Viva espana - new FIFA rankings

[Main Street]

The Irish constitution is actually very confused on this issue. The Irish state is pretty liberal on allowing dual nationality, yet its constitution demands the primary allegiance of all citizens to the State.

Where exactly in the constitution do you consider it to be confused on this issue?
Where exactly do you think it demands primary allegiance?

And consider the case of a mate of mine, former serviceman who got an Irish passport purely for the sake of convenience as his British one has military stamps on it that wouldn't be too popular in some parts of the world. Doesn't even consider himself Irish, never mind have any sort of allegiance to or affinity with the Republic of Ireland.

Whats to consider?
If he is born in NI, he can choose to take up his automatic right to be an Irish citizen under the Constition of Ireland and therefore can enjoy the rights and protection that Irish citizens have under the constitution.

[MW]

The Irish constitution is actually very confused on this issue. The Irish state is pretty liberal on allowing dual nationality, yet its constitution demands the primary allegiance of all citizens to the State.

Where exactly in the constitution do you consider it to be confused on this issue?
Where exactly do you think it demands primary allegiance?

It states "Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens". Fair enough it doesn't say the State has to have someone's primary allegiance per se, but it's not exactly totally compatible with someone having fidelity and loyalty to another nation-state.

And consider the case of a mate of mine, former serviceman who got an Irish passport purely for the sake of convenience as his British one has military stamps on it that wouldn't be too popular in some parts of the world. Doesn't even consider himself Irish, never mind have any sort of allegiance to or affinity with the Republic of Ireland.

Whats to consider?
If he is born in NI, he can choose to take up his automatic right to be an Irish citizen under the Constition of Ireland and therefore can enjoy the rights and protection that Irish citizens have under the constitution.

What's to consider is that he holds no affinity with or allegiance to the Republic of Ireland, and indeed doesn't even see himself as Irish.









[/quote]

[Main Street]

It states "Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens". Fair enough it doesn't say the State has to have someone's primary allegiance per se, but it's not exactly totally compatible with someone having fidelity and loyalty to another nation-state.

Your original opinion on what the constitution was about, had no basis in fact. That's a minor point, no big deal but you have a tendency to go and on and on and on, discussing things beyond the limits of tedium.
"Not exactly totally compatible"  you have certainly stated the obvious that also describes most things in life and brought this particular segment to a close.

What's to consider is that he holds no affinity with or allegiance to the Republic of Ireland, and indeed doesn't even see himself as Irish.

It's no secret that there is a large number of people born in the North who are entitled to Irish citizenship who do not see themselves at all as Irish, who recognise no Irish identity at all.
Just as there is a large nr of people in the North who see themselves as Irish with no British identity at all.

Your mate had the free will not to avail of this Irish citizenship but he has done so, for his own travel convenience, maybe he is grateful for that choice maybe not.
When in the jurisdiction of the state the same requirements as per the constitution will be made of him as are made of any other citizen.

[MW]

It states "Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens". Fair enough it doesn't say the State has to have someone's primary allegiance per se, but it's not exactly totally compatible with someone having fidelity and loyalty to another nation-state.

Your original opinion on what the constitution was about, had no basis in fact. That's a minor point, no big deal but you have a tendency to go and on and on and on, discussing things beyond the limits of tedium.
"Not exactly totally compatible"  you have certainly stated the obvious that also describes most things in life and brought this particular segment to a close.

What's to consider is that he holds no affinity with or allegiance to the Republic of Ireland, and indeed doesn't even see himself as Irish.

It's no secret that there is a large number of people born in the North who are entitled to Irish citizenship who do not see themselves at all as Irish, who recognise no Irish identity at all.
Just as there is a large nr of people in the North who see themselves as Irish with no British identity at all.

Your mate had the free will not to avail of this Irish citizenship but he has done so, for his own travel convenience, maybe he is grateful for that choice maybe not.
When in the jurisdiction of the state the same requirements as per the constitution will be made of him as are made of any other citizen.

So...to sum up, you do recognise that there are some people who could hold citizenship of a state, the Irish state even, but simply use it as a flag of convenience without having any affinity or allegiance (or, some might say, "fidelity" or "loyalty") to that state.

Super. All good then.

[Main Street]

 
Why did you not ask that in the first place you eejit?

[MW]

Why did you not ask that in the first place you eejit?

Meh, I like the verbal scenic route

[Donagh]

Spain still hanging in there at No.1 with Ireland ten places below that soccer powerhouse of Ghana.

