McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

That's to do with the public, they've earned their "celebraty status" nothing to do with the "privileges" that the GAA give them.

And you think in Cork the CB give them a lot..where have you been for the past few years. 

Did Frank not make sweeping changes to their terms and conditions in 2002 ??

He says they enjoy the most privileges of any squad in Ireland !    Say thank you Frank !

[Reillers]

That's to do with the public, they've earned their "celebraty status" nothing to do with the "privileges" that the GAA give them.

And you think in Cork the CB give them a lot..where have you been for the past few years. 

Did Frank not make sweeping changes to their terms and conditions in 2002 ??

He says they enjoy the most privileges of any squad in Ireland !    Say thank you Frank !

Oh sorry I'm sure that was after the players stood up, went on strike and got their rights.

[orangeman]

That's to do with the public, they've earned their "celebraty status" nothing to do with the "privileges" that the GAA give them.

And you think in Cork the CB give them a lot..where have you been for the past few years. 

Did Frank not make sweeping changes to their terms and conditions in 2002 ??

He says they enjoy the most privileges of any squad in Ireland !    Say thank you Frank !

Oh sorry I'm sure that was after the players stood up, went on strike and got their rights.

I'm sure it was out of the goodness of Frank saintly heart ! 


These gifts were bestowed on them by Saint Francis ! 

[Reillers]

That's to do with the public, they've earned their "celebraty status" nothing to do with the "privileges" that the GAA give them.

And you think in Cork the CB give them a lot..where have you been for the past few years. 

Did Frank not make sweeping changes to their terms and conditions in 2002 ??

He says they enjoy the most privileges of any squad in Ireland !    Say thank you Frank !

Oh sorry I'm sure that was after the players stood up, went on strike and got their rights.

I'm sure it was out of the goodness of Frank saintly heart ! 


These gifts were bestowed on them by Saint Francis ! 

Oh yes I forgot. The same saint who thought there was absolutley nothing wrong with the way the players were being treated and would love nothing more to go back to then. Yes yes, ever so saintly. 

[orangeman]

That's to do with the public, they've earned their "celebraty status" nothing to do with the "privileges" that the GAA give them.

And you think in Cork the CB give them a lot..where have you been for the past few years. 

Did Frank not make sweeping changes to their terms and conditions in 2002 ??

He says they enjoy the most privileges of any squad in Ireland !    Say thank you Frank !

Oh sorry I'm sure that was after the players stood up, went on strike and got their rights.

I'm sure it was out of the goodness of Frank saintly heart ! 


These gifts were bestowed on them by Saint Francis ! 

Oh yes I forgot. The same saint who thought there was absolutley nothing wrong with the way the players were being treated and would love nothing more to go back to then. Yes yes, ever so saintly. 

You're real devil Reillers compared to Saint Frank !!!

[theskull1]

I do not want the players to follow the chain of command if they don't want to (no they are not not be sheep as I keep saying). The option for 99.999% of players is you walk away. My point is that walking away just isn't an option for individuals who earn these "privilages" as a by product of being a top intercounty hurler. So they have a vested interest in sticking around rather than going away quietly like 99.999% of people who get pissed off at their CB or the Manager. Thats why this stand off exists. Lets be real about that. Enough of this oul blarney about for the good of Cark hurling

I back the CCB yes because it is a democracy and so is without doubt the lesser of two evils. CB's need to have control to function properly. The GAA is a democratic orginisation (with flaws) and those structures are critical to the workings of it. All volunteers need to work within it. If a manager wants to get tracksuits for the players, it has to go through a meeting. If an invite is offered to a juvenile team for a weekend away, it gets put through a meeting. These decisions are yes'd and no'd all the time. On lots of occasions those concerned are far from happy at the decisions that this democracy makes, but they accept it or they walk away. 99.999% accept it is the way it is.

I also support GMcC fully as well as admire a man with his character for standing up to the players. He has brought a huge ammount to the game and does not deserve the ridicule spewed out in the media about his capabilities by certainly individuals. My belief is the main protaganists never gave him a chance because he had his own ideas and they didn't tie up with what the players had in mind.

