McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Eoghan Mag]

Does anyone know who exactly are 'the Cork Hurling Public'?

[orangeman]

The clubs decided to try the mediation process in the convention. As a delegate I did not vote for it but I accepted it becasue the majority of the club delegates wanted to try it! The players did not engage in this process  however giving excuses, Mc Carthy, then teddy etc etc! So they didn't accept the will of the democratic wishes of the clubs that night so what evidence is there to believe that they will do so now? no mention of this process at all in the statement!   It really looks like that the players would only be happy if they were in the majority in a voting situation or at least have the same amount of votes as board members judging by this part of the statement:


"In good faith, our representatives took part in a number of meetings on behalf of the panel, until it became clear that there was no process really involved. The Board executive clearly viewed it as a vote, in which they would always have a majority. This was obviously not a "process" by any interpretation of the word."

Again why did the players not offer alternatives and why did they not raise objections to Mc Carthy in the first meeting and have it on the record straight away?  It was inevitable  that there would be a vote at the end of the meetings process, that's the chance they took when when they signed up to the arbitration process! As ga said himself they are to blame as well! Very depressing time to be involved in coaching of young lads in Cork.

Last week the CB / management issued a statement and said that they were no longer going to attempt to involve the 2008 panel because of their continued refusal to meet and try and try to resolve things, as voted upon by the delegates at the recent Cork AGM.

The players said they were going to call a press conference to deal with the CB's statement.

To be honest, I thought that the 2008 panel were going to take the opportunity to deal with the CB statement tonight and go through it and contradict the CB statement and show how the 2008 panel had acted honourably throughout the process and especially when it came to dealing with Olan Kelleher, the mediator.
The mediator nor the mediation process was NEVER mentioned tonight in a statememt which ran to 10 pages. So on this score at least, it does seem that the 2008 panel acted dishonourably and never had any intention of meeting with the CB or the management and that all the excuses put forward for not meeting were exactly that - excuses. I was hoping that they could have pointed out where they had made contact with the mediator and had arranged meetings etc etc etc.

The statement didn't deal with all of this which was a failure of them to take the chance to repudiate what Mc Carthy / CB said about their failure to engage last week. Your kinda left believing that Mc Carthy / CB were right last week - i.e that they never had any notion of engaging in talks and to make it worse, were giving them and Kelleher the runaround.

[dowling]

Interesting point about GPA involvement for the present Cork panel, does the GPA view them as strike breakers? And how does the grant money come into play for the new season? Would this dispute have taken place without the existence of a GPA? A slightly different point on the theme of the dispute, could anyone explain why the 'Hogan Stand' gives 'extracts' from GMCC's recent statement but gives the full statement from the players?

[Reillers]

First post here although being observing the site for a few months, thanks to Owenabue for sorting that for me.

Below is a letter my club have sent to the Examiner at the weekend for publication along with one from another club in Down, I think this gives a better understanding of the type of hurling people that Donal Og, Sully and their colleagues are than any of the snide remarks being made to try and indulge in character assasination.

