The Diva

[screenexile]

Just thought I would post the Paddy Heaney article for a bit of craic...

From irishnews.com

"I didn't think: 'The last manager must have been a poor coach, I'm going to go on to the ground, put my hand on their shoulders and turn them into better players.' I'm not God or something. I'm not clever enough to do that.' Harry Redknapp

On Saturday Harry Redknapp led Portsmouth to their first FA Cup Final victory in 69 years. His team had also finished eighth in the Premier League, Pompey's best league placing in 52 years. Harry's strength as a boss comes from his acceptance that there are limitations to what any manager can do.

Redknapp knows that a manager can't turn bad players into good ones, so when co-owner Alexandre Gaydamak arrived on the south coast, Harry's first request was for "11 new players''. Redknapp went shopping and Portsmouth prospered.

Like Harry Redknapp, Mick O'Dwyer also accepts that there are limitations to his undisputed brilliance as a manager.

Despite the eight All-Irelands he won while in charge of Kerry, there were always some doubts about O'Dwyer's claims to greatness. Such was the quality of the players at his disposal in Kerry, there was a notion that it was only a matter of picking the team.

But O'Dwyer's achievements outside his native county have proved beyond question that when it comes to management, he has the Midas touch.

Guiding Kildare to their first Leinster title in 42 years, and then Laois to their first provincial title in 57 years rank alongside any of his accomplishments with Kerry.

And at the weekend, the 71-year-old continued his miracle-weaving when he led Wicklow to a four-point victory over Kildare.

Young managers like Kieran McGeeney and Jody Gormley must be scratching their heads this week and asking themselves how O'Dwyer does it.

Both Gormley and McGeeney are thoroughly well-versed in modern coaching techniques. They are intelligent, thorough and committed individuals. Yet, at the weekend their teams lost while Micko's won.

How does Master Mick keep outmanoeuvring the ambitious apprentices?

Naturally, a large part of his success stems from his experience, motivational skills, and excellent man-management. But while it would be churlish to overlook O'Dwyer's remarkable skills, it would also be foolish to ignore his dealings in the transfer market.

'But there is no transfer market in Gaelic football!,' I hear you purists cry. Fair enough. But try telling that to Mick O'Dwyer. Surely it's no coincidence that when Micko arrives in a county, it's not too long before a few players decide to leave their native valleys and pledge allegiance to the Kerry legend.

When Micko moved to Kildare, his son Karl moved with him. Karl proved to be a useful acquisition. He was the best player on the pitch when Kildare beat Kerry in the 1998 All-Ireland semi-final. Cork's Brian Murphy also boosted Kildare's attack. He scored the winning goal against Meath in the '98 Leinster final. Brian Lacey had established himself in the Tipperary team when he transferred to the Lilywhites.

Micko's magnetism was also working when he went to Laois. Billy Sheehan, a Kerry U21 footballer, came on board the Laois squad during O'Dwyer's tenure with the O'Moore county.

Since taking the reins at Wicklow, the trend has continued. Thomas Walsh, an excellent midfielder, who served Carlow for seven years, felt the urge to move to Wicklow after Micko became manager.

Naturally, there are many fans who would have misgivings about the manner in which the inter-country transfer market experiences a rise in activity when O'Dwyer lands in a new county.

There is an innate dislike of players moving away from the county in which they were reared.

The dream is to have 15 homeboys lining out for their county of birth. But such idealism is a luxury for counties that have been starved of success.

After four decades without a sniff of silverware, the Lilywhite supporters would have been able to live with the fact that Brian Lacey, Karl O'Dwyer, and Brian Murphy weren't born in Kildare. (Besides, the same county lost Shay Fahy and Larry Tompkins to Cork).

The simple question to consider is whether Mick O'Dwyer has had a positive influence on the promotion and development of Gaelic football in Kildare, Laois and Wicklow.

There can only be one answer. By delivering trophies to counties which were starved of glory, O'Dwyer did more than a dozen coaching officers could ever hope to achieve.

The sad fact of the matter is that the Gaelic Football Championships are fairly predictable affairs. The strong stay strong and the weak stay weak.

Outside Ulster it's a cosy carve-up for the traditional powers. We have Dublin and Meath in Leinster, Cork and Kerry in Munster, and Galway and Mayo in Connacht.

Breaking these duopolies is incredibly difficult. Of course Westmeath (2004) and Sligo last year have proved that it's possible to win provincial crowns without recruiting outside talent.

But then there are not as many commuters living in the aforementioned counties. The same cannot be said of Kildare, Wicklow, and Laois. All managers must try to maximise their strengths and minimise their weaknesses. While managing in Leinster, Mick O'Dwyer has used the transient population in these counties to his advantage.

