McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

Interesting to hear Daithi Regan and Mark Landers on Newstalk about this - Regan got stuck in as usual and insisted that Donal Og was lucky to still be the Cork keeper after his displays this year particularly getting sent off against Galway. Both agreed that Donal Og should retire as should Frank Murphy although Regan insisted there was no chance of this happening. Landers made the point that McCarthy doesnt have the respect of the players and should have gone - he seemed to be blaming the training for Corks failure to stay with Kilkenny (surely a highly optimistic view?). Regan made the point that Kilkenny are a much better side and have brought younger players on and that basically the players should take a good look at themselves - also argued that not everything McCarthy did was wrong and strongly suggested that players should just play.

The interesting thing for me was that Landers seemed to have little sympathy this time - while auguring that McCarthy should have gone he seemed to think this was a step too far. Interesting given his role in 2002. Landers also expected the players not to play for McCarthy and that Cork hurling will be set back 10 years.If Cork implode you'd have to think that 5 in a row is on - at least.

Would Landers be close to the players ? I'd expect he'd have some insight into their minds - it looks like this will be a massive collision course with both sides determined to have a head on crash.


As usual there's conflicting points of view on who is right and who is wrong.

[Uladh]

As usual there's conflicting points of view on who is right and who is wrong.

Brilliant.


if we follow the likely routes then we could be looking at McCarthy attempting to field a 3rd or 4th string team to be stubborn.
would they find 20/22 hurlers in cork willing to go against the wishes of the current senior players? i doubt it.

surely a compromise might involve adding a trainer/ coach to McCarthy's set up?

[orangeman]

As usual there's conflicting points of view on who is right and who is wrong.

Brilliant.


if we follow the likely routes then we could be looking at McCarthy attempting to field a 3rd or 4th string team to be stubborn.
would they find 20/22 hurlers in cork willing to go against the wishes of the current senior players? i doubt it.

surely a compromise might involve adding a trainer/ coach to McCarthy's set up?

[/b][/i]

That would be a common sense approach but unfortunately, given the biterness that permeates everything in Cork GAA, these common sense solutions will not be considered.

My way or the highway in the case of Mc Carthy and the team seem resigned to packing it in or at least threatening to pack it in.

[orangeman]

The County hurling squad are once again at loggerheads with the county board, after captain Ben O'Connor confirmed that the entire playing squad will not play under manager Gerald McCarthy.

O'Connor has laid the blame for the second stand-off this year firmly at the door of the County Board.

The Rebels' skipper described the process of appointing the manager as 'farcical' and a set up for the players who had gained concessions to be part of the selection process in their strike action earlier this year.

Its alleged the two player representatives went to a meeting of the selection committee to choose a manager after only for the five other county board representatives to propose that McCarthy be re-appointed for another two years, with no-one else was mentioned.

'This panel are ready to go the whole distance, we're ready to pull out, tell them to work away next year,' O'Connor told the Irish Examiner.

'If there's a new management team after that, and if we're wanted back again, then no bother, but as it stands, we're having nothing to do with the current set-up.'

O'Connor has also claimed that younger players had received unwelcome phone calls advising then to return to the panel or 'it would not look good for them for the future'.

The GAA President Nicky Brennan has expressed his disappointment with the news, but confirmed that Croke Park would not get involved in trying to find a resolution to the situation.



Looks like that Nicky is fed up as well.

[The GAA]

As well as cork hurlers?

it's a disappointing state of affairs but that article probably outlines what will happen. McCarthy will probably put together a weakened squad to fulfill the fixtures for the year.

[bottlethrower7]

is the irony of all this not lost on Cusack? As per usual for the time of year hes at loggerheads with Frank Murphy, while all the while hes turning into the next version of him, albeit with slightly contrasting views. The future of Cork GAA is very grim indeed. Murphy gets too old and steps aside, Cusack will take on the mantle of being the awkward power-mad obstacle for any kind of progress to ever take place.

And regardless of what Cusack's views on the current impasse are, hes single-handedly responsible for how militant the players are. He has a lot to answer for. Hes poisoned the games by his presence and the sooner he disappears back off playing tennis the better for everyone.

