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[Main Street]

Right, so Houghton is "Scottish"  but Cascarino is "British", not "English".

I wrote
"Obviously Tony and Cas are British nationals as they are that by birth.
They have British and Irish nationality"

I meant to write Houghton and Cas, not Tony and Cas who are the same person.
So you can stop masturbating that one now.

Tony and Cas      wtf
'

and Hartson is "Welsh"

I wrote
"John Hartson is called a Welshman"
Hartson is a British national.

Problem is, I'm from Northern Ireland.

True enough.

Is Northern Irishness a Nationality, like that of our Celtic cousins, or is it not, like the Englishness

What a stupid line.
Do you know anything about your nationality status?
Northern Ireland is not a nationality.
Which Celtic cousins of NI are Nationalities? I do not know of any.
Not Scotland or Wales for sure.

[MW]

Apparantly you do make a distinction between a dual national and a mono national. And rate one superior to the other.
There is a denigration of their dual nationality as being somehow inferior to a born on the soil national.

There's a vast difference between someone holding dual nationality and someone thinking "oh, I remember my ma saying her ma was from Ireland, maybe I could play international football after all" and then getting an Irish passport

I always rated NI for qualifying for the WC finals.
The Republic had some superb players 1982 and 1986 and failed to qualify when NI had less to choose from and achieved much more.
(It cant have been that much of a deal, for NI fans,  were there more than 50 NI fans in Spain?
Maybe 20 in Mexico?)

There were hundreds of Northern Ireland fans in Spain.

If you can't tell the difference between the present day and the early 1980s when travel was more difficult and expensive and there wasn't so much of a tradition of international fans travelling, then you're an idiot.

And if you think the 1982 or 1986 World Cups weren't "that much of a deal for NI fans" then you're an idiot twice over.

Looks like you've been stung at what I said, so mcuh so that you feel the need to have silly digs about NI's World Cup appearances.

Dual nationals, mono nationals, never made a difference to me. As long as I can remember we have had a team composed of English based players,  Kids who left Ireland when they 15 or 16. My own family are spread far and wide around the world, my own children are dual nationals, I understand Dual Nationality and how much it means (regardless of the age of awareness) and I understand  and accept the criteria for national team selection in soccer. As long as I can remember I have always had a confidence about my Irishness and an acquired knowledge of the sensibility of our constitution on the issue of nationality eligibility.

I would have thought that the "moral backbone" of  the Charlton era was evident when they came away with Qualification  in that cesspit of hatred, Windsor Park 1991. Once a team displays that solidarity and belief in those circumstances of extreme adversity then they have nothing to prove about the quality of their nationality or questions of pride in that nationality.

Aye, a 1-1 draw against a crap Northern Ireland team really proves "the quality of their nationality", right enough

[Main Street]

There's a vast difference between someone holding dual nationality and someone thinking "oh, I remember my ma saying her ma was from Ireland, maybe I could play international football after all" and then getting an Irish passport

Back again to some ignorant justification for maintining prejudiced views on supposed levels of nationality superiority, the more ethnically pure national.

After taking up the citizenship, a dual national is equal in the eyes of the constitution.
There is no room for subjective prejudiced appraisal of that citizenship in the law.
It has already been established and accepted in this thread what matters in a football sense after a player becomes eligible to play.
On the football field, playing for ones country is another matter and real fans can appreciate the effort and appraise the sincerity of a footballer over the years to his country.
Football fans demand standards.
I have already dealt with the ignorance to Cascarino's adoption.

There were hundreds of Northern Ireland fans in Spain.

If you can't tell the difference between the present day and the early 1980s when travel was more difficult and expensive and there wasn't so much of a tradition of international fans travelling, then you're an idiot.
And if you think the 1982 or 1986 World Cups weren't "that much of a deal for NI fans" then you're an idiot twice over.
Looks like you've been stung at what I said, so mcuh so that you feel the need to have silly digs about NI's World Cup appearances.

No my dear, juvenile rivalry and schoolyard abuse does not sting.

Maybe travelling to away games was not a culture for NI fans then.
It was not that difficult for the "impovershed" Republic fans.
Qualifying games in Holland, Belgium and France were attended by thousands from 1979 to 1983.

Aye, a 1-1 draw against a crap Northern Ireland team really proves "the quality of their nationality", right enough

I referred to the victory over the adversity in the cesspit of hatred that was Windsor Park then.
We know the NI team was at it's 'natural level'.

[nifan]

I have to side with Main Street on this one  MW.
Can we honestly look back at NI at the time and say well at least his father was from NI, if it was his mother he wouldnt know anything about the place.

Our recent attempt to get some naturalised british players with completely zero connection with the place has removed any moral high ground we may have believed we had.

[Evil Genius]

I have to side with Main Street on this one  MW.

Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? 

Just remember what we do to "Lundys"!

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I have to side with Main Street on this one  MW.

Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? 

Just remember what we do to "Lundys"!

EG why do you always feel the need to bring religion/politics into every topic you post on here? Saxon/Protestant/Taig it gets tiresome.
Nifan you at least have an open view on most things, pitty you support the wee six, go on transfer (you haven't played a competive full international yet) we'd love to have you. 

[nifan]

pretty you

now steady on GDA, lets keep this platonic

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

pretty you

now steady on GDA, lets keep this platonic

Ah crap, the drink is starting to control the fingers on the keyboard! 

