GAA must 'reach out' to unionism

[orangeman]

Lads its not about allowing people to dictate to us, its about are their changes required to make it more attractive to a section of the population and if so are these changes we are prepared to make. I know this won't happen but I  want  to win over person in Ireland to the side of Gaelic Games, of course we have to retain our soul and not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Right Scalder - you tell us what changes you'd make to see if we think they'd work ! So let's hear them !

[scalder]

I'm not saying I have any of the answers, I said "if their were changes required" – I suppose instead of trying to second guess our unionist compatriots it would be best to do some research as to their attitudes and beliefs in relation to the GAA.

[orangeman]

I’m not saying I have any of the answers, I said “if their were changes required” – I suppose instead of trying to second guess our unionist compatriots it would be best to do some research as to their attitudes and beliefs in relation to the GAA.

Bollox to that ! 

[winsamsoon]

scalder i don't think anyone is against change but at what price does change come about? Sometimes if we change even the slightest thing the knock on effect can be massive. A good example would be the changes to rule 21 and 42 (separate arguments) . I agree that the GAA needs to reach out to all sections of our community but you cannot tamper with the foundations and morals of an organisation . You run the risk of offending the very loyal people that have kept the organisation going for so long. I don't see anything wrong with individuals groupings in society having separate cultures and identities. We can't all be the same, we would be like robots so there is no need for all of society to become one. There seems to be too many people trying to bring everyone together as one when it is quiet clear everyone is different. This seems to be a world wide thing, where everyone must live in peace and harmony. It is as natural for people not to get on with each other as it is for them too get on. Every individual should have a choice and the GAA is fully  open to all sections of the community. In life we can't please everyone so lets just get on with what we like and let the rest of them worry about their problems. If the other sections of society want to join us they are more than welcome but i really don't see it as a big problems for the GAA.

[passedit]

scalder i don't think anyone is against change but at what price does change come about? Sometimes if we change even the slightest thing the knock on effect can be massive. A good example would be the changes to rule 21 and 42 (separate arguments) . I agree that the GAA needs to reach out to all sections of our community but you cannot tamper with the foundations and morals of an organisation . You run the risk of offending the very loyal people that have kept the organisation going for so long. I don't see anything wrong with individuals groupings in society having separate cultures and identities. We can't all be the same, we would be like robots so there is no need for all of society to become one. There seems to be too many people trying to bring everyone together as one when it is quiet clear everyone is different. This seems to be a world wide thing, where everyone must live in peace and harmony. It is as natural for people not to get on with each other as it is for them too get on. Every individual should have a choice and the GAA is fully  open to all sections of the community. In life we can't please everyone so lets just get on with what we like and let the rest of them worry about their problems. If the other sections of society want to join us they are more than welcome but i really don't see it as a big problems for the GAA.

Very depressing reading this thread lads, a lot of 'not an inch' and don't want a prod about the place attitudes.

re the bit of winsam's post i've highlighted, as Gnevin and snatter have already stated the wording of the preamble was changed in 1971 under very different circumstances than pertain today so why not change it back?. A bit like Jack Lynch's stand idly by speech of around the same time it was only a bit of bluster to avoid actually doing anything.

[orangeman]

scalder i don't think anyone is against change but at what price does change come about? Sometimes if we change even the slightest thing the knock on effect can be massive. A good example would be the changes to rule 21 and 42 (separate arguments) . I agree that the GAA needs to reach out to all sections of our community but you cannot tamper with the foundations and morals of an organisation . You run the risk of offending the very loyal people that have kept the organisation going for so long. I don't see anything wrong with individuals groupings in society having separate cultures and identities. We can't all be the same, we would be like robots so there is no need for all of society to become one. There seems to be too many people trying to bring everyone together as one when it is quiet clear everyone is different. This seems to be a world wide thing, where everyone must live in peace and harmony. It is as natural for people not to get on with each other as it is for them too get on. Every individual should have a choice and the GAA is fully  open to all sections of the community. In life we can't please everyone so lets just get on with what we like and let the rest of them worry about their problems. If the other sections of society want to join us they are more than welcome but i really don't see it as a big problems for the GAA.

Very depressing reading this thread lads, a lot of 'not an inch' and don't want a prod about the place attitudes.

re the bit of winsam's post i've highlighted, as Gnevin and snatter have already stated the wording of the preamble was changed in 1971 under very different circumstances than pertain today so why not change it back?. A bit like Jack Lynch's stand idly by speech of around the same time it was only a bit of bluster to avoid actually doing anything.

Are you reading posts I'm not reading ? Where are you getting that from ?

[passedit]

I'd say you and me are reading this thread a bit differently all right Orangeman. I could do a sammyg type post with quotes the whole way down the page but if you can't see these yourself there's little point.

[Mentalman]

So what we basically seem to be coming down to is one of two opinions:

(i) Unionists have no interest in our sports either way, so lets not bother changing. More or less it's not broke, so let's not fix it.
(ii) Let's change to remove any perceived impediment to Unionists playing our games, and then it's up to them.

If those are the choices then I've got to go for (ii), I've got to believe in the possibility of change. I just don't see it as capitulation, when you deal with and eliminate the objections of your opponents, you are not only exposing the reality of their position, but you also strengthen your own. BTW there seems to be a good bit of interchanging between the words Unionist and Protestant in the discussion. This is a political issue, not a religious one - Protestants already feel free, and some do, play our sports, Unionists however don't feel the same.

