DUBLIN v TYRONE JANUARY 2009 CROKE PARK

[Gnevin]

If any Dublin supporrers want to whinge and cry about the match being  put on in Croke Park , then let them.


Why would any Tyrone supporter give a f*** about what any Dublin supporter thinks about the match being held in Croker as opposed to Parnell?

ALL Tyrone are delighted that it is in Croker because

a) it gives us a sense of occasion,
b) it gives some people something to look forward to after an xmas of doom and gloom on the jobs front in the north
c) it relives the Tyrone feeling that alot of people experienced in late September that was lost  in the latter months of 2008 due to the recession?


Who would begrudge us that?

No one , now give up a home game and everyone will be happy.

[Zulu]

nope because i'm sick of being used as a cash cow  by the association. thats the nuts and bolts of it. I couldn't care less what the rest of you think of it, the place will still be full regardless of me not being there. but it won't be my money they'll be getting. And thats good enough for me.

This is what I don't understand, you are being used as a cash cow you say, well you could also say the association is taking advantage of its biggest draw for a football match in Dublin. This game will be a celebration of the GAA, and Dublin GAA will benefit as much as anybody. I know your a hurling man Indiana, would you not agree that Dublin hurling has done well out GAA funding in recent years? Is it too much to ask that the Dublin football team move up the road a small bit to play a football match so that we can provide an occassion and generate more money so that other necessary initatives are suitable funded?

[Tankie]

Sorry Indiana but I just don't see where you're coming from, I mean I would define a home venue as one where you have more fans, a ground with which you're more familiar and where you don't have to travel too far to. Croke Park ticks all those boxes so you might say it is a neutral ground with most of the advantages of a home venue. I do agree that the GAA can be hypocritical and self serving when it comes to Dublin and I certainly agree that it should do a lot more to promote the National League but this is a game doubling up as a celebration of the GAA in its 125th year. Only Dublin will guarantee a sell out crowd which will provide a suitable occassion and welcome funds. I was at the last Dublin/Tyrone game under lights and i'm trying to get a crew to go to this one aswell, so it isn't only about Dublin or Tyrone fans but about the many GAA fans who can also get to a celebration of our organisation. I think that is worth 2 league points at least.

Ok since evryone else wants too deny the previous poll wher 33 - 12 the posters on this board said that they did noy nee Dublin. But in fairness to Zulu he is saying that the GAA does need Dublin

Regardless of that I have been out wit the lads from the club and from the two teams i'm involved in we have 29 saying that they are not going (others dont go anyway) so with that and my other 7 parnell pass lads we have a small boycott going. Maybe this will gather some pace before club submit their requests....

[Zulu]

Tankie anyone who says we don't need the Dubs is talking through their holes, one fifth of the country lives there for Christ sake so of course we do. But you, Indiana and your mates are making no sense to me by boycotting a great sporting occassion for, what exactly? Anything that benefits the GAA as a whole I'm in favour of and this game does exactly that, so I fail to see what ye Dubs have an issue with. I'd love to be able to stroll over to CP for an 83,000 sellout game against the AI champs and stroll home again, just enjoy the occassion lads!!

[Tankie]

Tankie anyone who says we don't need the Dubs is talking through their holes, one fifth of the country lives there for Christ sake so of course we do. But you, Indiana and your mates are making no sense to me by boycotting a great sporting occassion for, what exactly? Anything that benefits the GAA as a whole I'm in favour of and this game does exactly that, so I fail to see what ye Dubs have an issue with. I'd love to be able to stroll over to CP for an 83,000 sellout game against the AI champs and stroll home again, just enjoy the occassion lads!!

Well its clear you do not see why Dublin people want to boycott this game, read some of the previous posts and in particular Indianas who has spent alot of time discussing this issue.

this is no celebration other that the GAA milking its cash cow that it treats like shite for the rest of the year!

[Zulu]

Zulu you obviously never read my post. I was expecting the stream of vitriol, so I'm not going to respond to the indvidual insults But my reasons for not going are thus:

1- I enjoy the league games in Parnell. Its a welcome change from Croke Park . We've a good record there and its a cracking atmosphere there on a Sat night much better than Croke Park will be on the 31st.

2- If its a game celebrating the 125 th anniversary, it should be tyrone and kerry. We have no business being there after last year. We are not in the top 4 never mind the top 2.

3- Tired of being used as a cash cow for the Gaa. Its a such a hypocritical move from an organisation that never promoted the national league that it uses a one off game every 3 years to revive the 2nd most important inter county competition. They never promote it on any consistent basis except with these ridiculous one off events. We lose home advantage that everyone else gets, why?

