Tipp v Clare Munster u21 final

[AZOffaly]

Did the goalkeeper puck the ball outside the square?

The umpire impeded him. Come off it. They bumped into each other accidentally. It's not like he stood behind him and pushed him out.

It might be frustrating, but it's not incorrect.

[theskull1]

The umpire impeded him. Come off it. They bumped into each other accidentally. It's not like he stood behind him and pushed him out.

[b]impede     [/b]–verb (used with object), -ped·ed, -ped·ing.

to retard in movement or progress by means of obstacles or hindrances; obstruct; hinder.


I never said it was intentional

[INDIANA]

the ref should have given both goalies a warning beforehand if he was going to enforce that rule. you can't just start implementing a rule that no-one ever enforces. soul destroying for the clare lads, most of them will never play in a munster final again. the ref and his officials got it badly wrong, especially as replays are inconclusive as to whether he was out the 2nd time. To me he wasn't. Not sure we will hear of that ref again. It brings back the debate that refs should be umpires at inter county games , not a few lads from the local pub looking for a day out.

the tipp captain could also have shown a bit of class in his speech but again it only takes a few wins to see the arrogance of tipp again. love to see waterford knock the shite out of them.

[Fairhead]

"4.15 To take the puck-out from outside the small rectangle."

Obviously the key word in the above rule is "outside" but theres no further detail on that as far as i can see in the rules. However if we look at another aspect of hurling namely the ball, when it goes near an end line it is considered "outside" when the whole of the balll is over the line. Using that logic would lead me to conclude that if a keeper does not have both feet outside the square on a puck out then hes not "outside". From the tv replays the Clare keepers back foot was well inside the small rectangle so a wrong decision as far as im concerned.

If the GAA rules were more specific i dont think this debate would be happening today.

[Lecale2]

love to see waterford knock the shite out of them.

While I empathise with the ref I hope your right Indiana.

[EddieMerx]

I'm all for The anti Tipp movement Indy! 1 All-Ireland in 16 years and yet they still think they are up there with the Corks and Kilkenny of this World. *Awaits abuse*

[AZOffaly]

"4.15 To take the puck-out from outside the small rectangle."

Obviously the key word in the above rule is "outside" but theres no further detail on that as far as i can see in the rules. However if we look at another aspect of hurling namely the ball, when it goes near an end line it is considered "outside" when the whole of the balll is over the line. Using that logic would lead me to conclude that if a keeper does not have both feet outside the square on a puck out then hes not "outside". From the tv replays the Clare keepers back foot was well inside the small rectangle so a wrong decision as far as im concerned.

If the GAA rules were more specific i dont think this debate would be happening today.

I must say that's the complete opposite of how I would see it. If the position of the ball determines whether it is in or out of the field of play regardless of where the player is when he strikes it, as you correctly say it does, then surely the same applies here. If the ball is outside the small square, and the strikers back foot is inside the square, surely the 'position' of the ball is outside the square, ergo the puck happens outside.

There's a photo in the independent this morning, that fairly clearly shows the keepers back foot is in the square, albeit right up against the line. The rest of his body is outside the square, and unless he is a contortionist, or hits a ball like no other person I know, the ball would have to be outside as well, probably close to where his front foot is.

The fact that he was called for the same thing in the first half should have served as fair warning, even if he hadn't been warned before the game (which we don't know), so I have little sympathy for him in this instance. If he was getting away with it all day, and then they suddenly decided to pull him at that stage, I'd be much more sympathetic to him, individually.

Of course it's galling for Clare for such a pernickedy rule to cost them, but I think the real problem is that this rule is not enforced rigorously and consistently.

Fr. Gardiner was on the radio today saying that perhaps the penalty for this rule needs to be just a throw in on the 20 metre line, and I think I'd agree with him, but that's a different topic.

[Franko]

"4.15 To take the puck-out from outside the small rectangle."

Obviously the key word in the above rule is "outside" but theres no further detail on that as far as i can see in the rules. However if we look at another aspect of hurling namely the ball, when it goes near an end line it is considered "outside" when the whole of the balll is over the line. Using that logic would lead me to conclude that if a keeper does not have both feet outside the square on a puck out then hes not "outside". From the tv replays the Clare keepers back foot was well inside the small rectangle so a wrong decision as far as im concerned.

If the GAA rules were more specific i dont think this debate would be happening today.

Fairhead. The rule is that the keeper cannot have his foot outside the small rectangle when he's pucking the ball out. It has been a rule in hurling for as long as I can remember and any inter-county goalkeeper will know this rule.  This year the referees have been given special instructions to start enforcing the rule as some goalkeepers are ripping the ass out of it a bit.  (Not that the clare keeper was doing this). Whilst I believe it was a terrible call by the umpire to enforce the rule at this time in such a close game, that is the rule and the keeper would have known this. (especially when he had been pulled up on it earlier on in the game).  I think you are clutching at straws with this one.

[AZOffaly]

Here's the photo by the way.

[Sean3]

I don't believe that the goalie was seeking an advantage with that puckout. There is much debate on whether he was inside or out, or what the rule actually means. In that regard, should the umpire be drawing attention at all? Are umpires allowed draw attention to this type of infringement? It was a match defining decision and everybody should have been absolutely clear that something wrong had occurred before making it. Clare can feel rightly aggrieved.

