McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

And I never said we would be. And I lost the sense ofhumour about 200 pages ago with people like om on here. It stopped being funny and became infuriating.

[Reillers]

I see ye are at it again Reillers according to the RTE web page?
http://www.fennetec.com/strike.html

Sorry, all I saw was ye are at it again and thought you were on about my posts above..just saw the other half of the post. 
We can't be held responsible for every bloody strike now can we Bud.

[heffo]

Reillers very few of those players are better than ours. We're nowhere in relation to kilkenny. Five years from now I confidently predict you'll be nowhere too. Once the O Connors, Kenny and Gardiner go -its goodnight Irene as regards all-irelands . You simply don't have the volume to compete with the cats. I've seen them all Reillers. I saw a challenge between the full whack Cork u21's and dublin u21's last year in dublin for example. Cork won by about 4 points. I remarked to my colleague beside me- neither of these teams will do anything in the championship- I was dead right and that was a dublin team that had beaten the cats at minor level.

I'm involved from u14 up - i've no involvement beyond the development teams anymore- i see our lads at the u14 tony forristal and arrabawn tournament at u16 level and the u17 all-ireland as well. Its one way traffic for kilkenny and tipp in future years. Its depressing watching tipp beat everyone by 20 points at underage level. We've been in the u16 final and the u17 all-ireland finals in the last 2 years and still can't get within double figures of Tipp in either final.

Reillers explain to me having not won a minor all-ireland since 2001 and an u21 since 1998 how you expect to beat kilkenny and tipp in the coming years. Not going to happen. You haven't 15 shane o neills- you've got one.
The only chance you have is if munster rugby disappeared. and its likely to get stronger not weaker.

And when KK loose the likes of Shefflin they'll be in trouble.

The difference being that KK won minor, U21, Inter & Senior AI's this year

[INDIANA]

Waits for the yerra defence. It was all a fluke.

[Reillers]

Never not once have i said anything about Kk underage. All I said is that they'll miss shefflin and co when they are gone but shock horror ye put words into my mouth yet again because apparently ye think ye've the right to misquote and paraphrase me all ye like.

[heffo]

All I said is that they'll miss shefflin and co when they are gone but shock horror ye put words into my mouth yet again because apparently ye think ye've the right to misquote and paraphrase me all ye like.

Reillers will you stop feeling sorry for yourself and stick to the issues.

Indiana made the point that Tipp have a conveyor belt of talent coming through - which has resulted in 2 x Minor AI's in three years, an NFL & a Munster title - he also said that Cork have no talent coming through as evidenced by their results at underage level - hence he claims Cork will struggle once the current batch retire in the next couple of years.

You made the point that KK will struggle when Sheflin goes - but I countered the KK won the clean sweep last year and as such have fresh talent coming through.

[Reillers]

All I said is that they'll miss shefflin and co when they are gone but shock horror ye put words into my mouth yet again because apparently ye think ye've the right to misquote and paraphrase me all ye like.

Reillers will you stop feeling sorry for yourself and stick to the issues.

Indiana made the point that Tipp have a conveyor belt of talent coming through - which has resulted in 2 x Minor AI's in three years, an NFL & a Munster title - he also said that Cork have no talent coming through as evidenced by their results at underage level - hence he claims Cork will struggle once the current batch retire in the next couple of years.

You made the point that KK will struggle when Sheflin goes - but I countered the KK won the clean sweep last year and as such have fresh talent coming through.

Oh grand so Heffo I'll start misquoting you and paraphrasing you over and over again and then when you make the point that it's been done I'll tell ya to suck it up.
Clearly some think they are above the rules.

I said Shefflin will be a loss to KK like the O Connors and co will be to Cork.
Indy apparently has seen half..no wait..eh..all of the Cork players I've mentioned against..eh.. some underage Dublin team there. He says there's no talent coming threw, which is bullshit, there's players there, but for some reason or another ye wont believe that the players are there but the structures are not (I don't know why that's so hard to believe seeing as it's one of the biggest problems with the CCB and it's been brought up by the clubs, players and Croke Park themselves.) No structuers mean that the players, result wise can only get so far.
Cork won Munster last year in the minors and should have beaten Galway in the semi, ask any Cork man who saw it why and they'll tell you that it was for the same reason that the U21s played the most disgraceful game that Cork has seen in a long time..they simply didn't try or fight, or even attempt to win.
I'll be told it's bullshit again, but ye don't know none of ye have seen them play, yet everyone has an opinion that is right. Ye say that I think I'm right and no one else opinion matters. Maybe just maybe mine, someone who has seen these lads play constantly might be more well positioned to make comment about them then someone who's seen them once play an underage Dublin team.
But no, anything but admit that I was right.

