Due to a late venue change when the Derry ladies were already on their way to Cavan, the game was moved to Breffni 3G pitch, but the ladies didn't have the right boots with them to play on that surface (for player safety)
They confirmed with the game ref that metal studs wouldn't be allowed on the pitch so they turned the bus around.
This comes after the controversy when the Ulster Council refused to reschedule the games as Steelestown played on Sunday, and then were expected to play again tonight in a game over 2 hours away and if they won to play again next weekend..3.games in a week despite their own guidance having a minimum recommendation of 5 days between championship games.
Since when were certain studs not allowed on 3g pitches? This is news to me.
Quote from: RandyDupree on November 03, 2022, 12:15:23 AM
Since when were certain studs not allowed on 3g pitches? This is news to me.
I was coaching a soccer team 10 years ago and we trained on a 3g and we weren't allowed studs on it then so definitely not a new thing.
Feel for Steelstown here. Surely the Ulster board knew when the game was called off 2 weeks ago that this was going to cause problems for someone. The late switch of venue and boots issue is just the icing on the cake.
U never been allowed metal studs on a 3g pitch and that going bck 20yrs.
I don't know much about the LGFA but I can't help thinking that root cause of this isn't Ulster trying to run its competitions to schedule, but the Derry board not having the discipline (or perhaps the willingness) to run their championships off as part of a bigger picture.
I could be barking up the wrong tree here of course. But if I'm right, then the aggressive anti Ulster Council narrative should be lessened. Of course Ulster could just extend the dates of their competition.... But you know what, their football counterparts would not as frankly it pushes the mess down the line. And at least football own their pitches and can drop big games in at the drop of a hat.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 08:28:11 AM
I don't know much about the LGFA but I can't help thinking that root cause of this isn't Ulster trying to run its competitions to schedule, but the Derry board not having the discipline (or perhaps the willingness) to run their championships off as part of a bigger picture.
I could be barking up the wrong tree here of course. But if I'm right, then the aggressive anti Ulster Council narrative should be lessened. Of course Ulster could just extend the dates of their competition.... But you know what, their football counterparts would not as frankly it pushes the mess down the line. And at least football own their pitches and can drop big games in at the drop of a hat.
You are completely wrong. Derry final was played about 6/7 weeks ago.
Quote from: RandyDupree on November 03, 2022, 12:15:23 AM
Since when were certain studs not allowed on 3g pitches? This is news to me.
Have never been allowed studs on a 3G pitch in my experience. Can actually damage the surface afaik, never mind the potential injury concerns.
Ladies and Camogie associations are very poorly run. Always have been. Integrating them into the GAA could be a disaster because they won't change. Common sense and good governance is lacking at all levels.
Quote from: oakleaflad on November 03, 2022, 09:21:50 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 08:28:11 AM
I don't know much about the LGFA but I can't help thinking that root cause of this isn't Ulster trying to run its competitions to schedule, but the Derry board not having the discipline (or perhaps the willingness) to run their championships off as part of a bigger picture.
I could be barking up the wrong tree here of course. But if I'm right, then the aggressive anti Ulster Council narrative should be lessened. Of course Ulster could just extend the dates of their competition.... But you know what, their football counterparts would not as frankly it pushes the mess down the line. And at least football own their pitches and can drop big games in at the drop of a hat.
You are completely wrong. Derry final was played about 6/7 weeks ago.
So can you walk me through what's happened here?
Why would Ulster LFGA try to compress their championship into such a short window?
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 09:31:52 AM
Quote from: oakleaflad on November 03, 2022, 09:21:50 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 08:28:11 AM
I don't know much about the LGFA but I can't help thinking that root cause of this isn't Ulster trying to run its competitions to schedule, but the Derry board not having the discipline (or perhaps the willingness) to run their championships off as part of a bigger picture.
I could be barking up the wrong tree here of course. But if I'm right, then the aggressive anti Ulster Council narrative should be lessened. Of course Ulster could just extend the dates of their competition.... But you know what, their football counterparts would not as frankly it pushes the mess down the line. And at least football own their pitches and can drop big games in at the drop of a hat.
You are completely wrong. Derry final was played about 6/7 weeks ago.
So can you walk me through what's happened here?
Why would Ulster LFGA try to compress their championship into such a short window?
Steelstown had been due to play their quarter final last Sunday but it was postponed due to a waterlogged pitch. Steelstown only found out upon arrival at the pitch.
Quarter final was played on Sunday - Steelstown won.
Semi Final scheduled for last night.
Steelstown request to have semi final put back to this Sunday and push the competition back for work/childcare and player welfare concerns as the final is also scheduled for this Sunday. This request is denied.
