McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

You've used "apparently" quite a few times.

Was there only one club that opposed the 2008 panel ?? Only one club ?


In your post, you said that the clubs laid into FM and the CB like there was no tomorrow - therefore no mention of Gerald -


If the feelings are so strong against FM and the CB, why simply look for a vote of no confidence against Gerald without referring to FM and the CB as well ?

Surely this is where the players argument falls down ? The clubs will not shaft Gerald - I can see them shafting FM and the CB, but not Gerald.

I said apparently because they are not my words. But the same thing seems to be coming in from all sides, not just my source, the chairman, and RebelGaa as well.
I wasn't there so I don't know what happened really, like I said, I'm just saying what I've been told.
Yes, yes, 400 people, 2 standing ovation and massive support and it's where the players arguement falls down.
The clubs will shaft Gerald in a heartbeat, he's part of the problem, he's FM's yes man at this stage and, while they wont like doing it they will do it in a second if it means getting the players back and it could be the motion that lets the CB know that they are serious.
If you think they will "shaft" FM and the CB and not McCarthy then you're truely, truely dillusional.

[The GAA]

Both hypothetical situations, neither of which were agreed to by the players.

Didn't stop McCarthy trying to claim otherwise though....

[orangeman]

You've used "apparently" quite a few times.

Was there only one club that opposed the 2008 panel ?? Only one club ?


In your post, you said that the clubs laid into FM and the CB like there was no tomorrow - therefore no mention of Gerald -


If the feelings are so strong against FM and the CB, why simply look for a vote of no confidence against Gerald without referring to FM and the CB as well ?

Surely this is where the players argument falls down ? The clubs will not shaft Gerald - I can see them shafting FM and the CB, but not Gerald.

I said apparently because they are not my words. But the same thing seems to be coming in from all sides, not just my source, the chairman, and RebelGaa as well.
I wasn't there so I don't know what happened really, like I said, I'm just saying what I've been told.
Yes, yes, 400 people, 2 standing ovation and massive support and it's where the players arguement falls down.
The clubs will shaft Gerald in a heartbeat, he's part of the problem, he's FM's yes man at this stage and, while they wont like doing it they will do it in a second if it means getting the players back and it could be the motion that lets the CB know that they are serious.
If you think they will "shaft" FM and the CB and not McCarthy then you're truely, truely dillusional.

Time for all the clubs down there to get delegates with a set of stones then.

[orangeman]

Sacking Mc Carthy would seem to me to be a very imperfect peace as long as the main protaganists are still in situ,

[Zulu]

For Christ sake OM, the players won't play for Gerald end of. So whether FM stays or goes as long as Gerald is coach the 08 panel won't play so removing him is priority number one. FM should go for the good of Cork GAA but Gerald has to go for the immediate benefit of Cork IC hurling.

[Zulu]

Fair enough. Get rid of McCarthy. Bring in whoever yis want. I feel for the fecker already.

Why? Any coach taking over these lads will get a team full of proven performers, who demand the highest standards of themselves and all involved, a group of lads with the moral courage to stand up for what they believe in regardless of what others think of them and a group of men that put their hurling careers on the line to get the proper support structures. Although I think they would be a challenge, I'd much rather coach a squad like these Cork hurlers than a squad like the Cavan footballers (or many other squads for that matter) because you know these lads won't let you down.

[stephenite]

Apparently the players got massive, massive backing from the clubs, and apparently they, some of the clubs, laid into FM and the CB like there was no tomorrow.
They got a standing ovation at the start and end of the meeting.
Apparently the clubs are fully behind the players.
All but one backed the players fully.
Clubs asked to hold SGMs and further meeting next Sunday, I think.
Apparently there was over 400 at the meeting.

People are disgusted a the lack of democracy shown by the CB.

The clubs are apparently fully behind the players.

If that's the case then the clubs need to do two things asap, get rid of Murphy and get rid of McCarthy, in that order.

[Zulu]

Why? He'll have two years to land the All Ireland or he'll be out on his ear. Will he achieve this? Can't see it.

Just another shite manager....

No he won't, the players aren't blaming Gerald or using him to cover for their own deficiences but they don't rate him and clearly they don't get on with him (which is more important). If a good coaching staff is brought in the players will have to do their talking on the field and they've shown in the past that they are well capable of doing this.

[Zulu]

Taken from rebelgaa and a poster named Podsy, who was at the meeting tonight.....


"Right, I'm tired so this is a brief re-cap. As honest as I can possibly be.