[heffo]

All I said is that they'll miss shefflin and co when they are gone but shock horror ye put words into my mouth yet again because apparently ye think ye've the right to misquote and paraphrase me all ye like.

Reillers will you stop feeling sorry for yourself and stick to the issues.

Indiana made the point that Tipp have a conveyor belt of talent coming through - which has resulted in 2 x Minor AI's in three years, an NFL & a Munster title - he also said that Cork have no talent coming through as evidenced by their results at underage level - hence he claims Cork will struggle once the current batch retire in the next couple of years.

You made the point that KK will struggle when Sheflin goes - but I countered the KK won the clean sweep last year and as such have fresh talent coming through.

Oh grand so Heffo I'll start misquoting you and paraphrasing you over and over again and then when you make the point that it's been done I'll tell ya to suck it up.
Clearly some think they are above the rules.

I said Shefflin will be a loss to KK like the O Connors and co will be to Cork.
Indy apparently has seen half..no wait..eh..all of the Cork players I've mentioned against..eh.. some underage Dublin team there. He says there's no talent coming threw, which is bullshit, there's players there, but for some reason or another ye wont believe that the players are there but the structures are not (I don't know why that's so hard to believe seeing as it's one of the biggest problems with the CCB and it's been brought up by the clubs, players and Croke Park themselves.) No structuers mean that the players, result wise can only get so far.
Cork won Munster last year in the minors and should have beaten Galway in the semi, ask any Cork man who saw it why and they'll tell you that it was for the same reason that the U21s played the most disgraceful game that Cork has seen in a long time..they simply didn't try or fight, or even attempt to win.
I'll be told it's bullshit again, but ye don't know none of ye have seen them play, yet everyone has an opinion that is right. Ye say that I think I'm right and no one else opinion matters. Maybe just maybe mine, someone who has seen these lads play constantly might be more well positioned to make comment about them then someone who's seen them once play an underage Dublin team.
But no, anything but admit that I was right.

There you go again going off on a tangent.

You seem to be basing your view of Cork's current standing around games they 'should have won' and ' we would have a good underage teams but for xyz'

The fact remains that you've had no recent success at underage level - I can't see why you have difficulty accepting your counties current standing - no other poster appears as delusional..

[INDIANA]

The backdoor in the minor championship has negated the importance of the minor provincial championships. dublin won 2 out the last 4 leinster minor titles and still didn't win an all-ireland. There was a fundamental reason for that- they weren't good enough. And Cork were the same Reillers. Just not quite good enough.
If you've a county winning all all-irelands all in the one year they are going to be a force at senior. Henry shefflin was a nobody until he was 20. If any county will ever be able to replace a henry shefflin it will be kilkenny.
Cork need to find 5/6 Ben O Connors- quick. Whether they can time till tell. But in my opinion Cork won't be able to match kilkenny in the next decade.
I don't kniow who is going to stop kilkenny. Only Tipp can in my view. If they can't the hurling championship is going to be pretty boring in years to come.

[Reillers]

All I said is that they'll miss shefflin and co when they are gone but shock horror ye put words into my mouth yet again because apparently ye think ye've the right to misquote and paraphrase me all ye like.

Reillers will you stop feeling sorry for yourself and stick to the issues.

Indiana made the point that Tipp have a conveyor belt of talent coming through - which has resulted in 2 x Minor AI's in three years, an NFL & a Munster title - he also said that Cork have no talent coming through as evidenced by their results at underage level - hence he claims Cork will struggle once the current batch retire in the next couple of years.

You made the point that KK will struggle when Sheflin goes - but I countered the KK won the clean sweep last year and as such have fresh talent coming through.

Oh grand so Heffo I'll start misquoting you and paraphrasing you over and over again and then when you make the point that it's been done I'll tell ya to suck it up.
Clearly some think they are above the rules.

I said Shefflin will be a loss to KK like the O Connors and co will be to Cork.
Indy apparently has seen half..no wait..eh..all of the Cork players I've mentioned against..eh.. some underage Dublin team there. He says there's no talent coming threw, which is bullshit, there's players there, but for some reason or another ye wont believe that the players are there but the structures are not (I don't know why that's so hard to believe seeing as it's one of the biggest problems with the CCB and it's been brought up by the clubs, players and Croke Park themselves.) No structuers mean that the players, result wise can only get so far.
Cork won Munster last year in the minors and should have beaten Galway in the semi, ask any Cork man who saw it why and they'll tell you that it was for the same reason that the U21s played the most disgraceful game that Cork has seen in a long time..they simply didn't try or fight, or even attempt to win.
I'll be told it's bullshit again, but ye don't know none of ye have seen them play, yet everyone has an opinion that is right. Ye say that I think I'm right and no one else opinion matters. Maybe just maybe mine, someone who has seen these lads play constantly might be more well positioned to make comment about them then someone who's seen them once play an underage Dublin team.
But no, anything but admit that I was right.

