McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[realrebel]

no u might not be one of the players but u are stfrancis on the rebel gaa site
i was watching u here when u logged off here suddenly stfrancis appeared on rebel gaa
then stfrancis logged off and u can came on here
and u say u hate liars u are one

[Reillers]

no u might not be one of the players but u are stfrancis on the rebel gaa site
i was watching u here when u logged off here suddenly stfrancis appeared on rebel gaa
then stfrancis logged off and u can came on here
and u say u hate liars u are one

I'm not. Check if you like. I'm not him.

[Reillers]

It's typical though, ye ignore what I say and attack me, why don't you read it instead, maybe without the bias for a start.

I have great respect for Gerald, he's a legend of a player, he's good friends with dad. I don't really attack him, I've said nothing but the truth about him. It's the CB I attack, who I have no time for. They are the biggest disgrace to Cork GAA. They have them out on their feet and the only one with the balls to stand up to them are the senior players who are running out of energy to fight them.

But truthfully, if the players did what Gerald just did, ye'd be ripping shreads off them and ye know it. Ye just don't want to hear the truth at times.

[orangeman]

Ceasefire..If McCarthy keeps carrying on like this (and it's not the first time he's done it) then I don't know.

The players hate talking to the media, and their intentions were that when they were it was only facts, only their side of the story, their story they'd tell. Nothing more nothing less, but McCarthy made it personal, ya he was hurt, but he was on the radio all the time looking for sympathy votes by, at times, blatantly lying to make the players look bad and get himself points, and now he's at it again with the McGurn thing, but the players have tried to keep the pretty much out of the media, like even now we haven't heard anything from them in a long time, but McCarthy made it personal, the players didn't want to engage in a bitching session with McCarthy in the papers, and they didn't really which I think lost them the PR battle in a sense, McCarthy, I've great respect for him as a player, I do, but he made it personal and everytime there was a chance of a light at the end of the tunell he turned it into an oncomming train. He's not helping matters at all.

I wouldn't expect anything more from the players till after Christmas.
There will be movement after Chistmas, or so I'm told, can't really say more then that at the minute but there's supposed to be movement after Christmas if nothings solved. What kind of movement is open to your interpretation.

Reillers, much as I admire your passion and your fierce criticism of everything and everybody apart from the players, I believe that you are not able to see the wood from the trees.


I've concluded that you're simply far too close to the situation here, in order to give any degree of balance to the debate - essenitially your message is this :    everybody in Cork apart from the players want to destroy Cork hurling just because they want to get one over on the players - they want to see Cork beat into the ground everytime they go out and the current manager is nothing but a liar ( who is a masterclass in managing the media but not the team ), being packed up by the devil himself, Frank Murphy - and worse than all of this, every club in Cork have been bought by Frank who sometimes hypnotises them into voting his way.


Take a read at this and it mightn't be far off the mark. Maybe then you'll realise that although the players DO have legitimate concerns, getting them across to the general public has been their downfall.

[Reillers]

Ceasefire..If McCarthy keeps carrying on like this (and it's not the first time he's done it) then I don't know.

The players hate talking to the media, and their intentions were that when they were it was only facts, only their side of the story, their story they'd tell. Nothing more nothing less, but McCarthy made it personal, ya he was hurt, but he was on the radio all the time looking for sympathy votes by, at times, blatantly lying to make the players look bad and get himself points, and now he's at it again with the McGurn thing, but the players have tried to keep the pretty much out of the media, like even now we haven't heard anything from them in a long time, but McCarthy made it personal, the players didn't want to engage in a bitching session with McCarthy in the papers, and they didn't really which I think lost them the PR battle in a sense, McCarthy, I've great respect for him as a player, I do, but he made it personal and everytime there was a chance of a light at the end of the tunell he turned it into an oncomming train. He's not helping matters at all.

I wouldn't expect anything more from the players till after Christmas.
There will be movement after Chistmas, or so I'm told, can't really say more then that at the minute but there's supposed to be movement after Christmas if nothings solved. What kind of movement is open to your interpretation.

Reillers, much as I admire your passion and your fierce criticism of everything and everybody apart from the players, I believe that you are not able to see the wood from the trees.


I've concluded that you're simply far too close to the situation here, in order to give any degree of balance to the debate - essenitially your message is this :    everybody in Cork apart from the players want to destroy Cork hurling just because they want to get one over on the players - they want to see Cork beat into the ground everytime they go out and the current manager is nothing but a liar ( who is a masterclass in managing the media but not the team ), being packed up by the devil himself, Frank Murphy - and worse than all of this, every club in Cork have been bought by Frank who sometimes hypnotises them into voting his way.


