O’Neill gives his backing for united Ireland team

[T Fearon]

A couple of points here. O'Neill gave a moving eulogy at Dougan's funeral last year, and not one IFA representative showed up at the funeral. Even after nearly 35 years the narrow minded bastards couldn't forgive him Of course he was never selected to by the IFA again due to his involvement in the organisation of this game.

Also, Alan Hunter, David Craig and Bryan Hamilton willingly participated in this game for the Irish team. None of these lads were from a nationalist background yet they willingly played. Along with the late Derek Dougan and George Best, this to me indicates a high interest in an All Ireland team from a sizeable section of unionists who unlike OWC, do not believe that they need a so called national football team to confirm their political identity or allegiances.

O'Neill and Jennings must become proactive in the promotion of one all Ireland side, and not just talk the talk. With their profiles in the game they have important roles to play in this regard

[nifan]

saffron sam - you reckon this game was being organised when dougan was dropped?
Thats idle speculation, but doogan hadnt scored in many previous games and the choice was made to move him on and try other players, younger players.
Dougan was 35 i think at the time.

Is it hard to believe this is possible?
The fact was at the time of the brazil game he had been dropped, completely, from the squad, after failing to score in 10 previous games. Thats the facts. The rest is speculation.

[Main Street]

Why did Dougan not play any of the five games prior to this game? He had not scored in a large number before that.

Is it impossible that the NI management had thought he was passed it and decided to move on - despite dougans last hurrah?
It certainly wouldnt be the first time that a player has not been brought back into a team in world football.

It is not impossible but it smells funny.
Dougan had a very good season in 1972 /73 for Wolves, they were a top 6 team and he played every game, didn't they also get to the UEFA cup final?
Yet he only gained 2 caps for NI in that season. Did NI have such a hot squad then? Dougan felt he was also shafted that season previous to the all Ireland game against Brazil.

[saffron sam2]

Speculation it is, but as Main Street says, a tad fishy also.

The time to jettison Dougan, if jettisoned he was, would have been at the end of the 1972 season.

This would allow the management to start a fresh World Cup qualifying campaign with a new striker.

As it was, Dougan was considered good enough for the first two games of the WC campaign, but was dropped after the Cyprus match in Feb '73. The next NI game was in late March '73. A game such as the Brazil match would take many months to organise. Possibly a coincidence, but are there such things?

In the remaining five matches involving NI that season, they scored a total of 2 8 goals. With three of those games in the 'Home' 'Internationals' would it have been unreasonable to allow Dougan his swansong in one or all of these three games.

Who took his place in the squad?

[nifan]

Ive never heard anyone before claim that the game was being organized in the period where dougan was dropped before.
It has simply mever been claimed in all the arguments i heard about it  - the fact that he was dropped was roundly ignored by those disagreeing.

A 34 year old striker who did not score in 10 matches was dropped and it is fishy? If a year later he hadnt organised that friendly (which i dont believe was being organized over two years) it wouldnt be even commented on.
Not one of the other players was dropped after this game either - could it be that the IFA where annoyed but where going to continue playing the team they thought best?

[Main Street]

Look Ni fan, the point is Dougan has claimed that in the season before the All Ireland game there was an agenda against him.
Therefore Dougan was dropped at a time when he claims he was playing good football for a top 6 team in English football.
Were NI flush with strikers then? who was picked ahead of him?
It is a possibility he was dropped, Dougan claims he was shafted.

'Derek Dougan's strike partnership with John Richards flourished during the 1972/73 season. They became a deadly duo, with Doog's headed flicks inevitably finding the fleet-footed Richards, whose aim was unerring. Between them, they totalled 53 goals in all competitions - Doog contributing 17. Incredibly, Wolves remained unbeaten for the 14 games in which he found the net. He also netted twice in three successive matches - but the highlight of a prolific year was undoubtedly a majestic fifth hat-trick for Wolves on March 3rd, at home to Manchester City. Dougan & Richards accounted for all the goals in a 5-1 win, as they shredded the opposition's defence to pieces. Such devastating form failed to secure any trophies though, as Wolves finished 5th, and lost in both Cup semi-finals. Dougan's international career ended this year with a final cap against Cyprus in March '73. Reward for a long, chequered career arrived 12 months later, as Derek picked up a League Cup winners' medal after Wolves defeated Man. City 2-1 (the photo above shows Doog celebrating after Wolves had clinched a place at Wembley, defeating Norwich 2-1 over two legs). For the fourth time, Dougan finished the season as Wolves' top scorer - his 19 goal haul included doubles versus Norwich and Arsenal, as he hit the target in five successive early season games. He also netted in the post-Wembley celebratory 3-1 win over Ipswich. The end of Doog's playing days came in 74/75. He made just six starting appearances',

[nifan]

He was old, and he was doing shag all for the international team up to this point - his last goal coming years before the Brazil game. Are you saying there was no chance he was dropped due to this?

