McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

Dowling you questioned the credibility of the Nemo vote.
And those questioning the Nemo vote in general.
This is a post from a Nemo member from PROC..

Thought I'd clear a few things up about the Nemo meeting last night. First off, the crowd there was unreal, you couldn't get a parking spot and for those of you who have been to Trabeg you'll have noticed parking in never an issue! I'd also like to point out early that we have no problem in our vote results coming out in the public domain, part of the sickness in Cork GAA is the "behind closed doors" (bunker!) attitude. We want to show other clubs this is how we feel, and as one esteemed member put it "help gather momentum because enough is enough".

This meeting was incredible. Members spoke passionately about the rotten core of Cork GAA, how it was let fester for too long, and how at last it was time to come together as the grassroots and stand up and be counted. I had expected some pro-board or pro-GerMC sentiment but none was forthcoming. Even the lads who would be against everything (every club has at least 1!) spoke vehemently against the Board Exec, and outlined incident after incident of how they have come down against us as a club. People have mentioned Billy in previous posts, he near brought me to tears the way he spoke. I want this brought to the public domain as Billy stated "I see that the Board are saying the outgoing manager always has first refusal. Well I didn't have first refusal. Frank Murphy went on hols and told Mick Dolan to ring me to say I wasn't needed anymore." This is a damning indictment and a clear example of CCBLaw.

The two motions proposed were and to be taken by secret ballot. These were the ones issued by the '08 hurlers. One was a motion of No Confidence in GMc as manager and the other was that 'Delegates must seek instruction from their club as regards voting on issues other than the mundane (fixtures,venues, times etc.). The No Confidence vote was carried 185-0 with 3 spoiled votes. The delegate vote went 168-17 (3 spoiled). This in itself carries a lot of weight and it points out our unity on this issue.

A proposal came from the floor from a member who have given over 60 years to Nemo. This proposal would be that Nemo write to CCB requesting a special convention and criticising the Board as their actions have brought Cork GAA into disrepute. Another speaker went further requesting an idependant investigation into all CCB Exec activities. The proposal was seconded and a show of hands vote was taken. I did not see one hand left down.

Finally, the issue of the footballers was brought up. Let me make this clear as this was the message in the room. We, as Nemo, will stand by our players should they go on strike. We will NOT supply and development squad with players.

Lads, I dunno if I've been able to put in words the emotion that was in that room last night but all I'll say is on leaving that room, I've never been as proud to be a Nemo man.
We've made our position clear and so the question is, who else is with us?

Roll on Sunday.

[heffo]

Dowling you questioned the credibility of the Nemo vote.
And those questioning the Nemo vote in general.
This is a post from gubbo, a Nemo member from PROC..

Thought I'd clear a few things up about the Nemo meeting last night. First off, the crowd there was unreal, you couldn't get a parking spot and for those of you who have been to Trabeg you'll have noticed parking in never an issue! I'd also like to point out early that we have no problem in our vote results coming out in the public domain, part of the sickness in Cork GAA is the "behind closed doors" (bunker!) attitude. We want to show other clubs this is how we feel, and as one esteemed member put it "help gather momentum because enough is enough".

This meeting was incredible. Members spoke passionately about the rotten core of Cork GAA, how it was let fester for too long, and how at last it was time to come together as the grassroots and stand up and be counted. I had expected some pro-board or pro-GerMC sentiment but none was forthcoming. Even the lads who would be against everything (every club has at least 1!) spoke vehemently against the Board Exec, and outlined incident after incident of how they have come down against us as a club. People have mentioned Billy in previous posts, he near brought me to tears the way he spoke. I want this brought to the public domain as Billy stated "I see that the Board are saying the outgoing manager always has first refusal. Well I didn't have first refusal. Frank Murphy went on hols and told Mick Dolan to ring me to say I wasn't needed anymore." This is a damning indictment and a clear example of CCBLaw.

The two motions proposed were and to be taken by secret ballot. These were the ones issued by the '08 hurlers. One was a motion of No Confidence in GMc as manager and the other was that 'Delegates must seek instruction from their club as regards voting on issues other than the mundane (fixtures,venues, times etc.). The No Confidence vote was carried 185-0 with 3 spoiled votes. The delegate vote went 168-17 (3 spoiled). This in itself carries a lot of weight and it points out our unity on this issue.

A proposal came from the floor from a member who have given over 60 years to Nemo. This proposal would be that Nemo write to CCB requesting a special convention and criticising the Board as their actions have brought Cork GAA into disrepute. Another speaker went further requesting an idependant investigation into all CCB Exec activities. The proposal was seconded and a show of hands vote was taken. I did not see one hand left down.

Finally, the issue of the footballers was brought up. Let me make this clear as this was the message in the room. We, as Nemo, will stand by our players should they go on strike. We will NOT supply and development squad with players.

Lads, I dunno if I've been able to put in words the emotion that was in that room last night but all I'll say is on leaving that room, I've never been as proud to be a Nemo man.
We've made our position clear and so the question is, who else is with us?

Roll on Sunday.

Say what you will about Reillers but leave 'Gubbo' out of this.

[Reillers]

Kenny: Clubs hold the key to solving the dispute.

