Ciaran McDonald not named in Mayo panel

[prewtna]

Yet when he gets the Mayo job he takes the knife to the team who were no. 2 in 06.

                                While CMac is a joy to behold he did slow up the game and made Mayo easier to defend against,

you'd be right there. at club level he runs the show for crossmolina usually. he does the same for them as he did for mayo in that he demands the ball to be handed to him out round midfield then he'll ping a 40 yard pass into the fullforward line. that has worked very well for cross for years because they have a bloody good team and when your that bit better then the players round you, you can afford to do this. however when it comes to intercounty you cant always get away with this cos people are fitter, faster and stronger. while the 40 yard bullet of a daisycutting pass looks class, to achieve this you have to take a couple of seconds to line it up and that inherently takes the pace out of the entire move. many believe and i agree that he would have been better placed in the full forward line on the edge of the square.

as a finisher in his early years he was lethal (still is for crossmolina). id say he would have racked up a serious haul of goals for himself but that means taking responsibility.

i dont want to criticise him, but it seems to me he didnt want the responsibility of being scorer-in-chief like conor mortimer is doing now. thats a stressful role to have. i dont think he wanted that and thats fair enough too. but i think he could have scored much more heavily over the years. we can point to the incredible moments in the dublin game to highlight the mans genius - the sideline kick over the bar from the cusack side and the winning point into the silent hill but had neither of them gone over nobody would have batted an eyelid. they were outragous (in a good way) and ambitious in the extreme. the gambles paid off and we all got very drunk that night celebrating the moment and the man but i still feel his role should and could have been so much different and that his natural ability with the ball would have been better placed closer to the goals where he himself could inflict pain on the unfortunate fullback who would have to mark him. he is a strong man and well able to win his own when push comes to shove.

its always ifs buts and maybes when it comes to mayo football.

[the Deel Rover]

This notion of slowing up the play amuses me it seems like someone on tv must have said it once about mc and then everone decided yes thats right he slows up the play too much. i didn't hear many people complaining in 2004 when we got to the Ai , what is a centehalf forwards role get his hand on the ball and let in quality ball to the cornerforwards which would you prefer an accurate pass comig in to you which you actually have a chance of winning or a long ball humped in to the forward line . Also this notion that Ciaran is a full forward is nonsense as he played all his footballing carreer with Cross at number 11 and having watched him play that is the only position for him as i said before he neds to get his hands on the ball .

                             
i dont want to criticise him, but it seems to me he didnt want the responsibility of being scorer-in-chief like conor mortimer is doing now. thats a stressful role to have. i dont think he wanted that and thats fair enough too. but i think he could have scored much more heavily over the years.

Ok i remember looking at the match programme before the All Ireland in 2006 and after Conor Mort who is the freetaker  the next top scorer for mayo was mc with an average of 3 points per game played so in fairness i don't think it can be said that he didn't take responsibilty  its funny when he 1 played for mayo he was accused of shooting on sight and not passing and been greedy so it just shows you can't win and please the public

[Tatler Jack]

and well able to win his own when push comes to shove

He would have got plenty of both pushing and shoving from Kerry.

Think O'Mahoney should have him involved and make a serious assault on AI this year - none of this playing down expectations stuff. Looking at the Mayo panel it is as good as any in the country and it is up to O'Mahoney to get the best out of the players he has. The real success for Kerry in recent years is how much they have got out of ordinary enough players like, Aidan O'Mahoney, Tommy Griffin, Seamus O'Sullivan, Galvin, Scanlon (last year). Even Mark and Tomás O' Sé were nothing exceptional as minors yet Kerry have this ability to get the most out of players and to develop players both in terms of skill and confidence. Mayo have as strong a pool of footballers and club football there is at least as good as it is in Kerry. No reason they should not be contenders this year unless they lack ambition and balls.

[prewtna]

ya fair enough mort didnt perform in all-irelands for mayo but to be honest not many mayo men have! but without him scoring as heavily as he did in all the matches before the ill-fated finals mayo wouldnt have been there at all.

well i think in fairness the way mayo are playing this year, they are in general leaving andy moran and conor mort in the full forward line and letting the ball into them. (not always i know but quite a bit) it seems to be working fairly well in that the lads out the field seem capable enough of getting it in even though we havent really been winning midfield battles. so ya i think even with the limited supply out the field they do seem to manage decent enough ball into the lads inside. if Big Mac was in there instead of andy moran lord only knows how much he would score.

