McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

I was, you were the one who despite what everyone had said continued to bitch and moan about the players. You made a statement, of which you know nothing about. It was the most ridiculous factless comment I've seen that was just made for the sake of whining about the playres. I'm being serious here now, not trying to insult you, but it was was the most factless comment I've read in a long time

Fine I did start it, I called you an idiot because you were acting like a complete idiot, I said that in my last post, but you're just stalling more time, trying to think of an answer, and yet you still haven't answered my question..just more and more changing of the subject.

[theskull1]

Good man 

Dinny Cahill and his Antrim team

Dinny after travelling 5 hours from Tipperary had planned to take the team for a training session in Casement Park. Both Players and Dinny arrived to casement park only to be told that the pitch was closed so as to give it a rest (the pitch is the most under utilised surface in Antrim....hence the best one) and were told that if they wanted to train they should "try" the council pitch up the road to see if it was available ( a soft sandy cut up dump of a pitch in a park where wino's go to drink on the nice summers evenings). Dinny and the players arrive to find the gates locked but park, get changed in the cars parked on the roadside in an area renowned for joyriders and all procede to climb over the security fencing just so they can get a hurling session carried out. Players and Dinny jump in their cars at the end of the session and everyone drives home. This has happened on a continual basis for years.


Now was that quick enough for you? Still don't know what relevance this has or if you will feel it "trumps" your story. The general question I asked earlier though still hasn't been addressed

[bottlethrower7]

Clearly John Allen might naturally favour the players, however I don't think he would publicly come out against the CB unless he truely believed they shared plenty of the blame. So to dismiss his article on the basis that it would be biased is ridiculous

John Allen is an Irish Times columnist, and has been for at least the last year or so. Its not like hes just popped his head out from obscurity to voice an opinion on this issue.

What Allen says could be true, but to me he is not the most objective commentator on the issue and for that reason I would take what he says with a pinch of salt.

[billy the kid]

I was, you were the one who despite what everyone had said continued to bitch and moan about the players. You made a statement, of which you know nothing about. It was the most ridiculous factless comment I've seen that was just made for the sake of whining about the playres. I'm being serious here now, not trying to insult you, but it was was the most factless comment I've read in a long time

Fine I did start it, I called you an idiot because you were acting like a complete idiot, I said that in my last post, but you're just stalling more time, trying to think of an answer, and yet you still haven't answered my question..just more and more changing of the subject.

I dont think the Cork players and their media mates count as everyone.  

I have yet to speak to any Hurling or even GAA supporter who thinks the Cork players are doing the right thing. I admit I have not spoken to every single GAA supporter in the world but have spoken to club players, County players, 2 chaimen, and plenty of ordinary supporters and have yet to hear anyone think yous are doing the right thing. The majority of posters on here also appear to think yous are yet again bringing a hand grenade to a fist fight and many think the players are after their own agenda not a Cork Hurling agenda.  Im sure the cork county board like most county boards like to feel in control but it would also appear that the cork players unlike most players want to run the show and be the star attracion.

The posters on here who are supporting the players stance, and some are obviously Cork players, (eh Donal Og) cannot be taken seriously if they are gonna take the moral high ground and  complain that other posters who disagree with the players are being disrespectful, degrading and abusive and then abuse, insult and chastise these other posters in the next breath (line) Practice what you preach

You asked for an example of a County team that gets treated worse than the Cork boys - Let me present the Derry Hurlers

Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left

Replacement Hurls are not supplied for sticks broken in training

Replacement Hurls that are supplied after games are picked out by a DCB member who has never played hurling and is openly hostile to the game and players. Lads tell him what size they want and he goes and gets it if you dont think its a good stick or its too light/heavy tough, its take it or leave it as another will not be issued.

Physio provision and team doctor provision again is only available if footballers are training on the same night and only after footballers are finished meaning only a couple of hulers will get chance to be seen each night resulting in players having to sort themselves out alot of the time through club or at own expense.