It's extremely doubtful if Mick O'Dwyer's supreme management skills would have been sufficient on their own to deliver success to his adopted counties.

Indeed, an article published by The Sunday Tribune at the weekend illustrated that prior to Sunday's win over Kildare, O'Dwyer had been no more successful than his predecessor, Hugh Kenny. All that changed on Sunday when O'Dwyer's side beat Kildare.

Managers of weaker counties should study O'Dwyer's dealings. Kieran McGeeney doesn't have enough good scoring forwards. Neither did O'Dwyer when he went to Kildare and that explains why Karl O'Dwyer and Brian Murphy arrived on the scene.

Jody Gormley was starved of options when Lorcan Mulvey took control at midfield on Sunday. Joe Quinn and Benny Hasson were out injured.

Gormley watched Mulvey take four clean catches. In contrast, Thomas Walsh and James Stafford ruled the skies for Wicklow in Croke Park when they outjumped Dermot Earley and Killian Brennan.

Antrim and Kildare will yet again be licking their wounds this week. It's the same old story for Antrim, the Cinderellas of Ulster football.

Wicklow held a similar status in Leinster. Then Micko arrived. Last year's Tommy Murphy Cup triumph was their first victory in Croke Park. Sunday's victory was their first ever Championship win in the big house.

As Antrim reflect, Wicklow rejoice. Thomas Walsh may not have been born and bred in the county he now represents, but you can be guaranteed that Mick O'Dwyer will not hear a whimper of complaint in the Garden county.

If new managers want to emulate the legendary Micko then they should be prepared to copy his methods.

[rosnarun]

if thats the level of Journalism your used to in the north. then it helpes me understand many things written on this board.
it seems  this guy thinks the secret of laois winning Leiinster was the recruitment of a failed Kerry u21 who wasnt even one of laois's better players and all wicklow had to do to start winning Championship games was steal a carlow player.
It has the same smell of chips on shoulder that this whole thread has. Dwyer get far too much praise i mean it not like he can compare to Joe ' won one' kernan. Or Mickey 'wheres canavan' harte

[screenexile]

Like Harry Redknapp, Mick O'Dwyer also accepts that there are limitations to his undisputed brilliance as a manager.

Naturally, a large part of his success stems from his experience, motivational skills, and excellent man-management. But while it would be churlish to overlook O'Dwyer's remarkable skills, it would also be foolish to ignore his dealings in the transfer market.

'But there is no transfer market in Gaelic football!,' I hear you purists cry. Fair enough. But try telling that to Mick O'Dwyer. Surely it's no coincidence that when Micko arrives in a county, it's not too long before a few players decide to leave their native valleys and pledge allegiance to the Kerry legend.

if thats the level of Journalism your used to in the north. then it helpes me understand many things written on this board.
it seems  this guy thinks the secret of laois winning Leiinster was the recruitment of a failed Kerry u21 who wasnt even one of laois's better players and all wicklow had to do to start winning Championship games was steal a carlow player.
It has the same smell of chips on shoulder that this whole thread has. Dwyer get far too much praise i mean it not like he can compare to Joe ' won one' kernan. Or Mickey 'wheres canavan' harte

Can you not read? He has openly praised O'Dwyer's management skills but as AZ has alluded to, he has not ignored the 'cute hoorism' factor that Micko brings to teams (that most other journos don't mention) along with all the other good stuff that helps him make the difference. In fairness he is openly praising Micko here for all of that... in fairness I would be of the same opinion. Take whatever assistance you can get!

[Lar Naparka]

Just thought I would post the Paddy Heaney article for a bit of craic...

And fair play to ya, screen, for doing just that.
I've no reasons to have strong feelings about Mick O'Dwyer, one way or the other; I'm behind Mayo all the way and God knows we have enough problems sorting our arses out from our elbows in our own county to worry about what's going on anywhere else.
There has been one hell of an adverse reaction to Micko's latest exploit and I can't see the reason for this. He is without question the most successful manager the GAA has ever had and it's inevitable that he has stood on some toes along the line but I read nothing negative that was posted here yesterday  that could be called solid or proven fact.
If he is adept at manipulating the media so what?
Every other manager in the land would love to be able to do the same. If any man can hoodwink the entire media so successfully for so long, Bertie would have employed him as a spin doctor and that's for sure!
Besides that, all the blarney in the world counts for nothing when the ball is thrown in. Micko's Wicklow put more scores on the board on Sunday than Kieran McGeeney's Kildare did. I watched the game carefully on Setanta last night and just saw a team that was fitter, faster and more focussed than the opposition.
Declan Darcy led Leitrim to their first Connacht title, even though he was born and living in Dublin.
I don't buy the line that he was eligible because his oul' fella was a Leitrim man either. Either the rules of the GAA allow a non-native to play for a county or they don't. If there was the slightest element of irregularity in the transfer of Billy Sheehan and Karl O'Dwyer to Laois, don't you think other counties would have objected before a ball was thrown in?
In my own county there is one particular crafty little hoor who seems to win an awful lot of close-in frees when he goes man to man with his marker but I never heard John O'Mahony or Mickey Moran being held to account for cynical play. Same goes for Mickey Harte and Tyrone. Tyrone players have often been accused of diving and drawing frees but I can't say Mickey Harte is ever considered personally responsible for this.
Why the difference in Micko's case? Janey; if the man even breaks wind on the sideline many will take it as clear evidence of his deviousness and unsporting behaviour.
I am stressing that I'm just a neutral observer here; Mayo only came across him as a manager once and in that game we beat his Laois side so I've no personal axe to grind, one way or the other.