[AZOffaly]

I feel we should do the right thing, and tidy up any anomalies, simply because it is the right thing to do, and to reinforce internally the fact that the GAA's aims are about promoting Irish culture, and Irish games. Lose the political stuff because it's not really relevant to the modern GAA.

If by doing that unionists happen to feel more welcome, well great. The more the merrier. I wouldn't be trying to make the association anti-Irish or anything, but if we go back to the original, and still the true, aims of the association, fostering the gaelic games, trying to foster the language and the music via Scór etc, and the unionist community then sees it as more welcoming to them, grand.

If they don't see it as that, or have an 'anti-Irish' hatred, well that's grand too. It's up to them. You can't make people like anything.

As I said, do it because it makes sense to do it for the GAA, and let the other stuff take care of itself.

Having thought about it a bit more, I'm actually against it. Feck it, lets insert the Proclamation into the constitution. I just realised that a pile of young Unionists could join and inflict more misery on the rest of us talking about how Ulster football is great!!!

[ardmhachaabu]

If unionism as a political force has such a problem with the GAA then no amount of changing anything will make a difference.

Let's face it, the only barrier to unionists playing GAA sports is in their own minds.

I notice other nationalities on the island are not nit-picking, they are just getting on with playing the games

[Jinxy]

I feel we should do the right thing, and tidy up any anomalies, simply because it is the right thing to do, and to reinforce internally the fact that the GAA's aims are about promoting Irish culture, and Irish games. Lose the political stuff because it's not really relevant to the modern GAA.

If by doing that unionists happen to feel more welcome, well great. The more the merrier. I wouldn't be trying to make the association anti-Irish or anything, but if we go back to the original, and still the true, aims of the association, fostering the gaelic games, trying to foster the language and the music via Scór etc, and the unionist community then sees it as more welcoming to them, grand.

If they don't see it as that, or have an 'anti-Irish' hatred, well that's grand too. It's up to them. You can't make people like anything.

As I said, do it because it makes sense to do it for the GAA, and let the other stuff take care of itself.

Having thought about it a bit more, I'm actually against it. Feck it, lets insert the Proclamation into the constitution. I just realised that a pile of young Unionists could join and inflict more misery on the rest of us talking about how Ulster football is great!!!

Exactly what I was thinking.  Lads with names like Norbert and Reginald banging on about the Tyrone minors in Ulster-Scottish-ese!

[Maguire01]

Indeed - we won't dilute our games or our association be depoliticising.

Some people here are obviously very conservative. The 'not an inch' reference made by 'passedit' doesn't have to be explicit - it can be read between the lines on a number of posts on this thread. If that's your position, fair enough - but if you believe in it, don't get offended when someone else points it out.

          Maguire i have been involved in the GAA all my life and i have never seen any incidents of sectarianism whatsoever. You talk about slatting all Unionists with the same brush. All organisations have a element of scumbags. This minority behaviour obviously rose to the fore in fermanagh from what i can gather from the media. This doesn't mean that the whole organisation is sectarian. Come on now lets get a grip.

I don't believe i said the whole organisation was sectarian - please provide my quote if i did.
It's obviously positive that you've never seen any sectarianism in the GAA, and also that you'd be welcomeing to any Protestants/Unionists willing to join your club.  At a guess, i'd imagine there aren't any in your club at the minute, so it's unlikely you'd have witnessed sectarianism.  All i was trying to say is that you can't guarantee that there would be no sectarianism in the GAA.  Either way, that's getting off the argument, but i felt i had to clarify what i had said previously.

[Gnevin]

scalder i don't think anyone is against change but at what price does change come about? Sometimes if we change even the slightest thing the knock on effect can be massive. A good example would be the changes to rule 21 and 42 (separate arguments) . I agree that the GAA needs to reach out to all sections of our community but you cannot tamper with the foundations and morals of an organisation . You run the risk of offending the very loyal people that have kept the organisation going for so long. I don't see anything wrong with individuals groupings in society having separate cultures and identities. We can't all be the same, we would be like robots so there is no need for all of society to become one. There seems to be too many people trying to bring everyone together as one when it is quiet clear everyone is different. This seems to be a world wide thing, where everyone must live in peace and harmony. It is as natural for people not to get on with each other as it is for them too get on. Every individual should have a choice and the GAA is fully  open to all sections of the community. In life we can't please everyone so lets just get on with what we like and let the rest of them worry about their problems. If the other sections of society want to join us they are more than welcome but i really don't see it as a big problems for the GAA.

Winsamsoon , you are very clearly anti change

[Gnevin]

If unionism as a political force has such a problem with the GAA then no amount of changing anything will make a difference.

Let's face it, the only barrier to unionists playing GAA sports is in their own minds.

I notice other nationalities on the island are not nit-picking, they are just getting on with playing the games

And of course ,your speaking as a member of the orange order and the GAA ,yes?

[Maguire01]

I notice other nationalities on the island are not nit-picking, they are just getting on with playing the games

Yes, because the political issues in question mean the exact same to them as they do to northern protestants..... oh wait.