In Newry's experience Cork's Senior Hurlers are true Gaels

A chara,
           I hope you will permit me a few lines to publicly thank members of the Cork Senior Hurling team of 2008 for their continued support for hurling development in Newry and indeed Co Down in general. At the outset I want to state that I'm no apologist for the GPA or with an axe to grind with GAA officialdom as I sit myself on both the Down Hurling Board and Ulster Hurling committee thus I'm fully aware of the valuable role that administrators play within the GAA. However,I have been prompted to write this in the wake of continued attempts, bordering in some cases on character assassination, to portray this group of players as self-centred, interested only in themselves and on some type of ego trip to destroy the fabric of the GAA. I want the Cork hurling public to get some understanding of the true nature of these players and the often unseen efforts they make to promote hurling in the "backwaters" that have been continually ignored by the powers that be whose job it should be to develop hurling!  Only last week we had the pleasure of once again hosting Diarmuid O 'Sullivan in Newry for our annual juvenile hurling awards and to launch the building of our hurling wall as part of our continued progress on our ten year development plan. In the past four years Donal Og Cusack and Diarmuid O'Sullivan have been regular visitors to our club, helping to launch our schools coaching initiative four years ago which has proved to be the springboard for the rejuvenation of juvenile hurling in Newry. Before their first visit hurling in Newry was on its last legs but over the following years with their continued support we have reached the situation where our juvenile hurlers are meeting and beating the Ards clubs at U12/10 level and matching the best in Ulster ,not for one moment am I suggesting this is the sole reason but the publicity they create coupled with hugely increased numbers attending training in the wake of their visits to the local schools is a significant factor. When you read all the press reports about senior Cork players being egotistical, interested only in themselves and in some way seeking to undermine the ethos of the GAA I can assure the public of Cork that the reality as borne out by their efforts is Newry couldn't be further from the truth, indeed I genuinely believe that if the GAA hierarchy was as interested in promoting and developing hurling in weaker counties as these two players and their colleagues hurling would be in a significantly stronger position across the country.

Not only have they helped promote hurling in Newry but throughout Down. I have had the privilege of coaching the Down minor hurling team in the past and both players have taken time out to help coach these players on more than one occasion particularly on our visit to Cork in 2006. This visit was almost singly organised by Donal Og, he organised the challenge match for us, the talk with Sean Og who also arranged to take time out to speak to the players along with a training session which Donal Og conducted himself, basically he gave up his whole weekend to help a group of hurlers from over 200 miles away, those actions say more about the true nature of this fellow gael than any number of press statements or media interviews to the contrary. Anytime we have asked Donal Og or Diarmuid to visit they have always agreed often at short notice, last week was a case in point where at very short notice Diarmuid agreed to travel north again not only to visit schools in the locality and conduct our awards night (with over 70 juveniles attending our U14-U8 awards on Saturday) but on the Friday night he also went to Ballycran an additional round trip of a hundred miles to present the medals at their juvenile awards, surely those are the actions of a player genuinely interested in helping promote hurling and what is best for the game we all love.

It is always simple to look at the headlines in the papers or the spin being created by others for their own agenda without looking beyond this at people's actions on a regular basis away from the glare of the cameras and certainly if you asked the young hurlers of Newry and Down their opinion of the Cork Senior hurlers and in particular Donal Og Cusack and Diarmuid O'Sullivan it would be one of fellow gaels committed totally to the promotion and good of hurling who are always willing to take time out for the people that really matter, not administrators or all stars but the youth of Ireland who want to play the greatest game on this earth. Like all genuine hurling people I hope to see these great servants of our game return to the arena they belong in and ensuring that Cork regain their rightful place at the top of the hurling role of honour.

Is mise le meas
Cumann Iomana Iuir Cinn Tra


A chara,

Finally catching up on emails and text messages. I was sorry I missed Diarmuid because the feedback from all at the club was that they thought him an absolute gentleman and everyone enjoyed meeting him. They were particularly appreciative of the interest he took in all the kids and his willingness to chat and to pose for photographs.

I've copied Eamonn and Paul in to this note because of the kind offer Diarmuid made to spend time with the County Development squads in the Spring/Summer. We will galdly take him up on that offer.

My personal thanks to you for helping arrange the visit.



Seamas O hAonais

Cathaoirleach

Naomh Sheosamh Baile Crann

A letter posted on rebelgaa, for the doubters realrebel maybe you should take a read..and take it as the truth, no more of this, just because he said it doesn't make it the truth..crap. If we looked at it your way anyone that says anything positive about the players most be lying.

[dowling]

I don't think anyone disputes that letter and the benefits of the involvement of those players anywhere throughout the country. But does that mean they become qualified to determine aspects of county decisions? If these players, and I am still to be convinced in spite of this 'show of strength' that there is total unity, are convinced there are such problems in Cork and they have the interests of Cork at heart why not seek election to the county board with the intention of righting all the wrongs?

