GAA must 'reach out' to unionism

[armaghniac]

If a "George Washington" team turned up at the Mlik cup, would anyone bat an eyelid. Indeed if you formed a "George Washington" american football team would OWC be going on about it being named after a terrorist? 

[BallyhaiseMan]

when i said i dont know if "you" can seperate them as GAA in comparison to IRA members, it wasnt a direct question or statement to Sammy

it was meant as  a figure of speech instead of  passage such as "is it possible" , just to clear that up.

Lynchbhoy

Were Gerard and Martin Harte not shot dead while attempting to shoot a UDR man?
And did not the blowing up of a bus of British Soldiers occur within the territory of their brothers Brigade organisation?
So while anyones death is tragic,They werent exactly innocent parties
Its not exactly encouraging for any unionist who might want to join a local club to see a tournament named after such prominent members of the Tyrone IRA.
Surely you can see that.

Surely you can see that they don't want to join - all they want to do is beat us and insult us and wind us up, which they have always done - so forget about them.

You're obviously a bit more clued in than me OM, i had to use google entirely just to look in anyway knowledgeable on this thread 
Its just an interesting topic for us Free Staters,
Unionists and the GAA, so you have to expect us on here talking sh*t about stuff we  know little about 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Maybe Sammy G has been in the 'fatherland' too long; from the Belfast Telegraph (today, April 17th), and about Gaelic Games:

...Even up until a decade ago GAA coverage was largely confined to areas of the media where writers and broadcasters were preaching to the converted.

Today, in a pluralist society in which the GAA has given a lead on several fronts - the opening of Croke Park to other sports, a dynamic anti-drugs campaign, a concerted drive to provide the best facilities for members spanning all ages, creeds and classes - the Association, for all its human imperfections, enjoys a level of overall credibility that is the envy of many other organisations, sporting and otherwise.

And that's certainly something to write home about.

[Zapatista]

Do you think Unionists would mind getting treated in James Connolly Memorial Hospital? Or taking a train to Sean Heuston Station?

[lynchbhoy]

when i said i dont know if "you" can seperate them as GAA in comparison to IRA members, it wasnt a direct question or statement to Sammy

it was meant as  a figure of speech instead of  passage such as "is it possible" , just to clear that up.

Lynchbhoy

Were Gerard and Martin Harte not shot dead while attempting to shoot a UDR man?
And did not the blowing up of a bus of British Soldiers occur within the territory of their brothers Brigade organisation?
So while anyones death is tragic,They werent exactly innocent parties
Its not exactly encouraging for any unionist who might want to join a local club to see a tournament named after such prominent members of the Tyrone IRA.
Surely you can see that.

I know what you are saying, but I am answering the question/allegation that they were mass murderers
now if attempting to shoot a udr man qualifies as that - well the law has changed as I knew it (though in NI that allegation would prob have been enough to send them down for life - not joking either )

also DID they carry out the bombing of the bus that was blown up ?
It was their unit - interestingly enough your info doesnt say they did it, and lets face it, if they were even remotely proven to be in any way actually involved, you would see their names up in big flashing lights - as is the unionist/loyalist /brit gov influenced media way of highlighting any nationalists 'indescretions' - while sweeping any of their own under the carpet.

you my friend, have proven how easy it is to become a victim of this media- and taken in BY THEIR WORDING.

I am not saying the two lads were in any way innocents - but the wording has you convinced they are 'mass murderers' as sammy would say, leading you to interpret more than the two brothers were found actually guilty of.
Can you not see the huge problems there, and this wording is the tool of the unionist/loyalists against convergence into NI, and what enables them to put up their own barriers against joining the GAA.

I had no problem getting treatment in the royal victoria hospital, or have any problem with institutions of a 'british' nature. As a GAA man (even as a nationalist, republican , Catholic) I welcome any person into my culture and sports (as our club have done with dutch and aussies in recent years) - and would do for unionist, loyalist, brit army, ruc guy etc etc (only problem I have with the ruc/psni is that they are a crap unimpartial police force and badly need a 're-alignment' at the top of the tree).

As history has proven, time heals everything and historical heroes are usually the underdogs - from Ghandi to Guevara, from Mandela to Sands, and these plus folk like men of 1916, were all once 'rebels' or 'terrorists' but are now venerated and 'loved'.
Teh unionists negative mindset will disappear in time. We will all get along at that stage and GAA will become stronger (as long as we are not fcuked up from within by the greedy few banging on about money).

the 'war' is over, and from my recollection, the GAA , even in Ulster, were never fighting it.
Unionists/loyalists just dont want to join in , as this will be another step in the wrong direction towards unification and away from the empire.
Their loss.