Steelstown get on bus to go to Semi Final (roughly 2.5 hours away) yesterday evening only to be told on the way that the game has had a change of venue to a 3G pitch. Players did not have appropriate boots with them. Ulster Ladies secretary had originally said it'd be ok to play with studs only for the ref to then say it wouldn't. Ulster Ladies then asked could someone not gather up appropriate football boots and take them down. (Those travelling had already left). Steelstown left with no choice really but to turn around and head home. They are massively disappointed having trained all year, arranged childcare, rearranged work etc.
*Note* - I am not from Steelstown but the above was an account from someone in the club.
Ulster Ladies seem to have been a complete shambles throughout and the fact the ref threw the ball up and posed for pictures having advised that they couldn't play with the boots they had with them on the bus doesn't sit well with me either. I have no idea why they were trying to run it off so quickly.
Just my two cents but provincial championship matches shouldn't be played midweek or on an artificial surface either in my opinion.
Lgfa have been caught with incompetent governance before but I'm not sure what could be done in this case. If I'm a county player I'm bringing both sets of boots to every game. The rain yesterday was horrendous in bursts so a pitch could go from playable to unplayable in 20mins. Derry is 2.5 hrs away. Setting aside the day the game was fixed, what else could be done here?
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:15:55 AM
Lgfa have been caught with incompetent governance before but I'm not sure what could be done in this case. If I'm a county player I'm bringing both sets of boots to every game. The rain yesterday was horrendous in bursts so a pitch could go from playable to unplayable in 20mins. Derry is 2.5 hrs away. Setting aside the day the game was fixed, what else could be done here?
They're not county players. And playing a championship game on 3g is unheard of.
Quote from: oakleaflad on November 03, 2022, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 09:31:52 AM
Quote from: oakleaflad on November 03, 2022, 09:21:50 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 08:28:11 AM
I don't know much about the LGFA but I can't help thinking that root cause of this isn't Ulster trying to run its competitions to schedule, but the Derry board not having the discipline (or perhaps the willingness) to run their championships off as part of a bigger picture.
I could be barking up the wrong tree here of course. But if I'm right, then the aggressive anti Ulster Council narrative should be lessened. Of course Ulster could just extend the dates of their competition.... But you know what, their football counterparts would not as frankly it pushes the mess down the line. And at least football own their pitches and can drop big games in at the drop of a hat.
You are completely wrong. Derry final was played about 6/7 weeks ago.
So can you walk me through what's happened here?
Why would Ulster LFGA try to compress their championship into such a short window?
Steelstown had been due to play their quarter final last Sunday but it was postponed due to a waterlogged pitch. Steelstown only found out upon arrival at the pitch.
Quarter final was played on Sunday - Steelstown won.
Semi Final scheduled for last night.
Steelstown request to have semi final put back to this Sunday and push the competition back for work/childcare and player welfare concerns as the final is also scheduled for this Sunday. This request is denied.
Steelstown get on bus to go to Semi Final (roughly 2.5 hours away) yesterday evening only to be told on the way that the game has had a change of venue to a 3G pitch. Players did not have appropriate boots with them. Ulster Ladies secretary had originally said it'd be ok to play with studs only for the ref to then say it wouldn't. Ulster Ladies then asked could someone not gather up appropriate football boots and take them down. (Those travelling had already left). Steelstown left with no choice really but to turn around and head home. They are massively disappointed having trained all year, arranged childcare, rearranged work etc.
*Note* - I am not from Steelstown but the above was an account from someone in the club.
Ulster Ladies seem to have been a complete shambles throughout and the fact the ref threw the ball up and posed for pictures having advised that they couldn't play with the boots they had with them on the bus doesn't sit well with me either. I have no idea why they were trying to run it off so quickly.
Just my two cents but provincial championship matches shouldn't be played midweek or on an artificial surface either in my opinion.
On the assumption that all of the above is correct, they can definitely feel very aggrieved. There are a few issues that would need addressing. A competition that is played in the autumn/winter should surely allow teams at least 2 weeks between rounds in order to allow for postponements. Start with the Ulster final date and work backwards from there when setting fixture dates. If Derry had their championship finished 6/7 weeks before the competition began then why the prolonged delay in beginning the competition. All counties should be finished up at least 2 and probably 3 weeks before the provincial competition starts to give their clubs a fair chance at provincial success. No team should have to play 3 matches in a week at this level of competition in winter conditions. The midweek game undermines the competition.
It's not the first time a ladies team had an issue sourcing a pitch, I can remember it happening at senior county level for a semi final a few years ago, I think with Cork and Galway. The sooner they affiliate with the GAA the better in order to lessen the pitch issue.
As for the 3G issue, it most definitely isn't reasonable to ask players to wear steel studs on a synthetic 3G surface, that is putting the safety of the players in jeopardy. The Ulster LGFA should come out and explain their rationale and put over their side of the story since we have only heard one side thus far. If Steelstown are correct with their story though, you would think that logic would prevail and the game should be refixed.
