The poor standard of Ulster football

[Will Hunting]

On a few other threads I've noticed the questioned raised about the quality of Ulster Football at the minute, and I feel this topic probably deserves a thread of its own. These questions are fairly pertinent in the wake of what was a dismal weekend for Ulster teams in Croke Park, and it's not surprising that the overall quality of Ulster Football should be questioned after some of the poor performances we witnessed.

Tyrone (and I'm sure even our Tyrone posters will agree) were lucky enough to come out on top of a 50/50 game. Only for some (typical) Mayo implosion, we could have seen all 4 Ulster teams beat this weekend.

Monaghan put on a decent performance. Certainly they had Kerry rattled and had chances to push them closer. But a lack of overall quality cost Monaghan, and Kerry's win (like last year) came down to a stronger squad and a cutting edge.

Down were dismal. Fermanagh were horrible.

When you consider that Fermanagh disposed of Derry and Monaghan and Monaghan disposed of Derry and Donegal, you have to agree that Ulster football may have several teams competing at a decent level, but they are nowhere near the quality required to trouble the big boys. In fact, when you see that Armagh and Tyrone are (once again!) the only two Ulster teams remaining it tells you all you need to know about the standard in Ulster. I don't think either side are near the heights of recent years, yet they continue to fly the flag. (Although, at the minute I would hazard an opinion that Monaghan are possibly Ulster's best team.)

I would expect both Armagh and Tyrone to get beaten by Dublin in the coming weeks, but even if one wins I'm not sure they have what it takes to beat Kerry as well.

Overall, I think the standard in Ulster has dwindled. As more ingredients have been added to the pot, the flavour has decreased. People who claim that Ulster is the strongest province, surely can't do so with any conviction.

[full back]

People who claim that Ulster is the strongest province, surely can't do so with any conviction.

I wouldnt say it is the strongest but it certainly is the most competitive

[Arthur]

On a few other threads I've noticed the questioned raised about the quality of Ulster Football at the minute, and I feel this topic probably deserves a thread of its own. These questions are fairly pertinent in the wake of what was a dismal weekend for Ulster teams in Croke Park, and it's not surprising that the overall quality of Ulster Football should be questioned after some of the poor performances we witnessed.

Tyrone (and I'm sure even our Tyrone posters will agree) were lucky enough to come out on top of a 50/50 game. Only for some (typical) Mayo implosion, we could have seen all 4 Ulster teams beat this weekend.

Monaghan put on a decent performance. Certainly they had Kerry rattled and had chances to push them closer. But a lack of overall quality cost Monaghan, and Kerry's win (like last year) came down to a stronger squad and a cutting edge.

Down were dismal. Fermanagh were horrible.

When you consider that Fermanagh disposed of Derry and Monaghan and Monaghan disposed of Derry and Donegal, you have to agree that Ulster football may have several teams competing at a decent level, but they are nowhere near the quality required to trouble the big boys. In fact, when you see that Armagh and Tyrone are (once again!) the only two Ulster teams remaining it tells you all you need to know about the standard in Ulster. I don't think either side are near the heights of recent years, yet they continue to fly the flag. (Although, at the minute I would hazard an opinion that Monaghan are possibly Ulster's best team.)

I would expect both Armagh and Tyrone to get beaten by Dublin in the coming weeks, but even if one wins I'm not sure they have what it takes to beat Kerry as well.

Overall, I think the standard in Ulster has dwindled. As more ingredients have been added to the pot, the flavour has decreased. People who claim that Ulster is the strongest province, surely can't do so with any conviction.

Is that based on the competitive matches Dublin have had to date?

[T Fearon]

Agree entirely. Overall standard is low and has declined since Armagh and Tyrone were in their peak around 2002-2005, and this was reflected by the absence of Ulster teams from the semi final stages in 2006 and 2007. Sadly I don't see any prospect of Tyrone living with Dublin and I have doubts whether my own beloved County are suitably equipped with the requisite experience to handle Dublin this year, in the semi final. Here's hoping I'm wrong of course.

I think there's too much emphasis on sports science crap and a neglest of the basics,, eg training Fermanagh forwards to kick a pigskin over the bar every now and again at least

The standard of jornalism up here is abysmal as well. Nearly everyone talked realistically about 4 Ulster winners at the weekend. Now while I am all for loyalty to Ulster, a little pragmatism wou;dn't go amiss every now and again.Fans with typewriters.