Take a read at this and it mightn't be far off the mark. Maybe then you'll realise that although the players DO have legitimate concerns, getting them across to the general public has been their downfall.

You know maybe I get too into it. But it's not about getting one over on the players, even if this wasn't happening, and to be honest this is taking away from the real issues in Cork GAA, they still seem out to destroy it, what they're doing the youth "set up," the issues with the clubs and such, there are a lot of problems. You know sometimes you need to accept things. This has been the way for so long in Cork GAA, this set up, but I can't accept it.
The CB would rather have control over glory,

"Pause for breath. What was going through the minds of a few county board men as they saw the spikiest team in Cork's turbulent history being ribboned and shredded and their totem, their leader, taking the long walk. A championship defeat, yes, but control, complete control of the hurlers back with the blazers?"-Humphries words, not mine.

Gerald lied here in this point, which makes him a liar in this case, but he's one of the greatest players that have ever worn a Cork jesery. He's a legend, there were very little people on the pitch who would give more then he did. And what's happening here doesn't change that. Nothing ever will.

The clubs in Cork GAA, he's friends in many of those clubs, some don't and some wont go against them, and others. I don't know what he does to get them to vote the way he wants, like there are some very good honest men in the board, but a lot are fossils. It just seems like to much of a coincidence that whatever way Frank wants the vote to go, they vote, usually in a massive majority in the same way, the most obvious being in the strike last year when they all went one way and like sheep went the other way.

Maybe I am too close to this, but maybe ye are too far away from it, maybe I'm not the only bias one here, because if yere honest with yereselves a lot ye don't give the players the time of day, like here, 3 of ye have completley ignored what McCarthy's done and attacked me, when ye know that if it was the players who had done something like this ye'd be all over it ripping into them and ye know it.

And I know the players have lost the Pr battle. A long time ago and outstandly lost it. They made a hash of it.

[orangeman]

I might be detached from it but surely that should give me a real advantage - I CAN see what's going on.


If the players have lost the media battle which everyone concedes that they have, surely this says a lot about how intelligent a man Gerald Mc Carthy is ? Surely it tells you that he is a very astute man, a man whose abilities shouldn't be taken lightly ? I tihnk the players have realised this in the interim but have dug themselves a hole that they cannot get out of.


And such is the great character of Mc Carthy, he could have taken countless opportunities to kick them when they were down. But no - he's too much of a gentleman to do this - he's too much of a GAA man to do this - he didn't do it when he was playing and he certainly wasn't going to di it now.

What did he do instead He offered and has been offering an olive branch to the players so that he could help them out of the hole that they're inand get them back onto the field of play again.



But the players have developed a deep sense of paranoia and now cannot even recognise how great the man is.

He stood by Sully when every other manager in Ireland might have jettisoned him. Sully went out against KK and was one of the few to come out on top.

Where is the gratitude and the appreciation for this ?.


Throw down a gauntlet to Mc Carthy at your peril. He was always well prepared for battle when he was playing and it looks like he's ready again -

Personally I'd rather have Mc Carthy on my side going into a row. It's a pity the players weren't smart enough to recognise this.


So come on Reillers, the players need to make a move - no more smokescreens about the youth set up, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, structures in Cork, player welfare, player development etc etc - these aren't problems created by Mc Carthy. Similar problems exist in every county.

Be grateful that you were born into such a great county - a proud county with such a glorious past and undoubtedly a future that will bring many more titles.

However the players need to get back playing.


The footballers were smart enough to realise and appreciate their lot - The hurlers should do likewise - if they don't, they'll get left behind and history is never kind to quitters.

[cicfada]

again I ask, what are the players willing to compromise on?

[orangeman]

again I ask, what are the players willing to compromise on?

The players have said they'll NEVER play under Mc Carthy - they should step back from that statement.

[Reillers]

OM.
It's clear and you can deny it all you want, that you don't like the Cork team. Not many do.

Look they lost the PR battle because of 3 things.

1.The public, even some of the Cork public are sick to death of it.
2. They were a bit naive in their approach to the media, and they came across the bad guys in this because they did nothing for weeks while McCarthy was on the radio and in the papers pleading his case, getting the sympathy votes. His word was taken at face value and the players were questioned and doubted.
3. He'd the CB Pr campaign on his side. What they want they usually get.

McCarthy was sneaky and covered the truth at times. He says that they got on fine, when reality is they didn't, they needed a mediator to get them through the season. He's been sneaky as hell, he leadked, which I think was the lowest of the low moments in this, the confidential document, just to make the players look two faced.
Like your on about the great character of McCarthy, who has done a lot of this through hurt ego and pride. He told the players that he'd be leaving. But he didn't.