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:15:55 AM
Lgfa have been caught with incompetent governance before but I'm not sure what could be done in this case. If I'm a county player I'm bringing both sets of boots to every game. The rain yesterday was horrendous in bursts so a pitch could go from playable to unplayable in 20mins. Derry is 2.5 hrs away. Setting aside the day the game was fixed, what else could be done here?
I think you've answered your own question. This should have been done initially and then nothing else would have been needed.
I do think that they also could have realized the whole thing was a bit of a shambles last night, they put Steelstown in an impossible position and they could have postponed the game.
#justiceforsteelstown
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2022, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:15:55 AM
Lgfa have been caught with incompetent governance before but I'm not sure what could be done in this case. If I'm a county player I'm bringing both sets of boots to every game. The rain yesterday was horrendous in bursts so a pitch could go from playable to unplayable in 20mins. Derry is 2.5 hrs away. Setting aside the day the game was fixed, what else could be done here?
They're not county players. And playing a championship game on 3g is unheard of.
Agreed. What really would the big deal have been to put the game back to Sunday. 3 championship matches in a week is ridiculous as well
I really enjoy womens football now.
But this is women making decisions - you know what they're like in general and when you get a group of them together making decisions.... pfff all bets are off to what will happen.
Quote from: WT4E on November 03, 2022, 11:17:23 AM
I really enjoy womens football now.
But this is women making decisions - you know what they're like in general and when you get a group of them together making decisions.... pfff all bets are off to what will happen.
Most people in power in the LGFA are men from my experience. Usually ones that weren't wanted in the men's game too.
I think some of this is a result of a bad spell of weather, but it comes down to bad planning that a game was called off last minute 2 Sundays ago.
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:15:55 AM
Lgfa have been caught with incompetent governance before but I'm not sure what could be done in this case. If I'm a county player I'm bringing both sets of boots to every game. The rain yesterday was horrendous in bursts so a pitch could go from playable to unplayable in 20mins. Derry is 2.5 hrs away. Setting aside the day the game was fixed, what else could be done here?
Wise up .
So if was raining why would anyone pack mouldies. Championship should never be played midweek or on artificial or packed together so tightly.
Quote from: WT4E on November 03, 2022, 11:17:23 AM
I really enjoy womens football now.
But this is women making decisions - you know what they're like in general and when you get a group of them together making decisions.... pfff all bets are off to what will happen.
I think its brutal but steelstown been treated like crap.
And the letter was signed by men
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 03, 2022, 12:25:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:15:55 AM
Lgfa have been caught with incompetent governance before but I'm not sure what could be done in this case. If I'm a county player I'm bringing both sets of boots to every game. The rain yesterday was horrendous in bursts so a pitch could go from playable to unplayable in 20mins. Derry is 2.5 hrs away. Setting aside the day the game was fixed, what else could be done here?
Wise up .
So if was raining why would anyone pack mouldies. Championship should never be played midweek or on artificial or packed together so tightly.
100% agreed.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 03, 2022, 05:01:02 PM
I mentioned earlier this year regarding LGFA officialdom (in the Tyrone club thread) that when things go fine in the association they usually go very well, but when they don't go well the screw-ups can go big! IMO in general this is down to the admin levels at county & provincial levels not really having scaled up over the years to accommodate the larger amount of clubs & players involved in the game over the years, alongside the case that very, very few LGFA units own their own facilities and are dependent on general GAA goodwill. But that's a matter for another time.
Looking at the central LGFA fixture masterplan, the All-Ireland senior/intermediate/junior club quarter finals are down for 19/20 November with the semi-finals on the 26/27 and the finals a fortnight later on the 10/11 of December. I'm not sure if the Ulster IFC winners for this year play in an All-Ireland quarter final but if they do, then having the Steelstown vs. Castlerahan/Denn semi-final this weekend would force the final vs. Derrygonnelly to be the following weekend with the winners straight into an All-Ireland quarter final the next weekend, and that the Ulster LGFA fixtures organisers were reluctant to go down this route. Without more details, it's not easy to say. One thing is for sure however is that since the provincial & All-Ireland club championships are played on a tight calendar, it should be the case that where there is a home side in a tie they should have a standby venue arranged to take the game at a moments notice - and if it's on an all-weather surface the opposition should be noted this in advance. Running off such competitions with little room for rescheduling really requires this to be in place.
Unfortunately, having this game switched to the 3G pitch at Breffni at pretty much the last minute while a team was already traveling does not look good on those responsible for arranging the fixture/venue & I wouldn't blame Steelstown if they logged an appeal given the circumstances they found themselves in through no fault of their own.
On a similar gripe, I wonder how on earth were Derrygonnelly allowed to compete in the Ulster & All-Ireland IFC championships after being defeated earlier this year in the Fermanagh SFC final by Kinawley? Surely you should only be competing in one consistent grade and that is that?
Bit more to it. Fermanagh didn't have a Senior championship, but when Kinawley won the county and Ulster Intermediate title last year they had to go Senior. Can hardly have a Senior championship with one team, so Derrygonnelly and Enniskillen participated in it this year. Think the agreement was that if Derrygonnelly or Enniskillen didn't win they could enter the Intermediate championship. Derrygonnelly never won the Intermediate title before this year.