[orangeman]

Innocent GAA members were harassed, beatenup and indeed murdered simply because they belonged to GAA club - this thread demeans their efforts and in many cases their memory - I'm turning this thread around now -

The Unionist / protestant community should apologise for their behaviour to us - they make amends for their wrong doings of the past amd pay us compensation before we ever consider letting them near our gounds !

[winsamsoon]

One fatal error that a lot of the posters on here seem to be making is the fact that our history is in fact really really important to us. A lot of people here seem to be suggesting that we be selective in what part of our history that we keep. But on the same post it is ok to bring up that someone killed someone else. We all know about the history of Ireland and the causes that have given rise to the conflict.  Our history has shaped the way we are today and i for one am proud to call myself Irish and proud of the majority of patriots and great Irishmen that have came and gone ( This includes protestants by the way)  My history is crucial to my life as it has influenced my beliefs and formed my culture. I was never taught to hate anyone and through the ranks of the GAA i never remember any references being made to Unionism or Protestants in any bad way. As a GAA member i can seriously say that the GAA as an organisation did try it's best to remain impartial when it came to politics. There is no hidden agendas behind the names of GAA clubs or ground they are simply to rememeber the members of the organisation that where influential in Irelands society whether  nationalist or republican. Naming a tournament after two lads in loughmacrory was not done because they were republicans it was done because they were members of that particular club and they gave a lot to that club in their time. You see the GAA is such a big organisation they can do this. The GAA can remain a separate identity to all that is going on round it and did successfully do this. With the exeption of the removal of rule 21 and 42 when the GAA in my opinion got involved in politics. These were major steps for the GAA which cause a lot of division within the organisation , but the members accepted the democracy and moved on. A lot of people would still have issues with it but again it is in no related to hatred or bigotry. People involved in Gaelic games are very close to their culture. This is the same culture for all in the island of Ireland. I would say that Unionsm would probably reject the formation of the GAA as part of their culture so how then can we possible change this mindset and appease a section of our society that will not even recognise the proper reasons behind the formation of our sport. Unionism and nationalsim share cultures. The formation of the B specials was part of my culture just as much as any unionist. We cannot be selective in what we choose. What has happened has happened and still has a bearing on society We should never forget this even though it has happened. But we must get out of the mindset that everything anyone does is to get one up on the the other side. It is here that the problems lies and wholesale changes will never make a hairs difference.

[Maguire01]

Haven't been keeping up to date with this, but a few points...

I got tired picking quotes out at that point and that's just from one thread.

Interesting that not one of those quotes mention hating the GAA, in any way. Would it not have been easier to just say, no and save yourself the cutting and pasting?

Sammy, i have to say, your posts are generally fairly measured and balanced, even though a lot of people on here won't agree with you, but from reading the quotes picked out, your response is well off the mark - there is clearly hatred demonstrated, the word 'hate' doesn't have to be used to illustrate hatred.

There is hatred (for want of a better word) of many of the things that the GAA does, naming kids tournaments after mass murderers for example but that doesn't translate into hatred of the GAA. I'm sure there are lads that don't like the GAA but it would certainly be a lot less than the hatred on here (in this thread alone) for a million of your fellow Irishmen.

Post proof of this or retract it.

The GAA organise the Gerard and Martin Harte cup for Under 12's

so the GAA organise it do they
ohhhh kkkkkkayyy

and pray tell what aspects of mass murder did Gerard and Martin Harte purportrate ?

I must admit, I did not realise there was an All Ireland competition for u12's

To play devil's advocate here, many looking in from outside would say 'yes', the GAA do organise it.  It may be through a club, but does it have to be arranged exclusively from Croke Park to be 'organised by the GAA'?
Also, where was the mention of an AI competition for u12s?  That comment just undermines your defense and looks like toys out of the pram stuff.

I'm not suggesting that such clubs abandon such tributes to their GAA heroes, that's for them to decide.  At the same time, i can understand why it's any easy point for criticism - a soccer competition named after some loyalist would be a target for abuse on here, whether it was arranged by the IFA or a club within it's ranks.

I have a genuine question for Sammy and any other unionists on here: Is the issue with the naming of GAA venues/competitions after republicans limited to those involved in activities over the last 30/40 years?  i.e. is there a problem with the likes of Casement Park, or just with examples like the U12 competition mentioned above, related to republicans active during 'the troubles'?

Maybe Sammy G has been in the 'fatherland' too long; from the Belfast Telegraph (today, April 17th), and about Gaelic Games:

...Even up until a decade ago GAA coverage was largely confined to areas of the media where writers and broadcasters were preaching to the converted.

