Confessions

[ziggysego]

Just something to do in the wilds of the Sperrin Mountains on a Saturday night.

[Maguire01]

A person's right to a belief should be respected, as indeed the right to not believe.

And it should also be open to criticism and challenge.

[ziggysego]

A person's right to a belief should be respected, as indeed the right to not believe.

And it should also be open to criticism and challenge.

Yep, but not mocked.

Just for the record, I didn't think you were mocked. The things you said were valid. Don't know what hardstation was on about, must have been at the glue again Maguire

[J70]

A person's right to a belief should be respected, as indeed the right to not believe.

And it should also be open to criticism and challenge.

Yep, but not mocked.

The right to a belief should not be mocked. The belief itself is fair game.

[Maguire01]

A person's right to a belief should be respected, as indeed the right to not believe.

And it should also be open to criticism and challenge.

Yep, but not mocked.

The right to a belief should not be mocked. The belief itself is fair game.

Yes. If someone said they believed in Santa or the Tooth Fairy, the belief itself would be fair game (and if we're honest, we'd probably do a bit of mocking too!).

[pintsofguinness]

A person's right to a belief should be respected, as indeed the right to not believe.

And it should also be open to criticism and challenge.

Yep, but not mocked.

The right to a belief should not be mocked. The belief itself is fair game.

That's true J70 but when religion is mentioned on here there's several posters (and I'm not saying you're one of them) that seem to go out of their way to try and insult and degrade with their sneering remarks like "your pope". 
There is a way of disagree with someone's beliefs (and I don't believe in confession) without sounding like a p***k (and, again, I'm not talking about you).

I also wonder what some people confess(?) For example, does anyone confess to something like premarital sex? Drunkenness, greed and jealously are also classed as sins in different parts the bible - do people confess to these? What about masterbation or use of contraceptives? If so, do they make a conscious effort not to 'sin' again in such ways?

The last time I was at confession, many years ago, I was sitting waiting in the queue and this boy went in to the box and I don't know if the priest was half deaf or what but half the chapel heard him getting a lecture on adultry 

[Yes I Would]

i go to confessions about 3 times a year, maybe christmas, easter, start of lent, times like that.  I have to say i'm telling the same silly sins since i was 12.  bad language, lies etc. petty things

maybe you should kill someone, or have an affair with your neighbours husband and you might have something new to confess

[Maguire01]

i go to confessions about 3 times a year, maybe christmas, easter, start of lent, times like that.  I have to say i'm telling the same silly sins since i was 12.  bad language, lies etc. petty things

So why go? Habit?
It can't be for the 'guilt thing' if you're rhyming off the "same silly sins" since you were 12...

[ziggysego]

I agree, if you don't take it seriously, why bother going?

[The Iceman]

Nice to see the present state of the Catholic Church and the men and women who are raising our children and the future of the Church

I really don't like stereotypes and I don't think many others do.  I don't like that people all over the world think that because I'm Irish I drink more than anyone else and fight every weekend.  

I don't like how people label all priests as closet homosexuals, pedophiles or whatever else.

I don't think it is right either to blast the Church or put it down if you can't put your hand on your heart and say you really gave it every thing you had before deciding it wasn't for you.

Confession is never going to be important in your life if God isn't and by the sounds of it He takes a back seat to everything else going on in your life.  I'm not a Bible basher - I just have a strong faith and always will and I'm sick of Irish people in particular simply bashing the church and running their mouths on something they are definitely not fully informed on.

You know people all over the world think that Irish Catholics have such strong faith? Sad to say they couldn't be farther from the truth

[Maguire01]

Iris? Is that you? But seriously...

Nice to see the present state of the Catholic Church and the men and women who are raising our children and the future of the Church

You've addressed this to "the men and women who are raising our children and the future of the Church". Your implication that those who don't do confession or the Church are somehow less capable of raising children properly stinks. Although you probably should be worried about the future of the Church, but that's your concern, not the country's. The present state of the Catholic Church is as much a result of it's past as it is society's present.

I really don't like stereotypes and I don't think many others do.  I don't like that people all over the world think that because I'm Irish I drink more than anyone else and fight every weekend.  

What's the relevance of this?

I don't like how people label all priests as closet homosexuals, pedophiles or whatever else.

Few people do this. Although the proportions of homosexuals and paedophiles in the priesthood are probably higher than in society in general. Not that I'd have a problem if all of them were homosexuals, would you?

