The Heineken Cup Thread

[GalwayBayBoy]

Connacht have nine former Leinster Senior or Leinster U20s in their senior squad: Matt Healy, Kyle Tonetti, Dave McSharry, Paul O'Donohoe, Davey Moore, Mick Kearney, Dave Gannon, Jason Harris-Wright and Nathan White.

Lot of them were surplus to requirements though at Leinster. A few of them actually came to Connacht from clubs in England. At least one came from the AIL. McSharry I believe wasn't even offered a Leinster academy contract so Connacht offered him one.

[Main Street]

The way Dinny put it, you'd think Leinster were doing Connacht a favour by throwing a few crumbs their way, from their rich IRFU subsided squad 

[AZOffaly]

So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?

[Dinny Breen]

So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?

That's it in a nutshell.

Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.

[trileacman]

So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?

That's it in a nutshell.

Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.

There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?

[trileacman]

So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?

In fairness unless all money was collected centrally and dispersed equally like the GAA you will always have rich and poor clubs. The lack of centrally contracted players would just weaken Irish rugby when it was in a lull. Commercial brand's like Munster/ Leinster will always have financial pull over Connaught for the foreseeable future. I understand the treatment of Connaught as a feeder club weakens it's commercial appeal to the public though. What's the point in development if you aren't allowed to get anywhere?

[AZOffaly]

1 - It's Connacht

2 - I agree, I was just wondering how it was set up.

[Dinny Breen]

So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?

That's it in a nutshell.

Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.

There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?

More or less but Leinster wanted to sign Donnacha Ryan (your 3rd CC 2nd row) and it wasn't sanctioned a couple of season ago.

Leinster wanted to resign Nathan White but it wasn't sanctioned and the PAG moved him to Connacht instead. They were also only allowed offer Nathan Hines a 1 one year extension, needless to say he fecked off to France.

Gilroy isn't CC'd but Bowe and Trimble are.

[Crete Boom]

Connacht have nine former Leinster Senior or Leinster U20s in their senior squad: Matt Healy, Kyle Tonetti, Dave McSharry, Paul O'Donohoe, Davey Moore, Mick Kearney, Dave Gannon, Jason Harris-Wright and Nathan White.

  Kyle Tonetti was signed from Sale where had played since been let go by Leinster the previous season. Dave McSharry wasn't deemed good enough for a development contract with Leinster so Connacht picked him up when he impressed for St Mary's in the AIL. Paul O' Donohoe and Dave Moore were both released or about to be released by Leinster and this due to lack of game time was the reason the joined Connacht. Mick Kearney didn't have his short academy contract renewed so subsequently joined Connacht which was a surprise given Leinster short comings at second row both senior and at underage level. Dave Gannon wasn't even given a development contract at Leinster after captaining the Ireland U21's to a world cup final and told to play AIL but instead opted to play for Connacht instead before going on to be the first non New Zealand(or imported Islander) born player to play in a NPC final and is now in his second stint with Connacht.
    Jason Harris-Wright was seen as a token sop to the peasants in the west over the way Leinster took advantage of Connacht being restricted to offerring one year contracts only to players when they signed Croinin. Nathan White is termed a project player (i.e. will qualify to play for Ireland under the 3 year residency rule ala C.J Stander , Richard Strauss etc...) and when Leinster signed Hagan at the same time as Croinin the IRFU restricted them from resigning White as they already had established players in Mike Ross and Hagan with young players like Jack McGrath, Jack O' Connell and Tagh Furlong to be developed.So they felt ,rightly so ,that a move to Connacht or Munster would be of greater benefit to White and the younger props so he signed for Connacht.
    They point I am getting at is a lot of Leinster fans( on other forums) are a bit pissed off at the Connacht boys moaning about McCarthy's move and use the" sure they have loads of Leinster players anyway" stick to beat us with when in reality Leinster wanted none of these players with the exception of White when Connacht signed them and it was Connacht who developed their potential (or will develop) when Leinster, Munster or Ulster invariably come calling at a later stage. Also for us Connacht fans the real reason these players move is because they have to if they want a central contract from the IRFU (and regular international rugby) and all the big three provinces do is take advantage of this political discrimination. Mike McCarthy's only choice would be to take the view Gavin Duffy and Johhny O' Connor did as Connacht men and move to England or France rather than playing for a rival province but while they would gain more Irish caps than when playing for Connacht they would still be on the outside compared to playing for the big three and have to play much more games which would inevitably shorten your career!It was a catch 22 for Macca and I think he made the right choice for himself and Ireland so good luck to him with Leinster as long as he plays crap against Connacht next year .