[Reillers]

is the irony of all this not lost on Cusack? As per usual for the time of year hes at loggerheads with Frank Murphy, while all the while hes turning into the next version of him, albeit with slightly contrasting views. The future of Cork GAA is very grim indeed. Murphy gets too old and steps aside, Cusack will take on the mantle of being the awkward power-mad obstacle for any kind of progress to ever take place.

And regardless of what Cusack's views on the current impasse are, hes single-handedly responsible for how militant the players are. He has a lot to answer for. Hes poisoned the games by his presence and the sooner he disappears back off playing tennis the better for everyone.

[/b]

See the reason why Cork came out all guns all blazzing after Donal Og got sent off is because he has taken so much abuse for them over the years. He's the one with the head above the parapet. He had done so much for them in the past. He's been the hate figure, they all shared the same oppinion but he was the one who gets the crap from the media from fans up and down the country. He's been the hate figure on behalf of the team, despite the fact that everyone else had shared his opinion.

So not only is it out line what you said, it's not true. No one tries to sway anyone on this team, it's all their own oppinion, secret ballads..etc. Donal Og is not at the head of this. He's involved but no more so then the twins, Sean Og, Sully..etc.
He's poisoned the game..that's just insulting to someone who's given so much to the game. So much to his club, and county and hurling in general.
He's got nothing to do with how millitant the players are. They all think for themselves, you're naive if you think that it's Donal Og leading them by a string. They do things right.
They are putting no pressure on the kids in the squad, but lets just say that the younger players have been getting phone calls suggesting that they should go back.

He's not influencing anyone the sooner people realise that then maybe the sooner people will except that it's not just one person. It's a squad of 30 players.

[Rebel In The Kingdom]

Landers also expected the players not to play for McCarthy and that Cork hurling will be set back 10 years.

If Cork implode you'd have to think that 5 in a row is on - at least.

Nooooooooooooooooooo ... don't tell me I'm going to have to shout for Tipp  (swallow hard..) to stop the cats in the meantime - say it ain't so Joe..

Nothing good comes out of this. McCarthy, stung into stubbornness seems to have has decided to stay the course. Assuming nothing else changes, then a host of legends walk away and Cork hurling is forced to rebuild from a base far lower that anyone in the county could want - Year 0 here we come.



One thing strikes me (no pun intended..) & consider this for a moment   - why does only one name go forward for consideration for Cork hurling manager?? It doesn't cross the collective consciousness that an alternative should at least be considered?

Would that be credible in Kerry or Kilkenny if the incumbent manager's record was of a similar nature - no AI appearance, no MF honours - no silverware at all... Why would a county board committee entrusted with finding the best manager to bring hurling success to Cork, only consider one candidate when that one candidate is the incumbent with a average enough managerial record ? If it's even possible for a moment, set aside your personal opinions on Cork, Donal Og, Frank, the GPA etc  and ask yourself was that the best way to fill the position? I'm not saying that Gerard McCarthy should not have been selected but best practice (and common sense) dicate that alternatives should have been considered.

[cornafean]

One thing strikes me (no pun intended..) & consider this for a moment   - why does only one name go forward for consideration for Cork hurling manager?? It doesn't cross the collective consciousness that an alternative should at least be considered?

Would that be credible in Kerry or Kilkenny if the incumbent manager's record was of a similar nature - no AI appearance, no MF honours - no silverware at all... ... I'm not saying that Gerard McCarthy should not have been selected but best practice (and common sense) dicate that alternatives should have been considered.

But it is quite normal and commonplace for sitting managers to be returned unopposed for another term? And presumably any club in any county that wants to nominate a challenger for a management position is entitled to do so, even if an incumbent holds the position already? Even Kilkenny and Kerry have been known to retain managers in years when they won nothing.

[INDIANA]

Reillers until you accept that at least 5 senior players HAVE to step down, that frank murphy and CO Have to retire and gerald mc carthy steps down the problem won't be solved and this debate is going nowhere. But none of the above 3 are negoitiable or mutually exclusive they all have to happen.
None of the above figures are bigger than Cork hurling and until all 3 parties realise this and remove themselves from the process then Cork can get whatever is coming to them as far as I'm concerned. Its not up to the rest of the country to look after your affairs anymore. The problem appears to be a lot of people who a) plain don;t like each other b) are all used to getting their own way.
There is no solution to this except the above, because leaving any of the three parties involved leaves it odds on to rear its ugly head again soon. We're not holding our competitions anymore to suit you guys. So sort it out.