Players entered to a huge standing ovation. Of the 400plus in attendance, only about 10-20 stayed sitting.
Gardiner said that the agenda was really up to the clubs, but maybe they'd start with questions from the floor, then talk about clubs' and players' proposals and solutions.

Alan White spoke - explained himself very well in fairness. Said that his information came from an ex-player (non-2008), that he asked the CCB if the players could agree to any of the Croke park document. The Executive told him they agreed with all of it except point 2. White said that, as this seemed to confirm what he'd heard, he thought nothing of stating that he'd heard such. At this, he said, the top three officials all feigned surprise, despite the fact that they'd just said much the same thing, and despite the fact that Frank Murphy had at that moment in his briefcase a letter from Gerald McCarthy saying exactly the same thing. Frank later said that he hadn't intended reading out the letter but he may as well now, which he did. White said that had the letter been been read out first that he wouldn't have spoke at all, that he was sorry he had, and he apologised for any confusion or hindrance he'd caused. John Gardiner told him it was alright, and White got considerable unsolicited applause for showing up and for being honest.

The vast majority of the speakers that followed spoke in favour of the players' stance, with only a few urging a return to playing. Most urged them to continue, and urged fellow club folk to continue the fight.

Most of the speakers, it seemed to me, were from Junior clubs and there was incredible anger at the lack of representation, or the absence in a lot of cases. Many intermediate and Senior clubs joined in, again overwhelmingly in favour of the players and anti-CCB

Many speakers stated that their clubs had held EGMs, many more said that EGMs were planned, urging others to follow. One member backed the players but urged them not to suggest EGMs as this would split clubs in two, and got some applause. Another asked why anyone would be in favour of democracy, and insisted that clubs should hold EGMs. This near brought the house down.

At this stage, the meeting seemed to be controlled almost entirely by the clubs. Enough anger at the CCB had been vented so the next step seemed to be to ask for proposals. Proposals from the floor included holding an annual such meeting of all club people (warm applause), suggesting further dialogue (muted response), that the 'kids' should go home and talk to their parents (a lot of rage and an indignant response from Cathal Naughton that he found the suggestion insulting and that, besides, if he went home and told his parents that he was going to play under Gerald Mc that he wouldn't wake up in the morning). Most though were curious as to what the players were proposing, so Gardiner read out their two suggested motions for clubs to consider within their clubs and act upon if they saw fit (these will be in the papers, but I'll give them to ye as best I can):-

1) Save in relation to routine matters such as fixtures, venues etc that delegates to the CCB do not vote on any matter without having time to talk to their clubs' Executives as to how they should vote (requires 70/30 majority)

and

2) That Gerald McCarthy and his management team resign as the 2009 Senior Hurling Management Team (requires 51/49 majority)

There seemed little doubt that both votes would have carried comfortably had they been put to the room, and the discussion that followed mirrored that.

At that stage the meeting was, as the players thought, winding to a close. However some members intervened strongly and suggested two further actions for the night.

Firstly, that the members go back and talk to their clubs, and that a follow-up meeting be called therafter. The players hadn't seemed to have bargained on this but said they were available whenever suited. It was fixed for Sunday the 8th March.

Secondly there was a fear that the huge turnout, the spread of the attendance throughout the grades, and the overwhelming support might not be credited or recorded. A roll-call of the clubs present, and their grades was proposed, and quickly agreed upon. This was done. I couldn't put an exact number on it, of course, but clearly the vast majority of clubs were present, which led to the obvious conclusion that the vast majority of clubs are now pro-the-players and Anti-CCB.

Nearly there now!

Only fair to say that the meeting was extremely decorous, and that all members were allowed time to finish their questions/comments.  Those in the minority had their say, and I was proud to be a part of such a dignified meeting held in such controversial times.

Finally, I hope everyone believes me when I say that I've been as honest as I can be, and I've tried to report it free of spin. I'll think of more, I'm sure, but that will have to wait until the morning. I'll finish with  what seemed to be a consensus of actions among the clubs

1) Those clubs that haven't already to set the wheels in motion to call EGMs as soon as the constraints within the rule-book will allow
2) Clubs to discuss both motions, and gain a consensus
3) Meet players again on Sunday the 8th March

'Night all.

Pods."

[Reillers]

Why? He'll have two years to land the All Ireland or he'll be out on his ear. Will he achieve this? Can't see it.

