid for extra hours.
You learn far more from other teachers in the staffroom than you will from the theory in the lecture theatre. Teachers will give you a dig out with tips etc
Discipline is the key. If you can't run a tight ship (no smiling till after Christmas) then forget about it. Again a supportive school will help you to grow into that.
Whatever you say in class be prepared to follow through with it - otherwise don't say it.
What subjects do you plan to teach? Some subject teachers are far more in demand than others.
Be prepared to put in the long graft at subbing and temping before any permanent post comes your way. That can be demoralising.
Best of luck!
I have a bit of experience of teaching in different schools and countries and have found that a supportive staff is essential. Supply teaching will help you work out the schools with good SMT and happy staffrooms. Teaching can be stressful but after 25 years at it I think its the best job in the world.
When you get into the school, show willing, get involved in extra curricular activities and talk to the pupils, get to know them as individuals. This pays off as the people who give out the jobs pick up on the extra you give. Very few Principals appoint teachers they don't know, there's too much at stake. It's young people's education and future life that you are affecting.
Personally I believe that its about relationships more than having a first in your degree. if you don't enjoy children, teaching is not the job for you.
Finally flexibility is the name of the game as subject boundaries are being dissolved and if you have two or three subjects then you will be more employable than the single subject person, that is unless you have physics or maths as your subject!
Good luck
Did Math & Stats in University. Finished 3 years. Applications as I said due in next month with no word arriving regarding success until April. No much pt thinking about getting a school sorted yet I would have thought. June, July and August lads, those months must be good ???
If you think you have it in you, Jack, go for it. There is no better feeling than doing something you love, and the good days by far outnumber the the bad days. As someone else experienced, I had the benefit of teaching in England initially. Inner-city Birmingham (Handsworth) was a tough baptism and I haven't experienced such trials and tribulations since. I've also had a 18-month stint in a Primary School but didn't think that age suited my interests. All-in-all, this is my 10th year behind the desk and provided you stick to what you want to do in teaching and not take on extra responsibility for solely prestige reasons, you'll enjoy it. Although you think it's better than a 9-5 job, you'll find out it's actually an 8-8 job. Don't forget you take your work home with you and will spend much of Sunday preparing as well. The Summer, Christmas and Easter holidays are very welcome.
In terms of discipline, you'll find your own methods. Some teachers shout, some are silent and both can work for different teachers. It's not a glamorous job and the pressure from those in authority as well as parents can sometimes leave you feeling disillusioned. Coping with this is the key. But sure that's the same in any walk of life.
One other fact to remember, is that teachers need to know how to behave when outside of school, and at school formals etc etc etc. They are role models 24 x 7.
If you want to dance on tables with your colleagues then you are better off in the private sector.
Both my folks were secondary school teachers (plus my aunt, uncle and big sister). Both stayed for almost their whole careers in the same school as they started in. They both took early retirement a few years ago, and at the time my mum was a VP. At the end, I think it was like Daffey mentioned earlier - if it was just about the teaching, there'd have been no problem. It was the other stuff, the going to court to defend the school against a civil action taken by a pupil, the abuse from parents etc etc that accounted for lost enthusiasm. On the other hand, we were well looked after during the summer, had maths and history tutoring on tap, and my dad was allowed to take time out to do two masters degrees. So the benefits were pretty good. The worst thing was having your dad be head of discipline at the local boys' secondary school - horrible for a teenage girl ;)
Good luck with it - it definately isn't for everyone. Despite not knowing anything else while growing up, I wouldn't have the temperament for it.
Quote from: screenexile on November 13, 2006, 10:59:33 PM
I've just started the hDip equivalent over in England
They believed the guff you wrote in that personal statement of yours then?
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 14, 2006, 11:56:18 PM
BTW Ciaran where did you get this statistic........
QuoteAnother point to mention is that there were 17,500 applicants for 1100 teaching jobs. Getting started and getting a permanant post isn't that easy.
In N.Ireland, we have a shortage of teachers in many fields. It is quite difficult to recruit and retain good teachers in a whole range of subjects in secondary schools. We don't have 17,500 teachers in N.ireland who are currently seeking a job!
I think the quote should read 17,500 applications, rather than applicants.
O'Neill has it spot on, don't teach looking for glory. Once you realise there will always be those who don't share your thirst for knowledge or who don't appreciate what you're trying to do you'll be okay. Learn not to take anything personally and you'll love it. As long as the wee feckers keep you off ratemyteachers that is.
The worst thing about teaching is that this board is banned on the C2K network. Surely a man in TYP's position (or indeed our other principal) could sort something out for us. Either that or I'll tell Fearon that no soccer, rugby, hockey et al. boards are banned and he can play the sectarian card.
PS JAck, best of luck with it. Give it a lash anyway and see how things go.
I reckon one thing to bear in mind is that at least in N.Ireland, the school-age population is dropping. Many of the schools are seeing falling numbers, especially secondarys and small primaries. A number of amalgamations have taken place over the last few years in Strabane, Omagh, Dungannon and Enniskillen in response to this with the end result being fewer teaching places. Some of this has been absorbed by more experienced teachers taking early retirement by for some younger ones starting out, its getting tough landing a permanent post.