1   Spain   1657   0   Equal   14
2   Germany   1413   1   Up   77
3   Italy   1356   -1   Down   -9
4   Netherlands   1306   1   Up   48
5   Brazil   1286   -1   Down   6
6   Argentina   1181   1   Up   -19
7   Croatia   1158   -1   Down   -65
8   Russia   1079   1   Up   3
9   Czech Republic   1062   -1   Down   -49
10   Portugal   1058   0   Equal   -17
10   England   1058   4   Up   76
12   France   1035   -1   Down   0
13   Turkey   1032   0   Equal   11
14   Cameroon   1013   -2   Down   -14
15   Israel   1004   1   Up   43
16   Bulgaria   951   -1   Down   -18
17   Paraguay   934   5   Up   74
18   Greece   907   -1   Down   -38
19   Romania   892   -1   Down   -35
20   Ukraine   883   -1   Down   -10
21   Egypt   879   1   Up   19
22   Nigeria   852   5   Up   34
23   Uruguay   838   -3   Down   -49
24   USA   834   -3   Down   -27
25   Mexico   827   -1   Down   -14
26   Ghana   805   -1   Down   -34
27   Switzerland   799   18   Up   158
28   Côte d'Ivoire   780   1   Up   1
29   Sweden   776   -1   Down   -18
30   Serbia   775   10   Up   102
31   Ecuador   771   11   Up   110
32   Poland   765   -2   Down   2
33   Scotland   761   -7   Down   -59
34   Denmark   757   -3   Down   -3
35   Chile   753   1   Up   39
36   Republic of Ireland   751   2   Up   50

[billy the kid]

Where did you get them at?

[ziggysego]

Where's the North?

[An Fear Rua]

Where's the North?

just above East and West

[billy the kid]

Spain still hanging in there at No.1 with Ireland ten places below that soccer powerhouse of Ghana.

1   Spain   1657   0   Equal   14
2   Germany   1413   1   Up   77
3   Italy   1356   -1   Down   -9
4   Netherlands   1306   1   Up   48
5   Brazil   1286   -1   Down   6
6   Argentina   1181   1   Up   -19
7   Croatia   1158   -1   Down   -65
8   Russia   1079   1   Up   3
9   Czech Republic   1062   -1   Down   -49
10   Portugal   1058   0   Equal   -17
10   England   1058   4   Up   76
12   France   1035   -1   Down   0
13   Turkey   1032   0   Equal   11
14   Cameroon   1013   -2   Down   -14
15   Israel   1004   1   Up   43
16   Bulgaria   951   -1   Down   -18
17   Paraguay   934   5   Up   74
18   Greece   907   -1   Down   -38
19   Romania   892   -1   Down   -35
20   Ukraine   883   -1   Down   -10
21   Egypt   879   1   Up   19
22   Nigeria   852   5   Up   34
23   Uruguay   838   -3   Down   -49
24   USA   834   -3   Down   -27
25   Mexico   827   -1   Down   -14
26   Ghana   805   -1   Down   -34
27   Switzerland   799   18   Up   158
28   Côte d'Ivoire   780   1   Up   1
29   Sweden   776   -1   Down   -18
30   Serbia   775   10   Up   102
31   Ecuador   771   11   Up   110
32   Poland   765   -2   Down   2
33   Scotland   761   -7   Down   -59
34   Denmark   757   -3   Down   -3
35   Chile   753   1   Up   39
36   Republic of Ireland   751   2   Up   50

37  Australia                739 -3  2
38  Japan                   722 -6  -25
39  Guinea                  691 2  21
40  Colombia                686 -7  -53
41  Lithuania                 677 -4  -29
42  Northern Ireland       670 -7  -51   43  Morocco                  646 0  4
44  Iran                        642 4  23
45  Slovakia                  627 15  106
46  Honduras                 623 4  22
47  Tunisia                   613 0  -11
48  Finland                   611 -5  -31
49  Mali                        603 4  16
49  FYR                       Macedonia 603 -3  -34

Well now you fans of the team representing 2/3rds of Ulster who put so much faith and substance in these rankings a while back there, what you make of that.

[nifan]

Yes we put so much faith in it:

The biggest use of these rankings is slagging off whoever is below you.
When we where at 110 my mates all seemed to think they where a lot more relevant than they now do.

[billy the kid]

NIfan its not you who that was aimed at as you are one of the more reasonably minded posters on this thread(from both sides) and to be honest it was written in jest and not in a serious manner.

I dont rate  the rankings very highly as a barometer for a teams quality or capabilities they are merely a very loose guide and are far from being totally accurate.

The best way to judge how good a team are, is by the tournaments they qualify for and how they progress in those tournaments, as Rep. of Ireland and N Ireland have failed to qualify for any tournaments in a while it would be fair to say both have been poor enough of late.  This may or may not change after this qualification campaign but we will have to wait and see.

[Main Street]

The FIFA rankings determined the seedings for the 2010 WCQ draw.
That's about the long and the short of it all.
FIFA don't give out any ranking prizes.

Next time they will be used could well be for the WC draw for 2014.

[Goats Do Shave]

Can see N Ireland slipping outside the top 75 by the end of the qualifiers