what would you do?

[The Iceman]

Mannix
I was speaking about the original case . your is very different when your aware of an ongoing situation not a gut reaction to something someone saw in the street possibly completely out of context.
this is a very serious issues not a stage for people to let off repressed anger . every step  in a situation like this must be careful and considered.
inappropiate  Cheap dig alert
A celtic shirt itself should arouse suspicion

That's bullshit ros, a child would be better in a foster home (if it came to that) than being beat up. It's up to the relevant authorities to investigate the issue.


Iceman, real men would say something to the father? Like what? What would you say to the father? Tell him he's a c**t and then what? how does that help the child?

I would ask him what he was playing at and persist until I was sure he got the message.
I would more than likely go to the police about it and tell the father as much.
Chances are though I wouldn't have thought so straight and just hit him instead - but then what?

I wasn't implying that if you hit first that you weren't a real man
I was implying that real men would do something - not walk away or ignore it.

[DrinkingHarp]

This act on the child proves anyone can have children but it takes someone special to be a Father or Mother. There are tests to get a drivers license but anyone can have a child , what they do afterwards is something all together different.

I would have pulled the man aside informed him the Gardai are going to be making a visit to his home and if I see him ever do this again he will wish the Gardai locked him up for life if I got ahold of him.

[pintsofguinness]

I was implying that real men would do something - not walk away or ignore it.

i.e. go and call the relevant authorities?

[DrinkingHarp]

This is a test to see if you are a man or not.

I have been talking about this kind of thing for a few weeks now with a few friends.  Been reading around the subject too and it would seem that men and women aren't like they used to be.....

You often hear women complaining that "there are no real men left anymore"
We complain regularly that all girls are  "ball breakers" and constantly on to us to do better or bitchin to us all the time.

As time has passed and women pursued equality the boundaries between masculine and feminine become blurred.  
Men are eternal boys still chasing the same things they did when they were 16, still going out drinking with the boys, still playing Playstation into their 30's and beyond.  
They are much more sensitive and emotional and a lot more in touch with their feminine essence.  They are passive in relationships.  Not very decisive.  They have given up on pursuing anything major in life and content to drift by.

Women have assumed more masculine roles in society and thus taken away from men their very being.  Women now rule the household, make the decisions, manipulate their men, bring in the bigger paychecks, are involved in sports more.  In some houses the women are the men and the women.

Where have all the men gone?  They are in the bedroom playing PS2 or down the pub watching the football with their mates from primary school.

How many still hold open a door for a woman?
How many would give their seat up on a bus or train for a woman of any age or a pensioner?
How many would speak up when a child gets beaten or a woman?
How many would intervene when they seen another man getting beaten up by two?

I would have intervened and at the very least said something to the father.  Well done Mannix for being one of the few real men still about

Iceman, Primetime ran this series awhile back which touches on subjects you talked about. There are over 30 different scenarios asking what would you do? A real character check exercise.

www.abcnews.go.com/Primetime/WhatWouldYouDo

[Puckoon]

The police officer wasnt long in showing his true colours in that scenario.

[mannix]

Thanks for the feedback, this has been a good pointer for us all, if you ever see a weaker being, be it a dog,child or homeless drunk getting the tough end of the deal its best that you step in and say something, be prepared though, not all bullies shrink away when confronted
turning the other way lets them know you are afraid or simply don't care.

[leenie]

i think its a tricky situation these days............

a while back me and friends were walking home from a night out and there was a fella tackling on a girl which seem to be his girlfriend and 2 of my buddies went over to them and the girl who had just been slapped turn on them and then the fella punch one of them!!!  luckily enough the guards came....you never can tell..... and sometimes it's not appreciated

i would be to scared to intervene but i'm a girl... but even for fella's i think it could be dangerous..... you don't know who you're dealing with, and what if they had a knife or something...

i'd say the best bet is to ring the police and wait as a witness

[rosnarun]

This is a hugely complex situation which would be made way worse by a complete stranger barging in to it.could be the man beat the child daily and was already under investigation  or he was just having the worst day of his life.
once social services are involved the child in on their radar for life. i would need to be very convinced by what i saw to make that decision for another family.
Fostering in theory sounds great but it is a shit way to grow up. how many people here would be willing and able to foster? and with the exception of baby adoptions it is an extremely hard to find any one willing to do it . While every one agrees it is a great thing to do
So where does thast leave that child you have intervened on behalf of?
pintsofguinness say it was than the up to the authorities and LAR say ''would be no further concern of mine''. as though that was some kind of end to the situation
Lifes not like that as i said before ' it may sooth your conscience but whaqt ever happens to the child after that you now share a responsility.
either of you want a foster child?

