GAA must 'reach out' to unionism

[Uladh]

I was surprised to see Bradley had an article in the GPA magazine with the indo on monday. He has been staunchly anti gpa. I suppose as someone intimated previously young journalists can be mor mercenary than most when they're trying to sell their wares. The GPA magazine wasvery good by the way.

[winsamsoon]

I beg to differ Gnevin. Is it just me or are we sitting back whilst our whole organisation is beginning to bend over backwards for everyone except the actual people that matter ie their own members. The GAA was established as we all know to promote national self determination and culture within our society. This was fully inclusive of all society and involved Unionism. It was never stated that Unionists were to be excluded from anything. I am well aware that the political situation has changed, I could also see why some sections of Unionism are highly interested in the GAA. But i also would have some Unionist friends that go regularly to GAA games and feel as much a part of the organisation as myself. Any issues or obtacles that Unionism have ( bearing in mind it ain't actually unionism that is raising this issue) they have created themselves. The GAA has always kept the same rules for the organisation and by nature is a conservative organistion. A change to the term national self determination would be an absolute farce asthe issue of National self determination is crucial to the GAA. If the GAA were to get into financial trouble in the morning it would be the members that would be ask to bail it out. These members should therefore always be at the centre of every major decision made within the GAA. I don't think this is happening at the moment, the fat cats are rulling undemocratically and it is just possible they would ammend the issue at hand and disguise it as pressure from the peace process.
          Unionism is a completely different ideology compared to Nationalism. Within it there exists different beliefs and traditions so it could be discribed as an umbrella movement. I don't expect to walk into anyones house and start telling them how to arrange their furniture. It is possible to live within our own boundaries, Unionists are as welcome as the next fella to play gaelic games and to become a member of the organistion. But they must respect the rules of the institution that has stood for many years. To be honest any unionists that are involved in Gaelic do respect these. It is the attention seekers within our organsition and those ignorant to the principles of the GAA that usually challenge them. To even suggest amendments to the GAA for this reason is an insult to the men that have given their lives for their culture and to presserve the identity that exists today.
         The naming of the clubs has risen to the top of the pile again i see. Gaelic clubs are predominantly named after people that were influential in Irish history. This is again a part of our culture and to suggest that we turn our backs on this is once again an insult to these men. Wolfe Tone ( a protestant) was very nationalsitic in his aims and actions, Michael Davitt and others were higly influential figures in the formation of the GAA and were very much so nationalistic. These people should have teams named after them, but to suggest that these names are to get one up on the enemy is a complete misinterpretation. They are what they are, names given in honour of Irish heroes that have been influential in the past . We need to unite as a organistion and make it clear that our values are not there to surpress anyone but to ensure what we have remains fore front to our families and society in general.

[Gnevin]

I beg to differ Gnevin. Is it just me or are we sitting back whilst our whole organisation is beginning to bend over backwards for everyone except the actual people that matter ie their own members. The GAA was established as we all know to promote national self determination and culture within our society. This was fully inclusive of all society and involved Unionism. It was never stated that Unionists were to be excluded from anything. I am well aware that the political situation has changed, I could also see why some sections of Unionism are highly interested in the GAA. But i also would have some Unionist friends that go regularly to GAA games and feel as much a part of the organisation as myself. Any issues or obtacles that Unionism have ( bearing in mind it ain't actually unionism that is raising this issue) they have created themselves. The GAA has always kept the same rules for the organisation and by nature is a conservative organistion. A change to the term national self determination would be an absolute farce asthe issue of National self determination is crucial to the GAA. If the GAA were to get into financial trouble in the morning it would be the members that would be ask to bail it out. These members should therefore always be at the centre of every major decision made within the GAA. I don't think this is happening at the moment, the fat cats are rulling undemocratically and it is just possible they would ammend the issue at hand and disguise it as pressure from the peace process.
           Unionism is a completely different ideology compared to Nationalism. Within it there exists different beliefs and traditions so it could be discribed as an umbrella movement. I don't expect to walk into anyones house and start telling them how to arrange their furniture. It is possible to live within our own boundaries, Unionists are as welcome as the next fella to play gaelic games and to become a member of the organistion. But they must respect the rules of the institution that has stood for many years. To be honest any unionists that are involved in Gaelic do respect these. It is the attention seekers within our organsition and those ignorant to the principles of the GAA that usually challenge them. To even suggest amendments to the GAA for this reason is an insult to the men that have given their lives for their culture and to presserve the identity that exists today.
          The naming of the clubs has risen to the top of the pile again i see. Gaelic clubs are predominantly named after people that were influential in Irish history. This is again a part of our culture and to suggest that we turn our backs on this is once again an insult to these men. Wolfe Tone ( a protestant) was very nationalsitic in his aims and actions, Michael Davitt and others were higly influential figures in the formation of the GAA and were very much so nationalistic. These people should have teams named after them, but to suggest that these names are to get one up on the enemy is a complete misinterpretation. They are what they are, names given in honour of Irish heroes that have been influential in the past . We need to unite as a organistion and make it clear that our values are not there to surpress anyone but to ensure what we have remains fore front to our families and society in general.

