At the risk of sounding contradictory I'm just interested to here peoples views on this? 3 pages dedicated to him in today's indo and the weekend's papers all have a full report.
I think it was the late late Micko was on last year and came across as liking the limelight. After this w/end i think this is all the man is after. The final whistle had just blown on Saturday and Micko was ready for an interview from Setanta.
Maybe its just the time of year and the journo's have to fill pages?
No offence to Wicklow supporters hope ye do well this year, hope the hype doesn't end in disaster that's all.
Quote from: highorlow on January 08, 2007, 03:20:59 PM
At the risk of sounding contradictory I'm just interested to here peoples views on this? 3 pages dedicated to him in today's indo and the weekend's papers all have a full report.
I think it was the late late Micko was on last year and came across as liking the limelight. After this w/end i think this is all the man is after. The final whistle had just blown on Saturday and Micko was ready for an interview from Setanta.
Maybe its just the time of year and the journo's have to fill pages?
No offence to Wicklow supporters hope ye do well this year, hope the hype doesn't end in disaster that's all.
Usual ass kissing shit from the indo. Micko should have quit when cork gobbed them in 87. He had his day.
In fairness Micko is a great manager he brought Laois from getting beat by 12 points by Meath in the qualifiers one year to winning Leinster the next..
Right some might say thats all he did..yeah we lost 2 more finals and only got as far as All Ireland 1/4 in the four years he was with us but if it hadn't been for him we still would be a lowly team instead of one of the country's top 5/6
With Laois though as with Wicklow now there was an awful amount of hype and after the inital honeymoon period i don't think the hype was good for the players and i think he stayed a year or two too long with Laois
For instance you would be hard pressed to find anything about Laois in the papers at the moment and i think that is better for the team right now
As for Wicklow i think the hype can only do them good as it will build their confidence and isn't it good they are in the papers for the right reasons ie winning rather than the usual shite we hear about fighting and players not wanting to play etc etc and i for one hope to hear more from Wicklow as Leinster needs it, I sincerly hope they do well this year
It'll be interesting to see how Laois get on this year without him.
Quote from: tayto on January 08, 2007, 03:34:18 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Laois get on this year without him.
Unless they spend the winter lifting weights i'd predict a run in the powder puff Leinster championship and then a spanking when they meet anyone half decent. Good talent there but lightweight.
Laois will do well this year.
Quote from: man in black on January 08, 2007, 03:37:12 PM
Quote from: tayto on January 08, 2007, 03:34:18 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Laois get on this year without him.
Unless they spend the winter lifting weights i'd predict a run in the powder puff Leinster championship and then a spanking when they meet anyone half decent. Good talent there but lightweight.
Hard to disagree with ya MIB about Laois being lightweight and from what i know the weight trainning has been on going since november,but it's not Laois's fault they are in the Leinster Championship either and i for one would be happy if they won that
And as for getting a spanking? was this the same spanking Tyrone and Mayo were going to give them last year coz the only one who beat them by a big margin in last years championship were Dublin who are a Leinster team
Mayo were lucky to get away with it the first day and they hardly demolished us in the replay
Quote from: laoislad on January 08, 2007, 03:57:36 PM
Quote from: man in black on January 08, 2007, 03:37:12 PM
Quote from: tayto on January 08, 2007, 03:34:18 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Laois get on this year without him.
Unless they spend the winter lifting weights i'd predict a run in the powder puff Leinster championship and then a spanking when they meet anyone half decent. Good talent there but lightweight.
Hard to disagree with ya MIB about Laois being lightweight and from what i know the weight trainning has been on going since november,but it's not Laois's fault they are in the Leinster Championship either and i for one would be happy if they won that
And as for getting a spanking? was this the same spanking Tyrone and Mayo were going to give them last year coz the only one who beat them by a big margin in last years championship were Dublin who are a Leinster team
Mayo were lucky to get away with it the first day and they hardly demolished us in the replay
You and i both know that the Tyrone team you beat was not at full strength (not laois fault i know), and as for mayo well we know how good they are. Laois are probably 8-10 points a game behind any serious all-ireland contender.