[orangeman]

Good article - well written and to the point !

[magpie seanie]

Declan Darcy led Leitrim to their first Connacht title, even though he was born and living in Dublin.
I don't buy the line that he was eligible because his oul' fella was a Leitrim man either. Either the rules of the GAA allow a non-native to play for a county or they don't.

Firstly, I believe it was Leitrim's second Connacht title. Secondly, he was completely eligible under rule. Children of people living in Dublin who were from certain counties (of which Leitrim was one) were/are allowed under rule to play for their parents county.

[orangeman]

Declan Darcy led Leitrim to their first Connacht title, even though he was born and living in Dublin.
I don't buy the line that he was eligible because his oul' fella was a Leitrim man either. Either the rules of the GAA allow a non-native to play for a county or they don't.

Firstly, I believe it was Leitrim's second Connacht title. Secondly, he was completely eligible under rule. Children of people living in Dublin who were from certain counties (of which Leitrim was one) were/are allowed under rule to play for their parents county.

Never heard of that one !

Are you sure about that ?

[Billys Boots]

Oh and make no mistake Larry Tompkins did not go to Cork because of work, he went there to play inter-county football.

As I recall, both Tompkins and Fahy were in the Army and requested transfers to Cork to facilitate this con-job.

Children of people living in Dublin who were from certain counties (of which Leitrim was one) were/are allowed under rule to play for their parents county.

Darcy togged out for Aughawillan during his tenure in Laythrum, again as I recall.

[magpie seanie]

Never heard of that one !

Are you sure about that ?

Positive. I checked the rule and if a player is born in Dublin they may play for thier parents home county. Use link below and check out Rule 33 (c).

http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_internet.pdf

[heffo]

Declan Darcy led Leitrim to their first Connacht title, even though he was born and living in Dublin.
I don't buy the line that he was eligible because his oul' fella was a Leitrim man either. Either the rules of the GAA allow a non-native to play for a county or they don't.

Firstly, I believe it was Leitrim's second Connacht title. Secondly, he was completely eligible under rule. Children of people living in Dublin who were from certain counties (of which Leitrim was one) were/are allowed under rule to play for their parents county.

Never heard of that one !

Are you sure about that ?

It's true alright - Cooke & Brennan from Saggart had Laois ties and togged out under O'Dwyer.

Corcoran from Saggart played for Longford...there's probably a few more I can't think of off the top of my head..

[heffo]

Oh and make no mistake Larry Tompkins did not go to Cork because of work, he went there to play inter-county football.

As I recall, both Tompkins and Fahy were in the Army and requested transfers to Cork to facilitate this con-job.

Children of people living in Dublin who were from certain counties (of which Leitrim was one) were/are allowed under rule to play for their parents county.

Darcy togged out for Aughawillan during his tenure in Laythrum, again as I recall.

Tompkins was working as a carpenter in New York - Fahy was in the Army alright..

[easytiger]

Hiya lads

Just wanted to throw in my own tuppence worth here for two reasons - 1) I think the debate is a valid one and 2) the way it has been argued (apart from some meltdowns) reminds me of the best days of the auld board.

The one thing a journalist craves more than anything else is a readymade narrative - and Micko's life, more than anyone elses, provides not just one story, but various different threads. He can't be blamed for that.

As for roguery - I spent an hour or so in his company once and he was either a genuine rogue or else acting the part with huge glee. All i know was that, without a camera or microphone within a mile of him, he was twice as entertaining as any interview I've ever seen or read of him.

During his first stint with Kildare, he routinely sent them out with the intention of roughing up the Dubs - becaue he felt the Dubs had bullied them before. It was the same tactic he employed in the Sister Consillio match with Kerry in New York. That Kildare team unfortunately started a scrap with the wrong set of brothers i.e. the Barrs and ended up getting a hiding. But any manager who has employed the players that has has through the stints with Kerry and Kildare, clearly pushes the laws of the game right to the edge - physically.