Today, in a pluralist society in which the GAA has given a lead on several fronts - the opening of Croke Park to other sports, a dynamic anti-drugs campaign, a concerted drive to provide the best facilities for members spanning all ages, creeds and classes - the Association, for all its human imperfections, enjoys a level of overall credibility that is the envy of many other organisations, sporting and otherwise.

And that's certainly something to write home about.

Yet we still don't see GAA anywhere near the back pages of the BT!

Innocent GAA members were harassed, beatenup and indeed murdered simply because they belonged to GAA club - this thread demeans their efforts and in many cases their memory - I'm turning this thread around now -

The Unionist / protestant community should apologise for their behaviour to us - they make amends for their wrong doings of the past amd pay us compensation before we ever consider letting them near our gounds !

That's a bit pointless to be fair.  Any of those who murdered or harassed GAA members are hardly the people that are ever going to be interested in joining the GAA and are therefore unlikely to be those the GAA 'reach out' to.  Innocent unionists have nothing to apologise for.

[lynchbhoy]

To play devil's advocate here, many looking in from outside would say 'yes', the GAA do organise it.  It may be through a club, but does it have to be arranged exclusively from Croke Park to be 'organised by the GAA'?
Also, where was the mention of an AI competition for u12s?  That comment just undermines your defense and looks like toys out of the pram stuff.
[/quote]
completely disagree.
Local county boards organise league/championships within their own boundaries - and yes clubs themselves organise their own tournaments etc
the GAA as it was put - do NOT organise anything other than their games fixtures committees etc oversee the national leagues and all Ireland Championship organisations.
The GAA, like most other institutions in this country, can have sub divisions (county boards in this case, and clubs going a further level down) who do NOT communicate what is happening at their own levels - so you could say the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.
This is common in fragmented, franchised or geographically dispersed companies let alone sports organisations.
So your point about it 'could' be GAA organised is just wrong. it aint.

as for the toys from pram about the GAA not organising an u12 competition, maybe so - its all down to your own persepctive, I merely was highlighting the lack of knowledge/understanding (based on a desire to not want to understand) demonstrated in making such a comment.
Sweeping statements and tarring with the one brush is typical of this guy and his ilk I am sorry to say. If he and they took off the blinkers they would realise they would be welcomed and the rules/constitution etc that they quote on GAA aims they would then see mean nothing to GAA people (as they were created a centuary ago) only the sports matter to all  - so its themselves stopping themselves from joining.
[/quote]

Innocent GAA members were harassed, beatenup and indeed murdered simply because they belonged to GAA club - this thread demeans their efforts and in many cases their memory - I'm turning this thread around now -

The Unionist / protestant community should apologise for their behaviour to us - they make amends for their wrong doings of the past amd pay us compensation before we ever consider letting them near our gounds !

That's a bit pointless to be fair.  Any of those who murdered or harassed GAA members are hardly the people that are ever going to be interested in joining the GAA and are therefore unlikely to be those the GAA 'reach out' to.  Innocent unionists have nothing to apologise for.
[/quote]
there are innocents alright, but plenty who apart from purportrating the acts, assisting the acts etc, there were many silent and complicit by not speaking out and trying to stand up for the apartheid-esque and racist/almost genocical type behavour.
As a victim of this, It irritates me when people gloss over it.

I'd welcome unionists etc to the GAA games etc, but it must not be the case that folk try to tell me that it was all a bit of a misunderstanding and nohing was meant by i and only a few people are actually guilty of cusing the grief and hassle towards GAA folk. That wont wash. Will forget it, as long as pathetic excuses are not being dreamt up ec.

[Maguire01]

Kevin McGourty has weighed in on this one now as well in this wek's Gaelic Life.
He may make some valid points, however, as for one extract:

"Belive it or not, Jack Boothman - a Protestant - was elected GAA President in the mid '90s, and some of our clubs and stadiums are named after Protestants, like Roger Casements in Portglenone.  These examples show that we are already reaching out to the Unionist community."

Now whatever about his position on this debate, such statements surely undermine the credibility of his argument, no?  Surely he doesn't believe that these were efforts to reach out to the Unionist community? And surely he understands the difference between Protestant and Unionist? And between Southern Protestants and Nothern Protestants?

He also draws a parallel to the IFA and that a Catholic friend of his attends NI games in Windsor, but:

"Do you think that he will be expecting GSTQ not to be played because he may feel uncomfortable? Let's get real"

Well the fact is that many are shouting for GSTQ/UnionJack to be scrapped at Windsor for exactly those reasons! Maybe not his friend, but many others.

[orangeman]

Haven't been keeping up to date with this, but a few points...

I got tired picking quotes out at that point and that's just from one thread.