DIsgrace that Steelstown were prevented from playing a match they wanted to. Surely they should not be punished due to bad organisation. As for bringing two types of boots, a lot do this but not all. At this time of year you are pretty much going to go for studs all the time, especially in the evening.
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.
Ever play on it? Hateful surface to be on imo.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
Were they informed? If so, were they told they wouldn't be able to wear studs?
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 10:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.
Ever play on it? Hateful surface to be on imo.
Depends if you're a fast corner forward or a slow corner back.
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 10:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.
Ever play on it? Hateful surface to be on imo.
Depends if you're a fast corner forward or a slow corner back.
True! ;D Sore on the joints in my experience anyway!
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 10:24:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 10:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.
Ever play on it? Hateful surface to be on imo.
Depends if you're a fast corner forward or a slow corner back.
True! ;D Sore on the joints in my experience anyway!
They are but most of latest have a new impact underlay that eases the impact injuries.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 03, 2022, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
Were they informed? If so, were they told they wouldn't be able to wear studs?
Were they informed before they set out?
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:28:30 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 10:24:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 10:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2022, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: StephenC on November 03, 2022, 09:00:30 PM
So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?
Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.
I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.
Ever play on it? Hateful surface to be on imo.
Depends if you're a fast corner forward or a slow corner back.
True! ;D Sore on the joints in my experience anyway!
They are but most of latest have a new impact underlay that eases the impact injuries.
Aye they are called 4G
ULSTER LGFA STATEMENT – 4th NOVEMBER, 2022
The Ulster LGFA Council wishes to make the following statement regarding the Ulster Ladies Intermediate Club Championship – and outline the below timeline of events in relation to same.
Sunday 23rd October Ulster Ladies Intermediate Quarter-Final between Steelstown & Aodh Ruadh postponed due to waterlogged pitch.
Monday 24th October The Ulster Fixtures Secretary contacted all Intermediate clubs to see if they wanted the Final to remain on Sunday 6th November. All five clubs still in the competition confirmed that they wished for the final to remain on 6th November due to the logistics involved with the All-Ireland Quarter-Final. The Ulster Ladies Fixtures Committee met on the evening of Monday 24th and drafted a proposal to be brought to an Emergency Ulster Council meeting on Tuesday 25th October.
Note: The winning Ulster Intermediate Champions must travel to either Edinburgh or London to play in the All-Ireland Quarter-Final on Saturday 19th November. If the final was pushed back to Sunday 13th November, it would result in limited time to book accommodation and make the necessary travel arrangements.
Tuesday 25th October Emergency Ulster Council meeting for rescheduling Ulster Intermediate Championship. Ulster Fixtures Committee proposal was to reschedule Quarter-Final for Saturday 29th October, Semi-Final in Cavan on Wednesday 2nd November and Final on Sunday 6th November.
Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management, spoke on behalf of Steelstown and requested for the Quarter-Final to be played on Sunday 30th October rather than Saturday 29th October.
A counter proposal was then put in for the games to be played on Sunday 30th October, Semi-Final on Wednesday 2nd November in Cavan and Final on Sunday 6th November. There were no further counter proposals to these dates. This was voted on and had a majority, including a vote in favour from the Derry Vice-Chairperson. Following the meeting, the dates were e-mailed out to all clubs by the Ulster Fixtures Secretary.
No further correspondence was received on Fixtures until the evening of Sunday 30th October, from Steelstown.
In response to this correspondence, an Ulster LGFA Executive meeting regarding Intermediate fixtures was held on Tuesday 1st November 2022 to discuss the Ulster Intermediate club championship, at which representatives from the three remaining clubs, namely Derrygonnelly, Steelstown and Castlerahan/Denn were present.
After measured deliberation and input from all parties, it was decided and voted upon that fixtures for the Ulster Intermediate club championship would proceed as agreed at the full Ulster LGFA Council Emergency meeting on Tuesday 25th October 2022.
At the Ulster Executive meeting on Tuesday 1st November 2022 the Ulster Fixtures Secretary provided clear and definitive information on the arrangements for the Semi Final fixture between Castlerahan/Denn and Steelstown to take place on Wednesday 2nd November 2022.
This plan was communicated as follows:
1. A pitch inspection would be held at Templeport GAC on Wednesday 2nd November, as early as possible, bearing in mind the poor weather forecast for the day.
2. In the likelihood of inclement weather, and the need for a change of venue, a back-up pitch had been secured. This was clearly communicated as the 3G pitch at Kingspan Breffni on several occasions.
A pitch inspection took place at Templeport GAC at 10.00am, and again at 3.00pm, when it was deemed that the pitch was unplayable at that point.
At 3.24pm the Ulster Ladies Fixtures Secretary contacted both clubs by email to relay this information and initiate the back-up plan.
