McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Zulu]

The fact that the usual suspects are back to jump on the Cork grave is proof positive of yer immaturity and blindness when it comes to the Cork hurlers. Ye were waiting in the wings for them to fall and then ye came out with all guns blazing, except like before the first casualty was common sense. Let me go through yer responses one at a time,

So Gerald took the lads to Croke Park last year only to fall to KK after putting it up to them for a good while.

The players turned round and said that he was no good and got rid of him for only managing a semi final.

Denis, the new man for this year, didn't manage to get the team outside of Thurles, and were out early doors.

Will Denis get another term ?
Will the players say he was no use and get rid if him if the CB reappoint him ?

I'll ignore your childish rubbish about Denis getting another term and address your point re Gerald. Gerald had 2 unsuccessful years and relationships between Gerald and the players had broken down, a mediator had to be brought in for Christ sake so whatever chance any other man had, Gerlad had no chance of success with the players and should therefore not have been reappointed. Simple.

Zulu, if "the players" (I assume you mean them all rather than a choice few)  had such a poor relationship with Ger then how come they played no worse last year than they did this year? Surely being relieved of him would have brought these very same players on (both motivationally and coaching wise) considering noone has a bad word to say about Denis Walsh and his abilities as a manager and a coach?

It doesn't stack up in my mind

Skull you know as well as I do that sport doesn't necessarily work like that, Cork got a very tough draw this year but could have won both matches, a kinder draw could have seen them reach a Munster final and possibly an AI semi. But results are only part of the equation, Cork don't have the team to beat the best at the moment but that still doesn't mean they shouldn't look for the best preparation. Gerald and the players didn't get on and therefore the preparation could never be as good as it should be, they may not have improved much under Denis but they couldn't have been worse had Gerald stayed in charge.

Ask Reillers Zulu.

I'm not sure what you mean but Reillers opinion isn't fact.

Here's what you wrote after the Tipp match. "We won't know if there is an improvement in Cork's performances until they get to the QF at least."

Yes, and I stand by that but like I've said they had a tough draw and could have won both games, Limerick for example could make an AI semi final despite being woeful, that doesn't mean Justin McCarthy is a great manager but he has been a lucky enough one this year. Anyway I feel Cork have played about as well as they're capable of playing at the moment and are probably 4th or 5th in the country at the moment so Denis did ok and Gerald wouldn't have done any better.

[INDIANA]

In fairness Zulu- you're also prolonging the thread by responding. The point of this thread has long passed.

[Zulu]

True,so I'll leave it at that.

[dowling]

You probably should Zulu since like Reillers you've introduced revisionism to the thread.
Quite a few posters would probably agree with the 4th or 5th rating. The difference is we have been saying this from the start of the strike and that Gerald was never the problem.

[Reillers]

You probably should Zulu since like Reillers you've introduced revisionism to the thread.
Quite a few posters would probably agree with the 4th or 5th rating. The difference is we have been saying this from the start of the strike and that Gerald was never the problem.

Sorry now, but I wasn't the one who dragged this topic back up again. I've made a handful of posts, and barely any of which were about what ye're rambling on about. Most of mine were about the club forum.

[dowling]