[Zulu]

Because they are young men who still want to play the game, do you expect them to line out for their clubs, in both codes in many cases, play for their county, hold down jobs and be club and/or county delegates? Surely it is not too much to ask that those people who are club and county delegates take their roles seriously and make decisions based on what is best for Cork GAA and not on a vendetta against their own IC players.

I don't think I'll post on this topic a whole lot more, the players statement and the reaction to it by posters here has shown me one thing, that opinions on this matter are entrenched. It doesn't matter what is said or who says it, no one is changing their mind on this one.

I support the players 100% and here is why:

1. They told the 5 CB members of the selection committee that they couldn't work with Gerald yet the 5 delegates reappointed him unanomously.

2. Gerald's record was so poor that any manager would have been under pressure, let alone the Cork hurling manager, yet the 5 delegates reappointed him unanomously.

3. Clubs weren't give the opportunity to propose names.

4. The CB didn't seek out anyone else for the job despite points 1 & 2.  

5. The appointment was ratified by club delegates, not by club members.

As far as I'm concerned points 1-4 are damning and raise serious questions about the the process and the motivations of the CB during that process. IMO the 5 CB members of the selection committee went into that process, not to find the best man to lead Cork hurling but to pursue a vendetta against their senior hurlers.

If posters on this board or if the Cork GAA public can turn a blind eye to that and if you want to get bogged down in the subsequent slagging match between the players and Gerald then fair enough. However if we as an organization feel that players going on strike is the real evil and the real danger to the ethos of the GAA but that officials pursuing an agenda that drags the name of the GAA through the mud is not. Or that a paid official who's job it is to promote and run the GAA in Cork can be up to his neck in 3 strikes in 6 years and can oversee the process that has lead us, in the full knowledge that it would do, to this point are not the real problem then we will get what we deserve.

It is no wonder that club championships are so poorly run, it's no wonder that kids and adults favour other codes that provide them with regular games rather than the haphazard way we do  it in the GAA. It is no wonder that we have disciplinary problems and court cases to get clearly guilty men off on technicalities. Why because when fellas break rank and put their head above the parapet and demand more from the officials the get shot down by the very people they are fighting for.

The GAA is the most important activity in my life and I'll continue to serve it but the attitude of many around here makes me wonder is the GAA great in spite of it's members rather than because of them.

[INDIANA]

I don't agree the strike achieved nothing. The only way to change this is through the clubs. That was proposed here months ago, they went for the nuclear option instead of calling the Board's bluff and using the Clubs as leverage. Both to get their way AND for the clubs to get their way by getting their vote back. In one swoop they could have changed all the processes behind the scenes so this situtaion was unlikely to ever happen again and weaken Frank Murphy into the bargain.
Instead they alienated themselves with public opinion both in Cork and nationally, allowed Mc Carthy to win the PR battle and largely backed themselves into a corner as we saw last night.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for them but I'd still ask the question as to why they couldn't see the obvious way to sort this out that everyone else could see months ago.

I see where you're coming from but I've seen it in Dublin, Carr was shafted against players wishes, the players didn't want tommy lyons for a 3rd year, we didn't want john bailey. BUt we had to go though due process to sort things out. There are no shortcuts to this. People underestimate the club vote and how it can be used when a few heads a re knocked together. I've seen clubs who wouldn't spit on each other find common ground at county board level to get rid of people who only had their own interests at hand. The Cork players have only realised this now, I find that astonishing.

[orangeman]

Listening to Colm and Jim Jim on 2FM this morning, Jackie ( from Cork ) came on and gave out the Sports news including the news about last nights press conference - Jim Jim ( I think ) asked Jackie to describe in 30 seconds what the strike was about - she said for the previous 2 years, the players didn't want Mc Carthy as manager and when he was reappointed, they went on strike. Jackie, from Cork, went on to say how knowing the lads personally, it was so sad and how that all they want to do is play, to which Jim Jim retorted, well why don't they go out and play. She went on to say how the championship wouldn't be the same without Cork ( which seems to infer that even though Cork will field the young lads they've been written off already ). Jim Jim after it Jackie had finished talking about the players, said that the term "moaney holes" sprang to mind and Jacke conceded that public support and sympathy was slowly draining away from the players.

