The Heineken Cup Thread

[Denn Forever]

Have to beat Edinburgh first.

[theticklemister]

 

It would be f**king hilarious if they won it.

Absolute clowns in charge, inferiority complex as big as a house, getting rid of a man who's doing a great job.

There was a shot of them together talking during yesterdays game when at that stage the Ulster team were hammering Munster and you were all ' Humpreys what the feck are you at!' I think he might of been saying the same also. I had a lot of respect for Humphreys during his playing days and believed that he should have had a lot more game time ahead of Elwood and O'Gara but in recent months it has gone down the pan. The best thing now is for the coach to embarass Humphreys and the Ulster directorship by winning the Heinekin Cup!

[Hoof Hearted]

Sat 28th April - Ulster v Edinburgh @ The Aviva 5.45PM
Sun 29th April - Clermont Auvergne @ Borduaux 3.00PM

[whiskeysteve]

That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty

just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully

Not for Derry

you wold never know 

sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)

I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!

Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?

Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.

Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.

Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."

Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.

I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.

Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.

What do you mean his faith doesnt fit in with playing for Coleraine, bit of a narrow minded jibe there. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the club and shows your own insecurities. 

[Gold]

It would be f**king hilarious if they won it.

Absolute clowns in charge, inferiority complex as big as a house, getting rid of a man who's doing a great job.

There was a shot of them together talking during yesterdays game when at that stage the Ulster team were hammering Munster and you were all ' Humpreys what the feck are you at!' I think he might of been saying the same also. I had a lot of respect for Humphreys during his playing days and believed that he should have had a lot more game time ahead of Elwood and O'Gara but in recent months it has gone down the pan. The best thing now is for the coach to embarass Humphreys and the Ulster directorship by winning the Heinekin Cup!

McLaughlin seems like a decent guy, mad about the sport and his team. I hope for his sake they go on and win it to sicken that fool humphreys. The team is playing great under him--why change? A new coach will bring new ideas and gameplan and will want time to implement his system--this will only serve to put Ulster backwards, not forwards.

I'd reverse the decision and let McLaughlin continue on.

What a win though--away to Munster. Some size in that Ulster team

[Thefisherking]

That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty

just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully

Not for Derry

you wold never know 

sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)

I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!

Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?

Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.

Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.

Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."

Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.

I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.

Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.

What do you mean his faith doesnt fit in with playing for Coleraine, bit of a narrow minded jibe there. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the club and shows your own insecurities. 

Read my post first before replying, think you've misunderstood me. I am quite familiar with Coleraine and have few insecurities in that regard.

[Newbridge Exile]

That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty

just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully

Not for Derry

you wold never know 

sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)

I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!

Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?

Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.

Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.

Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."

Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.

I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.

Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.

As the boys down our way would say "Ye've little to bother you."

Would agree 100%, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill

[muppet]

Leinster highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j4h_SCK-gQ

Ulster/Munster highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SvOMj9XESI

Edinburgh highlight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69niQTdcypg&feature=relmfu

[whiskeysteve]

That O'Driscoll try was a thing of beauty

just finished watching after recording it - what a try !! Great team. dont rule them out,away in the semi, which will be tough, but is an All Irelnd Final on the cards ? Hopefully

Not for Derry

you wold never know 

sure if Ulster win the H Cup, and a 26 county team win the All Ireland, then we will all be happy (wont we ?)

I heard trimble is gonna line out beside Barry McGoldrick this year in the middle of the field for Coleraine!!! But only Saturday matches not Sunday!!

Right lads will Ulster cover the 7 point spread?

Bit of a narrow minded jibe at Andrew Trimble there, if the shoe was on the other foot and someone made a remark like that about a 'Catholic' sportsman there would be howls of protest. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the man and shows your own insecurities.

Quote from the indo on 26/01/2012 "Unlike Scotland's Euan Murray, who caused quite a flutter with his decision not to play for his country on the Sabbath, Trimble opts not to express his committed Christianity in that way.

Although he devoutly believes that his faith is vastly more important to his rugby career -- he often recites Psalm 84 to himself to re-assert his devotion to his God -- the two never meet."

Jesus it was just a throw-away comment, cut him some slack.