ya mayo and galway were brutal last year in the connacht champo. i only saw it on tv cos i was living away but it looked shocking. i think your right about galway turning a corner. if they played in the morning n the champo id say galway would win.

as for the derry game. it was a bad day all round. sitting in the rain in celtic park there was a general feeling that we could have won the game with all the possession we had before derry kicked on in the last 15 minutes, but we wouldnt have deserved it at all and derry did.

there was an uneasy mix of old and young in that championship panel. uneasy because jonno had to let the old guard have one last lash at it clearly the likes of brady and i hate to say it nallen aswell wasnt up to it anymore.  i think he is putting his faith in the young lads. it must be rembered a lot of them lads have U-21 medals so they are not bad players.

what role would james nallen have now in the panel? level headed campaigner to settle young nerves? i dont know him but id say he would be invaluable like that but not as a core player any more.

mayo wont win an all-ireland this year but they seem to be shaping into a decent enough team. id be happy enough with how things are going to be honest.

[spectator]

Eh? What s that about? Who s slagging anybody off. All I said was he spent most of last year with lads at 3 and 6 [ kinda important positions you might accept] that are no longer in the panel. That constitutes a waste of time in anybodys language. Was he right to try them? Yes. Were they successful? Not really but they had something[ at least 1 did] to offer going forward. Where are they now? Dont know and not sure the reasons why they re gone. But he s the manager and if he thought they had something to offer then why are they missing. Course he was right to try them.

Fair enough re- your clarification there, moysider.

I see now that you weren't criticising Johnno - or the Ballagh lads you solely named previously -  & largely endorse Johnno's approach.

But say a lad is given a run & is subsequently uninvolved, you seem to be saying that that then reflects badly on the manager?


I think it's important for ye over there to give Johnno time to build a team, as;

(1) he's probably one of the few managers capable of getting ye over the line some September Sunday

(2) Given some of the criticism that ended his first stint in charge [incorrect team selection etc] it'd be a backwards step to undermine his efforts at this stage, whatever about the soreness at the dropping some of some older guys who's best days may possibly have been behind them anyway.

Given Johnno's track record, judgement should be reserved at least until the end of the season imo. To be questioning his ability to build a new team is a bit worrying though - is the general creeping criticism of Johnno over there politically motivated do you think, or is it really purely a footballing thing?

Whatever, a lot of countys would give their right arm to have a manager of his ability at the helm.

[INDIANA]

i think a lot of people are being a bit unfair on o mahoney. it'll take him 3-5 years to get mayo into a position to challenge kerry, at least 3 years. they have like most others no chance this year and i'd say mc donald knows it. he probably has 2 years left at that level but i'd say he doubts mayo's ability to get up there again. he's not going to come back for a connacht title he has enough of those. Mayo are in a similar boat to the likes of dublin,tyrone,armagh and cork- good enough to win a provincial title but not good enough to win the all-ireland.

[Barney]

It is fair to say that JOM needs time to turn the whole Mayo thing around. We have an awful lot of very young promising players, and those carrying the scars of the past.

He started off on the wrong foot though in last years championship and to date has failed to show that any real questions that have been posed to have have been resolved by him.

BUT championship is where it is at and championship is where he should be judged.

Have no doubt but that if Mayo lose to Sligo he is a dead man walking after shipping two ten point defeats last year. It is as blunt as that. Maughan and Moran walked the plank for a lot less. I'm not saying any of these decisions was right or wrong - its just the reality of the situation.

However the height of our ambition for this year has to be a Connacht title. Its no big ask. Galway are good but are due in Castlebar. We may compete in an All Ireland Quarter Final if we were to get there and get a good draw, but then again our backs look like they could be torn apart in the wide spaces.

There is going to be a lot of frustration before we can consider ourselves contenders for Sam again.

[mannix]

Sligo were relegated from division 3, please read between the lines on Mayo having to play sligo and the expected result.
Plain english. Sligo will be beaten by Mayo, not because Mayo are great but because sligo are very poor at the minite.
Mayo should have macdonald on the panel, anything else is stupid unless he is unfit.

[INDIANA]

ever consider that maybe he doesn't want to be there? does anyone know for certain that o mahoney doesn't want him there? i think like i said above that he knows in the short term there is no hope of sam. kerry are likely to dominate similar to the late 70's and early 80's for the forseeable future. have to say i'm surprised nallen is there- very good in his day but he'd be cleaned out in croker now.

[Lar Naparka]

Maughan and Moran walked the plank for a lot less. I'm not saying any of these decisions was right or wrong - its just the reality of the situation.