I don't think it is right either to blast the Church or put it down if you can't put your hand on your heart and say you really gave it every thing you had before deciding it wasn't for you.

It's very patronising to imply that those who have rejected the Church/religion have not thought it through. Why should you 'give it everything before deciding it's not for you'? Surely all you have to do is think it through and weigh up the argument in your own mind. (For the record, i have studied religion more than many and have a big interest in religion - I've given it my full consideration. Have you studied religion? Have you fully considered Islam, Judaism, Buddism, before settling on Christianity/Catholicism?)

Confession is never going to be important in your life if God isn't and by the sounds of it He takes a back seat to everything else going on in your life.  I'm not a Bible basher - I just have a strong faith and always will and I'm sick of Irish people in particular simply bashing the church and running their mouths on something they are definitely not fully informed on.

As for God getting 'a back seat' in the lives of many, it may surprise you that he doesn't even get on the roof-rack for many. But please, inform us ignorant people of what we are not fully informed on.

You know people all over the world think that Irish Catholics have such strong faith? Sad to say they couldn't be farther from the truth

Most people know better. Many of those who don't still think the place is populated with leprechauns. And it's not that Irish Catholics don't have strong faith - it's that 'Irish Catholics' aren't really Irish Catholics.

[Pangurban]

What this discussion has high-lighted so far is the complete failure of the system of religious education in Ireland. We have so called adults voicing child like views and opinions. There is a complete ignorance of the concept of moral relativism or the difference between subjective and objective truths. In fact the level of discussion is so appallingly cretinous and misinformed that it is not worth having. Stick to discussing Football, Birds and Booze lads, and dont be displaying your ignorance, leave the serious topics until you attain adulthood

[The Iceman]

Seeing as you like to be all logical and break my points down into readable sentences and address each one separately I'll do the same:

Nice to see the present state of the Catholic Church and the men and women who are raising our children and the future of the Church

You've addressed this to "the men and women who are raising our children and the future of the Church". Your implication that those who don't do confession or the Church are somehow less capable of raising children properly stinks. Although you probably should be worried about the future of the Church, but that's your concern, not the country's. The present state of the Catholic Church is as much a result of it's past as it is society's present.

I don't imply that those who don't do confession do not make a good job of raising children.  Maybe I should have put a hyphen in to make it read like I intended "our children - the future of the church".  And for the record I do think it is quite sad and worrying that our kids do not even get a chance to discover the Church or God or religion for themselves when society, the media and people in general mindlessly bash the Church and white wash the clergy.

I really don't like stereotypes and I don't think many others do.  I don't like that people all over the world think that because I'm Irish I drink more than anyone else and fight every weekend.  

What's the relevance of this?
the relevance is  - I used this to lead into my next statement below....

I don't like how people label all priests as closet homosexuals, pedophiles or whatever else.

Few people do this. Although the proportions of homosexuals and paedophiles in the priesthood are probably higher than in society in general. Not that I'd have a problem if all of them were homosexuals, would you? 

Maybe you should re-read the thread - there are several underhand comments relating to the sexuality of priests and the actions of priests in the confessional box behind the curtain. I wouldn't have a problem if all priests were homosexuals, the Church wouldn't either - but then you know that being so read on religion

I don't think it is right either to blast the Church or put it down if you can't put your hand on your heart and say you really gave it every thing you had before deciding it wasn't for you.

It's very patronising to imply that those who have rejected the Church/religion have not thought it through. Why should you 'give it everything before deciding it's not for you'? Surely all you have to do is think it through and weigh up the argument in your own mind. (For the record, i have studied religion more than many and have a big interest in religion - I've given it my full consideration. Have you studied religion? Have you fully considered Islam, Judaism, Buddism, before settling on Christianity/Catholicism?)
I have studied religion and spent a long time looking into religion - but not as a subject - its not Geography.  And I don't really think it is patronising of me to make the generalisation - the majority of people run down the sacraments, the church, the clergy and really know nothing about the Church (caused as another poster writes  - by a major failure in Catholic education - what we were taught in school isn't what the church teaches at all).  My own faith journey did not involve deciding on what religion to go with - it involved figuring out what I believed and why and then realising the Catholic Church was the place for me.

