Panorama- What the Police were never told.

[donalmac99]

you know that based on a televison programme?

Well no, but that's why we need a public enquiry donal.

fair enough ziggy.

[Main Street]

The issue of the cover up is serious enough on its own.
Seriously hampering the investigation and the natural right of the relatives to see the perpertrators face trial.

At a minimum they were hiding their incompetence with the the cover up.
If they were prepared to scuttle the investigation into the North's worst tragedy what else were they capable of covering up?

[heganboy]

Not quite the same.

Whilst blame should never be taken away from the people who planned, built and carried out the bomb, the British Government cannot wash it's hand of blame too. They knew in advance the names of the men, they knew what they were planning, they knew on the day of the bomb something was up and they were heading to Omagh.

They could have been stopped and should have been stopped.
But as I said, the RIRA should never be absolved of blame either.

you know that based on a televison programme?

Hey I resemble that remark- here's the list of things I learned from tv:


1. The ventilation system of any building is the perfect hiding place. No one will ever think of looking for you in there, and you can travel to any other part of the building you want without difficulty.
2. You're very likely to survive any battle in any war unless you make the mistake of showing someone a picture of your sweetheart back home,
3. Should you wish to pass yourself off as a German officer, it is not necessary to speak the language. A German accent will do.
4. A man will show no pain while taking the most ferocious beating but will wince when a woman tries to clean his wounds. That will finish in a sex scene.
5. If staying in a haunted house, women must investigate any strange noises in their most diaphaous underwear, which is just what they happened to be carrying with them at the time the car broke down.
6. If a large pane of glass is visible, someone will be thrown through it before long.
7. If someone says, "I'll be right back", they won't.
8. Computer monitors never display a cursor on screen but always say: "Enter Password Now".
9. It is not necessary to say hello or goodbye when beginning or ending phone conversations. And none of your friends have to knock when they come for a visit. In addition, every front door can be opened from the outside without having to use a key.
10. Even when driving down a perfectly straight road, it is necessary to turn the steering wheel vigorously from left to right every few moments.
11. All bombs are fitted with electronic timing devices with large red readouts so you know exactly when they're going to go off.
12. A detective can only solve a case once he has been suspended from duty.
13. If you decide to start dancing in the street everyone around you will automatically be able to mirror all the steps you come up with and hear the music in your head.
14. Police departments give their officers personality tests to make sure they are deliberately assigned a partner who is their total opposite.
15. When they are alone, all foreigners prefer to speak English to each other.
16. Any bullet from a handgun has enough force to throw a full-grown man ten feet back.
17. Characters will always find a parking space right in front of the building they're going to even in a large metropolitan city where parking is basically impossible.
18. Characters at a bar or at a restaurant table will always get the attention of a server at the exact moment they need to order.
19. When a gift/present is given, the top is wrapped separately from the rest of the box and it lifts straight off so that there is never any ripping or fumbling with wrapping paper.
20. A chase scene on foot in a city always has a shot of one of the characters running into the street, nearly being hit by a car screeching to a halt at which point the driver flails his arm out the window and yells an expletive.
21. Anytime a character in an awful rush confronts another character curious about his predicament, the first one says, "There's no time to explain," and then explains anyway.
22. No matter how slow zombies walk they will always catch up.
23. The bad guy will always throw his gun at you to indicate he has run out of bullets.
24. A candle or table lamp can light a whole room and at night time, it's blue.
25. If the main guy is in love with the main girl, he will always get her in the end, even if she's married. If she is married, her husband will always say "oh well, if it makes you happy"... and he'll never go to beat the crap out of the other guy.
26. If you are in a film, it is easy for you to master the skill of controling any vehicle you need, weather it be landing a plane, for example.
27. Everybody when needing a computer can type supper fast and never need to hit the space bar!
28. Computers never freeze or crash, unlike in the real world.
29. The computers have super duper graphics programes which can zoom into blurs in fotos to make them super clear!
30. The best way to get laid is to put on some slow jazz music.
31. Everytime the "hero" is sneeking into the bad guy's room, checking secret files on the computer:
   1a. The password is already typed in.