TOM KENNY today
urged all clubs to return
to the Maryborough
Hotel this Sunday to
further discuss the current
Cork crisis.
In recent days a number of
clubs held special meetings on
the impasse, with members
having their say on Gerald
McCarthy's position as 2009
hurling boss, and on the way
in which delegates vote on important
matters.
Nemo last night gave their
backing to the hurlers and a
host of other clubs will hold
meetings between now and
Saturday night.
More than 400 club representatives
attended a fiery
meeting in the Maryborough
Hotel nine days ago, where the
players received almost universal
backing from those in
attendance.
It had been decided at that
meeting, clubs would return
this Sunday to see what the
next step in this saga will be.
It's very much unchartered
waters for clubs and the players,
as backing for the 2008
hurling panel could be viewed
as a vote of no confidence in
the board executive itself,
while board chairman Jerry
O'Sullivan has repeatedly
stated they won't take any
more motions on the issue.
Kenny believes the clubs
still hold the key.
"We're looking for the support
of the clubs and hopefully
there will be as big a turnout
as the last day. We'd like clubs
to come back with the ballot
results on the motions on
club-headed paper and signed
by the club officers.
"They should include mobile
numbers and club
members with them, state whether
the club is senior, intermediate
or junior, and bring the
results in an envelope with
the club name on the outside."
Kenny is hoping the board's
insistence any club meetings
"have no standing in rule",
won't dissuade clubs from attending.
"There was a positive response
from clubs and they
were interested in coming
again. Clubs that
were not there the last
time, we'd like them
to come as well.
"Whether it's
good news or
bad news, we
want to hear
from them.
There was 150
to 160 clubs
represneted at the last meeting,
which was a fantastic
turnout."
Kenny insisted that if the
club ballots go against the
players, they accept their decision.
"We said we'd live and die
by the sword. If it comes back
against us, it does that. But we
hope clubs can see where
we're coming from."
He also stated the views of
ordinary club members must
be acknowledged.
"When you've
people marching on
the street, voices
have to be heard.
The club members
that support us
feel they are not
getting their voice
heard. 10,000
people protesting
is a testament that
people aren't lying down."
More GAA P62

[Reillers]

Blame
the
Evening
Echo.

 

[Reillers]

Cork crisis nearing end game

on 03/03/2009 20:16:32

The ongoing Cork hurling crisis will not figure prominently when the GAA's Management Committee convenes on Thursday evening, despite the likelihood of a series of meetings in the county this weekend bringing the matter to a head.

Over the coming days, the striking 2008 panel will look to solidify the support of clubs across the county for their efforts to remove Gerald McCarthy as manager and overhaul the delegate county board system.

Although Cork county board chairman Jerry O'Sullivan has repeatedly stated he won't take any more motions on the issue, it has emerged that the Clonakilty club have invited chairmen from all junior, intermediate and senior clubs to attend a meeting in their Community Hall on Friday evening, for a joint discussion on the issue.

The striking players will not be present at the meeting.

By the time the players meet the club representatives on Sunday, at Maryborough House Hotel, there should be a much clearer indication as to the lie of the land, but it now seems likely they will be backed by the clubs.

The players maintain they will disband if they do not get the support they seek.

Whatever the outcome of the weekend's events, and after two unsuccessful attempts to bring about a solution, the GAA appears satisfied to allow those in Cork resolve the issue themselves.

A second march in support of the panel is planned for Sunday and will meet at Kennedy Park next to Pairc Ui Chaoimh at 2pm, before marching to the grounds just prior to the National Football League game against Fermanagh.

An estimated 10,000 people attended a protest march in Cork city centre on February 7th.

[dowling]

Re

So your club is anti 2008 panel Reillers. Why didn't you just say that instead of GAA wasting his time and energy? The tide hasn't turned where you are in spite of your 'call to arms'. Why should it have turned anywhere else so badly? And would you think Nemo is a GPA club, with the footballers and that?

This just highlights how polarised the argument is on both sides.

One unnamed club is assumed to be behind the CB therefore that is conculsive proof of their piety.

One named club is against the CB but that is proof of treachery & skulduggery.

Dowling that is not an argument.

As for Reillers, posting how well the 2008 lads are training is about as pertinent to the Championship as telling us how well Christy Ring is hurling in the great Croke Park in the sky.

My natural disposition towards meetings where every little thing that might threaten the chair gets ruled out of order means I don't believe the powers that be quite have the real power they think they have. You see any challenge to that power can be ruled out of order. But equally I think the ordinary Gaa punter has completely lost his/her patience with this squad of hurlers.

All revolutions start small and I don't think this should be allowed to continue much longer. Allowing a 2nd,3rd or 4th string does nothing for the Gaa at all. If the players strike/retire etc the rest of the Gaa should throw them out of all competitions until they resolve their differences.

I understand where you're coming from Muppet and maybe reillers delay in answering and GAA and Zulu projecting a different meaning clouded the question and eventual response. And I say response because it's not an answer. Frank Murphy controls the county and now also one person controls reiller's club. Could this also be Frank Murphy? Here's what reillers said and remember this on the back of continually telling us that the tide had turned in favour of the 2008 panel.

