New IFA Premier League

[Feckitt]

I heard that some of the criteria to rank the IFA clubs were attendances at matches.  Is there anywhere you can find out this information?   I have always been interested in real attendances at local soccer matches, but can never find it anywhere. Ever.

[T Fearon]

Well, they wouldn't be hard to count. Portadown's omission from the IFA's Premier League is the lead story and features throughout this week's Portadown Times. An alien visitor could be forgiven for thinking people give a fcuk

[Hoof Hearted]

Well, they wouldn't be hard to count. Portadown's omission from the IFA's Premier League is the lead story and features throughout this week's Portadown Times. An alien visitor could be forgiven for thinking people give a fcuk

well you must for one
you started a thread and continued to argue for 14 pages !!

[Evil Genius]

Well, they wouldn't be hard to count. Portadown's omission from the IFA's Premier League is the lead story and features throughout this week's Portadown Times. An alien visitor could be forgiven for thinking people give a fcuk

You obviously gave sufficient of a "fcuk" to at least browse the paper and report back here on it. Did you actually buy the Portadown Times, or is it a freesheet?  

[Feckitt]

lads lads, settle down now!  I'll repeat the question.  Are the attendance figures used by the IFA available to Joe Public?

[Hurler on the Bitch]

It always was something that confused me... from Premier League to the Scottish third division you are given the attendance... BUT ...Irish League..Nowt.....is it a big secret? Surely it's not hard to keep a count...... I phoned Distillery one Saturday last season to ask what time their match began at?.... to which the guy replied.."What time can you be here at?"

[Evil Genius]

lads lads, settle down now!  I'll repeat the question.  Are the attendance figures used by the IFA available to Joe Public?

Simple answer is "No". I suspect this is because the IFA/Irish League would be embarrassed by it becoming public how much soccer crowds in NI have declined in recent years under their watch, whilst soccer crowds elsewhere have at least stabilised, if not grown.

[Rav67]

Brendan Crossan has a right go at the points system used by the IFA to pick the teams for this new league.  Which apparently the IFA don't even know whether there will be relegation from next season.  What a joke.  Here's the article anyway:



IFA needs to get priorities right – for DC's sake
The Boot Room
By Brendan Crossan
16/05/08

SORRY Donegal Celtic. We've made a terrible mistake. We don't know how it happened. Our mathematics employee hit the wrong button on her calculator. She hasn't quite figured out the minuses and the pluses on the keypad. It's a new state-of-the-art calculator, you see.

Anyway, your points tally should have read, let me see, 643 – and not a measly 543. Frightfully sorry! So, come join us in our snug little 12-team utopia. There's always room for you boys way out west. It wouldn't be the same without you.

If the IFA asked, Donegal Celtic delivered. Whether it was a Northern Ireland Schools FA final, Co Antrim FA final, Junior International training session, or even the senior 'Norn Iron' team, Suffolk Road's gates were always open (I wonder were there any ranking points on offer for big, wide open gates?).

Unless there is a speedy and satisfactory explanation coming from Windsor Avenue, it looks a dead cert that Donegal Celtic FC will be heading to the courts. They threatened to do so a few years ago, crying religious discrimination, and the Irish Football League waved them in from the cold.

Anyone who has followed the fortunes of Donegal Celtic over the years will know that they've had to fight every step of the way to reach football's top tier in the north.

Two years ago, they won a two-legged promotion play-off against Institute to become the first Celtic club since the legendary Belfast Celtic to reach senior football.

It was a tough debut year for them, but this season they reached the Irish Cup semi-finals and finished a commendable 11th place in the Premier Division. They were beginning to find their feet.

But after just two seasons, Donegal Celtic is no longer a senior club. Apparently, they didn't score enough points in the convoluted criteria outlined by the IFA to get into the new 12-team Invitational League.

Last summer the club had accrued 610 points, but when the final rankings were released on Tuesday night they only had 543, and finished in 13th place.

The Irish Football Association needs to explain to DC where the missing points have gone.

The various IFA criteria were broken into six wide-ranging categories: 'Success on the field', 'Finance', 'Personnel', 'Business Planning', 'Attendances' and 'Infrastructure'.

WHEN you strip away all the guff, the only category that really mattered was 'Infrastructure' which, in layman's terms, relates to your facilities.

It didn't matter if, like DC, you had underage teams ranging from U10 to U18, because it wasn't a great point-scorer.

The IFA said that for every youth team you boast, you could claim 10 ranking points. There was one snag, however. You could only claim up to 30 points in total; so there was no point, really, in having any more than three youth teams at your club.

Each of Celtic's youth teams is replete with a UEFA-qualified coach. And coaches mean points. You could pick up five points per UEFA-qualified coach at your club. But get this: the maximum you could claim in this category was 10 points.

