Are referees ruining our games?

[Main Street]

Naw was by Henry i think a free in was given but no card . Was fairly late in the game

Sorry, but that was the last legal looking shoulder challenge by Dublin.
Late in the game there was a shoulder charge clearly into the back of Dessie Mone in full flight causing him to fall over, stonewall free in, Freeman pointed.

It was bad defending, because Keaney was also there to offer assistance and they could have dealt with it better.

[OakLeaf]

Just wondering lads has there been a rule-change for the two bounces with one hand. In Castlebar yesterday, a Mayo man got blown for it, and later on a Galway man got the same decision gone against him. I thought afterwards that maybe there was a change in the rulebook. As did all those around me.

No rule change. I didn't see the incident but if you take posession of the ball and bounce it and then bounce it again without ctahing it, it's still two bounces. If you don't take posession you can bounce it as many times as you want. What happened exactly?

[OakLeaf]

I'd like to see the tackle defined clearly . What does going for the ball mean and what is a tackle against the man. What is a fair shoulder? Their was a great shoulder in the Dublin V Monaghan game which was given the other way because the Monaghan lad fell over. When 2 or more players surround a player what rules apply here?  Same with a player trying to pick the ball off the ground while on the ground them self .

The whole contact area is totally grey.

Its not really if you read the rule book. You can only tackle by flicking at the ball with an open hand. If you leave your hand in there then its a free. Now not all referees blow it quick enough but they should. If you tackle from behind you must contact the ball. If you don't it's a free. As many players as you want can surround a player provided none of them illegally tackle that player. There is no such thing as a two-man tackle (as you'll hear quite a bit). If a player is down to pick up the ball he cannot be contacted at all. A fair shoulder is square on when two players are square to each other.

The biggest problem for referees face is the fact that the vast majority of players, managers and spectators don't know many of the more complex rules.

[pintsofguinness]

The referees are pure shite! Plain and simple.

[ExiledGael]

Our rulebook and attitude to referees is certainly weakeneing our games. Too easy to point finger at refs.
How many on here would consider refereeing?
As has been said here many times you'd have to be mad to want to referee.
If they were respected/protected a lot more then it would be more attractive to men coming to the end of their playing career. Our rules need to be tightened up and clearly defined, anything to help in the impossible job.

The Fermanagh game seen some unbelievable decisions, sliding tackles and at least four occasions wher a man caught clean ball at midfield, was tossed to the ground and lost possession as he landed, by a man who never even tried a high catch in the first place. So frustrating to watch exceptional play punished.
Another thing unpunished is players cowardly going in with the boot when the braver man goes down to pick up. Should be a free every time for laying the boot or knee into a man going down for a pick up.

[armaghniac]

Refereeing is not easy and the attitude often is that the other crowd should be penalised at every turn while we do no wrong. It is inevitable that the ref will miss some things or be taken in by a dive from time to time. However different refs seem to have different systematic policies, e.g. one will always penalise over carrying, another will only pull up blatant cases etc. These different systematic approaches are inconsistent and it is largely this inconsistency that leads to concern over refereeing.

[orangeman]

Refereeing is a tough job alright but some of them don'r help themselves - good referees tend to go through the game unnoticed but bad ones want to hug the limelight and get involved in everything that goes on.

[ExiledGael]

Criticism is fine, but we've a problem here that's affecting our games badly and criticism won't solve it.
We need to look at the reasons behind bad refereeing displays.

[orangeman]

I don't buy into the attitude that because refereeing is a tough job that they should be immune from criticism. There are several intercounty referees out there that simply aren't up to the job. 

Several ? More than that I'd say .

[orangeman]

Criticism is fine, but we've a problem here that's affecting our games badly and criticism won't solve it.
We need to look at the reasons behind bad refereeing displays.

Well for the reasons behind the poor displays i can only comment on the last few matches that i've been at:

Armagh V Monaghan (Bannon) - ref too old to keep up with play so he takes the easy option of giving handy frees when any contact between players occurs.
Armagh V Dublin (Fahy) - ref too stupid to know where Armagh is.
Armagh V Meath (guy from Sligo, forget his name) - ref lacking all common sense and seemingly obsessed with nit picking at every little thing in the game, holding the match up constantly so that he could run up and down the field to chat to his umpires or dish out ticks and 13 yellow cards in a match that wasn't in any way dirty or fractious.

Martin Duffy - the boy who got Billy Morgan 6 months at last years AI final ?

[Rav67]

Just wondering lads has there been a rule-change for the two bounces with one hand. In Castlebar yesterday, a Mayo man got blown for it, and later on a Galway man got the same decision gone against him. I thought afterwards that maybe there was a change in the rulebook. As did all those around me.

The referee in the Derry Dublin QF last year pulled up Collie Devlin for this when Derry were in a very good position.  Dublin went down scored a point.  I can't remember who was refereeing that day but he was shit.  Gave Dublin everything first half and then when they were beginning to pull out of sight, awarded Derry a few handy decisions and we got back within 3 points.