"I mean the opinions split, the SGM has been shot down because of a praticular member wont say who..not the nicest person you'll ever meet. If a certain someone has his way it'll probably go against the players because of his antics, motions thrown out because of being incorectly worded and crap like that. But that's as much to be said really for now. The SGM's been delayed all ready.
If it was called now of the genuine club members it'd probably get the backing for the players. But I don't know.
It's split because despite having a certain character at the club we also have two IC players as well."

There's no definte answer in that but I'm inclined to believe reillers is putting a spin on the situation and I'd be very surprised going by what he said previously so many pages back and how he's addressed this if the 2008 panel could expect support from his club. The only reasonable  conclusion to be made in any of this and to which you alluded is that the county is bitterly split and it's not 90 - 10 either way, it's split down the middle and to be honest there's no real way of knowing who has how much support. But what reillers, taking his lead from the 2008 panel has done is put a spin on the support issue. For instance according to him the panel's meeting with club chairmen couldn't have gone better. Yet what do we really know about the meeting? Very little. But we do know that a percentage there didn't support the panel and a large percentage of clubs weren't even represented.
And that's what's been going on all along. And if you're dealing in spin you're not dealing with the real issues. To try to confront everything reillers was saying I was questiong how he could claim such a big turnaround in support if his own club hadn't even come round to his way of thinking.

As for Nemo I'm just making a point that some clubs because of their nature will automatically be inclined to lean one way or the other and No doubt there will be clubs who will automatically lean against the 2008 panel. It happens in all counties.
And all these points show, not how polarised the arguments are on both sides, but how polarised both sides are in the argument.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, The only way I see this to be resolved satisfactorily for Cork is for the 2008 panel to pull back. That's not because I disagree with them and think they should climb down, I think it's the only way they could hope to get credit from those opposing them and thus limit the bitterness in all this. They can push on and they might win the battle but the war for all Cork has already been lost, it's just a question now of the extent of the casualties.
And I think the panel have inadvertently brought this situation about because they didn't think their strike would take long and have just now become entrenched.


"We never had the luxury of a blank sheet where we could plan a strategy or even close to it."  Donal og

Maybe he didn't get an answer because I haven't been on all day. Most clubs were represented Dowling.
You don't know anything about my club Dowling. One man who has a big say at CB level, one of FM's good friend. He tries to run things, at our club it wouldn't matter what 90% of what our club think, we've got two young but established IC players. But that one man, if he's got anything to do with it, will not back the players. Good that the ground seems to be breaking off under his feet.

There's no spin on anything.  

Spin is telling us that 12000 protesters were mostly shoppers
Or that there was more then 1000 at the game, but easily counted there was only 600.
600 apparently according to CB spin is an average attendance to a League game. I've never seen such a small crowd at a League game.
The PR machine experts.

There's no spin. A certain member of my club has his own agenda, there is a twisted logic to his thinking.
If he has his way, well lets just say doesn't have the highest opinion of the players.
He, like FM is living in the past.

That is why it's split to an extent. But it's one of about 4 clubs.

There's no spin.

It's not my club, it's one man with a lot of power, thankfully the ground is falling from underneath his feet.

Now who's putting spin on it, Nemo, one of the biggest, most respected clubs in the county vote for the players like a long list of clubs have and you dismiss it and put spin on it because there most be a reason other then that they all back the players, there most be some sort of reasoning behind that.

So the only way this will be solved is if the panel pull back. Why should they, why not the CB, who let the clubs have no say, who had 12000 on the street against them, that have over 400 people at the meeting against them, that are the main reason as to why SGMs are being held in nearly every club up and down the county.
A CB that does not represent the people.
Why should the players pull back on that. If they let the CB win the clubs will be silenced for years to come, because no one will stand up to the CB like the players have.

Your point there at the end, where you say that they didn't think this would take that long, could that be because it shouldn't have taken this long. Any other CB in the country would have had the thing resolved in weeks, not like any other CB in the country would let this, never mind be responsible for this, to happen.
But then Donal Og's quote, they didn't have time to think it through.

Oh and Dowling you proved just why I didn't want to tell you anything about my club because after what I said you some how managed to get out of it that they were anti player which is bullshit. You did it to completley undermine me and it's what you were looking for, you said it, despite what I said and don't give me I misunderstood you, you did it to undermine me and that's the last time I answer something like that to you if you keep on twisting what I say to suit you.
[/quote]





Reillers from I have joined this board I've had to put up with insulting language and a 'know all' attitude from yourself and another few posters of a similar view to you. Indeed others have had to put up with it as well. And you continually misrepresent what I write. I had put this down as not bothering to read my posts properly but it's now apparent it's intentional; every post I write couldn't be misread.
Now I'm not going to get into a personal argument with you and wont be flinging insults your way, I'll leave that to yourself, but at least try to be honest if you want to debate the issue.

Firstly somewhere on this board around the time I joined you conceded your club wasn't behind the 2008 panel. If you can't now say it is it's not out of place to assume it still isn't.

As for Nemo, I've no doubts about the result of their vote and there was no spin on it but I've no doubt there will be clubs of a strong opposing view and I made the point that because of that it shows a polarised county. Nemo's leanings towards football with county players who might also have to strike may have been a factor in influencing thinking. No big slight on Nemo in any of those remarks.