At 3.50pm, the Steelstown Secretary emailed the Ulster Ladies Fixtures Secretary to request a change of time to 8.00pm for the game, that the players had already left, and they weren't aware that the back-up venue was a 3G pitch. This is in direct contradiction to the information which had been relayed to all parties at the meeting on Tuesday 1st November. The request for an 8.00pm start time was sent to Castlerahan/Denn for agreement, and the match officials subsequently informed.
At 4.23pm, the Ulster Fixtures Secretary received a phone call from the Steelstown Chairperson, who advised that the club's players would not be playing on the 3G pitch as they were not made aware of it in advance, and all had left with boots for a grass pitch. He stated that Ulster LGFA needed to supply a grass pitch for the fixture or there would be no game. The Ulster Fixtures Secretary reiterated the agreed upon back-up plan from the meeting held on 1st November and that the game would go ahead at 8.00pm as planned.
At 5.14pm the Secretary of Steelstown emailed the Ulster Fixtures Secretary to say that they were no longer continuing their journey.
At 6.47pm, the Ulster Ladies Fixtures Secretary sent an e-mail to the Steelstown Secretary asking for confirmation that Steelstown were not fulfilling the fixture on Wednesday 2nd November 2022. This correspondence was not replied to.
At 7.37pm, the Steelstown Chairperson sent an e-mail stating that the club never received information regarding the playing surface communicated to them in writing.
Ulster LGFA refers to rule 303 of the Official Guide: 'Where a Club or County has delegates at a fixtures meeting, such Club or County shall be deemed to have received official notification of decisions made.'
Consequently, a vote was taken at an Emergency Ulster LGFA Council meeting last night, 3rd November, to award the fixture to Castlerahan/Denn. Delegates voted unanimously in favour of this proposal.
Ulster LGFA will be making no further comment at this time.
Ends
Looks like things are not as clear cut as it seems.
If at the meeting all clubs agreed to the dates and were also told of the back up pitch in case of the weather then the issue firmly lies with the club.
One would assume there are minutes taken of that meeting?
My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.
I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.
Unless Steelstown can refute the timeline then it would appear that they are not without fault then in accepting the 3 matches in a week proposal first of all, and then the fact that they received notification that the back up involved a 3G surface. Perhaps it could be down to poor communication between club officials or they simply reviewed their situation after qualifying for the semi final and for whatever reason tried to delay the competition.
However the biggest question arising is why did Ulster LGFA begin the provincial competition so late given the tightness of the match scheduling. They gave themselves no margin for error with fixture scheduling to begin with and that is entirely on them. They should have provided for a 2 week gap between matches to begin with.
While it was ridiculous for the ulster council to agree the 3 games in a week scenario, it's hard to argue it when not only did you have a club person as the County Rep voting on it, but they were also a member of the management team!
It seems the real c**k up here lies with the "Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management"
Did he/she not inform their team of the backup scenario? or did everyone in the management team fail to say "by the way girls, that means you can't wear steel studs if we end up playing on the back pitch"
Picking up the standard Derry City "we're so hard done by" vibe from all of this
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 04, 2022, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 04, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
Unless Steelstown can refute the timeline then it would appear that they are not without fault then in accepting the 3 matches in a week proposal first of all, and then the fact that they received notification that the back up involved a 3G surface. Perhaps it could be down to poor communication between club officials or they simply reviewed their situation after qualifying for the semi final and for whatever reason tried to delay the competition.
However the biggest question arising is why did Ulster LGFA begin the provincial competition so late given the tightness of the match scheduling. They gave themselves no margin for error with fixture scheduling to begin with and that is entirely on them. They should have provided for a 2 week gap between matches to begin with.
If the Ulster LGFA statement is to be taken as gospel, then in those circumstances Steelstown don't really have have much room for maneuver in claiming that they've not been at fault - the only issue there that I have is that by notifying the change of venue by email. To me email should never be relied upon for sending urgent or semi-urgent information - I can understand doing so for a "paper trail" to be left, but an official phone-call should be made in those circumstances where practical IMO in addition to email.
As for the competition dates, the provincial club championships has always been run off quite quickly in the autumn for as long as I can remember - the LGFA Master Fixtures Plan (https://ladiesgaelic.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/2022-Master-Fixture-Plan-May-2022.pdf) set windows for them, Leinster & Ulster usually require four weekends whereas Munster & Connacht just need three. This lets counties plan accordingly for their own club championship dates prior to this. In hindsight, it would not have been a bad idea to have left a fortnight's gap in Ulster competitions between either the quarter & semis or the semis & final to allow for unforeseen delays in the competitions.
I would agree with you in relation to making a phonecall on the day of the match to speak verbally with Steelstown in addition to the email.
But given the weather and the history of finding pitches at short notice, the competition should most definitely have had 2 week gaps between rounds. They didn't need the benefit of hindsight to figure that out the schedule was too tight.