4- The management are from my club, this is a 50/50 call. IF Dublin lose  which is quite likely then they are under immediate pressure. Vincents are universally loathed and detested throughout Dublin. There are a lot of people in Dublin waiting in the long grass on this one. A parnell park defeat wouldn't raise an eyebrow nationally and locally the level of discontent would be smaller. Dublin are in a rebuilding phase, they need this profile of  a game like a hole in the head. The DCB once again, instead of looking at the big picture just saw the euros.

I didn't sign a contract as a Gaa fan that I have to attend on the 31st. We all have our own reasons for doing things and I'm staying at home on this one. We have no business being there. We are not good enough to be there at the moment.

Is this the post you're talking about?

1. His personal opinion on the atmosphere in each ground, fair enough but not a good reason for not having an 83,000 sellout for the opening game of the league in our 125th year.

2. Ok but Tyrone and Kerry wouldn't sell it out, Dublin will and we need that for our 125th celebration, which like other neutrals I hope to be there for.

3. I accept we should promote the National League more but are ye being used as a cash cow and if so, so what, we all benefit?

4. That's very personal and hardly reflective of all Dublin fans, is it?

[criostlinn]

Anfield- built by liverpool , played in by liverpool
old trafford- built by man u , played in by man u
croke park built by the gaa, played in by multiple teams at the gaa's discretion.
parnell park built by dublin, played in by dublin
healy park built by tyrone , played in by tyrone

now can anyone pick the odd one out? if anyone wants to play at the other venues , they have to ask the people who own the ground. If Dublin wanted to play all their league games in Croker they'd have to ask the hierachy of the Gaa for permission. Why because they own the ground. If it was our home venue, we wouldn't have to ask anybody.
I would say on an average year we play as many games in parnell park as we do in croke park , so where people come to the conclusion we play  more at croke park is quite often beyond me. Its simply lazy and selective analysis based on championship appearances where games are moved to a neutral venue to accomodate a bigger crowd. Dublin concede home advantage to get more tickets , same as in Ulster when games are moved to Clones. Does anyone mean to tell me that Clones is Tyrone's home venue by virtue of the fact they play a lot of games there?
I doubt it.

I didnt want to re enter the debate but I think I have found a very easy way to solve it which the Dublin lads who like comparing everything to soccer will understand.

Engand play there home soccer games at Wembley the national stadium developed and owned by the English FA. Similar to Dublin playing there home games in Parnell Park the stadium developed by the Dublin county board. From time to time the FA ask Man Utd for example if they can use there ground for an international friendly. Man Utd own this ground similarly to the way the GAA centrally own Croke Park and not the English FA who own Wembley. So when England play Germany in a friendly in Old Trafford is this:
a) a home game for England as its being played in Manchester England or
b) a neutral/away game for England because the English FA dont own Old Trafford?

Anfield- built by liverpool , played in by liverpool  Anfield is in Liverpool. If Anfield closed in the morning and Liverpool started to play in Goodison then Goodison would be the home ground
old trafford- built by man u , played in by man u     Same as above
croke park built by the gaa, played in by multiple teams at the gaa's discretion.       In Dublin and all dublin championship matches played here
parnell park built by dublin, played in by dublin     Built by dublin with the assistance of the GAA and various grants. Used mainly for dublin club matches with the   exception off 3-4 county football matches and 3-4 county hurling matches each year
healy park built by tyrone , played in by tyrone  Situated in Tyrone

I dont get the point here. Maybe look closer to home. Leinster Rugby's home is Donnybrook. Yet they play all Heineken cup matches in the RDS. Are you saying that when they play in the RDS they are giving up home advantage.

[under the bar]

Anfield- built by liverpool , played in by liverpool  Anfield is in Liverpool. If Anfield closed in the morning and Liverpool started to play in Goodison then Goodison would be the home ground

Anfield was actually built by Everton.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Thats not an argument Dreamer because no other international team uses Old Trafford. I mean Brazil don't play argentina at old trafford. In other words the only international team that can use old trafford to play an international game is England. Scotland won't be playing Albania there. England has exclusive international rights to Old Trafford if they want.
But 32 counties can  use Croke park in the same competition that dublin participate in , so how in the name of christ that can be deemed a home venur for dublin defies logic.

How many other counties use Oliver Plunkett Park tacadoir to play league games. I mean do tyrone play down in crossmaglen in a national league game? didn't think so. Nobody else uses parnell park to play divisional league game there unless they ask us for permission. If Dublin want to use croke park to play a league game they have to ask the gaa authorities for special dispensation to do so. If Tyrone played armagh in croke park in a divisional game would tyrone be at home? Doubt it.
This is as much a home game for tyrone as it is for dublin.