Interesting that not one of those quotes mention hating the GAA, in any way. Would it not have been easier to just say, no and save yourself the cutting and pasting?

Sammy, i have to say, your posts are generally fairly measured and balanced, even though a lot of people on here won't agree with you, but from reading the quotes picked out, your response is well off the mark - there is clearly hatred demonstrated, the word 'hate' doesn't have to be used to illustrate hatred.

There is hatred (for want of a better word) of many of the things that the GAA does, naming kids tournaments after mass murderers for example but that doesn't translate into hatred of the GAA. I'm sure there are lads that don't like the GAA but it would certainly be a lot less than the hatred on here (in this thread alone) for a million of your fellow Irishmen.

Post proof of this or retract it.

The GAA organise the Gerard and Martin Harte cup for Under 12's

so the GAA organise it do they
ohhhh kkkkkkayyy

and pray tell what aspects of mass murder did Gerard and Martin Harte purportrate ?

I must admit, I did not realise there was an All Ireland competition for u12's

To play devil's advocate here, many looking in from outside would say 'yes', the GAA do organise it.  It may be through a club, but does it have to be arranged exclusively from Croke Park to be 'organised by the GAA'?
Also, where was the mention of an AI competition for u12s?  That comment just undermines your defense and looks like toys out of the pram stuff.

I'm not suggesting that such clubs abandon such tributes to their GAA heroes, that's for them to decide.  At the same time, i can understand why it's any easy point for criticism - a soccer competition named after some loyalist would be a target for abuse on here, whether it was arranged by the IFA or a club within it's ranks.

I have a genuine question for Sammy and any other unionists on here: Is the issue with the naming of GAA venues/competitions after republicans limited to those involved in activities over the last 30/40 years?  i.e. is there a problem with the likes of Casement Park, or just with examples like the U12 competition mentioned above, related to republicans active during 'the troubles'?

Maybe Sammy G has been in the 'fatherland' too long; from the Belfast Telegraph (today, April 17th), and about Gaelic Games:

...Even up until a decade ago GAA coverage was largely confined to areas of the media where writers and broadcasters were preaching to the converted.

Today, in a pluralist society in which the GAA has given a lead on several fronts - the opening of Croke Park to other sports, a dynamic anti-drugs campaign, a concerted drive to provide the best facilities for members spanning all ages, creeds and classes - the Association, for all its human imperfections, enjoys a level of overall credibility that is the envy of many other organisations, sporting and otherwise.

And that's certainly something to write home about.

Yet we still don't see GAA anywhere near the back pages of the BT!

Innocent GAA members were harassed, beatenup and indeed murdered simply because they belonged to GAA club - this thread demeans their efforts and in many cases their memory - I'm turning this thread around now -

The Unionist / protestant community should apologise for their behaviour to us - they make amends for their wrong doings of the past amd pay us compensation before we ever consider letting them near our gounds !

That's a bit pointless to be fair.  Any of those who murdered or harassed GAA members are hardly the people that are ever going to be interested in joining the GAA and are therefore unlikely to be those the GAA 'reach out' to.  Innocent unionists have nothing to apologise for.

Is there such a breed ?


Of course they should apologise and compensate us for their support of the harassment, beatings and murders inflicted upon members of the GAA family.

[Maguire01]

That's a bit pointless to be fair.  Any of those who murdered or harassed GAA members are hardly the people that are ever going to be interested in joining the GAA and are therefore unlikely to be those the GAA 'reach out' to.  Innocent unionists have nothing to apologise for.

Is there such a breed ?


Of course they should apologise and compensate us for their support of the harassment, beatings and murders inflicted upon members of the GAA family.

Step forward in your true colours orangeman. It's now much easier to see the context of your argument.
You've shown yourself to be extremely naive, bigoted and sectarian.  Do you actually know any Protestants or Unionists?  Any friends who weren't brought up exactly the same as yourself?  Have you ever stepped outside of your own bubble?
Yes, you're a product of your environment - we all are to some extent.  But surely your world view can't be that blinkered(?)

Why should all protestants apologise for the actions of a minority?  Why should they compensate us for the actions of a minority?

[armaghniac]

Surely all unionists are fully supportive of the British occupation and colonisation of Ulster?

[orangeman]

Surely all unionists are fully supportive of the British occupation and colonisation of Ulster?

The "pro unionists" wouldn't agree with this ! 

[Maguire01]

Surely all unionists are fully supportive of the British occupation and colonisation of Ulster?

I'm sure they are.... and your point is???
I, and many others, aspire to a united Ireland.  It doesn't mean that all Nationalists support any means to that end.

Oh, and Armaghniac, here's me thinking only Loyalists referred to the 6 counties as Ulster!