[Zulu]

I do not want the players to follow the chain of command if they don't want to (no they are not not be sheep as I keep saying). The option for 99.999% of players is you walk away. My point is that walking away just isn't an option for individuals who earn these "privilages" as a by product of being a top intercounty hurler. So they have a vested interest in sticking around rather than going away quietly like 99.999% of people who get pissed off at their CB or the Manager. Thats why this stand off exists. Lets be real about that. Enough of this oul blarney about for the good of Cark hurling

You see Skull this is where your argument falls down, you have absolutely no proof that the motivation for these players is anything other than the good of Cork hurling, a notion you too readily dismiss. Undoubtedly some players do well out of being Cork hurlers but many of them could do a whole lot better if they were so inclined, which doesn't stack up with your theory. Furthermore I don't believe for a second veteran members of the squad like Timmy McCarthy or Niall McCarthy would allow their IC careers to finish up like this if they thought that Donal and Sean Og were motivated by their profile and whatever you think goes with that. Most of the younger players are educated and intelligent young men so it is quite insulting to suggest they (being as close as they are to the situation) cannot see they are being duped while you (who are so far away from the situation) can.

I'm also amazed that any GAA person can think that you should shut up and get on with it or walk away from the game that you love because some committee men are acting the bollocks, either club or county. These guys are driven, proud Corkmen and GAA men, why should they slink off into the background when committee men, paid committee men in FM's case are behaving like drunken Nero's with a particularly bad attitude. You've even admitted that the CCB actions were a power play but you don't care, well in my GAA when committee men take decisions solely to put their players back in their box, they no longer deserve respect or allegiance.

Democracy in the GAA is only a word it doesn't exist in its truest form, in fact I'm dealing with this shamocracy in my own club at the moment, but I have some chance because at club level there are so few involved and they have to face me and others everyday that pressure can be exerted to do the right thing. Not so at county level that is why the players are using the only weapon at their disposal, anyone who supports more talks and compromise simply doesn't understand what is going on down there.

[Lecale2]

Babs was on the wireless there winding the Cork boys up. Tipp people are laughin their arses off at the whole carry on.

[theskull1]

You see Skull this is where your argument falls down, you have absolutely no proof that the motivation for these players is anything other than the good of Cork hurling, a notion you too readily dismiss. Undoubtedly some players do well out of being Cork hurlers but many of them could do a whole lot better if they were so inclined, which doesn't stack up with your theory. Furthermore I don't believe for a second veteran members of the squad like Timmy McCarthy or Niall McCarthy would allow their IC careers to finish up like this if they thought that Donal and Sean Og were motivated by their profile and whatever you think goes with that. Most of the younger players are educated and intelligent young men so it is quite insulting to suggest they (being as close as they are to the situation) cannot see they are being duped while you (who are so far away from the situation) can.

I don't believe it falls down so to speak. I cannot prove anything you're right. But you have to concede that the reduction/stopping of a significant revenue flow would come into their psyche at some point. If they think they'll either lose their place or the training won't keep them at the right standard to maintain a high profile then they may very well have reacted in the militant way they did for unethical reasons. The younger lads will buy into the basic argument that Ger is good enough for Cork so they are different altogther. I could be wrong but I'd be fairly sure it plays a part in some of the main protaganists thoughts.

I'm also amazed that any GAA person can think that you should shut up and get on with it or walk away from the game that you love because some committee men are acting the bollocks, either club or county. These guys are driven, proud Corkmen and GAA men, why should they slink off into the background when committee men, paid committee men in FM's case are behaving like drunken Nero's with a particularly bad attitude. You've even admitted that the CCB actions were a power play but you don't care, well in my GAA when committee men take decisions solely to put their players back in their box, they no longer deserve respect or allegiance.

Not put up or shut up Zulu. You have to put your case forward and if the decision goes with you well and good if it doesn't and you think they made the wrong decision then you have to persuade and influence opinions within that democracy. But if you're beat your beat and you have to accept it. Democracy rules
And if you don't give the administrators the respect they do deserve then guess what. The GAA society that has been constructed breaks. What are you gonna do then....seriously I'd love to know how the landscape would look like if the players got their way in this. As I've said the lesser of two evils

Democracy in the GAA is only a word it doesn't exist in its truest form, in fact I'm dealing with this shamocracy in my own club at the moment, but I have some chance because at club level there are so few involved and they have to face me and others everyday that pressure can be exerted to do the right thing. Not so at county level that is why the players are using the only weapon at their disposal, anyone who supports more talks and compromise simply doesn't understand what is going on down there.

So paint the the picture of how things will look and work after the revolution has been won by the players?