[ormond lad]

How does that work Dinny? I know some of the contracts at least are 'central' contracts, but how are they actually structured? Are you contracted to the IRFU who decide where you play, or is your contract to Leinster, Munster or whoever?

If the contracts are with the individual provinces, is there a limit on who can move where, or is it simple marked demand? i.e. if Leinster can afford to pay X euro for Craig Gilroy for example, are they free to make an approach to him?

IRFU centrally contracts around 22 players. They are the top players like Donnacha Ryan, Paul o Connell, Brian O Driscoll, Sexton, Bowe,
Each province then contracts the rest of their squad.
IRFU can influence players where they play. Players can be tempted to move province by being offered central contracts
Leinster are free to approach Gilroy if they wanted to but the IRFU have to approve all transfers so the move would be rejected

[ormond lad]

So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?

That's it in a nutshell.

Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.

There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?

More or less but Leinster wanted to sign Donnacha Ryan (your 3rd CC 2nd row) and it wasn't sanctioned a couple of season ago.

Leinster wanted to resign Nathan White but it wasn't sanctioned and the PAG moved him to Connacht instead. They were also only allowed offer Nathan Hines a 1 one year extension, needless to say he fecked off to France.

Gilroy isn't CC'd but Bowe and Trimble are.

Leinster did want to sign Donnacha Ryan and Donnacha seriously was looking at moving to dublin but eventually he decided to stay and fight it out in munster for a first team place. Leinster never got to stage of PAG sanctioning a move for Don Ryan

[Dinny Breen]

The reason why I listed those players is that it highlights how well Connacht have done out of the Leinster Academy with none of the expense of developing young talent. Connacht have developed as a team thanks to these players, you could argue that the Leinster Academy is an important cog in the Connacht system as their own academy, giving a player game time is only part of the development, skills and game understanding are developed at a very much younger age.

Some Leinster fans would annoy with the 'Man United' like syndrome of entitlement but the an béal bocht that comes from Connacht fans is equally annoying.

Anyhow Connacht are progressing and they should progress further under a new coach (have been at seminars with Elwood and to be honest he's not the greatest technical coach) and hopefully the Irish Rugby Tzar will give them more structure and a more equal footing.

[Dinny Breen]

So in effect, Dinny, is it true to say that the more established internationals you have, the more you are likely to be able to offer big money deals to 'free agents'? And if you have a big commercial 'brand' like Leinster and Munster, you're more likely again to have the ammo to do so?

That's it in a nutshell.

Connacht have a role to play in Irish Rugby and in fairness to them they are evolving on and off the pitch, whether they ever hit the heights of Munster/Leinster I don't know but from next season they'll be better served as the Professional game in Ireland will soon be run by a professional body and not the Blazers and their political agendas.

There'll be downsides to that too. Interested by your words on the PAG, can they only advise where players can go (i.e Bowe) and dictate what foreign players can sign? Any examples of foreign moves they have prevented? Who are the two Ulster PAG wingers and 3 current 2nd row's? Trimble, Gilroy - POC, DOC, Cullen?

More or less but Leinster wanted to sign Donnacha Ryan (your 3rd CC 2nd row) and it wasn't sanctioned a couple of season ago.

Leinster wanted to resign Nathan White but it wasn't sanctioned and the PAG moved him to Connacht instead. They were also only allowed offer Nathan Hines a 1 one year extension, needless to say he fecked off to France.

Gilroy isn't CC'd but Bowe and Trimble are.

Leinster did want to sign Donnacha Ryan and Donnacha seriously was looking at moving to dublin but eventually he decided to stay and fight it out in munster for a first team place. Leinster never got to stage of PAG sanctioning a move for Don Ryan

Ah interesting so it was the player and not the PAG.

What's a Nenagh Ormond head doing on a GAA Board? Unless! is that you Donnacha? 

[trileacman]

1 - It's Connacht

2 - I agree, I was just wondering how it was set up.

1- I know but it pisses Mayo@gmail off so I like spelling it that way. 

[AZOffaly]

I see Connacht having a bit of a dig at Leinster in the papers today for 'persistantly' targetting their best players.