Quote from: ONeill on November 14, 2006, 09:04:27 PM
If you think you have it in you, Jack, go for it. There is no better feeling than doing something you love, and the good days by far outnumber the the bad days. As someone else experienced, I had the benefit of teaching in England initially. Inner-city Birmingham (Handsworth) was a tough baptism and I haven't experienced such trials and tribulations since. I've also had a 18-month stint in a Primary School but didn't think that age suited my interests. All-in-all, this is my 10th year behind the desk and provided you stick to what you want to do in teaching and not take on extra responsibility for solely prestige reasons, you'll enjoy it. Although you think it's better than a 9-5 job, you'll find out it's actually an 8-8 job. Don't forget you take your work home with you and will spend much of Sunday preparing as well. The Summer, Christmas and Easter holidays are very welcome.
In terms of discipline, you'll find your own methods. Some teachers shout, some are silent and both can work for different teachers. It's not a glamorous job and the pressure from those in authority as well as parents can sometimes leave you feeling disillusioned. Coping with this is the key. But sure that's the same in any walk of life.
Who has recently been appointed "Teacher in charge of Media Studies, Journalism and Moving Images" at ONeill's school?
Hopefully O'Neill, sounds like a good job for a failed journalist.
I take it that congratulations are in order. Another extrapolation might be that with the extra responsibility there will be less posting here.
As a matter of interest, are there any inspections coming up in Belfast soon?
I really think ya need to have a real desire to be a teacher. Too many people get into it because they get to the end of their degree without knowing what they want to do and see the PGCE as a default choice. Both my parents were teachers and ended up taking early retirement so I suppose I'm a bit biased against it but I caution anybody before taking the teacher route.
Good aul holidays though and you're home by 4 in the evening.
Quote from: john mcgill on January 17, 2008, 09:11:49 PM
As a matter of interest, are there any inspections coming up in Belfast soon?
Sounds like you know the answer. On the off-chance that you don't, I would say, hopefully not.
If only all your colleagues were like this........
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article3200752.ece
Quote from: john mcgill on January 17, 2008, 09:11:49 PM
As a matter of interest, are there any inspections coming up in Belfast soon?
Well, there's one coming up in a school in south Derry hi. Wanna make something of it?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 17, 2008, 08:58:27 PM
Quote from: ONeill on November 14, 2006, 09:04:27 PM
If you think you have it in you, Jack, go for it. There is no better feeling than doing something you love, and the good days by far outnumber the the bad days. As someone else experienced, I had the benefit of teaching in England initially. Inner-city Birmingham (Handsworth) was a tough baptism and I haven't experienced such trials and tribulations since. I've also had a 18-month stint in a Primary School but didn't think that age suited my interests. All-in-all, this is my 10th year behind the desk and provided you stick to what you want to do in teaching and not take on extra responsibility for solely prestige reasons, you'll enjoy it. Although you think it's better than a 9-5 job, you'll find out it's actually an 8-8 job. Don't forget you take your work home with you and will spend much of Sunday preparing as well. The Summer, Christmas and Easter holidays are very welcome.
In terms of discipline, you'll find your own methods. Some teachers shout, some are silent and both can work for different teachers. It's not a glamorous job and the pressure from those in authority as well as parents can sometimes leave you feeling disillusioned. Coping with this is the key. But sure that's the same in any walk of life.
Who has recently been appointed "Teacher in charge of Media Studies, Journalism and Moving Images" at ONeill's school?
SS, how do you remember threads from over a year ago?
Some specific quotations always stick out and are filed away in the memory for future use. I knew that ONeill had said sometime in the past that he had absolutely no interest in promotion. When I heard about his recent promotion, I used the search facility to hoke out the closest quote to back up my point.
SBE Mac's quote about not being ready to go to a GAA game (sic) was a much, much older post.
You have posted nothing that I will bring back to haunt you.
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2008, 09:10:10 PM
What the feck is Moving Images?
As long as it's nothing to do with IT, he's been trying to type something for the last 10 minutes.
I need the money to pay the wife. Suffice to say I sat no interview. Sometimes greatness is bestowed upon oneself.
Tis great being in charge of yerself though. Next stop, Head of Computer Studies. It does the work for you.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 17, 2008, 09:54:40 PM
As long as it's nothing to do with IT, he's been trying to type something for the last 10 minutes.
Definition of sad and/or OCD: Logging onto an internet discussion site, making your movements invisible to others and then watching how and when someone else posts. Set Balls Grow A.
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2008, 09:56:18 PM
I think it could be films. Fancy name, eh?
It's looking out the window and watching things move. Some days nothing moves in Edenmore. You'd maybe get the oul retiree zooming past to get his pension.
Quote from: ONeill on January 17, 2008, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 17, 2008, 09:54:40 PM
As long as it's nothing to do with IT, he's been trying to type something for the last 10 minutes.
Definition of sad and/or OCD: Logging onto an internet discussion site, making your movements invisible to others and then watching how and when someone else posts. Set Balls Grow A.
:D
Quote from: ONeill on January 17, 2008, 09:55:38 PM
I need the money to pay the wife. Suffice to say I sat no interview. Sometimes greatness is bestowed upon oneself.
Tis great being in charge of yerself though. Next stop, Head of Computer Studies. It does the work for you.
An excellent idea - look where it got TYP.
Although the teachers on the board dont mark much coursework, when you do, do ye lot get much of this?
Would you pull the pupil about it or let it go?
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7194772.stm
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 18, 2008, 10:00:30 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 18, 2008, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: ONeill on January 17, 2008, 09:55:38 PM
I need the money to pay the wife. Suffice to say I sat no interview. Sometimes greatness is bestowed upon oneself.
Tis great being in charge of yerself though. Next stop, Head of Computer Studies. It does the work for you.
An excellent idea - look where it got TYP.
Only I have never been a head of any department, only the best ever get to be Head of Computing/ICT!
Sorry, I thought you were. You're obviously spoilt with Mrs McLaughlin.