[passedit]

Not put up or shut up Zulu. You have to put your case forward and if the decision goes with you well and good if it doesn't and you think they made the wrong decision then you have to persuade and influence opinions within that democracy. But if you're beat your beat and you have to accept it. Democracy rules
And if you don't give the administrators the respect they do deserve then guess what. The GAA society that has been constructed breaks. What are you gonna do then....seriously I'd love to know how the landscape would look like if the players got their way in this. As I've said the lesser of two evils

Democracies work better with fixed term offices to prevent them becoming dictatorships.

Do you think Frank accepted 'defeat' in 2002? You still haven't answered my question, were the players wrong in 2002?

I would contend that these administrators are getting exactly the respect they deserve.

[Zulu]

Skull your point about 'significant revenue' is without any supporting facts and Sean Og for one will do just fine after his playing days are over so there is no reason for this to be a motivating factor and anyway you ignore the fact that most of them don't get too many additional perks for being Cork hurlers. Again you suggest the younger Cork players are fools, most of these guys are 19 - 23 years of age and as someone who has coached educated young men like these I can assure you they don't follow anyone easily. You seem to dismiss out of hand that 30 men can all come to the same conclusion, i.e. this CB are f**king us around to get back the power they lost in the last two disputes, so we'd rather not play for them. From what I can gather your hypothesis is there are 3 or 4 players protecting their own additional 'significant revenues' and they have convinced the rest to risk their IC careers to support them. I don't buy that.

Not put up or shut up Zulu. You have to put your case forward and if the decision goes with you well and good if it doesn't and you think they made the wrong decision then you have to persuade and influence opinions within that democracy. But if you're beat your beat and you have to accept it. Democracy rules
And if you don't give the administrators the respect they do deserve then guess what. The GAA society that has been constructed breaks. What are you gonna do then....seriously I'd love to know how the landscape would look like if the players got their way in this. As I've said the lesser of two evils

Why does there have to be any evil let alone two? If I put my case before a committee who I know are acting in the best interests of the club and not out of any agenda against me then I will accept any decision they come to.  But if their motivation is simply to put me in my box and if worse again they're so blinded by their dislike of me that they make this decision even though it will hurt my club then no I don't have to accept democracy. I may not be able to do much about it but I wouldn't take it lying down, the CCB didn't act in the best interests of Cork GAA, which is their sole reason for existing, worse again the GAA are paying a man a healthy salary to run Cork GAA and he is no longer doing so with Cork GAA's best interests at heart. And you think the players are the bad guys? A paid official of the GAA is working against the best interests of his employers and you find little fault with him or his actions. That to me is amazing.

So paint the the picture of how things will look and work after the revolution has been won by the players?

This isn't Armageddon, but officials need to be accountable for their actions, the problem in the GAA isn't player power it is the mis-use of power by committees that are too often left unaccountable for their disastrous behaviour. Cork will come out of this a whole lot stronger because incompetent and small minded officialdom will be held accountable from now on down there. Well that's if the players come out on top, if the CB do well then, we can look forward to many more years of mediocrity where good GAA people won't open their mouth to criticize their CB's because it will get them nowhere.

[Reillers]

I do not want the players to follow the chain of command if they don't want to (no they are not not be sheep as I keep saying). The option for 99.999% of players is you walk away. My point is that walking away just isn't an option for individuals who earn these "privilages" as a by product of being a top intercounty hurler. So they have a vested interest in sticking around rather than going away quietly like 99.999% of people who get pissed off at their CB or the Manager. Thats why this stand off exists. Lets be real about that. Enough of this oul blarney about for the good of Cark hurling

I back the CCB yes because it is a democracy and so is without doubt the lesser of two evils. CB's need to have control to function properly. The GAA is a democratic orginisation (with flaws) and those structures are critical to the workings of it. All volunteers need to work within it. If a manager wants to get tracksuits for the players, it has to go through a meeting. If an invite is offered to a juvenile team for a weekend away, it gets put through a meeting. These decisions are yes'd and no'd all the time. On lots of occasions those concerned are far from happy at the decisions that this democracy makes, but they accept it or they walk away. 99.999% accept it is the way it is.

I also support GMcC fully as well as admire a man with his character for standing up to the players. He has brought a huge ammount to the game and does not deserve the ridicule spewed out in the media about his capabilities by certainly individuals. My belief is the main protaganists never gave him a chance because he had his own ideas and they didn't tie up with what the players had in mind.

I think Zulu got it bang on with reply to this.

And as for you're comment on democracy, I'll post this again....