And wrong again I didn't say the only way to solve this matter was for the 2008 panel to pull back. What I said was for the matter to be resolved satisfactorily for Cork was for the panel to pull back and I explained why that was so.
If there is the support you claim there is then that support should be able to carry the due processes of the county to the same end the panel wants, it will just take longer, but the bitterness this is all causing will be lessened.

You seem to be oblivious to the bitterness in spite of mentioning agro in pubs. For myself, and I would guess other posters on here as well as GAA people involved in this dispute, that bitterness is now the over-riding factor. There is no measure of support, in that there are no figures to produce, one way or the other yet in spite of all your claims and news articles but even if the panel have the majority support in the clubs how much does the majority need to be? Is a 5% majority enough to justify all this? Or does it have to be more or will less do.

I have no doubt Dessie Farrel's statement about winners and losers was well calculated to add pressure. What concern has he ever shown for Cork? As he said before the responsibility of the GPA is to its members and Donal og at least is one. However the only losers are Cork GAA in particular and the wider GAA in general. There's been no recognition of this from the 2008 panel or you and others with your view on here. It's all for the good of Cork! Well if what's happening to Cork is good I'd hate to see something bad happening! Some of us can see there needs to be a pull back, not a surrender even if we don't approve of the panel's actions.
You see you have to look at potential consequences and where all this is going. Say the 2008 panel get 80% support from clubs and on the back of that win their fight and Gerald goes. What else has to happen? Frank Murphy's position isn't clear because he's a salaried official but what about the other officers? Surely their positions become untenable. So logically Jerry Osullivan, even though there was no issue with him initially, would have to go. Make things quite interesting in the Osullivan household. That's just one example but just to point out this doesn't any longer stop with Gerald. How far has the panel's thinking gone on this and how far has yours or is it a question you don't care, it's win at all costs.

"Your point there at the end, where you say that they didn't think this would take that long, could that be because it shouldn't have taken this long. Any other CB in the country would have had the thing resolved in weeks, not like any other CB in the country would let this, never mind be responsible for this, to happen.
But then Donal Og's quote, they didn't have time to think it through."

That's the whole point reillers they didn't think it through and I would guess that a good few of the boys on the 2008 panel wouldn't have bought into this strike if they'd thought it was going to get this bad, setting member against member, player against player and club against club. It also underlines the conclusion that for those who initiated this strike, the panel's leaders and thinkers, it was never about the greater good of Cork, it was simply about the panel getting their own way, or to be more precise the leaders getting their own way.




Lastly this whole thing about Cork county board being unique shows a lack of knowledge or acceptance that the problems that exist there exist in all counties and at all levels. Indeed you referred to your own club as having a similar problem.
As for Frank, thirty years secretary and been the biggest b**tard since Pontius Pilot. In all that time he has never spent any selfless hours above and beyond those his salary covers working for the good of Cork GAA? But sure all's fair in love and war. Vilify him and drag his name through the gutter, something similar to Gerald, that's the way we do things in Cork and count the casualties we leave in our wake.

But sure that's just like those who support the 2008 panel on this board, just insult people and misrepresent them when they disagree or ask awkward or mind provoking questions.

[Reillers]

Re

So your club is anti 2008 panel Reillers. Why didn't you just say that instead of GAA wasting his time and energy? The tide hasn't turned where you are in spite of your 'call to arms'. Why should it have turned anywhere else so badly? And would you think Nemo is a GPA club, with the footballers and that?

This just highlights how polarised the argument is on both sides.

One unnamed club is assumed to be behind the CB therefore that is conculsive proof of their piety.

One named club is against the CB but that is proof of treachery & skulduggery.

Dowling that is not an argument.

As for Reillers, posting how well the 2008 lads are training is about as pertinent to the Championship as telling us how well Christy Ring is hurling in the great Croke Park in the sky.

My natural disposition towards meetings where every little thing that might threaten the chair gets ruled out of order means I don't believe the powers that be quite have the real power they think they have. You see any challenge to that power can be ruled out of order. But equally I think the ordinary Gaa punter has completely lost his/her patience with this squad of hurlers.

All revolutions start small and I don't think this should be allowed to continue much longer. Allowing a 2nd,3rd or 4th string does nothing for the Gaa at all. If the players strike/retire etc the rest of the Gaa should throw them out of all competitions until they resolve their differences.

I understand where you're coming from Muppet and maybe reillers delay in answering and GAA and Zulu projecting a different meaning clouded the question and eventual response. And I say response because it's not an answer. Frank Murphy controls the county and now also one person controls reiller's club. Could this also be Frank Murphy? Here's what reillers said and remember this on the back of continually telling us that the tide had turned in favour of the 2008 panel.

"I mean the opinions split, the SGM has been shot down because of a praticular member wont say who..not the nicest person you'll ever meet. If a certain someone has his way it'll probably go against the players because of his antics, motions thrown out because of being incorectly worded and crap like that. But that's as much to be said really for now. The SGM's been delayed all ready.
If it was called now of the genuine club members it'd probably get the backing for the players. But I don't know.
It's split because despite having a certain character at the club we also have two IC players as well."