[pintsofguinness]

ros you're not making sense, are you on the wind up?
Are you seriously suggesting that it's better for the child to grow up in a house where he'll be beat up if his father has a bad day than in foster care?  If you report something like that it doesnt mean it will lead to the child growing up in foster care, I'd rather let the professionals investigate and decide if the child is at risk and better off in care.

[Hank Everlast]

Ros, you cant be serious, that sort of attitude is the reason scum bags like the childs father thinks that they can get away with unacceptable behaviour like that... Obviously foster care isnt ideal but it wud be a damn sight better...

[rosnarun]

If you know for definite that there is a situation of continous abuse the of course action should be taken. but to figure that out take more than a snap shot image than a child crying in the street.
I was taken aback at the violent urges in many of the original replies, Macho Bravado I know but isnt that the problem were discussing?

[full back]

but to figure that out take more than a snap shot image than a child crying in the street.

From the information given, I think it was a lot more than a 'snap shot' of a child crying in the street

[The GAA]

A man knocking his 3 year old boy to the ground from his bicycle with a punch in the back, and the dragging him up by the hair and doing the same again.
Boy was crying and cut on side of face from stones and sand on the road.

I'd have announced my disgust and waded in flakin, either handing out or taking a beating. to not intervene is to do nothing of consequence in this situation and i couldn't live with myself for that.

[Lar Naparka]

This is a hugely complex situation which would be made way worse by a complete stranger barging in to it.could be the man beat the child daily and was already under investigation  or he was just having the worst day of his life.
once social services are involved the child in on their radar for life. i would need to be very convinced by what i saw to make that decision for another family.
Fostering in theory sounds great but it is a shit way to grow up. how many people here would be willing and able to foster? and with the exception of baby adoptions it is an extremely hard to find any one willing to do it . While every one agrees it is a great thing to do
So where does thast leave that child you have intervened on behalf of?
pintsofguinness say it was than the up to the authorities and LAR say ''would be no further concern of mine''. as though that was some kind of end to the situation
Lifes not like that as i said before ' it may sooth your conscience but whaqt ever happens to the child after that you now share a responsility.
either of you want a foster child?

Ros, you are losing me there!
When I say ''would be no further concern of mine'' I am referring to the fact that I would not seek to interfere or take on the job of sorting out the father. I certainly don't mean I'd put the entire episode out of my mind but I am not qualified to pass judgement on anybody in a case like this.
I think that is a job for experts; at least they should be experts and have far more resources to deal with such happenings than I could ever hope to have.
I certainly never implied that I would be willing to take the responsibility of bring up the poor kid because I witnessed one incident that worried me!
I can reel off at least six cases where people decided to turn a blind eye to what they knew was wrong and it lead to serious consequences.
Maybe the father is in need of help himself. Maybe also, there is a domestic situation involved where wives/ partners and other family members are being beaten up.
I've said I'd be prepared to stand over what I'd report and give whatever evidence I was asked to provide – to the proper authorities.
But I'd never set myself up as sole judge, jury and executioner either!
Look; I taught for many years at a school in Finglas. In that time I came across many cases of domestic violence that caused concern and where turning a blind eye was not an option. I have seen cases where kids and often mothers were removed from the household for the short term. I can't recall any action by either me or any of my colleagues ever resulting in kids being taken permanently into foster care.
That sort of thing would only be done as a last resort.
That's not to say I've never come across cases where children were taken into care; I don't think it happens unless there is a risk of serious injury or even death occurring. I can think of cases where I'd say it was the only realistic option. Drugs misuse more often than not would play a part in the situation arising and in many cases I'd say the father or sometimes the mother was totally incapable of ever returning to normality without outside help.
I think most teachers in any part of the country would agree with me on this. It's kind of accepted procedures to report cases and not seek to actively interfere after that. God knows our social services can be inadequate at times but they do try to act in the best interests of the innocent parties involved and long term fostering does not figure first and foremost on the agenda.

[mannix]

lar na parka,
i have faith in your view. The question is this, on seeing a man abusing a small child what do you do?
Hitting the father is hardly the answer but its an option if he hits the child after you give him a verbal warning.  I am not aggressive by nature but hate to see any sort of abuse to an innocent victim.
The question still stands very tall,
Would you say or do something or is it best not to get involved?
For the record, police were not an option for me,no mobile phone.