Irishmen in British uniforms

[Mentalman]

I have personally known a number of southerners who have served in the RIR, the Irish Guards and even the SAS, but at the time this was all kind of hush hush. To a man it has either been because the Irish Army refused them or they wanted to see action i.e. kill people and blow shit up. What also struck me as weird was most of them had negative experiences of discrimination because they were Irish, although I would have thought that was to be expected.

Not trying to put you on the spot, but can you give me an idea or example of discrimination they faced ? WAs it just verbal been referred to as an Irish b**tard etc or what ?? And did any of them regret joining the brits due to their experiences ??

A lot of verbals, like I said I thought that would have been expected, especially during training. One guy I know, an experienced soldier, got in serious trouble when he retaliated one night, against two Royal Irish Rangers as it happened, so he totally regretted his time there. Came home and joined the Fire Services - obviously a bit of an adrenaline junky.

[donalmac99]

Are the Northern prods seen by you as 'irishmen in british uniforms'

if 'yes' then what is the big sudden shock?

if 'no' then are you saying that they are infact NOT as  Irish as say someone from Dundalk?

[Denn Forever]

One of the greatest Irishmen in history also took the kings/queen's shilling. Tom Crean.  If you ever get the chance, go to the one man play about Tom Crean.  Some man for one man.

[saffron sam2]

Hardy's stories would suggest that screenexile had a very lucky escape indeed.

[Mentalman]

One of the greatest Irishmen in history also took the kings/queen's shilling. Tom Crean.  If you ever get the chance, go to the one man play about Tom Crean.  Some man for one man.

Brilliant play, the classic line being "That young officer said something, I tell you now, I never heard in all my years of service - 'I made a mistake!'". Crean's brother was reputedly shot by the IRA, as he was, or had been, a member of the RIC. But as stated earlier, those were different times, when an Irish alternative wasn't available.

Are the Northern prods seen by you as 'irishmen in british uniforms'

if 'yes' then what is the big sudden shock?

if 'no' then are you saying that they are infact NOT as  Irish as say someone from Dundalk?

Not sure what you are getting at really. First off religion has nothing to do with it. I do count Northern Unionists as Irishmen, as I believe they are whether they like it or not by virtue of being born on the island of Ireland. I wouldn't expect them to necessarily join the Irish Army though, as their political allegiance is to the the British crown. As for as a big sudden shock, I don't think there is one. What this is about is lads who are citizens of the Republic of Ireland, with absolutely no dual loyalties, largely joining the British army for thrills, but then we are somehow supposed to feel sympathy, beyond that normally extended to anyone berived, when these characters meet their maker in service of a foreign government.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Cannot feel any sympathy for these lads, they sign up knowing the risks, you take the money you take the associated risks.
I however do feel for their families as they are the ones who really suffer.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone (Irishman) would want to join the British army.

[Tankie]

Cannot feel any sympathy for these lads, they sign up knowing the risks, you take the money you take the associated risks.
I however do feel for their families as they are the ones who really suffer.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone (Irishman) would want to join the British army.

could you not say the same for people who supports british soccer teams or work for british companies etc?

[maddog]

Cannot feel any sympathy for these lads, they sign up knowing the risks, you take the money you take the associated risks.
I however do feel for their families as they are the ones who really suffer.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone (Irishman) would want to join the British army.

could you not say the same for people who supports british soccer teams or work for british companies etc?

Ach now thats some leap

[Tankie]

Cannot feel any sympathy for these lads, they sign up knowing the risks, you take the money you take the associated risks.
I however do feel for their families as they are the ones who really suffer.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone (Irishman) would want to join the British army.

could you not say the same for people who supports British soccer teams or work for British companies etc?

Ach now thats some leap

It really depends on what way you look at it, its all well and good to say that an Irish man should not be fighting in the British army or support the British establishment but then in the next breath say its OK to travel over a support their soccer teams and economy. There are many British businesses that are bad for ireland that i do not see people say boycott them or don't shop in Tesco. Personally I see Britain as a neighbour and a partner in the EU so i don't care what people get up to but people who think its wrong to fight in the British army but support everything else are just hypocrites.

[maddog]

Cannot feel any sympathy for these lads, they sign up knowing the risks, you take the money you take the associated risks.
I however do feel for their families as they are the ones who really suffer.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone (Irishman) would want to join the British army.

could you not say the same for people who supports British soccer teams or work for British companies etc?