Original aim of the GAA , don't see any nationalist baggage their.

   1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes
   2. To open athletics to all social classes
   3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties

current aim
A National organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes.

See the difference

[snatter]

Original aim of the GAA , don't see any nationalist baggage their.
   1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes
   2. To open athletics to all social classes
   3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties

current aim
A National organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes.

See the difference

GNevin,

thanks for pointing that out.

Do any of you naysayers think that the GAA, or any GAA member became more Iriish, more Nationalist, or more Gaelic when the aims were changed as a knee jerk reaction to the troubles in 1971?

If the original wording was good enough for 90 years, and is seen as non divisive, why not revert to it?
Imho, it would be
   One less imaginary stick to beat us with.

   One more example of the GAA doing the right thing in contributing to a lessening of the divide in our society.

   One less excuse for bigots on the Unionist side who are resisting efforts by some in their community to allow gaelic games into NI's state schools.

A theme among a few here is to see gaelic games as belonging to nationalist only, as "our games", etc.
Why shouldn't Unionists be encouraged to see them as their games as well?

[T Fearon]

What Bradley doesn't seem to be able to grasp is the fact that most Unionists hate all things Irish or perceived to be Irish, including the language (look at their strident opposition to an Irish Language act for example), GAA, etc.

Therefore no amount of tinkering to the GAA's constitution will make a blind bit of difference to their attitude.

I know a fair few protestant/unionists (of the liberal variety) and they happily watch GAA games.

Let the status quo prevail. The GAA has already done more than enough to make itself more acceptable.

[Gnevin]

What Bradley doesn't seem to be able to grasp is the fact that most Unionists hate all things Irish or perceived to be Irish, including the language (look at their strident opposition to an Irish Language act for example), GAA, etc.

Therefore no amount of tinkering to the GAA's constitution will make a blind bit of difference to their attitude.

I know a fair few protestant/unionists (of the liberal variety) and they happily watch GAA games.

Let the status quo prevail. The GAA has already done more than enough to make itself more acceptable.

Are you lost Mr Fearon, just follow this link and you'll be back where you belong
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=5300.0 

[scalder]

Lads most of what Bradley says makes sense to me and I feel that the GAA should focus on Irish/Gaelic culture and leave the politics aside. We can't afford to ignore any section of society in Ireland. I'd have a fear that as we move towards a normalisation in the north that nationalists will start to play more Rugby and soccer at the expense of the GAA, while the GAA will not attract those of a Unionist perspective and so the organisation will contract. Maybe this will not happen, but being honest the GAA is too important to be burdened by political baggage.
Promote Gaelic culture, the language, the games etc but we can I think leave the politics aside.

[winsamsoon]

Original aim of the GAA , don't see any nationalist baggage their.
   1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes (which can include unionists)
   2. To open athletics to all social classes All inclusive of society
   3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties Currently done

current aim
A National organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes. ( I have no issues with this statement. If you look at Rugby Union which is endorsed by unionism it also recognises the 32 county aspect.See the difference

[/b]
For someone who said it wasn't worth discussing Gnevin you are taking a keen interest now   We could all go in and dig up technical terms and the actuall officiall speeches but then again we could just have an opinion on it. The GAA was based on nationalism and the promotion of nationals identity and culture. Obviously the wording changed over the years with the partition of Ireland and the other influential issues but the main goal still remains the same. To preserve national passtimes, status and culture. I fail to see how this infringes on the rights of Unionists. Unionists are quiet welcome into the GAA where they will experience no sectarianism and i will certainly never attempt to put anyone down. However they cannot expect to have an input into the running of an organisation which they  have no intention of being part of simply because it goes against the ideology of Unionism.  But like it or not the GAA is linked to the ideology of nationalism. So common ground between this and Unionism is going to be difficult to find. So in my eyes it is not a major issue because there is no massive demand for it to happen. Even if there was it shouldn't be changed because there is nothing wrong with the current setup regarding the issue at hand.

[snatter]

Lads most of what Bradley says makes sense to me and I feel that the GAA should focus on Irish/Gaelic culture and leave the politics aside. We can't afford to ignore any section of society in Ireland. I'd have a fear that as we move towards a normalisation in the north that nationalists will start to play more Rugby and soccer at the expense of the GAA, while the GAA will not attract those of a Unionist perspective and so the organisation will contract. Maybe this will not happen, but being honest the GAA is too important to be burdened by political baggage.
Promote Gaelic culture, the language, the games etc but we can I think leave the politics aside.

well said scalder.

Assuming peace holds, the reality is that we'll be increasingly in competition to get players.

Tony Fearon - you shouldn't inpterpret a miniscule token percentage number of unionists who currently attend/participate in gaelic games as anything other than a failure on the part of the GAA to market itself to Unionists.