The players have been degraded and criticised and been tore apart by the media, they haven't given in, that tells you about their great character does it not??
That's where your bias comes in, you think oh good on Gerald for not giving in but screw the players for not giving in after they've gotten a hell lot more criticism.

A good manager knows when he's in over his head, he knows when he's beaten, and this has nothing to do with the stance now, I'm talking about on the field and in the dressing room. Roy Keane knew, and he walked away and look at Sunderland now. They're flying. A thing that makes some a good manager is to know when you're beaten. Gerald hasn't see this or else is too stuborn to walk away.

He said the players were welcome to come back..but to what, the same thing they left..what's the point.

Agreed they are as paranoid as they've ever been and that's down to years of fighting the CB. He might be a good man, but he's an awful manager, and that's the problem. You could be the nicest person in the world but a shocking manager.

Sorry now but he dropped Sully for two games, which was the right to do. What he did was purely managerial and he'd no other option, he was going to do the exact same thing in the KK match if it went pear shapped. He wasn't prepared to make the call of not starting Sully.

Gratitude..for what..doing his job?? Come on. That's grabbing at nothing now.

McCarthy is being used as a pawn by the CB, and the players to an extent. He represents the CB to both sides. It's not fair on him, but McCarthy is really after turning into a CB man, more then I thought he ever would.

The hurlers only want the best of the best and nothing else, maybe they shouldn't, maybe because they've had the impecable Donal O Grady who set unreachable standards. And KK then with Cody. Cork are great and expect the set up to be great..and that's where they have fallen down apparently. Apprently they are not allowed to want the best.

Either way Cork needs to move on, I just wish we knew which way.

The best thing for Cork hurling isn't in the long run for the players to give in and Gerald to keep on managing the team, but in the short term it is. Which would you take.

[Reillers]

again I ask, what are the players willing to compromise on?

The players have said they'll NEVER play under Mc Carthy - they should step back from that statement.

Why should they?? Because it causes troubble.
Does it matter that he was reappointed in the wrong way,
Does it matter that he's a bad manager??

It's put up or shut up isn't it. Times have changed but that attitude in the GAA hasn't.

Like ye tell me, are they wrong for wanting the very best?? Is it because O Grady standards spoilt us, and we shouldn't be expecting the best.

[orangeman]

OM.
It's clear and you can deny it all you want, that you don't like the Cork team. Not many do.
Look they lost the PR battle because of 3 things.

1.The public, even some of the Cork public are sick to death of it.
2. They were a bit naive in their approach to the media, and they came across the bad guys in this because they did nothing for weeks while McCarthy was on the radio and in the papers pleading his case, getting the sympathy votes. His word was taken at face value and the players were questioned and doubted.
3. He'd the CB Pr campaign on his side. What they want they usually get.
McCarthy was sneaky and covered the truth at times. He says that they got on fine, when reality is they didn't, they needed a mediator to get them through the season. He's been sneaky as hell, he leadked, which I think was the lowest of the low moments in this, the confidential document, just to make the players look two faced.
Like your on about the great character of McCarthy, who has done a lot of this through hurt ego and pride. He told the players that he'd be leaving. But he didn't.

The players have been degraded and criticised and been tore apart by the media, they haven't given in, that tells you about their great character does it not??
That's where your bias comes in, you think oh good on Gerald for not giving in but screw the players for not giving in after they've gotten a hell lot more criticism.

A good manager knows when he's in over his head, he knows when he's beaten, and this has nothing to do with the stance now, I'm talking about on the field and in the dressing room. Roy Keane knew, and he walked away and look at Sunderland now. They're flying. A thing that makes some a good manager is to know when you're beaten. Gerald hasn't see this or else is too stuborn to walk away.

He said the players were welcome to come back..but to what, the same thing they left..what's the point.

Agreed they are as paranoid as they've ever been and that's down to years of fighting the CB. He might be a good man, but he's an awful manager, and that's the problem. You could be the nicest person in the world but a shocking manager.

Sorry now but he dropped Sully for two games, which was the right to do. What he did was purely managerial and he'd no other option, he was going to do the exact same thing in the KK match if it went pear shapped. He wasn't prepared to make the call of not starting Sully.

Gratitude..for what..doing his job?? Come on. That's grabbing at nothing now.

McCarthy is being used as a pawn by the CB, and the players to an extent. He represents the CB to both sides. It's not fair on him, but McCarthy is really after turning into a CB man, more then I thought he ever would.

The hurlers only want the best of the best and nothing else, maybe they shouldn't, maybe because they've had the impecable Donal O Grady who set unreachable standards. And KK then with Cody. Cork are great and expect the set up to be great..and that's where they have fallen down apparently. Apprently they are not allowed to want the best.

Either way Cork needs to move on, I just wish we knew which way.