   1b. The password is very simple.
   2. There appears a very slow bar saying "copying", "deleting" or "printing" and it is finished just before the bad guy, the security guard or the mexican cleaner comes in.
   3. In addition to your non-booting computer, they are also turned off in a flash.
   4. All the characters, even the blonde bimbo's put in to lure us to the cinema, became all-knowing super-mega-nerds once behind a computer. They always know what to do and how to avoid things.
32. Good guys never panic, they stay cool at point black range, and bluff their way out with the "you could surely use me in your plan" crap.
33. Heavy guns, for example on helicopters, cause cosmetic damage to the hero's transport, but one bullet makes the chopper blow up.
34. Text appearing on a computer monitor appears letter by letter and making a sound as if it was produced by a typewriter.
35. You can find whatever you want on the net in a matter of seconds.
36. If in a battle scene a bad guy actually manages to shoot a good guy, the good guy's friend has the time to listen to his friend's dying speech. Once dead, the friend stands up and shoots the correct bad guy (amongst a whole host of bad guys). The bad guy has apparently been sitting around just waiting to be shot!!
37. No Australian movie is complete without one of this:
   1. A Kangaroo.
   2. A Boomerang.
   3. Ayers Rock.
   4. A Koala.
   5. All of the above.
38. When someone uses a TV remote it makes a clicking sound that is impossible to replicate by existing remotes.
39. When gunfire erupts in public places and cops respond instantly to it, they're usally killed by the first shots.
40. When gunfire erupts in public, where there are no cops, they take forever to arrive, but they can still chase the gunmen.
41. Detectives can watch a drug deal (carried out furtively in a shop doorway) go down from a distance of five yards away by the simple expedient of sitting in a car with a newspaper raised to eye level.
42. Cats always make a noise. If someone is creeping into a house and is momentarily scared by a cat, it always has to meow before running off.
43. A woman being chased by a murderer will always fall over, either because she's running in stilettos or is ridiculously clumsy.
44. Serial killers never just die... they will remain still for ages so that the hero is fooled and walks right past them... at which point the killer grabs their ankle and then keeps fighting.
45. It is possible to drive safely for long periods with your head turned completely away from the road ahead, either in conversation or looking at a map.
46. People brush their teeth before eating breakfast but not afterwards, at which point they run out the door with a piece of toast in their mouth.
47. Aussie accents in American films always sound like a mix of Cockney, South African and New Zealander. And they say things like "Streuth!" and "Blimey!"
48. The bad guy's sexy girl will try to seduce the good guy, then when that fails will beat him up using martial arts. That while wearing skintight leather, lycra and stilettos.
49. Women can never find their car keys while being pursued by a killer. Once they do find them, it takes them ages to fumble the keys into the ignition, giving the killer enough time to reach the car and pound on the window.
50. Somehow cars take several turns of the key to start but only when someone is chasing you.
51. Every bad guy knows how to tie really complicated knots... which somehow the good guy manages to untie.
52. A person investigating strange noises in their house always finds that the lights don't work, then stumble around in the dark rather than getting a torch. At least one of the noises they hear will turn out to be made by a cat.
53. When a cat eats a fish, it leaves the skeleton perfectly reserved and intact.
54. Dogs always bark at ghosts.
55. Vicious guard dogs can be easily distracted with a piece of steak.
56. Mice can somehow fashion a perfectly semi-circular entrance to their dwelling.
57. A small goat is capable of propelling a fully grown man through the air by butting him in the ass with it's horns.
58. Many animals, when they consume alcohol, will take on human drunken characteristics, usually to the sound of a trombone being played.
59. Anytime a person is expecting a bad guy to jump out at them, often they'll sigh in relief when it's just the cat, or the wind, or a tree branch against the window. But as soon as they let their guard down and laugh at their "silliness", they're going to be attacked by the bad guy that really was there after all.
60. When someone puts a baby down to bed, that baby coos and smiles, and then just goes right off to sleep. It's amazing.
61. If someone jumps off a bridge into a river, lake, etcetera, the water will always be deep enough to keep them from getting hurt. But when a bad guy falls from a river, he/she's good as gone.
62. Police officers never wait for back-up.
63. The only time people do say hello on the telephone is when it turns to be the bad guy on the other end of line calling to torment them.
64. Bad things usually happen to women who are alone in the house on stormy nights.
65. If you are driving somewhere on any other route other than a city roadway, you will probably have that road all to yourself and will not pass or be passed by another vehicle.