Derry won the U21 ulster hurling championship this year when all the experts said Antrim would walk it. After the clinching game the players were in the changing room going mad (as you would winning a provincial title against all the odds) and in walks the county chairman and he asks to speak to the players. everyone quietens down expecting him to congratulate them. However the chairman proceeds to tell them that they must return all the jerseys and kit and under no circumstances were they to take them home. Not one word of congratulations were uttered.  To top things of, as he left the changing room he informed the kit man that if any jerseys or kit were missing he would be sent a bill for them. The kits werent even a new set they were the design from a couple of years ago but at least it was nearly a full set (22 out of 24)

For the U21 All-Ireland Semi-final the DCB refused point blank to supply new kits or jerseys and on the night before the game the manager and the kit man had to make a complete set up from 5 different sets of old kits missing numbers. Some of these were long sleeved some were short, all 5 kits were a different style and socks and shorts could only be found for first 15 with rest of panel told to bring their own.

County board also refused to let team stay over night before meaning the team had to travel 5 hours on the morning of the match to play the game.

The U21 manager spoke out about these things and was hit with a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge.  

DCB Ulster council hurling representative was asked at an Ulster council meeting "how hurling was being supported in Derry and what more could be done by the Derry County Board" he duly told the whole and complete truth and the other Ulster council members were aghast but reassured by the other Derry members who said that not to worry mistakes had been made and that they would sort it out. well sort it out they did the hurling rep was "relieved of his duties" at the next DCB meeting and now we dont have a hurling rep as they have done away with that position.

And its not just Hurling they treat poorly, although they see it as a nuisance and would gladly cease all support if they thought they could get away with it, football also has suffered.

Last year the Derry Minor football manager was given 6 footballs to train the team - he had to arrange sponsorship to buy more balls.

The Minor Footballers had great difficult in getting a pitch to train on

He had arranged a training trip for the panel that included an overnight stay that had been agreed with the DCB at the start of the year - but a week before it was due to take place the DCB said NO and told him to cancel it. Again the manager went and arranged sponsorship to cover the cost of the trip.

The DCB then proceeded to tell the manager of for going over their heads. Where most would see "Ingenuity" they saw "Insobordination"

When the season finished The manager spoke out about these things and said they had made the job harder than it should have been.

What was the DCBs response? He too was given  a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge.

The manager (who is widely regarded as one of the best young managers around) has now walked away from Derry football (is now involved with one of our neighbours) and has said he wont be involved again until some major changes happen.


Are the \Cork players treated worse than this?

I could sit here all day typing up examples within my own county and other county teams III know about but No matter what examples are given Ive the feeling that The Cork Players on this board will still feel they are the victims. Yous are one of the better treated teams.  

[Reillers]

Good man 

Dinny Cahill and his Antrim team

Dinny after travelling 5 hours from Tipperary had planned to take the team for a training session in Casement Park. Both Players and Dinny arrived to casement park only to be told that the pitch was closed so as to give it a rest (the pitch is the most under utilised surface in Antrim....hence the best one) and were told that if they wanted to train they should "try" the council pitch up the road to see if it was available ( a soft sandy cut up dump of a pitch in a park where wino's go to drink on the nice summers evenings). Dinny and the players arrive to find the gates locked but park, get changed in the cars parked on the roadside in an area renowned for joyriders and all procede to climb over the security fencing just so they can get a hurling session carried out. Players and Dinny jump in their cars at the end of the session and everyone drives home. This has happened on a continual basis for years.


Now was that quick enough for you? Still don't know what relevance this has or if you will feel it "trumps" your story. The general question I asked earlier though still hasn't been addressed

Christ how long did it take you to google that. That was one incident, one bouch up.  
You said 95%..that's one example, so I'd be wanting about 20/25 more examples but at the rate it took you make up, sorry I mean find that I wouldn't expect any example before Christmas.
IF this happened on a continual basis for years they really should have done something about it, at this stage the Cork players would have gotten something themselves. I fail to believe that it happens EVERY year it happens and they do nothing about it.
You said 95%, you gave me one example of a board, doing one thing, with no proof backing up what you say, and I'm supposed to be impressed and say you're right. 95% is what you said, so give me a hell lot more examples.

What was the question you asked ealier.

[Reillers]

Clearly John Allen might naturally favour the players, however I don't think he would publicly come out against the CB unless he truely believed they shared plenty of the blame. So to dismiss his article on the basis that it would be biased is ridiculous

John Allen is an Irish Times columnist, and has been for at least the last year or so. Its not like hes just popped his head out from obscurity to voice an opinion on this issue.