"The claim that democracy has been honoured in Cork is also a contentious one, not for the first time. Power is centred on the executive, a small cabal, and most ordinary delegates are 'yes men' who tow the line. There are ways in which the system can be corrupted, as we saw recently in Meath, where a loophole was found to avoid giving the job to the man the majority of the selection panel wanted: Luke Dempsey.

Democracy is what it says on the tin; GAA democracy is another thing altogether. The more politicised players become, the more they're likely to revolt against the gombeenism that still thrives within much local administration. There's bound to be a lot more trouble ahead."

Like why should the players have to walk away if they're not the ones in the wrong. What you're saying is put up or shut up and be sheeps in the flock, despite denying it. You don't know anything about the Cork players, yet you blatantly insult legends that are Sean Og, a more of a sound gentleman you'll never meet, with no fact, no nothing, just your warped oppinion of the old as time GAA attitude. It goes back to you thinking that no matter what the players should toe the line or feck off, even if they're right. That fixes nothing, it only keeps the status quo in place which is part of the problem. There's a reason why the 30 man squad and about 20 other players refuse to play..maybe, God forbid that they have a point in there. It's not just what you spoiled brats, the likes of Donal Og and Sean Og..etc, it's a good chunk of fringe players who should be on the team after that 30. Do you ever wonder why?? Did ya ever think about that??

Toeing the line because it's "democracy" and the "chain of command" even when it's wrong, is the problem and people who think that should be continued are part of the problem.

I'd reply more but I think Zulu got it spot on.

[Reillers]

GAA introduce new disciplinary measures

on 16/12/2008 19:07:25


GAA:The GAA rules taskforce announced new disciplinary measures that will take effect during all inter-county competitions from January 1st, 2009. The most significant change will see a player who receives a yellow card get sent off and be replaced by one of six designated substitutes.

There are now up to seven and six different ways a player can receive a yellow card in hurling and football respectively - all of which fall under the guideline of "highly disruptive fouls". In hurling there are up to 16 red card and nine black card offences and 13 red plus nine black card offences in football.

Today's sanctions are considered the latest solution to ongoing disciplinary problems within the game. And rather than introducing the measures on a trial basis like the ill-fated sin-bin sanction in 2005, it is expected today's new rules will remain in place.       

"Three years ago (GAA Director of Games) Pat (Daly) almost had it right but we shirked our responsibilities that time and didn't follow through with it," said GAA taskforce chairman Liam O'Neill at today's announcement in Croke Park.

"We've allowed our games to become cynical and we've allowed our players to get away with fouling. We've allowed our managers to essentially train our players to foul because it pays to foul in the present system.

"We're saying, enough of that. It is time to change and we hope our presentation will be seen at this point in time as an effort to clean up our games. Essentially what we want to do is reclaim our games from those who want to destroy them with foul tactics," added O'Neill.



Na Skull, they're not being expected to act like pros and they are deffinetly not getting punished like you do in the pro game..wake up. Everything in this game is professional except it's name and the GAA set up with CB's and herarchy, which is ironic because they're the ones who are getting paid for it.

[orangeman]

I accept what you lads are saying but one stike was ok - 2 was testing enough - but 3 is taking the mick.



I know I've touched on this before and apologies for raising it again - but where are the footballlers ? The footballers went on strike last year and the hurlers were in like a shot. Is this a sign that they've learned the lessons from last year or dies it mean that they don't support the hurlers' cause or the strike itself ?


Again, apologies for raising the subject, but I've been waiting on a message of support from somebody in the footballing camp -


But there's nothing but silence.

[Reillers]

I accept what you lads are saying but one stike was ok - 2 was testing enough - but 3 is taking the mick.



I know I've touched on this before and apologies for raising it again - but where are the footballlers ? The footballers went on strike last year and the hurlers were in like a shot. Is this a sign that they've learned the lessons from last year or dies it mean that they don't support the hurlers' cause or the strike itself ?


Again, apologies for raising the subject, but I've been waiting on a message of support from somebody in the footballing camp -


But there's nothing but silence.

Last time I checked it was all square. If I recall the footballers went out on strike in 2002 in sympathy for the hurlers, the hurlers were paying them back in 06.

And you could also see it like, what's the point, the footballers weight on it wouldn't bare much except for numbers, the hurlers went out in sympathy with the footballers, knowing that this could happen and the  publick would loose patience with them, but the hurlers ended up becomming the face of the strike. At the end of the day, they hold more weight, more water, more strength to it. That's how some people see it anyway.
Others see it that..the footballers have a good manager who they are happy with, they don't want to screw up a good thing.