[Reillers]

Reillers until you accept that at least 5 senior players HAVE to step down, that frank murphy and CO Have to retire and gerald mc carthy steps down the problem won't be solved and this debate is going nowhere. But none of the above 3 are negoitiable or mutually exclusive they all have to happen.
None of the above figures are bigger than Cork hurling and until all 3 parties realise this and remove themselves from the process then Cork can get whatever is coming to them as far as I'm concerned. Its not up to the rest of the country to look after your affairs anymore. The problem appears to be a lot of people who a) plain don;t like each other b) are all used to getting their own way.
There is no solution to this except the above, because leaving any of the three parties involved leaves it odds on to rear its ugly head again soon. We're not holding our competitions anymore to suit you guys. So sort it out.

I know that.
I think the best thing would be for Donal Og and Frank Murphy to retire.
The players are willing to take the hit, but Murphy wouldn't, he wont. Even if it was for the good of Cork GAA.

[Reillers]

Landers calls on Og Cusack, Murphy resignations

29 October 2008

Former All-Ireland winning Cork hurling captain Mark Landers has called on goalkeeper Donal Og Cusack and county secretary Frank Murphy to step down from their respective positions in a bid to end the current impasse.

The entire Cork panel has opted to make itself unavailable for the 2009 campaign if controversial boss Gerald McCarthy remains in charge of team affairs.

And Landers, who lifted the Liam McCarthy Cup in 1999, sees the unseemly row as a clash of personalities between Cusack and Murphy - insisting that Cork hurling would be better served if the pair stepped back from the front-line.

Speaking on Newstalk's Off The Ball on Tuesday night, Landers said: "Obviously it's well documented at this stage that there is a huge power struggle taking place in Cork hurling at the moment, and there are two individuals involved: Donal Og Cusack on the hurling side and Frank Murphy on the County Board side of it.

"I would definitely think at this stage that, for Cork hurling in particular, that those two people need to be taken apart and step aside from the responsibilities they've been given for the last number of years, for the betterment of Cork hurling.

"I think Donal Og Cusack should retire at this stage and I also think Frank Murphy should retire from secretary of the County Board."

Landers also poured scorn on the management ability of Gerald McCarthy, accusing him of lacking basic knowledge of the Cork hurling panel.

"Timmy McCarthy, this year, was talking to Gerald McCarthy, and Bride Rovers had played a championship match on a Friday night and Brian Murphy scored a goal to equalise it. Gerald said to Timmy 'God, ye had a close escape last night', and Timmy informed him 'Gerald I don't know what you're on about. I play with Castlelyons, not with Bride Rovers'.

"When you have an inter-county manager who doesn't even know where his players play, and what club they play for, I think that's a desperate indictment of the individual to be honest."

[theskull1]

What do you think we can learn from Ben's comments in the examiner (hearing snippets from it)? Has he let the cat out of the bag ?

[bottlethrower7]

See the reason why Cork came out all guns all blazzing after Donal Og got sent off is because he has taken so much abuse for them over the years. He's the one with the head above the parapet. He had done so much for them in the past. He's been the hate figure, they all shared the same oppinion but he was the one who gets the crap from the media from fans up and down the country. He's been the hate figure on behalf of the team, despite the fact that everyone else had shared his opinion.

So not only is it out line what you said, it's not true. No one tries to sway anyone on this team, it's all their own oppinion, secret ballads..etc. Donal Og is not at the head of this. He's involved but no more so then the twins, Sean Og, Sully..etc.
He's poisoned the game..that's just insulting to someone who's given so much to the game. So much to his club, and county and hurling in general.
He's got nothing to do with how millitant the players are. They all think for themselves, you're naive if you think that it's Donal Og leading them by a string. They do things right.
They are putting no pressure on the kids in the squad, but lets just say that the younger players have been getting phone calls suggesting that they should go back.

He's not influencing anyone the sooner people realise that then maybe the sooner people will except that it's not just one person. It's a squad of 30 players.

don't get me wrong here. I'm fully aware of the commitment Donal Og has given to Cork hurling on the field, and I think its nothing less than admirable. And whether hes a hate figure or not has nothing whatsoever to do with that. If indeed Donal Og is a hate figure (your words, not mine), its because of off-field antics. Its because of his obvious militancy (and don't make me laugh with this players can think for themselves rubbish - none of this would be going on but for him), its because of his wanting to make GAA a professional sport (hence my 'poison the game' comments which were from out of line in my opinion), its because of things like socks-down during the pre-match parade antics. I read the story about Mark Landers calling for Cusack to step down. Mark Landers is a man I'd have whole-hearted respect for. He was at the helm for the first players strike way back when, and how even hes calling for Cusack to cop himself on.