QuoteUsual ass kissing shit from the indo. Micko should have quit when cork gobbed them in 87. He had his day.
QuoteUnless they spend the winter lifting weights i'd predict a run in the powder puff Leinster championship and then a spanking when they meet anyone half decent. Good talent there but lightweight
QuoteYou and i both know that the Tyrone team you beat was not at full strength (not laois fault i know), and as for mayo well we know how good they are. Laois are probably 8-10 points a game behind any serious all-ireland contender.
Another mouthy Tyrone fan. Brilliant. I was almost getting bored with the recent lack of bombast from the red hands.
With the greatest of respect to the man the press coverage he's getting at this stage is totally out of proportion and a wee bit patronising. I totally admire his enthusiam not just for football but for life in general and I understand how he would be a great motivator in the dressingroom but the amount of credit he gets is just rooted in lazy journalism.
His record as a player is phenomenal in terms of achievement and longetivity (still playing senior club at 48!). Obviously his management cv (the Kerry part) is also impressive but it must be put in some sort of perspective regarding both the quality of players at his disposal and the opposition he faced. With Kildare he won 2 Leinsters in two long spells that very few modern managers would be allowed have. I'm amazed that a Laois contributor is content with the silverware that he gained for them. After winning a series of minor and u-21 titles one senior Leinster is a very poor return.
I think there are similarities between himself and Paudi. Both men undoubtedly have genuine credibility as players and managers. But sadly now both have become media legends who like the limelight and give good copy and are plying their trade with counties that have little or no chance of success. I would think both of them would much prefer to be managing their native green and gold. But there is now a world of difference between them and the low profile, efficient modern manner in which the likes of the excellent Jack O'Connor steered the Kerry ship these last few seasons. Roll on the spring and summer when journalists get some meaningful material to write about.
page filler
Quote from: ross matt on January 08, 2007, 08:43:29 PM
With the greatest of respect to the man the press coverage he's getting at this stage is totally out of proportion and a wee bit patronising. I totally admire his enthusiam not just for football but for life in general and I understand how he would be a great motivator in the dressingroom but the amount of credit he gets is just rooted in lazy journalism.
His record as a player is phenomenal in terms of achievement and longetivity (still playing senior club at 48!). Obviously his management cv (the Kerry part) is also impressive but it must be put in some sort of perspective regarding both the quality of players at his disposal and the opposition he faced. With Kildare he won 2 Leinsters in two long spells that very few modern managers would be allowed have. I'm amazed that a Laois contributor is content with the silverware that he gained for them. After winning a series of minor and u-21 titles one senior Leinster is a very poor return.
I think there are similarities between himself and Paudi. Both men undoubtedly have genuine credibility as players and managers. But sadly now both have become media legends who like the limelight and give good copy and are plying their trade with counties that have little or no chance of success. I would think both of them would much prefer to be managing their native green and gold. But there is now a world of difference between them and the low profile, efficient modern manner in which the likes of the excellent Jack O'Connor steered the Kerry ship these last few seasons. Roll on the spring and summer when journalists get some meaningful material to write about.
Never said i was content but you have to remember Laois had not won a Leinster for 57 years and im fairly certain if it wasn't for Dwyer we still wouldn't have
Of course i would have loved more and really the two we lost Westmeath 04 Dublin 05 we should have won both
Anyway despite what some are sayiong the best is not behind us and hopefully there will be more silverware to come
i think that's a load of rubbish matt to be honest.