I don't buy the phrase 'throw away' comment. In itself its a 'throw away phrase' to excuse small mindedness and bad manners. Better to say I was wrong and move on. What had been a decent thread on rugby was tainted by a stupid comment which drew attention to a man's religious faith and how it obviously doesn't fit with playing Gaelic football for Coleraine. When you make excuses for this you legitimise it. We once made a big deal about the GAA being an organisation for all, careless words like these hand ammunition to our detractors.

Sorry if I've struck a raw nerve here or if it seems I over reacted. I just saw it as a crappy thing to say about a professional sportsman who wears an Irish jersey with pride.

What do you mean his faith doesnt fit in with playing for Coleraine, bit of a narrow minded jibe there. Anyway it demonstrates how little you know about the club and shows your own insecurities. 

Read my post first before replying, think you've misunderstood me. I am quite familiar with Coleraine and have few insecurities in that regard.

Alright Victor Meldrew  , just using your own overblown language against you lad  Use of this face ( ) would be a hint for a post not to be taken seriously!

[AZOffaly]

Very well done to Ulster, and their fans were great too. Super result for them, and fully deserved. Munster started terribly, and then didn't have the creativity to break down Ulster when they were on top. Too many silly errors, and fantastic Ulster defense saw to that.

Back to the drawing board for Munster, but in truth they probably had a false sense of where they were because apart from Northampton away, they didn't really show great form in this competition, despite going 6 for 6 in the pool.

[trileacman]

Few lads getting carried away with McLaughlin here, Ulster owe alot of there success to buying good players from the ANZAC. Pienaar is simply sublime, the best 9 currently left in the competition and a huge factor in Ulsters good season without him they would not be near to playing at this level. Any Ulster match I have seen this season he is dragging the team with him, in a different stratosphere to those around him.

[screenexile]

There was a good piece in the Indo about the McLaughlin/Humphries situation. (There are a few good pieces once you stay away from the GAA stuff, there was an excellent one last week about Sean Foley and the Golf)

Sunday April 08 2012

David Humphreys' ambitious plan for Ulster faces its litmus test this afternoon, says Brendan Fanning

We don't have definitive statistics to confirm this, but virtually every time we walk through the gate from Onslow Parade, it's cold and wet and thoroughly miserable. Ravenhill makes the Sportsground feel like LA. It is rarely anything other than grey.

Naturally enough, this is the topic of conversation with a member of the Ulster staff as we wait for David Humphreys, a man who, over a lifetime of rugby, managed to eke every advantage out of those familiarly bleak conditions.

"Hopefully it will be a bit brighter in Limerick," says the lady in reception. "It's a long trek, isn't it?" she asks, suggesting it's unbroken ground for her. Oh, it's that all right. And are hopes high of the 6,000 Ulster folk singing all the way home? "Well, they have to believe that's it's doable, don't they?"

That's been the recurring theme this past week. Aside from the fitness of Stephen Ferris on the one side, and the clutch of returning Munster men on the other, it's been all about what's going on in Ulster heads, and if they have come far enough along the road to cope with Munster in Limerick on a Heineken Cup day.

The man who is driving them down that road is David Humphreys. When Ravenhill was heaving on those heady days in the 1998/'99 campaign, the outhalf was the go-to man. He directed the operation; Simon Mason applied the finishing touches. From the moment Humphreys announced himself on the senior team in 1992 as a skinny, 11-stone-something replacement -- coincidentally at an interpro in Thomond Park -- and dropped a goal to clinch the tie, he has been at the heart of the operation.

Twenty years on and not a whole lot heavier, not that much has changed. As a player, Humphreys was expected to do the spectacular. As rugby director, he has swapped boots for sandals and taken on the role of Moses.

We don't know what the biblical bloke was like in getting the lads out of Egypt, but if he had the ruthless streak of David George Humphreys then there can't have been much doubt that they would arrive. It's a question of when.

The Ballymena man had barely signed off after his 162 provincial caps when he was cornered for a newly-created role to deliver his people to the Promised Land. That was 2008. For the first year or so he ran around getting his hands dirty on all the different bits of machinery that made up the Ulster operation. For the last two years he has been steering things from further up the production line, and evidently in the right direction.

