Pre season training regimes

[Jinxy]

Any factor which influences the force generating capacity of a muscle will, by extension, influence the power generating capacity of a muscle.

Yes - but that's stating the obvious

Stop looking narrowly at the muscle - look at the whole body and the influencing factors.

It's not just simply increase size and all is better - it's a complex balance.

Here's a few other points to consider ...
- Once you increase size - you have to carry it
- Muscle needs energy to survive - energy costs rise
- Inter and intra coordination changes etc etc
- If you develop fibres they must be fast twitch
- The wrong fibre type training become a negative

People think size is important - Forget about hypertrophy and train for strenght and power

Be lighter, very strong and fast = powerful

Could you clarify what you mean by developing fibres? Do you mean changing type 2 oxidative fibres to type 2 glycolytic?
Just want to make sure we're not talking about hyperplasia.

[Zulu]

You won't change fiber type to any great degree when training for GAA, your fiber profile is what it is for the most part anyway. But you'll only really change fiber type if you sprint train only or if you distance run only, when training for GAA your not doing enough of either to effect real chnage's IMO.

[Jinxy]

I'd agree with you to be honest.
You're largely stuck with the hand you've been dealt.

[JMohan]

JM I'm finding it difficult to see where you're coming from, you suggest most of your info comes from listening to, talking to experts or reading books yet you seem to have a fairly good understanding of the science which leads me to believe you have or are studying in this area. However you also say some things which, with respect, lead me to suspect that you don't really have that in-depth understanding of these things that is needed (no offense). For example, those fitness coaches you spoke to during Christmas agreed there are 'many ways to Rome', yet to can't seem to accept that 6 weeks of aerobic work is a good method of improving early season fitness as part of an overall training program. You even incorrectly suggest that this will slow you down or that you may suffer from over use injuries and this is just plain wrong, the fact is any type of activity which raises your heart rate sufficiently high whether it is running, indoor soccer or tennis will benefit a footballer and certainly will do him no harm if done only in the early part of the season. You also use a rugby team as an example of a team which doesn't do 'distance' running, well rugby is a very different sport and they never did too much distance stuff in that sport. You are comparing a sport with a low aerobic requirement with a sport that has a fairly high aerobic requirement.

I also feel many of your opinions are more suited to the professional game, for example your view that hypertrophy can be skipped, I don't accept it can or in fact that it is, all rugby players for example are doing weights from a young age so they have undergone hypertrophy and therefore you may be able to focus on strength and power with them. However I think that it would be irresponsible for any coach to start a 23 year old GAA player with no weight lifting experience on a strength program without first developing a base.

I also can't understand how slow 400m runs with long rest periods in between reps can benefit any field athlete, though maybe i have misunderstood you on this one.

I'm getting tired of all the splitting of posts.
No offense taken I don't expect it to be easy to follow - or even accept.
To clarify - I think there are better ways than using distance running to prepare for GAA. Obvisouly if you want to use distance running go ahead.
The rugby example is just one example - and the problem with using examples is once one person says one thing someone else gives another example and it becomes a 'my daddy is bigger than your daddy' thing. But the point is that distance running is not used in pro sport.
Rather than simply say I'm 'plain wrong' - consider it and see if you can see any merit in what I'm saying and try and understand.
Talking about a 23 yo GAA player starting weights etc is taking small examples which we could argue about all day - and I'm afraid here doesn't give me enough space to explain in detail the approach - but it is possible to keep reps low, build strength and not need a base.
When I mean slow I mean approx 70%
Inter county vs club is very different of course - but the principles should be the same in general

[JMohan]

Any factor which influences the force generating capacity of a muscle will, by extension, influence the power generating capacity of a muscle.

Yes - but that's stating the obvious

Stop looking narrowly at the muscle - look at the whole body and the influencing factors.

It's not just simply increase size and all is better - it's a complex balance.

Here's a few other points to consider ...
- Once you increase size - you have to carry it
- Muscle needs energy to survive - energy costs rise
- Inter and intra coordination changes etc etc
- If you develop fibres they must be fast twitch
- The wrong fibre type training become a negative

People think size is important - Forget about hypertrophy and train for strenght and power

Be lighter, very strong and fast = powerful

Could you clarify what you mean by developing fibres? Do you mean changing type 2 oxidative fibres to type 2 glycolytic?
Just want to make sure we're not talking about hyperplasia.