What Allen says could be true, but to me he is not the most objective commentator on the issue and for that reason I would take what he says with a pinch of salt.

The only people who know the inside are people close to the camp, like manangers, who do ye want to hear it from before you believe it.

[billy the kid]

Good man 

Dinny Cahill and his Antrim team

Dinny after travelling 5 hours from Tipperary had planned to take the team for a training session in Casement Park. Both Players and Dinny arrived to casement park only to be told that the pitch was closed so as to give it a rest (the pitch is the most under utilised surface in Antrim....hence the best one) and were told that if they wanted to train they should "try" the council pitch up the road to see if it was available ( a soft sandy cut up dump of a pitch in a park where wino's go to drink on the nice summers evenings). Dinny and the players arrive to find the gates locked but park, get changed in the cars parked on the roadside in an area renowned for joyriders and all procede to climb over the security fencing just so they can get a hurling session carried out. Players and Dinny jump in their cars at the end of the session and everyone drives home. This has happened on a continual basis for years.


Now was that quick enough for you? Still don't know what relevance this has or if you will feel it "trumps" your story. The general question I asked earlier though still hasn't been addressed

Christ how long did it take you to google that. That was one incident, one bouch up.  
You said 95%..that's one example, so I'd be wanting about 20/25 more examples but at the rate it took you make up, sorry I mean find that I wouldn't expect any example before Christmas.
IF this happened on a continual basis for years they really should have done something about it, at this stage the Cork players would have gotten something themselves. I fail to believe that it happens EVERY year it happens and they do nothing about it.
You said 95%, you gave me one example of a board, doing one thing, with no proof backing up what you say, and I'm supposed to be impressed and say you're right. 95% is what you said, so give me a hell lot more examples.

What was the question you asked ealier.

You keep going on about Proof. Wheres all the proof for the bad treatment of the Cork Players, McCarthys bad management, CCB sins?  You have supplied no proof of anything yet and are we supposed to just accept everything you say because you are obviously a Cork player.

[Zulu]

Well if you can't beat them join em 

Look I can't find fault in any questions you're asking about why wasn't there more men coming forward to take the job. Very valid and the CCB along with the selection committee should be a bit more transparent about why that was not the case. But do you not agree that there is not a sense here that the position the players have taken here is that they believe they should have the veto over who will manage them whilst at the same time refusing to accept any responsibility for the past two years?

The stance and language the players have chosen has meant that themselves and the scribes are plowing a lone furrow. They have lost the room

That reply was to Zulu BTW

I wouldn't agree with that, I do believe that if there were a number of choices available and the two player representitive felt that 2 or 3 of them were suitable they would have supported whatever chice the other 5 rowed in behind. From what I know this is how it appears to have paned out.

- A 7 man committee is formed with 5 CB men and 2 players
- The 2 player reps at some point in proceedings tell the other 5 that Gerald isn't up to it and they wouldn't be happy with him continuing as manager.(They probably assume he won't go for the job anyway given the results etc.)
- The CB come back and tell the lads ' guess what we ahve only one candidate and it's Gerald'.
- The players respond with something like this...' so you are telling us that nobody else has any interest at all in the Cork job, did ye sound anyone out, did the clubs have any time to put forward nominations, was an outsider considered for the post and are you not taking any heed of our opinion that Gerald isn't up to it and if not why....his results over the past two years? Frank, you must be havin a laugh!'
- CB...' Yeah no lads, we're very happy with Gerald, in our (expert) opinion a history of poor results, some average performances and player discontent with the manager is the perfect recipie for on field success. Now go get them Kilkenny feckers'
- the 2 player reps look at each other and mutter th eimmortal words..'f**k this we're off'
- CB board lads look at each other with a degree of self satisfaction thinking 'we've got em now boys we have got the f**kers now'.

Note: All characters and events are based on what I think might have transpired any similarity to real people or actual events is purely because I think that is probably what happened!

[Reillers]

Good man 

Dinny Cahill and his Antrim team

Dinny after travelling 5 hours from Tipperary had planned to take the team for a training session in Casement Park. Both Players and Dinny arrived to casement park only to be told that the pitch was closed so as to give it a rest (the pitch is the most under utilised surface in Antrim....hence the best one) and were told that if they wanted to train they should "try" the council pitch up the road to see if it was available ( a soft sandy cut up dump of a pitch in a park where wino's go to drink on the nice summers evenings). Dinny and the players arrive to find the gates locked but park, get changed in the cars parked on the roadside in an area renowned for joyriders and all procede to climb over the security fencing just so they can get a hurling session carried out. Players and Dinny jump in their cars at the end of the session and everyone drives home. This has happened on a continual basis for years.