There's no definte answer in that but I'm inclined to believe reillers is putting a spin on the situation and I'd be very surprised going by what he said previously so many pages back and how he's addressed this if the 2008 panel could expect support from his club. The only reasonable  conclusion to be made in any of this and to which you alluded is that the county is bitterly split and it's not 90 - 10 either way, it's split down the middle and to be honest there's no real way of knowing who has how much support. But what reillers, taking his lead from the 2008 panel has done is put a spin on the support issue. For instance according to him the panel's meeting with club chairmen couldn't have gone better. Yet what do we really know about the meeting? Very little. But we do know that a percentage there didn't support the panel and a large percentage of clubs weren't even represented.
And that's what's been going on all along. And if you're dealing in spin you're not dealing with the real issues. To try to confront everything reillers was saying I was questiong how he could claim such a big turnaround in support if his own club hadn't even come round to his way of thinking.

As for Nemo I'm just making a point that some clubs because of their nature will automatically be inclined to lean one way or the other and No doubt there will be clubs who will automatically lean against the 2008 panel. It happens in all counties.
And all these points show, not how polarised the arguments are on both sides, but how polarised both sides are in the argument.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, The only way I see this to be resolved satisfactorily for Cork is for the 2008 panel to pull back. That's not because I disagree with them and think they should climb down, I think it's the only way they could hope to get credit from those opposing them and thus limit the bitterness in all this. They can push on and they might win the battle but the war for all Cork has already been lost, it's just a question now of the extent of the casualties.
And I think the panel have inadvertently brought this situation about because they didn't think their strike would take long and have just now become entrenched.


"We never had the luxury of a blank sheet where we could plan a strategy or even close to it."  Donal og

Maybe he didn't get an answer because I haven't been on all day. Most clubs were represented Dowling.
You don't know anything about my club Dowling. One man who has a big say at CB level, one of FM's good friend. He tries to run things, at our club it wouldn't matter what 90% of what our club think, we've got two young but established IC players. But that one man, if he's got anything to do with it, will not back the players. Good that the ground seems to be breaking off under his feet.

There's no spin on anything.  

Spin is telling us that 12000 protesters were mostly shoppers
Or that there was more then 1000 at the game, but easily counted there was only 600.
600 apparently according to CB spin is an average attendance to a League game. I've never seen such a small crowd at a League game.
The PR machine experts.

There's no spin. A certain member of my club has his own agenda, there is a twisted logic to his thinking.
If he has his way, well lets just say doesn't have the highest opinion of the players.
He, like FM is living in the past.

That is why it's split to an extent. But it's one of about 4 clubs.

There's no spin.

It's not my club, it's one man with a lot of power, thankfully the ground is falling from underneath his feet.

Now who's putting spin on it, Nemo, one of the biggest, most respected clubs in the county vote for the players like a long list of clubs have and you dismiss it and put spin on it because there most be a reason other then that they all back the players, there most be some sort of reasoning behind that.

So the only way this will be solved is if the panel pull back. Why should they, why not the CB, who let the clubs have no say, who had 12000 on the street against them, that have over 400 people at the meeting against them, that are the main reason as to why SGMs are being held in nearly every club up and down the county.
A CB that does not represent the people.
Why should the players pull back on that. If they let the CB win the clubs will be silenced for years to come, because no one will stand up to the CB like the players have.

Your point there at the end, where you say that they didn't think this would take that long, could that be because it shouldn't have taken this long. Any other CB in the country would have had the thing resolved in weeks, not like any other CB in the country would let this, never mind be responsible for this, to happen.
But then Donal Og's quote, they didn't have time to think it through.

Oh and Dowling you proved just why I didn't want to tell you anything about my club because after what I said you some how managed to get out of it that they were anti player which is bullshit. You did it to completley undermine me and it's what you were looking for, you said it, despite what I said and don't give me I misunderstood you, you did it to undermine me and that's the last time I answer something like that to you if you keep on twisting what I say to suit you.

Reillers from I have joined this board I've had to put up with insulting language and a 'know all' attitude from yourself and another few posters of a similar view to you. Indeed others have had to put up with it as well. And you continually misrepresent what I write. I had put this down as not bothering to read my posts properly but it's now apparent it's intentional; every post I write couldn't be misread.
Now I'm not going to get into a personal argument with you and wont be flinging insults your way, I'll leave that to yourself, but at least try to be honest if you want to debate the issue.

Firstly somewhere on this board around the time I joined you conceded your club wasn't behind the 2008 panel. If you can't now say it is it's not out of place to assume it still isn't.

As for Nemo, I've no doubts about the result of their vote and there was no spin on it but I've no doubt there will be clubs of a strong opposing view and I made the point that because of that it shows a polarised county. Nemo's leanings towards football with county players who might also have to strike may have been a factor in influencing thinking. No big slight on Nemo in any of those remarks.

And wrong again I didn't say the only way to solve this matter was for the 2008 panel to pull back. What I said was for the matter to be resolved satisfactorily for Cork was for the panel to pull back and I explained why that was so.
If there is the support you claim there is then that support should be able to carry the due processes of the county to the same end the panel wants, it will just take longer, but the bitterness this is all causing will be lessened.

You seem to be oblivious to the bitterness in spite of mentioning agro in pubs. For myself, and I would guess other posters on here as well as GAA people involved in this dispute, that bitterness is now the over-riding factor. There is no measure of support, in that there are no figures to produce, one way or the other yet in spite of all your claims and news articles but even if the panel have the majority support in the clubs how much does the majority need to be? Is a 5% majority enough to justify all this? Or does it have to be more or will less do.