Reillers it was always going to be the case that once Cork exited the championship their performances and results would be related to the strike, their actions and particularly the claim by the strikers that Gerald was holding them back. If Cork had won the All-Ireland you and others would have been on here citing such success as proof positive that the strikers were right. If that had happened I and I'm sure others would have acknowledged Gerald maybe was holding them back then but still disagreed with the treatment he got. However, if you trawl the posts you'll find most of us aginst the strike and the methods employed by the strikers were correct in our assessment that Cork had been overtaken in the standings and while they still have superb hurlers, no matter how distasteful they might be as individuals, and are a force not to be underestimated their strength wasn't as great as it had been and the players had used Gerald as a scapegoat for their failings, by their own standards, on the field.
No one is slating Cork hurlers for failing to beat Galway but Cork going out is where their perfomances must be measured. Even pro-strike posters alluded to that although like yourself refuse to acknowledge that now.
I even quoted an Indepentent article to prove this wasn't a conspiracy on this board and that others, more sympathetic to the strikers, held the same view about judging performance.
Appreciate Zulu is away now but coming on and saying Gerald couldn't have done any better is not really analytical although it is ironic as it's an -uninteded I assume- acknowledgement that the players were never up to the task in the first place.
At least show a bit of honesty and swallow your pride.
As an aside to the performance issue some of us were also slated for daring to mention the GPA in relation to the dispute but...
Former Tipperary hurler, Conal Bonnar, was one of the GPA players interviewed on the Late Late Show shortly after the body's inauguration a decade ago. Now, he describes the predicament looming as a kind of "James Larkin scenario."
"I think the whole landscape has changed with the stance of the Cork hurlers this year," explains Bonnar. "That showed that players could stand together and not budge on an issue. And, when players do that, the GAA is powerless.
There's no doubt there's more to come in Cork and as a consequence of the strike and further afield and whether things pan out for better or worse we'll see in time but for now at least admit the stike did nothing for Cork hurling this year on the field of play.

[deiseach]

The fact that the usual suspects are back to jump on the Cork grave is proof positive of yer immaturity and blindness when it comes to the Cork hurlers. Ye were waiting in the wings for them to fall and then ye came out with all guns blazing, except like before the first casualty was common sense.

Er, yes. Do you mean to tell me the usual suspects wouldn't have been crowing from the highest rooftops had Cork won the All-Ireland? Or Munster? Or beaten Galway? The proof of the pudding and all that.

[theskull1]

Skull you know as well as I do that sport doesn't necessarily work like that, Cork got a very tough draw this year but could have won both matches, a kinder draw could have seen them reach a Munster final and possibly an AI semi. But results are only part of the equation, Cork don't have the team to beat the best at the moment but that still doesn't mean they shouldn't look for the best preparation. Gerald and the players didn't get on and therefore the preparation could never be as good as it should be, they may not have improved much under Denis but they couldn't have been worse had Gerald stayed in charge.

Yes, and I stand by that but like I've said they had a tough draw and could have won both games, Limerick for example could make an AI semi final despite being woeful, that doesn't mean Justin McCarthy is a great manager but he has been a lucky enough one this year. Anyway I feel Cork have played about as well as they're capable of playing at the moment and are probably 4th or 5th in the country at the moment so Denis did ok and Gerald wouldn't have done any better.

Yes Zulu I know full well that results are only part of the equation and thought I implied as much by stating that they did no worse last year than they did this year even though they got further last year so we're agreed on that. But if we assume that good managers & coaches bring something to any set up it is surely reasonable to ask you why Denis Walsh's credentials are not being scrutinised now when he and his team have faired no better than last years side who were hamstrung (in many peoples opinion) with Ger Mc at the helm? Surely there were big gains to be made by Denis now that Ger was gone, IF he was as bad as the players made him out to be?

And on the point that Ger and the players didn't get on, well yourself as a coach are bound to have seen teams with the wrong attitude who when things aren't going their way will look to blame everybody else (the training, the manager, the balls etc) before they will ever turn the focus on themselves as individuals and and their own lack of application to the game. It's important to consider that just because getting rid of Ger, whilst it may have been many's (yourself, Reillers, GAA, ??) first choice option, the evidence suggests that he was not the root cause of this Cork teams demise over recent years. After the pillaring that Ger got from the players, I feel it is only right that the mans reputation is defended and that questions are asked of the players as to why they couldn't improve "performance level wise" with this terrible manager gone?

[orangeman]

The fact that the usual suspects are back to jump on the Cork grave is proof positive of yer immaturity and blindness when it comes to the Cork hurlers. Ye were waiting in the wings for them to fall and then ye came out with all guns blazing, except like before the first casualty was common sense. Let me go through yer responses one at a time,


All guns blazing ?? I think we've been very measured in our comments. Had Cork won the AI there would have been some coat trailing and I told you so's.