I have always maintained throughout the dispute that there other ways to resolve the players' grievance and eventually the players, having backed themselves into a corner, have realised that they're going nowhere in this dispuute. It could have been resolved by now if they had taken alternative measures long before now.

I do hope it gets resolved but the 2008 panel, by their actions have alienated themselves from a lot of GAA people not only in Cork but throughout the country.

It was nice to see the letters from Newry and from Ballycran and I don't doubt their content at all. But the players should play and not try and take the fight to the county board themselves every time there's row. This strike was ill advised and support has been lost.

Nothing that an Munster or AI win wouldn't cure all the same.

[Zulu]

Jesus are we now depending on 'Jim Jim's' views on the situation, I can't wait to hear bosco's analysis. I agree, Indiana that the players ultimately have to work through the clubs but I don't think people would have realized the seriousness of the situation if the player's had first went that route. The player's didn't take the nuclear option IMO, they took their only option. They banked on the fact that the Cork public want the best Cork team out on the field at the end of the day and they are still banking on that. That is why they've said they'll walk away if the clubs don't back them. At the end of the day life is fairly simple, it is people who make it difficult, the CB acted against the GAA by doing what they did and the players knew that going through the normal channels would stack the process in FM's favour. By doing what they have done they have given themselves some chance of success, but again how anyone can feel that the players should talk to the CCB is beyond me. If the GAA was a company I owned I'd be having a serious look at FM's position yet in the GAA he's walking away smelling of roses with the cheers of many 'grassroot' GAA men ringing in his ear.

[Bud Wiser]

Dead right Indianna and if they had gone to clubs and used the democratic process young lads that wanted to hurl would not have been put in the position they were in last night.  For example, all these young lads should have (apart from never been put in a position in the first place) been called to a meeting of the 2008 squad and let hear what Cusack and O'Halpin had to say.  Then, they should have allowed players not involved to have a secret ballot to decide whether they wished to play or not.  That is the least they should have done, but what they did last night by wheeling them into this farce was a disgrace.

They have a duty to correct this immediately if they are that interested in Cork hurling.  I think this is what they should do:

A few months ago I read where Diarmuid O'Sullivan was at a juvenile match in which his own clubs U14 hurling team were playing. During the game Diarmuid was coaching the young lads except that he was coaching the opposition as well in how to prevent his own teams forwards from scoring.  At the time I read that article I thought it was an extraordinary story, a nice story and that it reflected the true spirit of all things GAA.   Diarmuid O'Sullivan is the very man that should deal with the players who were not involved in the original row, the players who are coming through.  There is a duty on the strikers, whether they agree or not, to encourage the younger players to play the game and because of the credentials of Diarmuid and from what I have seen and read about him, he should take all the players that were not involved at the beginning, sit them down, talk to them and explain that this is not their fight and that any one of them that wants to play will have the full support of the strikers.   If they do that instead of wheeling young players, the future of Cork hurling, into a room and pointing at them and saying, "look, they are here, they don't want to play" then they will get some support from the public.

As a matter of fact Diarmuid should go back himself with the young lads.

As for the Cummins ball and the O'Neills ball, the only difference is the Cummins ball is smaller but if Cork were hurling golf balls and Kilkenny were hurling turnips it will make no difference to the end result this year or next year.

[Zulu]

For example, all these young lads should have (apart from never been put in a position in the first place) been called to a meeting of the 2008 squad and let hear what Cusack and O'Halpin had to say.  Then, they should have allowed players not involved to have a secret ballot to decide whether they wished to play or not.  That is the least they should have done, but what they did last night by wheeling them into this farce was a disgrace.

They did hold a secret ballot of all the players and all the players voted to go on strike, anyway you're views are coloured by your feelings on the GPA.