I have no doubt Dessie Farrel's statement about winners and losers was well calculated to add pressure. What concern has he ever shown for Cork? As he said before the responsibility of the GPA is to its members and Donal og at least is one. However the only losers are Cork GAA in particular and the wider GAA in general. There's been no recognition of this from the 2008 panel or you and others with your view on here. It's all for the good of Cork! Well if what's happening to Cork is good I'd hate to see something bad happening! Some of us can see there needs to be a pull back, not a surrender even if we don't approve of the panel's actions.

You see you have to look at potential consequences and where all this is going. Say the 2008 panel get 80% support from clubs and on the back of that win their fight and Gerald goes. What else has to happen? Frank Murphy's position isn't clear because he's a salaried official but what about the other officers? Surely their positions become untenable. So logically Jerry Osullivan, even though there was no issue with him initially, would have to go. Make things quite interesting in the Osullivan household. That's just one example but just to point out this doesn't any longer stop with Gerald. How far has the panel's thinking gone on this and how far has yours or is it a question you don't care, it's win at all costs.

"Your point there at the end, where you say that they didn't think this would take that long, could that be because it shouldn't have taken this long. Any other CB in the country would have had the thing resolved in weeks, not like any other CB in the country would let this, never mind be responsible for this, to happen.
But then Donal Og's quote, they didn't have time to think it through."

That's the whole point reillers they didn't think it through and I would guess that a good few of the boys on the 2008 panel wouldn't have bought into this strike if they'd thought it was going to get this bad, setting member against member, player against player and club against club. It also underlines the conclusion that for those who initiated this strike, the panel's leaders and thinkers, it was never about the greater good of Cork, it was simply about the panel getting their own way, or to be more precise the leaders getting their own way.

Lastly this whole thing about Cork county board being unique shows a lack of knowledge or acceptance that the problems that exist there exist in all counties and at all levels. Indeed you referred to your own club as having a similar problem.
As for Frank, thirty years secretary and been the biggest b**tard since Pontius Pilot. In all that time he has never spent any selfless hours above and beyond those his salary covers working for the good of Cork GAA? But sure all's fair in love and war. Vilify him and drag his name through the gutter, something similar to Gerald, that's the way we do things in Cork and count the casualties we leave in our wake.


[/quote]

Never did I say that, show me where and when because when you joined this board I don't even think my club had formed an opinion on this. So show me where and don't give me I don't know. I'm a breath away from calling that a blatant lie unless you can show me otherwise.

There you go again, trying to undermine their opinion and decision. This is a very big club and a very respected club. No club against the likes of Bars and Sarsfield and one or two others in this are one sided.

You said the only way you see it being solved is for the players to pulled back and I gave the reasons why there's no way that should happen.
The support is there, but the CB would rather jump of a cliff then admit that.

Oblivious to the bitterness, there you go again, you've no idea, absolutely no idea what's going on with the Cork public, or where I am, or at my club, stop making presumptions just to suit your arguement. There is biterness, a hell lot of it and nearly all directed to the CB and I don't think you get it or are willing to accept just how much this has turned on it's head because there is massive support to the players. The clubs want their say, their voice, but the CB refuses to give them their rightful say. And we've had to put up with that for years. Don't lecture me on biterness, it's been growing and manifesting itself for years. Don't lecture me on something you can't even begin to understand.

Dessie Farrel, oh here we go again, the GPA conspiracy all over again. I couldn't give a flying hoot what he thinks of Cork.
Donal Og along with the rest of the panel are no longer members, he's said that.
The only loosers are Cork GAA, and the players have recognised how much damage this has and will do. They are the only ones who've said it, the only ones who have stood up to an entire room of press and let themselves be asked any questions from anyone, we're lucky if the written press are  allowed at a CB meeting, and the rare times they are is when FM has something up his sleeve, something planned. Hell you're more likely to see a blue moon then FM on camera, never mind a tv interview. And the players also stood in front of the clubs and left themselves open for anything, any questions or views, and let the decision in the hands of the clubs. The CB have f**k all respect for the clubs opinions and I don't think you  get how much. And the clubs are sick to their teeth of it. They finally, FINALLY are getting organised, all thanks to the players.

This is the part where I could explain it upside down and back to front to you and you still haven't and wont understand.
And you've made it clear you are not even willing to try. This is a  fight that we the clubs and players most win because it's all or nothing now. And grow the hell up, except that this isn't about the "leaders" surely you've more respect for the players and the clubs to think that one or two men could force them into all of this. Stop being so naive and just except it. The clubs went this as badly if not more then the IC players.


Oh they have thought it through forwards and backwards and you are naive to think otherwise, they we naively expecting the CB to do their job and with little warning thrown into making a decision, but don't think for a second that they haven't microscopically thought threw every decision they have made.