Gerard you say had 2 unsuccessful years. He got to the semi last year which is further than where they got this year.


So relatively speaking then, Dennis has had a stinker, the least successful season in such a long time ?? When was the last time Cork failed to qualify for the 1/4 final ?



I've said early on in the thread in defence of Gerald that the players weren't up to it. Gerald got them further than they should have. Gerald wasn't the problem as so many pro 2008 panel believe. The players were just past it. No shame as I've always contended. Shit happens. Players / teams can't last forever. A lot of these players brought glory and honour to Cork during their early careers. What a pity that some of their number have delivered shame at the end of them !!

[Reillers]

Is it really too much for ye to accept that we were beaten by a much better team, with Gerald we'd much easier draws, Galway are an excellent team, and I hope and I think they'll have a genuine chance of winning the AI. But no, God forbid that was the reason we didn't get to the quarter final, because we were beaten by a better team.
You couldn't get much worse then when we had Gerald. No trust, hell a mediator was needed to be brought in. Denis Walsh brought this team forward a lot, a lot of positives from this year. A much better, positive atmosphere in the camp, a lot of young players now hold down key positions. This team had a goal, had an aim, not old tactics that weren't going to work, Walsh has a plan, his ideas are good but he just didn't have the time to put them in force. He didn't have time to make the team his own. But obviously we could see the team going forward. With Gerald everything seemed to see us taking steps backwards. And we only seemed to be winning despite of the tactics. Infuriating decisions were made on the sideline. While Walsh, usually, made good calls.
He made the brave call of puttin in Aisake, positives and negatives, but it was a brave call and ultimately the right one in the end. He gave most a genuine chance and like I said there was an excellent vibe in the camp.

[orangeman]

Is it really too much for ye to accept that we were beaten by a much better team, with Gerald we'd much easier draws, Galway are an excellent team, and I hope and I think they'll have a genuine chance of winning the AI. But no, God forbid that was the reason we didn't get to the quarter final, because we were beaten by a better team.
You couldn't get much worse then when we had Gerald. No trust, hell a mediator was needed to be brought in. Denis Walsh brought this team forward a lot, a lot of positives from this year. A much better, positive atmosphere in the camp, a lot of young players now hold down key positions. This team had a goal, had an aim, not old tactics that weren't going to work, Walsh has a plan, his ideas are good but he just didn't have the time to put them in force. He didn't have time to make the team his own. But obviously we could see the team going forward. With Gerald everything seemed to see us taking steps backwards. And we only seemed to be winning despite of the tactics. Infuriating decisions were made on the sideline. While Walsh, usually, made good calls.
He made the brave call of puttin in Aisake, positives and negatives, but it was a brave call and ultimately the right one in the end. He gave most a genuine chance and like I said there was an excellent vibe in the camp.

With Gerard you got to Croke Park and only for Cody picking on Sean Og that day and exposing him, you might have had a chance to turn them over.

With Dennis, you lads didn't get any further than Thurles.


Remind me who you beat last year ?? Surely not Galway with Cork having 14 men

When was the last time Cork failed to into the 1/4 finals ??

[Reillers]

Is it really too much for ye to accept that we were beaten by a much better team, with Gerald we'd much easier draws, Galway are an excellent team, and I hope and I think they'll have a genuine chance of winning the AI. But no, God forbid that was the reason we didn't get to the quarter final, because we were beaten by a better team.
You couldn't get much worse then when we had Gerald. No trust, hell a mediator was needed to be brought in. Denis Walsh brought this team forward a lot, a lot of positives from this year. A much better, positive atmosphere in the camp, a lot of young players now hold down key positions. This team had a goal, had an aim, not old tactics that weren't going to work, Walsh has a plan, his ideas are good but he just didn't have the time to put them in force. He didn't have time to make the team his own. But obviously we could see the team going forward. With Gerald everything seemed to see us taking steps backwards. And we only seemed to be winning despite of the tactics. Infuriating decisions were made on the sideline. While Walsh, usually, made good calls.
He made the brave call of puttin in Aisake, positives and negatives, but it was a brave call and ultimately the right one in the end. He gave most a genuine chance and like I said there was an excellent vibe in the camp.