Confession is never going to be important in your life if God isn't and by the sounds of it He takes a back seat to everything else going on in your life.  I'm not a Bible basher - I just have a strong faith and always will and I'm sick of Irish people in particular simply bashing the church and running their mouths on something they are definitely not fully informed on.

As for God getting 'a back seat' in the lives of many, it may surprise you that he doesn't even get on the roof-rack for many. But please, inform us ignorant people of what we are not fully informed on.
I can see that God may not even be on the roof rack and I don't intend to come across as the fully informed or enlightened one - I am simply offering something towards the opposite end of the spectrum to the original post.

You know people all over the world think that Irish Catholics have such strong faith? Sad to say they couldn't be farther from the truth

And it's not that Irish Catholics don't have strong faith - it's that 'Irish Catholics' aren't really Irish Catholics.
I agree

[J70]

What this discussion has high-lighted so far is the complete failure of the system of religious education in Ireland. We have so called adults voicing child like views and opinions. There is a complete ignorance of the concept of moral relativism or the difference between subjective and objective truths. In fact the level of discussion is so appallingly cretinous and misinformed that it is not worth having. Stick to discussing Football, Birds and Booze lads, and dont be displaying your ignorance, leave the serious topics until you attain adulthood

What, the indoctrination wasn't up to scratch?

[Maguire01]

Nice to see the present state of the Catholic Church and the men and women who are raising our children and the future of the Church

You've addressed this to "the men and women who are raising our children and the future of the Church". Your implication that those who don't do confession or the Church are somehow less capable of raising children properly stinks. Although you probably should be worried about the future of the Church, but that's your concern, not the country's. The present state of the Catholic Church is as much a result of it's past as it is society's present.

I don't imply that those who don't do confession do not make a good job of raising children.  Maybe I should have put a hyphen in to make it read like I intended "our children - the future of the church".  And for the record I do think it is quite sad and worrying that our kids do not even get a chance to discover the Church or God or religion for themselves when society, the media and people in general mindlessly bash the Church and white wash the clergy.

Do children not get the chance to 'discover god'? Is RE not on the curriculum anymore? It was compulsory when i was in school, not that long ago.
Anyway, children don't need to discover the Church as children – they can discover it when they're old enough to understand it, rather than being told that one story is the only truth.
All children need are boundaries and morals. That doesn't necessitate religion.

I really don't like stereotypes and I don't think many others do.  I don't like that people all over the world think that because I'm Irish I drink more than anyone else and fight every weekend. 

What's the relevance of this?
the relevance is  - I used this to lead into my next statement below....

I don't like how people label all priests as closet homosexuals, pedophiles or whatever else.

Few people do this. Although the proportions of homosexuals and paedophiles in the priesthood are probably higher than in society in general. Not that I'd have a problem if all of them were homosexuals, would you? 

Maybe you should re-read the thread - there are several underhand comments relating to the sexuality of priests and the actions of priests in the confessional box behind the curtain. I wouldn't have a problem if all priests were homosexuals, the Church wouldn't either - but then you know that being so read on religion

Well I'm better read than you on this matter!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4480588.stm

I don't think it is right either to blast the Church or put it down if you can't put your hand on your heart and say you really gave it every thing you had before deciding it wasn't for you.

It's very patronising to imply that those who have rejected the Church/religion have not thought it through. Why should you 'give it everything before deciding it's not for you'? Surely all you have to do is think it through and weigh up the argument in your own mind. (For the record, i have studied religion more than many and have a big interest in religion - I've given it my full consideration. Have you studied religion? Have you fully considered Islam, Judaism, Buddism, before settling on Christianity/Catholicism?)
I have studied religion and spent a long time looking into religion - but not as a subject - its not Geography.  And I don't really think it is patronising of me to make the generalisation - the majority of people run down the sacraments, the church, the clergy and really know nothing about the Church (caused as another poster writes  - by a major failure in Catholic education - what we were taught in school isn't what the church teaches at all).  My own faith journey did not involve deciding on what religion to go with - it involved figuring out what I believed and why and then realising the Catholic Church was the place for me.

It's not Geography? Really? I never suggested you had to do an A-Level!
And the poster who cited a failing in Catholic education certainly wasn't arguing your corner!
So you've 'decided' to be a Christian - it's merely a coincidence that you were brought up as one, and irrelevant that you didn't investigate other religions as possibilities. It was pot luck that you were born into the most believeable religion. Fair enough.