McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[cicfada]

Regardless of who leaked the famous critique document, (as far as I know Mc carthy has not denied being the leaker) surely the more salient point is that it was a complete waste of time. Who was the bright spark that thought of the idea?  Players had to only give positive feedback about Mc carthy . What was he supposed to learn from this exactly? the only critique that is effective is totally honest feedback both negative and positive. what were the players going to benefit  from it as well?  An opportunity was missed for straight talking and positive results from it could have arised! Instead there was this arse licking exercise! What a joke!

[orangeman]

Regardless of who leaked the famous critique document, (as far as I know Mc carthy has not denied being the leaker) surely the more salient point is that it was a complete waste of time. Who was the bright spark that thought of the idea?  Players had to only give positive feedback about Mc carthy . What was he supposed to learn from this exactly? the only critique that is effective is totally honest feedback both negative and positive. what were the players going to benefit  from it as well?  An opportunity was missed for straight talking and positive results from it could have arised! Instead there was this arse licking exercise! What a joke!

I don't know what the reasoning was behind only positive comments but Reillers and the players seem to be accusing Mc Cathy of bad faith in leaking this to the press. The players haven't exactly showed their bona fides throughout the process.  I don't know if Mc Carthy leaked it or not but you can't go accusing if you haven't proof - something which REILLERS sought from the rest of us but which was thin on the ground when it came to himself.

Reillers has gone underground now that the pressure has been brought to bear about how he knows so much about it - I think he has been rumbled.


What's the reason behind Reiller's disappearance ??


Maybe it's just the New Year's festivities.

[Reillers]

Regardless of who leaked the famous critique document, (as far as I know Mc carthy has not denied being the leaker) surely the more salient point is that it was a complete waste of time. Who was the bright spark that thought of the idea?  Players had to only give positive feedback about Mc carthy . What was he supposed to learn from this exactly? the only critique that is effective is totally honest feedback both negative and positive. what were the players going to benefit  from it as well?  An opportunity was missed for straight talking and positive results from it could have arised! Instead there was this arse licking exercise! What a joke!

I don't know what the reasoning was behind only positive comments but Reillers and the players seem to be accusing Mc Cathy of bad faith in leaking this to the press. The players haven't exactly showed their bona fides throughout the process.  I don't know if Mc Carthy leaked it or not but you can't go accusing if you haven't proof - something which REILLERS sought from the rest of us but which was thin on the ground when it came to himself.

Reillers has gone underground now that the pressure has been brought to bear about how he knows so much about it - I think he has been rumbled.


What's the reason behind Reiller's disappearance ??


Maybe it's just the New Year's festivities.

Some of us have lives OM so we can't be on here all the time.
The reasoning behind the comments was because they weren't getting on. This was during the season now, a facilitator was brought in to try and get them to the end of the season because they weren't getting on.
Cathal O'Reilly was brought in to "clear the air."
The fact that someone was needed, that a facilitator was needed to be brought in so they could get to the end of the season says a lot, and the fact that the board reappointed him knowing facts like that says a lot more.
Making the players write positive things about Gerald makes them think positivley, creating apparently, a possitive atmosphere, where the negatives aren't just thought about.
At least I presume that was the reason.

OM except that it was Gerald, it couldn't have been anyone else. It's his fault it got leaked to the media. He had it, the only copy, that's proof enough and he hasn't exactly denied it now has he.
And you're such a hypocrite, you accuse the players of everything or anything, you even suggested that it was the players who leaked the document. Which was pathetic really and a desperate cry from you.

Like I said, some of us have lives and I refuse to reply if you don't respond to my posts.

I'm not online all the time, it's called having a life..you should try it some time. FFS. Grow up, not everyone can be on here every second of the day, you might be able to but I sure as hell can't.

[orangeman]

Happy New Years Reillers !

I thought you were on strike - glad to have you back.


Did the players and management at the time feel that the facilitator was a successful exercise ??

[Reillers]

Athbhliain faoi Mhaise Duit.

Clearly something went right, it helped a lot that the players started winning pretty much after that and winning always help the atmosphere. Clearly the feelings never went away, they were there, but the players do what they do best and they burried them.