Now was that quick enough for you? Still don't know what relevance this has or if you will feel it "trumps" your story. The general question I asked earlier though still hasn't been addressed

Christ how long did it take you to google that. That was one incident, one bouch up.  
You said 95%..that's one example, so I'd be wanting about 20/25 more examples but at the rate it took you make up, sorry I mean find that I wouldn't expect any example before Christmas.
IF this happened on a continual basis for years they really should have done something about it, at this stage the Cork players would have gotten something themselves. I fail to believe that it happens EVERY year it happens and they do nothing about it.
You said 95%, you gave me one example of a board, doing one thing, with no proof backing up what you say, and I'm supposed to be impressed and say you're right. 95% is what you said, so give me a hell lot more examples.

What was the question you asked ealier.

You keep going on about Proof. Wheres all the proof for the bad treatment of the Cork Players, McCarthys bad management, CCB sins?  You have supplied no proof of anything yet and are we supposed to just accept everything you say because you are obviously a Cork player.

It's been written and noted back in 2002. Turning up at one ground and being tod actually that's being used tonight, it's all noted and documented, and because they went on strike it's well known.
You don't want to believe what I say, how about the 30 plus players who went on strike because of it, and that managers that can back them up.
Is that enough? I'm sure I can find articles to back that up as well if ye like.

[Reillers]

Well if you can't beat them join em 

Look I can't find fault in any questions you're asking about why wasn't there more men coming forward to take the job. Very valid and the CCB along with the selection committee should be a bit more transparent about why that was not the case. But do you not agree that there is not a sense here that the position the players have taken here is that they believe they should have the veto over who will manage them whilst at the same time refusing to accept any responsibility for the past two years?

The stance and language the players have chosen has meant that themselves and the scribes are plowing a lone furrow. They have lost the room

That reply was to Zulu BTW

I wouldn't agree with that, I do believe that if there were a number of choices available and the two player representitive felt that 2 or 3 of them were suitable they would have supported whatever chice the other 5 rowed in behind. From what I know this is how it appears to have paned out.

- A 7 man committee is formed with 5 CB men and 2 players
- The 2 player reps at some point in proceedings tell the other 5 that Gerald isn't up to it and they wouldn't be happy with him continuing as manager.(They probably assume he won't go for the job anyway given the results etc.)
- The CB come back and tell the lads ' guess what we ahve only one candidate and it's Gerald'.
- The players respond with something like this...' so you are telling us that nobody else has any interest at all in the Cork job, did ye sound anyone out, did the clubs have any time to put forward nominations, was an outsider considered for the post and are you not taking any heed of our opinion that Gerald isn't up to it and if not why....his results over the past two years? Frank, you must be havin a laugh!'
- CB...' Yeah no lads, we're very happy with Gerald, in our (expert) opinion a history of poor results, some average performances and player discontent with the manager is the perfect recipie for on field success. Now go get them Kilkenny feckers'
- the 2 player reps look at each other and mutter th eimmortal words..'f**k this we're off'
- CB board lads look at each other with a degree of self satisfaction thinking 'we've got em now boys we have got the f**kers now'.

Note: All characters and events are based on what I think might have transpired any similarity to real people or actual events is purely because I think that is probably what happened!

You forgot to mention the fact that the CCB thought they were unlucky that they didn't beat Kilkenny. Unlucky..10 points isn't unlucky it's a trashing.

[billy the kid]

Well if you can't beat them join em 

Look I can't find fault in any questions you're asking about why wasn't there more men coming forward to take the job. Very valid and the CCB along with the selection committee should be a bit more transparent about why that was not the case. But do you not agree that there is not a sense here that the position the players have taken here is that they believe they should have the veto over who will manage them whilst at the same time refusing to accept any responsibility for the past two years?