Wasn't it you who said the GAA wasn't that flawed and that the problems didn't exist anywhere else but here, apologies if it wasn't but I could have sworn it was you. FM have dragged his name through the gutter all by himself. He has no respect from any self respecting GAA man in Cork. He has done good things for Cork in the past, but he is the biggest disgrace to the county that we've seen in a long time. He thinks he can run it, silence the clubs. But not anymore, the clubs have FINALLY had enough thanks to the players we've gotten organised and we're fighting back. If this means that the players miss out on a year or two of IC hurling then so be it, they are willing to do that and the hurling future will benefit from it.
But sure that's just like those who support the 2008 panel on this board, just insult people and misrepresent them when they disagree or ask awkward or mind provoking questions.

Who's misrepresenting who here Dowling. Because all you have done is ask questions that are clear to the rest of us. Well to the ones who actually know and care about what is going on, not for ones who just come on to whinge and bitch about the GPA or the players.


Stop patronizing me on consequenzes and biterness and hate, you've no idea, you talk like you're right in the middle of it when I don't even think you said what county you were from. Everyone here in Cork are very aware of what could happen and the feelings it leaves behind. The players are willing to sacrifice 2 seasons, in some cases the rest of their careers to see Cork through, to see the future of Cork GAA is safe. Without them the clubs are silent and the CB are fearless.

[dowling]

Good to see the insulting language trimmed back but it's a pity the aggression levels are up.

Does the fact there's "There is agro in pubs and such...." that you refer to that not concern you?

Nickey Brennan has said how this dispute is ripping Cork apart and Sean Kelly likened it to Cork GAA's version of 'The Wind That Shook The Barley'.

Here's what Tomas Mulcahy had to say about this dispute. "

"Will there be winners here if it's sorted? Sadly I say no and the repercussions could be felt for a long time yet to come. ....friendships, personalities and individual characterisation are now to the forefront and will take time to heal if indeed it ever will.
...nobody envisaged that trust, friendships; camaraderie would be sabotaged in this sorry mess. It is them against us and win at all costs at this stage."

Now you can accuse me of not knowing anything if you like but Nickey, Sean andTomas....

And not only does Tomas highlight the bitterness but once again the fact that the 2008 panel had no idea of what they were starting. Give him a call and put him right.


If you're going to tell me I haven't a clue you may as well tell him also.

[orangeman]

To paraphrase Gerald McCarthy's own words late last October when the 2008 hurlers' actions "looked like a strike and smelled like a strike," the movement in Cork club circles this week is beginning to 'look like a revolution and smell like a revolution' with each passing day.

As clubs continued to meet on foot of the request from the 2008 players to consider motions arising from their Maryborough House meeting on Sunday week last, the county's top football club voted almost unanimously to back the players in their quest to have Gerald McCarthy removed as hurling manager.

Nemo Rangers have had a long history of conflict with the Cork County Board, and at their special meeting on Monday night some 169 members out of 188 voted to back the players. There were 17 opposed and two spoiled votes.

And in a separate development, the Clonakilty club in West Cork, also a football stronghold, have invited all clubs in Cork to a special forum on Friday night where those clubs will be given a platform that doesn't involve players or County Board officials.

Independent

Clonakilty also met on Monday night and decided to put the idea of a forum in motion to give clubs an independent opportunity to air their views.

They feel it is imperative to create this forum so the real depth of feeling of Cork clubs can be ascertained.

Clonakilty have not yet made a decision on where their allegiances lie, but the assumption is that they will eventually back the players.

In the meantime, they feel a meeting on Friday night will serve a purpose, even if some believe it could be counter-productive to the forum the players have already established and will return to on Sunday night.

"We want clubs to discuss aspects that don't just pertain to the current hurling management impasse," said Clonakilty PRO Fachtna McCarthy.

"We want to provide a forum, independent of players and County Board, so that clubs can have their say on other issues, like Board representation. There is a lot of dissatisfaction with that and there is a lot of dissatisfaction generally. That is what is coming back to us.

"It's a way of life in Cork GAA that a club taking a motion in to Cork County Board will invariably have that motion ruled out of order or hit by some 'general rule' issue or other. That's the way it has been for many years."

Cork's unique representative tiers at County Board level see up to 164 junior hurling and football affiliates represented by just 16 delegates, two each from the eight divisional boards.

Logistically, Clonakilty's move may not be able to reach its full potential, coming as it does two days before the clubs and the players meet again.

There won't be too much surprise that Nemo, the most decorated club in the country in terms of All-Ireland titles, have backed the players, but the overwhelming margin of approval for what the players are doing is quite staggering.

Nemo has a membership of around 400, so to attract 188 members to a special meeting on one issue surpasses the interest there would normally be in an annual general meeting.

Nemo chairman Liam Twomey, speaking on behalf of the club, said the feeling of the meeting was that it was nothing personal with Gerald McCarthy.

"Gerald McCarthy hasn't done anything on Nemo and we accept that. We just felt that the best solution to the current impasse would be for Gerald to step aside at this point. That's all we're asking," he said.

Billy Morgan, the former Cork football manager, declined to confirm if he spoke fervently in favour of backing the players and if he had taken issue with the Board's view that an outgoing manager gets first refusal.

Change

The executive of Nemo will meet between now on Sunday night, where they propose to make a slight change to the motion put out at the first meeting with the players. It is understood they will seek to soften the wording of the 'no confidence' proposal in McCarthy tabled 10 days ago and to steer it towards a situation where he would step aside at this point for the betterment of Cork hurling.