As for the diving etc - the Laois team that everyone says he should have got more out of was based around two twin towers in the centre of the team with Clancy and Garvan, surrounded by immensely talented but smaller players - Conway, McDonald, Munnelly, Higgins, Kelly etc who beat an awful Dublin team but when confronted with real physicality in Armagh, had no answer. If Micko had the hard men to hand he would have used them - but i don't think there's too much disgrace in tryinq to win your frees if you're as small as some of those Laois lads were, and Francie bearing down on you.

I think as a man manager he is/was brilliant, but i don'tknow if those same qualities would translate in the bigger counties these days. Most of the guys playing for contending counties have had the best of physical and psychological training since they were minors or students - I doubt Micko's homespun philosophies would cut much ice with them. However, in counties where there is tradition of losing, Micko seems to be capable of loosening that mental block - whether that is simply because of his name or because of his actual methods is debatable.

Micko's treatment by the media isn't really his problem - I do think he has been given a free pass at times, but no more so than the Boylans/Morgans/O'Mahoneys/Kernans/Hartes etc. And who would want to have their real persona broadcast or written about? None of us are perfect, far from it, and one of the worst flaws that most of us share, is a willingness to believe the best of ourselves, despite the prevailing evidence.

If the media resorts to cliche with Micko, than it truly is their problem rather than his. And consider this -cliches only become cliches because, at the core, there lies a truth.

Besides, anyone who keeps going as fit as he does into his 70's deserves some kind of a pass - though whether that should be a bus pass or a free pass depends on personal opinion.

[screenexile]

Hiya lads

Just wanted to throw in my own tuppence worth here for two reasons - 1) I think the debate is a valid one and 2) the way it has been argued (apart from some meltdowns) reminds me of the best days of the auld board.

The one thing a journalist craves more than anything else is a readymade narrative - and Micko's life, more than anyone elses, provides not just one story, but various different threads. He can't be blamed for that.

As for roguery - I spent an hour or so in his company once and he was either a genuine rogue or else acting the part with huge glee. All i know was that, without a camera or microphone within a mile of him, he was twice as entertaining as any interview I've ever seen or read of him.

During his first stint with Kildare, he routinely sent them out with the intention of roughing up the Dubs - becaue he felt the Dubs had bullied them before. It was the same tactic he employed in the Sister Consillio match with Kerry in New York. That Kildare team unfortunately started a scrap with the wrong set of brothers i.e. the Barrs and ended up getting a hiding. But any manager who has employed the players that has has through the stints with Kerry and Kildare, clearly pushes the laws of the game right to the edge - physically.

As for the diving etc - the Laois team that everyone says he should have got more out of was based around two twin towers in the centre of the team with Clancy and Garvan, surrounded by immensely talented but smaller players - Conway, McDonald, Munnelly, Higgins, Kelly etc who beat an awful Dublin team but when confronted with real physicality in Armagh, had no answer. If Micko had the hard men to hand he would have used them - but i don't think there's too much disgrace in tryinq to win your frees if you're as small as some of those Laois lads were, and Francie bearing down on you.

I think as a man manager he is/was brilliant, but i don'tknow if those same qualities would translate in the bigger counties these days. Most of the guys playing for contending counties have had the best of physical and psychological training since they were minors or students - I doubt Micko's homespun philosophies would cut much ice with them. However, in counties where there is tradition of losing, Micko seems to be capable of loosening that mental block - whether that is simply because of his name or because of his actual methods is debatable.

Micko's treatment by the media isn't really his problem - I do think he has been given a free pass at times, but no more so than the Boylans/Morgans/O'Mahoneys/Kernans/Hartes etc. And who would want to have their real persona broadcast or written about? None of us are perfect, far from it, and one of the worst flaws that most of us share, is a willingness to believe the best of ourselves, despite the prevailing evidence.

If the media resorts to cliche with Micko, than it truly is their problem rather than his. And consider this -cliches only become cliches because, at the core, there lies a truth.

Besides, anyone who keeps going as fit as he does into his 70's deserves some kind of a pass - though whether that should be a bus pass or a free pass depends on personal opinion.

Great post easytiger!

[magpie seanie]

Excellent post 'tiger and great to hear from ya.

[Tyrones own]

  

Name other managers who have been fined for pitch encroachments ?

Name me any other managers that have been as guilty of consistant encroachments,
Who headed you as chief of the petty police anyway, it was merely stated as one of the
few things i don't like about the man, lord knows there are lots of opinions here on him.
Last i checked this is a discussion board