The stance and language the players have chosen has meant that themselves and the scribes are plowing a lone furrow. They have lost the room

That reply was to Zulu BTW

I wouldn't agree with that, I do believe that if there were a number of choices available and the two player representitive felt that 2 or 3 of them were suitable they would have supported whatever chice the other 5 rowed in behind. From what I know this is how it appears to have paned out.

- A 7 man committee is formed with 5 CB men and 2 players
- The 2 player reps at some point in proceedings tell the other 5 that Gerald isn't up to it and they wouldn't be happy with him continuing as manager.(They probably assume he won't go for the job anyway given the results etc.)
- The CB come back and tell the lads ' guess what we ahve only one candidate and it's Gerald'.
- The players respond with something like this...' so you are telling us that nobody else has any interest at all in the Cork job, did ye sound anyone out, did the clubs have any time to put forward nominations, was an outsider considered for the post and are you not taking any heed of our opinion that Gerald isn't up to it and if not why....his results over the past two years? Frank, you must be havin a laugh!'
- CB...' Yeah no lads, we're very happy with Gerald, in our (expert) opinion a history of poor results, some average performances and player discontent with the manager is the perfect recipie for on field success. Now go get them Kilkenny feckers'
- the 2 player reps look at each other and mutter th eimmortal words..'f**k this we're off'
- CB board lads look at each other with a degree of self satisfaction thinking 'we've got em now boys we have got the f**kers now'.

Note: All characters and events are based on what I think might have transpired any similarity to real people or actual events is purely because I think that is probably what happened!

that last bit leaves alot to the imagination.

Why dont you PM Donal Og and his teammate (GAA and Reillers )and find out.

[EddieMerx]

Could have been asked already and answered but are the Cork players going on their annual junket this year?

[Glensman]

I was, you were the one who despite what everyone had said continued to bitch and moan about the players. You made a statement, of which you know nothing about. It was the most ridiculous factless comment I've seen that was just made for the sake of whining about the playres. I'm being serious here now, not trying to insult you, but it was was the most factless comment I've read in a long time

Fine I did start it, I called you an idiot because you were acting like a complete idiot, I said that in my last post, but you're just stalling more time, trying to think of an answer, and yet you still haven't answered my question..just more and more changing of the subject.

I dont think the Cork players and their media mates count as everyone.  

I have yet to speak to any Hurling or even GAA supporter who thinks the Cork players are doing the right thing. I admit I have not spoken to every single GAA supporter in the world but have spoken to club players, County players, 2 chaimen, and plenty of ordinary supporters and have yet to hear anyone think yous are doing the right thing. The majority of posters on here also appear to think yous are yet again bringing a hand grenade to a fist fight and many think the players are after their own agenda not a Cork Hurling agenda.  Im sure the cork county board like most county boards like to feel in control but it would also appear that the cork players unlike most players want to run the show and be the star attracion.

The posters on here who are supporting the players stance, and some are obviously Cork players, (eh Donal Og) cannot be taken seriously if they are gonna take the moral high ground and  complain that other posters who disagree with the players are being disrespectful, degrading and abusive and then abuse, insult and chastise these other posters in the next breath (line) Practice what you preach

You asked for an example of a County team that gets treated worse than the Cork boys - Let me present the Derry Hurlers

Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left

Replacement Hurls are not supplied for sticks broken in training

Replacement Hurls that are supplied after games are picked out by a DCB member who has never played hurling and is openly hostile to the game and players. Lads tell him what size they want and he goes and gets it if you dont think its a good stick or its too light/heavy tough, its take it or leave it as another will not be issued.

Physio provision and team doctor provision again is only available if footballers are training on the same night and only after footballers are finished meaning only a couple of hulers will get chance to be seen each night resulting in players having to sort themselves out alot of the time through club or at own expense.

Derry won the U21 ulster hurling championship this year when all the experts said Antrim would walk it. After the clinching game the players were in the changing room going mad (as you would winning a provincial title against all the odds) and in walks the county chairman and he asks to speak to the players. everyone quietens down expecting him to congratulate them. However the chairman proceeds to tell them that they must return all the jerseys and kit and under no circumstances were they to take them home. Not one word of congratulations were uttered.  To top things of, as he left the changing room he informed the kit man that if any jerseys or kit were missing he would be sent a bill for them. The kits werent even a new set they were the design from a couple of years ago but at least it was nearly a full set (22 out of 24)

For the U21 All-Ireland Semi-final the DCB refused point blank to supply new kits or jerseys and on the night before the game the manager and the kit man had to make a complete set up from 5 different sets of old kits missing numbers. Some of these were long sleeved some were short, all 5 kits were a different style and socks and shorts could only be found for first 15 with rest of panel told to bring their own.