So, there's no point, really, in having any more than three youth teams and two UEFA-qualified youth coaches at your club. You start to get the picture?

That's why Donegal Celtic officials insist they've been gerrymandered out of senior football.

When you delve into this turgid waffle, you come to the conclusion that the IFA criteria has nothing, or at least very little, to do with sporting excellence and a lot to do with having a nice, all-seated stand and big, bright floodlights.

Indeed, you could claim up to 60 points in the floodlight category, which makes floodlights more valuable to the IFA than coaching hundreds of kids every night of the week.

The 'Success on the field' category was another piece of creative genius in giving clubs like Donegal Celtic false hope.

For instance, Paddy Kelly's side reached the semi-finals of the Irish Cup this season and received a grand total of 20 points.

Bangor, who haven't played senior football in 12 years, finished third in the intermediate-status First Division.

Where Bangor scored highly was in the gold-plated 'Infrastructure' category where a new covered stand and all the trappings – first aid room, toilet facilities, dressing rooms, etc., – can fetch a whopping 450 points.

In short, the IFA criteria was clearly weighted heavily in favour

of the old elite, those long-serving Irish League members, who look down their noses at 'nouveau riche' clubs.

Had the IFA agreed to downsize its executive earlier this season, then £8m of government funding would have been released to clubs such as Donegal Celtic to make infrastructural improvements.

DC has £800,000 sitting idle in the NI Sports Council's bank to build a new stand, but it couldn't be released because IFA members couldn't agree among themselves. They dithered, and dithered some more, and the money was withheld. Because of IFA incompetence, clubs like Donegal Celtic suffered.

The north is a pretty unique place. It is no ordinary society. In fact, it remains very much a divided one. Church leaders, politicians, community groups and sporting organisations have played invaluable roles in making this society a better one.

For instance, the GAA was often criticised by unionism and liberal nationalism for not making a civic contribution to society.

Moral pressure was brought to bear on the Association, which resulted in Rule 21 and Rule 42 being deleted and changed, respectively. The GAA is a better organisation for those changes today.

Therefore, it seems reasonable to expect that the Irish Football Association should play a more innovative civic role and consider its moral obligations to the 100,000 people that live in west Belfast, and not reduce football to some abstract criteria.

Senior football is the life-blood of Donegal Celtic Football Club – and its members deserve better.

[Minder]

"Moral obligation to the 100,00 people that live in West Belfast"...........I didnt know DC had such a following.

[ziggysego]

lads lads, settle down now!  I'll repeat the question.  Are the attendance figures used by the IFA available to Joe Public?

Under the Freedom of Information Act, they should be.

[SammyG]

lads lads, settle down now!  I'll repeat the question.  Are the attendance figures used by the IFA available to Joe Public?

Under the Freedom of Information Act, they should be.

The IFA aren't a public body (and the clubs certainly aren't) so I doubt an FoI request would work.

[ziggysego]

Prehaps not, but I shouldn't think it should be too difficult to get the numbers.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I do not follow local football that closely, so if I'm wrong be sure and hollar.

However, isn't the idea of this to get the 12 biggest local Clubs in a league together - by biggest I mean ground / resources / potential support, and the criteria used to get the top 12, reflecting that?

If that is the case, why are they worrying about Portadown being late - they would be the biggest outside Belfast (I think) and more than match the set criteria. If they are being that choosey, why don't they just overlook Poradown's faux pas? Is it the threat of legal action?  

[Doogie Browser]

lads lads, settle down now!  I'll repeat the question.  Are the attendance figures used by the IFA available to Joe Public?

At a guess from TV pictures, press reports and attendance at some down the years
Linfield - 3,000
Glens & Ports- 2-3,000
Ballymena - 1500 - 2000
Coleraine - 1200 - 1500
Newry & Distillery circa 1000
Cliftonville 2-3,000
DC - 1000 - 1500
Armagh & Larne - 250 - 300 maximum
Dunganon & Glenavon 750 - 1000

[SammyG]

I do not follow local football that closely, so if I'm wrong be sure and hollar.

However, isn't the idea of this to get the 12 biggest local Clubs in a league together - by biggest I mean ground / resources / potential support, and the criteria used to get the top 12, reflecting that?

If that is the case, why are they worrying about Portadown being late - they would be the biggest outside Belfast (I think) and more than match the set criteria. If they are being that choosey, why don't they just overlook Poradown's faux pas? Is it the threat of legal action?  

Portadown would have passed the criteria (I think somebody said they would have been 4th or 5th) but they weren't even considered, due to not getting their application on time. If the IFA backtracked and let them in then the club in 12th (currently Institute) would have been excluded, even though they'd done everything correctly. So they probably would have taking the IFA to court and won, which would have left a hell of a mess.