There's another reality there also, Barney, and I imagine it is clear to O'Mahony as well.
Mayo people are usually as clear-headed and logical as can be found anywhere else.
However, when it comes to football, logic goes out the window. It's a case of, "Sam or damn," every championship; would winning a Connacht final satisfy any of us in any year?
It puts huge pressure on a manager to deliver and the same goes for the players. Nothing short of Sam will satisfy any of us, me included.
That's unfair but that's the way it is.
Now, supposing Mayo does unexpectedly well this year but can't last the entire course. Worse still, we get to the final and lose narrowly. Can anyone see O'Mahony getting due praise for his achievements?
Most of us, unfairly maybe, will blame Mac's omission as the cause of failure and I wouldn't put much money on Johnno's chances of re-election any time soon.
That too is the reality of the situation; the stakes are high for the Blueshirt if he doesn't fill the no.30 spot on his panel the right way!

[IolarCoisCuain]

Now, supposing Mayo does unexpectedly well this year but can't last the entire course. Worse still, we get to the final and lose narrowly. Can anyone see O'Mahony getting due praise for his achievements?
Most of us, unfairly maybe, will blame Mac's omission as the cause of failure and I wouldn't put much money on Johnno's chances of re-election any time soon.

Ah Jaysus Lar, that's a whole lot of supposing, don't you think? It's only April yet. There are a few games to be played yet, you know. 

[Lar Naparka]

I know what you mean alright, Iolar, and it is a lot of supposing. But I'm not running off to blame Johnno here and now. I hope it never comes to pass and maybe, just maybe, if the Blonde One does make a re-appearance somewhere along the line it will be all for the best.
But Mayo folk are stone mad about football and Johnno may feel a backlash if we don't go the whole way. That's not fair but you know the score with Mayo fans.
I honestly don't think we can win this year, with or without Mac- the side is developing fine but is not good enough yet.
Probably Mac has his own reasons for not playing but who will be blamed if poor Johnno doesn't deliver this year? 

[rosnarun]

incredible amount of BS being written here " he needs time to turn things around" FFS the guy inheritrd an AIF losing team not kilkenny . " 3 to 5 years to get it write" " what manager is allowed 5 years of excuses.
if there was even any sign of a coherent plan he would be awarded patience but going back to AOM at FF still no full back or ebven a full back line .
id bet against any one getting all 3 names correct for the connacht final. mine would be kelly keaney and o'malley but there are still about 15 variations it could be . he obviously playing it by ear but hopefully with his place of work on holiday he may be able to put more thought into it now

[INDIANA]

he's inherited a team annilaiated in two all-ireland finals, with a number of promisng u21's who need time to mature. i 'd say he needs 3 years. Mayo fans basically want sam or nothing else- they don't have the players to win an all-ireland, o mahoney can't play for them. you can be the best manager in the world, but if you don;t have the players you're screwed. they seem to have a lot of players around the same standard.

[Zulu]

Exactly Indiana, Mayo lads on this forum were basically saying JOM was the only man that could deliver Sam and if the CB could get him back he would deliver. MM got a fair deal of criticism during his short spell despite getting an ageing and fairly average squad to the AI. Now JOM is begining to get the same and some Mayo lads here are persisting with the argument that you have players the equal of any other county. Well since Kerry are the bench mark and to win the AI you'll probably have to beat them let's compare Kerry and Mayo in some of the crucial positions.

Full Back: Mark O'Se V any likely Mayo FB - Winner Mark O'Se

Centre Back: Adian O'Mahoney V any likely Mayo CB - Winner A. O'Mahoney

Mid Field: Darragh O'Se V R. McGarrity - Winner D. O'Se

Centre Forward: D. O'Sullivan V A. Dillion - Winner debateable IMO but O'Sullivan would shade it for me

Full Forward: K. Donaghy V AOM - Winner Donaghy, though I think AOM is a decent league player

Scorer in chief: Gooch V C. Mort - Winner Gooch

Bench: Kerry V Mayo - Winner Kerry (by a country mile)

If JOM can get this Mayo team to beat this Kerry team in a do or die championship match he is a footballing genius. In addition some of you are using his inability to solve the FB/CB problem as a stick to beat him with, yet I haven't seen any of you come up with a concensus player for either posistion. If they are not there then they are not there and no coach can produce what's not there. Hound him out if you want lads but you'll only be doing the same with the guy who replaces him a year or two later. You have a Mayo man with a proven track record give him time to get the best out of what's available to him and get yer heads out of yer asses because you're at least 2-3 years away from winning Sam, unfortunately.