Yes, a sizeable percentage of Unionists will always reject gaelic games becasue they are Irish.
But many will not.
Once convinced that the GAA is not a cold house, and that nothing in its rules could be construed as conflicting with their Unionist political viewpoint, they, or their children, might be more pre-disposed to taking an involvement.

[snatter]

Original aim of the GAA , don't see any nationalist baggage their.
   1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes (which can include unionists)
   2. To open athletics to all social classes All inclusive of society
   3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties Currently done

current aim
A National organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes. ( I have no issues with this statement. If you look at Rugby Union which is endorsed by unionism it also recognises the 32 county aspect.See the difference

[/b]
For someone who said it wasn't worth discussing Gnevin you are taking a keen interest now   We could all go in and dig up technical terms and the actuall officiall speeches but then again we could just have an opinion on it. The GAA was based on nationalism and the promotion of nationals identity and culture. Obviously the wording changed over the years with the partition of Ireland and the other influential issues but the main goal still remains the same. To preserve national passtimes, status and culture. I fail to see how this infringes on the rights of Unionists. Unionists are quiet welcome into the GAA where they will experience no sectarianism and i will certainly never attempt to put anyone down. However they cannot expect to have an input into the running of an organisation which they  have no intention of being part of simply because it goes against the ideology of Unionism.  But like it or not the GAA is linked to the ideology of nationalism. So common ground between this and Unionism is going to be difficult to find. So in my eyes it is not a major issue because there is no massive demand for it to happen. Even if there was it shouldn't be changed because there is nothing wrong with the current setup regarding the issue at hand.

So its more important to you that gaelic games are played by nationalists only?

To me, the survival and properity of games depends oon as many people as possible playing/supporting them.
I don't give a stuff if gaelic games' followers are nationalist/unionist/revolutionary communist, whatever.
Obviously you do.

Any other groups of people out there that you'd like to exclude?
Would you exclude the Alliance party's Ards representative, Kieran McCarthy for example.
The Alliance party are unionist, so under your rationale, he shouldn't be anywhere near galeic games.

[Bensars]

Assuming peace holds, the reality is that we'll be increasingly in competition to get players

with the greatest of respect, what a load of bollocks !

Local Soccer ( the Fermanagh and western ) is a more glorified pub league. Very poor standard.
Rugby  has only ever attracted a few, And if anything they should be trying to attract more nationalists



Many gaelic players have played these in the past and it has had little or no impact on our games. If you look at clubs around tyrone and armagh ( only highlighting these based on recent successes) on a saturday morning you could have 100+ kids from 6 to 12 all playing away.

Peace process is not the reason they are playing.

[snatter]

Assuming peace holds, the reality is that we'll be increasingly in competition to get players

with the greatest of respect, what a load of bollocks !

Local Soccer ( the Fermanagh and western ) is a more glorified pub league. Very poor standard.
Rugby  has only ever attracted a few, And if anything they should be trying to attract more nationalists



Many gaelic players have played these in the past and it has had little or no impact on our games. If you look at clubs around tyrone and armagh ( only highlighting these based on recent successes) on a saturday morning you could have 100+ kids from 6 to 12 all playing away.

Peace process is not the reason they are playing.

OK, now move the focus to our towns and cities, where there is more choice.
The GAA are failing miserably already.
How much worse will it become when the divides are broken down further.

As things stand, the numbers of Nationalists playing organised  rugby/soccer for the first time will dwarf the reverse flow of unionists playing gaelic games.

[orangeman]

How about unionism reaching out to the GAA?

An apology from Loyalists who were responsible for killing members of the Association for no other reason than they were members would be nice, for a start.

To be fair, i don't think anyone is looking to reach out to hardcore loyalists - rather those who would be more moderate and more open to the idea of playing gaelic games - take Darren Graham in Fermanagah, as an example.  
Also, such people (i.e. 'moderate unionists') don't have to apologise to those GAA families bereaved by loyalists, no more than 'moderate nationalists' would be expected to apologise for those killed, say in Omagh or Enniskillen. There's no logic in that argument.

Couldn't agree more - Mr. Graham is a fine example alright ! 

[scalder]

Lads with all due respect, complacency about soccer and rugby is dangerous. This side of the border they are getting more organised and I'm sure this will happen up north too.

[Bensars]

Im from a town and played both. First love was gaelic.

The option was always there. Never had an impact.



I get the point the your trying to make, however the continuing success of the GAA will not depend on the number of Unionists prepared to play Gaelic games.

The inner city has never been the stronghold of the GAA. probably never will, however there is life outside of  cities whereby the GAA is the fabric of the community.

Why all the crying about getting unionists involved?  What about those who in their thousands will be looking for Ulster final tickets or all ireland tickets.

what about getting them involved.

IMO there is far too much political correctness about.   Change all these rules at the slightest hint that someone may be offended ( who by the way , most likely will find something else to be offended by ) and it still wont make a blind bit of difference.


As i said earlier, an oppurtunist piece by Mr Bradley