Its a mess and ultimately you would feel sympathy for the Steelstown players the most. They are the biggest losers in all of this for something that was not of their own doing. A chance at provincial success does not come around too often for most sides not to mention the time and energy they would have invested in it.
Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2022, 01:30:07 PM
While it was ridiculous for the ulster council to agree the 3 games in a week scenario, it's hard to argue it when not only did you have a club person as the County Rep voting on it, but they were also a member of the management team!
It seems the real c**k up here lies with the "Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management"
Did he/she not inform their team of the backup scenario? or did everyone in the management team fail to say "by the way girls, that means you can't wear steel studs if we end up playing on the back pitch"
Picking up the standard Derry City "we're so hard done by" vibe from all of this
Oh aye- give us some more examples there mucker. Was it the civil rights campaign or something else
Quote from: thewobbler on November 04, 2022, 12:51:37 PM
My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.
I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.
I think Steelstown are chancing were chancing their arm to get more time. Ulster ladies seem to be very clear with their timeline. I think the Derry vice- chairperson has truly fecked up here.
ooohhhh!
Quote from: Truth hurts on November 04, 2022, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 04, 2022, 12:51:37 PM
My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.
I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.
I think Steelstown are chancing were chancing their arm to get more time. Ulster ladies seem to be very clear with their timeline. I think the Derry vice- chairperson has truly fecked up here.
In terms of the vote on playing 3 games in a week to finish the competition out, most management teams would not want to be seen to be thinking a round ahead of themselves. They wouldn't want to be seen to be presumptuous about winning and I doubt very much if they gave the decision a great deal of thought or had even asked their players around availability for a midweek cross country trek prior to winning their first round match. I can imagine that this was only spoken about immediately after winning the quarter final.
There is something not right about asking a team to begin travelling around 3pm on a Wednesday in the depth of winter for an Ulster semi final. So for me the biggest issue arising here still rests entirely around the failure with the original tight fixture scheduling.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 04, 2022, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 04, 2022, 01:35:14 PM
But given the weather and the history of finding pitches at short notice, the competition should most definitely have had 2 week gaps between rounds. They didn't need the benefit of hindsight to figure that out the schedule was too tight.
For that to work in Ulster you'd need to spread the competition over seven weeks (for for senior, as there's no Derry rep currently in that competition), remembering that the provincial winners near enough go straight into the All-Ireland series too. They don't have a huge amount of time to work with without forcing county boards to get their own championships completed early too. Some do, but some others leave it until later like Tyrone (which itself was run on a week by round basis).
The mens competition is being run off within 5 weeks and they do not have anywhere near the same issue around sourcing pitches, so LGFA should be allowing at least 5 and most probably 6 weeks to play their competition.
Given the introduction of the split season and the fact that the county stuff finished up at the start of July, if the county boards can't run off their respective championships within 3 months then that is entirely on those individual county boards.
Quote from: yellowcard on November 04, 2022, 02:08:53 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on November 04, 2022, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 04, 2022, 12:51:37 PM
My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.
I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.
I think Steelstown are chancing were chancing their arm to get more time. Ulster ladies seem to be very clear with their timeline. I think the Derry vice- chairperson has truly fecked up here.
In terms of the vote on playing 3 games in a week to finish the competition out, most management teams would not want to be seen to be thinking a round ahead of themselves. They wouldn't want to be seen to be presumptuous about winning and I doubt very much if they gave the decision a great deal of thought or had even asked their players around availability for a midweek cross country trek prior to winning their first round match. I can imagine that this was only spoken about immediately after winning the quarter final.
There is something not right about asking a team to begin travelling around 3pm on a Wednesday in the depth of winter for an Ulster semi final. So for me the biggest issue arising here still rests entirely around the failure with the original tight fixture scheduling.
There's some validity in what you're saying, no doubt.
But (as well as it not being the depths of winter), what you're suggesting is that when clubs agree to rules, they should have the right to appeal for change, at whatever stage they actually get around to understanding the implications. Honestly, I can't have that.
https://youtu.be/aWG-s4wopEM
Some finish
Quote from: theticklemister on November 04, 2022, 05:40:17 PM
https://youtu.be/aWG-s4wopEM
Some finish
Embarrassing. Redner fir them
Is it just me or does Cavan always seem to have amalgamated teams?
Quote from: theticklemister on November 04, 2022, 05:40:17 PM
https://youtu.be/aWG-s4wopEM
Some finish
Definitely hope Derrygonnelly beat them after watching her celebrate the goal.
Quote from: theticklemister on November 04, 2022, 05:40:17 PM
https://youtu.be/aWG-s4wopEM
Some finish
embarrassing, hopefully Derrygonnelly win final after all this.