66. In the movies everyone seems to have some odd "L shaped" sheets on their beds able to cover a woman up to her neck and her partner up to his waste.
67. Being around a bomb causes time to slow down.
68. Bad guys die instantly, good guys die slowly.
69. When the good guy is being attacked by a gang, they will run at him one at a time while the rest stay (in the case of ninjas, dance) around in a menacing manner, allowing him to kick all of their asses by the time the scene is over.
70. Most of police investigations will require at least one visit to a strip club.
71. You can jump from a tall building and land on mattresses, a pile of boxes, or a dumpster full of garbage and, though you might groan and be a little slow getting up, you will not sustain any serious injury.
72. It's very easy to fool the security guards at highly top secret government institutions.
73. It's very easy for a computer hacker to break a security code and find just the information he's looking for in less than a minute.
74. If you're a criminal mastermind, you cannot just shoot the hero in the back, you have to tie him up and wait for some diabolical machine to finish the hero off and you can't wait around to make sure it works, which allows the hero a chance to escape, which he always does because apparently no bad guy ever got his knot tying badge in the boy scouts.
75. When an ugly girl takes off her glasses, gets a haircut, and puts on nice clothes she is suddenly very hot.
76. No matter who you are calling, no matter what time you are making the call, the person you're calling will always answer the phone, usually after only one or two rings. Of course, this assumes you aren't running from a killer while trying to make a call on a cell phone, in which case there is a 100% chance that either the battery will be dead or you won't be able to get a signal.
77. Whenever you put on a seatbelt, you will get into an accident.
78. The good guy always has the cooler cell phone.
79. If you chase someone through a park you will never step in dog poop or chewing gum, but you will always step on someone's picnic.
78. No matter how crowded the bar is, there are always extra stools available right in front of a bartender who is just standing there waiting for someone to order.
80. People who oversleep and get woken up by phone calls go straight to work without making the bed, but when they get home at night, their bed is made.
81. People in movies rarely have to shave, and whenever a guy does shave, he will be interrupted while half finished, and will wipe the remaining shaving cream off with a towel. Of course, even the part he didn't get to shave will be perfectly smooth.
82. When a good guy enters a house, he/she will avoid every shot of machine gun fire while killing a lot of bad guys. He/she doesn't need to reload his pistol until he runs out of ammo, which coincidentially happens when the main bad guy appears, at which point he fights him/her hand to hand.
83. In battle, a normal peon soldier is shot with one bullet and instantly drops dead to the ground, while the protagonist in said battle can be shot in various places by multiple shooters, and survive with a few bandages and a cast.
84. It doesn't matter who you call, if they choose not to answer their phone you will get their voicemail in less than 1.5 rings.
85. A devious villain will immediately shoot a non-important character whenever needed without hesitation. However when he finally has the chance to kill the hero seeking to craft his doom, he will undoubtedly hold a firearm trained on said protagonist for at least 90 seconds while performing a well-written soliliquoy. This delay is all the hero needs to escape.
86. When a woman is being pursued by a scary serial killer that she knows is in her house, she will always run upstairs instead of out of the house.
87. You can break into any house or door with a credit card.
88. The bad guy will always tell the good guy every detail about his masterplan instead of just shooting him.
89. Whenever a guy and a girl hop into a bed together in three seconds the girl will start moaning and will be close to climaxing. Plus the guy will always put a minimal effort, after all she will still be screaming and moaning away.
90. When someone has stopped breathing and has no pulse, simply breathing into her mouth twice and looking extremely distressed while screaming "DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!" will bring her back to life immediately.
91. In a TV episode where someone will probaly die, there's always an extra character that no one has ever seen before to kill him.
92. Aliens will always have more advanced technology than us.
93. When you turn on the tv, the news will always be on.
94. People never obey warnings.
95. There's always a corrupt police officer.
96. Movie theatres and drive-ins only show classic horror movies.
98. If you meet a member of the opposite sex, and you both hate each other... don't worry... you'll eventually fall in love with each other.
99. Major disasters always happen in New York.
100. The President is always very considerate and well-spoken. Not to mention he always is able to fly a jet fighter when needed.