I honestly can't see how you don't think it was McCarthy who leaked it. If there was even a question of the players doing something like that you'd hang them out to dry without looking for 100% proof. This is pretty much tight proof. He was the only one with the only copy. It could not, physically have been anyone else, and he hasn't denied it.
Gerald's a saint but the players, hell you even tried to blame this one on the players. And you say you're not biased and you expect us to believe you.

[orangeman]

Athbhliain faoi Mhaise Duit.

Clearly something went right, it helped a lot that the players started winning pretty much after that and winning always help the atmosphere. Clearly the feelings never went away, they were there, but the players do what they do best and they burried them.

I honestly can't see how you don't think it was McCarthy who leaked it. If there was even a question of the players doing something like that you'd hang them out to dry without looking for 100% proof. This is pretty much tight proof. He was the only one with the only copy. It could not, physically have been anyone else, and he hasn't denied it.
Gerald's a saint but the players, hell you even tried to blame this one on the players. And you say you're not biased and you expect us to believe you.

At no stage did I ever blame the players - I merely was trying to point out the waeknesses in your affirmation that it could ONLY have been Mc Carthy - I was trying to show you that there were holes in your argument  -but you MIGHT be right - it could have been Mc Carthy - but there have historically been miscarriages of justice - and it's a good job the Birmingham Six weren't handed the death penalty.

[Reillers]

Athbhliain faoi Mhaise Duit.

Clearly something went right, it helped a lot that the players started winning pretty much after that and winning always help the atmosphere. Clearly the feelings never went away, they were there, but the players do what they do best and they burried them.

I honestly can't see how you don't think it was McCarthy who leaked it. If there was even a question of the players doing something like that you'd hang them out to dry without looking for 100% proof. This is pretty much tight proof. He was the only one with the only copy. It could not, physically have been anyone else, and he hasn't denied it.
Gerald's a saint but the players, hell you even tried to blame this one on the players. And you say you're not biased and you expect us to believe you.

At no stage did I ever blame the players - I merely was trying to point out the waeknesses in your affirmation that it could ONLY have been Mc Carthy - I was trying to show you that there were holes in your argument  -but you MIGHT be right - it could have been Mc Carthy - but there have historically been miscarriages of justice - and it's a good job the Birmingham Six weren't handed the death penalty.

You suggested it was the players.
There is no other way it could have gotten out. McCarthy was the only one with the only copy.
Now admit it, if this was something to do with the players you would be ripping them to shreads at this point, you wouldn't give it a second chance, or a second, you haven't you don't. You always and you have, thought the worse of the players with no PROOF or BACKING or FACTS but when something that is pretty much 100% obvious who leaked it, you come up with every excuse possible so that McCarthy didn't do something low.

I'll say it again McCarthy was the ONLY one with the ONLY copy. One copy was made and it was given straight to McCarthy who put the "private" document away. He is, because of that, singlely responsible for it getting leaked into the media. That is unquestionable. It's his fault it got leaked.

You say you're not biased but clearly you are and if this doesn't proove it then I don't know what will because it's obvious to all that you have one hell of a massive agenda with the players. Admit that, atleast admit that.

[Reillers]

The players have responded to Gerald's letter but apparently nothing has changed. They are now questiong whether they should or shouldn't sit down again and while there was a good chance that they were going to earlier on they now don't seem to be enjoying the prospect of being outnumbered again.
They are reluctant to engage in a process in which they would be outnumbered, four to two particularly when they are still seeking clarification on the procedures likely to be used in the operation of the committee, as well as details of its powers.

Why not use how they did it in 2002 or are the CB petrified of what will happen, in 02 an equal number of CB members to players. Because God forbid they ever treat them like equals.

In 2002, an equal number of players sat down with an equal number of CCB members, and got a solution. This 2 against 4 thing isn't going to work, it's just that, 4 against 2, there's no way, no chance thatl the players will let themselves be put in a situation like that again.

At this stage you'd almost suggest that there should be no CCB involvement in the team, its obvious that the CCB don't trust the players, and most certainly the players do not trust the CCB. There was very little involvement in the time of 2003-2006 and look what happened and comparing it to 2007 on when the CB have tried to take back control.