It has also emerged that the GAA's Management Committee will meet on Thursday to discuss the Cork impasse ahead of the weekend club meeting and the County Board meeting on Tuesday night next when a motion of no confidence is expected to be tabled and a call for a special convention is also likely to be made.

Cork County Board have, however, indicated that it will not entertain any further discussion on McCarthy's position, which has already been to the subject of two votes, the first on the night he was re-appointed in October and the second last month in advance of the players' meeting with the clubs.

- Colm Keys

[orangeman]

Nemo chairman Liam Twomey, speaking on behalf of the club, said the feeling of the meeting was that it was nothing personal with Gerald McCarthy.

"Gerald McCarthy hasn't done anything on Nemo and we accept that. We just felt that the best solution to the current impasse would be for Gerald to step aside at this point. That's all we're asking," he said.

The executive of Nemo will meet between now on Sunday night, where they propose to make a slight change to the motion put out at the first meeting with the players. It is understood they will seek to soften the wording of the 'no confidence' proposal in McCarthy tabled 10 days ago and to steer it towards a situation where he would step aside at this point for the betterment of Cork hurling.

[The GAA]

Thought I'd clear a few things up about the Nemo meeting last night. First off, the crowd there was unreal, you couldn't get a parking spot and for those of you who have been to Trabeg you'll have noticed parking in never an issue! I'd also like to point out early that we have no problem in our vote results coming out in the public domain, part of the sickness in Cork GAA is the "behind closed doors" (bunker!) attitude. We want to show other clubs this is how we feel, and as one esteemed member put it "help gather momentum because enough is enough".

This meeting was incredible. Members spoke passionately about the rotten core of Cork GAA, how it was let fester for too long, and how at last it was time to come together as the grassroots and stand up and be counted. I had expected some pro-board or pro-GerMC sentiment but none was forthcoming. Even the lads who would be against everything (every club has at least 1!) spoke vehemently against the Board Exec, and outlined incident after incident of how they have come down against us as a club. People have mentioned Billy in previous posts, he near brought me to tears the way he spoke. I want this brought to the public domain as Billy stated "I see that the Board are saying the outgoing manager always has first refusal. Well I didn't have first refusal. Frank Murphy went on hols and told Mick Dolan to ring me to say I wasn't needed anymore." This is a damning indictment and a clear example of CCBLaw.

The two motions proposed were and to be taken by secret ballot. These were the ones issued by the '08 hurlers. One was a motion of No Confidence in GMc as manager and the other was that 'Delegates must seek instruction from their club as regards voting on issues other than the mundane (fixtures,venues, times etc.). The No Confidence vote was carried 185-0 with 3 spoiled votes. The delegate vote went 168-17 (3 spoiled). This in itself carries a lot of weight and it points out our unity on this issue.

A proposal came from the floor from a member who have given over 60 years to Nemo. This proposal would be that Nemo write to CCB requesting a special convention and criticising the Board as their actions have brought Cork GAA into disrepute. Another speaker went further requesting an idependant investigation into all CCB Exec activities. The proposal was seconded and a show of hands vote was taken. I did not see one hand left down.

Finally, the issue of the footballers was brought up. Let me make this clear as this was the message in the room. We, as Nemo, will stand by our players should they go on strike. We will NOT supply and development squad with players.

Lads, I dunno if I've been able to put in words the emotion that was in that room last night but all I'll say is on leaving that room, I've never been as proud to be a Nemo man.
We've made our position clear and so the question is, who else is with us?

Roll on Sunday

Sums the situation up for me.I wait with baited breath for dowling's predicted mirror image in support of th county board and McCarthy from a club somewhere.

As for Frank, thirty years secretary and been the biggest b**tard since Pontius Pilot. In all that time he has never spent any selfless hours above and beyond those his salary covers working for the good of Cork GAA? But sure all's fair in love and war. Vilify him and drag his name through the gutter, something similar to Gerald, that's the way we do things in Cork and count the casualties we leave in our wake.

That's a pathetic defence. we all spend our spare time volunteering for the GAA and doing things that maybe aren't expected of us. that's the way it is. Frank is no better or worse than the rest of us in that regard and to suggest otherwise is insulting. to also suggest that this should be a bigger factor when judging him than his many abuses of power and his distain for the the ordinary working members within clubs in the county, not to mention his wanton manipulation of his mandate to harm the prospects of first the county footballers and now the hurlers is just plain wrong.

But sure that's just like those who support the 2008 panel on this board, just insult people and misrepresent them when they disagree or ask awkward or mind provoking questions.

Quit throwing stones before you break all them windows

[theskull1]

I've just read that the PROC has been taken off air (legal advice) because of comments about FM and Ger McC. Choose your words wisely for the good of the board

[orangeman]

Colm Keys' own words on Nemo :


Nemo Rangers have had a long history of conflict with the Cork County Board, and at their special meeting on Monday night some 169 members out of 188 voted to back the players. There were 17 opposed and two spoiled votes

[The GAA]

Colm Keys' own words on Nemo :


Nemo Rangers have had a long history of conflict with the Cork County Board, and at their special meeting on Monday night some 169 members out of 188 voted to back the players. There were 17 opposed and two spoiled votes

Articulate your point

[orangeman]

They would say that wouldn't they ?