Donal Og not influencing people? Thats the most ludicrous thing I've heard in ages.

But that all aside, heres a suggestion to resolve all this. Let the players do what they want. If Cork can't field in next year's championship, so be it, let them give a walkover. Lets see how public opinion in Cork is then, and lets see the impact it has. The actions of the Cork players can only succeed if they have public sympathies. One feels that they don't have them at the minute and whatever sympathies they do have are quickly dwindling. Cork are a proud GAA county. Cork is full of people steeped in the traditions of the organisation. Cork people know what makes the GAA unique. Cork people know what can harm those values and hence the organisation. Cork people aren't stupid and know that certain players (spearheaded by one in particular) are seeking to undermine those values.

What would the great Christy Ring and Jack Lynch think of this one wonders?

And I commend Nicky Brennan for saying the GAA will stay out of this. Its up to Cork to sort this themselves once and for all. A satisfactory resolution can't but involve the stepping down of both players and county board officials. For the sake of all the decent GAA people in Cork, I hope that happens sooner rather than later.

[Rebel In The Kingdom]

One thing strikes me (no pun intended..) & consider this for a moment   - why does only one name go forward for consideration for Cork hurling manager?? It doesn't cross the collective consciousness that an alternative should at least be considered?

Would that be credible in Kerry or Kilkenny if the incumbent manager's record was of a similar nature - no AI appearance, no MF honours - no silverware at all... ... I'm not saying that Gerard McCarthy should not have been selected but best practice (and common sense) dicate that alternatives should have been considered.

But it is quite normal and commonplace for sitting managers to be returned unopposed for another term? And presumably any club in any county that wants to nominate a challenger for a management position is entitled to do so, even if an incumbent holds the position already? Even Kilkenny and Kerry have been known to retain managers in years when they won nothing.

One thing strikes me (no pun intended..) & consider this for a moment   - why does only one name go forward for consideration for Cork hurling manager?? It doesn't cross the collective consciousness that an alternative should at least be considered?

Would that be credible in Kerry or Kilkenny if the incumbent manager's record was of a similar nature - no AI appearance, no MF honours - no silverware at all... ... I'm not saying that Gerard McCarthy should not have been selected but best practice (and common sense) dicate that alternatives should have been considered.

But it is quite normal and commonplace for sitting managers to be returned unopposed for another term? And presumably any club in any county that wants to nominate a challenger for a management position is entitled to do so, even if an incumbent holds the position already? Even Kilkenny and Kerry have been known to retain managers in years when they won nothing.

Retaining a manager is one thing, the fact that the committee that is responsible for selecting the new manager doesn't consider any another candidate is quite another, especially when many people (justifiably IMO) believe that Frank M is orchestrating this to return to the pre 2002 status . I take the point that unsuccessful managers are often retained but surely some sort of progress should have been shown to justify an automatic selection.

I think it's fair to argue that Cork hurling has probably lost ground since John Allen's time - now that shouldn't all be laid at Gerald's door - players with perhaps too many miles on the clock, competing in 4 AI finals in a row etc. are all factors too - but the questions should be asked of Gerald's managerial skills versus what else might be on offer as part of any logical assessment of the current state of play. That didn't take place because in my view

This is round 3 between Frank & the players.  My initial gut reaction on hearing about this to think the players had lost the run of themselves. Gerald Mac is a decent skin in my view and doesn't deserved to used and abused in this way. However having considered it a little bit more, I'm back to supporting the players (and feeling a bit sorry for Gerald ) as it all boils down to one thing for me - The Cork players want to win games, my feeling is that Frank would prefer winning the argument over winning games.

I've heard it said around home on many an occasion that Frank's messing costs Cork a title a decade. Why else is one of our most talented native sons  - Justin McCarthy not even discussed as a possible manager?

And before anybody starts giving the clubs and democracy argument - talk to someone who knows a little about the Cork CB and it's full time secretary.