With Gerard you got to Croke Park and only for Cody picking on Sean Og that day and exposing him, you might have had a chance to turn them over.

With Dennis, you lads didn't get any further than Thurles.


Remind me who you beat last year ?? Surely not Galway with Cork having 14 men

When was the last time Cork failed to into the 1/4 finals ??

We only got as far as Thurles because we met a much better team. Why you can't admit that I don't know.

[dowling]

Is it really too much for ye to accept that we were beaten by a much better team, with Gerald we'd much easier draws, Galway are an excellent team, and I hope and I think they'll have a genuine chance of winning the AI. But no, God forbid that was the reason we didn't get to the quarter final, because we were beaten by a better team.
You couldn't get much worse then when we had Gerald. No trust, hell a mediator was needed to be brought in. Denis Walsh brought this team forward a lot, a lot of positives from this year. A much better, positive atmosphere in the camp, a lot of young players now hold down key positions. This team had a goal, had an aim, not old tactics that weren't going to work, Walsh has a plan, his ideas are good but he just didn't have the time to put them in force. He didn't have time to make the team his own. But obviously we could see the team going forward. With Gerald everything seemed to see us taking steps backwards. And we only seemed to be winning despite of the tactics. Infuriating decisions were made on the sideline. While Walsh, usually, made good calls.
He made the brave call of puttin in Aisake, positives and negatives, but it was a brave call and ultimately the right one in the end. He gave most a genuine chance and like I said there was an excellent vibe in the camp.

So how Reillers do you equate this post with these other recent posts of yours.


IF the right team, in most people's view..except Walsh apparently, had been picked I would have given us an excellent chance of winning the game. With this team though....it looks like curtains. I cannot see Galway loosing to that team. I've a very bad feeling, which seems to be the feeling around Cork at the minute, that our season will be over by Saturday night. I just can't see us winning with this team. JULY 18

I suppose Timmy was always going to start, there to hound out Lee.
DW has played the experience card, but some of those players are past it, were years ago. Ya Walsh should be given the benefit of the doubt, clearly, surely, the few Fraggy and such have to be doing something right in training. It's incredible that some are playing terribly but get their place, are almost a permanent fixture, while Callinan is on real form at the minute and can't get a starting place.
At least we've a strong bench. Just hopefully we'll see more then a half an hour of some players off the bench. Obviously Walsh has training and such to see them in, but I cannot see us winning with that team at all. I don't see a chance of it. Please God I'm proved wrong.  JULY 18

Quote from: cicfada on July 16, 2009, 09:48:56 PM
Cork team for Saturday:

1. Donal Óg Cusack 2. Shane O'Neill 3. Eoin Cadogan
4. Shane Murphy 5. John Gardiner 6. Ronan Curran
7. Seán Óg Ó hAilpín 8. Tom Kenny 9. Jerry O'Connor
10. Ben O'Connor 11. Pa Cronin 12.Timmy McCarthy 13. Kieran Murphy
14. Aisake Ó hAilpín 15. Patrick Horgan

And that's curtains. FFS. We actually could have won this match, IF the right team was played, but that team in places defies logic. Season will be over by Saturday night I'd say.