[David McKeown]

Criticism is fine, but we've a problem here that's affecting our games badly and criticism won't solve it.
We need to look at the reasons behind bad refereeing displays.

Armagh V Meath (guy from Sligo, forget his name) - ref lacking all common sense and seemingly obsessed with nit picking at every little thing in the game, holding the match up constantly so that he could run up and down the field to chat to his umpires or dish out ticks and 13 yellow cards in a match that wasn't in any way dirty or fractious.

I disagree about the game not being dirty but do agree he was a poor ref.  There were from where I stood three clear striking offences all of which received a yellow which usually annoys me no end but as he was consistent didnt annoy me quite as much.  What did annoy me was his inconsistencies.  For example in the first half he ordered two Armagh men out of the exclusion zone whilst a goal kick was being taken, which is fair enough, in the second half he seemed to forget the rule which made he look not only pernicerty but as my brother put it like an inconsistent fool.

Worse refering performances I have seen was in a club game about two years ago when  the ref sent off a player for what he called deliberate and persistent square ball and booked a man for lifting it off the ground.

[Mike Sheehy]

I think Uladh hits the nail on the head. Over the last five years or so there seems to have been a steadily increasing intolerance of physicality in the game. This particularly manifests itself in situations when you have a back and a forward running for a ball, a lot of the time any force used by the back at all will result in a handy free for the forward. Someone somewhere along the line must have decided to give the benefit of the doubt to the forward in these situations, not a bad idea in principle but its now gotten to the stage that in any match I go to there at least 5-6 soft scorable frees, given as a result of this 'benefit of the doubt to the forward' attitude when two players come together. For me watching Armagh this is my main frustration with referees as we seem to have had a couple big, powerful defenders for the last few years who are continually penalised for using their strength.

This may be going off on a tangent but I genuinely believe that Pat Spillane has a lot to answer for this. After a couple of years of Armagh/Tyrone beating his beloved Kerry he decided that it wasn't because we were better football teams, but rather because we cheated and bullied our way to the top. So he began spewing his propaganda from the Sunday game studio, the Sunday World and from anywhere else who would have him and, hey presto, 5 years later the terms blanket defence and puke football are synonymous with Armagh and Tyrone.

Lets get it straight, the success of Armagh and Tyrone was based on a powerful, physical defensive line but there is nothing wrong with that! But Spillane, and others who bought his shite, have ostracised the art of defending while eulogising the virtues of the silky corner forward. He's painted defenders as big, grizzly cheats that go out to ruin our game and stop the real stars, the corner forwards, from playing. This has in a large part led to the current climate where most matches are marred with handy frees with do nothing but frustrate defenders and supporters alike.

Now this isn't paranoia at all. Spillane is, and he knows it, one of the most powerful voices in the GAA. He says stuff and everyone, down south anyway, foolishly listen. Over the years he continually complained about and clichéd Ulster football to the extent that I can guarantee you nearly every Ulster championship match preview in any of the national newspapers will be riddled with clichés such as blanket defense, dour battle, defensively minded etc.,etc. For some reason in this country we take the word of sports commentators as gold - look at Eamonn Dunphy, he has played a massive role in getting the last two Irish managers sacked and single handedly prevented Terry Venables from getting the job. Spillane is the Dunphy of the GAA.

Nordie paranoia alert ! Nordie paranoia alert !

[Hound]

Over the last five years or so there seems to have been a steadily increasing intolerance of physicality in the game.

Exacerbated by the ever-growing tendency for players to throw themselves to the ground when they feel contact...

[Louth Exile]

Criticism is fine, but we've a problem here that's affecting our games badly and criticism won't solve it.
We need to look at the reasons behind bad refereeing displays.

Armagh V Meath (guy from Sligo, forget his name) - ref lacking all common sense and seemingly obsessed with nit picking at every little thing in the game, holding the match up constantly so that he could run up and down the field to chat to his umpires or dish out ticks and 13 yellow cards in a match that wasn't in any way dirty or fractious.

I disagree about the game not being dirty but do agree he was a poor ref.  There were from where I stood three clear striking offences all of which received a yellow which usually annoys me no end but as he was consistent didnt annoy me quite as much.  What did annoy me was his inconsistencies.  For example in the first half he ordered two Armagh men out of the exclusion zone whilst a goal kick was being taken, which is fair enough, in the second half he seemed to forget the rule which made he look not only pernicerty but as my brother put it like an inconsistent fool.

Worse refering performances I have seen was in a club game about two years ago when  the ref sent off a player for what he called deliberate and persistent square ball and booked a man for lifting it off the ground.

That is so bad that its funny 

Just on the striking.... It used to be a striaght sending off, this doesn't happen anymore. Some refs are definitely way too liberal with the yellow cards and the ticks. But, it is also the case that very few give straight red cards nowadays. How often has a player on a yellow card commited a red card offence and instead of the ref giving the straight red, they give a second yellow and then the red!!