[johnneycool]

For example, all these young lads should have (apart from never been put in a position in the first place) been called to a meeting of the 2008 squad and let hear what Cusack and O'Halpin had to say.  Then, they should have allowed players not involved to have a secret ballot to decide whether they wished to play or not.  That is the least they should have done, but what they did last night by wheeling them into this farce was a disgrace.

They did hold a secret ballot of all the players and all the players voted to go on strike, anyway you're views are coloured by your feelings on the GPA.

Was it a secret ballot or a show of hands?

[orangeman]

Tonight's board meeting will be interesting.

The 2008 panel want to meet all the clubs -

First off, will all the clubs meet them ?
If they do meet them, what will the reaction be ?


Reillers / Zulu - would either of you care to speculate ?

[Bud Wiser]

They did hold a secret ballot of all the players and all the players voted to go on strike, anyway you're views are coloured by your feelings on the GPA.

Heffo already pointed out that the GPA had nothing to do with it.  I accept Heffo's point and I now accept that I was wrong about the GPA.  It would appear that , unlike me, accepting being wrong is outside of their capability.

Here are 2 little Q's for you Zulu.

1.  The strikers said that they could not get their way with the CB because the selectors and the cb out numbered their representation. When the ballot you refer to took place, was it a ballot of the young lads that were going to be called up to play on their own or were they out numbered by the strikers in the same ballot?

2.   Do you think that it would be acceptable if someone like Diarmuid O'Sullivan took the young lads aside and said, look lads, there will be no hard feelings if ye go ahead and represent your county to the best of your ability and we will have no problem with encouraging support from the Cork suporters for your efforts.?

As I said in an earlier post, I was down in Youghal GAA Club on Christmas week and a young lad hopping a ball on a hurl in the car park told me that one day he had an ambition to play for Man Utd.  The longer this goes on, or is made to go on, the less young lads there will be hopping balls on hurls.  It is about time that this was brought to a close and 'coloured' as my opinion may seem to you there are two ways of doing it, one being the way I suggested or the second is to ban all the players involved from the GAA by the boys in Croke Park.

That is my final opinion on ths entire subject, I am sick of it because it is tiresome, useless debate.  

[Zulu]

Was it a secret ballot or a show of hands?

Secret ballot.

The strikers said that they could not get their way with the CB because the selectors and the cb out numbered their representation. When the ballot you refer to took place, was it a ballot of the young lads that were going to be called up to play on their own or were they out numbered by the strikers in the same ballot?

The ballot was amongst the 2008 panel, anyone who wanted to play for Cork under the present management could have voted against strike action, none did.   

Do you think that it would be acceptable if someone like Diarmuid O'Sullivan took the young lads aside and said, look lads, there will be no hard feelings if ye go ahead and represent your county to the best of your ability and we will have no problem with encouraging support from the Cork suporters for your efforts.?

I wouldn't say it would unacceptable, it would however be nonsensical, these players are fighting against a CB that has clearly been corrupted by power and is no longer even attempting to do the best for Cork GAA when dealing with their IC hurling panel. Why would O'Sullivan, believing that the CB aren't doing what is right, encourage players to play within that system? I hope he has allowed them to weigh up the situation themselves and come to their own conclusion as to what course of action is best, but for him to encourage them to play under the present system is ludicrous.

That is my final opinion on ths entire subject, I am sick of it because it is tiresome, useless debate.

It probably has become tiresome at this stage alright, but it isn't a useless debate. IMO the CCB are just a particularly bad version of most CB's, many of them serve neither the county or club teams as well as they should. Many of them fail to promote the GAA within their county with anything like the vigour we should expect, as i've said before we all have to accept a level of incompetence and poor management from amateur officers, many of whom are doing their best, but we should never put up with power hungry officials who are damaging the GAA not out lack of ability but through maliciousness. It seems from this thread however that I'm in the minority on that one or maybe I too am living in Reillersland.