[Zapatista]

they are the only ones responsible. other may be responsible for other things, dereliction of duty, failure to act on information received ect , but only those involved in making planting and detonating the bomb are responsible for the bombing.

Perhaps the members of the RIRA involved were guilty of a dereliction of duty, failure to act on information recieved etc.. This makes them Guilty of killing those people in Omagh. The act of making, planting and detonating a bomb alone does not lead to killing people. However there is a great chance it will. There are many different aspects to why so many people died that day and they might not be entirely down to the bombers even though the bombers are guilty.

if i see a guy robbing and beating up  an old woman and do nothing to help her then i am guilty of not helping her, i am not guilty of beating her up or robbing her, nor am i responsible for her being beaten and robbed.

True. But it is a poor example.

If you are a Police man and you know that a guy is going to beat up an old woman and you do nothing about it then you are partially guilty. If you had pre knowledge of the beating and followed the man, even though you had time you did nothing to intervene (even though you had the ability) you would be guilty. If you then, as a witness to the event did nothing to try to catch the man and have him face justice you would be guilty. I would also be wondering why you would do such a thing. The old lady who was beating up and robbed would like to know also I am sure.

[Puckoon]

Perhaps the members of the RIRA involved were guilty of a dereliction of duty, failure to act on information recieved etc.. This makes them Guilty of killing those people in Omagh. The act of making, planting and detonating a bomb alone does not lead to killing people. However there is a great chance it will. There are many different aspects to why so many people died that day and they might not be entirely down to the bombers even though the bombers are guilty.

Lets be honest here - we can look for extra scapegoats all we want. You can attempt to assume the bomb was only intended for a strategic target.

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again - any man/men/woman/women who can assemble a car bomb, drive it into a busy town centre on a saturday afternoon, and abandon it - are guilty of murder. I couldnt give two fucks if that wasnt the "primary intention". You play with fire - and you need to accept you are prepared to burn someone. Those murdering c***ts and all who give them on iota of support or attempt in any way to deflect from their actions leading up to the 15th August 1998 can rot, in hell, for eternity.


The british and irish governments and handlers are another equation altogether - there is no seperating the bomb makers and planners and transporters from the atrocity in Omagh. None.

[Hardy]

Spot on Puck. Saved me typing much the same.

[ardmhachaabu]

Puckoon, it's not that I disagree with what you have said.  It's just that I think that those in governement in both states on the island have a lot to answer for in regards to the Omagh bombing.  Let's not forget the innocent people who were murdered that day.  Their families deserve to know exactly what went down and who was responsible for their loved ones' deaths.  The bombing could have and should have been prevented by the intelligence agencies and police forces in both states acting together, sharing information and crucially, acting on said information

[Puckoon]

Puckoon, it's not that I disagree with what you have said.  It's just that I think that those in governement in both states on the island have a lot to answer for in regards to the Omagh bombing.  Let's not forget the innocent people who were murdered that day.  Their families deserve to know exactly what went down and who was responsible for their loved ones' deaths.  The bombing could have and should have been prevented by the intelligence agencies and police forces in both states acting together, sharing information and crucially, acting on said information

The same bombing could have and should have been prevented if callous, cowardly murderers with no regard for the lives of innocent men women and children hadnt sat together and decided to build a huge car bomb and drive it into a packed town centre.

What happened after that is neither here nor there, and while some day people will want answers - the blame for the 31 deaths, the ruination of hundreds of more lives will continue to lie solely at the feet of the perpetrators of the Omagh bomb. Governments may have alot to answer for - but they did not pack a car boot full of explosives, place a detanator and timer in a lunch box, pack the whole thing in a car and send it into the foot of market street.

While I would love answers as to why the police forces acted the way they did, and why the followup was such a f**k up - that is not as high on my prioroty list (nor Im sure the real victims of the omagh bombing's priority list) as seeing the people responsible for planning, making and delivering the bomb be delivered to justice.

[Yes I Would]

The truth from this unfortuantely will never be told.

The reality is that the RIRA were a shower of scum heavily infiltrated from the outset by the intelligence services north and south of the border.
The same intelligence and security services who helped mastermind and orchestrate murderous campaigns throughout the troubles. 
I have no doubt that the secuirty services knew this bomb was en route to Omagh. Mass carnage and death resulted as a fcuk up by those dimwits who were sent with the bomb. 

Anyone directly involved or who had knowledge of what was planned for that day is guilty of mass murder in my opinion. This includes those mascarading as republicans, and those invloved in the murky world of Special Branch and the British Intelligence services at the time.

[Uladh]

The man who actually made the bomb is also supected of being an "agent". He is now back living in Newry after being on the run for over 20 years in the south.

You have bad info so. it's common knowledge round s armagh who built the bomb and you haven't described him at all

[Zapatista]

Lets be honest here - we can look for extra scapegoats all we want. You can attempt to assume the bomb was only intended for a strategic target.

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again - any man/men/woman/women who can assemble a car bomb, drive it into a busy town centre on a saturday afternoon, and abandon it - are guilty of murder. I couldnt give two f**ks if that wasnt the "primary intention". You play with fire - and you need to accept you are prepared to burn someone. Those murdering c***ts and all who give them on iota of support or attempt in any way to deflect from their actions leading up to the 15th August 1998 can rot, in hell, for eternity.