I say a no of ladies teams, especially younger girls woukd not have 2sets of boots, played yrs with only metal studs until the harder summer ground forced me to change to moulded, then I worn them in any weather. Seen the damn price of boots these days
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 04, 2022, 07:47:32 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 04, 2022, 05:40:17 PM
https://youtu.be/aWG-s4wopEM
Some finish
embarrassing, hopefully Derrygonnelly win final after all this.
Why, what did the girl do? Was she supposed to walk off head bowed in shame. It quite clear now where the blame for this shambles lies.
Very poor outcome for both teams. You would want to win a game on the field. Which begs the question - what would happen if the Cavan team deliberately take the score? Would it be abandoned as a 0-0 draw and go to a replay ?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 04, 2022, 09:20:54 PM
I say a no of ladies teams, especially younger girls woukd not have 2sets of boots, played yrs with only metal studs until the harder summer ground forced me to change to moulded, then I worn them in any weather. Seen the damn price of boots these days
And if they were told of the backup pitch, how many would have automatically known that studs were a no go?
Also, if one team fails to field, why the charade of having one team play and score? Why did this not happen between Dromintee and Crossmaglen back when players were missing due to a stag do?
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 04, 2022, 10:09:08 PM
Also, if one team fails to field, why the charade of having one team play and score? Why did this not happen between Dromintee and Crossmaglen back when players were missing due to a stag do?
Because Dromintee did field and it was a wedding not a stag
So steelstown are now claiming a lack of "clear and definitive guidance", while not missing the opportunity to stick a player welfare boot in.
Honestly, I can't have sympathy for any club that agrees to rules and then changes their mind.
It's a shit situation all round but the initial aghast thrown at Ulster was more than a tad unfair.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 04, 2022, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 04, 2022, 10:09:08 PM
Also, if one team fails to field, why the charade of having one team play and score? Why did this not happen between Dromintee and Crossmaglen back when players were missing due to a stag do?
Because Dromintee did field and it was a wedding not a stag
Why field though, to avoid a fine?
Imagine Kerry plays on a Sunday, made to play the next Wednesday, then final next Sunday. Do you ever remember that happening in a senior mens competition? Me neither. We can't comprehend it because it just wouldn't happen. We'd understand why because we know it would be a farce to have so many key games so close together. Forget Steelstown's gripe about the 3G pitch. That was the wrong line to take. The Ulster LGFA put them in a bind because of poor planning having such key games so close together. There was no regard for player welfare, nor for the integrity of the competition. Did they think they'd get the best outcome from compressing the final 3 games of the competition? They didn't care, just wanted the competition finished. Steelstown lost the final last year by 1 point. Do people think they just casually threw their chance of a final? Ulster LGFA ballsed up. In the first place, by not planning contingency for a pitch failure the first day. This is Ireland. October is always wet. No contingency for an unplayable pitch on day 1. Screw ups thereafter. Ulster LGFA are incompetent. Steelstown didn't play their cards well but are ultimately the loser. They should have gone and played on their bare feet if they had to. But Ulster LGFA behaved with no virtue and have no credibility if they ever mention player welfare again.
Steelstown have disagreed with the Ulster LGFA and issued their own statement ...they have stated that that the Ulster LGFA statement contains omissions errors and misleading statements
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0qtnxyBRn1Rjqpc4GVLFLRHTFEwRA6WGnVthDNpRqq19iFEgL4xPrVw6KNN8bG6Nzl&id=100045070193647
Curry chop there has been many instances in mens football that a county final was played on a Saturday and they were made play the following day.
So yes it does and has happened in mens
A lot worse too haven to play the following day
Quote from: Smurfy123 on November 05, 2022, 05:37:51 AM
Curry chop there has been many instances in mens football that a county final was played on a Saturday and they were made play the following day.
So yes it does and has happened in mens
A lot worse too haven to play the following day
Doesn't make it right!
Didn't say it did. I'm just stated it also happens in mens and worse too
Quote from: Lazer on November 05, 2022, 12:36:22 AM
Steelstown have disagreed with the Ulster LGFA and issued their own statement ...it contains omissions errors and misleading statements
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0qtnxyBRn1Rjqpc4GVLFLRHTFEwRA6WGnVthDNpRqq19iFEgL4xPrVw6KNN8bG6Nzl&id=100045070193647
Lazer, probably not intentionally, but the way you've put that is a bit misleading. The Steelstown statement does not " contain errors omissions and misleading statements". Their club statement said that the ULGFA statement had "errors/omissions etc".
If there's a player welfare issue with playing all these games so close together, don't Steelstown share some of the blame? According to the lgfa statement the offer was put to all remaining counties to push the final out a week and all counties voted against this. The Derry rep being from Steelstown!
The Root of this comes down to dilly dallying for weeks to finish County Championships.
There is then a huge rush to finish off provincial Championships in a small window. Provincial games should all be always originally scheduled for a Saturday, so that if there is a problem, the Sunday is there to offer a buffer.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 04, 2022, 01:38:24 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2022, 01:30:07 PM
While it was ridiculous for the ulster council to agree the 3 games in a week scenario, it's hard to argue it when not only did you have a club person as the County Rep voting on it, but they were also a member of the management team!