As for his views - he was full of opinions, and unfortunately had a egocentric view of himself - when i met him i have to say he came across as quite pompous.

[Main Street]

He was old, and he was doing shag all for the international team up to this point - his last goal coming years before the Brazil game. Are you saying there was no chance he was dropped due to this?

As for his views - he was full of opinions, and unfortunately had a egocentric view of himself - when i met him i have to say he came across as quite pompous.

Do you not read replies ?
I wrote,   "It is a possibility he was dropped, Dougan claims he was shafted"
You have your opinions on his character and yours is a perception much favoured by people who tend to demean him. He might have been a lot of things but many fans have a more rounded picture of him and he was held in high enough esteem by his comrades.

[nifan]

Many may have, but i judge by his attitude in the press and in person.

If he was dropped becuase of this it would not have been the greatest surprise - but the facts seem to imply he was dropped well befroe the incident.

[saffron sam2]

So a player who has represented NI in three separate decades, who was (one of) the last members of the 1958 World Cup squad still representing NI, who was (until then) one of their most capped players is disregarded without so much as a thank you or good luck. 'Twould make you wonder alright.

nifan, you don't suit the SammyG-lite approach.

[Main Street]

If he was dropped becuase of this it would not have been the greatest surprise - but the facts seem to imply he was dropped well befroe the incident.

Which is the point I have made and Dougan has made. He was mysteriously dropped from the entire squad after the Cyprus game when he was playing some of the best football of his career.
And who took his place? You haven't answered that one. Despite Dougan a NI legend playing some of the best football of his career, in their next 2 qual. games  (after March '73)   NI gave caps instead to 2  other inside forwards
Dickson  a 4 cap wonder with Coleraine   and Lutton  a Wolves reserve  at the time.

Steamrolling through the IFA obstacles for the All Ireland team nailed his international career shut forever.

[saffron sam2]

He was old, and he was doing shag all for the international team up to this point - his last goal coming years before the Brazil game. Are you saying there was no chance he was dropped due to this?

How do you know? Which of the games did you attend? Did you read any reports of the games even? What is Sir David of Killyleagh's longest run without a goal for NI?

And who took his place? You haven't answered that one. Despite Dougan a NI legend playing some of the best football of his career, in their next 2 qual. games  (after March '73)   NI gave caps instead to 2  other inside forwards
Dickson  a 4 cap wonder with Coleraine   and Lutton  a Wolves reserve   at the time.

Therein is your answer. Terry Neill wrote just the initials DD on his squad list and the IFA person charged with informing the players thought that Neill was referring to up and coming Coleraine legend Dessie Dickson rather than Wolves has-been Derek Dougan. An easy mistake to make you will agree.

[Aerlik]

but doogan hadnt scored in many previous games and the choice was made to move him on and try other players, younger players.

Well if that was the case, why then were the gulpins masquerading as "international" soccer players for the six counties not all dropped during their noteworthy lean period of just a few short years ago?

It's a known fact around Kilrea that O'Neill wanted an IRELAND team.  Just think of the midfield: Giles, Brady, O'Neill, McIlroy.  Damn that would have been worth watching.

[Yer Ma]

O'Neill and Jennings must become proactive in the promotion of one all Ireland side, and not just talk the talk. With their profiles in the game they have important roles to play in this regard

I don't think you realise that they don't really give a shit - if asked about it they'll give their viewpoint, but it's no ones business to tell them to jump on a bandwagon that they're not bothered about.

If they had have been bothered they would have done this a while ago.

[SammyG]

Just think of the midfield: Giles, Brady, O'Neill, McIlroy.  Damn that would have been worth watching.

And a midfield of Platini, Tigana, O'Neill, McIlroy would have been worth watching as well and it would be just as likely to happen and make just as much sense (i.e. none at all)