Cast your mind back if you may and ask yourself how often did kildare win anything prior to him being there and the same for Laois. As i pointed out in a prior thread laois never won an u21 all-ireland they played in one final- 80% of their players on the minor teams never cut it at senior level simply because they were made celebrities at a ridiculously young age. Micko even said that himself. u21 is the gauge for success in my view because the players will come through at that stage- minor means little or nothing in the general scheme of senior inter county football- that's why maughan hasn't brought any of the roscommon players on. I thought he raised laosi to a level they hadn't made previously and their failings was more down to the attitude of some of the players like Parkinson for example who is a case study of a star underage player who thought he was something he wasn't.
I know myself as a Dub - we viewed laois and kildare as absolute cannon fodder- one ex-dub said to me a good team to get the scoring averages up against. That doesn't exist anymore and that whether you like it or not is down to Micko.
We don't particularly like Kerrymen in Dublin but you can't argue with the facts-success follows him. Even if he wins nothing with wicklow- he's raised the profile of the county and kids in Wicklow will start following the team. He's given Wicklow players something to aspire to - how that can be a bad thing is beyond me? He's gone to a footballing backwater and is trying to bring them up a level- i disagree entirely with what you're saying.
Quote from: Josey Whales on January 08, 2007, 10:16:18 PM
i think that's a load of rubbish matt to be honest.
Cast your mind back if you may and ask yourself how often did kildare win anything prior to him being there and the same for Laois. As i pointed out in a prior thread laois never won an u21 all-ireland they played in one final- 80% of their players on the minor teams never cut it at senior level simply because they were made celebrities at a ridiculously young age. Micko even said that himself. u21 is the gauge for success in my view because the players will come through at that stage- minor means little or nothing in the general scheme of senior inter county football- that's why maughan hasn't brought any of the roscommon players on. I thought he raised laosi to a level they hadn't made previously and their failings was more down to the attitude of some of the players like Parkinson for example who is a case study of a star underage player who thought he was something he wasn't.
I know myself as a Dub - we viewed laois and kildare as absolute cannon fodder- one ex-dub said to me a good team to get the scoring averages up against. That doesn't exist anymore and that whether you like it or not is down to Micko.
We don't particularly like Kerrymen in Dublin but you can't argue with the facts-success follows him. Even if he wins nothing with wicklow- he's raised the profile of the county and kids in Wicklow will start following the team. He's given Wicklow players something to aspire to - how that can be a bad thing is beyond me? He's gone to a footballing backwater and is trying to bring them up a level- i disagree entirely with what you're saying.
Couldn't agree more exactly what i was trying to say only with more feeling,looks like we argee on something josey ;)
Quote from: laoislad on January 08, 2007, 10:11:45 PM
Of course i would have loved more and really the two we lost Westmeath 04 Dublin 05 we should have won both
Could have won both, I'm not too sure about should have.
anyways, well said Josey!
QuoteLaois will do well this year
Brave prediction there.
QuoteOf course i would have loved more and really the two we lost Westmeath 04 Dublin 05 we should have won both
maybe but you won one in 2003 that you should have lost....
From a Kildare perspective I agree with Josey as he has pretty much nailed it on the head, Kildare at the moment are taking 2 steps back to go one step forward and if it wasn't for Micko I doubt if even that would be happening now.
My views on Micko have been aired a fair few times on various incarnations of this board, so I won't bore ye with another missal. To sum up I believe
1. Micko introduced the early variety of 'puke football' to Kerry. (Witness Pat Spillane and Ogie Moran sweeping up in the half back line).
2. Micko introduced a diving culture to Kildare and Laois. Two proud counties that would not naturally go down suddenly developed amazingly slippy feet when within sight of the posts.
3. Micko is a very good tactical coach, but a cynical auld fecker who plays the media like a cheap guitar.
Also, apart from the cynicism and 'cute hoorism', I think an important factor Micko brings is simply the 'Micko factor'. In early days with teams he inspires them simply based on 'Micko says we are great, and sure he knows'. That tends to wear off though. To be honest, I think he did pretty well at Kildare, but I think he underachieved at Laois. If a local manager had only managed 1 Leinster title from that Laois production line, they'd be getting a bit of criticism, or at least a bit of 'Sure why wouldn't they win one?'. I would expect Wicklow to become competitive for a season or two, and then fade away. Micko would jump ship before it became obvious, thus preserving the legend and ensuring another offer will come his way.