It seems the real c**k up here lies with the "Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management"
Did he/she not inform their team of the backup scenario? or did everyone in the management team fail to say "by the way girls, that means you can't wear steel studs if we end up playing on the back pitch"
Picking up the standard Derry City "we're so hard done by" vibe from all of this
Oh aye- give us some more examples there mucker. Was it the civil rights campaign or something else
Bus did a u turn at Altnagelvin Hospital once they got the call. ☺️
Quote from: Silver hill on November 05, 2022, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Lazer on November 05, 2022, 12:36:22 AM
Steelstown have disagreed with the Ulster LGFA and issued their own statement ...it contains omissions errors and misleading statements
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0qtnxyBRn1Rjqpc4GVLFLRHTFEwRA6WGnVthDNpRqq19iFEgL4xPrVw6KNN8bG6Nzl&id=100045070193647
Lazer, probably not intentionally, but the way you've put that is a bit misleading. The Steelstown statement does not " contain errors omissions and misleading statements". Their club statement said that the ULGFA statement had "errors/omissions etc".
Their statement does not appear to have any facts to back up their assertions. The LGGA statement at least had email timings and wording to backup their statement.
Quote from: Silver hill on November 05, 2022, 10:17:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 04, 2022, 01:38:24 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2022, 01:30:07 PM
While it was ridiculous for the ulster council to agree the 3 games in a week scenario, it's hard to argue it when not only did you have a club person as the County Rep voting on it, but they were also a member of the management team!
It seems the real c**k up here lies with the "Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management"
Did he/she not inform their team of the backup scenario? or did everyone in the management team fail to say "by the way girls, that means you can't wear steel studs if we end up playing on the back pitch"
Picking up the standard Derry City "we're so hard done by" vibe from all of this
Oh aye- give us some more examples there mucker. Was it the civil rights campaign or something else
Bus did a u turn at Altnagelvin Hospital once they got the call. ☺️
We don't like going past drumahoe, we are Donegal people anyhow , sure even paddy Heaney said that
Quote from: Silver hill on November 05, 2022, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Lazer on November 05, 2022, 12:36:22 AM
Steelstown have disagreed with the Ulster LGFA and issued their own statement ...it contains omissions errors and misleading statements
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0qtnxyBRn1Rjqpc4GVLFLRHTFEwRA6WGnVthDNpRqq19iFEgL4xPrVw6KNN8bG6Nzl&id=100045070193647
Lazer, probably not intentionally, but the way you've put that is a bit misleading. The Steelstown statement does not " contain errors omissions and misleading statements". Their club statement said that the ULGFA statement had "errors/omissions etc".
Edited now..thanks
Steelstown statement doesn't refute anything and has no detail unlike the Ulster one. Are they not a senior club anyway?
Quote from: mrdeeds on November 05, 2022, 11:37:16 AM
Steelstown statement doesn't refute anything and has no detail unlike the Ulster one. Are they not a senior club anyway?
Senior champions go intermediate depending on your county grade .
Fixture timing issue aside, which is absurd (but once you are on the bus you are for playing the game!!) - if they knew about the backup venue in advance as Ulster LGFA suggest, and their only refutal to play this game at that time was that the players had the incorrect boots - then the blame unfortunately lies with the club for not communicating all possible outcomes clearly with management and players beforehand. Unfortunate, but that's the bottom line where Wednesday is concerned. Anything else prior to that is smoke and mirrors. They were on the bus heading to play the game and people within the club knew the permutations!
Easy to blame the LGFA, who are almost all volunteers; it's a thankless task and they have no money. Perhaps the grumblers on this forum could put themselves forward for office.
Quote from: befair on November 06, 2022, 06:24:17 PM
Easy to blame the LGFA, who are almost all volunteers; it's a thankless task and they have no money. Perhaps the grumblers on this forum could put themselves forward for office.
Wouldn't be anywhere near ladies football, i think all clubs should be playing camogie lol
Derrygonnelly ended up winning the competition. All the spotlight probably done Castlerahan/Denn no favours in the end either.
Quote from: SaffronSports on November 06, 2022, 08:38:01 PM
Derrygonnelly ended up winning the competition. All the spotlight probably done Castlerahan/Denn no favours in the end either.
Don't know and I doubt too many on this forum would know too much about the intermediate ladies club teams of ulster. Best of luck to Derrygonnelly in all Ireland series
Quote from: befair on November 06, 2022, 06:24:17 PM
Easy to blame the LGFA, who are almost all volunteers; it's a thankless task and they have no money. Perhaps the grumblers on this forum could put themselves forward for office.
Players and coaches are volunteers as well. I can't say who was right or wrong here but just saying people are volunteers is no excuse for incompetence. Do the job right/fairly or don't take the role. If you take the role you are impacting on people who are also volunteers