No other county team uses Croke Park as a county ground. During the summer they may be asked to play a neutral championship match there. This would be like Euro 96 games being played in Old Traffford between countries not involving England. Old Trafford is not Englands official home ground, however when they choose to play there it would be considered a home ground because its in England and the opposition are from a different country. Its not that difficult a concept to understand. Club grounds have also been used in England by other countries to stage international games.

Using your logic Ireland have been playing international friendlys in soccer and rugby at a neutral ground for 2 years when using croke park. The venue is not owned by the IRFU or FAI and the gaa are only using them as a "cash cow". I hope you's werent part of the open croke park so Ireland dont loose home advantage brigade. Because in reality Croke Park is a neutral venue just like Anfield was going by what your saying.

I'm also sick of this "im sick of being used a cash cow" line. As I asked earlier are you being asked to pay any more financially to attend Dublin games than any other county supporter. Why would your begrudge the gaa making money when you are part of the gaa and the money will be used for gaa development?

[INDIANA]

Because we're losing home advantage and getting nothing back in return for it. In return we don't get stand alone fixtures in the championship and many Dublin fans will go without tickets. In turn they are also denying the association millions of euro by not having stand alone championship games in the summer that could build clubhouses for rural clubs who don't have any. People like you don't see that, because you're totally blinkered when it comes to Dublin.
So to summarise they are quite happy to get us on board to fill the stadium for this anniversary game but won't give the same Dublin people tickets in the summer with a stand alone game,when it can be very easily done. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Instead of actually having a consistent marketing campaign nationwide for the National League they use the dubs in a bi-annual charade to give the impression the league is a thriving competition. And then they deny the same fans tickets in the summer when the real action starts and also deny the association millions of euro. Thats why I'm not going and I couldn't care less what the rest of you think of it.

[Gnevin]

Because we're losing home advantage and getting nothing back in return for it. In return we don't get stand alone fixtures in the championship and many Dublin fans will go without tickets. In turn they are also denying the association millions of euro by not having stand alone championship games in the summer that could build clubhouses for rural clubs who don't have any. People like you don't see that, because you're totally blinkered when it comes to Dublin.
So to summarise they are quite happy to get us on board to fill the stadium for this anniversary game but won't give the same Dublin people tickets in the summer with a stand alone game,when it can be very easily done. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Instead of actually having a consistent marketing campaign nationwide for the National League they use the dubs in a bi-annual charade to give the impression the league is a thriving competition. And then they deny the same fans tickets in the summer when the real action starts and also deny the association millions of euro. Thats why I'm not going and I couldn't care less what the rest of you think of it.

Well said

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Because we're losing home advantage and getting nothing back in return for it. In return we don't get stand alone fixtures in the championship and many Dublin fans will go without tickets. In turn they are also denying the association millions of euro by not having stand alone championship games in the summer that could build clubhouses for rural clubs who don't have any. People like you don't see that, because you're totally blinkered when it comes to Dublin.
So to summarise they are quite happy to get us on board to fill the stadium for this anniversary game but won't give the same Dublin people tickets in the summer with a stand alone game,when it can be very easily done. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Instead of actually having a consistent marketing campaign nationwide for the National League they use the dubs in a bi-annual charade to give the impression the league is a thriving competition. And then they deny the same fans tickets in the summer when the real action starts and also deny the association millions of euro. Thats why I'm not going and I couldn't care less what the rest of you think of it.

What mathces are you referring to? I can only think of 1 big double header involving Dublin this last 4 years were you's may have been denied tickets. The last 2 years the gaa have went out of there way to give Dublin stand alone fixtures.

[INDIANA]

Dreamer they've done it in the leinster championship as well over the last few years. The gate receipts of all the counties combined form the majority of the association's income. Why you'd want to deny yourself millions is beyond me. Its not much to ask that they could at least say for giving up home advantage we'll give you a stand alone quarter final if you get there and not repeat the likes of 2004 which was plain ridiculous.
I don't think a rural club wuld give a shite if their clubhouse was built from the proceeds of one of these games from Dubs, whether they be cocaine sniffers,bank robbers or otherwise as we're frequently described here. Or putting the tyrone v dublin on a saturday this year at short notice to suit the likes of Cork. Why can't we get any concessions like everyone else Its not much to ask.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

I still dont know what games your referring to. I can only think of 1 Dublin match that may have sold out on its own that was played as a double header. This last few years the gaa have went of their way to ensure it doesnt happen. The supporters who miss out would only be your summer fans who you arent to worried about anyway because you want them to miss the Tyrone league game.

[INDIANA]

I'm not repeating myself dreamer. I'll leave it at that on this one.