There is no respect or trust left anywhere in Cork at any level it seems. The respect and trust the players had for Gerald is gone, and vice versa.

I know ye don't agree but the situation has come to a point where, in the best interests of Cork hurling, he has to step down. I don't think he should be forced but for the good of Cork hurlng he should step down. By not doing so now, it's only a matter of time before he's forced out of the job, discarded by the CCB after serving his purpose, and most likely being at the head of several trashings.
What gets under my skin the most is that if the situation was managed properly from the start, he wouldn't be in this position, he shouldn't have to be in this position.
He has gotten in the middle of a fight between the CB and players that has been going on for years and he's gotten in the middle of it and made a nuisance of himself. It's not about him, it's about the way he was reappointed yet he's managed to make it a bitch fight and made it about him, which it never was in the first place. The players have always had massive respect for him but he say something that wasn't there and made this fight about him, when it wasn't fully, only just about how he was reappointed.

There are so many personal vendetta against the players, who "need to be brought under control" and "of course, the status quo needs to be followed", that it seems that the CCB don't care about the state of the Cork team, as long as they are in there controlling it. Like I have said, the board want control over success.

What I'm afraid of now, is say this isn't resolved, say the kids end up going out and if they loose, they loose that's not what will worry me, they are just kids and they shouldn't be put in this situation. But with last years squad gone, there is no one there to guide the younger players along, senior inter county at the highest level is a different ball game altogether. It's hard, it's demanding and overwhelming. The thought of the average age being what, 20-23 years old.
Gerald has already admitted that he needs the players, by sending them the letter. And he does, the kids, the young lads can't do it by themselves.

If it stays like this now. It means that for now it's over??
So what happens..
Cork will play the first few rounds of the league with a shadow, weak, extremley young squad, get hammered. Public patience will grow short. There will be massive public outcry, the Cb will ignore it at the start but as the cry gets louder Gerald will get sacked and..what the players come back.
Is that what will happen now that there is to be no talking and that they have restated their intentions not to play with Ger Mc.
IS that what's supposed to happen, because that's what I see happening.

[orangeman]

Athbhliain faoi Mhaise Duit.

Clearly something went right, it helped a lot that the players started winning pretty much after that and winning always help the atmosphere. Clearly the feelings never went away, they were there, but the players do what they do best and they burried them.

I honestly can't see how you don't think it was McCarthy who leaked it. If there was even a question of the players doing something like that you'd hang them out to dry without looking for 100% proof. This is pretty much tight proof. He was the only one with the only copy. It could not, physically have been anyone else, and he hasn't denied it.
Gerald's a saint but the players, hell you even tried to blame this one on the players. And you say you're not biased and you expect us to believe you.

At no stage did I ever blame the players - I merely was trying to point out the waeknesses in your affirmation that it could ONLY have been Mc Carthy - I was trying to show you that there were holes in your argument  -but you MIGHT be right - it could have been Mc Carthy - but there have historically been miscarriages of justice - and it's a good job the Birmingham Six weren't handed the death penalty.

You suggested it was the players.
There is no other way it could have gotten out. McCarthy was the only one with the only copy.
Now admit it, if this was something to do with the players you would be ripping them to shreads at this point, you wouldn't give it a second chance, or a second, you haven't you don't. You always and you have, thought the worse of the players with no PROOF or BACKING or FACTS but when something that is pretty much 100% obvious who leaked it, you come up with every excuse possible so that McCarthy didn't do something low.

I'll say it again McCarthy was the ONLY one with the ONLY copy. One copy was made and it was given straight to McCarthy who put the "private" document away. He is, because of that, singlely responsible for it getting leaked into the media. That is unquestionable. It's his fault it got leaked.

You say you're not biased but clearly you are and if this doesn't proove it then I don't know what will because it's obvious to all that you have one hell of a massive agenda with the players. Admit that, atleast admit that.

Who had the original then

[Reillers]

Athbhliain faoi Mhaise Duit.

Clearly something went right, it helped a lot that the players started winning pretty much after that and winning always help the atmosphere. Clearly the feelings never went away, they were there, but the players do what they do best and they burried them.