The best thing for Cork hurling isn't in the long run for the players to give in and Gerald to keep on managing the team, but in the short term it is. Which would you take.

That's an awful start to your answer - how you can say that is quite unbelievable - well, maybe not in your eyes - but you just can't make such a sweeping statment as Not many people like the Cork hurling team - pure paranoia -

The CB were careful to say nothig if anything during this process but yet you can say that Mc Carthy had the CB PR achine on his side No chance.

You can say that Mc Carthy is bad manager all you like but I suppose he didn't dig Cork out of the holes they were in against Galway and Clare.

I was at the Clare match, sitting in the Old stand and I personally saw the players coming over and hugging Mc Carthy in the aftermath of their win. There wasn't much wrong with Mc Carthy as manager that day. And there was no mention of a mediator that day either.

[Reillers]

Every comment you make pretty much has a dig at the players. MAybe I'm paranoid, maybe it's a Cork thing.

Maybe I'm too close, but you are so far away from this that you can't see the truth and if you don't think that the CB PR machine hasn't been behind this then you are too far away, further then I thought.

McCarthy, and I don't blame a manager a lot for losses because he's not the one on the pitch, but HE lost us the Tipp match that we should have walked away with.
This Cork team, they won the Galway match for Donal Og, they've all said it. They won it for themselves. The Clare match was the same, Fraggy Murphy was eventually used by Gerald and rescued the match. He did a good job in moving the players around but if you credit him for the wins, then you most credit him for the losses, which is 5 in 2 seasons. Which in Cork standards is extremley poor.

There was always a problem with Gerald from the start, but the players gave him the 2 seasons. When the last strike happened it was discussed what or if they'd do anything about Gerald, but they thought he'd be gone next season so they'd give him a chance. THEY, the players, had to bring in a mediator because things just weren't working, they weren't getting on.

They put their feelings aside to do the best they could in the jersey in the season, they were hardly going to walk away in the middle of the season.

[orangeman]

Yes I am far away from it but as I say you're probably too close -

If you represent a players' point of view which I'd say you do, there are problems - but Mc Carthy shouldn't be blamed for the wrongs of the CB or the structure in Cork.

From what he says, he recognises, like you and like the players, that there are shortcomings that need to be addressed and just because the players think that he is on the side of the CB, he shouldn't be blamed for the sins of the board.

I didn't say that he was responsible solely for the win against Galway or Clare - what I WAS trying to say that I witnessed the playes coming over to Mc Carthy and embracing him and "sharing" the moment. So I'm trying to bury this myth that the manager and the players NEVER got on - of course they got on and got on very well.


It was only when they were beat that the players decided as usually happens with most teams, that it was the managers fault that they lost and not their own.

[Reillers]

Yes I am far away from it but as I say you're probably too close -

If you represent a players' point of view which I'd say you do, there are problems - but Mc Carthy shouldn't be blamed for the wrongs of the CB or the structure in Cork.

From what he says, he recognises, like you and like the players, that there are shortcomings that need to be addressed and just because the players think that he is on the side of the CB, he shouldn't be blamed for the sins of the board.

I didn't say that he was responsible solely for the win against Galway or Clare - what I WAS trying to say that I witnessed the playes coming over to Mc Carthy and embracing him and "sharing" the moment. So I'm trying to bury this myth that the manager and the players NEVER got on - of course they got on and got on very well.


It was only when they were beat that the players decided as usually happens with most teams, that it was the managers fault that they lost and not their own.

They didn't want him to have the job from the start. They only really began to click in the Galway match, in his second season, which was near the end of his tenure, when he was going to be leaving. They never got on very well, McCarthy and the players would tell you the same thing.

[orangeman]

Yes I am far away from it but as I say you're probably too close -

If you represent a players' point of view which I'd say you do, there are problems - but Mc Carthy shouldn't be blamed for the wrongs of the CB or the structure in Cork.

From what he says, he recognises, like you and like the players, that there are shortcomings that need to be addressed and just because the players think that he is on the side of the CB, he shouldn't be blamed for the sins of the board.

I didn't say that he was responsible solely for the win against Galway or Clare - what I WAS trying to say that I witnessed the playes coming over to Mc Carthy and embracing him and "sharing" the moment. So I'm trying to bury this myth that the manager and the players NEVER got on - of course they got on and got on very well.


It was only when they were beat that the players decided as usually happens with most teams, that it was the managers fault that they lost and not their own.

They didn't want him to have the job from the start. They only really began to click in the Galway match, in his second season, which was near the end of his tenure, when he was going to be leaving. They never got on very well, McCarthy and the players would tell you the same thing.

So are you conceding then that all was well this summer and that the players did in fact swarm around Mc Carthy and celebrated their win together ?.