County board also refused to let team stay over night before meaning the team had to travel 5 hours on the morning of the match to play the game.

The U21 manager spoke out about these things and was hit with a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge.  

DCB Ulster council hurling representative was asked at an Ulster council meeting "how hurling was being supported in Derry and what more could be done by the Derry County Board" he duly told the whole and complete truth and the other Ulster council members were aghast but reassured by the other Derry members who said that not to worry mistakes had been made and that they would sort it out. well sort it out they did the hurling rep was "relieved of his duties" at the next DCB meeting and now we dont have a hurling rep as they have done away with that position.

And its not just Hurling they treat poorly, although they see it as a nuisance and would gladly cease all support if they thought they could get away with it, football also has suffered.

Last year the Derry Minor football manager was given 6 footballs to train the team - he had to arrange sponsorship to buy more balls.

The Minor Footballers had great difficult in getting a pitch to train on

He had arranged a training trip for the panel that included an overnight stay that had been agreed with the DCB at the start of the year - but a week before it was due to take place the DCB said NO and told him to cancel it. Again the manager went and arranged sponsorship to cover the cost of the trip.

The DCB then proceeded to tell the manager of for going over their heads. Where most would see "Ingenuity" they saw "Insobordination"

When the season finished The manager spoke out about these things and said they had made the job harder than it should have been.

What was the DCBs response? He too was given  a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge.

The manager (who is widely regarded as one of the best young managers around) has now walked away from Derry football (is now involved with one of our neighbours) and has said he wont be involved again until some major changes happen.


Are the \Cork players treated worse than this?

I could sit here all day typing up examples within my own county and other county teams III know about but No matter what examples are given Ive the feeling that The Cork Players on this board will still feel they are the victims. Yous are one of the better treated teams.  

Do you have no response to any of this Reillers?

Good post Billy - you only realise when its written down like that what you're up against.

[Reillers]

"Derry county board dont supply food after training unless the footballers are training on the same night and even then the footballers go first and hurlers basically get whats left."

..Ye get food at training, our lads don't.

"Replacement Hurls are not supplied for sticks broken in training."
Back in 2002 the players spent half the time trying to find a ground, and they'd to bring their own gear..break it get another one.

"Physio provision and team doctor provision again is only available if footballers are training on the same night and only after footballers are finished meaning only a couple of hulers will get chance to be seen each night resulting in players having to sort themselves out alot of the time through club or at own expense."
Cork was the same till the strike, they'd rarely ever a physio for the players and they'd to sort themselves out..

Look I'll be hear all day if I have to answer a situation for all of those situation. IF a board is treating them as bad as that why don't they do something about it. I could and will if you want me to.

But it's not about measuring things up to eachother, it's about taking a stand, it's about not putting up with treatment like that. It's not right it's not fair.

And Glensman when I or any Cork supporter on here wrties what happens behind the scenes then we're told oh it's not that bad. It's only a plate of sandwhices or a once of bust up. But this gets sympathy. At the end of the day people don't realise what teams who get treated like this including Cork are up against. It doesn't matter if it's a friendly or if they're a team expected to be in the final each year.

If there's problem, stand up, don't let Cork be the only ones who do it. If that's true, then ye should have sympathy of what we've to put up with, seeing as ye do to.

Like I said, it's not about who's in a worse position it's about doing something about it. So do something about it because quiet frankly I'm sick of Cork being the only ones who step up and seeing very good players who've to go to work everyday getting slammed and ridiculed in and by the press.

People think that we should just shut up or put up. If ye're in the same situation then you know that's it's not good enough and that we shouldn't have to. There's a line.
If ye're getting treated that badly make a stand, like we did in 02. It changed things for the better, a massive difference, fine the board are trying to bring us  back to those days and claw back every little piece of power that was given to the players back them.

[cornafean]

People think that we should just shut up or put up. If ye're in the same situation then you know that's it's not good enough and that we shouldn't have to. There's a line.

Very telling use of the word "we"?