I honestly can't see how you don't think it was McCarthy who leaked it. If there was even a question of the players doing something like that you'd hang them out to dry without looking for 100% proof. This is pretty much tight proof. He was the only one with the only copy. It could not, physically have been anyone else, and he hasn't denied it.
Gerald's a saint but the players, hell you even tried to blame this one on the players. And you say you're not biased and you expect us to believe you.

At no stage did I ever blame the players - I merely was trying to point out the waeknesses in your affirmation that it could ONLY have been Mc Carthy - I was trying to show you that there were holes in your argument  -but you MIGHT be right - it could have been Mc Carthy - but there have historically been miscarriages of justice - and it's a good job the Birmingham Six weren't handed the death penalty.

You suggested it was the players.
There is no other way it could have gotten out. McCarthy was the only one with the only copy.
Now admit it, if this was something to do with the players you would be ripping them to shreads at this point, you wouldn't give it a second chance, or a second, you haven't you don't. You always and you have, thought the worse of the players with no PROOF or BACKING or FACTS but when something that is pretty much 100% obvious who leaked it, you come up with every excuse possible so that McCarthy didn't do something low.

I'll say it again McCarthy was the ONLY one with the ONLY copy. One copy was made and it was given straight to McCarthy who put the "private" document away. He is, because of that, singlely responsible for it getting leaked into the media. That is unquestionable. It's his fault it got leaked.

You say you're not biased but clearly you are and if this doesn't proove it then I don't know what will because it's obvious to all that you have one hell of a massive agenda with the players. Admit that, atleast admit that.

Who had the original then

YOu know what I mean, there was only ever one made of it. And Gerald had it. NO one else.

[orangeman]

Sorry - I thought you meant someone had an original and Mc Carty had a opy - it was kind of misleading.

[orangeman]

Have the players met up with the middle man, manager and county board yet Reillers or are they refusing to engage in any discussions ?.

[Reillers]

Not that I know of. There will be no negotiations though under the current circumstances because if the current suggestion of 4 v 2 isn't changed then I don't think they'll meet at all. That's what they aren't comfortable with. They don't want to be put in that situation like that again.
In 2002 there was an equal number of players v board and a solution was found.
This way though, it makes the players, I imagine, feel cornered and as a result of working AGAINST the CB for 6 years, paranoid. Very, very paranoid.
The 4-2 thing wont work and I don't expect the players to meet under those circumstances and obviously they aren't crazy about the idea.

[orangeman]

Not that I know of. There will be no negotiations though under the current circumstances because if the current suggestion of 4 v 2 isn't changed then I don't think they'll meet at all. That's what they aren't comfortable with. They don't want to be put in that situation like that again.
In 2002 there was an equal number of players v board and a solution was found.
This way though, it makes the players, I imagine, feel cornered and as a result of working AGAINST the CB for 6 years, paranoid. Very, very paranoid.
The 4-2 thing wont work and I don't expect the players to meet under those circumstances and obviously they aren't crazy about the idea.

Have they met the solicitor / middle man yet to air their concerns about the 4v 2 thing ?


If it was 2 v 2, who would the players send and who would you like to see represent board / management ?

[theskull1]

Independent.ie
Rebel rift deepens as players put it in writing
By Cliona Foley
Friday January 02 2009

A settlement to the Cork hurling row looks as far away as ever after the players started the New Year by writing to manager Gerald McCarthy to reiterate their refusal to play for him.

Before Christmas, local solicitor Olan Kelleher was nominated to chair a six-person committee set up to try to find a breakthrough, but it looks increasingly likely that the players will not take up the offer of two places in that group.

McCarthy wrote to all the players last month, outlining his plans for the season and asking them to notify him of their availability. It is understood that last year's panel have now informed him in writing that they will not be making themselves available to him.

The Cork Convention passed a motion last month to set up the six-man committee to try to solve the impasse. It is to include two representatives of the county board, two player representatives and two members of the county senior hurling management.

But it appears the players are sceptical about joining this group. They have sought clarification about the procedures it will use and are also fearful about how it might stack up numerically against them.

- Cliona Foley

As stated elsewhere. Hurling is just a pastime and Ger has found men proud to wear the red and white this year so time to move on.