[smcafee]

the umpire was right.it was a foul.
the gaa should punish clare by banning them from playing u21 hurling next year and closing ennis park for a year.
it might teach some clare animals manners.

[lynchbhoy]

the ref should have given both goalies a warning beforehand if he was going to enforce that rule. you can't just start implementing a rule that no-one ever enforces. soul destroying for the clare lads, most of them will never play in a munster final again. the ref and his officials got it badly wrong, especially as replays are inconclusive as to whether he was out the 2nd time. To me he wasn't. Not sure we will hear of that ref again. It brings back the debate that refs should be umpires at inter county games , not a few lads from the local pub looking for a day out.

the tipp captain could also have shown a bit of class in his speech but again it only takes a few wins to see the arrogance of tipp again. love to see waterford knock the shite out of them.

I'd agree with this.
While the puck out transgression is in the rules, it is not enforced at all. I cannot recall the last time I saw this happening, esp at intercounty level.
So like the football, consistency in refereeing is required. Otherwise it will end up in a farce like the football does every second game at the present time.

[zoyler]

Technically it was a foul but calling it was entirely outside the spirit of the game.  If this is the way hurling and football are to be refed in future will there be any time at all left to actually see the ball or sliotar in play.  I have no idea what the umpire's motive was as I did not see the game but would love someone with a video/dvd to review and see how many puck outs were in breach of the rule and how many were called before this one.

As already stated elsewhere EVERY lineball in football at present is illegal and how many lineballs in hurling are moved in to find a 'nice' spot.  If every rule in life was enforced like this can you imagine the result.  All pubs close EXACTLY on time otherwise fines and pub closures -  brake the speed limits by 1 KPH- fine and points etc. etc. -  result total chaos and annoyance and total disrespect for law and order and those who enforce it.

[imtommygunn]

Donal Og Cusack got pulled for the same offense in the AISF against Waterford a few years ago. Not sure of the exact year but it was the game where Cathal Naughton scored the late goal.

Ridiculous decision. If the letter of the law were stuck to then there would be many many fouls for this but there isn't. Like other people say it's about consistency. Can't imagine how gutted them Clare boys would be. Bad enough losing a final but like this.

[homeofhurling8]

As a Clare man, I was devastated to lose in the manner we did last night.
First off it was a brilliant game that could have gone either way, in front of a big crowd with a great atmosphere. There was no big tension in the crowd despite what some people are saying, and while the game itself was very competitive and tough, it was quite a sporting contest. The referee did have a poor game, but he's not the first referee to have a poor one.

The decision by the umpire at the end was just absolutely ridiculous, he must have got some sort of power complex. It was a marginal enough call, and to make it 3 minutes into extra time with the sides level was incredible.
From what I could see, was that Tipp got an excellent point to equalise, then the Clare goalie started roaring at umpire for a ball for a quick puckout, and then that umpire judged the goalie to have passed the small square during the puckout. Whether he did this as a result of what the goalie said to him, or believed it a genuine call, only he can say.

I believe the referee himself realised this and gave Clare a soft enough free around half-way to equalise, and played an extra 3 minutes to allow another chance of an equaliser, which did not happen.
The reaction of some of the Clare crowd afterwards was both very wrong and disrespectful and has no place in GAA. As for a replay, this is not an option in my view.
For Tipperary, Seamus Callinan gave an exihibition of forward play and Seamus Hennessy was outstanding in midfield. Best of luck to them in the All-Ireland series.

P.S. Very disappointed by Clare fans who booed the winning speech, but also felt it was very poor form by Tipperary captain to make a point of thanking the referee at the start of his speech.

Excellent post roashter,would agree with most of what you said,all this revisionist rubbish about "tension" in the crowd before and during the game is ridiculous,the atmosphere was passionate as always but it was no carbon copy of 99,the aftermath of course is a completely different matter and there will be serious repercussions.

It was very tough on Clare who just about shaded it i thought over the 68 ish minutes,up to the last 4 minutes of injury time i felt Tipp had a lot more to feel aggrieved about with regards to the refs handling of the game,he certainly wasn't getting much stick from Clare fans before the umpires late and misguided intervention.

It seemed to me that Touhy and that particular umpire had a few "exchanges" in the last 10 minutes of the game,one point for Tipp late on was vigorously waved wide by Touhy(even though it was practically over the black spot) right in the umpires face and as Roashter said Touhy definitely had a few verbals with the umpire following Tipps equalising point.obviously we dint know that the umpire was "getting his own back" with his ridiculous decision but if i were a betting man...

In fairness to the ref he did award a (dodgy)free to Clare in a very scoreable position pretty much straight away and when they missed it he proceeded to add another couple of minutes on in the hope that they would equalise,i doubt there would have been much complaint from Tipp had Clare equalised at the death as a result of a dodgy free but it wasn't to be as they struggled to get the ball into a scoreable position.

It really is a pity that such a fine game with so many excellent individual performances was marred by the whim of one individual.

Roashter,ye can certainly be proud of the Clare team,Cooney could well be the heir apparent to old red helmet,McInerney is also an excellent prospect as is Honan,there is life in the banner yet.

In defence of Seamus Hennessy his speech may well have been a little ill advised in the circumstances but he,like some of his team mates,had been jostled,verbally abused and booed on his way up the steps for an incident that had nothing to do with the Tipp players,he is also just out of minor so I'm sure a bit more decorum will come with time.