"We had all felt that Ulster was on a bit of a slide," he says of the scene when he got the job first. "So at that point you're standing looking at the situation and going, you know what, there's two options here: we let Munster and Leinster run away from us and make the gap so big it'll never be closed and we become almost a feeder province to them or some of the English and French clubs, or else we really have a crack at trying to reestablish Ulster as a competitive force in what at that time was the Magners League, and then also the Heineken Cup.

"I've been involved since Ulster schools at 17, so I had 20 years in this organisation and it's something I feel very passionate about, and something I have a huge amount of pride in. And I think it hurt all of us who had been involved over that period, and these were people who had been involved with Ulster during that period when nobody beat them. And out of the blue I was offered this opportunity to stay involved and try and maybe help turn things around."

Let's sum up where they are now then. Off the field, their crowds are up modestly on last season, and a sustained spike will be required to match the planning-approved development of Ravenhill, supported to the tune of €18.2m by the NI Executive, into an 18,000-capacity stadium by autumn 2014. Humphreys accepts that with their ambition to be bigger and better comes the risk that the place could have the feel of a Welsh new-build, where the loudest noise is the echo.

On the field, their results since winning the Magners League in 2006 have read: 5th, 9th, 8th, 8th, 3rd. Currently they are just outside the play-off zone, with a point separating them from the two teams in third and fourth. Last season they qualified for the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup for the first time since winning it in 1999. And two months ago they repeated the trick.

The squad has been transformed by the arrival of men hand-picked by Humphreys. His overseas signings have all worked out very well, notwithstanding Jared Payne rupturing his Achilles after only three games -- he will play next season when Humphreys expects him to do for Ulster what Isa Nacewa has done for Leinster. Indeed, the only one of his signings you'd say has stalled has been Mike McComish, who was returning north from Connacht having had a sojourn in England in between.

Clearly, Humphreys is very good at this. He puts a lot of time into identifying the right man, and then hops on a plane to meet him before taking it any further. This is not standard practice in rugby recruitment. It is the part of the job he says he enjoys most. It might not be because he is such a good people person -- and some in Ravenhill would say he has a bit of work to do on this front -- but because he has such a clear understanding of what is needed to move the group forward. And he is driven by an ambition that owes something to the last days of the Roman Empire, as was London Irish in the earliest days of professionalism.

"I look back on it very fondly, but also with a sense of frustration because for me that was what summed up Irish rugby back then," he says.

"When you look at that group of players and what some of them went on to achieve with different clubs, but also with London Irish and with Ireland, it was actually a very, very competitive team when you look at it now. But because we were Irish and we were playing in an English league, right at the start we didn't believe we were good enough. And that showed in the results."

So he wasn't going there again. That would mean taking tough decisions in Ulster. The first, which didn't attract that much media comment at the time, was ditching his old pal Jeremy Davidson from the forwards coaching job last year. That was followed two months ago by the sideways shift -- which generated a storm up north -- of Brian McLaughlin from the head coach role to the Academy.

"When Brian first came in three years ago he and I both saw a long-term future for him in Ulster rugby because of the experience he's gained," Humphreys says, by way of background.

"The difficulty obviously is that the timing of it is hard but in professional sport is there a good time to make decisions? We had to make it halfway through the year to give some of the coaches the opportunity to look elsewhere so there were a whole lot of factors in it, but yes we could have done it differently. And if we ever have to do it again we will do it differently. But, as I say, we feel it was made for the right reasons and it's a decision we're very comfortable with."

You shouldn't suspect for a moment that the last sentence in that paragraph was media-speak. Nor should you think that Humphreys did not consult the senior players before he went through with the move. To sum it up: McLaughlin had been hired as a member of staff rather than a contracted head coach, and both Humphreys and CEO Shane Logan maintain it was always the plan to move him to the Academy at some point. McLaughlin understandably had the hump that the move came when his stock had never been higher.

It is ironic that the controversy should have echoes of Warren Gatland's shock parting from Ireland in 2001. The Kiwi was moved on because it was thought, correctly, that he had served his purpose with that group.

The thought process, right or wrong, with McLaughlin is exactly the same. Humphreys remembers meeting Gatland not long after he took over the reins in Ravenhill.