No Brian Murphy, no Callinan..etc.
I genuinely thought we would win the game, but after seeing that team and then Galway's team, I'm not so sure. Walsh had a massive opportunity to put the best team out but he's gone back to the old reliables, yet again.
Has Timmy played a good game this year for Cork? No. Fraggie? No.
Gardiner's out of form Curran as well, while Callinan is the best player in Tullamore, but can't get a game.
There goes our season. JULY 18

FFS, apparently Shane Murphy (which I had heard earlier but thought, hoped it was nothing) is a serious doubt for the weekend, while Shane O Neill will apparently be man marking Joe Canning..what a waste. Should be someone like Brian Murphy who would annoy the living God out of Canning, he's one of the best defenders in the country and is incredibly street wise, he would hound him out the gate. JULY 15

[Reillers]

I said he made the right decision most of the time. He made the call to go with experience over argueably the better players. But that was his call, he knew the team, he knew how they were training. He made the call, he didn't really have much choice as he didn't have enough time to make the team his own. If he had been there from the start, that we had all proper winter training, all the League..etc. Then I think he should have gone with the younger players. But at the end of the day he probably felt that the younger players weren't ready, Brian Murphy was just back..etc. So there wasn't much choice then to play the old guard and trust them. To be honest, like I'm sure I said, Walsh just wanted the season to be over with all ready so he could start to build towards next season.

He had two years Gerald made the same mistakes over and over again. Against Galway we were beaten by the better team. Against KK way back, his decisions were so infuriating, I mean the game style he made the team play was ancient and it played right into KK's plans, he made stupid decisions when it came to making subs, and he never learned. Walsh has got good ideas and plans, and he's brought in young players to key positions and with more time he'll have much more of an impact. And for the first time in 2 years the team looks to be moving forward. If you can't see why, well that's your problem, because clearly you're not going to accept Walsh, or see how bad a manager Gerald was. Ye wont even give him a chance, which says a lot about ye really. Ye keep, I don't know what to call it, boasting I suppose, that Gerald was manager when we got to a semi and Walsh didn't which means, no question about it Gerald was a better manager, it's that simple, that black and white. Ye wont consider for a second that we got a much harder draw with Walsh. Ye continue to try and make him out to be a bad manager which is a bit pathetic and unfair. Ye show no respect to Galway or to Walsh. Which at this stage, is honestly something I'm not surprised to see, ye'll do and say anything to make these players look bad, rather then accept the fact that we were beaten by the better team who are on the rise. I mean is it that hard to accept?

[orangeman]

I said he made the right decision most of the time. He made the call to go with experience over argueably the better players. But that was his call, he knew the team, he knew how they were training. He made the call, he didn't really have much choice as he didn't have enough time to make the team his own. If he had been there from the start, that we had all proper winter training, all the League..etc. Then I think he should have gone with the younger players. But at the end of the day he probably felt that the younger players weren't ready, Brian Murphy was just back..etc. So there wasn't much choice then to play the old guard and trust them. To be honest, like I'm sure I said, Walsh just wanted the season to be over with all ready so he could start to build towards next season.
He had two years Gerald made the same mistakes over and over again. Against Galway we were beaten by the better team. Against KK way back, his decisions were so infuriating, I mean the game style he made the team play was ancient and it played right into KK's plans, he made stupid decisions when it came to making subs, and he never learned. Walsh has got good ideas and plans, and he's brought in young players to key positions and with more time he'll have much more of an impact. And for the first time in 2 years the team looks to be moving forward. If you can't see why, well that's your problem, because clearly you're not going to accept Walsh, or see how bad a manager Gerald was. Ye wont even give him a chance, which says a lot about ye really. Ye keep, I don't know what to call it, boasting I suppose, that Gerald was manager when we got to a semi and Walsh didn't which means, no question about it Gerald was a better manager, it's that simple, that black and white. Ye wont consider for a second that we got a much harder draw with Walsh. Ye continue to try and make him out to be a bad manager which is a bit pathetic and unfair. Ye show no respect to Galway or to Walsh. Which at this stage, is honestly something I'm not surprised to see, ye'll do and say anything to make these players look bad.

Wlash wanted the season over with ?? You can't be serious about that OMG.

Moving foward ?? That's funny. Do you mean that Wlash is going to get rid if the lads that you say are past it ??


You keep on saying that Cork got harder opposition last year. Did you play Galway in Thurles last year ??