Just another shite manager....

the players aren't blaming Gerald or using him to cover for their own deficiences but they don't rate him and clearly they don't get on with him

Sure, they could say this about anyone if results go against them. If what you want to happen happens, this leaves the players in a position to point the finger of responsibility at the manager and who can prove it right or wrong either way?

These lads are nothing but professional and have no problem at all standing up for what they believe in.
Every person (that I know of anyway) who has worked with the players up till the CB's man Gerald and some of his backroom team now, have had nothing but good words to say about the players but also had pure hate towards the CB.
Surely that tells you something.

[Reillers]

Beat me to it Zulu.
It was a hell of a statement made by the clubs and I think it truely represents the grassroots real opinion. It says it all really that a few days before hand the so call representives of the clubs at the CB voted overwhelmingly for Frank Murphy..sorry, Gerald.
Surely after this FM cannot ignore it.
They ignored the 12000 in the street.
They ignored the pathetically small crowds at the game.
They ignored what Croke Park was offering which really sums up the pathetic set up in Cork.
But surely they can't ignore this.
..Though stranger things have happened.

I think I'll hold off and wait and see what happens with the cb before I react to this.
There is massive unstopable pressure and momentum building up behind the players and it seems more and more likely now that Gerald will go.
Question is how and when, will the CB sacrifice him on Tues to safe their own skins or will it be even more dragged out.

The CCB have played one too many dirty trick and said one too many lies, the tide has surely turned now and the CCB are hopefully getting what they truely deserve.
Hopefully FM will leave his vice grip of Cork GAA go so we can all breath again.

[youngfella]

255 pages, so many pages so little time. Just pretend I was visting this site from the non gaa world. Could you some up whats going on here in a few paragraphs?

[Reillers]

A true sum up.

Pity poor Duffy trying to sort out Rebel circus
TOM HUMPHRIES

LOCKER ROOM : In the last week the Cork hurling crisis has revealed its essence: it's not really about a team and its manager but is rather an inquiry into the singular practice of democracy in Cork GAA

ON THURSDAY night Seán Óg Ó hAilpín drew a line under his day's work and drove back to Cork city. Just time to make training with his club, then get showered off and into the car again. He got to spent some time with his girlfriend who had been sick all day and at close to midnight he had headed off to a hotel near Cork airport to help the lads who had been there since two in the afternoon trying to find a solution to a mess which Cork hurling should not be in.

It was a long, hard and futile day but you'll find people in Cork or elsewhere this morning who will breezily discount the lifetime of commitment given by a Seán Óg or Donal Óg or whoever. Spoilt! Troublemakers! You'll meet people and read their words in chatrooms, words which in years past would have been scrawled angrily in red crayon, words which in an instant evaporate the oceans of blood, sweat and tears which fine players give, words that state confidently that players in their all too fleeting prime would prefer to be causing trouble than to be out hurling.

Yep! They would prefer to be sitting in meetings with men who are as animated and as intellectually flexible as the statues of Easter Island than be out doing that bloody hurling they are so good at. Sure who wouldn't?

In case you have been living on the planet Mars or you had a vote at the last meeting of the Cork County Board, here's the skinny. Imagine your club had a good gang of seniors. A new mentor took them over. And, lo, it didn't work out. Lads lost interest. The team just began losing matches. Intervention was needed to keep the whole show on the road till the end of the season. What would your club do? They'd tell the mentor he was needed to revamp the mini-leagues, they would ask him would he be a selector for the 21s, they'd say "Listen don't be wasting your immense skills on those ingrates, here's the job for you".

In Cork, though, the confederacy of dunces who make up the county board decided to get a whole new bunch of seniors in. Took the Junior Cs and said, "Here ye go, lads". The confederacy opted to force the careers of some of their greatest servants into the blender. Then they rounded up some novices and sent them on the road to nowhere.

In doing so they have brought the Cork jersey into disrepute and they are bringing great competitions into disrepute. In doing so they are insulting not only their own players, who so recently were delivering All-Ireland titles, but they are also whittling away the legacy of poor, deluded, ill-used Gerald McCarthy, and they are offending a succession of county teams who are in effect being asked to play league games which have no more worth than winter challenge matches.

In the world occupied by Cork's confederacy of dunces it is fine to do this because after 2002 the Cork hurlers were always going to be the unforgiven. Cork is like a cartoon universe. Krusty the Clown and Sideshow Bob may endure all manner of humiliation but they always survive to the next episode.