"He said, 'you know what, there'll be a lot of ups and downs along the way but it will take you a long time to establish what you want. Don't get frustrated'. There were times where, like the start of the season when we lost four games on the bounce and you're thinking: 'Jeepers, how can 80 minutes on a Friday night be such a determining factor in your whole week in the mindset of everybody involved?'"

They got over that early-season slump to reach a point where, with their best team out, they can go toe to toe with anyone. Their problem is getting a bench to match the starting XV. And then a support cast for the bench.

If you are in any doubt about the role of the replacements, then go back to Leinster's last-quarter demolition of Munster last weekend. In the background, Ulster have plans to raise the playing numbers in the province from 27,000 at all levels to 40,000 to support their production line.

They won't get out of the starting blocks in that race without pushing on in Europe. The return of Tommy Bowe and Roger Wilson next season will add to that drive, but mostly they need to kick-start it with success in Limerick today. Defeat would mean that the three biggest games of their campaign: Leicester and Clermont away, and then Munster, had all gone south.

"It's not about persuading our team they can win, it's about preparing the team that they go out and play to the best of their ability," says Humphreys.

"We've been tested at different stages. You know we didn't win at Welford Road, we didn't win at Stade Michelin, so going to Thomond Park is the biggest test we're going to face this year. Since round six of the Heineken Cup we've been talking about it and preparing for it; yes, we've had games in between but we all know this is the one we've all been looking towards, the one that everyone involved in Ulster rugby, whether administrator, player, staff, supporter, this is the one we've been looking forward to."

It's hard to say what percentage of those defeats could be ascribed to not being certain of themselves beforehand, or at key moments in the contests. There is no room for that sort of ambivalence today.

As the lassie in Ravers said, they have to believe it's doable. Otherwise, they'll get well and truly done.

It would seem Humphreys agrees the thing was handled wrongly but ultimately the right decision was made. If you think Humphreys somehow feels he has egg on his face I would highly doubt it. A lot of that victory is down to his work as well and he seems to be a man constantly looking to improve which is what someone in his position should be doing!

[oisinog]

Few lads getting carried away with McLaughlin here, Ulster owe alot of there success to buying good players from the ANZAC. Pienaar is simply sublime, the best 9 currently left in the competition and a huge factor in Ulsters good season without him they would not be near to playing at this level. Any Ulster match I have seen this season he is dragging the team with him, in a different stratosphere to those around him.

The Irish Rugby board had a lot to do with getting Pienaar to Ulster. Not the managment at ravenhill.
The IRFU wanted to improve Ulster to help them perform in europe which is in the long run in Irelands best intrest

[Evil Genius]

Few lads getting carried away with McLaughlin here, Ulster owe alot of there success to buying good players from the ANZAC. Pienaar is simply sublime, the best 9 currently left in the competition and a huge factor in Ulsters good season without him they would not be near to playing at this level. Any Ulster match I have seen this season he is dragging the team with him, in a different stratosphere to those around him.

The Irish Rugby board had a lot to do with getting Pienaar to Ulster. Not the managment at ravenhill.

In the sense that they coughed up a large part of the money (from Ireland's International Match receipts), you are correct.

However, the following quotation from Fanning's article strongly suggests that so long as they keep within budget, plus the Irish-qualified quota etc, then authority to sign individual players is devolved to Provincial level:
"Clearly, Humphreys is very good at this. He puts a lot of time into identifying the right man, and then hops on a plane to meet him before taking it any further. This is not standard practice in rugby recruitment. It is the part of the job he says he enjoys most."

Of course, with all the plaudits and sympathy currently being expressed for McLaughlin etc, I am not surprised that DH is particularly concerned to puff up his own part in the current success.

But since he clearly has great authority within Ulster Rugby, and is pretty ambitious with it, I am sure that when it comes to new signings, his role is not just a technical one (i.e. negotiating contracts etc); rather he, not McLaughlin or even the IRFU, has the final say in exactly who comes into Ravenhill and who goes out.

And so far, at least, he looks to have been pretty successful (imo).

The IRFU wanted to improve Ulster to help them perform in europe which is in the long run in Irelands best intrest

The same applies to the other three Provinces (even if their ambitions for Connacht are rather more modest).

[Dinny Breen]