Have to agree to differ then Josey. Of course Maughan wont bring the Ross minors through just yet but they will be expected to help us win a provincial title in the future. With Laois's underage success I still argue that one senior title is very poor. AZ's point that a local Laois manager would have received heavy criticism if he only achieved the same is very valid. I accept the "Micko factor" point that someone mentioned but this in itself is fed by the media and I dont think it's benefit sustains his teams as time goes on. Anyway the title of the thread was whether the Micko hype is justified or just a page filler and I definitely say it's the latter.
lads it is purely down to the time of year, with micko getting two-three pages in the indo, i particularly dont see anything wrong with the hype, especially when he is going to a weak under achieving team like wicklow. if he cant get them competitive and believing they can play just as well as the rest then that is a good thing.
the opposite is happening in hurling not enough competitive teams,
whatever about him being money mad, Micko is A GAA man and motivates whatever team he is in charge of to perform out of their skins.
He demands dedication and will run them to the ground to have them among the fittest in the country.
With fitness and belief behind you , with a a smattering of good and resolute players you can only improve on past poor performances.
Micko def kick started Kildare football and Laois also neede that jump start to help their talented but underachieving footballers to get over that psychological barrier.
I think Micko has a very good eye for a team that would have potential alright. Notwithstanding my earlier comments, he seems to be able to pick a job where he knows there is a fair chance of 'relative success'. I.e. if he gets Wicklow to a Leinster final , he's done a good job there.
However, as I've said, it's almost a self-fulfilling prophesy. If the players believe they can win, then they have a great chance from the get-go. Micko telling them he thinks they can win is a huge boost, because he's seen it all before, hence they believe a bit more in themselves. As the aura fades away though, and they are running their 250th lap of the field, while listening to their mates in college talking about the latest methods being employed elsewhere, then the doubt sets in. That causes a gradual loss of form. Micko usually spots this very quickly, and abandons ship before anything disasterous happens. Everyone then remembers the good wins and stuff, and he goes away and gets another job.
It seems that Paddy Heaney from the Irish News has been asking the same question today in his articule.
Good post there from Josey Whales I agree with the most of it. The real skinny on Mickey is somewhere between the two poles of this thread.
He unquestionably gives counties a massive lift and certainly leaves them in better health than he finds them, although I would agree with both points of view on laois, a. that they might not even have the one Leinster but for Micko and b. that they still should have won at least another.
Good observances from AZ Offaly there too, makes alot of sense.
On Laois this year, I think they'll need watching in what is a poor enough but generally open championship. Kearns will address their physical shortcomings and employ a more aggressive gameplan than Micko and this to me was the single biggest reason why they always faltered at the business end of the last few championships. Fuse this with the obvious footballing ability in the side and Laois will be more than a match for Leinster and may ruffle a few feathrers beyond. Dublin with questions remaining after a slightly stalled year are facing a tough challenge in 2007 with a renewed Laois, upcoming Louth, bouyant, if likely to fall short, Wicklow, Meath under a new boss and Longford also making progress of their own.
Laois look well placed in my humble opinion.
QuoteIt seems that Paddy Heaney from the Irish News has been asking the same question today in his articule
I hope Ziggy that you are not suggesting that a journalist would have looked into our little goldfish bowl and stole an idea for a piece.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 09, 2007, 02:56:04 PM
QuoteIt seems that Paddy Heaney from the Irish News has been asking the same question today in his articule
I hope Ziggy that you are not suggesting that a journalist would have looked into our little goldfish bowl and stole an idea for a piece.
Would I ever come out with a thing like that? ::)