I simply mean that you must train in a manner that preferentially recruits fast twitch fibres

[JMohan]

You won't change fiber type to any great degree when training for GAA, your fiber profile is what it is for the most part anyway. But you'll only really change fiber type if you sprint train only or if you distance run only, when training for GAA your not doing enough of either to effect real chnage's IMO.

To a large extent yes - but look at the proportion of training - overall
Is it more inclined to develop fast or slow twitch?

[JMohan]

I'd agree with you to be honest.
You're largely stuck with the hand you've been dealt.

Agreed - however like I said a few posts back
1. If you don't accept improvements can be made - why bother training at all? Lets just do genetic tests and see who is the best athlete?
2. You can't make a donkey into a race horse but you can sure make a donkey a lot faster donkey!

[JMohan]

Obvisouly we're starting to go round in circles a little here, but if you look at what I've said and then go look for the research to see if it's possible or ask people who are training successful teams I think it will come together for you.

If not you're welcome to pm me.

Have a good weekend guys and thanks for a great debate!

[Jinxy]

I'd agree with you to be honest.
You're largely stuck with the hand you've been dealt.

Agreed - however like I said a few posts back
1. If you don't accept improvements can be made - why bother training at all? Lets just do genetic tests and see who is the best athlete?
2. You can't make a donkey into a race horse but you can sure make a donkey a lot faster donkey!

My comment about being stuck with the hand you're dealt with was purely in relation to fibre type.
You are of course right that everyone can improve greatly with training.

[neilthemac]

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.htmll

any information you will EVER need about training - power, strength, endurance

broken down by muscle groups, different machines availablem nutrition, whatever

[Zulu]

JM you might be gone for the weekend so you might not see this post but with respect, I feel some of your post are a bit condescending (though I'm sure this isn't what you intend). Your coming across a bit like a guy looking at a bunch of cave men  banging rocks together to get a spark while your lighting fags with a zippo. I think you are suggesting some of us are a bit close minded and should maybe open up to new research well I'm going to take your advice and do a bit of research over the weekend might I suggest you do the same because in my experience there is generally research that contradicts your beliefs regardless of what they are. Have a good weekend.

[gaagaa]

in 1992 the Mayo team were made push cars around car parks as part of their training.
We were the laughing stock of the nation at the time!

what makes you think anything has changed?

[3000 miles away]

hows it goin lads,

been readin this thread closely the last wshile and its a very interesting one, few posters seem to know there stuff, not trying to change the subject but could anyone give me a few ideas on re-strenghtening the muscles weakened by tearing the medial ligament of the knee, any sort of rehab would be appreciated.

thanks

[Bitta-Banter]

3000 i think you should see a physio.It would be impossible for anyone to give you a rehab program without seeing you and testing your knee out and talking to you about it.

[screenexile]

Ah something I know a bit about. I think if all has healed you will need general knee strengthening. The session I do at the minute incorporates the following:

One legged squats 3 sets of 12 reps at a slightly difficult weight. This mainly for the quads, glutes an hamstring.

Dead lift around 60-70kg 3 sets of 10. Again for the quads, glutes and hamstring.

One legged Calf raises off a step, 3 sets of as many as you can until you fail.

Bridging lying flat on the ground with 2 legs bent on the swiss ball, then lift your ass and push the ball out and back in usually 3 sets of 12 to work the hamstrings.

Pelvic dip. Stand on a step with your affected leg keeping the back straight. Now drop your other leg and pull it back up to cebtre yourself again. 3 sets to fail. This works on your adductors.

I wouldn't do all these sets in a row though as it can be touh at the start I would work through each exercise once and then repeat them all again.

Depending on how far into your rehab you are you might look into mor impact work suh as siamese squats, jumping lunges and some hopping exercises. If you want some of those I can give you a few of those as well.

As BB has said though you will need to see a physio to get a more personalised programme for yourself to get back properly. Knee's are a hoor of a thing and i you're not completely right when yo ucom back you can do serious damage!