The british and irish governments and handlers are another equation altogether - there is no seperating the bomb makers and planners and transporters from the atrocity in Omagh. None.

I am no tmaking a scapegoat for anyone. I know the bombers are guilty.

Do you support the call for an independent inquiry? If so should it be to inquiry about the activities of the RIRA alone or should it branch futher into the role played by the security forces? I think it should inquire into the security forces and the investigation too. Do you think that as it was the RIRA that planted the bomb that they are the only ones who are guilty and so it would be pointless investigating anyone else? Are the families (after failing to see the bombers convicted) wrong to wonder why that happened?

[Down Gael]

The man who actually made the bomb is also supected of being an "agent". He is now back living in Newry after being on the run for over 20 years in the south.

You have bad info so. it's common knowledge round s armagh who built the bomb and you haven't described him at all

The bomb was  mixed by a ginger haired man from Newry, who is now back living in the North after many years on the run in and around Dundalk. He was mentioned under privilege in the house of commons as an MI5 agent, which may explain why he has never been questioned about it. To be honest I was very surprised to hear his name mentioned in such circumstances, but then he did have a fall out with Adams, McGuinness and co a few years ago and this may just be black propaganda.

[orangeman]

Report rejects Omagh bomb claims 

Omagh was the biggest loss of life in a single attack in the Troubles
An official report has rejected claims that vital intelligence about the Omagh bombing was deliberately held back.

Intelligence Services Commissioner Sir Peter Gibson said information on the bombers was shared with police, but could not have stopped the 1998 attack.

In his report, Sir Peter said details from telephone intercepts were passed on "promptly and fully" and in accordance with proper procedures.

Twenty-nine people were killed when a Real IRA car bomb exploded in the town.

A BBC Panorama programme had claimed that intelligence officers based at GCHQ had monitored the bombers' phone calls, but had failed or refused to pass information to RUC detectives hunting the killers in the days following the attack.

  I think there was a large amount of high-grade intelligence available

Michael Gallagher

Following the programme last September, Gordon Brown commissioned Sir Peter to conduct a review of all intelligence material stemming from the bombing.

In his report, Sir Peter said: "I am satisfied that in the days surrounding 15th August and on the day itself, to the extent that any relevant intelligence was derived from interception, it was shared with RUC HQ and Special Branch South promptly and fully, and done so with the latter in accordance with procedures agreed with Special Branch South.

"No police witness before me was aware of any request to GCHQ being refused and there was warm praise from the head of Special Branch and the regional head of Special Branch South for the work done by GCHQ in Northern Ireland."

Sir Peter also said there was no evidence before him that police in the Republic had warned the RUC of a likely attack.

He also dismissed the programme's claims that intelligence officers had tracked the movements of the bombers' car, saying technology was not advanced enough in 1998 to do that.

  I commend Sir Peter Gibson for the thorough and exhaustive way that he has approached the task

Shaun Woodward

He said: "The portrayal in the Panorama programme of the tracking on a screen of the movement of two cars, a scout car and a car carrying a bomb, by reference to two "blobs" moving on a road map has no correspondence whatever with what intercepting agencies were able to do or did on 15 August 1998.

"On the basis of evidence from an independent expert witness from a mobile communications service provider I am satisfied that in 1998, it was neither possible to track mobile phones in real time nor to visualise the location and movement of mobile phones in the way that was shown in the Panorama programme."

Michael Gallagher, whose son Aiden was one of the 29 people killed in the atrocity, said he did not accept that the Real IRA attack could not have been prevented.

"I think there was a large amount of high-grade intelligence available," he said.

'Monitoring'

''The fact that GCHQ themselves were monitoring - live or otherwise - demonstrates that.

"We had 27 attacks before Omagh, we had numerous amounts of warnings and one in particular to Omagh police station."

The chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Sir Hugh Orde, in a letter to the NI Secretary of State Shaun Woodward, said: "I agree with Sir Peter's conclusions that such information, as was available to other agencies, was being passed to Special Branch promptly in line with agree procedures.

"I also strongly endorse his view that none of that information could have prevented the atrocity."

Mr Woodward, speaking in the House of Commons on Wednesday, said: "I commend Sir Peter Gibson for the thorough and exhaustive way that he has approached the task in looking at lessons to be learned in the sharing of intercept material on the day and around the time of the Omagh bombing."