Ach now thats some leap

It really depends on what way you look at it, its all well and good to say that an Irish man should not be fighting in the British army or support the British establishment but then in the next breath say its OK to travel over a support their soccer teams and economy. There are many British businesses that are bad for ireland that i do not see people say boycott them or don't shop in Tesco. Personally I see Britain as a neighbour and a partner in the EU so i don't care what people get up to but people who think its wrong to fight in the British army but support everything else are just hypocrites.

Ireland has always been closely linked with Britain in more ways that we would care to admit. However picking up a gun to fight for Lizzy is somewhat different to going over to watch Celtic for example. (personally i'd do neither)

[donalmac99]

One of the greatest Irishmen in history also took the kings/queen's shilling. Tom Crean.  If you ever get the chance, go to the one man play about Tom Crean.  Some man for one man.

Brilliant play, the classic line being "That young officer said something, I tell you now, I never heard in all my years of service - 'I made a mistake!'". Crean's brother was reputedly shot by the IRA, as he was, or had been, a member of the RIC. But as stated earlier, those were different times, when an Irish alternative wasn't available.

Are the Northern prods seen by you as 'irishmen in british uniforms'

if 'yes' then what is the big sudden shock?

if 'no' then are you saying that they are infact NOT as  Irish as say someone from Dundalk?

Not sure what you are getting at really. First off religion has nothing to do with it. I do count Northern Unionists as Irishmen, as I believe they are whether they like it or not by virtue of being born on the island of Ireland. I wouldn't expect them to necessarily join the Irish Army though, as their political allegiance is to the the British crown. As for as a big sudden shock, I don't think there is one. What this is about is lads who are citizens of the Republic of Ireland, with absolutely no dual loyalties, largely joining the British army for thrills, but then we are somehow supposed to feel sympathy, beyond that normally extended to anyone berived, when these characters meet their maker in service of a foreign government.

so they are irish, but not as irish as those with dual loyalties?

[Tankie]

Cannot feel any sympathy for these lads, they sign up knowing the risks, you take the money you take the associated risks.
I however do feel for their families as they are the ones who really suffer.

I just find it difficult to understand why someone (Irishman) would want to join the British army.

could you not say the same for people who supports British soccer teams or work for British companies etc?

Ach now thats some leap

It really depends on what way you look at it, its all well and good to say that an Irish man should not be fighting in the British army or support the British establishment but then in the next breath say its OK to travel over a support their soccer teams and economy. There are many British businesses that are bad for ireland that i do not see people say boycott them or don't shop in Tesco. Personally I see Britain as a neighbour and a partner in the EU so i don't care what people get up to but people who think its wrong to fight in the British army but support everything else are just hypocrites.

Ireland has always been closely linked with Britain in more ways that we would care to admit. However picking up a gun to fight for Lizzy is somewhat different to going over to watch Celtic for example. (personally i'd do neither)

there is a longer history of irishmen fighting for britain than there is of an irishman traveling to watch a british soccer match. People just decide to choose what is ok in their view that suits their life and then take the view of one thing is different to another. i dont care what people get upto in regard to either but i think the point should be made that people are very selective about what is ok to support when it suits what they are doing!

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Tankie I would make the same statement about an Irishman joining the French/German/Russian armies.
If someone is killed whilst fighting for a foreign nation I will not shed any tears.
As for your economic or culturial/sporting comparisons, well they are just ott, but I'm sure you knew that already.

[scud]

Yea, I support Chelsea and I just love hotdogs, I must say this Georgian conflict is a real headache

[Tankie]

Tankie I would make the same statement about an Irishman joining the French/German/Russian armies.
If someone is killed whilst fighting for a foreign nation I will not shed any tears.
As for your economic or culturial/sporting comparisons, well they are just ott, but I'm sure you knew that already.

i think you are being a bit harsh on people joining foreign armies. without the world armies defending freedom we would probably be all been run by germans or russians, its all well and good to say that people shouldnt join other armies but if Ireland was ever to be attached the first place the Government would go running to is the Brits and I dont think many would complain about them landing in Ireland to defend our fredom just because we do not have an army big enough to defend the country. You are taking a very old world view on joining foreign armies.