[Main Street]

Keep your distance Nifan

[Evil Genius]

I have to side with Main Street on this one  MW.

Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? 

EG why do you always feel the need to bring religion/politics into every topic you post on here? Saxon/Protestant/Taig it gets tiresome.

Don't you know that Prods and Taigs sing different hymns? Anyhow, it must be because I'm an Atheist (thank God), who has the same lowly opinion of just about all forms of organised religion...

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I have to side with Main Street on this one  MW.

Now steady on, nifan. Aren't we "OWC Crowd" all meant to be singing from the same (Protestant) Hymn Sheet all the time? 

EG why do you always feel the need to bring religion/politics into every topic you post on here? Saxon/Protestant/Taig it gets tiresome.

Don't you know that Prods and Taigs sing different hymns? Anyhow, it must be because I'm an Atheist (thank God), who has the same lowly opinion of just about all forms of organised religion...

So if your Godless, why keep bring religion into your posts?

[Evil Genius]

So if your Godless, why keep bring religion into your posts?

The same reason as (the Godless) Dave Allen or Dermot Morgan always did? A bit of a laugh, perhaps?

[Main Street]

So if your Godless, why keep bring religion into your posts?

It's not the religion.
That's just his way, typecasting GAA members, that we think like that.
A byproduct of that is that he can dig into the recesses of his typecasting to justify his perverse comments on GAA members.

[MW]

Back again to some ignorant justification for maintining prejudiced views on supposed levels of nationality superiority, the more ethnically pure national.

Please stop talking bulls**t about my posts. I have no interest in what ethnicity any footballer is.

After taking up the citizenship, a dual national is equal in the eyes of the constitution.
There is no room for subjective prejudiced appraisal of that citizenship in the law.

That doesn't actually prevent me from having an opinion on nationality and allegiance, now does it?

The Irish constitution is actually very confused on this issue. The Irish state is pretty liberal on allowing dual nationality, yet its constitution demands the primary allegiance of all citizens to the State.

And consider the case of a mate of mine, former serviceman who got an Irish passport purely for the sake of convenience as his British one has military stamps on it that wouldn't be too popular in some parts of the world. Doesn't even consider himself Irish, never mind have any sort of allegiance to or affinity with the Republic of Ireland.

Hmm, did someone say "Alan Kernaghan"?

Anyhoo, I don't actually care what national label(s) someone wants to attach to themselves. My point was simply that you were misrepresenting NI's footballing history. And as a secondary point, that I think that it's a greater achievement for, say, Latvia, to make a major finals with a substantially Latvian-born (or indeed Latvian-raised) team than one packed with people who have adopted Latvian identity through ancestry rules. If you want to argue with that point, feel free.

It has already been established and accepted in this thread what matters in a football sense after a player becomes eligible to play.
On the football field, playing for ones country

Hmm, "one's country". Was Vinnie Jones playing for his country when he turned out for Wales? Was Alan Kernaghan play for his country when he turned out for the Republic of Ireland.

I actually wrote in a "tribute to Iain Dowie" article years ago that he wasn't playing for his parents' country, he was playing for his country. And I meant it. But I don't think that Maik Taylor, for example, is playing for his country.

is another matter and real fans can appreciate...

As opposed to what other kind of fans?

I have already dealt with the ignorance to Cascarino's adoption.

I haven't mentioned Cascarino

No my dear, juvenile rivalry and schoolyard abuse does not sting.

Kindly point me to where I have used "abuse"?

And methinks I did sting you - otherwise what motivated you to have a competely unwarranted dig at NI fans' attitude to Spain 82 and Mexico 86?

Maybe travelling to away games was not a culture for NI fans then.
It was not that difficult for the "impovershed" Republic fans.
Qualifying games in Holland, Belgium and France were attended by thousands from 1979 to 1983.

Northern Ireland's support in Spain 82 was proportionally much, much better than England's or Scotland's so your daft non-point still falls.

Anyway (and speaking from a time when NI's travelling support betters many much bigger countries' across Europe), travelling to away games or even major tournaments isn't actually such a great index of how much fans care about their team in said match/tournament - witness the passionate fans in Spain who are notoriously poor travellers.

I referred to the victory over the adversity in the cesspit of hatred that was Windsor Park then.

So, you think it was some sort of brilliant achievement to get a draw in that match because they were playing a game in front of 12,000 people a minority of whom were chanting some unpleasantly prejudiced songs? Cleary on a bike...

We know the NI team was at it's 'natural level'.

Oooh, get her. Stung again I see. Wonder what you think the RoI's "natural level" is given the teams' fairly similar records...

[MW]

I have to side with Main Street on this one  MW.
Can we honestly look back at NI at the time and say well at least his father was from NI, if it was his mother he wouldnt know anything about the place.

I'm not sure I get what you mean with that last sentence. I don't think the "father not mother" rule was anything other than silly - just illustrating how restrictive the IFA's eligibility criteria were for such a long time, and how we managed to play in three World Cups despite this (and indeed do pretty damn well in two of them).

Our recent attempt to get some naturalised british players with completely zero connection with the place has removed any moral high ground we may have believed we had.

While I'm glad we have Maik Taylor in our squad, this wasn't a route I wanted us to go down and I certainly didn't want to see the team packed with people with no connection at all to Northern Ireland except their passport having "and Northern Ireland" on it.

But it's also got to be acknowledged that that was an avenue open to us only during 9 years of our history in any case (and was utilised twice).