[Big Mickey]

yep have to agree with both of use there,ulster football while perhaps not the strongest is defineitly the mots competitive.i mean,u claimed mongahan are possibly the strongest team and i would agree with you there (although derry arent far of it either) and they were dumped out by probably wouldve bn counted as the second worst team at the start of the year fermanagh.wouldnt happen in any other provence.

though if ulster isnt the strongest which is,definitley not leinster,munster have cork and kerry but nothing else and connacght well,galway are alright but not brilliant.so depends whether you judge strenght by the single best team or as a which has the strongest overall teams if u get what im saying???

[INDIANA]

lets cut to the chase lads, the standard is generally crap across the board. i don't think any province is better than any other. we're at our lowest ebb in terms of standard for 10-12 years.

[Bensars]

Agree entirely. Overall standard is low and has declined since Armagh and Tyrone were in their peak around 2002-2005, and this was reflected by the absence of Ulster teams from the semi final stages in 2006 and 2007. Sadly I don't see any prospect of Tyrone living with Dublin and I have doubts whether my own beloved County are suitably equipped with the requisite experience to handle Dublin this year, in the semi final. Here's hoping I'm wrong of course.

I think there's too much emphasis on sports science crap and a neglest of the basics,, eg training Fermanagh forwards to kick a pigskin over the bar every now and again at least

The standard of jornalism up here is abysmal as well. Nearly everyone talked realistically about 4 Ulster winners at the weekend. Now while I am all for loyalty to Ulster, a little pragmatism wou;dn't go amiss every now and again.Fans with typewriters.

Thank you Tony, a recommendation from you is just what we wanted. Your history of predictions is legendary on this board.


In regards the standard, its poor all around. Nothing specific to Ulster.

But if you want a panel of guys who could compete in the Olympics, a side effect is the ommission of the skill set footballer.

[T Fearon]

Have a look at the predictions competition in the Belfast Telegraph pal, and tell me who is 19 points clear at the top

[ziggysego]

I'm just glad to see that Tony is finally admitting that the standard of football was high in Tyrone during the glory years.

[Maguire01]

Yes, Ulster may only have two teams in the last 8 - not great. But another Ulster team (Monaghan), were drawn against 2 relatively strong Ulster teams in the qualifiers. Had the draw been different, there may have been more Ulster teams left today. At the same time, the other three provinces are all relying on one or two big teams. I don't see the AI heading north this year (although i think Armagh are ebst placed to have a stab at it), but i wouldn't be unduly worried.

As for Tony's criticism of journalists, many would have put their money on three of the four teams making it out of this weekend's matches. Down and Fermanagh really let themselves down and both should be better than their performances at the weekend.

[armaghniac]

Overall standard is low and has declined since Armagh and Tyrone were in their peak around 2002-2005, and this was reflected by the absence of Ulster teams from the semi final stages in 2006 and 2007. Sadly I don't see any prospect of Tyrone living with Dublin and I have doubts whether my own beloved County are suitably equipped with the requisite experience to handle Dublin this year, in the semi final.

Not much more to be said. We are almost in an early 1970-80s scenario where you have Kerry out in front, with Dublin not far behind, with Ulster teams sometimes giving them a hard game in the championship, e.g. Monaghan and likely to get one over on them in the league as Derry did with Kerry and Armagh with Dublin this year.

Had the draw been different, there may have been more Ulster teams left today.

back when there were no qualifiers Ulster teams sometimes progressed at the expense of Connacht ones, like Armagh in '77. But like Monaghan this year the run stopped at Kerry.

[erne bhoy]

Although I admit fermanagh were awful, that was definitely not a true account of the potential of the current team. After all very few teams can afford to lose their talisman and possibly the best full back in the country in barry owens, never mind fermanagh and im not saying we're world beaters, definitely not after the last two performances, but we did have 2 wars with a very sapping armagh team (those o'rourkes would do your head in) and the emotional and physical effect of 3 games in 2 weeks took its toll but our first three performances cannot be discarded. We could have had monaghan beaten out the gate in the first round only for a lack of scoring power and it can't be said that monaghan wernt up for it and we completely outplayed a strong derry team for 3/4 of the match before letting are old achilles heel of lack of scoring power and confidence finish us off against a decent armagh team who are flattering to decieve.

imo ulster has been very unlucky with the draw this year in that monaghan have beaten derry and donegal each by a single point in games that could have swung either way and then drawn the only proven outstanding team in the country in kerry. It's more luck of the draw than class that has brought tyrone and armagh to the QT ahead of derry monaghan and donegal as imo they are all equal ability terms.