You felt some sympathy for GAA director general Paraic Duffy, a good man and true, as he walked reluctantly into this hand-drawn universe last week. Behind doors he said much in trust and confidence that made sense but the confederacy long since de-recognised "sense" as a currency. Spin is king. Paraic was no sooner on his way back to Dublin than the confederacy were spinning like spiders working to a piece rate. To pre-empt last evening's meeting between players and club chairmen board delegates were hauled in yet again for a full confederacy gathering.

(There is a perception that when the board is in full session at least every village in Cork knows where its idiot is. That is unfair. Every village and club in Cork sends forth its delegate to extract what can be extracted for the gang at home. There is a time-honoured system for not having your club blacklisted and cold-shouldered and a time-honoured way of keeping things smooth for your lot at home. It's confusing and a change of work practice for many delegates to have people asking why they didn't consult or why they ignored consultations – and you can see them thinking to themselves that when the Junior Bs are sent to West Cork for a championship first round next summer we'll all know why! )

Anyway, they assembled again, many of them newly-chastened by their clubs and their hearts were gladdened to hear a statement from Gerald McCarthy being read out by Frank Murphy, a statement which claimed the players had expressed a willingness to play for Gerald under certain conditions, none of which were "when hell freezes over".

The delegate from Blarney chipped in that he had been told by players they wouldn't mind playing for McCarthy if three of his selectors were thrown overboard and three mutually agreed new faces were brought in. It had been that simple! Hurrah!

Of course it was all piffle and spin.

For a long time in Cork it looked as if the hurlers had been hoist with their own petard. Last year's agreement on the way forward had been used to ram through a new term for Gerald McCarthy and they would have to stick with it. The players were outflanked early on in the dispute but have since shown fine judgment in knowing when to hold and when to fold.

And the crisis has changed in its essence. It is, as of this Monday morning, not a crisis about a hurling team and its manager but an inquiry into the practice of democracy in Cork GAA. It is about the most fundamental aspect of Cork's GAA future, power and the way it is exercised. And suddenly in that light, being the ones who with the assistance of a PR company are doing all the spinning doesn't reflect so well on the confederacy.

The "vote" to head off the fall-out of last year's meeting of chairmen and players was a sham but the announcement that it was the vote to end all votes on the matter will certainly have set alarm bells ringing in clubhouses around the county.

These are the same people, after all, who blocked an eminently reasonable motion from Cloyne which suggested that any vote on the hurling management issue be duly notified in advance so that clubs could debate its merits and mandate their delegates. The leaking and distortion of confidential details of the Paraic Duffy talks looks now as grievous as the intentional leaking of the group work done with last summer's facilitator.

Cork GAA isn't facing a hurling problem anymore it is facing an administrative crisis and a credibility deficit. Every day which passes alters the nature of the struggle and in Cork they are now reaching endgame.

On Friday night when the poor bedraggled confederacy was rounded up yet again to hear the bizarre version being offered about players suddenly being content to go back to play under Gerald they must have felt that they are now being used as human shields. It has taken a long time for the day to be seized by people not packing megaphones or an intimate knowledge of the arcane bylaws of Cork GAA but at last that day is coming and a scary time in GAA politics will be left behind.

[youngfella]

read that before, Could you some it up in your own words, say 2 or 3 paragraphs??

People with a different point of view can do the same. Just some it up with no sniping at eachother.

[sligeach]

So the players are likely going to get the power to pick the manager, or sorry, lets phrase it differently, veto anyone they don't want.

Proud day for Cork hurling when this happens, democracy out the door and the voice of the mob is what matters.

Tell me reillers et al, whats going to happen when the next manager tries to drop Mr Cusack or Mr O'Sullivan ? or good old Sean Og ?

Will he be a shite manager then and have to be replaced ?

Sure who needs a county board at all, Donal Og and his mates can run Cork IC for years to come. Maybe the GPA can be Corks main sponsor now and the GPA executive can run the Cork inter-county scene.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Brian Cody wouldn't last 10 minutes managing Cork because his 'decisions' wouldn't be accepted by the poor old decent honest hardworking God's gift to Earth players.

"Drop playerX??", "Ah no Brian we took a vote, thats not a great idea but thanks for the input"
"Train this way ? ", "Ah sorry Brian, didn't you get the memo ? We do it this way"
"I'm not starting today ?", "Think again Mr Cody, we are Cork hurling, I'll start or sit on the bench when I decide to"

Honestly, everyone can see what the players mean and sympatheise but striking and the bullshit thats gone on and the outcome of player power is worse then any amount of CB corruption and people r so f-ing blind they can't see that.