There you go again going off on a tangent.

You seem to be basing your view of Cork's current standing around games they 'should have won' and ' we would have a good underage teams but for xyz'

The fact remains that you've had no recent success at underage level - I can't see why you have difficulty accepting your counties current standing - no other poster appears as delusional..

And surprise surprise my post wasn't answered.
I know we haven't been succesfull at underage level but we have the players.
Now yes or no, would I who has seen the Cork lads actually play be in a better position to judge them then lets say you or Indy?
We have the players but not the structures and that is what is stopping us from getting over the final hurdle.
Now, it's a simple question, who's in a better place to judge. Someone who's seen them play or someone who hasn't?

But no, ye seem hell bent on putting down Cork, it's a bit sad at this stage, you think ye'd find something else to do by now, I guess not though.

[heffo]

All I said is that they'll miss shefflin and co when they are gone but shock horror ye put words into my mouth yet again because apparently ye think ye've the right to misquote and paraphrase me all ye like.

Reillers will you stop feeling sorry for yourself and stick to the issues.

Indiana made the point that Tipp have a conveyor belt of talent coming through - which has resulted in 2 x Minor AI's in three years, an NFL & a Munster title - he also said that Cork have no talent coming through as evidenced by their results at underage level - hence he claims Cork will struggle once the current batch retire in the next couple of years.

You made the point that KK will struggle when Sheflin goes - but I countered the KK won the clean sweep last year and as such have fresh talent coming through.

Oh grand so Heffo I'll start misquoting you and paraphrasing you over and over again and then when you make the point that it's been done I'll tell ya to suck it up.
Clearly some think they are above the rules.

I said Shefflin will be a loss to KK like the O Connors and co will be to Cork.
Indy apparently has seen half..no wait..eh..all of the Cork players I've mentioned against..eh.. some underage Dublin team there. He says there's no talent coming threw, which is bullshit, there's players there, but for some reason or another ye wont believe that the players are there but the structures are not (I don't know why that's so hard to believe seeing as it's one of the biggest problems with the CCB and it's been brought up by the clubs, players and Croke Park themselves.) No structuers mean that the players, result wise can only get so far.
Cork won Munster last year in the minors and should have beaten Galway in the semi, ask any Cork man who saw it why and they'll tell you that it was for the same reason that the U21s played the most disgraceful game that Cork has seen in a long time..they simply didn't try or fight, or even attempt to win.
I'll be told it's bullshit again, but ye don't know none of ye have seen them play, yet everyone has an opinion that is right. Ye say that I think I'm right and no one else opinion matters. Maybe just maybe mine, someone who has seen these lads play constantly might be more well positioned to make comment about them then someone who's seen them once play an underage Dublin team.
But no, anything but admit that I was right.

There you go again going off on a tangent.

You seem to be basing your view of Cork's current standing around games they 'should have won' and ' we would have a good underage teams but for xyz'

The fact remains that you've had no recent success at underage level - I can't see why you have difficulty accepting your counties current standing - no other poster appears as delusional..

And surprise surprise my post wasn't answered.
I know we haven't been succesfull at underage level but we have the players.
Now yes or no, would I who has seen the Cork lads actually play be in a better position to judge them then lets say you or Indy?
We have the players but not the structures and that is what is stopping us from getting over the final hurdle.
Now, it's a simple question, who's in a better place to judge. Someone who's seen them play or someone who hasn't?

But no, ye seem hell bent on putting down Cork, it's a bit sad at this stage, you think ye'd find something else to do by now, I guess not though.

1. What was your question that went unanswered?
2. You may well be best placed to judge (though maybe not the most objective)
3. The proof of the pudding is in the eating - I could spend all day telling you about games the Dublin footballers 'should have' won and how we were the best team on the day, bottom line - we didn't win and thus must accept where we are - same as Cork
4. I'm not hell bent on putting down anyone or any county - we were having a nice discussion about the various standings in AI and which counties will make progress over the next few years, until you began to personalise the debate with anyone who disagreed with you - I hold some of the current panel in complete contempt for reasons of which I'm on the record, but I've no issue with Cork GAA and genuinely believe you've produced some GAA legends such as JBM, Teddy & Ger Man, Christy Ring etc

Please stick to the issue and stop personalising the debate

[Tatler Jack]

We have the players but not the structures and that is what is stopping us from getting over the final hurdle.