Kerry and dublin are the best teams in the country followed by the ulster quintet,mayo,galway and cork in a second tier of sorts(maybe a bit hastily thrown together but you see where i'm coming from). So i would say that ulster is still strongest overall though is devoid of a truly outstanging team capable of being a favourite for sam such as kerry or dublin.

[T Fearon]

I would not confuse a hard fought championship with quality though. Teams like Fermanagh and Down who performed well in Ulster have shocking weaknesses, Monaghan and Tyrone failed to perform at all in Ulster, Derry are reliant on two forwards and half a midfield,Donegal haven't got the bottle, Cavan and Antrim are jokes. It was arguably Armagh's easiest Ulster Championship of their recent seven, the complacent collapse against Fermanagh in the first match notwithstanding.

[Will Hunting]

On a few other threads I've noticed the questioned raised about the quality of Ulster Football at the minute, and I feel this topic probably deserves a thread of its own. These questions are fairly pertinent in the wake of what was a dismal weekend for Ulster teams in Croke Park, and it's not surprising that the overall quality of Ulster Football should be questioned after some of the poor performances we witnessed.

Tyrone (and I'm sure even our Tyrone posters will agree) were lucky enough to come out on top of a 50/50 game. Only for some (typical) Mayo implosion, we could have seen all 4 Ulster teams beat this weekend.

Monaghan put on a decent performance. Certainly they had Kerry rattled and had chances to push them closer. But a lack of overall quality cost Monaghan, and Kerry's win (like last year) came down to a stronger squad and a cutting edge.

Down were dismal. Fermanagh were horrible.

When you consider that Fermanagh disposed of Derry and Monaghan and Monaghan disposed of Derry and Donegal, you have to agree that Ulster football may have several teams competing at a decent level, but they are nowhere near the quality required to trouble the big boys. In fact, when you see that Armagh and Tyrone are (once again!) the only two Ulster teams remaining it tells you all you need to know about the standard in Ulster. I don't think either side are near the heights of recent years, yet they continue to fly the flag. (Although, at the minute I would hazard an opinion that Monaghan are possibly Ulster's best team.)

I would expect both Armagh and Tyrone to get beaten by Dublin in the coming weeks, but even if one wins I'm not sure they have what it takes to beat Kerry as well.

Overall, I think the standard in Ulster has dwindled. As more ingredients have been added to the pot, the flavour has decreased. People who claim that Ulster is the strongest province, surely can't do so with any conviction.

Is that based on the competitive matches Dublin have had to date?

Are you coming from an Armagh or Tyrone persepctive here?

I can only judge Dublin on what i've seen of them so far, so yes, I'm basing my opinion of them on their Leinster campaign. They played Louth, Westmeath and Wexford. And strolled through each game (troubled slightly by Westmeath). Tyrone have beaten Louth, Westmeath and Mayo. Similar enough runs. Who have been the more impressive? Not to mention the fact that Tyrone were beaten by Down. Not even in a one-off match, but over 160 mins football. Dublin are the form team in the country. There can be no question about that imo. However, Tyrone will give them their stiffest test to date, and take them to the brink.

Armagh (if it is to be Dublin v Armagh), will stand up to Dublin also, but do they have the overall quality to beat them? I'm not sure. Armagh were certainly deserving winners of Ulster, if not impressive. If Fermanagh ran them ragged for 1.5 games, what could Dublin do to them?

Dublin came extremely close to Kerry last year, and this year I feel they are ready to take that extra step.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Monaghan and Kerry were probably the two best sides playing the weekend, they just happened to be facing each other.

There don't seem to be any really outstanding sides in the competition which leaves it wide open. Kerry have been beaten, Cork will need to beat Kerry in Croke Park to get any real credit, Dublin look the best but need to be tested in the white heat of battle and Galway are still a bit of a mystery yet. Armagh and Tyrone are the only Ulster representatives despite both having regressed somewhat in my opinion. Although they are both strong sides, Donegal, Derry and Monaghan would all have strongly fancied themselves to have won 1 of the last 2 Ulsters but none of these sides have been fit to do so yet.