Can you elaborate Reillers on what structures are absent at minor and U21 level that stop us from getting over the final hurdle.

[Reillers]

We have the players but not the structures and that is what is stopping us from getting over the final hurdle.

Can you elaborate Reillers on what structures are absent at minor and U21 level that stop us from getting over the final hurdle.

There are f**k all structures at the underage level.
So much so that Croke Park, when they came in with the offer they made, wanted to take it over. It's that bad.
There's been no underage headway made at all in years because FM's too busy trying to get revenge over the senior IC players and when he wasn't doing that he was too busy counting his money and attempting to dictate Cork.

It's so infuriating, you wouldn't mind if we didn't have the players, but we do. They are there and they are being flung off the deep end into the rapids.
Every Cork team is handicaped by the CB, everything has to be done the hard way, drawing blood from a stone seems easier then getting the most simple of rights from this CCB, and every Cork team and every club in Cork will and has suffered because of it, swimming up a river against a current while everyone else is flying by on speed boats. Cork teams have had to fight and knaw and work their asses off to get basic rights and basic things that are taken for granted at other top counties and underage suffers more then anything. And that's just IC level, it's worse at the clubs. The players not playing did a lot of things but one of them was draw attention away from the real issues in Cork at the club and underage level..etc.

As for the U21s/minors, being there or there abouts come AI final day with underage is all you're going to get from these boys until they are given the help and structure that's needed. That KK and Galway..etc take for granted and don't even have to ask for.

Both loses last season that knocked the U21s and minors out weren't because we lost to a better team it was because, epsecially at the U21 game against Clare, ask any Cork man who's seen it, because they simply didn't try. It was THE most disgraceful preformance I've seen from a Cork team in a long time and very much reflects the standard of the set up at underage level that they've been dragged threw. The excuse of a lot of the players were involved in the Galway game the day before was flung around, but it's bull, they didn't even try.
It's is rotten to the core.
I wouldn't mind if we lost because we weren't good enough and I'd have no problem admiting that because things come in circles, teams form and dominance being one of them, but it wasn't to do with talent or form. It was their attitude. The fact that they'd been involved in the win over Galway was one thing, but it was no excuse at all for the disgraceful way they represented themselves on the pitch. Say what you like about the Cork senior lads off the pitch but they have always given 100% on the field. The same can't be said at Minor or U21 level last season. And it's sinfull. They simply didn't fight.

Ye (ironically people who haven't seen them play consistantly over the years, I'm sorry one game doesn't count.) feel ye are in a better place then me to judge them, though I've no problem at all saying whether a player is up to it or not. But no ye don't seem to believe that either.

Cork have the players, they mightn't have won anything for a while but they've always been competitive and there or there abouts for the final. They don't have the support or the help or the set up that the likes of the KK or Galway players do.
Cork will always have players because the amount of players that play, but they'd be 100 times better if FM got off his ass and did something about the way in which he ignores the underage levels.
A centre of excellence they're setting up apparently after who, oh yes the players, suggested it.
I'm sure it'll get there some time this decade.

I'm ready for a number of people (who haven't a clue at all about senior IC hurling in Cork, never mind at underage level to say, though with no knowledge of it at all, that what I've just said is bullshit.

The sky would be the limit if they were well selected and coached.
For example, Joe Jordan, he's starting on Sunday against Kilkenny, was on fire with his club and with his college and yet for some unknown reason he wasn't getting picked at U21 level.

One point worth making, despite the lack of minor and u21 All-Irelands, actual trophies, the teams are competitve, our minor teams have been in every Munster final since 2000. They were in the AI semi final in 07, I think and were in the semi last season.
The Cork U21s won Munster in 2007, 2005, were runners up in 2003, 2004 and 2006.
The players are there and they are challenging but there is only so much one team can do when they are badly run, when the entire system is rotten to the core.

[heffo]

We have the players but not the structures and that is what is stopping us from getting over the final hurdle.

Can you elaborate Reillers on what structures are absent at minor and U21 level that stop us from getting over the final hurdle.

There are f**k all structures at the underage level.
So much so that Croke Park, when they came in with the offer they made, wanted to take it over. It's that bad.

I can clarify with 100% clarity that that is bullshi* - I have an impeccable source in Croke park mgt.

[Reillers]

Before you call me a liar again Heffo maybe do your research. In the settlement, in the offer Croke Park made when trying to get an agreement, part of what they wanted to do was come in and be effectively taking over the strategic administration of Gaelic games in Cork. It was like appointing an administrator or receiver to manage the county, which very much included the underage set up.